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#1

Worried about LBP2 online population?

Archive: 59 posts

So, its recently been bothering me that I see really low numbers of people online when I play LBP2. Last night 7pm Central US time there was only round 6,000. According to the games data anyway.

I'm not really worried about receiving less plays or anything, just that the LBP franchise may be in a bit of trouble... if this game doesn't make enough money, will sony want to have it continue? Scary to me, though I don't know much about those sorts of things, I just teach math...

But anyway, what happened to that normal LBP1 population of around the upper teens? I know LBP1 is still somewhat populated but still...

I'm thinking that maybe the marketing scheme of "a platform for games" really didn't go that well. I personally saw it as sort of a gimick... the new games that LBP2 can make are cool, but not something that would personally make me come back over and over to the game. Perhaps that is where we lost some folks? I know I enjoyed LBP1's focus on creative platforming more...seemed more of a solid base.


Anyway, just my thoughts... yours?		2011-04-07 14:54:00

Author:
Lockstitch
Posts: 415

1. First of all it's a middle of the week
2. LBP2 still need to get cheaper like LBP1 and it still sells and getting new people
3. at 7 pm central US, Europe sleeps

So its quite normal and maximum activity should be somehere around 2pm in your time where europe US time overlaps?

And don't you worry about LBP, it one of most sucessful IPs that Sony generated and in todays gameing world makeing new IP is not so easy thing, so for Sony LBP is pure gold. Not to mention Killzone 2 is faumous of online died of after few mouths, yet they made KZ3


I'm thinking that maybe the marketing scheme of "a platform for games" really didn't go that well. I personally saw it as sort of a gimick... the new games that LBP2 can make are cool, but not something that would personally make me come back over and over to the game.

Says someone who do only platformers without much logic ^^ games and movies is actually only thing that makes LBP2 sell, or else it would be nothing more then just extended LBP1 in eyes of people. Most people dont see this as a gimick, people who are sensitive for gimicks that i know was wowing seeing beta footages.

LBP2 gives larger logic possibilities, so it's more natural that it will most likely generate more minigames then platformers. Marketing LBP2 other way would be like that would be practicly an error and as i know most rated feature in games with editors was variority of game types and it always been seen as a huge plus in the game, prime example is Blizzard RTS games and guess what they market SC2 this way too showing off new possibilities of editor.

So it not Platform for games issue, if there something that makes people reject LBP is mainly apperence of a game for kids and infamous floty jumps 		2011-04-07 15:20:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

Ah, nice. Glad to hear the opinion of someone more knowledgable than I in the game industry process. Thanks.2011-04-07 15:59:00

Author:
Lockstitch
Posts: 415

I'm with you Lock.
And I'm all for platformers without logic.
My new level has no, nada, nyet, zero switches .
Fun fun fun, and jump, jump, jump...what this game is clearly missing.
Platforming...too much other games.
Obviously here there will be people that will say we're wrong, like Shadow or someone else.
I respect their opinions, but I don't share.
In my perception LBP2 has not the soul of LBP1		2011-04-07 16:14:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Not to worry.. I will be doing platformers. I can just do a survival challenge or minigame much faster and wanted to have something out in LBP2 for folks to have fun with.

I have seen on the weekends some really large numbers online. Not sure if this recent PSN hacking mess has caused some of the issues getting online or not. I know it takes me some two or three times to connect. Still can't with LBP.me which I think is hurting some of the cool new flexibility of the game. Especially not being able to add to your queue while on your PC.

As far as the original subject line.. I am not too worried. It is still early. I think it missing Xmas sales might have reduced the numbers a bit as well as other games that did beat it out on the market. Leaving folks a choice at which $60 game to buy usually does not equate to buying both these days since many are in a pinch financially.

Another thought is when I am in create frenzy, I tend to stay offline. Especially if the PSN is flaky when connecting. That might be a bit of it as well.		2011-04-07 16:29:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Im in Europe and at weekends I regulary see 20,000 people on. During the week it drops a bit. One way to look at it is that there are a lot more users but we are not all on at the same time. Look at the new levels that reach well over 100,000 plays with unique users. I don't think you have anything to worry about.2011-04-07 16:33:00

Author:
Aven1981_UK
Posts: 51

That number online does indeed seem rather low...even for mid-week. I wonder if PSN being flakey as late has anything to do with it?

