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Sony rolls out Welcome Back Program (was: PlayStation Store Returns)

Archive: 1455 posts

Sony can't bring down PSN for good. The PS3 relies too heavily on it. Modern gaming depends on online services; there's just no way around it. I found myself thinking back to when I first got into video games, and amused myself by trying to explain to my inner early-80's child why that's the case.

2011-04-28 05:28:00

Author:
BlackWolfe

Posts: 299

Anyway, I can't find a way to blame Sony.
That's a robbery.
Everyone is supposing that PSN waswn't too safe, but we all know that criminals can hack/stole whenever they want.
REAL STORY: I know a guy that had the most advanced security systems in his summer estate, well, the robbers took a wall down with a big truck and stole everything, even the curtains and the radiators.
No one can stop criminals to do what they want.
And it's about time to stop considering hackers as an outpost of freedom, not all of them are, and most of them are quite naive.
There are reasons why hackery is considered a crime, and most of them are because it hurts other people lives.
OK Sony can't let you have your OS on PS3, can't have you run pirated games, the price of games is too high...ok, that's just selfishness, because behind all of that there are costs and the work of lots of people, but many refuse to understand...and gaming is a hobby, it's not something of primary interest and necessary to survive.

2011-04-28 06:15:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

2011-04-28 06:41:00

Author:
Unknown User

Here's how I figure it all went down:

PSN security holes were being discussed openly on internet sites sometime before or after Anonymous ran it's DoS attack on Sony. The current attack may have been in preparation beforehand, or perhaps the Anonymous incident rekindled interest among other groups into attacking PSN. At any rate, you can't argue that Anonymous made the perfect scapegoat, since any intrusions would have sent all eyes looking at Anonymous while the real criminals covered their tracks.

I don't believe the attack was driven by anarchy or the desire to embarass Sony or cause them damage. It was carried out by people that were motivated to obtain private data and credit card numbers for millions of users, more than likely with the intent to sell it afterwards. This wasn't about user freedoms or GeoHot or any other petty crusade - it was about cyber crime on a very big scale. Anyone making light of the incident should do well to remember that you were just victims of a major crime. I hope they find the ******** and nail them to the wall over this.

2011-04-28 06:41:00

Author:
Thegide

Posts: 1465

I was just wondering if there are any clauses in the terms of service agreement when agreeing to use the PSN; which states that Sony isn't liable if the customers private information is compromised or taken and used to conduct criminal activities?

There have been 2 class action lawsuits already filed

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/116/1164392p1.html

http://edelsonmcguire.com/cases/

2011-04-28 07:23:00

Author:
hungryhippo

Posts: 76

I know this is long but here is the policy. I couldn't get the link to work properly.

Privacy Policy
Last Revised: April, 2011
Sony Computer Entertainment America LLC ("SCEA") is committed to respecting the privacy rights of all visitors to our websites. This privacy policy is intended to provide you with information on how we collect, use and store the information that you provide to us through our websites so that you can make appropriate choices for sharing information with us. If you have any questions, complaints or comments regarding our online or offline privacy policies, please contact SCEA's Consumer Services Hotline at 1-800-345-7669.
This Privacy Statement and the certification seal located to your right confirms that SCEA is a valid licensee and participating member in the Entertainment Software Rating Board's Privacy Online Program: ESRB Privacy Online. To protect your privacy to the maximum extent possible, we have undertaken this privacy initiative and our websites have been reviewed and certified by ESRB Privacy Online to meet established online information collection and use practices. As part of the privacy program, we are subject to frequent audits of our sites and other enforcement and accountability mechanisms administered independently by ESRB.

ESRB Privacy Online is a third-party seal provider whose mission is to protect consumers' online privacy and make the Internet a secure, reliable and private place to share information and conduct business. ESRB Privacy Online promotes and enforces established principles and guidelines for fair information collection practices that include requirements of full disclosure, notice and informed consent.
Whenever you visit a website that displays the ESRB Privacy Online certification seal, you can expect to be notified of:
What personal information may be collected and by what means
Who, if anyone, is collecting your personal information
How this information may be used, including who, if anyone, it might be shared with
The consequences, if any, resulting from your refusal to provide personal information
How you can access and, if necessary, change the personal information a company maintains
How a company ensures data security, quality and integrity
Where and how to ask questions or file complaints

THIS POLICY APPLIES TO:
This policy applies to the websites us.playstation.com and naughtydog.com. In addition, we own several other domain names that point to us.playstation.com. From time to time, we may add new websites not listed above, and will provide a link to this policy or the applicable privacy policy. Finally, we collect information via dynamic in-game advertising that is served to some online PlayStation?3 games. By use of our websites and games that have dynamic in-game advertising, you signify your assent to SCEA's privacy policy. If you do not agree to this policy, please do not use our websites or games with dynamic in-game advertising.

THIS POLICY DOES NOT APPLY TO:
PlayStation?Network
In parts of North America and South America, Sony Network Entertainment America Inc. (“SNEA”

operates Sony Online Services, a network of online games, movies, music, other media and content and communication services. PlayStation Network (“PSN”

is one of these Sony Online Services. With a Sony Online Services or PSN account, users can purchase goods and services from SNEA through Sony Online Services and may have the opportunity to participate in various network community activities. Users can register for and log into a PSN account via us.playstation.com. Collection and use of your information by Sony Online Services is governed by the SNEA Privacy Policy, which can be found here:
http://www.qriocity.com/us/en/legal-privacy.
Links
SCEA may provide links to the websites of our promotional partners and licensed software publishers, our affiliates or other entities that we own or control. This privacy policy does not apply to third-party websites and treatment of any personal information you provide on those sites is subject to the applicable third party’s individual privacy policy.

WHAT WE COLLECT:
Collection of Personal Information through our Websites
We do not require that website visitors reveal any personally identifying information in order to gain general access to our websites. However, visitors who do not wish to, or are not allowed by law to share personally identifying information, may not be able to access certain areas of our websites, participate in certain activities, or make a purchase from the PlayStation?Shop. Although personally identifying information may be required to participate in certain promotions or features offered through our websites or to make a purchase from the PlayStation?Shop, participants provide this information on a voluntary basis only. Collection of personal information required to access certain website services may include the collection of date of birth, name, mailing address, email address or credit card information.
We collect personally identifying information in connection with the following:
Questions or comments sent through our websites to Consumer Services
Repair of, replacement of or service on system hardware
Subscription to a non-PSN marketing program
"Send-to-a-Friend" emails
Purchases made from the PlayStation Shop
Some of our website activities require that the user log in using a PlayStation?Network (“PSN”

account; for information regarding SNEA’s collection of information in association with a PSN account, please see their Privacy Policy
http://www.qriocity.com/us/en/legal-privacy. On our websites, PlayStation Network log in information is being authenticated by SNEA, not SCEA.
SCEA may require a PSN account in connection with:
Participation in online contests, sweepstakes or other promotions
Inclusion in our email newsletter program
Participation on our message boards
Access to special sections of official game websites
Passive Information Collection
SCEA may collect information such as our website visitors’ IP address, IP address-related information, system Media Access Control (“MAC”

address, network configuration information, network device information, browser plug-in types and versions, operating system, and platform. We also may collect information about your download activity, browser activity, forum postings and session information.
Dynamic advertisement serving technology enables advertisements to be temporarily loaded or cached to a PSN account holder’s PS3 system for display only in games that incorporate this technology. If a PSN account holder plays a game that utilizes this feature, SCEA will log information about his or her system and game play to ensure that advertisements are being appropriately served to him or her and to track information about the advertisements displayed during his or her gaming session. Logged data may include: Online ID, system IP address, system MAC address, in-game advertisement location, the length of time an advertisement was visible, relative size of advertisements, the angle of view and other information related to each advertisement visible during the gaming session.
“Cookies” are bits of electronic information that a website can transfer to a consumer's hard drive to keep records of his or her visit at the website. We may use cookies to improve consumers’ experiences when visiting our websites. We may use cookies to anonymously track interest in, and collect aggregate information on, our websites.
“Log files” are files that log actions that have occurred on a website. We may use log files to gather statistics about consumers' browsing habits and to assess overall website activity, including how many "hits" a particular web page is getting. These entries are generated anonymously, and enable us to track interest in specific promotions, troubleshoot technical concerns, and provide consumers with content that may be of interest to them. We also use the log file entries for our internal marketing and demographic studies, so we can constantly improve the online services we provide to consumers. Log files are used internally only, and are not associated with any particular user, computer, or browser.
Our websites use a variety of technical methods for tracking purposes, including “Web beacons”. Web beacons are small pieces of data that are embedded in images on the pages of websites. We also use these technical methods to analyze the traffic patterns on our websites, such as the frequency with which consumers visit various parts of our websites. These technical methods may involve the transmission of information either directly to us or to another party authorized by us to collect information on our behalf. We also use these technical methods in HTML emails that we send our guests to determine whether our consumers have opened those emails or clicked on links in those emails. The information from use of these technical methods may be collected in a form that is personally identifiable.
Information from PlayStation?Network
SNEA shares its PSN account holders’ information with us so that we may provide you with marketing and community services.
HOW WE USE YOUR INFORMATION
Personally identifying information that we collect for a particular promotional purpose through one of our websites or to make a purchase from the PlayStation Shop is saved and used only for that purpose, unless the participant chooses to opt-in to one of our marketing programs. Visitors to our websites may be given the opportunity to "opt-in" to two different programs. The first option is to receive marketing content from SCEA. The second is to have personal information shared with SCEA’s third party partners so that they may send you marketing materials.
Consumers who voluntarily provide personally identifying information via our website for purposes of receiving marketing materials or who opt-in to receiving marketing materials when they register a Network Adaptor (Ethernet/Modem)(for PlayStation?2) or PlayStation?2 with integrated network and line connectors for online gaming through the Online Start-Up Disc, become members of our marketing program.
By logging in as a PSN account holder on our websites, consumers consent to having information regarding their activities added to their customer profile, whether information regarding those activities comes from SCEA internal sources, Sony-related entities or affiliated sources. We may give PSN account holders the opportunity to provide information about themselves and will from time to time conduct surveys or questionnaires for members to provide feedback and additional information. This information allows us to provide those PSN account holders with information about our products that best suits their interests and to customize their experience.
Data that we have collected about a PSN account holder via dynamic in-game advertising may be used to provide him or her with future advertisements that we believe will be of particular interest.
Email addresses collected from consumers during the use of the E-Cards or "Send-to-a-Friend" email feature on our websites are not retained by us, and are only used to send a one-time email notification on a consumer’s behalf.
SCEA may use personally identifying information for marketing and demographic studies. These studies help us improve our websites, products and services to better meet our users’ needs.
SCEA’s consumer services department maintains information obtained from consumers who contact or submit an online complaint so that we may assist these customers with current or future service issues. SCEA’s consumer services department may collect additional information such as credit card, personal check information, if a consumer contacts consumer services to request repair of, exchange of, or service on, a PlayStation? system. Consumer Services uses this information only for payment and payment verification purposes. SCEA’s consumer services department may direct consumers to the consumer services departments of other companies with whom SCEA has arranged to provide consumer service, so that the consumer receives appropriate assistance.
We may use personally identifying information and records for defense of a lawsuit, investigation or other action if such personally identifying information, records or profiles are relevant to the lawsuit, investigation or action.
WHO WE SHARE WITH:
We may share the personally identifying information of our website users with our affiliates in the Sony group family of companies and other third parties who assist us with fulfilling your requests, clear and verify transactions, deliver and administer products, content or services, manage and enhance customer data, store and maintain our database records, provide customer service, detect fraud or illegal activities, conduct customer research and surveys, develop new products and services and sell products and services to you.
SCEA may also share personally identifying information with law enforcement or similar organizations, in connection with a criminal investigation, investigation or prevention of fraud or criminal activities, infringement of intellectual property rights or other activity that is suspected to be illegal or may expose our users or SCEA to legal liability.
We may share non-personally identifying information and behavioral data from our studies with our affiliates and other third parties.
Data logged via PS3 dynamic in-game advertising or some portion of it will be shared with third party companies that operate the advertisement serving technology, and these companies may share aggregated data (meaning data that includes data about a PSN account holder’s gaming session but is not specific to him or her) with advertisers and game publishers.
We do not control our affiliates’ or third parties’ use of your information after we share it, but we use reasonable efforts to obtain our affiliates’ and third parties’ agreement to protect the confidentiality, security, and integrity of any personal information we share with them or that we permit them to collect directly. If consumers do not want their personal information made available to others in these ways, they should not provide their personal information to us.
California Privacy Rights
Beginning on January 1, 2005, California Civil Code section 1798.83 permits SCEA customers who are California residents to request certain information regarding SCEA’s disclosure within the immediately preceding calendar year of that California resident’s personal information to third parties for their direct marketing purposes. To make such a request, contact our consumer services department through the following link: http://us.playstation.com/corporate/contactus or via telephone at 1-800-345-7669. If you would like to change your current account preferences, go to the account management section of your Sony Online Services account.
Policies for Children
SCEA does not knowingly collect personally identifying information from children under 13 years of age via our websites.
Data from Sony Online Services accounts is transferred from SNEA to SCEA for community administration and, depending on your child’s age, marketing purposes.
PlayStation Website Message Boards
Our PlayStation website message boards are a place where users can go to freely share their thoughts and ideas about the PlayStation brand. A PSN account is required to contribute to these message boards. We prohibit message board participants from disclosing their own personally identifying information other than their own Online IDs. We ask our users to respect the privacy of others. Disclosure of phone numbers, addresses, age or other personally identifying information that may violate someone else's privacy is prohibited. Encouraging or asking users to disclose publicly their personally identifying information is also prohibited.
Business Contacts
Through our job page at http://us.playstation.com/corporate/about/careers, SCEA allows job seekers to inquire about jobs and submit personally identifying information in connection with applying for employment. If a job seeker creates a job profile, he or she will be asked to provide an email address and create a password. He or she can use that email address and password to access his or her account, review the information in his or her profile, edit or delete his or her profile at any time.

We treat personally identifying information submitted to us for business purposes differently from information we receive in a non-business capacity. We may share resumes or potential developer contact information submitted to us, for example, with other Sony companies or third parties, depending on the nature of the inquiry.
Accuracy & Security
We take reasonable measures to protect the confidentiality, security, and integrity of the personal information collected from our website visitors. Personal information is stored in secure operating environments that are not available to the public and that are only accessible to authorized employees. We also have security measures in place to protect the loss, misuse, and alteration of the information under our control. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as perfect security. As a result, although we strive to protect personally identifying information, we cannot ensure or warrant the security of any information transmitted to us through or in connection with our websites, that we store on our systems or that is stored on our service providers' systems.
Governing Law
SCEA operates in parts of North and South America but this site is intended for consumers in the United States. When we process personal data and information and personally identifying information in the United States, we follow United States data protection and privacy regulations, which may not offer the same level of protection as in other parts of the world, such as the European Union. If we are made aware that a consumer’s country of residence is outside the United States, that consumer will be directed to the appropriate Sony company.
Transfer of Your Information in the Event of Sale or Acquisition
In the event that SCEA sells or transfers its business or its business is acquired, our website visitors’ stored personally identifying information may be transferred to the purchasing or acquiring entity. Please be aware that accepting this privacy policy means that you also consent to the possible transfer of your personally identifying information outside your country of residence.
Retention Policy
We will retain personally identifying information about you for the period necessary to fulfill the purposes outlined in this policy unless a longer retention period is required by law or regulations.
Changes to Our Privacy Policy
We reserve the right to make changes to this privacy policy at any time. If we make a material change to this privacy policy, we will notify you by posting notice of the change on www.us.playstation.com or on our other websites. We will post the changes in the privacy policy and, if necessary, give you additional choices regarding changes. Please check this privacy policy from time to time to ensure that you are aware of these changes. Your continued use of our websites or other SCEA online portals subject to this privacy policy will signify your acceptance of privacy policy changes.
Contact Us
For further information on our privacy policy, or for questions on information that we may have collected from you, please contact us by either of the following methods and we will be happy to review, update, or change your record status as appropriate:
Sony Computer Entertainment America LLC
Consumer Services Department
P.O. Box 5888
San Mateo, California, 94402-0888
United States of America
On the web: http://us.playstation.com/corporate/contactus
By Phone: 1-800-345-7669
ESRB
SCEA is a licensee of the ESRB's Privacy Online Program. If you believe that we have not responded to your inquiry or your inquiry has not been satisfactorily addressed, please contact ESRB at http://www.esrb.org/privacy/contact.jsp
ESRB
Attn.: Privacy Online Program
317 Madison Avenue, 22nd Floor
New York, NY 10017
privacy@esrb.org

2011-04-28 08:29:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

I know this is long but here is the policy. I couldn't get the link to work properly.

Privacy Policy
Last Revised: April, 2011
...

I can't be bothered reading. can you explain in a short paragraph

2011-04-28 08:34:00

Author:
Onii55

Posts: 153

I can't be bothered reading. can you explain in a short paragraph

Sorry but that's why I posted this so if anyone had questions about the policy it can be found in here. There is way too much to explain here. I would if I could but it's just depends what your looking for, this cover many topics. It's mainly to scan through and if you have a certain question. I'm sure someone will point out some topics of discussion among Sony's jumbled privacy policy.

2011-04-28 08:41:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

All I know is that there are lots of class action lawsuits popping up, so there must be a case...I have a feeling that the smart ones of the 70+ Million users are going to walk away with a nice chunk of a settlement...The thing is that sony has admitted to it so they are now accountable for the damages...

I know that having to cancel credit cards, file a police report, launch fraud alerts and monitor all accounts with risk to being suseptable to jailtime from criminal use of your identity are damages...

2011-04-28 09:00:00

Author:
hungryhippo

Posts: 76

Maybe instead of having to give your bank details to them, they could give you downloadable content for free? I mean, you already paid for the bloody game. Why do they feel the need to squeeze every last penny out of you just so you can have a fuller gaming experience?
The whole online gaming thing is just wildly overrated and an excuse to scam cash out of people, it's plain hucksterism. So this is no big loss.
Yeah I already mentioned this point.
I come from an era when games were perfect and complete out of the box, and the reason I hate Microsoft is because they have brought this DLCs/patch business into the console World.
This system is wrong IMHO but we have dived head first into it even with our beloved LBP, and it's too late to go back.
Still, everybody should remember and learn the lesson that wherever the money runs, nothing is safe: banks, insurances, stakes...
And holy crap, how much easier and safer it's to steal bank accounts than enter a bank all guns blazing

Hackery is the crime of the future people and as always, we, the people, always serve our bums on a silver plate.

2011-04-28 09:30:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

Here's how I figure it all went down:

It was carried out by people that were motivated to obtain private data and credit card numbers for millions of users, more than likely with the intent to sell it afterwards

IIRC from SONY or someone else I was told that they shut down the PSN because the hackers who broke in started PIRATING stuff in the PSN store...they weren't looking for our information...they were just looking for free ****.

but while they're in there who's to say the didn't take a peak at out credit info? thats why SONY shut down the PSN.

all in all to me it doesn't matter...hackers will always hack and it's stupid to think anyone can stop them...and it was stupid for SONY to think they could scare other hackers by suing one and that was their downfall.

tbh I don't care how this ends up....because SONY lost me a long time ago....maybe Mm should consider making LBP2-3 an inexclusive game to open the game up to the community? would be a nice thought and with PC modding it would make LBP even more creative...but thats just wishful thinking

another wishful thought would be SEGA taking advantage of this situation to release a Dreamcast 2

but yeah I'm starting to ramble so let me shut up now :/

2011-04-28 09:36:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy

Posts: 3365

LOL and cries at the naivity of lots of people around.
No wonder the World goes crap if people can't discern victims from criminals, what's a crime and what's not.
Sony has to keep safe your data, like banks has to keep your money safe.
But eventually Sony, banks, everyone in the World is eligible to FAIL.
If robbers steal in a bank the bank gives you back your money, but they don't give you 20 extra bucks, not even 5 bucks.
If a burglar enters your house and steals stuff, he won't give back your stuff when police arrest him, nor will pay anything, he will just go to jail.
Wake up, the World is not pink and flowers, if Sony manages to prove that they have done the best to protect our datas, no one of us will have anything.
And you may not like it, but that's right.
If it wouldn't have been a great scam FBI wouldn't have gone into it.

Sorry for the repetitive rants but people should be mature and realistic about some stuff.
I'm the first that likes to say idiocies but there's time and time to do it.

2011-04-28 10:01:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

PSN and Qriocity Terms of Service and User Agreement (http://au.playstation.com/legal/detail/item238014/PSN-and-Qriocity-Terms-of-Service-and-User-Agreement/)

1. SONY ONLINE NETWORK ACCOUNT REGISTRATION AND CHILDREN

If you share account details with someone who uses your account in breach of these Conditions or we believe that your account has been compromised, your account and/or access to Sony Online Network may be suspended or terminated. We are not liable for any unauthorised use or sharing of your Sony Online Network account.

11. MAINTENANCE AND UPGRADES

From time to time, we may want to provide you with new Services to ensure that Sony Online Network or your PS3, Portable Device or other Sony Systems are functioning properly in accordance with our guidelines.

Data and content may also be lost during maintenance or repair of your equipment. You must archive your personal photo, music and video content regularly to prevent such loss of data. You hereby authorise us to provide such Services and agree that, to the extent permitted by applicable law, we are not liable for any loss of data, content, function or utility.

13. TERMINATION/CANCELLATION

...we believe that your account has been compromised, we may take all actions to protect our interests as we believe are reasonable in the circumstances, including terminating or suspending your account and/or disabling access from your Sony System to all or any part of Sony Online Network. This may include disabling access to services and online game features provided by us or third parties, removing Services or amending Services, implementing upgrades or devices intended to discontinue unauthorised use, or such other steps as are reasonably necessary to protect ourselves, our affiliates, third parties or other users, and to prevent the unauthorised use or exploitation of Sony Online Network. Unless otherwise required by applicable law, we will not refund the cost of any purchased Services, or redeem any unused Sony Online Network wallet funds, on termination or suspension of your account or disabling of your Sony System for these reasons. However, we reserve the right (but have no obligation) to cancel your subscriptions with immediate effect, in which case we would not deduct further payments. If your account is terminated or suspended under these circumstances and you want to ensure your subscriptions are not renewed, please contact customer services.

We reserve the right to temporarily or permanently discontinue all or part of the Sony Online Network and any and all Services available through Sony Online Network at any time, including for service maintenance and upgrades. If the whole of the Sony Online Network is permanently discontinued, Master Account holders will be able to obtain a refund on request for unused wallet funds and unused portions of subscriptions. Subject to applicable law, we reserve the right to cancel your account if it has not been used for 18 months.

You may cancel your account by contacting us (see About Us section for details). Unless otherwise expressly provided by applicable law, you will not be entitled to a refund of unused wallet funds upon cancellation.

