Archive: 46 posts

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This is so poignant I'm thinking about embedding it in my sig. It should also be referenced any time the question arises: "I try really hard at creating levels, but they're just not that good! What am I doing wrong?" I've probably seen this question asked in 100 different variations in my short time here. I found the answer. The quote is from Ira Glass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Glass), who some of you may know as the host of This American Life (http://www.thislife.org/) from Chicago Public Media. It's an excellent show and I highly recommend if you're really bored one night, to light a candle and get something tasty to drink, and curl up on the couch and listen to one of his shows. It'll probably blow your mind away in one way or another. Anyways, without any further ado, the answer: http://artistmotherteacher.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Picture-5.png So, in the words of John Hodgman, "You're welcome." Source: http://artistmotherteacher.com/index.php/2011/05/nobody-tells-this-to-beginners/ (http://artistmotherteacher.com/index.php/2011/05/nobody-tells-this-to-beginners/) Edit: arbiekko was kind enough to locate the actual audio recording with accompanying quotation over on vimeo: http://vimeo.com/24715531 Thanks!

2011-05-21 03:24:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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Awesome quote! /cries of happiness Keep supporting these LBP2 newbies to make them be what they want to be!

2011-05-21 03:49:00 Author: fatman689 Posts: 54

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Yeah this is pretty much true. i've only just lately started getting good at LBP far as level creating. and what? i been at it for over 2 years with no levels up yet? (besides my dead LBP2 beta level) and I'm still horribly slow at creating even if I'm not bad at it now. and it's always dishearting when you see people who have had LBP only for under 3 months and are almost as good or better then you. it's just takes time and not everyone grows fast. just got to hang in there~ *mew

2011-05-21 03:52:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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Excellent advice. I couldn't agree more.

2011-05-21 06:19:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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Yeah I think we all can do more to encourage beginners more, Its must be hard now more then ever to get started. I've been lucky a lot and that help to encourage me to keep making I think a lot are really to hard on beginners, I never boo levels unless it something like a H4H but then wouldn't go on it, but if i see something in the level that a good idea but maybe they didn't know make it/couldn't make it how they wanted Ill post a comment like "keep up the good work" I think a lot of the more experience players forget how they where when starting

2011-05-21 07:36:00 Author: jump_button Posts: 1014

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Interesting thoughts, but when I started I didn't care if my stuff was good or not, just if I had fun making it. (For the record it was crap )

2011-05-21 07:50:00 Author: Radishlord Posts: 706

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Luckily, my first levels were masterpieces. Seriously though, I've learned a lot about the creative process from LBP. And I expect I'll continue to learn knew things as long as I play the game.

2011-05-21 08:36:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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Great post, and certainly "link" worthy in anyone's Sig. Fortunately, I learned this really early on in life as a kid who was an aspiring artist/model builder/sculptor/movie maker/makeup effects artist/monster maker/musician/puppeteer/animator wanna'be. To be honest, it always blows my mind a little bit when I see someone new come into anything creative and question why it's not easy and that they can't be awesome straight out of the gate. I think, "Shouldn't it be obvious to this person why this is difficult to be good at? If it wasn't... wouldn't everyone be doing it?" I've created a ton of artistic pieces in my lifetime so far on this planet... some good, some not so good, and some that to this day I still think are really awesome. Coming into LBP a few years ago, I knew nothing about the tools, how they worked, or how best to use them. Not once was I overly frustrated that I didn't know how to best achieve my desired results. I knew that I was not great at it yet because I hadn't put in the time it would take to learn the tools and how best to use them. It's only now, several years into playing with this game that I fully understand this amazing toolset we've been given and how to make what I think is awesomesauce with it (with the exception of logic, it still hates me). Dedication, hard work, patience, and a willingess to experiment and make mistakes... these are the tools each of us must bring to the game if it's going to yield us any decent results at all. You have to be happy with "It looks okay I guess", before you can reach "I am a really good creator!".

2011-05-21 08:51:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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That's an excellent sentiment from Glass, and I applaud it. There is a somewhat darker flipside, though. The quickest way to say it is "not everyone gets to be an astronaut." We live in a (western) culture that has this sort of prize-ribbons-for-everyone-mentality, when the very simple fact of the matter is that talent is very unevenly, and unfairly distributed. That's just the way it is. This doesn't mean stop trying; quite the opposite. And many people who aren't terribly talented do pretty okay at their chosen skill/vocation/etc. But no matter how much hard work we put in, we're not all going to be Yo-Yo Ma or Heston Blumenthal or Dame Helen Mirren. That's just the way life is. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't get this, and they think that because they can't be The Best, therefore they are the worst. All-or-nothing is a terrible way to live.