I also thought the platform for games was baloney...since launch I've revised my opinion after having played a few really good/addictive non-platformers. That said, most are horrid/not fun/or pale imitations of the original (ex. any sort of top down shooter). If that's all there was to LBP2 I wouldn't keep coming back either.

I prefer to find good platforming levels to play when I'm not in the mood to create...but I appreciate being able to load up a Vectroids or Space Escape Pinball after a long create session for a quick game. Now that some time has passed since launch hopefully we'll start seeing even more platorming levels getting completed.

> Says someone who do only platformers without much logic

Shadow...clearly you haven't played Refuse Ridge...platformers can use plenty-o-logic. Logic != fun rewarding experience.		2011-04-07 16:33:00

Author:
fullofwin
Posts: 1214

Well i don't say that platformers are wrong, i just saying thinking that LBP2 doing bad (but it's not doing bad) because there less platforming levels is wrong ;]

Simple platform levels are cool too and they are needed since there visible demand for that kind of levels, both Lockstitch and RacingCreed (that sheres same style) levels always end up popular.		2011-04-07 16:39:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

Shadowriver: So it not Platform for games issue, if there something that makes people reject LBP is mainly apperence of a game for kids and infamous floty jumps

I fully agree with this statement. The cute appeal is very deceiving as LBP is so much more and people don't actually realise until they played at least an hour. I have to force my husband to play levels with me as he's not interested in the way it looks. Yet when he actually settles down and plays he has so much fun.

Also the floaty jump, sliding off physics actually put me off LBP1 but you get used to it and your player skill goes up as you learn ways to ace levels. I very rarely have a problem witht he called floaty jump at all.

This game has done so well and is fairly new so there definitely won't be a price reduction and it doesn't need one yet. I laugh everytime a friend of mine says is it half price yet.		2011-04-07 16:41:00

Author:
LittleBigDes
Posts: 920

Aren't people having trouble sigining in to PSN with the whole Anonymous thing? Maybe that's why the numbers are so low.2011-04-07 17:03:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893

Ha ha I forgot about that bit.2011-04-07 17:05:00

Author:
LittleBigDes
Posts: 920

But anyway, what happened to that normal LBP1 population of around the upper teens?

Well I'm still here! And I kind of like the platform for games campaign, my older brother thought littlebigplanet was just a lame boring graphics platformer, then he saw what could be made, and he was all excited for it. I dunno I think LBP2 is better than ever, but that's me.		2011-04-07 17:52:00

Author:
Jayhawk_er
Posts: 403

Whats this PSN issue? I haven't heard of this before now.2011-04-08 02:34:00

Author:
Lockstitch
Posts: 415

Aren't people having trouble sigining in to PSN with the whole Anonymous thing? Maybe that's why the numbers are so low.

It seemed to affect logging into lbp.me for a day or two, but I hadn't noticed any trouble signing in on my PS3.

LBP has never enjoyed the kind of sales that some of the more mainstream hits have had, but the first game performed solidly over time and from what I'm told, is one of the most profitable franchises Sony has currently due to a steady stream of DLC. So keep buying those costumes 		2011-04-08 05:41:00

Author:
Chazprime
Posts: 587

@ above post. (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=54560-PSN-is-down-(EU)...)

In my opinion, the whole "platform for games" gimmick is rather weak.
You're never going to be able to top the likes of CoD, FF7, etc.
But there is potential to top the likes of Crash/etc, as platformers are the base and heart of LBP.

If I wanted to play a shooter/rpg/whatever, I'm not going to stick the LBP disk in my PS3..