16. WARRANTY DISCLAIMER AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

Other than as set out in these Conditions, we give no warranty about the quality, functionality, availability, completeness, accuracy or performance of Sony Online Network or any Services available via Sony Online Network. We do not guarantee Sony Online Network will always be available or error free and we assume no liability for your inability to purchase or use any Services.

We exclude all liability for loss of data or unauthorised access to your data, Sony Online Network account or Sony Online Network wallet and for damage caused to your software or hardware as a result of using or accessing Sony Online Network.

If we are liable to you for failure to deliver Services, our liability is limited either to re-providing the relevant Service or (at our option) refunding the amount you paid for the Service to your Sony Online Network wallet. Our liability in any other circumstances is limited to ?25 (or equivalent in local currency) or, if higher, the amount of unused funds in your Sony Online Network wallet

Version 4.9 (March 2011)

Interesting.

2011-04-28 10:05:00

Author:
otm shank

Posts: 15

It was the first 10 times it was posted, now that's been posted every 20 mins...not so much...

2011-04-28 10:59:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

Updated the first post with some new info, most notably Sony's assurances that data integrity has not been compromised, so you will not lose any information associated with your PSN account (wallet funds, trophies, etc.)

Published LBP content is hosted on different server, and there's no indication that server was affected.

It was the first 10 times it was posted, now that's been posted every 20 mins...not so much...

Indeed. There's no need to continue posting the ToS. It's the usual mantra, basically saying that Sony disclaim all responsibility, but there's no guarantee that a clickwrap license (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickwrap) such as this will actually stand up in court, particularly when it comes to financial data (such as credit card information) which is more strictly regulated. As WP says...

It should be noted however that even though courts have ruled some clickwrap licenses to be enforceable contracts, it does not follow that every term of every clickwrap license is enforceable. Clickwrap licenses must still meet the criteria for enforceability of a unilateral form contract.
...along with some examples of previous court cases concerning such licenses.

Besides, regardless of the legality, this is very much a PR exercise now, and flatly denying all responsibility over this incident is likely to be more damaging to Sony in the long term.

2011-04-28 12:44:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

Published LBP content is hosted on different server, and there's no indication that server was affected.

In all the panic people seem to have forgotten that they can check their content on http://lbp.me/

2011-04-28 12:51:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

I just got the e-mail that the hackers have my credit card....

2011-04-28 13:10:00

Author:
Cactii

Posts: 426

THIS POLICY DOES NOT APPLY TO:
PlayStation?Network

I used the "search thread" function for "Terms of Service" and came up dry.

But yeah....

Register.com v. Verio (Register.com v. Verio)

The court rejected Verio's arguments regarding the timing of the statement. It stated that although the terms may not have been enforceable on the first query, Verio would have been aware of the terms before making all subsequent queries and the terms were therefore enforceable.

Verio was made aware of the terms with each query, albeit it at the end of each one.

The court also gave little weight to the Ticketmaster case because that case only involved a preliminary injunction. The court went even further, stating that it did not agree with the Ticketmaster outcome.

The court argued that a check box was not necessary because the Restatement of Contracts says that even silence can be considered assent to a contract as long as the user knows about the terms, has an opportunity to refuse the service, and still took the benefit of the service.

I think Sony ask for you to agree with every update don't they? But indeed there is no "guarantee" about anything, that's what makes it so interesting, for me at least.

2011-04-28 13:14:00

Author:
otm shank

Posts: 15

I just got the e-mail that the hackers have my credit card....

what do you mean? the hackers sent you an email? :S

2011-04-28 13:17:00

Author:
Onii55

Posts: 153

In all the panic people seem to have forgotten that they can check their content on http://lbp.me/

To make sure they still haven't gotten any plays? I'm confused what one would be "checking."

2011-04-28 14:12:00

Author:
schm0

Posts: 1239

I got an e-mail from Kyle Colonel, about a big sale! So legit!
Anyone else get spam e-mails since PSN went down? Or any from Kyle Colonel?

2011-04-28 14:14:00

Author:
Testudini

Posts: 3262

I always have, from when I decided to give my email to my utterly stupid father.
He gets viruses like candies.
So, I don't know if it's PSN related.
Even if hackers have the mails and stuff, they have to put 77 millions of datas in a database to use it, and it's not a thing so quickly doable.
Then you should scrap the bulls data...
I mean, even if Sony was late, people had a bit of time to protect their stuff.
In all of that, media covering is making a lot of mess, like always, with false facts, big catastrophic titles and the such.

Interesting...
http://gamingbolt.com/anonymous-psn-attack-is-a-crime-to-make-money
Nice article
http://bitmob.com/articles/psn-a-plea-for-reason

2011-04-28 14:23:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

So... after reading that recent article in the OP, it says that they'll require you to change your password after the PSN is back up, which means...

I might be able to get my old account back!!

(Now before you go off on me over this reaction... I really don't think I will, but hey, it's nice to be optimistic about things.)

2011-04-28 14:53:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack

Posts: 5757

To make sure they still haven't gotten any plays? I'm confused what one would be "checking."

That their levels are still there which has been asked by multiple people.

2011-04-28 15:29:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

That their levels are still there which has been asked by multiple people.

They hacked the PSN, not the content servers for LBP.

2011-04-28 15:39:00

Author:
schm0

Posts: 1239

My reaction when I heard about what happened http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/ANNHIROanhero/159_jounouchi_and_co_computer_freakout.jpg

I'm glad I only used PSN Cards

And most of the stuff I downloaded on my account is demos. Got most of the good stuff from a friends PSN

2011-04-28 15:45:00

Author:
jeperty

Posts: 486

Ok, I here it is from a group who call themselves 'Anonymous' they have not liked sony for a while now and they are also friends with the person who discovered how to jailbreak PS3s. They must of got annoyed about the patch that disabled the jailbreak, which could be a short term trigger to the hack.

2011-04-28 15:58:00

Author:
sackruler905

Posts: 103

They hacked the PSN, not the content servers for LBP.

Yes I know but like I said others have been asking.

2011-04-28 16:02:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

The only way that Sony should be liable is if money was actually stolen from a user and can be proven. Of course, their is the law about how long they have to inform customers, so regardless of what path Sony took, they were in trouble. The thing is, by making sure that credit information was in-fact at risk, they spent too long and, therefore, are liable. I think it's dumb, but that's the world.

2011-04-28 16:15:00

Author:
Fading-Dream

Posts: 164

As part of the work I do, I am involved with on-line security and data protection. From my point of view, the fact that data held online is potentially un-encrypted is mind-boggling.

It's fairly common practice not to bother reversibly-encrypting most things, except when it's passing through third-party systems. If your server is breached, the intruder should easily be able to locate the decryption key, so you don't win a whole lot. Plus for databases, it would kinda screw up indexing if everything were encrypted. However...

The makers of this forum for instance probably use a php-based one-way encryption process based around md5() or sha().

For passwords, yes, since there's really no need for them to know what your password actually is, as long as they can verify it, so a one-way hash is sufficient in this case, although with rainbow tables, there's arguably no such thing.

Some systems (like HTTP Digest Auth) use a password as a shared secret, so you need a plaintext copy for that to work (which is why no-one really uses it), but there's really no need for such systems when you can fairly trivially negotiate a shared secret using public-key encryption, so there's really no excuse not to hash passwords.

It's actually a little unclear as to whether they actually got the passwords, or just the hashes, but given that most people don't generally bother with particularly strong passwords, they could probably crack many of them with a dictionary attack anyway.

2011-04-28 16:44:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

(ABOVE COMMENT) Oh Snap!

2011-04-28 16:50:00

Author:
craigmond

Posts: 2426

2011-04-28 17:26:00

Author:
Unknown User

heres a article saying what george hotz thinkhttp://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/55631-george-hotz-comments-on-the-psn-debacle

2011-04-28 17:43:00

Author:
danger sackboy

Posts: 177

It's actually a little unclear as to whether they actually got the passwords, or just the hashes, but given that most people don't generally bother with particularly strong passwords, they could probably crack many of them with a dictionary attack anyway.

The two statements do sound a little bit like they are saying that the passwords weren't hashed, but as you say, it's vague and could go either way. I know that if I had 70,000,000 users and someone had their hashes, I'd expect that there were a hell of actual passwords out there, so advising people who share their passwords with other accounts to change them is absolutely the correct thing to do.

Which of course leads onto the thing that annoys me most about people saying that Sony haven't looked after their personal data well enough. Firstly, there's no evidence for it at this time - the fact that they got cracked is not proof that "Due to rapid development policies, it is suggested that much of the infrastructure is not as security-safe as it should be". That is just something some guy made up! It could be true, but we have no evidence for that.

More importantly, most people, in all manner of ways, place themselves in vulnerable positions with regards to their personal and financial data every single day, for the sake of convenience. Auto login on your PS3? Email or social network feeds to your smartphone? A central email account to which all of your online shopping accounts are tied? Weak passwords? Shared passwords between accounts? Storing of credit card info on website servers when you don't actually need to? Signing up to online services from companies that you don't know that much about? Sending emails with no encryption and assuming no one will see them? We do things every single day that compromise our personal data and hand it over to pretty much anyone who asks on a whim because we trust that they will look after it for us. They have a website after all - it's not like they give those out to just anyone. Oh, wait...

But that is the world we live in... I doubt many people will take this minor catastrophe to reflect upon how poorly they look after themselves and how much danger they place themselves in when they are online. I'm absolutely sure it's fine to assume that Sony had the only crackable system on the interwebs and all the other sites that have our data are 100% secure and trustworthy. Of course they are.

2011-04-28 17:45:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

Sony has been losing a lot of rep points because of this fiasco. Still, they lost most of mine with the removal of Other OS and PS2 BC. Instead of trying to eliminate piracy, maybe they should make their products actually worth buying? I know a few pirates who will actually buy something if it's good enough. It's kind of like a trial, except there are no limits on it. Do I condone piracy? No comment...

They need to start treating their customers like customers and not walking money bags. If you go to most services and businesses, you are their top priority. Sony, however, refuses to listen to anything anyone says. What's worse is they are removing things that I paid for. Say I buy a five room house from a neighbor who owns a property across the street. A year after, they remove a room because I could potentially spy on them. Now, I can't get to my kitchen, but at least I still have four rooms, right? It's a ridiculously far-fetched analogy, but that's essentially what they are doing.

I can't express enough how aggravating their control is. They don't own my PS3. They shouldn't have the right to disable things. Granted, I bought a slim model so I knew there was no BC, but I should still get my other OS options, shouldn't I? Even so, they disabled it on EVERYONE'S machines. I'm glad they got hacked and they know it is because they removed features and ticked people off. It sends a message that they are not above everyone. I'm not happy that information was potentially stolen, but Sony needs to be taken down a notch. It's the same principle of presidents only getting two terms in office, max. Too much power for too long leads to corruption.

EDIT: Not sure I agree with myself... I am not glad they were hacked... But they think they can take things away. I'm so confused!!!! Also found out that slim never had other OS. But my rage still stands (sort of) because it was still taken away from others...

2011-04-28 18:02:00

Author:
Fading-Dream

Posts: 164

Also found out that slim never had other OS.

if your old PS3 phat got damaged and you sent it to SONY for repairs...they'd remove the OtherOS themselves...or they'd keep the phat and give you a refurbished slim and give you a BS excuse for why you can't get your phat back.

the more you know *twingle sounds*

2011-04-28 18:54:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy

Posts: 3365

I guess I don't see why removing the other OS is such a big deal. If you want to play with another OS like Linux etc.. why would you want to use it on a console instead of a real computer?

..then again, I always look at consoles as more a smart appliance than a real computer system.

2011-04-28 19:28:00

Author:
jwwphotos

Posts: 11383

meh. it's not like you got anything worthwhile off of the other os thing. I installed on my original, and it was actually pretty underpowered. I mean, when my cheap acer laptop can run rings around something with that much power, you can't really say that it was doing much in the first place. I did away with the other os on it gladly after the 'wow i can do this!' factor wore off. That was several updates before it got abolished tho, so i may be missing something.

I guess I don't see why removing the other OS is such a big deal. If you want to play with another OS like Linux etc.. why would you want to use it on a console instead of a real computer?

..then again, I always look at consoles as more a smart appliance than a real computer system.

^this

2011-04-28 19:57:00

Author:
Memodrix

Posts: 879

2011-04-28 20:04:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy

Posts: 3365

I too agree that this downtime is doing good things for us. It encourages creative and contructive use of our time, rather than constantly being sucked in to a zombie-like state of feeling some obligation to play online. This parallels with the famous quote of Socrates, "The unexamined life is not worth living." Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing online and communicating with others as much as the majority, but having some forced downtime to really think about how we're spending our gaming time is very good. It's nice to simply go back to pre-online playing habits and really "examine" what else there is to do besides playing online.

This is true but then again I end up getting stuck into to my other consoles and games. Can't win. But I've definitely been doing more with my time lately. As for the other OS it never really appealed to me but I still have a love hate relationship with my PS3, even more so that PSN is down.

2011-04-28 20:04:00

Author:
LittleBigDes

Posts: 920

which they lied and said it was to make the slim cheaper...but if thats true answer me this...why discontinue the ps3 phat? :/

It made the fat cheaper too, there was a few years between the end of PS2 BC support and the end of fats.

2011-04-28 20:08:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

to some otherOS has no point...to others it was a convenience...regardless it may have not been much....but it was a feature nonetheless that they took away while forcing people to either update...or no PSN....and like i said if your ps3 messed up and you sent it in to SONY...they'd remove the OtherOS without your consent Software resets, or returning to customers refurbished units are pretty standard fare with things like consoles.

also the other issue is removal of PS2 compat....which they did to make people buy a ps2 when it was beating x360 in sales...which they lied and said it was to make the slim cheaper...but if thats true answer me this...why discontinue the ps3 phat? :/ As Rabid Coot said, they removed Ps2 compat long before the slim and that's a completely different issue to the other OS removal. The other OS removal was removal of a feature that was advertised at point of sale. If you bought a phat or a slim that didn't have backwards compatibility it never had backwards compatibility, it was never advertised to have it and it was never removed. My phat has no back compat, but no one took that from me, I bought a product without it.

either way features that were originally in should stay in unless it's harmful to the PSN or the Hardware....and both of those didn't do any harm

Back compat wasn't removed and otherOS was removed as an attempt to prevent George Hotz from creating a custom firmware. Of course, as it transpired, this had little to no effect (ain't hindsight a wonderful thing), but I'd say it's pretty reasonable to say that the whole PS3 hacking debacle that has carried on from then was slightly harmful to PSN

2011-04-28 20:17:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

Man , this is sonys worst nightmare.
Also i would like to know ,what is a ddos attack?

2011-04-28 20:29:00

Author:
majormel84

Posts: 398

Distributed
Denial
Of
Service

Its when several computers over a wide area (reigon, world, what have you) attack one computer(or group of computers) so it can not accept any more connections.

think of it as if it were phone lines instead of computers.: you wanna shut down a company's phone service, so you and others repeatedly call all of their numbers over an extended period of time. This, in effect, shuts down that phone network, even though it technically does work. This is the basic formula for a DDoS attack. Plug up all the connections so nobldy can use the darned thing.

the intrusion was not, in fact, a ddos attack, as the network outage came from someone at sony pulling the plug. At least thats what i gather.

2011-04-28 20:37:00

Author:
Memodrix

Posts: 879

Ugh, Anonymous just started the biggest troll act in the history of trolls.

2011-04-28 20:43:00

Author:
nysudyrgh

Posts: 5482

Just heard on Watchdog that apparently Sony claimed the credit card details were encrypted and haven't fallen into the wrong hands. Still suspicious though.

2011-04-28 20:51:00

Author:
kirbyman62

Posts: 1893

...advising people who share their passwords with other accounts to change them is absolutely the correct thing to do.

Indeed, although I suspect there are many instances where user account databases are compromised without anyone even noticing, so it's probably safer to assume that someone out there has known some of your shared passwords for quite a while, assuming you don't change them regularly.

I mean, for all we know, the PSN user database may have been compromised ten times already, and this was just the first time Sony actually noticed.

Which of course leads onto the thing that annoys me most about people saying that Sony haven't looked after their personal data well enough.

Well, if the passwords weren't both hashed and salted, I'd agree with "most people", otherwise they're probably about as secure as any other 'corporate' system, i.e. not particularly.

IMO, a good rule of thumb is: "computer security" is a contradiction in terms. See also: all hardware sucks, all software sucks (http://catb.org/jargon/html/A/All-hardware-sucks--all-software-sucks-.html)

2011-04-28 20:52:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

Just saw this on fb. Posted by the LittleBigPlanet2 account. Just an FYI.

Warning!
Fake PSN emails are being sent out. They are using PlayStation_Network@playstation-email.com

2011-04-28 21:12:00

Author:
Morgana25

Posts: 5983

Subscribe to TheFeed
Sony Online Entertainment Planning To Make Good On PSN Outage (http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/712225/sony-online-entertainment-planning-to-make-good-on-psn-outage/)

so they're plan to "make good" is to have a day where people give them money.....

facepalm.jpg SONY is dead to me now even more then ever....but hey at least they apologized....even though they called themselves the "global leader in online gamine" (lol

2011-04-28 21:15:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy

Posts: 3365

Sony expects power restoration by May 3rd

Heres the artical.

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news/12134/sony-expects-psn-restoration-on-may-3

2011-04-28 21:54:00

Author:
Knucklerider

Posts: 72

) and are just making a day for people to give them more money for online currency....

seriously I think it's about time to just start ignoring these updates and news stories...none of them are making me happy at all

Well, I don't see this really as a face palm. They are offering the Double Station cash day on the 30th, but then they mention to do something else for PS3 users. And they don't say they are THE "global leader in online gaming", they say they are A global leader in online gaming...which I would say is true. Of course, how can there be more than one leader if you stop and think about it, unless they are all tied...but I think they mean they are at the top with several others.

2011-04-28 22:39:00

Author:
Spider-Jew

Posts: 1090

Well pretty much, I mean when you think online gaming, it's Xbox, PS3, Nintendo, and PC. So.. I guess they are correct. What else can people really name there, ya know?
Also, if they bring back PSN without massive overhauls and new features, expect massive outcry from a group who take rumors way too seriously.

2011-04-28 22:59:00

Author:
KoingWolf

Posts: 386

Indeed. I never got the whole idea of cross game chat, and why virtually everyone who owns/has played an xbox 360 wants it. Apart from saving on phone bills, it's kinda pointless. Everyone is doing something different, so therefore chat will be fairly random.

"Zoooooooommmmmmmmbbbbbeeeeeeeeeezzzzz!!!"
"Yesss, totally pwned that guy!"
"My lbp level is looking awesome now!"
"I'm in first place... what! That guy is such a cheater!"
"No offense guys, but does anyone have a clue what we're all doing."
"Nope."
"Nu-uh."
"Ain't got a clue." :L

2011-04-28 23:20:00

Author:
abyssalassassin

Posts: 717

Maybe this is what kind of Email Sony said watch out for.

I'm looking through my email and I find this crazy message . I have never gotten anything like it before EVER!

Seems odd I receive this soon after Sony says keep an eye out.
If anyone knows what this is please respond.
It was sent from a Madam Linda.J. Kwame

Here it is:

Hi, Good Morning. Longest time I want you to comprehend* why i revert back to* you, may be you might not remember me again due you may deleted all our email communication in the past. Could you remember me now? I am the Woman Female Lady* from Gongo that contacted you in the past for a very long time now for business transaction transfer #25.500.000.00 of my late husband deposited funds in one Security Company** who died in Congo War as I agreed to offer you some percentage for you to help me then but may be you was afraid and abandon it with me.

However, the transaction has been executed and done in perfected manner with a friend from Hainan island, city* who handle the smooth transfer successfully in his bank account , I remeber* tocompensate** you and show my intergrity and gratitude to you with thesum of #2.500.000.00 for all your past effort and atampt, though may be some one discourage you not to help .

Do not be surprise to receive my mail now, receive the money , it is good to be good because my mind was worried to contact you for this good news, do not say the money is too much no, I deed it so that it will be enough for you, I with my friend is setting up a fishing company here* as advised by my friend for a good profitable, contact* Director Rev.Dr. Danisa John **Admin Apex-Bank Plc on* drdanisajohn@qatar.io and receive the sum which I left for you upon my departure to Hainan island, city* because I have authorized and empowered him* to release the money to you as soon as you contact him.

He *wait to receive your mail and where to transfer the money to you. Ones you*receive the money do let me know I will come to visit you in person foryou to understand and know me and we go into investment in your country whichyou will advise me as an insider for the progressive business, I am very happywith Almighty hence all my dream has come true ,is well . Remain blessed.
Thanks.Madam Linda.J. Kwame, Congolese
N/B This mesage email a Copy sent* to Director Rev.Dr. Danisa John on* drdanisajohn@qatar.io

2011-04-29 00:00:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

The stupidest thing i have ever heard was when,some guy said he would sell his ps3
JUST,to get a xbox and play online.
This truly shows how impatient people are now a days.

2011-04-29 00:01:00

Author:
majormel84

Posts: 398

long wordy bit nobody wants to scroll through again

Spam email if it wasn't automaticly flagged as spam by your email provider do it your self to improve the chances of others like it getting the correct filtration you don't need to do anything else.

2011-04-29 00:15:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

The stupidest thing i have ever heard was when,some guy said he would sell his ps3
JUST,to get a xbox and play online.
This truly shows how impatient people are now a days.

I had said earlier I was thinking about trading. It had nothing to do with playing online it was just because I felt like our information is never gonna be safe with Sony, even felt a little let down. But I sat and thought about all the money I have invested in this machine. I decided to relax and give them a chance, see what happens in the end. I love my ps3 and do many things on it besides play online games. That's crazy if you trade just because you can't play online for a couple weeks. I guess in the end it's the persons decision and they could do whatever they please. I know that I'm not trading mine anytime soon. If things don't ever get back to normal and I feel unsafe with my info then I will rethink a trade. But for now I'm perfectly fine playing some single player, watching movies or not even turning it on. I'm hoping in the end they make a huge comeback and people will soon forget all of this. I really believe it may take some time but when all is said and done we will have a secure,big and better online experience.

If these people want to go to Xbox let em. I've never even played one. I'm a diehard Sony fan. I'm sure Xbox has some great exclusives but to me there are three games I would never give up. They are Little Big Planet of course, Uncharted, and with some rumors going around God of War. My favorite games of all time. They are the reason why I love gaming. I'll never forget the time I set off to find and defeat Ares the god of war...joking. Not really lol.

Spam email if it wasn't automaticly flagged as spam by your email provider do it your self to improve the chances of others like it getting the correct filtration you don't need to do anything else.

It was just in my regular inbox. I marked it as spam. I wonder if anybody in their right mind would fall for that. Maybe in the 90's when this was all so new, but now. Ah I guess maybe a younger kid if he/she had an email account.