2011-05-21 11:37:00 Author: roux- Posts: 379

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Very true, thats how Ive proggressed.

2011-05-21 12:45:00 Author: craigmond Posts: 2426

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I think I am stuck in that phase, well, I like the levels i am making. Its just hard to get others to like it. I did get alot of good comments in my first level and hearts from tallented and well known people from LBPC. Its pusheing me to finish another level. Its weard to call it work or something that you have to do. You dont have to do it, I know. I guess its just another take on creating a level, and it does take time.

2011-05-21 13:45:00 Author: Unknown User

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Yeah I think we all can do more to encourage beginners more, Its must be hard now more then ever to get started. I've been lucky a lot and that help to encourage me to keep making I think a lot of the more experience players forget how they where when starting Ah, those were the days, eh? When the network used to crash every few hours, and the only levels you could see were flimsy rocket cars. My own rocket car level got a hilarious amount of plays considering how bad it was, probably because in the beginning, most of everyone was the same. I never did really get much better at making unique levels, so I prefered to mess around with machinery and things. It must be quite daunting for those who've only just started, and see all these fabulous MM picks that take months of work and practise to achieve.

2011-05-21 14:29:00 Author: Unknown User

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I would like to thank you for sharing that quote. It's spot on in terms of accuracy. In the beginning you never feel your work will improve, because it's not where you want it atm. You need to try, if you don't try then what was the point of starting?

2011-05-21 15:43:00 Author: Maxi Posts: 1176

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So true. However, this doesn't apply to everyone. I started LBP with bad taste, seeing my dark matter-sponge levels worthy to publish. In my case, my taste grew along with my coming skill. The taste grew faster, and has reached its limit- my skills are still improving.

2011-05-21 17:00:00 Author: JspOt Posts: 3607

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Kudos for this post Total agreement I would note that the negative comments hurt worse than the positive ones help I am light years away from acceptable, and having one foot in the grave doesn't help My wife says I have one foot in the grave, the other on a banana peel and my third foot in my mouth Anyways....yeh, we need to uplift more and try to point out what needs improvement without simply saying "You suck" I continue developing levels that entertain my 9 yr old, and constantly look at marvelous creations like Shane_danger's and troll_sb's and think, "I'll never be that good" Yet after reading this post, I almost feel the inspiration giving me a few days of youthfulness Kudos for this posting!

2011-05-21 17:13:00 Author: Unknown User

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Describes me exactly. My levels were awful, when all of a sudden, click! They turned good (at least by my standards ). Actually, that point was around when I joined here and the Logic Pack came out, come to think of it.

2011-05-21 20:48:00 Author: kirbyman62 Posts: 1893

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I remember when o first started playing lbp, I though bombs falling on you with no finish but only like 8 bombs was a good idea, over time I learnt that my levels were terrible, but I am now fairly good at creating, but nouthing is ever published because I give up thanks anyways, this really helps

2011-05-21 22:36:00 Author: Squidge99 Posts: 203

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I think everyone should try this: Build an object you tried to build a long time ago and then place them next to each other. See the difference

2011-05-21 22:49:00 Author: Willman4 Posts: 170

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Anyways, without any further ado, the answer... Isn't that just a somewhat more verbose variant on the expression "practice makes perfect"? Now if only someone could tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall.

2011-05-22 00:13:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp164/CylonNL/clapping.gif

2011-05-22 00:26:00 Author: Silver39 Posts: 1703

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Speak the truth soul brother! can I get an AMEN!? no? okay then.

2011-05-22 02:10:00 Author: wolverine_2008 Posts: 304

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This sure is the truth. I'm still relatively young and i'm coming up to a time in my life where my choices and decisions could make some impact on my life. It all depends on how I act towards it. These words are inspiring. The bottom line is don't ever give up, keep doing what you love to do. An example I like to look at is the musician Richard D. James, otherwise known as Aphex Twin. He has, and always will be making music...all the time...everyday. Some of his stuff may not be that good, but never stopping meant that eventually, something beautiful is produced. This man really is my major inspiration in life, not just musically either. I listen to his music and interpret it to what's happened to me. I can look back and laugh, look ahead and think, or relate and express....It's kinda hard to explain. My experience is unique to me, but if anyone out there is interested by my inspiration, have a quick listen. #1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iiK4MgIPtI) #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5dcEXpViiI) #3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoIOF-tsp0s) #4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBFXJw7n-fU&feature=related) Am I getting a little deep here? Sorry, I had quite an interesting day today.....life changing....