Platformers for life!!		2011-04-08 05:43:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

Have you compared the numbers across LBP1 and 2 at a variety of times and on a number of days? I don't really look at the numbers online when I sign in so I haven't noticed it fall.2011-04-08 05:53:00

Author:
Ayneh
Posts: 2454

My point is always the same.
Platform for games is not that good.
As Midnight said, you can find awesome mini games everywhere and perhaps almost every mini game is a remake with little imagination and creativity. (yes there are exceptions, but they're really too few)
While if you want to platform in 2D or 2.5D there's really nothing except the Mario stuff on the Wii, and most of the levels on LBP1 have been really more fun than Mario imho.
The game is changing too much to appeal the vast majority.
For example I don't like to not see my sackboy because he's in a vehicle, or see the top of his head and missing his faces.
What's the point of buying, making costumes if in the levels I don't even see my sackboy?
Most of the mini games also seem too serious looking, and that's not a problem, but they don't relate much to the sackboy world imho, and the tools and most of all the materials are not made to make serious stuff, LBP world has always had a kind of "particualr twist", some kind of oddity and goofiness.
The game is losing a lot of its cuteness.
A cuteness that made the game fun and made it stand out.
Maybe LBP2 is not killing itself, but it's just damaging the sackboy "iconicism" (I think I create a new word )		2011-04-08 06:11:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

@ above post. (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=54560-PSN-is-down-(EU)...)
If I wanted to play a shooter/rpg/whatever, I'm not going to stick the LBP disk in my PS3..
Platformers for life!!

I'm interested in shooters/rpgs/whatever that are also platformers. That's the true beauty of LBP2 to me. You can mix platforming with just about anything now. Most shooter levels I'm seeing are essentially survival challenges where the players never leave the room they start in, but there's so much more potential than that.

The Mega Man games would never have been fun if there had only been platforming without shooting, or shooting without platforming.		2011-04-08 09:54:00

Author:
zabel99
Posts: 179

Hm. Hm. Agreed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nySkau-deI)
Yes, I feel some of that charm lost in the quest for perfection.
The critics are as much to blame as the creators though.

I also look forward to when more platformers incorporate puzzles/mini games. We have the technology. O_O
I kinda wish we had all those LBP2 upgrades at the start of LBP1. That would have been interesting.		2011-04-08 11:09:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

The reason behind the current population is just one: LBP 2 is not selling as good as LBP 1 did in the same timeframe. There are many reasons for this: in first place LBP 1 was released before Xmas and used it to boost sales, while LBP 2 missed the holidays with a last minute delay. The game itself is extremely special because it uses a relatively basic gameplay that can be appreciated by everyone but only a small niche audience can fully appreciate the game. The casual crowd was attracted by the novelty of the first game, while the sequel is followed mostly by the fans. LBP 2 biggest improvements are in the create department which is fully appreciated by a small part of the fanbase, while many casual players who bought LBP 1 saw LBP 2 just as more of the same and didn't jump in. A large chunk of LBP fanbase is also done by young players who don't play the same game for a long time and will quit it after 2-3 months.

So it's safe to assume that LBP 2 numbers wll never reach LBP 1 numbers.		2011-04-08 11:19:00

Author:
Vergil
Posts: 155

Hm. Hm. Agreed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nySkau-deI)
Yes, I feel some of that charm lost in the quest for perfection.
The critics are as much to blame as the creators though.

I also look forward to when more platformers incorporate puzzles/mini games. We have the technology. O_O
I kinda wish we had all those LBP2 upgrades at the start of LBP1. That would have been interesting.

Having a lot or all the stuff is not always the best thing.
Most of the most creative stuff came from people that had to build their own things, their own logics, their own visions.
Now everything is on a silver plate ready to use.
The point is that in LBP2 nothing will impress me like Seadragon or Special_D GTA like level because there was another "level" of ingenious and creativity behind them.
Lately even some awesome known creator can't have sackbots that are control friendly
I don't know, I will still support the game and what it means, but I can't hide the point that overall I find it disappointing.


The reason behind the current population is just one: LBP 2 is not selling as good as LBP 1 did in the same timeframe. There are many reasons for this: in first place LBP 1 was released before Xmas and used it to boost sales, while LBP 2 missed the holidays with a last minute delay. The game itself is extremely special because it uses a relatively basic gameplay that can be appreciated by everyone but only a small niche audience can fully appreciate the game. The casual crowd was attracted by the novelty of the first game, while the sequel is followed mostly by the fans. LBP 2 biggest improvements are in the create department which is fully appreciated by a small part of the fanbase, while many casual players who bought LBP 1 saw LBP 2 just as more of the same and didn't jump in. A large chunk of LBP fanbase is also done by young players who don't play the same game for a long time and will quit it after 2-3 months.