2011-04-29 00:27:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

2011-04-29 00:36:00

Author:
CENTURION24

Posts: 266

I don't think Sony wants there to be any evidence that they have access to our credit card info.

My friend tried to use his card on the 19th and there was no $$ ion it. He called his bank and they told him that the last time it was used was on the 18th in madesto Cali at a target. They have a video of some lady purchasing 500$ of merchandise. My friend then gets this email from Sony stating that his info may have been stolen. So he calls Sony telling them his story. Sony then asks him, "so what's your purpose for the call?" He then tells them about the video, how the manager of the target is willing to cooperate with police and if they wanted any of this info to help with there investigation. In not so many words they told him, no and there's nothing they could for him.

Now if this theft is related to the hacking of the psn or not, Sony didn't seem to give 2 **its either way. Maybe it was a one off. They do have many different people answering phones. Idk

This is why they need to start putting people with authority on the end of the phone line. What's the point in customer service when they can't/won't even listen to customers. No big companies realize the power of a good reputation.

Also, apparently there are people claiming to be selling 2.2 million PSN credit cards as I saw tweeted, though I highly doubt this is real. http://psx-scene.com/forums/f6/psn-database-containing-2-2million-credit-cards-now-up-sale-85702/ Just thought I'd post an update. Seriously though, this has got to be fake.

2011-04-29 00:58:00

Author:
Fading-Dream

Posts: 164

As long as my bank details are safe Im happy.

I dont really care about other information or down time of the Playstation Network, its not really that big a deal.
People that are going on like "no psn 4 a week, fail im gettin an xbox", "R my levels ok", "R my trophies safe" or anything of that nature should get their priorities straight. Not like its the end of the world, surely you have more important things to worry about.

Sony said in one of their blogs the billing information is encrypted so if that means its safe I dont think its to much to worry about.

If it takes a month to rebuild the Playstation Network to being more secure then thats how long I expect for them to have it down.
If they are able to make it "better and more secure" then I dont see why it wasnt its best in the first place.
I know they dont charge for PSN but Sony are a HUGE company, and this sort of thing should be standard.

2011-04-29 01:01:00

Author:
oLMCo

Posts: 96

I don't think Sony wants there to be any evidence that they have access to our credit card info.

My friend tried to use his card on the 19th and there was no $$ ion it. He called his bank and they told him that the last time it was used was on the 18th in madesto Cali at a target. They have a video of some lady purchasing 500$ of merchandise. My friend then gets this email from Sony stating that his info may have been stolen. So he calls Sony telling them his story. Sony then asks him, "so what's your purpose for the call?" He then tells them about the video, how the manager of the target is willing to cooperate with police and if they wanted any of this info to help with there investigation. In not so many words they told him, no and there's nothing they could for him.

Now if this theft is related to the hacking of the psn or not, Sony didn't seem to give 2 **its either way. Maybe it was a one off. They do have many different people answering phones. Idk

Regardless if it was something to do with the stolen data or just a case of creditcard fraud it does not matter. Sony should have handled it with total care. There may be a chance now or in the future of this happening due to this mess. It's so hard to tell because who knows if its from all this or a case of non related credit card fraud. So many people fall victim of fraud and identity theft every year. My point is right now the fingers will be pointed at Sony no matter the case, that's why they should have handled it differently.

If you ask me people are victims of credit fraud everyday. That's fully based on our very high interest rates and fees.

2011-04-29 01:03:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

"FBI Cybercrimes Joins 22 States In Sweeping PlayStation Network Investigation"
http://kotaku.com/#!5796832

The Federal Bureau of Investigations today confirmed to Kotaku that it is looking into the security breach that brought the Playstation Network down and exposed millions of users' personal data to cybercriminals.

The FBI is joined by nearly two dozen state attorneys general and possibly the Federal Trade Commission who are looking into this month's Playstation Network hack attack which forced Sony to take their PS3 online service offline for more than a week.

Sony told Kotaku that they reported the security breach to the FBI's cybercrimes unit in San Diego. Contacted Thursday, an FBI spokesman confirmed that they were looking into the reports.

"The FBI is aware of the reports concerning the alleged intrusion into the Sony on line game server and we have been in contact with Sony concerning this matter," said FBI special agent Darrell Foxworth. "We are presently reviewing the available information in an effort to determine the facts and circumstances concerning this alleged criminal activity."

Meanwhile attorneys general from 22 states are demanding answers from Sony over the breach, asking why it took the company so long to alert customers to the attack.

That group of state attorneys general are sharing information with one another about their individual inquiries, Susan Kinsman, communications director for the Connecticut Office of the Attorney General told Kotaku.

The collection of attorneys general have also contacted the Federal Trade Commission to see if they have launched their own federal investigation, she said.

The Federal Trade Commission could have jurisdiction in a case involving loss of customer data through a security breach, FTC spokeswoman Claudia Bourne Farrell told Kotaku. But the FTC does not discuss or confirm ongoing investigations.

Kinsman also declined to say whether the FTC has launched their own investigation.

"A call has been made to the FTC and there will be discussions, but I can't comment on whether the FTC is investigating," she said.

While Kinsman was able to confirm that attorneys general from at least 22 states were looking into the Sony breach and how it might affect consumers in their states, she declined to say which states that included.

Connecticut's own attorney general sent a letter to Sony Computer Entertainment of America President and CEO Jack Tretton on Wednesday. The letter demanded answers to a number of questions including what data was stolen, who was responsible, how long the company knew and what was being done to make sure it doesn't happen again.

"The fact that sensitive information was apparently accessed without authorization makes me especially concerned about the possibility of financial fraud and targeted phishing scams," Connecticut Attorney General George Jepsen wrote. "What is more troubling is Sony's apparent failure to promptly and adequately notify affected individuals of this large-scale breach."

The letter goes on to outline a baker's dozen questions.

Kinsman said the letter was sent out Wednesday and that the office has not yet heard anything back from SCEA.

Sony officials told Kotaku that it wasn't until Monday, after an outside security group conducted an extensive investigation, that they realized customer data had been stolen. That data included names, passwords and other identifying information. Sony doesn't believe credit card numbers were stolen. If it was, that data is also encrypted when it is stored, they said.

Anyone with information concerning the breach is asked to contact the FBI at 858-565-1255 or 1-877-EZ-2-TELL. Cyber tips may be e-mailed to the Internet Crime Complaint Center.

2011-04-29 01:06:00

Author:
KoingWolf

Posts: 386

I dont know if posted

but PSN probably will be back online May 3

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/04/playstation-network-restore-date/

2011-04-29 01:20:00

Author:
Shadowriver

Posts: 3991

Found this on IGN. Sony released a possible date for PSN to be back up. May 3rd :|

2011-04-29 01:27:00

Author:
jeperty

Posts: 486

Found this on IGN. Sony released a possible date for PSN to be back up. May 3rd :|

As long as its BEFORE the release date of Brink, Im good.

:SH:

2011-04-29 01:29:00

Author:
ThePineapplizer

Posts: 769

I just got the e-mail that the hackers have my credit card....

Proof, or you're just trying to start a rumor.

I got an e-mail from Kyle Colonel, about a big sale! So legit!
Anyone else get spam e-mails since PSN went down? Or any from Kyle Colonel?

Is it me, or is everyone getting uber paranoid over random spam emails, something that;s been happening since the internet was made?

Ok, I here it is from a group who call themselves 'Anonymous' they have not liked sony for a while now and they are also friends with the person who discovered how to jailbreak PS3s. They must of got annoyed about the patch that disabled the jailbreak, which could be a short term trigger to the hack.

Some say it is, some say it isn't, some seem to love anon and defend it with all they got for some reason (maybe part of them?), thing is, its all speculation, people really like to make speculation into facts over the internet, specially in gaming media.

Ugh, Anonymous just started the biggest troll act in the history of trolls.

Again, unconfirmed.
Its speculated someone took the chance because they knew Anon would be blamed, others have many other "theories and speculations" none of them can really be confirmed at this moment, so there's no really any point in pointing fingers right now.

Indeed. I never got the whole idea of cross game chat, and why virtually everyone who owns/has played an xbox 360 wants it. Apart from saving on phone bills, it's kinda pointless. Everyone is doing something different, so therefore chat will be fairly random.

"Zoooooooommmmmmmmbbbbbeeeeeeeeeezzzzz!!!"
"Yesss, totally pwned that guy!"
"My lbp level is looking awesome now!"
"I'm in first place... what! That guy is such a cheater!"
"No offense guys, but does anyone have a clue what we're all doing."
"Nope."
"Nu-uh."
"Ain't got a clue." :L

People really have to stop criticizing things they don't know about.
You sound like those people saying LBP is jus for little kids because they've never tried it either.

Cross Game Chat (CGC) is a really useful tool wanted by many, not just xbox players, as you can speak with others without HAVING to play with them.
I mean you don't ALWAYS just talk about the game you're on while talking to others in-game, do you?
Like in your example, for example, you're not gonna spontaneously say "My lbp level is looking awesome now!" while talking about a completely different matter, are you?

Sure if you got no one to talk with, no friends, or no friends in any other game than ones you own, this may seem pointless, and even then, people would like to chat while some are gaming and others are browsing online or something.
Heck, You can use it to talk with real life friends, which is usually done as well.

In short, CGC is not just for talking about what you;re doing i game, but to CHAT with your friends no matter what each is doing/ playing.

Maybe this is what kind of Email Sony said watch out for.

I'm looking through my email and I find this crazy message . I have never gotten anything like it before EVER!

Seems odd I receive this soon after Sony says keep an eye out.
If anyone knows what this is please respond.
It was sent from a Madam Linda.J. Kwame

Its called junk mail/ spam, scams, they've been sent to random emails since who knows when, calm down.
I know you guys are on your rights to be extra careful with all this, but don't get uber paranoid either and start thinking any and all sam mail sent your way is because of this, it's gonna make you go crazy.

Found this on IGN. Sony released a possible date for PSN to be back up. May 3rd :|
They already said it on the FAQ that the PSN may be up a week from the day before that was posted. (May 3rd.)

So please people, be "cautious" not "paranoid," its better to think when calm whn when scared/ freaked out.

2011-04-29 02:27:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

I wonder....only time will tell. Thanks for the info.

2011-04-29 02:34:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt

Posts: 1477

Fraudelent credit card charges: copied and pasted from my credit card website for all to see:
Transactions

Transaction Date Amount Details
04/16/2011 06:03:21 (14.95) CREDITREPORT.COM
04/28/2011 05:21:53 ($1.95) Account Maintenance Fee
04/28/2011 04:28:12 ($4.99) MICROSOFT *XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT *XBOX BILL.XBOX.COMWAUS
04/28/2011 04:25:55 ($19.99) MICROSOFT *XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT *XBOX BILL.XBOX.COMWAUS
04/28/2011 04:24:37 ($49.99) MICROSOFT *XBOX LIVE MICROSOFT *XBOX BILL.XBOX.COMWAUS
04/28/2011 04:23:19 $0.00 Pending - MICROSOFT *BILLI BILL.MS.NET WAUS
04/27/2011 11:15:08 ($1.00) Pending - NAPSTER, LLC 800-839-4210 NYUS
04/27/2011 06:11:53 $0.00 Pending - APL*APPLE ONLINE S 800-676-2775 CAUS

According to these charges, someone ran a credit report on me on April 16th and it appears that the WAUS, NYUS, and CAUS must mean Washington, New York, and California. I do not own an XBOX, nor did I run a credit report on myself. I also do not use Napster or have any idea what the APPLE charge is for. Apparently the last 3 charges never made it through, thank goodness. Also, these are just charges on one of my credit cards. We have 4 PS3s and 2 credit cards were charged and I only listed the charges for one of my cards. Figured that would be enough proof for those who are questioning or thinking their credit card information is safe. NOTHING was safe. By the looks of it, this person or group, or whatever has my name, address, and credit card information. Since there was a credit report done, probably have my social security number by now. With all that information, they know where I live, can find out who I bank with, who my mortage is with, how much my home is worth, probably know what I drive, and know all the names of those in my household by now. I'm very upset at this entire situation, especially since the first charge was on April 16th. I would suggest that everyone check their credit card statements and cancel them. I wouldn't take the chance and think "well, I don't see any charges so far so I'm probably safe." As you saw on the charges, first on one the 16th and the others the 27th and 28th, 4 days before PSN went down and a week after PSN went down. I can get my money back eventually, but my private information being stolen.....won't ever get that back.
I would rather SONY take as long as they need to make sure everyones information is encryped and that this will never happen again. I wouldn't trust any other network either, since someone was able to charge my credit card for XBOX!!!!!

2011-04-29 02:52:00

Author:
Unknown User

...

To defend abyssal, I think she was just trying to make a, rather humorous, point about an aspect of that feature that I agree with. It really is a bit of a random chat you end up with after awhile. Didn't seem so much like a criticism..

I wonder if there will be more PSN usage than before all this. At least for a couple days as people give PSN another go after all this excitement.

2011-04-29 02:52:00

Author:
KoingWolf

Posts: 386

2011-04-29 02:58:00

Author:
Unknown User

Ok, I don't know if this was mentioned already, but now her comes the screwed up part------how many people who have PSN accounts are going to go on a shopping spree with the credit card they had set up for their account and claim it as fraud?? I can see this coming a mile away !! The part that sucks is Sony screwed up and the people with no morals will use this to totally abuse and screw them even more. I'm sorry but I've been a Sony fas since ps1, only other systems I own are a wii and a n64.

Most people who will (will) do this, will be caught red handed. For reasons that will go unmentioned, most people are stupid about how to go about completely anonymous purchasing and even then, with enough effort, you can be caught in the act of insurance fraud. Which just isn't worth it.

I will say though.. got a friend in Nigeria? Now is the time to ask him to buy a car for ya!

2011-04-29 03:01:00

Author:
KoingWolf

Posts: 386

I have no idea if this has been posted yet, so I'm going to post it anyways. This article is from IGN and is accessible... here (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/116/1164641p1.html).

Sony has confirmed that it hopes to restore some fuctionality to the PSN service by next Tuesday in a new statement on the PlayStation Blog.

"Our employees have been working day and night to restore operations as quickly as possible, and we expect to have some services up and running within a week from yesterday. However, we want to be very clear that we will only restore operations when we are confident that the network is secure."

Dated April 27, the update posted by Patrick Seybold (Sr. Director, Corporate Communications & Social Media), would put the estimated return date for PSN services as May 3, meaning that the service will have been offline for two weeks.

Although which services will be coming back online next week is unclear, Sony has stated they are working on new security measures for the future, as well as seeking out those responsible for the breach, confirming they "are working closely with a recognised technology security firm in order to find those responsible for this criminal act, no matter where in the world they might be located."

In a nutshell: It's possible some PSN services will be back by May 3

2011-04-29 04:20:00

Author:
anoken

Posts: 1654

It may have been posted, but not everyone can be bothered to go through all those threads so the repost is quite helpful to some.

2011-04-29 05:02:00

Author:
Fading-Dream

Posts: 164

That's good. As for what cuteasabutton said earlier... I KNEW IT!! THOSE ******* XBOT HACKERS WERE IN ON THIS!!!

Tryin' to ruin it for the rest of us... BAH! They can get RRODs for all I care.

/rant

2011-04-29 05:18:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack

Posts: 5757

Can somebody who has some pull around here start a new thread again. This one is starting to pile up page after page. There has been some major updates since the start of this thread. I'd do it but I don't want it to just get erased. So if somebody can help us out that'd be great. Thank you.

2011-04-29 06:36:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/28/qa-2-for-playstation-network-and-qriocity-services/

Q: Will there be a goodwill gesture for the time we haven?t been able to utilize PSN/Qriocity?
A: We are currently evaluating ways to show appreciation for your extraordinary patience as we work to get these services back online.

2011-04-29 07:28:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

Important info follows:

Apparently 2.2 million credit card details are cuirrently being advertised for sale on the tinterwebs. There is no evidence as yet to indicate this is genuine and last I heard there is no word from the card providers that they have seen any fraudulent activity linked to PSN. The advertisments also claim that they have CVV2 numbers which seems slightly unlikely (though still possible). Take all this as you will, but I thought it was worth mentioning

http://kotaku.com/#!5796902

According to Kevin Stevens, an online security expert with TrendMicro, "low-level cybercriminals" are currently shopping around lists supposedly containing the credit card details of 2.2 million PlayStation Network members.

While Sony says it has "no evidence credit card numbers were stolen" in the attacks on the PlayStation Network, it has still recommended people make necessary precautions regarding their cards and bank accounts.
Stevens says the details are up for sale on the illegal forums of "carders" (people engaged in credit card fraud), and while he does not link these forums directly, says the sellers are claiming to be in possession of card holder's names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, dates of birth and, perhaps most importantly, full credit card details, including their CVV2 numbers (those little numbers on the back of the card).

Now, these sellers could be full of ****. Especialy given the unlikelihood of CVV2 numbers being stored anywhere near the PSN. And I could put a listing on craigslist right now selling the moon for $50 and there's nothing stopping me. Given the severity of the situation and the nature of the claims, though, let's hope "full of ****" is all these people are.

2011-04-29 08:29:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

2011-04-29 08:38:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

There may be a silver linig to this dark cloud
I just spotted this report on Gamespot's news pages

" Credit card companies find no PSN-related activity, all eyes on HiraiBy Tor Thorsen, GameSpotPosted Apr 28, 2011 8:07 pm GMTWells Fargo, American Express, and MasterCard say there's no unauthorized activity tied to leak; debacle may affect executive's succession to Sony's top spot; Sony shares sink 4.5 percent.

As the PSN outage and data leak drag on, Bloomberg has posted a pair of articles that add to the ongoing saga. First, the news service reports that financial companies Wells Fargo, American Express, and MasterCard have seen "no unauthorized activity relating to Sony." The news comes shortly after Sony announced that all PSN credit card information had been encrypted during the time of the leak and that there was "no evidence" that any had been stolen. "

Here,s the link , http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6310570.html?tag=latestheadlines%3Btitle%3B5

Hopefully this proves to be true and the puported sale of psn credit card no's is a scam .

Kaz Hirai's handling of the PSN crisis may determine if he succeeds Sir Howard Stringer as Sony Corp. CEO.

The credit card companies' revelation is a rare bright spot in the crisis, which is weighing heavily on the brow of one particular Sony executive. Bloomberg also reports that Kaz Hirai, who became head of Sony's entire consumer electronics business on April 1, is under a magnifying glass to see how he handles the ongoing debacle. The scrutiny is particularly intense as Hirai has extolled a plan to use the PlayStation Network as the basis of a content store that will extend to other Sony devices, such as HDTVs and Blu-ray players.

"Almost everything Hirai has been trying to do has an element of network," Mitsubishi UFJ Morgan Stanley Securities analyst Masahiko Ishino told the news service. "Sony's strategy to connect its products through network is very crucial for the company's transformation. Sony may struggle if the business gets disrupted."

How Hirai copes with the PSN outage--which has already sparked government investigations and civil lawsuits--will likely affect his chances of succeeding current Sony Corp. CEO Sir Howard Stringer. As part of the announcement of Hirai's promotion, Stringer himself said that he was the frontrunner. "This is an opportunity for the board to watch Hirai-san and judge his performance," said Stringer.

Unfortunately for Sony, the market is already weighing in on the PSN outage. Today, Sony shares fell 4.5 percent to 2,260 ($27.71) on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. It was the largest decline for the company since the tragic earthquake and tsunami hit Japan in mid-March.

2011-04-29 11:01:00

Author:
Unknown User

Ok, I don't know if this was mentioned already, but now here comes the screwed up part------how many people who have PSN accounts are going to go on a shopping spree with the credit card they had set up for their account and claim it as fraud?? I can see this coming a mile away !! The part that sucks is Sony screwed up and the people with no morals will use this to totally abuse and screw them even more. I'm sorry but I've been a Sony fan since ps1, only other systems I own besides 2 ps3's and a ps2 are a wii and a n64.

Most people who will (will) do this, will be caught red handed. For reasons that will go unmentioned, most people are stupid about how to go about completely anonymous purchasing and even then, with enough effort, you can be caught in the act of insurance fraud. Which just isn't worth it.

I will say though.. got a friend in Nigeria? Now is the time to ask him to buy a car for ya!

As Kpomg said, that'd be a VERY stupid thing to do.
A - Do you think you can just claim fraud and they'll give you your money no questions asked?
No, of course not!
There are procedures.

B - Say you somehow managed to pull this off, the PSN acc is still gonna get banned, and the PS3's is most likely be tracked down as well as where all these transactions were made, so...yeah, not as easy as "just claiming fraud."

There may be a silver[leon] linig to this [yaru]dark cloud

I know this has little to nothing to do on the matter, but shoot what a coincidence, huh? xD

2011-04-29 11:39:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

We are mostly all fine the credit cards were encrypted so I think the UK is safe America I still dont know.

2011-04-29 12:07:00

Author:
craigmond

Posts: 2426

Well, it better be back before my birthday on may 6th!

2011-04-29 12:09:00

Author:
Squidge99

Posts: 203

We are mostly all fine the credit cards were encrypted so I think the UK is safe America I still dont know.

That BETTER be the case, right now, SONY's already in deep problems as it is, wouldn't have announced anything if they hadn't been forced to, but as of right now, its still nothing the company can't recover from, it WILL hurt it and leave a stain on the PSN name, but still will go on, BUT if they do find out people's credit card information was leaked...oooooh man, Sony's gonna be up for it, not just from the costumers, nonononono, they will be the LEAST of their problems, trust me, by then, the problem would have scaled to a point of no return, a point so high, they may have to ditch the Playstation brand altogether for how bad it is.

Some may not see it, but this is already something serious, Sony's already in trouble with the people at the top as it is, find out Credit Card info was indeed leaked, and Sony's gonna be a-hurting BIG time.

Not to mention how bad they're gonna have it from credit card companies as well, oh man, its gonna be really bad for Sony.

So don't worry, right now they got Sony by the neck, if CC info is confirmed to be leaked, you WILL know it, they are now forced to do so, unlike before, they cannot ignore users and sweep everything under the carpet, they are being watched closely, and they are not in a place to be withholding information at all.

2011-04-29 12:50:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

To me this affair just highlights how unsafe credit cards are and even worse, how at this day and age it's still far too easy to pretend to be someone else using just a name, address and birthdate. That's where the real problem is.

2011-04-29 14:11:00

Author:
Rogar

Posts: 2284

On the bright side, I've finally gotten around to finishing off my back catalog of games. Working on the pc version of new vegas now. Oh, and i re-sighted my shotgun! Stupid lack of gran turismo 5 credit grinding making me do...other useless stuff.

Seriously, i can't help but laugh at how everyone is freaking out over it. I'm not worried in the slightest. Then again, I am poor, and kind of have a morbid sense of humor.