2011-05-22 02:37:00 Author: Mr_T-Shirt Posts: 1477

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this is probably off topic but i been noticing that people only look at the big, well known creators and us beginners never get a little fame because what people only expect is big and super awesome levels ( everybody does) but no one look a the biginners that probably has an awesome level no 1 seen

2011-05-22 03:08:00 Author: Khriz134 Posts: 38

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I draw sometimes and it's taken me a long time to get any better. You just have to keep practicing. 2006: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/d7507644.jpg 2010: http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/bf271afd.jpg

2011-05-22 08:22:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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To me it's just a big thing to get your mind around all of the many features in the game and what they do. It's taken me awhile to get used to everything and being a graphic designer I am capeable of making designs. When it comes to LBP my mind just becomes blank though, I can think of things but then I start to think of how to make them and I wouldn't have a clue. When I play peoples levels who are actually brilliant at making them, I soon realise that I still need a lot of practise to get up to that standard of work. It's like when people design their own enemies, to me it looks like they've somehow designed them out of the game, instead of using materials and sticking them together. I totally understand scmh0's find though, practise does make perfect. You just need to keep at it to realise your potential.

2011-05-22 16:44:00 Author: dbibby88 Posts: 378

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This quote is so true, when i started out i had some truely horrible levels, but i learned and evolved over time and never gave up, nor should others. I've seen to many good creators who have because they couldn't see beyond the crater, and expected to much in the beginning and didn't learn anything new, the other thing to know is never to get into a rut, try new things and different things, and always always be yourself and be original, and do levels that you can put yourself into and put a piece of your soul within your work. Also create for yourself first and others second. ok i'll stop blathering now...

2011-05-23 12:38:00 Author: calyst_aayla Posts: 217

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True, true, oh the horror from the early creations in LBP *shudders*

2011-05-23 14:06:00 Author: moonwire Posts: 1627

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I hate my levels so much that I locked them out of existence from the rest of the world. You'd have to play with me in order to see them now. But I plan on making a good level sooner or later.

2011-05-24 00:36:00 Author: Unknown User

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To add to that quote, do what YOU want to do. Who cares as long as you're ultimately enjoying yourself in the end, even if it does have exploding sharks and zombies.

2011-05-24 00:47:00 Author: gevurah22 Posts: 1476

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this should be stickyed in a section, probibly the help section who agrees with me

2011-05-24 02:15:00 Author: Unknown User

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Thank you very much, I'm a kind of just starting myself lol

2011-05-24 08:10:00 Author: Unknown User

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Thanks for the quote and how appropriate it fits all us LBP creators. I remember my first levels and it gives me the willies just thinking about those near impossible jumps i expected everyone to clear, and wondered why people where tagging it hard lol It may take time to prefect our level making skills (us mortals) but i wonder how long it took the likes of Poms, Big Guns and Lockstitch? 30mins? I guess in life these creators are the exception to this quote, cause i dont think they are capable of making bad levels the way most of us started out lol. Thanks again, im gona check this guy out.

2011-05-24 22:19:00 Author: RtooDee2 Posts: 175

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You'd probably be surprised. I remember Jackofcourse republished his very first creation, it had umh... room for improvement. It would be cool if more people showed their humble origins like that. Bottom line is: everyone has to learn.

2011-05-26 15:40:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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It may take time to prefect our level making skills (us mortals) but i wonder how long it took the likes of Poms, Big Guns and Lockstitch? 30mins? Im guessing around 2-3 years for each of them. Making a good level is hard work for anyone. These guys just seemed to have gotten it all figured out a little quicker than you or Myself. I think my first level used the weddings template. Nuff' said about my early creating skills. Now, Ive found my own style of visuals, and I still struggle with coming up with gameplay and figuring out logic. I guess it just goes to show that we all have room for improvement, no matter where we are in terms of creating knowledge. Even the amazing creators improve with every level they make, after all, thats how the human mind works.

2011-05-26 17:05:00 Author: grayspence Posts: 1990

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Just a great inspiration, applies to LBP level making, and everything: http://vimeo.com/24715531 Apologies if this doesn't belong here! Mods?

2011-09-08 14:34:00 Author: Unknown User

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I'll just tack it on the end of the thread I made. You have good taste, it seems.

2011-09-08 14:53:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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Ah, right on! Thank you! I should have known this quote would already be popular! Can I even recommend the video be added to your original post? For others who come along.

2011-09-08 16:42:00 Author: Unknown User

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Sure, I'll add it in.

2011-09-08 19:04:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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and NEVER h4h

2011-09-08 20:30:00 Author: danger sackboy Posts: 177

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And that's why, my fellow creators, peer reviews are golden and plays mean nothing.