So it's safe to assume that LBP 2 numbers wll never reach LBP 1 numbers.

Fair observation, and as it has been said, the casual crowd can now play Tetris or Pac-Man (the originals) on their iPhones without having to connect on a (sometimes bonky) server (PSN), without the hassle of people diving in, strange lags and whatever.		2011-04-08 11:27:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

So im European but if its 7pm in America what time is it here. My geography took the first door out my brain.2011-04-08 12:17:00

Author:
craigmond
Posts: 2426

I have also noticed the slump in the games popularity compared to the first one, and I think there are several reasons why.

My opinion.

Mm designed & marketed the game more towards the experienced creator on LBP. As we all know, these are few and far between.

I think it's great that they developed the game with the thoughts of the dedicated fans in mind, but the prospect of "XOR Gates" or whatever don't sound as appealing to a novice gamer compared to the "jump and grab" aspect the first game showed us. It's a little too much for any novice to have any fun with I think. It's all still there, but to anyone new to the franchise you wouldn't really know it. You would see all these different types of games being made and think that your "Fire Jumps Of Doom" level was totally obsolete. The majority of kids would see all this new logic like a foreign language, have no intrest and stick on CoD instead.

Remember, i'm speaking about the masses here. Of course certain individuals will pick it up no problem, i'm simply talking about the majority.

The difficult second album curse. Sequels seem to always have this way about them, no matter how good or advanced it may be, it rarely captures the same atmosphere that it did the first time around. Of course, there are exceptions, and i'm not saying that I think LBP1 was better, but the way I see it, people see sequels as 'old news.' Ironic really.

Another thing which probably contributed is the missing of the Christmas boom, but thats already been talked about here, so i'll leave that alone.




But anyway, what happened to that normal LBP1 population of around the upper teens?



I think a lot of those people have simply moved on. Not just in gaming, but in life itself. The new generation of this age group are most likely thinking what I said in my first paragraph, and just don't fully understand how to make things efficiently. Also, the game looks like a kids game. You'd really have to do your research if you were 15+. It's not obvious from the various advertisements that there is a mass of logic and tech underneath the cute & cuddly image, this again brings me back to my point of novice players being overwhelmed.

It's still early days though, and it's not as if LBP2 a baron wasteland, it's still a fairly active community & I hope it keeps that way.		2011-04-08 13:12:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

I think it's great that they developed the game with the thoughts of the dedicated fans in mind, but the prospect of "XOR Gates" or whatever don't sound as appealing to a novice gamer compared to the "jump and grab" aspect the first game showed us. It's a little too much for any novice to have any fun with I think.

That reflects my point of view. I think Mm just missed a chapter. When I first saw all the new electronics in create mode, I couldn't figure what was what. I thought we just missed a chapter to teach us the missing gap between LBP1 logic and LBP2. Something more like: "Beofre you had to do this and this and that to be able to make this. NOw, oyu can put these there, use this and voil?."

I remember the thing i loved making in LBP1 were the most simple spongie on a string. They we're so much fun at the time...		2011-04-08 14:09:00

Author:
Chump
Posts: 1712

In the first week of LBP2 there were over 60K people online and it even made the servers lag hardcore.. i was hoping the popularity of the game would stay that high but it didn't..
When i'm online in the evening i usually see about 11K people on, and over 20K in the weekend.. (i live in Europe.. in America there seems to be less LBP players..)

I guess people really just think LBP2 is a game that they can play for a week or so and than throw away..

I even think that some people actually bought the game only to play Mm story levels, and then stopped playing LBP2 after finishing them, thinking they have "finished" this game..
And they don't bother checking out the create mode, wich is THE TRUE PURPOSE of LBP2!

A great example of that is the IGN reviewer who played the story mode of LBP2 (and judged the game based on the story mode), and then entered the create mode for 3 seconds and said "Hmm i don't understand this, ok i'm gonna go, bye."

I always thought that the story levels are just being a fancy way of MM to give the player the create tools, and to inspire them with Mm's work.. the create mode mode is where Mm really focused on the most in the production, and it is the "Create, Play, Share" community concept that adds LBP the infinite replay value it possesses..