2011-04-29 14:27:00

Author:
Memodrix

Posts: 879

I give it another week or two for the PSN to get back online, and around 2 weeks - 6 months (depending on the circumstances) for them to find the hacker(s).

Buuuuuuut that's what I think. I could be easily wrong.

2011-04-29 15:17:00

Author:
Tmjtk

Posts: 258

Updated first post with new info.

Can somebody who has some pull around here start a new thread again. This one is starting to pile up page after page. There has been some major updates since the start of this thread. I'd do it but I don't want it to just get erased. So if somebody can help us out that'd be great. Thank you.

I've been continuing to put all the substantiated information into the first post. I'm trying to avoid including any rumors or speculation. If you think there's anything I've missed, please let me know.

2011-04-29 15:19:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

Updated first post with new info.

I've been continuing to put all the substantiated information into the first post. I'm trying to avoid including any rumors or speculation. If you think there's anything I've missed, please let me know.

Yeah, to further Aya's post... we're not going to link to the hundreds of articles repeating what Sony has released but in slightly different language, or articles that merely add opinion or speculation for good measure. What you will see in the OP is official, verified information that is important and pertinent to the topic.

You can feel free to discuss individual articles that don't meet these criteria here as you feel necessary.

2011-04-29 15:51:00

Author:
schm0

Posts: 1239

Sony just need to hurry up updating the PS3's ,then they can get back to there wild goose chase. Luckily I didn't put any credit card stuff in, thinking ahead here...

2011-04-29 16:21:00

Author:
dyna

Posts: 260

Oh, I really hope Credit Card information is safe, as others have said, it will hurt the customers as well as the brand itself. Playstation has been one of the most successful brands and I think we'd all hate for it to end because of some hackers.

How does everyone think the hackers are feeling right now anyway, happy about the chaos caused, or ashamed and upset at what's happened as a result of them? I'm sure even if they're happy know, if the Playstation brand goes downhill because of them, they will be ashamed and a lot of people will want to give them a piece of their mind if they are ever caught, which I hope they will be!

2011-04-29 16:33:00

Author:
Plasmavore

Posts: 1913

They just probably bought a BMW, there probably happy.

2011-04-29 16:41:00

Author:
dyna

Posts: 260

I wonder what I'm gonna do with my PS3 if Sony decides to end PSN and Playstation altogether.

2011-04-29 18:54:00

Author:
Unknown User

2011-04-29 19:06:00

Author:
Enlong3

Posts: 357

How does everyone think the hackers are feeling right now anyway, happy about the chaos caused, or ashamed and upset at what's happened as a result of them? I'm sure even if they're happy know, if the Playstation brand goes downhill because of them, they will be ashamed and a lot of people will want to give them a piece of their mind if they are ever caught, which I hope they will be!

You think the people that did this are remorseful, guilt-ridden, or sad, or anything else? Really? I'm sure if consciences were involved they'd have turned the data over and handed themselves in.

I imagine they're probably feeling pretty awesome about having committed possibly the biggest electronic information heist. Maybe thrilled or frightened over the possibility of getting caught or getting away with it. Maybe they're enjoying fat wads of cash from selling off the data.

But feeling badly when this was a deliberate planned attack that they knew would have a huge impact on Sony and 75 million customers? Not a chance.... we're talking criminals here who have their own interests in mind and don't care how many fingers they step on.

2011-04-29 19:42:00

Author:
Thegide

Posts: 1465

2011-04-29 19:43:00

Author:
Unknown User

Important info follows:

Apparently 2.2 million credit card details are cuirrently being advertised for sale on the tinterwebs. There is no evidence as yet to indicate this is genuine and last I heard there is no word from the card providers that they have seen any fraudulent activity linked to PSN. The advertisments also claim that they have CVV2 numbers which seems slightly unlikely (though still possible). Take all this as you will, but I thought it was worth mentioning

http://kotaku.com/#!5796902

According to the FAQ, these numbers were never stored in the system to begin with:

Q: Was my credit card data taken?

A: While all credit card information stored in our systems is encrypted and there is no evidence at this time that credit card data was taken, we cannot rule out the possibility. If you have provided your credit card data through PlayStation Network or Qriocity, out of an abundance of caution we are advising you that your credit card number (excluding security code) and expiration date may have been obtained. Keep in mind, however that your credit card security code (sometimes called a CVC or CSC number) has not been obtained because we never requested it from anyone who has joined the PlayStation Network or Qriocity, and is therefore not stored anywhere in our system.

So, sounds to me like a scam targeted at scammers.

2011-04-29 19:47:00

Author:
Thegide

Posts: 1465

So, sounds to me like a scam targeted at scammers.

If you're scamming scammers does that make you a good guy or a bad guy? I just don't know what's right and wrong anymore!!!!

2011-04-29 21:04:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

If you're scamming scammers does that make you a good guy or a bad guy? I just don't know what's right and wrong anymore!!!!

Well, there's "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", but there's also "two wrongs don't make a right". I see your dilemma.

2011-04-29 21:42:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

Maybe it would be best to skim the scum rather than scam the scammers?

2011-04-29 21:52:00

Author:
jwwphotos

Posts: 11383

So now it's a life lesson discussion.

2011-04-29 21:54:00

Author:
Maxi

Posts: 1176

Let's just hope that Sony is able to find those hackers and expose all of their information because I would love to know where they live

2011-04-29 22:08:00

Author:
Enlong3

Posts: 357

According to the FAQ, these numbers were never stored in the system to begin with:

So, sounds to me like a scam targeted at scammers.

I did read that post on PSN blog about those numbers never being stored inthe PSN system, although I clearly remember having to enter my security code for my credit card to make purchases on the PSN. I spoke with all the companies that purchases were made using my credit card. I also spoke with SONY to notify of my situation and asked the representative about the security code. He said "We are still investigating the situation."
I was on the phone all morning with these companies and heres the information I received:
3 different names, 2 different addresses. One person used my actual address for their address but changed the street name.
Napster told me that one account created using my credit card was flagged because the person tried to use several credit cards to make purchases. Same thing with Apple.
I have notified SONY with all this inforamtion I have received.

I'm not sure if anyone else is having problems like I am, but I'm posing this just in case.

2011-04-29 22:15:00

Author:
Unknown User

im glad i didnt use my credit card info,i always use prepaid cards
but my cousin used his card info so he's checking on the status of his account

2011-04-29 23:17:00

Author:
Unknown User

You guys do realize that if Sony were to do away with PSN it would lead to the collapse of SCE. I doubt Sony has any real incentive to end PSN services as its a pretty big component of Sony's existence. Now if we could just do away with these lawsuits against Sony. The people should focus on the real perpetrators (aka the hackers) and sue them out of existence. If I leave my friends car out in the open at night with the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition, its not my fault if someone decides to steal it. I have been overall satisfied with the way Sony has been handling the situation provided that their excuse for the delayed news is valid.

A - You do realize that PSN IS already causing the collapse of SCE, this incident is costing SONY, big time, its not really that hughe of a deal to SONY, I mean, its pretty big, but the main company SONY could still survive, PlayStation on the other hand...
They may as well ditch "Playstation" and start over with a new "brand."

B - Yes, it IS your fault and the robbers, they would not have been able to steal it if you had locked it, thus you're partially at fault for "allowing" them to steal it.
Its like if someone walked into a bank, and robbed the place with NO problems, no cops ever show up, no one tries to stop them, they take the money effortlessly.

Sure, the robbers are still the main bad guys, but the bank's also at fault for having no security and making no attempt to stop them.
Same here, yes the hackers are the main bad guys, but SONY is still at fault for not securing the information as well as they should have.
I mean come on, they're a mega company, they could have done that, they CHOSE not to do so.

I mean really, who doesn't encrypt that sort of information, OR keeps access to EVERYTHING from one point?
I've seen fan sites and forums more secure than that...

2011-04-30 01:08:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

So I still dont understand how to change my passwords without going on PSN. Can someone explain?

2011-04-30 01:19:00

Author:
Unknown User

A - You do realize that PSN IS already causing the collapse of SCE, this incident is costing SONY, big time, its not really that hughe of a deal to SONY, I mean, its pretty big, but the main company SONY could still survive, PlayStation on the other hand...
They may as well ditch "Playstation" and start over with a new "brand."

B - Yes, it IS your fault and the robbers, they would not have been able to steal it if you had locked it, thus you're partially at fault for "allowing" them to steal it.
Its like if someone walked into a bank, and robbed the place with NO problems, no cops ever show up, no one tries to stop them, they take the money effortlessly.

Sure, the robbers are still the main bad guys, but the bank's also at fault for having no security and making no attempt to stop them.
Same here, yes the hackers are the main bad guys, but SONY is still at fault for not securing the information as well as they should have.
I mean come on, they're a mega company, they could have done that, they CHOSE not to do so.

I mean really, who doesn't encrypt that sort of information, OR keeps access to EVERYTHING from one point?
I've seen fan sites and forums more secure than that...

I disagree and let me tell you why. The PSN hacking was definitely an offset but is by no means a reason to completely eliminate the system. It is crucial to the Playstation brand in that it provides a major source of revenue for Sony and convenience for gamers. Without it, there is no feasible way for Sony to compete with the other competitors. I did not mean to refer to the parent company (although Sony's stock has taken a hit from the incident as well) in my original post but rather SCE. SCE would be virtually wiped out of existence without the online network. I think it would be silly to sell off a new product just to move away from the damage caused by the hacking. The playstation brand has taken many years and millions of dollars to develop over the last couple of decades and to do away with it would be a hard blow for Sony and gamers around the world. It would be hard to deny that the collapse of SCE would have severely damaging effects to its parent company.

It is hard to say how much security is sufficient given that just about anything is hackable. Even banks, the government, and wall street get hacked from time to time. Is it their fault that the hackers are able to penetrate the security put into place? Not if it was implemented to a certain degree of protection. Everything is hackable and to let one successful hacking attempt be the end of a company is pretty sad in my opinion.

2011-04-30 01:31:00

Author:
Enlong3

Posts: 357

I disagree and let me tell you why. The PSN hacking was definitely an offset but is by no means a reason to completely eliminate the system. It is crucial to the Playstation brand in that it provides a major source of revenue for Sony and convenience for gamers. Without it, there is no feasible way for Sony to compete with the other competitors. I did not mean to refer to the parent company (although Sony's stock has taken a hit from the incident as well) in my original post but rather SCE. SCE would be virtually wiped out of existence without the online network. I think it would be silly to sell off a new product just to move away from the damage caused by the hacking. The playstation brand has taken many years and millions of dollars to develop over the last couple of decades and to do away with it would be a hard blow for Sony and gamers around the world. It would be hard to deny that the collapse of SCE would have severely damaging effects to its parent company.

It is hard to say how much security is sufficient given that just about anything is hackable. Even banks, the government, and wall street get hacked from time to time. Is it their fault that the hackers are able to penetrate the security put into place? Not if it was implemented to a certain degree of protection. Everything is hackable and to let one successful hacking attempt be the end of a company is pretty sad in my opinion.

You don't understand, they wouldn't ditch PSN because they'd want to "push away" damage, but because they'd have NO choice.
You don't seem to grasp how serious the situation is, this is a lot more than "just hacking."
You didn't read my post completely, did you?
They are in a lot more trouble with federal agencies and such for allowing hackers to gain access to such information and for retaining from telling the public for so long, and if the credit card information was indeed also leaked, they're going to be in major trouble, again, Credit card companies are gonna have losses as well, and who's to blame?
Sony.
Sony is ultimately responsible to keep that information safe and do all it can from being hacked, yes, all "can" be hacked, no, that is no excuse to leave your doors open and unsecured to let any hacker hack you.

Its not their fault someone managed to hack them it IS their fault they did it so easly and that they did not put enough effort in their security to avoid it.

They were sloppy and overconfident, and that you cannot blame the hackers for.
I mean, Imagine I keep a large sum of money in my front door, someone steals it, is it my fault they stole it?
Yes, because I did not even attempt to prevent it from being stolen.

And again, there are a lot of people looking at SONY right now, you think the leaking of credit card information isn't such a big deal, bu it is, its a major deal if a company allows the credit card information of their clients to be leaked.

I'm not saying not to blame the hacker, they better be behind bars for a long time for this, BUT Sony is a multimillion company, and they sure as heck could have done a better job with security and not let tehm have access to such massive amount of information so easly.

I do remind you that the hackers got access to information, Worldwide.
You say "oh, that doesn't concerns me, I put false info."
Yes, but the information that IS real can be used for identity theft and other fraudulent activities, since many places require only a valid address and name to match it, people can use that information for various things, next thing you know, BAM, thousands of dollars in debt for something you didn't know about.
The info can easly be used to make fake IDs and such.

So no, its not "nothing," this IS a big deal, the hacker has committed a felony, and SONY was well and capable of doing more to secure the information, which they didn't.

If they had done at least somewhat of a better job, they would NOT have connected access to everything from a single point, they would have separated it by region, at least minimizing damage to this kind of situation.
But no, if the hackers got to the CC info, that means they got access to millions of CCs worldwide, so it IS a very, very, big deal, and as much as I used to like sony, they did drop the ball this time, and fanboys got to realize that instead of standing in front to protect them after they got screwed over by that same company.
I mean, you do realize if it wasn't for the outside investigation party they hired, forcing them by law to inform the public of what was going on, Sony would've most likely try to place this under the rugh and just keep with the "Emergency maintenance" story, right?

2011-04-30 02:22:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

You don't understand, they wouldn't ditch PSN because they'd want to "push away" damage, but because they'd have NO choice.
You don't seem to grasp how serious the situation is, this is a lot more than "just hacking."
You didn't read my post completely, did you?
They are in a lot more trouble with federal agencies and such for allowing hackers to gain access to such information and for retaining from telling the public for so long, and if the credit card information was indeed also leaked, they're going to be in major trouble, again, Credit card companies are gonna have losses as well, and who's to blame?
Sony.
Sony is ultimately responsible to keep that information safe and do all it can from being hacked, yes, all "can" be hacked, no, that is no excuse to leave your doors open and unsecured to let any hacker hack you.

Its not their fault someone managed to hack them it IS their fault they did it so easly and that they did not put enough effort in their security to avoid it.

They were sloppy and overconfident, and that you cannot blame the hackers for.
I mean, Imagine I keep a large sum of money in my front door, someone steals it, is it my fault they stole it?
Yes, because I did not even attempt to prevent it from being stolen.

And again, there are a lot of people looking at SONY right now, you think the leaking of credit card information isn't such a big deal, bu it is, its a major deal if a company allows the credit card information of their clients to be leaked.

I'm not saying not to blame the hacker, they better be behind bars for a long time for this, BUT Sony is a multimillion company, and they sure as heck could have done a better job with security and not let tehm have access to such massive amount of information so easly.

I do remind you that the hackers got access to information, Worldwide.
You say "oh, that doesn't concerns me, I put false info."
Yes, but the information that IS real can be used for identity theft and other fraudulent activities, since many places require only a valid address and name to match it, people can use that information for various things, next thing you know, BAM, thousands of dollars in debt for something you didn't know about.
The info can easly be used to make fake IDs and such.

So no, its not "nothing," this IS a big deal, the hacker has committed a felony, and SONY was well and capable of doing more to secure the information, which they didn't.

If they had done at least somewhat of a better job, they would NOT have connected access to everything from a single point, they would have separated it by region, at least minimizing damage to this kind of situation.
But no, if the hackers got to the CC info, that means they got access to millions of CCs worldwide, so it IS a very, very, big deal, and as much as I used to like sony, they did drop the ball this time, and fanboys got to realize that instead of standing in front to protect them after they got screwed over by that same company.
I mean, you do realize if it wasn't for the outside investigation party they hired, forcing them by law to inform the public of what was going on, Sony would've most likely try to place this under the rugh and just keep with the "Emergency maintenance" story, right?

This person knows what they are talking about. I've been keeping an eye on him waiting for Silverleon to post. When he posts he is right. Notice he only posts when he knows exactly what he is talking about. He doesn't post junk like me. Where I think I know but do not have any clue. Well a little, but you can tell he is educated when it comes to this stuff. He read and tears apart each post he responds to, in a good way though. He thinks his all the way through and looks at it from every angle. I've disagreed with Silverleon before but I'll admit in the end he was right. You his opinion are not just opinion they are facts. I give him total props. Good work man, keep em coming.

2011-04-30 02:44:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

Back to information and not speculation.

PlayStation Network Attack Now Has the Attention of U.S. Homeland Security
http://kotaku.com/#!5797288

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security has joined the FBI, Federal Trade Commission and 22 state attorneys general in investigating last week's PlayStation Network breach. That "malicious intrusion" into Sony's online network and its Qriocity service forced PlayStation owners offline and threatened the security of some 77 million accounts.

Homeland Security says it is "aware of the recent cyber intrusion" to Sony's online infrastructure, according to a report from NextGov. DHS spokesman Chris Ortman tells the site that the department's "Computer Emergency Readiness Team is working with law enforcement, international partners and Sony to assess the situation."

Yesterday, the FBI confirmed to Kotaku it is "presently reviewing the available information in an effort to determine the facts and circumstances concerning this alleged criminal activity."

Personal data culled from the exposure of millions of PlayStation Network and Qriocity accounts may expose other accounts, including those of government, business and financial institutions.

Sony said in a statement earlier this week that it believes user information including names, addresses, birth dates and purchase histories may have been exposed, as that data was not encrypted on the company's PlayStation Network. The PlayStation maker says stored credit card data was encrypted, stressing that "there is no evidence at this time that credit card data was taken," though it could not rule out the possibility.

For PlayStation 3 owners, the one bright light in this ordeal was that Friends Lists and PlayStation Trophies are expected to remain intact when the service returns, likely sometime next week.

Via: http://www.nextgov.com/nextgov/ng_20110429_3808.php

2011-04-30 02:45:00

Author:
KoingWolf

Posts: 386

... blah blah blah tl;dr

But let me say this: I think it is too misleading to say that Sony just left their customers information out in the open. There was a security system in place and if the information was so vulnerable then it would have been compromised a long time ago. All the people who demand an answer for the delayed situation update have a good reason to be upset, I agree, but it was not like Sony was trying to keep it from becoming public news. They were probably holding out until they had more concrete news of what exactly had happened before they released a public announcement that may have caused an unnecessary panic. True I do believe Sony should had been a little more honest upfront in the beginning and told us that an intrusion had been detected along with the possibility of a data breach but it is not like they waited weeks to tell us either.

Too many people are complaining because that this situation could have been easily prevented had better security measures been implemented at the time. Without a understanding of the scope of the breach we are left unaware of the actual circumstances of this issue. Can we have a security professional from this site share some helpful insight as to whether you believe Sony's security measures were sufficient in stopping hackers as compared to today's standards. It is too easy to blame Sony just because it was their infrastructure that had been hacked. Heck, even the PS3 had state of the art security protection and even that was compromised within good time. If someone can provide us with details of how secure PSN's infrastructure was, we can better ascertain whether Sony should be held responsible or not. I mean its not my fault if my armored car has ultra-lock windows/doors and a steering wheel lock but someone still manages to steal it.

I'm not downplaying the seriousness of the situation. This is a huge deal and needs to be dealt with accordingly. It is good that Sony is taking steps to ensure that this doesn't happen again in the future. People also need to realize that just because it happens with Sony doesn't mean it doesn't happen anywhere else. This is a major issue for any company regardless of their current system infrastructure.

2011-04-30 02:46:00

Author:
Enlong3

Posts: 357

I have to say I hate the idea of a class action lawsuit. I would never be a part of it. EVER. Well maybe **** got stolen from me. But again NEVER!

2011-04-30 02:56:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

I have to say I hate the idea of a class action lawsuit. I would never be a part of it. EVER. Well maybe **** got stolen from me. But again NEVER!

I would only suggest joining a class action lawsuit if you had a substantially amount of damage caused to you due to someone else's negligence and which you can support by rock solid evidence.

2011-04-30 03:03:00

Author:
Enlong3

Posts: 357

I would only suggest joining a class action lawsuit if you had a substantially amount of damage caused to you due to someone else's negligence and which you can support by rock solid evidence.

My point exactly

At this point I'm just waiting for things to be back to normal. Also I don't even think we should get anything for free because of the downtime. The only way would be if your a plus user but even I don't know. For me I don't want a thing I just want a secure network that kicks ***.

2011-04-30 03:29:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

But let me say this: I think it is too misleading to say that Sony just left their customers information out in the open. There was a security system in place and if the information was so vulnerable then it would have been compromised a long time ago. All the people who demand an answer for the delayed situation update have a good reason to be upset, I agree, but it was not like Sony was trying to keep it from becoming public news. They were probably holding out until they had more concrete news of what exactly had happened before they released a public announcement that may have caused an unnecessary panic. True I do believe Sony should had been a little more honest upfront in the beginning and told us that an intrusion had been detected along with the possibility of a data breach but it is not like they waited weeks to tell us either.

Too many people are complaining because that this situation could have been easily prevented had better security measures been implemented at the time. Without a understanding of the scope of the breach we are left unaware of the actual circumstances of this issue. Can we have a security professional from this site share some helpful insight as to whether you believe Sony's security measures were sufficient in stopping hackers as compared to today's standards. It is too easy to blame Sony just because it was their infrastructure that had been hacked. Heck, even the PS3 had state of the art security protection and even that was compromised within good time. If someone can provide us with details of how secure PSN's infrastructure was, we can better ascertain whether Sony should be held responsible or not. I mean its not my fault if my armored car has ultra-lock windows/doors and a steering wheel lock but someone still manages to steal it.
For starters, they should have encrypted ALL costume data, that's something basic, specially for such company, secondly, not give access to all the information from one point, giving the hacker, the ability to access all the information by simply accessing said point, they should have divided it by region, which would minimize the damage in such situation, allowing them to take notice before such massive amount of information was compromised like it is now, they would probably still have had done the same thing as its happening right now, but the damage would not be as great, meaning only the information of the individuals in the hacked region would've been compromised, not the info of everyone worldwide.
The downtime may have been lessened as well, and perhaps sony may have even been able to sweep it under the rug, like they always do.
(Unless Sony was so slow to notice the security breach on more than one are, of course.)
Last, not "store" credit card information on the main servers, but locally, only accessing it when its needed.

"its not my fault if my armored car has ultra-lock windows/doors and a steering wheel lock but someone still manages to steal it"
Yes, but Sony's car didn't even have windows, left the keys inside, and didn't even bother to place a steering wheel lock, they didn't get them as it would cost them money and effort, even tho they could've done it and it would've prevented the now on the loose stolen car/ User Information.

I'm not downplaying the seriousness of the situation. This is a huge deal and needs to be dealt with accordingly. It is good that Sony is taking steps to ensure that this doesn't happen again in the future. People also need to realize that just because it happens with Sony doesn't mean it doesn't happen anywhere else. This is a major issue for any company regardless of their current system infrastructure.