2011-09-15 09:52:00 Author: Antikris Posts: 1340

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When people say LBP2 makes creating stuff easy, they don't mean creating a good level is easy. Creating stuff is easy. You know, those little things you can make directly in a certain moment. Like when you want to show your friends the power of Create, and you make a very basic car in 2 minutes, or a rocket plane That's the easy part. And in my LBP1 times (when I really didn't care much for making levels and just messed around with random experiments) I thought creating levels was as easy as making a few obstacles and objects and "stitching" them together to create the progression. Of course I was wrong, and I realized that once I started creating a level in LBP2. It takes much more than summoning a few blocks of materials, tying sponge with strings and putting magic mouths here and there. It takes dedication, planning, trial and error, practice and a good knowlede of the tiny tricks that make creating in LBP an exact science. Also lots of testing, sound effects, decoration, stickers, all those aspects have to be gotten right or it'll feel like something is missing. And for that, hou have to explore all the aspects of create. It's shocking how when you're not in create and all these ideas about levels you could make get into your head, and you think "I could make this!" but then the sight of a blank level confuses you so much you want to quit and just keep messsing around with random stuff. In those moments when you don't know where to even begin, you can't let the sense of confusion overwhelm or throw you off. That's what I learned after I've started 2 levels and didn't put more than 1 hour into them. Now I'm actually halfway through my real first level

2011-09-15 21:52:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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Another thing you never hear people talk about is the fact that, at some point in your level, you will end up redesigning some logic. Sometimes you have things worked out perfectly the way you want, then you keep working. At some point you realize that this grand system isn't tying in together like it should. You'll fight it at first and try to adapt your new ideas to fit the old system. Eventually, you will come to realize that you just need to go ahead and redo the logic on something. It could be something small like the way an emitted object triggers, or something larger like how to redesign the buffering for your binary storage device because it is not working properly with the newly implemented scoring changes (my problem). You have to do it though.

2011-09-18 09:52:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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One thing I've learned the hard way is how to playtest. I fell into the trap of "knowing how my level plays", so that's how I would test it. And, of course, it would work fine, until I publish it and I get "It did this" or "this broke". I learned (and in some cases still learning) that not only do you have to test your level as it's played, but you also have to try to do things you're not supposed to do. I figured out that my wife is the perfect playtester. She has found more glitches in my levels, simply because she's not as good at games, and therefore plays it different than me. And one other thing...if you're not totally sick of playing your level when you publish it, you haven't tested it enough!

2011-09-18 13:39:00 Author: Brannayen Posts: 438

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I'm glad this thread was bumped--thanks for creating it schm0. It is seldom that anyone ventures into an unknown realm all-knowing. And we tend to take for granted that everyone will eventually decipher all of the "unwritten" rules, especially those in life, through trial and error. Sadly, however, most people set themselves up for failure at the onset, and never fully engage the struggle to be the best they can be. On a personal note...my wife Lady_Luck__777 and I taught Martial Arts to both young and old for many years. We saw several students come and go at an alarming rate. But it didn't take us very long to realize the most important things we needed to be teaching these students was self-confidence, self-esteem and self-worth. These are all critical building blocks on which to build and establish lifelong successes. Mentors have a responsibility to enlighten their students, because failure alone is not an acceptable excuse for giving up. If they are given these tools at the beginning of their journey, they are more likely to succeed, because their newfound reference says that they can. That is empowerment.

2011-09-21 23:15:00 Author: RickRock_777 Posts: 1567

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If I were able to tell something to my past self... "Don't make this in the center of the level, you idiot... you'll eventually hit the ceiling and you will have to select this whole thing and drag it down while facing console melting lag!"

2011-09-22 03:14:00 Author: SnipySev Posts: 2452

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Creating is an art. It's something that will take years to get the hang of, even with daily practice. In LBP, creating for most will be difficult. Yeah, that's hard but for those who have gotten the hang of it, most will have an interest in art and have an artistic background to support them. For example, if you pick up LBP and begin creating with no artistic history, your most likely going to find it hard to use colours well and get a overall design layout. For someone who has done art for many years, understands perspective and contrast, they will find it much easier, they will go into create knowing a rough layout and practice jumping a few steps. It is just practice. It's not something you'll learn over night and many don't realise that. Another thing many people say doesn't matter, is age. Well, that just isn't true. They say experience is the more important thing, which yes, is true, but with age comes experience? Yes. You learn as you grow older, you learn through the years and gain experience at every step. You learn new things, you experiment with new ideas, and yes, eventually you will impress yourself, but until then, all you can do is practice and continue. Think of it like this: If you quit, what do you gain? You've wasted time learning only to have given up and it shows your weak. If you continue, there is no fail, you never quit and you continue to drive after the thing you want. You will get it, but it's effort that is required. The thing that keeps me going is this: Inspiration leads to motivation. Motivation leads to Creativity. Creativity leads to art. Think about it, and i really hope to see some new decent levels out there!

2011-09-24 10:14:00 Author: Unknown User

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