Instead of showing only gameplay footage of story levels and community levels in trailers, maybe Mm should have added more promotions for the amazing and really complex create tools that allow you to create anything.... maybe it would have given LBP a less "Platforming game for children" image..

Something else i wanted to say about the people who miss that there were only platformers:

Maybe it's weird but in LBP1 i was never really that much of a fan of the "classic platformers", i rather liked levels that would think outsde the box..
Sure i spent about 90% of my time in LBP in create, but that is probably exactly why.. most levels could get succesful even when made in a few days or a week, just because it had fun gameplay..
I didn't want to be one of the creators where people would look at and say: "Oh look, you're another one of those platformer creators, i've played 1000 levels that have nothing different than yours, and maybe your levels aren't even as good as [insert PSN here], but i will still heart you because i had fun playing your levels"..
Maybe i just didn't want to be accepted as a "second best" creator, and if i wasn't the best at least i wanted to be different and unique/original..

If anything LBP2 adds more originality to peoples creations, the game gives you seemingly infifnite freedom in what to create, and there is almost nothing that is impossible to build in LBP2..
They may not be alot of awesome levels out yet proving that, most people have yet only released "Demos" of how an FPS, RPG, etc would be like in LBP2, but the game is still fresh and i'm positive it will evolve alot and fastly..

The new tools are, in my opinion, yet very under-estimated by the community, and they have not showed anything of their true potential yet..
The community simply needs demonstrations/showcases of what LBP2 really has the potential of being done with, so that they will get inspired to create themselves, and i think Mm is doing that very well with the Mm picks..
(even though they miss out on ALOT of awesome stuff but that is not my point)		2011-04-08 14:12:00

Author:
thi766
Posts: 135

The reason behind the current population is just one: LBP 2 is not selling as good as LBP 1 did in the same timeframe.
Where did you get that info? If i remember right LBP1 wasn't a real seller aswell (never even reached nr.1 in the charts, LBP2 was on nr.1 for several weeks)
They've sold over 4.5mil copies of LBP1 by now (which is fantastic for a PS exclusive title) but it took them years to get there.

cheers,
misty		2011-04-08 14:30:00

Author:
Mother-Misty
Posts: 574

That reflects my point of view. I think Mm just missed a chapter. When I first saw all the new electronics in create mode, I couldn't figure what was what. I thought we just missed a chapter to teach us the missing gap between LBP1 logic and LBP2. Something more like: "Beofre you had to do this and this and that to be able to make this. NOw, oyu can put these there, use this and voil?."

I remember the thing i loved making in LBP1 were the most simple spongie on a string. They we're so much fun at the time...

Definitely.

Maybe Mm were a little too used to talking with expert creators that they forgot that the majority of gamers never understood basic logic? I dunno, maybe that's a little harsh.

I think the game is a little over complicated in parts though and there could have been more effort put in to even the complexity for players with little experience. I still don't understand why there weren't more tutorials on the different bits of logic. It was kinda like "So, this is one thing this can do, figure the rest out for yourself." That's fun and all, but for the aspiring newbie, I could see it as being a bit of a demoraliser.		2011-04-08 14:32:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

Where did you get that info? If i remember right LBP1 wasn't a real seller aswell (never even reached nr.1 in the charts, LBP2 was on nr.1 for several weeks)
They've sold over 4.5mil copies of LBP1 by now (which is fantastic for a PS exclusive title) but it took them years to get there.

cheers,
misty

Lbp 1 sold 2 millions in the first 3 months, while LBP 2 is currently at 1.2 millions. It's currently selling about 25-30k a week so it won't come close to LBP 1 numbers. It's safe to assume that the game will do 2.5-3 millions max assuming they release a platinum version close to Xmas.		2011-04-08 15:02:00

Author:
Vergil
Posts: 155

What I mean is that if you enter a top down competitive shooter, you won't be able to type some pranks, pull faces, slap your friend...
Those things are a bit missed.
The things that were fun, not the ASTONISHING ones.
(But surely someone will come here and say: "use the mic", that it's the simplest thing for all us Italian, French, Deutch, Dutch, Polish, Spanish, Swedish, Norse people...especially with the true awesome audio fart quality of PSN...I remember speaking with Miglioshin in Italian and it seemed like he had a tractor in his house, and couldn't understand if I was speaking with Ninja or his wife/friend/grandma/son/uncle)		2011-04-08 15:48:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

That reflects my point of view. I think Mm just missed a chapter. When I first saw all the new electronics in create mode, I couldn't figure what was what. I thought we just missed a chapter to teach us the missing gap between LBP1 logic and LBP2. Something more like: "Beofre you had to do this and this and that to be able to make this. NOw, oyu can put these there, use this and voil?."