I would take you seriously, altho you did mention you didn't read what I said, so I will not, I would only be repeating the points I've already made in that post, please do read it fully before answering, perhaps there were some points you missed that may change your opinion.
(Not to mention its kinda rude to call someone out on a point they made, when you didn't even listened to what they said.)

I did answer one of the points you made out of courtesy, even tho I had covered that already on my previous post you didn't seem to have bothered to finish.

2011-04-30 04:18:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

They're not responsible for being hacked.

They are responsible for not getting the information to the public sooner.

What I see as the simplest form of your argument Yaru. The argument I'd probably have to agree with most.

2011-04-30 04:30:00

Author:
Maxi

Posts: 1176

I would take you seriously, altho you did mention you didn't read what I said, so I will not, I would only be repeating the points I've already made in that post, please do read it fully before answering, perhaps there were some points you missed that may change your opinion.
(Not to mention its kinda rude to call someone out on a point they made, when you didn't even listened to what they said.)

I did answer one of the points you made out of courtesy, even tho I had covered that already on my previous post you didn't seem to have bothered to finish.

There's too much to read so I'll just give up and let someone else step in to defend Sony against all their incompetence in the security field.

2011-04-30 05:01:00

Author:
Enlong3

Posts: 357

They're not responsible for being hacked.

I disagree with this...because if they never sued GeoHot in the first place this whole mess would of never happened, anonymous would have never done their attack and shown how vunerable the PSN is which then leads to this...imo SONY basically started all of this...so in a way it IS their fault they got hacked.

M$ and Nintendo don't go out of their way to sue hackers because they know how useless that is. (that's like destroying a hornets nest thinking you killed all hornets in existence and that they won't try and sting you like hell for the attempt) and as you can see M$ and Nintendo are not suffering from piracy or from any hacking.

P.S. - yes they experience piracy but what I meant is that it's not really negatively effecting them as much as people would like to believe....it's just like the music industry and how strong it is now despite most people getting MP3s through piracy. (I don't condone piracy...but just saying it's not really killing corporations)

2011-04-30 05:13:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy

Posts: 3365

You can read the information in this link.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/hackers-claim-to-have-playstation-users-card-data/

2011-04-30 05:17:00

Author:
Unknown User

A - You do realize that PSN IS already causing the collapse of SCE, this incident is costing SONY, big time, its not really that hughe of a deal to SONY, I mean, its pretty big, but the main company SONY could still survive, PlayStation on the other hand...
They may as well ditch "Playstation" and start over with a new "brand."

I don't think the situation is quite as dramatic as you're making it out to be, and this incident - while serious - is certainly not going to warrant dismantling PSN or dumping a massive brand like Playstation. Yes, it's possible that Sony has been irresponsible and possibly negligent in their handling of our data, but try to remember that Sony didn't commit the crime here, they're also the victims. This kind of thing has happened before, and on an even bigger scale. If Sony botched their security that's one thing, but hackers are always going to be clever and find new ways to break into things, that's just how it is.

They are in a lot more trouble with federal agencies and such for allowing hackers to gain access to such information and for retaining from telling the public for so long, and if the credit card information was indeed also leaked, they're going to be in major trouble, again, Credit card companies are gonna have losses as well, and who's to blame?
Sony.

Again, that's if they're found to be negligent here and that's what under scrutiny right now. Someone forcibly broke into their network, so it's not as if they left their house unlocked and were robbed...possibly it's a case of them needing a stronger lock on their front door.

As I understand it, their practice of not encrypting non-CC information is probably not considered best practices, but I don't think that they're violating any laws doing it that way. If they're found to not be in compliance with the credit merchant security standards in the various countries affected, then that's a whole other story...they'll likely be found liable for any fraudulent charges.

2011-04-30 05:18:00

Author:
Chazprime

Posts: 587

This is a catastrophe... im glad i i did remove my credit card info but still, i dont like this. i wish that this did not happen or happened to xbox lol

as long as i can play create and share with friends again. idgaf what happens.

2011-04-30 05:33:00

Author:
Distinct-Creator

Posts: 198

I think the real main argument here is whether Sony's security measures were sufficient enough to protect users data. By sufficient, we don't mean what Sony should have or could have done but rather was this an adequate way of protecting sensitive data? True some data was unencrypted but it is still misleading to say this information was in everybody's reach. The data had still been protected through security measures. The CC information was encrypted yet that was compromised and people still regard it as if it wasn't. If they got that encrypted info, then what would non-CC info being encrypted have done to help? It could be possible that too many people might think that Sony should have really gone out of their way when in reality the data could have been adequately protected as mandated by law, common sense, whatever. Of course, an additional level of security would have been helpful but was it really necessary considering there had been no other compromises of PSN data before? It could be hard to prove that Sony was negligent of protecting others data is all I'm saying.

2011-04-30 05:35:00

Author:
Enlong3

Posts: 357

I don't think the situation is quite as dramatic as you're making it out to be, and this incident - while serious - is certainly not going to warrant dismantling PSN or dumping a massive brand like Playstation. Yes, it's possible that Sony has been irresponsible and possibly negligent in their handling of our data, but try to remember that Sony didn't commit the crime here, they're also the victims. This kind of thing has happened before, and on an even bigger scale. If Sony botched their security that's one thing, but hackers are always going to be clever and find new ways to break into things, that's just how it is.

Again, that's if they're found to be negligent here and that's what under scrutiny right now. Someone forcibly broke into their network, so it's not as if they left their house unlocked and were robbed...possibly it's a case of them needing a stronger lock on their front door.

As I understand it, their practice of not encrypting non-CC information is probably not considered best practices, but I don't think that they're violating any laws doing it that way. If they're found to not be in compliance with the credit merchant security standards in the various countries affected, then that's a whole other story...they'll likely be found liable for any fraudulent charges.

As I said, they are "ok" (if you can call it that.) as long as it isn't confirmed the CC info has been leaked.
Right now they can still recover but with a stain on the PSN name, now IF they do confirm teh CC card information was leaked, THAT is when they're shrewed.

I disagree with this...because if they never sued GeoHot in the first place this whole mess would of never happened, anonymous would have never done their attack and shown how vunerable the PSN is which then leads to this...imo SONY basically started all of this...so in a way it IS their fault they got hacked.

Geohot gave the key and opened the doors for everyone to hack PS3 more easily, thus easing the PSN hacking process, so indirectly, this is a result of his actions, so don't go making him a hero.
(Not to mention he took most of the donation money since he decided to "wuss out" as many put it, from the legal battle, and decided to settle, thus betraying all he kept talking about "freedom to hackers and whatever," and yes, he may have donated the money to charity, but :
A - That was not his money to begin with, that was others money they donated for his legal defense, so even if for charity, its still betraying those who donated to him.

B - He did it to save himself of course, he had no other choice, but if he was up to him, do you trully not believed he would have kept the money?

C - That's not even the point, the points he promised all those people he would fight for his and their rights no matter what and then backed out, now to me, it seems he never really was up for this, he just started this, because he knew the only way to get out of the trouble he was in, was to settle, so there was most than likely no effort to do what he kept saying he'd do.

Also, you CANNOT justify the hackers because Sony is all within his rights to sue them.
So Microsoft and Wii didn't, so what?
That's they're business and a different company, just because they don't care doesn't make it any less wrong to hack the PS3.

Let me put it in a way you may be able to understand.
Lets say 3 people make ultra amazing never before seen levels, each with unique amazing logic nobody knew about, people kept pestering them for it, so 2 of them give the logic in a level, while the 3rd decides to keep it his secret.
Some guy gets the god glitch for the sake of argument, and steals his logic and puts it up for everyone to copy.

Now tell me, in that situation, are you saying because the other 2 people shared their logic, does that make it completely ok for that other person to go and steal the other person's logic and make it public without his permission?
You're saying its ok to steal, if other people have given away similar stuff?

2011-04-30 07:29:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

(Not to mention he took most of the donation money since he decided to "wuss out" as many put it, from the legal battle, and decided to settle, thus betraying all he kept talking about "freedom to hackers and whatever" and his fans who donated for his legal defence, since they're not going to court, he's got a lot of money right about now, from the suckers that donated to him.)

Believe me, I am not trying to defend GeoHot in any way, but I thought that it was confirmed that he donated that donation money he received to the EFF.
Other than that, I completely agree with you, that he is no hero. They had every right to sue him for his shenanigans.

2011-04-30 07:54:00

Author:
Spider-Jew

Posts: 1090

Geohot gave the key and opened the doors for everyone to hack PS3 more easily, thus easing the PSN hacking process, so indirectly, this is a result of his actions, so don't go making him a hero.
(Not to mention he took most of the donation money since he decided to "wuss out" as many put it, from the legal battle, and decided to settle, thus betraying all he kept talking about "freedom to hackers and whatever" and his fans who donated for his legal defence, since they're not going to court, he's got a lot of money right about now, from the suckers that donated to him.)

Also, you CANNOT justify the hackers because Sony is all within his rights to sue them.
So Microsoft and Wii didn't, so what?
That's they're business and a different company, just because they don't care doesn't make it any less wrong to hack the PS3.

Let me put it in a way you may be able to understand.
Lets say 3 people make ultra amazing never before seen levels, each with unique amazing logic nobody knew about, people kept pestering them for it, so 2 of them give the logic in a level, while the 3rd decides to keep it his secret.
Some guy gets the god glitch for the sake of argument, and steals his logic and puts it up for everyone to copy.

Now tell me, in that situation, are you saying because the other 2 people shared their logic, does that make it completely ok for that other person to go and steal the other person's logic and make it public without his permission?
You're saying its ok to steal, if other people have given away similar stuff?

for someone that talks about "not reading fully" you don't seem to practice what you preach...and if you're going to disagree with this then please show me where i mentioned GeoHot being a hero...nothing? okay moving on.

1) he opened the door for hacking the PS3...not the PSN...there's a BIG difference there...the keys are a HARDWARE issue not a software one...which is why SONY couldn't fix it with a FIRMWARE update...which woulda been my counter to your argument if it were true that he opened hacking for the PSN...but he didn't...that was anonymous with their DDoS attacks which displayed how easy it was to hack the PSN...so let's repeat...GeoHot = PS3 hackable, Anonymous = PSN easy hackable...understood? okay next step.

2) he took the donation money and donated it to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/2011/04/10000-to-eff.html#comments)...seriously my friend a little research goes miles :/ ....he did the right thing and passed the torch to a more capable ally the EFF. oh and you know he has to pay lawyers because GOD knows they don't do this crap for free...so no sir...he doesn't have a lot of money.

3)again with you not really reading anything even though you keep telling enlong and chazprime to do it :/ - so where am I justifying hackers? all I'm saying is if you punch a hornets nest with the goal of trying to scare them off your property then be aware that you're going to get stung and badly....as for "so what?" for M$ and Nintendo...if you'd READ i already mentioned the fact that they haven't sued a hacker and haven't had their online services attacked...while SONY has and is paying for it...so go ahead and say they don't care while they still give their customers great service (you get RROD M$ fixes X360 FREE with added warranty while SONY charges you $100) and a decent online experience with no hack attacks to their online system with possible CC info revealed/possibly sold....oh you're so right SONY really cares about their customers and M$ and Nintendo are clearly giving theirs the finger....good show

4) just like with iPhone there isn't anything wrong with hacking YOUR hardware...last time I checked I didn't RENT a system from SONY I purchased it to do whatever I want with it...sure it'll void my warranty but that's a price I'm willing to pay to expand the horizons of my machine....nothing wrong with that...you know what IS wrong? Piracy...that's the only issue with hacking a system and even then Piracy isn't hurting the industries as bad as people want you to believe....the music industry is still pumping blood with new music despite being pirated daily...and the video game industry, by seeing M$ and Nintendo still being alive, shows that it's still giving life and isn't dead from Piracy...which I'm not trying to say Piracy is okay...but it's not a death blow to the industry and they can survive.

feel free to arrest the hackers that attacked the PSN...doing justice is always good....sue/arrest PIRATES for stealing games...doing good justice while protecting the industrty....suing a hacker that just hacked his system to make OtherOS and is sharing with the world? injustice in my eyes....he doesn't condone piracy. you can be as skeptical as you want and call him a liar or whatever but I believe him...piracy just comes with the territory so it's not his fault...it's not like he told people to pirate crap as soon as he released the tools...he wanted to deliver OtherOS back and possible create more homebrew for us to make our PS3s more fun...even mentioned he wanted to try and create a type of PSN for people with hacked PS3s so they don't interfere with PSN because he hates online cheaters just like the rest of us.

also your little scenario doesn't make a lick of sense.

the current situation being talked about is the PSN being hacked....which is a crime...and it's wrong...they broke into someone's house pretty much and possibly stole CC info...and they deserve the full extent of the law for doing so.

but GeoHot and other hackers that merely just hacked the PS3 to bring a removed feature don't deserve any punishments....by your logic SONY deserves the punishment since they removed OtherOS...it was a feature that came in the PS3 and some people knowing this bought one for having it (along with other PS3 goodies) and one day SONY basically forced you to update your PS3, removing OtherOS....and if you want to argue the choice of NO PSN with OtherOS vs no OtherOS and PSN then they forced a choice upon you either way...you can tell me nobody used OtherOS or throw some BS SONY gave you to say but in the end out of the billions of people in this world...how do you know if a decent amount really just bought the PS3 to have a cheaper computer? or because they thought it'd be cool to have linux a game system? you don't know.

in the end I stand by my statement....SONY is the reason this is all occuring.

sueing hotz - insulting anonymous by suing hotz to scare hackers - PSN DDoS attack by angry anon - PSN shown to be vulnerable - PSN outage from 2nd PSN attack because of anon showing how easy it is to hack PSN

hope you actually READ this all...because yes I take it as an insult when you tell others to read carefully but then reply to me as if you didn't even bother :/

2011-04-30 08:15:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy

Posts: 3365

i was playing lbp2 all day yesterday on create mode i wasnt bored and wasnt thinking about psn being down

i was creating a death ship with nuclear bombs

has anyone got any suspicious messages yet? or credit card problems yet i havent

look at thishttp://www.newsden.net/sony-playstation-network-psn-2-2-million-credit-cards-on-sale-7945/

2011-04-30 11:43:00

Author:
danger sackboy

Posts: 177

I'll go back to you later today, its kinda late, so I don't really wanna go on a really long post for every single point, I'll just say this.
Do not try to put my words against me if you do not know how to use them, that just looks like a pity attempt to try and break my points, not really food in a debate

There is a difference between not fully reading and misunderstanding, I misunderstood your point, which is a completely different matter, as I DO read any and all points I try to discuss, word by word, EVERY wrd, a lot of times more than once to make sure my answer is appropriate to the specific points.

Also, englong openly admitted to not fully reading my posts because of their length, so yes, I do have a right to say that against him.
I mistook your point of saying that this was Sonys fault because they sued GeoHot, and saw that as you condoning the events because Sony was just doing what they should've.
Thus I drew to conclusions that you were aiming to was that you condoned the hackers behavior, just because Sony was practicing its rights.

Now then, yes, you are right, Geo did donate the money, worst part is, I knew, don't know why i posted that, that WAS wrong of me, i apologize and have changed my point to a more appropriate response, would incline you to read it and respond to it if you would, see if my point is more valid this time.

Also, I don't care if Sony is the best company in the world or a company everyone hates, they are still a corporation, they may have horrible costumer service, but that does not make it any more right to hack them.

Yeah, I don't care about modders, who hack their own consoles and do whatever got their own personal use.
But as you've seen, this opened the gates to online hacking (online cheating.) and piracy.
Once more, yes, I understand its nothing "HUGE" and it doesn't hurt the companies badly, and they COULD ignore it, but the main point is, no matter how insignificant or how pointless it is, as long as its piratinh, its still illegal, I know you say you don't approve of piracy, but saying things like:

and even then Piracy isn't hurting the industries as bad as people want you to believe....the music industry is still pumping blood with new music despite being pirated daily...and the video game industry, by seeing M$ and Nintendo still being alive, shows that it's still giving life and isn't dead from Piracy...which I'm not trying to say Piracy is okay...but it's not a death blow to the industry and they can survive.makes it seem you do "if its minor."
Tho even if you might be right, it is still piracy, I keep repeating this point a lot, yes, but just to make it clear, piracy is piracy, no matter how minor or how little it hurts companies.

he opened the door for hacking the PS3...not the PSN...there's a BIG difference there...the keys are a HARDWARE issue not a software one...which is why SONY couldn't fix it with a FIRMWARE update...which woulda been my counter to your argument if it were true that he opened hacking for the PSN...but he didn't...that was anonymous with their DDoS attacks which displayed how easy it was to hack the PSN...so let's repeat...GeoHot = PS3 hackable, Anonymous = PSN easy hackable...understood? okay next step.May I remind you, that, as I said, it helped "indirectly"?
Sure, he didn't technically said "Here's the PSN's main database, go and hack it!"
With a link to it, he DID start PS3 hacking's outburst, in case you had not noticed, PSN is directly connected to the PS3, open access to one, and you open access to both, even if a bit just to the other, he still helped a bit, and tht's the only point I'm trying to make.

feel free to arrest the hackers that attacked the PSN...doing justice is always good....sue/arrest PIRATES for stealing games...doing good justice while protecting the industrty....suing a hacker that just hacked his system to make OtherOS and is sharing with the world? injustice in my eyes....
Where is the injustice on trying to protect your property?

he doesn't condone piracy. you can be as skeptical as you want and call him a liar or whatever but I believe him...
pb[ So you ARE siding with him, thus you're being biased.[/b]
piracy just comes with the territory so it's not his fault...
You tell everyone how to hack and pirate things, but wash your hands of the damage you'll potentially cause?
Oh sure, that sounds completely reasonable.
it's not like he told people to pirate crap as soon as he released the tools...
A criminal will obviously not speak publicly about criminal activities, of course, that'd be leaving evidence for anyone to see at any time and could be used whenever.
he wanted to deliver OtherOS back and possible create more homebrew for us to make our PS3s more fun...
Yeah, we're having so much fun without PSN, huh?
even mentioned he wanted to try and create a type of PSN for people with hacked PS3s so they don't interfere with PSN because he hates online cheaters just like the rest of us.
Even so, he SHOULD have known the consequences of his actions, you cannot justify a wrong with a right, even giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying he did want to make a "Hacker haven" per say, he did NOT need to post all that stuff for anyone for the taking, he could have worked on it, and recruit whoever he needed, keeping the info as closed as possible.
You cannot tell me he doesn't know that some people would use that information for the worse, because as a hacker himself i do not believe for a second he didn't.

but GeoHot and other hackers that merely just hacked the PS3 to bring a removed feature don't deserve any punishments....
Can you truly believe they had 0 intentions but to "help their brethren"?
Ig they had only modded their PS3, nothing more, i may agree, but after what i'ce seen and what he's done, I do not believe that at all.

by your logic SONY deserves the punishment since they removed OtherOS...it was a feature that came in the PS3 and some people knowing
this bought one for having it (along with other PS3 goodies) and one day SONY basically forced you to update your PS3, removing OtherOS....and if you want to argue the choice of NO PSN with OtherOS vs no OtherOS and PSN then they forced a choice upon you either way...you can tell me nobody used OtherOS or throw some BS SONY gave you to say but in the end out of the billions of people in this world...how do you know if a decent amount really just bought the PS3 to have a cheaper computer? or because they thought it'd be cool to have linux a game system? you don't know.

Again, don't make false accusations and tell me I'm biased or trying to prefect Sony, I am not.
(Just go a page or two back, you will notice I am in no way, biasing towards Sony, and in fact WILL go against it if I see it necessary, so don't try and make it seem I am siding with Sony.)

Now if they REALLY just wanted a cheap computer, they did not need PSN for that, they could as easily not updated,
Sony was well within their rights to do what they did, and in the areas where they announced the other OS feature as part of an AD and such, after the PS3s no longer had it, Sony DID get sued, and payed the costumers their money back AND they kept the PS3, that's enough compensation if you ask me, that no other people did this is they fault, as the ones who really cared took action and it payed off.

Again, I bring it up still, even if it was a horrible thing and no one liked it, its still nothing to justify an attack for.

in the end I stand by my statement....SONY is the reason this is all occuring.
incorrect, people saying such thing are the cause, saying they shouldn't have done that, and rationalizing it into something that seems "just" is what caused this.

sueing hotz - insulting anonymous by suing hotz to scare hackers - PSN DDoS attack by angry anon - PSN shown to be vulnerable - PSN outage from 2nd PSN attack because of anon showing how easy it is to hack PSN

Out of all of that, which was not illegal?
In that list, I only see Sony suing Geo as the only non-illegal act, doesn't matter the reason, doesn't mater how much good they think it'll bring, doesn't matter if it actually did good or not, it is still ILLEGAL, and there's no justifying that.
Insulting Anon?
As far as i know, they're the ones who took it as an insult, what if It wasn't, What if it was just Sony suing the only person they could identify within the hackers that had hacked him and nothing more?
Would that still justify all that's been done?

hope you actually READ this all...because yes I take it as an insult when you tell others to read carefully but then reply to me as if you didn't even bother :/Oh yes, yes I did, and I hope now you realize that trying go use a phrase against someone when you don't know how to use it can come back to bite you, and make you look rather foolish.

Now can we quit this childishness and focus on a good chap-shot less debate?

I must say, your response was rather good, except when you kept trying to push in the "You didn't read" things.
I did not mean to "Ignore" your answer the first time around, I just saw it as a minor point a but derailing from the current situation, so I tried not to make a big fuss about it, hopefully this is a more satisfactory response?

Oh man, would you look at that, I went and fully answered it, not like I felt like sleeping tonight anyways.

Anyhow, as a last independent point, I do wanna announce, so that there are no more misunderstandings of this, I am NOT siding with anyone here, it would be like choosing between to bad choices, I am a neutral party and am trying to stay as neutral as possible, I may side with the law mainly, which may make it look like I'm siding with Sony sometimes, I am not, and I WILL attempt my best to stay as neutral as possible on the situation.

tl;dr: If you need one, you're in the wrong discussion/ debate.

Also, i may have probably made many errors in this post, as I am posting mainly in the dark, I'll try to revise as many errors as possible.

Now then, did you read all that?
(Kidding, kidding, no need for the flames!

)

2011-04-30 12:17:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

1) he opened the door for hacking the PS3...not the PSN...there's a BIG difference there...the keys are a HARDWARE issue not a software one...which is why SONY couldn't fix it with a FIRMWARE update...which woulda been my counter to your argument if it were true that he opened hacking for the PSN...but he didn't...that was anonymous with their DDoS attacks which displayed how easy it was to hack the PSN...so let's repeat...GeoHot = PS3 hackable, Anonymous = PSN easy hackable...understood? A DDoS Attack is not hacking, anonymous for the most part aren't actually hackers - they have the hacking credentials roughly on a par with my mum. Anonymous with their DDoS attack did nothing to lead up to an actual breach of the security system that occured afterwards. Some of them may have been involved in the second issue, they might not, who knows? Probably Anonymous as a whole don't know because of the way they run their so-called unified legion is a shambles. But anyway. We don't actually know what, if anything, "opened up the way for hacking PSN". It's defo not a DDoS attack, though. It could have been the CFWs that helped, although the various bits of anecdotal evidence that they could be used to circumvent certain aspects of PSNs security do not lead directly to a PSN breach, but it's more likely than a DDoS

If we're in any doubt about how a DDoS attack works, as we seem to be, let me give you an analogy that's easily visualised. A DDoS attack is like standing outside of a highstreat shop with a big crowd of people protesting about something the shop has done. Because there is a big crowd outside the shop, it stops customers from entering and the shop is, to all intents and purposes shut down temporarily. Then the crowd goes away and the shop re-opens. There is some news coverage but overall the "attackers" never entered the building, they never took anything, they never did any actual damage...

http://jwarren.co.uk/photos/cache/protest/ukuncut-topshop/2010-12-04_RAW6644_470_thumb.jpg

The PSN hack that has occured is more like someone sneaking into the shop because they found out there was an air vent on the roof that allowed them to gain entry. They get inside, grabbing everything they could get their fingers on, alarms go off but they run away before they get caught. Stuff got stolen, the store is has to patch up the fault in the design that meant an entry was possible damaged, etc. etc.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PJA2_Z9eTAk/TaaxEcc_6xI/AAAAAAAAABo/Ti7Onl3PCfM/s1600/Thief.bmp
(this was the best image I could find, lols)

Do you see how scenario 1 does not lead to scenario 2?

he doesn't condone piracy. you can be as skeptical as you want and call him a liar or whatever but I believe him...piracy just comes with the territory so it's not his fault...it's not like he told people to pirate crap as soon as he released the tools...he wanted to deliver OtherOS back and possible create more homebrew for us to make our PS3s more fun...
I find the fact that people actually believe this crap to be laughable. Consider: I give a load of guns to known terrorists in the hope that they use them for perfectly reasonable sporting exercises. They use them to kill people. I stand by watching saying "well, I had no idea that was going to happen, I certainly didn't condone it, and it's not at all what I wanted to happen, no siree. I hate terrorists, really I do. Oh and look, that one guy did go and use it for sport, so that means I was totally right".

In that (ridiculously overblown and exagerated) scenario am I
a) Completely stupid and naive
b) A smug ****.

George Hots is not stupid. He knows exactly what the primary use for his hacks would be. You don't go out of your way to empower those people who you claim to hate - it's complete bull. He may not be engaged in piracy at all himself, but he's certainly not opposing it in any way. The statements against piracy are a loose PR thing designed to manipulate and win people over to sympathise with him. You need to understand that whilst George Hotz primary skill is being a technical genius, he's also very good at PR and has leveraged this into a kind of celebrity status. Fair play to him, it works. People belive him even when all of the evidence shows he's lying through his teeth.

but GeoHot and other hackers that merely just hacked the PS3 to bring a removed feature [otherOS] Check your history, your timeline is completely scewwed on this one. The removal of otherOS occured after George Hotz announced being close to hacking the PS3. The reasons for removal were initially security threat, then production costs (Sony changed it's mind). Either way, the "Sony started it and these guys were just responding" defense doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny.

As for whether Sony should have been allowed to remove the other OS thing. No they shouldn't. As for whether George Hotz was completely innocent of anything when he published the methods to circumvent security measures on the PS3... Check up on the DMCA. In both cases the guilty party got sued. Problem?

Sony's handled most of this stuff badly, it's true, but to take the completely one sided view that all of this is happening because of Sony is dumb. Two groups were pushing back and forth at each other in a stupid power struggle. It just so happened that sony got KO'd and because of that, we all lost... But yes, we should totally praise the people who dealt the various blows against Sony that ended us in this position. They've fought well for my rights to do things that I never really cared about and now I can't do things that I do care about. Awesome. It's absolutely a step in the right direction for consumers everywhere.

2011-04-30 12:55:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

This is odd.. The PSN went down the day my Exams are over. I knew my teachers were up to this!

I never really believed it was a good idea to not share any credit card information to buy certain things online -they're usually a lot cheaper and SONY is trust-able (?). Yet im glad i never shopped online.

I hope this problem is solved as soon as possible. SONY seems to be doing whatever they can. Call me dumb but i don't really understand what is going on with all the "It's Sony's fault" thing. I've only read the messages at the first and the last pages so i haven't done my research obviously.

Well, at least we can still visit our moon off-line right

? Let's hope we can use this time to create awesome levels to be published when the servers are back on!

2011-04-30 13:30:00

Author:
Mick'o'Mania

Posts: 83

Its no use trying to blame Sony for causing this problem, Ok maybe they were overconfident about their security they are not alone in this belief , they were not the first and they will not be the last business ever to be exposed in this way even major governments and security agencies have had holes exposed in their security.
Lets not forget who the real criminals are, they are the hackers/identity thieves who cause anguish , fear and financial loss to millions of people around the world
every year. praiseing geohotz for doing the right thing by giving the funds for his defence to the eff is only making excuses , if he and anonymous had done the right thing in the first place they would not have hacked ps3/psn at all. By doing so they are no more innocent than the perpetrators of the current hacking attempt.

In short in the eyes of the law they are CRIMINALS pure and simple.

This entire episode reminds me of a line i once read in a book by E.E. (Doc) smith
" What human science can devise, human science can analyse"
in other words no security system can be made 100% secure, it can always be understood, hacked /broken by anyone with sufficent time and/or knowledge.

2011-04-30 13:48:00

Author:
Unknown User

sorry for double posting; I think i've done a little bit more research now. So im going to try to understand what is going on by typing it here as simply as possible;

GeoHot (that's a really cool nickname) is a guy good at hacking. He hacked certain devices to improve certain qualities. He used his skills on SONY's playstation3. He managed to "jailbrake" it and also make "ps2 emulator" work again.

So far so cool. Untill GeoHot shared this information and allowed people to hack their own systems too. As far as i know; "jailbreak" them. Around here i hear the term "jailbreak" used for playing "pirate games". In that case i understand why Sony decided to sue GeoHot;

Piracy makes many industries suffer. Many people believe that the damage done is unimportant, but imagine this;

You make videogames! Awesome ones! To make sure they're aweosme; you use a lot of technologic things. And they cost you money. You need the money to make these games so you make sure these games have a certain price; "Pay me so that i can make these games" right? But be careful! Because if your system that runs your games are not secure enough; your games will be copied! Meaning; each time your "game" is copied; the amount of money you recieve is halved; there fore you may not manage to earn enough money to make new games. So you have to simply make sure your system is aware if the game is original or a "unauthorised" copy. See, you wouldn't be happy if someone just happened to figure out a way into the system and "jailbrake it" therefore disable the security and make the games -which you haven't been paid for although you made them- to run.

That appears to be the case of GeoHot. He was sued but as far as understood he got away by agreeing to "never try to hack the system again". Happy ending...

But wait! That's not it! Your system (yeah you own the system now too, sorry for the inconsistent story) has a very neat property! İt can go online and use the web! That's awesome! Millions of people love this, and use your system, by entering certain necessary information about them. Your system also allows people to "shop online" which isn't a term un-familiar to anyone here right?

Uh-oh; It appears someone has managed to use this property to steal information from other people! Who? Why? Where!? Millions of peoples money are at stake now! What do you do!? First off, shut off that property. No internet for now! You must come up with a solution before you can make sure people's money are not at stake. How about that thief who tried to steal from other people? He/she shall be stopped too!

Now, enough day dreaming, you haven't made any of those games nor own a system. But SONY does (well, SONY doesn't make all the games but still owns PS3 right?).
so; Who is to be blamed?!

GeoHot, for initially proving that PS3 is hackable?
SONY, for trying to make sure their product were not being pirated?
Anonymus Hacker(s)? Who tried to steal information from people?

I personally cannot really link the whole GeoHot incident to the Hackers. He himself said he has nothing to do with the current situation. He might have given away vital information but i don't think he is totally to be blamed. I can't see what SONY did wrong here. People say SONY didn't have good security but, c'mon; we are not talking about the jar that holds our cookies, it's SONY and has better security then -- well -- a lot of things!
SONY is trying to solve the problem. Which is what we appear to want. I'm not going to say im siding with them since i may know less than i think i do -In that case i'd appriciate anyone trying to enlighten me- but im simply not putting the whole blame on SONY.

Sorry for the bad grammer (Im Turk) and i hope i made sense.

2011-04-30 14:35:00

Author:
Mick'o'Mania

Posts: 83

Call me dumb but i don't really understand what is going on with all the "It's Sony's fault" thing. I've only read the messages at the first and the last pages so i haven't done my research obviously.

The argument comes down to: the playstation brand has been being hacked in various ways for the last year or so (at least in high profile ways for the last year or so). They've responded to this in various ways, and the things they did caused the hackers to respond and so things escalated. The assumption* is that this final blow was a continuation of the same thing. Thus, if Sony hadn't have kept on responding to hackers, and that assumption is true, then we wouldn't be here. It's a weird argument with plenty of potential holes to be poked, so if it doesn't make sense to you then whatever

they were not the first and they will not be the last business ever to be exposed in this way even major governments and security agencies have had holes exposed in their security.
Breaches have happened to twitter, google, facebook in the past 12 months or so too.

Research indicates >50% of businesses suffered security breaches in critical applications due to exploitation of vulnerabilities in the past 12 months. linky (http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=7417)

The PSN breach and leak of info isn't even the biggest breach of recent times: See Heartlands scam from 2008/2009 which makes the PSN thing seem quite minor! linky (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/credit/2009-01-20-heartland-credit-card-security-breach_N.htm) linky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Gonzalez#Heartland_Payment_Systems)

Or you could carry on lying to yourself and say that Sony are unique and they let you down, and it was just them who let you down this one time but your info is safe everywhere else... Lies are useful to stop you scaring yourselves witless sometimes

2011-04-30 14:51:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

Sony Corp's No.2 Kazuo Hirai will brief media on Sunday about a huge security breach of its PlayStation Network, the first time an executive of the Japanese electronics giant will publicly address the case, which could prompt global legal actions.

Hirai, in line to succeed CEO Howard Stringer, will hold a news conference in Tokyo at 2:00 p.m. (1 a.m. EDT) on Sony's investigation of the case, its information management system and the schedule to resume services, the firm said in a news release on Saturday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/30/us-sony-idUSTRE73R0Q320110430

2011-04-30 15:47:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

Now we know who #2 works for. lol

2011-04-30 16:02:00

Author:
Knucklerider

Posts: 72

Piracy makes many industries suffer. Many people believe that the damage done is unimportant, but imagine this;

You make videogames! Awesome ones! To make sure they're aweosme; you use a lot of technologic things. And they cost you money. You need the money to make these games so you make sure these games have a certain price; "Pay me so that i can make these games" right? But be careful! Because if your system that runs your games are not secure enough; your games will be copied! Meaning; each time your "game" is copied; the amount of money you recieve is halved; there fore you may not manage to earn enough money to make new games. So you have to simply make sure your system is aware if the game is original or a "unauthorised" copy. See, you wouldn't be happy if someone just happened to figure out a way into the system and "jailbrake it" therefore disable the security and make the games -which you haven't been paid for although you made them- to run.

You are forgetting that many pirates go out and buy the things they pirate. I imagine they see them as a "trial" service. That's not to say all do, but the revenue is not halved because of this, and not all pirates would have bought the thing anyway. I'm not condoning piracy, but you're example is flawed.

Also, this isn't Sony's fault, as we have no idea how secure the system actually was. There are always ways to hack things and it's wrong to blame them. However, this doesn't change my anger of no Other OS or PS2 compatibility. Sure, I have a computer and a PS2, but I'd really like one central system to do everything (which the PS3 claims it does).

And I see Geo's point. He found a legit way to make the console better, so he had to weigh that against potential piracy. His anger at Sony clearly swayed him. And Sony should have worked on patching the holes instead of destroying Other OS.

Anyway, here's to hoping there will be PS2 BC with the patched system, though that's a pipe dream.

2011-04-30 18:39:00

Author:
Fading-Dream

Posts: 164

@Silver - no need for a TL;DR but for the record and you KNOW this...just adding a "just kidding" doesn't make it any less annoying or insulting about what you say...because in my head I can already tell you purposely say all that since you spent your "sleepy" time typing it out and are now hiding behind the "just kidding" to make sure that if anything goes down you're the "nice" one for just kidding while I take it seriously. :/

oh and I'm not "wrong" in my discussion when you try to reason for me certain things like people wanting a cheap computer with the PS3....just because your mindset works differently then mine doesn't mean everyone's mindset is the same as yours...in a world with over 2 billion people you don't know every single person and it's silly to think you can speak for 77 million PSN users.

also I'll stop "putting words against you" when you don't try to sound condescending to people just because you THINK they don't read everything...enlong admitted to you he didn't but chazprime never said so IIRC...because me doing what I did was just mocking what you did...you may not think so...but I wouldn't have bothered if you hadn't had done it to them.

@RTM - seriously? I'm not going to listen to that analogy because that's just messed up...there's a difference between hacking a device/security system and giving guns to people with the intent of doing harm...so excuse me for trying to ignore that analogy as messed up as it is.

in that situation all I can say is sure GeoHot knew the risks of piracy just like anyone...but just like my view on piracy I think he just saw it as minor damage knowing how big blu-ray PS3 files are in that only really serious pirates would most likely pirate PS3 games and that wouldn't be enough to hurt the industry. in that situation he knew piracy but thought it was worth the risk since piracy doesn't hurt the industry as bad as people make it seem...yes it's bad...but it's not a death blow.

also I'll believe whoever shows me evidence...I have more evidence to show SONY lies more then GeoHot so naturally I'd believe more of what GeoHot believes then the company that removes features and gives me BS reasons for why they remove them when the real reasons are out there.

but seriously do me a favor and don't try to make me out to be a hacker-lover....I in no way am completely siding with one side...if anything both sides are at the wrong and we all get effed in the A anyways....but in my eyes SONY started this whole thing.

like I'll keep saying "you don't punch a hornets nest and not expect to get stung badly"....

in the end hackers, just like anything else that we have multiples of in this world, will never disappear...when one falls one takes their place...they are destructible and, like hornets, do the most damage when provoked. does this mean I support the hackers? NO!...it's just my way of saying that you shouldn't try to stop what can't be stopped...unless they start doing REAL damage like killing human beings...because hackers mostly are anonymous...you don't know who they are and we don't even know how many there are.

just because my arguments point against SONY it doesn't mean I condone piracy or the attacks on the PSN...I'm in no way siding with hackers or SONY...I'm just throwing out my views on the situation.

This link show's another person with the same view I have (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/34348/Opinion_PlayStation_Brand_Faces_Uncertain_Future.p hp) <----but like I say I don't support the piracy or the PSN attacks just because of my view on SONY

EDIT: looks like we may FINALLY get some REAL answers about this whole thing...but I'm not holding my breath (http://www.gamepur.com/news/3528-sony-hold-press-conference-tomorrow-regarding-psn-outage.html)

2011-04-30 19:11:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy

Posts: 3365

2011-04-30 20:59:00

Author:
Spider-Jew

Posts: 1090

Yes, but Sony's car didn't even have windows, left the keys inside, and didn't even bother to place a steering wheel lock, they didn't get them as it would cost them money and effort, even tho they could've done it and it would've prevented the now on the loose stolen car/ User Information.

I think this is the point that a couple of us have raised that you are still missing. Your analogy would be more accurate if you were to imagine that the car in question was inside a locked garage, not just sitting out in the open. The way Sony stores their data might not be the safest, but you can't make judgements on how good their outside intrusion prevention is until the details are released (if they ever are). Someone still broke in to get at it. For all we know, Sony's network might be protected like an electronic Fort Knox.

...not give access to all the information from one point, giving the hacker, the ability to access all the information by simply accessing said point, they should have divided it by region, which would minimize the damage in such situation...

From a security standpoint, it's actual safer - and common practice - to store sensitive data in one location. Easier to monitor that way.

Can we have a security professional from this site share some helpful insight as to whether you believe Sony's security measures were sufficient in stopping hackers as compared to today's standards. It is too easy to blame Sony just because it was their infrastructure that had been hacked. Heck, even the PS3 had state of the art security protection and even that was compromised within good time. If someone can provide us with details of how secure PSN's infrastructure was, we can better ascertain whether Sony should be held responsible or not. I mean its not my fault if my armored car has ultra-lock windows/doors and a steering wheel lock but someone still manages to steal it.

I know one in real life and talked to him quite a bit about it over the past week. His opinion is that this has been blown out of all proportion, but what's going to happen next is that Sony's external and internal security are going to be scrutinized, and if they are found to have been below standards in either category, they might be liable for the fraudulent charges and possibly facing fines from the credit card security agencies.

He referenced the TJ Maxx hack that happened a couple of years ago where some 40+million credit card numbers were stolen, and the company subsequently hit with massive fines from the SCI due to shoddy internal and external security (someone actually waited outside the data center and pulled the data from an unsecured wifi network(!)).

2011-04-30 21:28:00

Author:
Chazprime

Posts: 587

Any chance all this arguing could be taken to PMs? Because it might make it hard to find new info that pops up in this thread to be added to the OP. hehehe...arguing and I say PMs...looks like PMS and you guys keep arguing. Man I am awesome. Seriously though, stop arguing, it makes my heart cry tears of sadness and despair.

Spider-Jew is right. I can't even see the useful info within the thread. I really think someone should start a new fresh thread. If anyone is able to do this for us without it being deleted that would be great. This thread is a mess you can't find anything. We dont mind some opinions and some debate but this is getting tone too much. Thanks if anyone can help.

2011-04-30 22:44:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

Hey Peeps, I thought you would like to know that Sony are holding a press conference which will take place on the 01/05/2011 regarding the psn outage. Hopefully good news will come from this. Whats your thoughts?.... ( Confrence has now passed please vist http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2011/...ble-this-week/ ) for further information. (thanks to RtooDee2 for link).

2011-04-30 22:46:00

Author:
Special_D_

Posts: 57

Something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4PGBSptYCI

2011-04-30 22:50:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

I know one in real life and talked to him quite a bit about it over the past week. His opinion is that this has been blown out of all proportion, but what's going to happen next is that Sony's external and internal security are going to be scrutinized, and if they are found to have been below standards in either category, they might be liable for the fraudulent charges and possibly facing fines from the credit card security agencies.

He referenced the TJ Maxx hack that happened a couple of years ago where some 40+million credit card numbers were stolen, and the company subsequently hit with massive fines from the SCI due to shoddy internal and external security (someone actually waited outside the data center and pulled the data from an unsecured wifi network(!)).

Hmm, that's interesting to know. Of course Sony wasn't as negligent as TJ Maxx in this case but it will be interesting to know if Sony's network security matched up with their "state of the art" PS3 security. I see that the person who coordinated the hacking in the TJ Maxx case got 20 years in federal prison for his crimes. I wonder what the PSN hackers will get seeing that they have the feds on their backs.

2011-04-30 22:56:00

Author:
Enlong3

Posts: 357

This stuff is scaring me, someone could have all of our info.. IT COULD BE A CREEPY OLD MAN FOR SACKS SAKE! Someone PUH-LEASE say something to make me feel better about all of this.

2011-04-30 22:59:00

Author:
iTriangle

Posts: 125

Spider-Jew is right. I can't even see the useful info within the thread. I really think someone should start a new fresh thread. If anyone is able to do this for us without it being deleted that would be great. This thread is a mess you can't find anything. We dont mind some opinions and some debate but this is getting tone too much. Thanks if anyone can help.

The first post is updated with all the useful info.

2011-04-30 23:03:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

This stuff is scaring me, someone could have all of our info.. IT COULD BE A CREEPY OLD MAN FOR SACKS SAKE! Someone PUH-LEASE say something to make me feel better about all of this.
The Department of Homeland Security (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_homeland_security) is helping Sony investigate:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/04/30/did-sony-shut-down-psn-to-combat-piracy.aspx

This debacle has apparently gotten big enough for the government to take notice, as the Department of Homeland Security is now investigating the matter. "The Department of Homeland Security is aware of the recent cyber intrusion to Sony's PlayStation Network and Qriocity music service," says spokesman Chris Ortman. "DHS' U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team (CERT) is working with law enforcement, international partners and Sony to assess the situation."

Similar government departments in Australia (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/04/28/3202046.htm) are also looking into the matter.

EDIT: Oh wait, that's in the first post too.

2011-04-30 23:04:00

Author:
warlord_evil

Posts: 4193

Ahh, thank you. I was really getting worried for a second. My debit card seems to be fine for now, there's hardly any money in it anyway, haha.

Hold on.. What about Debit cards.. and the UK?!

EDIT: Fixed the double post. :3

2011-04-30 23:07:00

Author:
iTriangle

Posts: 125

Think about it.

77 MILLION people's info was stolen. There is a very slim chance that they could use any of our information. And even if they DO, they worst they can do is use your address as the billing address, which you could easily decline. So all we have to do now is wait until PSN is online.

:SH:

2011-04-30 23:11:00

Author:
ThePineapplizer

Posts: 769

Blah~ I can't wait till this is all over, there will be a huge level increase- I can't wait for the Portal 2 levels! BRING 'EM ON, COMMUNITY!

2011-04-30 23:14:00

Author:
iTriangle

Posts: 125

Yes, nothing to do now but wait...

2011-04-30 23:18:00

Author:
UberOrbPS

Posts: 290

This is starting to depress me.

Oh and certain people need to step down from their high horses.

Don't quote me on this..

2011-04-30 23:31:00

Author:
Maxi

Posts: 1176

The first post is updated with all the useful info.

Thanks I think you've said this before sorry for forgetting if you have. I just think people are waiting for this to end. As of right now I'm not worried about my info. I've changed everything and I think I'm safe. Its the weekend and I would love to play some online. If things are running by Tuesday I am gonna start getting annoyed. I thought I cam handle a month of this at one point but I can't. On the other hand I give props to the fact they are taking their time to do things right. So I guess in the end if things get back up and going like normal I'll forget this ever happened.

2011-05-01 00:03:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/93295/psn-outage-day-9-5-sony-hit-with-second-class-action-lawsuit/

2011-05-01 02:44:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/93295/psn-outage-day-9-5-sony-hit-with-second-class-action-lawsuit/

Man, I wonder how many other people are going to do this? I don't imagine they will get far with it, but who knows.

2011-05-01 02:51:00

Author:
Spider-Jew

Posts: 1090

Sony liveblog conference link
http://www.irwebcasting.com/live/110501/02/index.html

2011-05-01 05:43:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

Sony liveblog conference link
http://www.irwebcasting.com/live/110501/02/index.html

Thank you sir. I was just trying to find this. Not much longer to wait now.