I remember the thing i loved making in LBP1 were the most simple spongie on a string. They we're so much fun at the time...

Agreed.

I remember in the beta when it took me two weeks for me to figure out the new logic because there wasn't any tutorials or so. But luckily I had PSN friends showing me how the logic worked.
When I buy other games i can usually figure out how most stuff works in a couple of hours or so (Minecraft for example), it shouldn't take two weeks. I usually give up on games if it will take me weeks to learn how to play it, and that might be one of the reasons why there aren't that many people that keeps playing LBP2. LBP1 was much more simple cause when I built my logic I could see how it worked, in LBP2 I place a chip and connect wires to it and that makes LBP2 logic harder for new players because they can't really see how it works.

One example is my cousins (they are 8 and 11 years old), I showed them LBP1 and they liked it and played it quite a lot for a time, they could create basic vehicles and/or use the MM-made objects. MM-objects were pretty awesome imo cause you could place them and then watch how they worked (helped my cousins and myself a lot when we started playing LBP2). But what about LBP2? Hmm, was there any MM-made objects? Well yes, like five with complex logic and stuff and I could barely see what was going on inside their microchips. Not quite the best objects if you want to learn how to make stuff.


My point is always the same.
Platform for games is not that good.
As Midnight said, you can find awesome mini games everywhere and perhaps almost every mini game is a remake with little imagination and creativity. (yes there are exceptions, but they're really too few)
While if you want to platform in 2D or 2.5D there's really nothing except the Mario stuff on the Wii, and most of the levels on LBP1 have been really more fun than Mario imho.
The game is changing too much to appeal the vast majority.
For example I don't like to not see my sackboy because he's in a vehicle, or see the top of his head and missing his faces.
What's the point of buying, making costumes if in the levels I don't even see my sackboy?
Most of the mini games also seem too serious looking, and that's not a problem, but they don't relate much to the sackboy world imho, and the tools and most of all the materials are not made to make serious stuff, LBP world has always had a kind of "particualr twist", some kind of oddity and goofiness.
The game is losing a lot of its cuteness.
A cuteness that made the game fun and made it stand out.
Maybe LBP2 is not killing itself, but it's just damaging the sackboy "iconicism" (I think I create a new word )

Pretty much what I think too.

I don't personally like game-remakes in LBP2, if I want to play super mario then I'll go and play it instead of some poor remake on LBP2. I bought LBP1 because I was tired of all racing, shooting games etc. So I thought when I saw some LBP1 trailers, "This looks different quite fun and cute!" so I bought LBP1. And it was indeed very cute and fun, I don't think I've ever spent that much time that I did on LBP1 than I've done on anything else. Everything in LBP1 looked like it was kind of..Eh.. Hand crafted, which looked very neat and different from other games. Or as you said Omega "A cuteness that made the game fun and made it stand out." LBP2 on the other hand looks very futuristic and the style is rather simple and boring, not cute or fun at all.

Or to quote midnight-heist:


If I wanted to play a shooter/rpg/whatever, I'm not going to stick the LBP disk in my PS3..


-------------------------
P.S those who's going to say "GTFO LBP2 then and go and play LBP1" my answer will be that I don't play any LBP games or PS3 games in general anymore.		2011-04-08 15:53:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Maybe Mm were a little too used to talking with expert creators that they forgot that the majority of gamers never understood basic logic? I dunno, maybe that's a little harsh.