2011-05-01 05:44:00

Author:
Spider-Jew

Posts: 1090

He seemed sorry...

2011-05-01 06:02:00

Author:
BonBonBoi

Posts: 246

It's online from 3 minutes.
I expect live seppukus LOL

2011-05-01 06:03:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

Here is info about the press conference if you don't want to watch it: http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/04/30/press-release-some-playstation-network-and-qriocity-services-to-be-available-this-week/

Tokyo, May 1, 2011 – Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE) and Sony Network Entertainment International (SNEI, the company) announced they will shortly begin a phased restoration by region of PlayStation?Network and Qriocity™ services, beginning with gaming, music and video services to be turned on. The company also announced both a series of immediate steps to enhance security across the network and a new customer appreciation program to thank its customers for their patience and loyalty.

Following a criminal cyber-attack on the company’s data-center located in San Diego, California, U.S.A., SNEI quickly turned off the PlayStation Network and Qriocity services, engaged multiple expert information security firms over the course of several days and conducted an extensive audit of the system. Since then, the company has implemented a variety of new security measures to provide greater protection of personal information. SNEI and its third-party experts have conducted extensive tests to verify the security strength of the PlayStation Network and Qriocity services. With these measures in place, SCE and SNEI plan to start a phased rollout by region of the services shortly. The initial phase of the rollout will include, but is not limited to, the following:

Restoration of Online game-play across the PlayStation?3 (PS3) and PSP? (PlayStation?Portable) systems
-This includes titles requiring online verification and downloaded games
Access to Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity for PS3/PSP for existing subscribers
Access to account management and password reset
Access to download un-expired Movie Rentals on PS3, PSP and MediaGo
PlayStation?Home
Friends List
Chat Functionality

Working closely with several outside security firms, the company has implemented significant security measures to further detect unauthorized activity and provide consumers with greater protection of their personal information. The company is also creating the position of Chief Information Security Officer, directly reporting to Shinji Hasejima, Chief Information Officer of Sony Corporation, to add a new position of expertise in and accountability for customer data protection and supplement existing information security personnel. The new security measures implemented include, but are not limited to, the following:

Added automated software monitoring and configuration management to help defend against new attacks
Enhanced levels of data protection and encryption
Enhanced ability to detect software intrusions within the network, unauthorized access and unusual activity patterns
Implementation of additional firewalls

The company also expedited an already planned move of the system to a new data center in a different location that has been under construction and development for several months. In addition, PS3 will have a forced system software update that will require all registered PlayStation Network users to change their account passwords before being able to sign into the service. As an added layer of security, that password can only be changed on the same PS3 in which that account was activated, or through validated email confirmation, a critical step to help further protect customer data.
The company is conducting a thorough and on-going investigation and working with law enforcement to track down and prosecute those responsible for the illegal intrusion.
“This criminal act against our network had a significant impact not only on our consumers, but our entire industry. These illegal attacks obviously highlight the widespread problem with cyber-security. We take the security of our consumers’ information very seriously and are committed to helping our consumers protect their personal data. In addition, the organization has worked around the clock to bring these services back online, and are doing so only after we had verified increased levels of security across our networks,” said Kazuo Hirai, Executive Deputy President, Sony Corporation. “Our global audience of PlayStation Network and Qriocity consumers was disrupted. We have learned lessons along the way about the valued relationship with our consumers, and to that end, we will be launching a customer appreciation program for registered consumers as a way of expressing our gratitude for their loyalty during this network downtime, as we work even harder to restore and regain their trust in us and our services.”

Complimentary Offering and “Welcome Back” Appreciation Program
While there is no evidence at this time that credit card data was taken, the company is committed to helping its customers protect their personal data and will provide a complimentary offering to assist users in enrolling in identity theft protection services and/or similar programs. The implementation will be at a local level and further details will be made available shortly in each region.
The company will also rollout the PlayStation Network and Qriocity “Welcome Back” program, to be offered worldwide, which will be tailored to specific markets to provide our consumers with a selection of service options and premium content as an expression of the company’s appreciation for their patience, support and continued loyalty.
Central components of the “Welcome Back” program will include:

Each territory will be offering selected PlayStation entertainment content for free download. Specific details of this content will be announced in each region soon.
All existing PlayStation Network customers will be provided with 30 days free membership in the PlayStation Plus premium service. Current members of PlayStation Plus will receive 30 days free service.
Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity subscribers (in countries where the service is available) will receive 30 days free service.

Additional “Welcome Back” entertainment and service offerings will be rolled out over the coming weeks as the company returns the PlayStation Network and Qriocity services to the quality standard users have grown to enjoy and strive to exceed those exceptions.
SNEI will continue to reinforce and verify security for transactions before resuming the PlayStation?Store and other Qriocity operations, scheduled for this month.

2011-05-01 06:16:00

Author:
Spider-Jew

Posts: 1090

Much more than they had to do.

2011-05-01 06:31:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

Much more than they had to do.

Agreed. One thing I am curious about though, they mentioned having to change your password on the PS3 that you created the account. But then I thought they said something about being able to change it through email or something? I hope so, because I don't have my original PS3, as I am sure many other are in the same boat. Just curious if anyone caught what they said after?

Wait, here is what they said:

As an added layer of security, that password can only be changed on the same PS3 in which that account was activated, or through validated email confirmation, a critical step to help further protect customer data.
OK, there we go, question answered to anyone who is worried.

2011-05-01 06:34:00

Author:
Spider-Jew

Posts: 1090

Well, my JAP and US accounts opened with fake emails are gone

Still yeah, I need the email verification since I deleted my account from my first PS3, still owning and working but completely formatted.

2011-05-01 06:41:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

I feel sorry for Sony.

Can't stand it when I go to the blog on Sony's site and so many hating Sony and threatening to sell their PS3, lol. Not Sony's fault, and the counter argument people have
to that is yes it is their fault for not having better security. The thing is Sony's security was not worse than industry standard. The difference is Sony was the target of an elite hacker or hackers. So these are the type of hackers you might see more often in a movie, the kind that can break into a government's network infrastructure. So now Sony has to spend a lot of money to go the extra mile with security, which is only neccesary due to the fact that they have recently been the target of elite hackers.

Therefor those people that act that way towards Sony should be angry at the hackers doing this.

Cannot wait until all of this is over and I hope the new security measures will be good enough against the world's top hackers. I hope Sony will recover and return to the state they were in before losing all this money over this and players. I'm sure they will.

Anyways, just stopped by LBPC to post my thoughts on this and see what others were saying.

2011-05-01 08:11:00

Author:
Hana_Kami

Posts: 393

Kinda Unrelated:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=302

:kz: Found this, when I was looking at my favorite Webcomics.

2011-05-01 08:17:00

Author:
IronSkullKid99

Posts: 515

I feel sorry for Sony.

2011-05-01 08:50:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2011/05/01/some-playstation-network-and-qriocity-services-to-be-available-this-week/

Its good news people, check this link.

2011-05-01 09:43:00

Author:
RtooDee2

Posts: 175

Seeing as debating is over, back to regular posting status. ;p

Anywho:

"Each territory will be offering selected PlayStation entertainment content for free download. Specific details of this content will be announced in each region soon.
All existing PlayStation Network customers will be provided with 30 days free membership in the PlayStation Plus premium service. Current members of PlayStation Plus will receive 30 days free service.
Music Unlimited powered by Qriocity subscribers (in countries where the service is available) will receive 30 days free service."

I for one was just thinking of suggesting free PS+ for a certain amount of time as one of the things the planned to do, and BAM, there it is.

+Some free downloads, nice.

I for one await the return of PSN now, that, if they're still within the last expected deadline, should be up by Tuesday!

Sure, I'm not exactly happy with Sony, and now I will definitely not place any true info into anything Sony related (Not like I would've or I do anywhere, but, you get my point.

) but eh, not like this is the first ever major company eff up in history of gaming, or history in general. xD

2011-05-01 10:40:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

So Yaru, you prove the point that lots of people enraged too much, before everything was made clear.

Nothing was screwed as bigly as media shouted with a despicable doom and gloomy attitude.
Sony didn't left all datas in the spotlight to be taken and we're talking about the biggest hack (CRIME) in history.
Sony will lose a big amount of money for people selfishness when they shouldn't have.
Anyway, it seems that we have an happy ending.

2011-05-01 10:54:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

I'm astounded by Sony's choice of action here!

I'm terribly impressed that they are doing so much to apologise to their consumers, considering how much financial loss that will mean to them. Yes, I am aware that Sony are worth a heck of a lot, and have some money to spend

But still, this gesture shouldn't be underappreciated.

I heartily agree with Hana, and hope that Sony can recover quickly from this blow.

2011-05-01 11:27:00

Author:
rialrees

Posts: 1015

) but eh, not like this is the first ever major company eff up in history of gaming, or history in general. xD

I think the free month of ps plus is the best things. There are some people who got plus before and hated it, they were disappointed. Well I've always loved the downloads they offered and the features they have included have been great. I think that at least 25 percent of the people they give ps pus a month to will stay be because they enjoy it so much. I think there shouldn't be any free downloads instead 15 dollar credit for anything you'd like. Also in the article they don't mention anything about having online gaming back, do they? I may have missed it.

2011-05-01 12:24:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

I think the free month of ps plus is the best things. There are some people who got plus before and hated it, they were disappointed. Well I've always loved the downloads they offered and the features they have included have been great. I think that at least 25 percent of the people they give ps pus a month to will stay be because they enjoy it so much. I think there shouldn't be any free downloads instead 15 dollar credit for anything you'd like. Also in the article they don't mention anything about having online gaming back, do they? I may have missed it.

Restoration of Online game-play across the PlayStation?3 (PS3) and PSP? (PlayStation?Portable) systems

Unfortunatly giving out cash is much more expensive than working out a deal with a few small developers so it'd never happen (also exploitable by all of us with multiple accounts).

2011-05-01 12:49:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

http://ie.ps3.ign.com/articles/116/1165399p1.html
30 Free days of PS+ for everyone

Sony are awesome

2011-05-01 13:06:00

Author:
jeperty

Posts: 486

I'm not fussed by freebies, because the downtime was hardly sony's fault. That said, who could decline free stuff

2011-05-01 13:08:00

Author:
Radishlord

Posts: 706

Okay, let's see...

Sony announced its "Welcome Back" program worldwide, giving all existing PlayStation Network users 30 days of PlayStation Plus for free.
Great!

My account will get a yellow + on it for 30 days! If they even get to care about third-world countries, of course!

Sony will also provide "selected PlayStation entertainment content" for free to download.
Any bets it will be mostly stuff that nobody wanted anyway?

One of the major services that won't be available initially is the PlayStation Store.
You know what would be funny? If the store only went back 30 days after PSN gets back on! I can actually see that happening, maybe 25 days...

Well, at least they are compensating it fully for NA/EU/Japan users.

2011-05-01 13:39:00

Author:
gdn001

Posts: 5891

I hope you guys realise that most games made free by PS+ require the subscription to continue playing them :/ Sure you might download a free game but you've only got 30 days to play it.

2011-05-01 13:39:00

Author:
MrFunctionality

Posts: 637

I hope you guys realise that most games made free by PS+ require the subscription to continue playing them :/ Sure you might download a free game but you've only got 30 days to play it.
Your ruining the happiness :kz:
Any of you read the first comment on that link?

2011-05-01 13:48:00

Author:
jeperty

Posts: 486

Sony mentioned having the PSN store back online near the end of May..... So yeah. Maybe they will start giving out the PlayStation Plus stuff whenever the store comes back online, or not. This is really ironic for me though.... I finally saved enough money for a PSP game ( Yeah I know very cheap but still) and the area where the UMD disc goes in is broken meaning I can only get downloadable games

then the next day PSN went down and I was left speechless (In a bad way)

2011-05-01 14:09:00

Author:
Unknown User

Any of you read the first comment on that link?
Do you mean this?

XBOX LIVE members wish PSN members a happy return to online gaming. You guys really suffered this past week. Sony's compensation seems Ideal.

Gotta admit, that's one of the only Xbox users that have ever been nice to PS3 users. He has given respect, and I respect him back for it. I would have thought the average Xbox user would have trolled the hell out of the article like this:

Nah mate dat iz not fairz we dornt git nuffin dat is not far omy god wtf stff u psn you is not fair wats about use xbl users we iz bettr den the psn users LOVE US i h8 u you stupid.
Here's a translation:

No, mate that is not fair. We do not get anything. That is not fair. Oh my God WTF stuff you, PSN, that is not fair, what about us XBL users? We are better than the PSN users. LOVE US! I hate you you are stupid.

2011-05-01 14:12:00

Author:
Jakest123

Posts: 319

Wait... if the store won't be available right away... then how are we supposed to use PS+? O_o

2011-05-01 14:15:00

Author:
RockSauron

Posts: 10882

regarding the PSN's online capabilities! As stated in the article below, they have released the best news ive heard all month:
FREE 30DAY PS PLUS ACCOUNT UPGRADE for all users as a "Welcome Back!" with the return of PSN servers, starting as stated "...sometime next week."

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/712289/sony-discusses-new-plans-for-playstation-network/#readmore

THANK YOU SONY!

2011-05-01 14:21:00

Author:
XELLAmunster

Posts: 89

Wait... if the store won't be available right away... then how are we supposed to use PS+? O_o

Correct me if i am wrong but i think you can only download PS+ from the store. They didn't say exactly when the store would be up, but i hope it doesn't take till the end of May just to get back up .

I guess the real good news is that we can get back to online play; i haven't chatted with my PSN buddies in a while and LBP2 can get back to normal

2011-05-01 14:31:00

Author:
Rpg Maker

Posts: 877

Unfortunatly giving out cash is much more expensive than working out a deal with a few small developers so it'd never happen (also exploitable by all of us with multiple accounts).

Ya I figured that but want sucks is own almost every game in the store. It'd be cool to at least have a choice.

2011-05-01 14:31:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

Eurgh, can't believe I'm reading a few ungrateful posts. Disappointed.

2011-05-01 14:53:00

Author:
ryryryan

Posts: 3767

Anyway, PSN store shouldn't be up together with the PS gaming network

2011-05-01 14:54:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

Ya I figured that but want sucks is own almost every game in the store. It'd be cool to at least have a choice.

They may do what MS did when they gave a free game away after some down time and reimburse the cost to those that have already bought it.

I hope you guys realise that most games made free by PS+ require the subscription to continue playing them :/ Sure you might download a free game but you've only got 30 days to play it.

30 days with stuff I'm not going to buy is better than 0 days.

2011-05-01 14:56:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

I actually found out that the group anonymous publicly stated that they have nothing to do with it this time, and they can't even figure out how it go hacked, but they did mention that maybe one of their members may have gone rogue and done something by himself, but all-in-all, they don't know what the heck is going on.

2011-05-01 15:12:00

Author:
theonlybub

Posts: 690

2011-05-01 15:21:00

Author:
FlipMeister

Posts: 631

Wow. I'm off for about a week or two and then i come back and see that this has happened. World changes fast. How comes it always takes one person to mess it up for all of us?

2011-05-01 16:04:00

Author:
TREMIC1

Posts: 263

I notice a lot of talk about the PS3 users, and no love for the PSP. Why no love for the PSP, Sony?

2011-05-01 16:09:00

Author:
BlackWolfe

Posts: 299

All existing PlayStation Network customers will be provided with 30 days free membership in the PlayStation Plus premium service.

Looks like I will be downloading a lot of games in the next 30 days.

2011-05-01 16:10:00

Author:
Silver39

Posts: 1703

I notice a lot of talk about the PS3 users, and no love for the PSP. Why no love for the PSP, Sony?

Because the PS3 is their main system. The network includes the PSP and PS3, but the PSP is an extremely small part of their whole network and a lot of games have small online features thus making compensation only for that system useless. I assume PSP users will still get some of the "entertainment" compensation though.

2011-05-01 16:13:00

Author:
WoodburyRaider

Posts: 1651

so happy for this, ive been really wanting som online play for some time

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6310961.html?tag=topslot;thumb;2

that free week of psn plus will be fun.
"burn, zombie, burn!"

discuss with cake

2011-05-01 16:19:00

Author:
Unknown User

Looks like I will be downloading a lot of games in the next 30 days.

You'll love ps plus. You can back up all your game saves on cloud. Also you can set a time for your PS3 to turn on and it will automatically download game patches so you don't have to. You will really like when you turn on your ps3 and there waiting for you is some demo or beta ready to play already installed. There are a ton of games and Dlc that is discounted, tons of free mini games and ps3 games. I just got digger fr free last month. Wipeout has been there along with some other great games. The 1 he trial of a game is cool to. You just download it and play the first hour. If you like it buy it and it'll be there right where you left off trophies and everything. Some people don't like ps plus but I always have. At first it sucked but over time they've gotten better with what they offer. I said it earlier that I think a few people will buy it after they try it. I think they should give the free month and also give a nice discount to people that want to sign up. Soon there will be a feature for auto downloads on demos. Like if you are waiting for a demo to come out and you don't have the time to wait for it to download, you just set it up in advance and then there it is ready to go when it comes out.

I do think they can improve in some spots. When they announced it at E3 they promised something with movies. So far I haven't seen anything as to what was promised. All in all it's a very good program. There are peope that complain about the price but now they can't cuz they can try it free and see for themselves. I reccommend downloading even if you've tried it in the past and didn't like it , just because it's gotten so much better over time.

2011-05-01 16:24:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

It's actually a full month of free PS+. It's pretty cool.

And I wonder what that free "entertainment download" will be.

2011-05-01 16:42:00

Author:
Unknown User

Do you mean this?

Gotta admit, that's one of the only Xbox users that have ever been nice to PS3 users. He has given respect, and I respect him back for it. I would have thought the average Xbox user would have trolled the hell out of the article like this:

Here's a translation:
Great translation! Have a cookie

2011-05-01 16:51:00

Author:
jeperty

Posts: 486

2011-05-01 16:58:00

Author:
Plasmavore

Posts: 1913

2011-05-01 17:29:00

Author:
D-E-S_87

Posts: 148

Yeah, now I will download ALL the PSN + free content, like WipeOut HD, etc.

2011-05-01 17:29:00

Author:
AbdiHMA

Posts: 86

Updated first post with latest press release.

2011-05-01 17:35:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

Let's just hope the LBP servers don't explode with everyone publishing new levels.

Ditto with the PSN - I know everyone's gonna be on it the second it's up and running. I hope their servers can handle it and don't crash

2011-05-01 17:52:00

Author:
UberOrbPS

Posts: 290

I notice a lot of talk about the PS3 users, and no love for the PSP. Why no love for the PSP, Sony?

They are basically offering free PS+ Membership for a month plus other services that aren't fully disclosed yet... Not entirely sure how that's central to the PS3? PS+ members get access to offers on games for both platforms.

2011-05-01 18:10:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

I'm sure that many people who don't have PSN accounts would be very reluctant to create one now. I know I would be.
Also, does anyone know if the hackers would have been able to access cloud saves if they wanted to? I haven't used that feature myself because I'm not a PSN Plus subscriber.

You know good question but I have no clue. Even if they did though I wouldn't care because for some reason I just don't trust it. It's just a backup for my backup. If it's you r only backup and they ever lost the saves I'd be so upset. Speaking of that can you imagine what this would have been like if Sony lost all of our trophies and download lists including any record of anything we've ever purchased. On top of everything that happened that would have been te breaking pony for many if the other fiasco wasn't enough already.

2011-05-01 18:10:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

Hopefully the service will be restored in a couple of days. I'm willing to access the Community levels!

2011-05-01 19:17:00

Author:
GU1LLE8

Posts: 25

I hope you guys realise that most games made free by PS+ require the subscription to continue playing them :/ Sure you might download a free game but you've only got 30 days to play it.

This may be true, but you get to keep the trophies

2011-05-01 20:55:00

Author:
anoken

Posts: 1654

This may be true, but you get to keep the trophies

For those of us who care for such virtual achievements

2011-05-01 21:26:00

Author:
WoodburyRaider

Posts: 1651

Haha, I don't understand why that xBox fanboy is expecting Sony to give people on XBL freebies.
It's totally fair.
They haven't siffered in the slightest and XBL has nothing to do with this whole affair. XD

What fanboy said that? If you're talking about Jakest's comment, you realize it was made up right?

2011-05-01 21:27:00

Author:
Whalio Cappuccino

Posts: 5250

This may be true, but you get to keep the trophies

and in the end that's what REALLY matters...not having a REAL free game (only stupid rentals...1st and last time i purchase PSN+) or anything like that...just virtual epeen to shake at other people's faces :/

....

2011-05-01 21:44:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy

Posts: 3365

Right after I decided to take my credit card information off for security reasons, THIS happens!
I am among the lucky ones. Me and my money have been saved by divine intervention. Hallelujah!

2011-05-01 22:24:00

Author:
captain sack

Posts: 88

"Yay".. an extra motnh of ps plus and probable crappy free games..
Wont do much about all the trust that is gone.

2011-05-01 23:13:00

Author:
Luos_83

Posts: 2136

Yeah, now I will download ALL the PSN + free content, like WipeOut HD, etc.

Just to make this clear, PSN+ content is only available to "purchase" for a month (though you can still redownload later if you're subscribed). So I don't think WipeOut HD will be downloadable.

2011-05-01 23:25:00

Author:
Rogar

Posts: 2284

Okay, let's see...

Great!

My account will get a yellow + on it for 30 days! If they even get to care about third-world countries, of course!

If I remember correctly, "all PSN accounts" means, well...all PSN accounts, no matter where they're from.
They DID say ALL PSN users.
Not to mention they got a lot of freebies and discounts, so even if you're not in for the freebies, if there was stuff you wanted to buy, now you may be able to get them cheaper.
Plus the clud save system whatever, sure, you loose access to it after PS+ expires, but you have a permanent back up of all you tt up to this point, no matter what happens, even if you won't have immediate access to it.

Any bets it will be mostly stuff that nobody wanted anyway?

Perhaps, perhaps not, but really, if you're already expecting that, at least you won't be disappointing if it happens, and well surprised if its good stuff.
9not to mention If so I'll be quoting you on this.

)

You know what would be funny? If the store only went back 30 days after PSN gets back on! I can actually see that happening, maybe 25 days...

So how do you plan on downloading PS+ without the store anyways?
...
He's the hacker!

Well, at least they are compensating it fully for NA/EU/Japan users.

Now man, come on, I'd understand it from people that really got affected from this, but truthfully answer, how did it affect YOU?
Did you really loose anything else other than online gameplay? xD

I hope you guys realise that most games made free by PS+ require the subscription to continue playing them :/ Sure you might download a free game but you've only got 30 days to play it.

A - Psh, full out games can be easily finished in a week, PS+ games can easly be finished in a month, if not ALL, at least a few, not to mention not everyone's interested in all most likely.