Guys, LBP2 whatever you think or not it's not set only for creating, main idea is to play what smaller group of talent do, remember there more people playing than creating in LBP and its a game not photoshop ;] In fact this is how it was marketing at the end, "Whole world do games for you" or something like that

So things like "XOR Gate" naming is not a issue, in fact this is the easiest name you can use for that gadget, other name you could use is "exclusive disjunction" which is more confusing, and Gate names are more popular in use across whole media not to mention LBP2 is actually easier then LBP1 eventually because you can do on LBP2 what you could do in LBP1 but you can do it in less annoying way since lot of stuff got improved, specially the cursor functions

If you guys want to know what MM thinks about LBP difficulty and overcomplexity watch this:

http://video.bafta.org/services/player/bcpid601325186001?bctid=639675418001

So i say it most likely natural down across whole gameing then LBP2 losing poplaraty because complexivity, today is friday so it should peak today much higher then in the week. As always you guys searching problems in wrong way lol		2011-04-08 16:02:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

I probably wouldn't have bought LBP2 if it weren't a "Platform For Games". I bought the first one and had a lot of fun with it, but in order for a sequel to be relevant, it needed a natural progression. Now, whether or not a sequel was necessary or if DLC was adequate is another discussion, but I believe that if they did do a sequel, they really had to push things beyond platforming.

I do sympathize with the "platforming purists" in one regard, though. I think overbearing support of non-traditional LBP levels is becoming a bit tiresome. I've said before that I believe this is temporary; an effort by MM to show what can be done in the game now and how they can justify this as a true sequel more so than a full-priced expansion pack. I think as that need for that diminishes, you'll see more platformers getting their due, especially if they utilize the new tools effectively.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's hard for me to play something like "Frozen Flame" and think that the "Platform for games" is a bad idea.		2011-04-08 17:46:00

Author:
nextlevel88
Posts: 149

What I mean is that if you enter a top down competitive shooter, you won't be able to type some pranks, pull faces, slap your friend...
Those things are a bit missed.


Yeah, I know what you mean. Those kinds of things could keep you having buckets of fun even when the level you were in was average.

I think creators need to be reluctant to do any of the following:
1. Keep a player in a controllinator for a long time.
2. Disable popit controls.
3. Not support 1-4 players.
4. Use long cutscenes.

Any of that can be justified depending on the level, but we need to realize we're making a significant sacrifice any time we do any of those things. Especially #2, since the popit is used for so many things that make the game fun for players. I would be very reluctant to disable the popit.		2011-04-09 14:33:00

Author:
zabel99
Posts: 179

We need platform levels. No more gimmicks. I hope this "platform for games" thing is just a phase. That being said, I want to make it clear that I don't dislike non-platforming levels, I just think there are two many of them, and they aren't that fun.

"Hey, check out this really cool 50-layer Ultra 3D game level I made! Doesn't it look cool!?"

"Yeah... but it isn't any fun..."

"..."

^ This illustrates how I feel about a lot of these new community levels.		2011-04-09 23:23:00

Author:
Stoicrow
Posts: 276

Well, when you look at community it's written something like "-hurrdurr- players are playing right now". But isn't that restricted only to the cool pages? And when you go to MMpicks, you see the same thing, but isn't that aswell directed to those who play the MMpicks only? When I browse through Story Levels I mainly see a lot people playing.2011-04-10 13:16:00

Author:
AbdiHMA
Posts: 86

Well, when you look at community it's written something like "-hurrdurr- players are playing right now". But isn't that restricted only to the cool pages? And when you go to MMpicks, you see the same thing, but isn't that aswell directed to those who play the MMpicks only? When I browse through Story Levels I mainly see a lot people playing.

No, thats players log in to PSN and have LBP2 tuned on, even if they are in pod		2011-04-10 13:41:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

Though you don't have to be online to play LBP2. I get DC'd quite a lot while creating, but I'm still playing.2011-04-10 16:15:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893

Definitely.

Maybe Mm were a little too used to talking with expert creators that they forgot that the majority of gamers never understood basic logic? I dunno, maybe that's a little harsh.

This is very true. They had their eyes fixed on say 14 certain people that they complete forgot about the rest... Also the cover for LBP2 causes people to think the game is "Just for kids", Its a shame people always judge a book by its cover...		2011-04-10 16:51:00

Author:
Tawarf
Posts: 457

Oh sorry my correction ^^ the onlien counts people online that are login in to PSN and LBP server, in other words people that can be visible to "Friends Online"2011-04-10 17:29:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

I think one of the bigges issues LBP2 had/has - online gaming with friends. The game came out of the box completely broken for community play with friends and/or strangers.