B - Still freebies, you know? xD
For those of us who can't buy anything online, this is really good, sure, you guys that can buy whatever whenever may not care as much, but for us, its kinda of a big deal.

Wait... if the store won't be available right away... then how are we supposed to use PS+? O_o

Correct me if i am wrong but i think you can only download PS+ from the store. They didn't say exactly when the store would be up, but i hope it doesn't take till the end of May just to get back up .
I guess the rea good news is that we can get back to online play; i haven't chatted with my PSN buddies in a while and LBP2 can get back to normal

^That, also to answer gdn's 'What if PS Store is back a month after" comment.

Ya I figured that but want sucks is own almost every game in the store. It'd be cool to at least have a choice.

Now, not trying to be rude here, but why do people keep thinking people should change everything because of one person, without trying to think in the more general approach of things and what they'd have to do for that.
Besides, multiple accounts = each able to get different stuff.

Eurgh, can't believe I'm reading a few ungrateful posts. Disappointed.

As contradictorily as I may sound with this, they ARE also within their right to be "ungrateful," some people may indeed be affected more than others with this, or maybe not, the main point is, if they don't want to be "grateful," then let them, they're most likely gonna take the "compensation" and do nothing anyways, just like many, since they don't REALLY care that much about it either anyways.

30 days with stuff I'm not going to buy is better than 0 days.

Aeyup.

I notice a lot of talk about the PS3 users, and no love for the PSP. Why no love for the PSP, Sony?

Because its at the bottom of the videogame sales chain, its the least sold console, weather full on or handheld, and only a lesser number of people play it or care enough about it to do anything about that.
unfair?
Maybe.
Are you gonna try and do something to change it?
That's up to you.

so happy for this, ive been really wanting som online play for some time

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6310961.html?tag=topslot;thumb;2

that free week of psn plus will be fun.
"burn, zombie, burn!"

discuss with cake

30 Days = 1 Week

Haha, I don't understand why that xBox fanboy is expecting Sony to give people on XBL freebies.
It's totally fair.
They haven't siffered in the slightest and XBL has nothing to do with this whole affair. XD

I'm pretty sure it was either faked or obvious troll, so wouldn't pay attention to it.

For those of us who care for such virtual achievements

Hey, again, if people wanna care for virtual items, its their deal, I mean what's the difference between virtual trophies, and trophies/ medals for stuff like Bowling, or whatever small things people win them from?
To show it off, nothing more, they;re a nice little tidbit to have that you enjoy having, so if they like it, then meh, let them, right?

and in the end that's what REALLY matters...not having a REAL free game (only stupid rentals...1st and last time i purchase PSN+) or anything like that...just virtual epeen to shake at other people's faces :/

Ah, you forget, they're free rentals.

I mean, what would it matter if it was a virtual or physical copy rental, you can play both equally, right?

Also, if I recall correctly, there IS some stuff you can keep even after PS+ expires, right?

Anyway, come on people, no need to be all gloom and doom about it, look things in the bright side, see the glass half full, try not to be so negative and overanalize every single tidbit of everything to make it look bad or un-enjoyable, I am not telling you to be ok with it, but if you;re not gonna do everything about it, may as well try to enjoy what you get in return, right?

2011-05-01 23:35:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

On a little sidenote,
you can tell leon doesnt have psn at the moment

he keeps on writing and writing

... i keep on reading it and reading it...

2011-05-01 23:51:00

Author:
Luos_83

Posts: 2136

Now, not trying to be rude here, but why do people keep thinking people should change everything because of one person, without trying to think in the more general approach of things and what they'd have to do for that.
Besides, multiple accounts = each able to get different stuff

This is why I'd be mad if there were not some new downloads to choose from. I have been a plus subscriber from day one. For a while now all I here people say is it sucks and how they would neve waste their money on it. My point is why shouldn't the people who have been loyal ps plus members get a choice if we have already downloaded everything they have to offer. We are the ones who never complained and never put down the program. I'm the one who sunk all of my money into it. I always defend ps plus when people are bashing it. There are a good amount of people who will download it that never even wanted it, if they did they would have gotten it by now. Yes there are some that just never got around to it or couldn't afford it and I'm happy for those people, now they get to try it. It doesn't matter anyway because I just found out people who are already plus subscribers get a free month, so that's good enough for me. I just though it'd be cool to put in a couple games that have never been free on ps plus, for the people who have been there from the start. If not then oh well, as long as I can play some multiplayer games I don't care at this point lol. If you'll excuse me I just picked up portal 2 and I'm gonna start playing it.

2011-05-02 00:54:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

"Yay".. an extra motnh of ps plus and probable crappy free games..
Wont do much about all the trust that is gone.

I agree with Luos, in that the trust is gone.

Was thinking, after ready through the posts....

In my opinion, the FREE month of PS+ might contain some descent free games and discounts for other game purchases, so that once the FREE month of subscription is over, the PSN users that aren't already subscribed to PS+ will be thinking....."maybe I should just subscribe to it and get some more 'cool' stuff'. Again, in my opinion, great way for SONY to get more PS+ subscribers on the PSN networks and to generate more revenue for SONY.

2011-05-02 00:55:00

Author:
Unknown User

Well, a month is better than nothing.

2011-05-02 01:24:00

Author:
JspOt

Posts: 3607

well thats there plan

2011-05-02 01:27:00

Author:
Unknown User

In my opinion, the FREE month of PS+ might contain some descent free games and discounts for other game purchases, so that once the FREE month of subscription is over, the PSN users that aren't already subscribed to PS+ will be thinking....."maybe I should just subscribe to it and get some more 'cool' stuff'. Again, in my opinion, great way for SONY to get more PS+ subscribers on the PSN networks and to generate more revenue for SONY.

so true.
well.. im sure thats how they came to the idea of giving ps plus.

2011-05-02 01:29:00

Author:
Luos_83

Posts: 2136

I agree with Luos, in that the trust is gone.

Was thinking, after ready through the posts....

In my opinion, the FREE month of PS+ might contain some descent free games and discounts for other game purchases, so that once the FREE month of subscription is over, the PSN users that aren't already subscribed to PS+ will be thinking....."maybe I should just subscribe to it and get some more 'cool' stuff'. Again, in my opinion, great way for SONY to get more PS+ subscribers on the PSN networks and to generate more revenue for SONY.

It's not even an opinion, your right it's a fact. The only reason why Sony is giving the free ps plus is so people will sign up. Especially is the person loves a game tag was free on plus, now they'll have to buy it or remain a plus member. Sony isn't a multi billion dollar company because they don't like to make money. Some would say Sony does car and I believe in all that but bottom line is at the end of the day the money is what money is the reason for everything. I they didn't car about money they would be a multi thousand dollar company lol.

Like i said I do believe they are trying to make things right but you know that sat down and spent hours, even days figuring out how they can make some money from all this. Of course ps plus is a good starting point because in the end they will get a nice handful of people who want to sign up.

2011-05-02 02:16:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

2011-05-02 02:34:00

Author:
Hana_Kami

Posts: 393

2011-05-02 03:25:00

Author:
TheManofSteel3kO

Posts: 74

I can't believe some people would complain about what the free games are, or the fact that PS+ for a month may be a sales tactic disguised as a thank you. A free game is better than no game and that's still an opportunity to try PS+ that otherwise might not have happened.

Whatever happened to be grateful for what you have? At the end of the day I have my life, my friends and family, a roof over my head, food to eat, and my entertainment devices including PS3 and PSN soon.

Maybe it takes a tsunami, or a tornado, or who knows what to make people realize how petty their complaints and worries are compared to how it could be. At the end of the day those things matter more to me than what FREE game Sony is offering. A lot of people don't have any of that, and I doubt the people of Japan or the people down south here in the USA that have lost everything to natural disasters, including their PS3 and games, their home, even loved ones, are thinking about what FREE games Sony may offer for download.

Sorry, now I have started ranting. But I can't help but think about things like that when I read comments complaining about things like that. The saying is true, people don't realize what they have until it's gone. I'm just grateful I even have a PS3 and a FREE service like PSN.

For many it's hard to open their eyes when they are blinded by self indulgence and this is an increasingly growing trait in over-developed countries. I hope the babies of the future will not completely lose site of what matters in life amidst growing industrialization and leisures. I hope they will teach their children to be human and that the rich can learn from the poor.

I agree with you 100%. I'll say this in the nicest way possible. If you were referring to me about what I said I made it clear everything is cool and we should be happy things are back to normal soon. I feel for the people with all problems you've stated. I've lost everything once In a hurrican but this is not the place to talk about that. I'm sure everyone here has their own problems and lost something or someone at one point. We've all been through a lot as far as life experience goes. It sucks that people are going through these natural disasters and it makes me mad and sad to think of it, this is not a thread that focuses on that. We are here talking about the psn network shutting down. Compared to everything else in the world this is nothing. But it's what this thread is for. You can't sit hear and say that people don't care about that stuff. If you were on a forum for the Japanese earthquake recovery foundation and someone said "psn went down and they only gave us one free game" then ya be mad. I would be to.

I get what your saying but my point is this is the place to come to talk about the outage and what's going to be done. Please don't think I'm heartless and don't care about the world. I pray for those people everyday. Sometime you do have to sit back and look at everything you should be thankful for. I just think that stuff shouldn't be brought into this paticular thread. I'm sure people realise that psn problems are nothing compared to the earthquakes but this is the place to talk about the psn problems.

2011-05-02 03:34:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

I agree with you 100%. I'll say this in the nicest way possible. If you were referring to me about what I said I made it clear everything is cool and we should be happy things are back to normal soon. I feel for the people with all problems you've stated. I've lost everything once In a hurrican but this is not the place to talk about that. I'm sure everyone here has their own problems and lost something or someone at one point. We've all been through a lot as far as life experience goes. It sucks that people are going through these natural disasters and it makes me mad and sad to think of it, this is not a thread that focuses on that. We are here talking about the psn network shutting down. Compared to everything else in the world this is nothing. But it's what this thread is for. You can't sit hear and say that people don't care about that stuff. If you were on a forum for the Japanese earthquake recovery foundation and someone said "psn went down and they only gave us one free game" then ya be mad. I would be to.

I get what your saying but my point is this is the place to come to talk about the outage and what's going to be done. Please don't think I'm heartless and don't care about the world. I pray for those people everyday. Sometime you do have to sit back and look at everything you should be thankful for. I just think that stuff shouldn't be brought into this paticular thread. I'm sure people realise that psn problems are nothing compared to the earthquakes but this is the place to talk about the psn problems.

The post was related to the topic and I also said I was referencing people like that whether here, Playstation blog, or any site. Therefor it is on topic. I didn't say no one cares about the more important issues. Don't see how you could have missed the point of that post. Also I wasn't mad. ^_~ It was a general sense post related to peoples' complaints about the PSN outage. It wasn't targeting exact names nor was it an angry retaliation considering that some posters may be young children that don't understand these things as well. You may think of it as a reminder to maybe ease peoples' worries about such things related to the topic at hand and my feelings related to such things. Though I can see where it may at some parts sounded like I was typing with angered tone, thus is the internet where you can't hear the voice, unless you're in a chat room or something.

2011-05-02 03:50:00

Author:
Hana_Kami

Posts: 393

Good and I get it. Thank goodness you didn't fire back with a mile
long argument, I was ready for it lol.

That is true even in situations like these you have to stand back and say wow I'm complaining about this and look what's going on in this messed up world, so I do agree.

It came across wrong to me and thats what sucks about text you can't really get what peoples emotions are even with correct punctuation. I was being 100% sincere and after I posted I looked back at what I said and I looked like a ********* who just cares about nothing besides myself. Believe me if I meant you at a bar and we were taking about this I'd debate with you for hours about politics and life in general.

Anyway have a good one. Hopefully I'll see ya online soon lol.

Yeah, lol. Even with emoticons you can't always tell how someone is meaning it. As for arguments and debates I have been in many. I can go on forever as well, but I hate arguing and try to avoid it, but I'm easy to lure in and often unintentionally set myself up for one. I probably could have worded it to sound friendlier but I just type and it comes out how it is. That's me with my serious tone in that post, not anger. I've even posted caring posts before and someone or a few would confuse it as anger. I may have a wording problem, maybe because even when not angry I put strong emphasis on my words. Anyways you're not a ******** and sorry it came across wrong. Even when I mean good I find myself in situations like that, lol. >< And same to you, take care person I'll probably talk to again soon.

And now I have gone off topic. ><

2011-05-02 04:14:00

Author:
Hana_Kami

Posts: 393

The last post on here was hours ago. Is there another thread started because Japan may be back online as we speak. Is this a coincidence

2011-05-02 11:19:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

Havn't seen any mention of japan being online yet.

This thread often goes though quiet periods that was just a longer one.

2011-05-02 11:32:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

weren't they saying "PSN will be back in 6 days" about 5 days ago? I think PSN COULD potentially be back tomorrow, but I'm not too sure.

2011-05-02 12:32:00

Author:
Jakest123

Posts: 319

weren't they saying "PSN will be back in 6 days" about 5 days ago? I think PSN COULD potentially be back tomorrow, but I'm not too sure.

Thats what they said last wednesday, the latest is just "this week."

2011-05-02 12:40:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

Well, as long as it's this week, then I'm fine playing Portal 2 and crafting on LBP2 until it comes back.
At least it wasn't worse than this or we would have been waiting another 3 months.

2011-05-02 14:00:00

Author:
Tmjtk

Posts: 258

Button becareful try to contact the credict card company if u havent done yet. i really can belibe that psn was so insecure. x( thank god i didnt save my mom credict card number. hope non one get a serius problem or psn will have to pay for it.

2011-05-02 14:30:00

Author:
Unknown User

Sony Online Entertainment has taken its servers down.

We have had to take the SOE service down temporarily. In the course of our investigation into the intrusion into our systems we have discovered an issue that warrants enough concern for us to take the service down effective immediately. We will provide an update later today (Monday).

http://uk.kotaku.com/5797619/sonys-online-portal-goes-down

2011-05-02 15:13:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

Eh, I just hope Anon wasn't stupid enough to try anything atm, after the conference, considering that its not only Sony's security they have to watch out for now.

Maybe the investigation just moving its course, meaning PSN's investigation is clear enough for now they can return services while they move on to investigate SOE.

Either way, hopefully they already knew about this and it doesn't delay PSN's recovery another 2 weeks. xD

2011-05-02 15:44:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

2011-05-02 16:24:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

Can I ask the people that have lost the trust, what they were expecting?
Do someone lose the trust in mommy and daddy if burglars enter his house?
Do someone stop to love his cat/dog if he eats or scratches to pieces an important document?
Bah...I don't know...this lost trust innuendo makes me quite puzzled.

I think you've got a good point. Only thing is you know your mommy, daddy or dog very well, they've been there close to you for a long time. Sony is a company that you really really like buy don't love a much as your parents. Say my mom borrowed my credit card, she tells me that she just handed to a stranger. To be honest I would never trust my mom with it again. I don't think it's anything like when your cat scratches you. Your pet is something you truly love not just really really like. I just think it's different with Sony and your own parents now that I think about it. At first I said I would never trust Sony. Now I do, I'll just be a extra careful with my information. I think they did their best and tackled the problem the best way they knew how. If people lost total trust they would have sold their ps3 and bought a different console, which some did and will.

2011-05-02 16:46:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

It's not the samish thing
Here's some stuff
http://n4g.com/news/754934/this-diagram-shows-exactly-how-the-psn-was-hacked/com
You have to read all the comments here and in the related article.
There were 3 firewalls in place and the hacking has been a really cleverly done one.
I don't know if they could have done more.
Yeah, encrypt the data, maybe, but I guess that a guy that managed to get them would have been quite good to decrypt them in like 2 days max.

2011-05-02 16:50:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

Updated first post.

http://n4g.com/news/754934/this-diagram-shows-exactly-how-the-psn-was-hacked/com

Hmm. Looks like a pretty standard web-based injection attack, although I'm surprised they managed to inject what looks like an executable onto the application server - that's a pretty serious vulnerability.

Firewalls are of little consequence in these instances - they're designed to prevent access to other services which might be running on the machines, like command-line interfaces. When you have an injection vulnerability, typically exploited by crafting 'special' HTTP requests, a firewall ain't gonna help you at all - there's always an indirect connection between the web server and the database, otherwise the sites wouldn't be able to work.

Generally, web servers and database servers are existing off-the-shelf products like Apache and Oracle, and have gone through years of security testing, but "application servers" which 'glue' them together are typically developed from scratch, often in-house.

It's possible one of the developers knew there was a vulnerability, but assumed (incorrectly) that it was so obscure that no-one would ever find it. So-called "security through obscurity" is a misnomer, but it's incredibly common. Oftentimes due to having to meet deadlines, you release a product knowing that it's faulty, because it's not cost-effective to fix it prior to the deadline. q.v. LBP2.

2011-05-02 18:01:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

Sony online entertainment has been taken down now as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13260041?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

2011-05-02 18:52:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

My take as an expert on human stuff is that more complex things breaks easier than simple stuff.
It's easier to break a computer than a menhir LOL
Having servers to operate such a variety of features, and managing all those accesses at once can never be something solid.
I don't think anyone could have been able to prevent such a thing.
Maybe this guy has been working on this breach for who knows how long.
For the hackers it's a challenge, no way he could have stopped.
And he doesn't realize the problems he's going to create. Supposedly that he was "just" a hacker for hobby and not as a criminal.

2011-05-02 19:00:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

Moar updates, this time from the horses mouth. Apparently, passwords were hashed and we're being told again (sort of) that there is no confirmation of cc fraud as a result of this attack

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2011/05/02/playstation-network-security-update/

2011-05-02 19:05:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

Or RTM can just post it...

Interesting, the passwords were hashed, better than nothing.

2011-05-02 19:06:00

Author:
Spider-Jew

Posts: 1090

I've head that since Sony is opening the server region by region, NA should get sevice by Tuesday

2011-05-02 19:26:00

Author:
Unknown User

2011-05-02 19:30:00

Author:
JakePutz

Posts: 92

Yeah, it was said that they were hashed, I think at the Sony conference.
Between the tech geek we have here, what's a reasonable estimate time to dowload all the user's data?
It was name, surname, address, date of birth. It could just be some k for every user, but even with a high dowload speed (but that could have alerted the servers?), mirroring all that stuff should take some time.
And then, how have they been stored?
Alphabetically by username or name/surname?

2011-05-02 19:30:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer

Posts: 5112

Updated first post.

Apparently, passwords were hashed...

Figured they probably would be, but it's nice to have the confirmation. I don't quite get why they don't consider a one-way hash to be 'encryption'. I'd always considered one-way hashing to be more secure than reversible encryption.

...what's a reasonable estimate time to dowload all the user's data?

Assuming, say, 2k per record for 77 million records at 8 Mb/s, I make it about 2 days.

And then, how have they been stored? Alphabetically by username or name/surname?

Databases typically store the physical data in the order in which it was added, and use separate index structures to sort it in other ways. There's no way to be sure what order the data was retrieved in, though.

2011-05-02 19:33:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

I don't quite get why they don't consider a one-way hash to be 'encryption'.

Me neither. To Encrypt is, by definition, the act of making something "hidden" - nothing about that infers you have to be able to decrypt it to make it count. I've always known of hashing functions in that sense to be "1-way encryption".

2011-05-02 19:40:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

Hmm. Looks like a pretty standard web-based injection attack, although I'm surprised they managed to inject what looks like an executable onto the application server - that's a pretty serious vulnerability.

Firewalls are of little consequence in these instances - they're designed to prevent access to other services which might be running on the machines, like command-line interfaces. When you have an injection vulnerability, typically exploited by crafting 'special' HTTP requests, a firewall ain't gonna help you at all - there's always an indirect connection between the web server and the database, otherwise the sites wouldn't be able to work.

Generally, web servers and database servers are existing off-the-shelf products like Apache and Oracle, and have gone through years of security testing, but "application servers" which 'glue' them together are typically developed from scratch, often in-house.

It's possible one of the developers knew there was a vulnerability, but assumed (incorrectly) that it was so obscure that no-one would ever find it. So-called "security through obscurity" is a misnomer, but it's incredibly common. Oftentimes due to having to meet deadlines, you release a product knowing that it's faulty, because it's not cost-effective to fix it prior to the deadline. q.v. LBP2.

I feel a lot smarter after reading your post. ^^

The more you know *cue music*

2011-05-02 19:47:00

Author:
Hana_Kami

Posts: 393

Did this happen to anyone else? On the days leading up to the PSN shutdown I was having issues logging in to the network. When I turned on my PS3 and it would try to auto-connect to PSN, it would fail and I would get the error message we all are getting now. Then I would go to the "sign in" option and usually have no problems. This happened for 3 or 4 days before the shutdown, so when PSN was shut down I had no idea it was a world-wide problem, I thought it was a problem with my connection. Could this be a coincidence, or was it maybe when the hackers were actively hacking away? It almost makes me worry a little about my account... could I not log in because something fishy was going on? Obviously I have no clue how all this stuff works, but a lot of you guys do so I thought you might find it interesting. If you don't, or if this is off-topic I apologize!

Even though I'd be able to log in after one try I also had problems logging in. It was for about 4-5 days before it went out. I would even get booted off in the middle of playing. At the time I thought it was my modem or router. I has just gotten a brand new modem and purchased a nice new router so I thought that something was wrong with that. Maybe there is but I won't know until we get up and running.

2011-05-02 21:45:00

Author:
METALPUNKS

Posts: 306

Think it'll be up today?

2011-05-02 21:57:00

Author:
Captain

Posts: 92

http://www.bgr.com/2011/05/02/sony-suffers-another-major-security-breach/

Nikkei.com on Monday reported that an online Sony gaming network has once again fallen victim to a cyberattack. This time, the attack may have exposed the credit card numbers of thousands of Sony customers from around the world. According to the report, over 12,700 customer credit card numbers were stolen during a breach of Sony?s online gaming network, Sony Online Entertainment. According to Nikkei.com, Sony discovered the possible attack on Sunday. Sony recently suffered a similar attack on its PlayStation Network, which was offline for days as a result of the breach. Though Sony has yet to confirm this new incident publicly, the Sony Online Entertainment portal has been taken offline while Sony investigates the matter.

2011-05-02 23:05:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

For shame why doesn't Sony get a break yet these breaches are killing my morale.

2011-05-02 23:14:00

Author:
acdramon

Posts: 332

And it continues.

Is it known if it is the same attacker(s) or a different one?

2011-05-02 23:15:00

Author:
Silver39

Posts: 1703

http://www.soe.com/securityupdate/

2007 database so thats slightly less bad.

2011-05-02 23:57:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

THIS IS A RUMOR! IT IS NOT OFFICIAL!

Rumor has it that PSN might be back up tommorow (May 3). This is a rumor and has not been finalized.

2011-05-03 01:05:00

Author:
LBP2_Tutorialist

Posts: 225

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