I had so many friends that were online playing LBP2 when it first came out - and didn't get a chance to play with any of them. It's bad when everyone puts on "auto-reject" for other players joining because it break the game. Luckily, this issue has been put down to a minimum.

Even now, Dive In rarely works, and going through Level Links separates you from your friends - if you were playing with a stranger - that's it, they are now gone.

The average person playing with other community members has taken a hit. To me, this is the first thing they need to fix. If the community can't play together easily, then they'll simply play alone - and get bored, and put in a different game. I really hope this is MM's number 1 priority to fix.

As for everything else, yeah, I think MM put a little too much emphasis on the "platform for games". People liked Story Mode because it was a solid platformer - not because they could play retro arcade games, or FPS. While those types of levels are incredibly impressive on a technical scale - I think most people treat them as a novelty. And it doesn't help that MM seems to be highlighting them - and pretty much given the sense that Platformer levels are not worthy of MM Picks. I continue to create whatever makes me happy - but I'm sure a lot of newer creators are taking note of the MM Picks and curtailing their focus accordingly.

I'm also surprised at the lack of DLC - or even the lack of complete hype for any upcoming DLC. Most games have DLC out the next week these days - MM quietly released a couple of costume packs and has been completely quite on anything of substance concerning future projects. Most of what we know about upcoming DLC was found out through people using backdoors to find it.

So, the first couple things MM could do - Fix the online issues and then get some new DLC (with levels, trophies, etc). I know they have a LOT on their plate with a massive amount of glitches to fix, so, hopefully, they will get to these things as soon as possible.		2011-04-10 18:14:00

Author:
CYMBOL
Posts: 1230

We need platform levels. No more gimmicks. I hope this "platform for games" thing is just a phase. That being said, I want to make it clear that I don't dislike non-platforming levels, I just think there are two many of them, and they aren't that fun.

"Hey, check out this really cool 50-layer Ultra 3D game level I made! Doesn't it look cool!?"

"Yeah... but it isn't any fun..."

This level's problem isn't that it's not a platformer, it's that it's not any fun. But hopefully with time people will grow accustomed to the new possibilities and release lots of quality levels of all genres.

You see, not everyone thinks platformers are the best genre ever. There haven't been any Play Create Share titles for RPG's, FPS'es etc, so it's only smart of Mm to expand LBP into that market. You platformer fans have been catered to for 2 years already. Why do you begrudge the rest now they finally get some attention?		2011-04-11 16:39:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

I actually starting to get a felling that platforming level are comeing back, there was ton of them on cool pages last week 2 got mm picked (if we count wizard as platformer).... and bobtox finishing his (platforming) level which is gonna be epic, just guys wait ;]2011-04-12 03:37:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

When it was first realesed about 45,000 people came on where I was ( North- West England) it quickly went down now I only get about 9000 people on as servers say. Everyone must want something alot more differant than LBP and didn't give it a shot.2011-04-12 13:44:00

Author:
dyna
Posts: 260

Im very platformer biased, but Ill try not to be for this post. Anyway, I do agree with Lockstitch somewhat; all that platform for games stuff really wasnt great of a marketing scheme, considering it really didnt come true in the end. All of the new logic and stuff like the controllinator give people excuses to make boring minigames with no point that you cant enjoy for more then 7 and a half seconds. Only a few select creators use the new logic to make true games. Otherwise, it gives everyone else the option of making a pointless minigame they didnt spend any time on. To make true games, which is what "they" said you would be able to do, you need lots of skill and knowledge. Yet people with out that attempt it anyway. Platformers have become much less frequent IMO, and also MM stopped picking platformers(except morganas sackrificed, which Im not sure was given just because it was awesome), and all of these new tools just give people excuses to stray away from them.2011-04-12 14:42:00

Author:
ATMLVE
Posts: 1177

All of the new logic and stuff like the controllinator give people excuses to make boring minigames with no point that you cant enjoy for more then 7 and a half seconds. Only a few select creators use the new logic to make true games. Otherwise, it gives everyone else the option of making a pointless minigame they didnt spend any time on. To make true games, which is what "they" said you would be able to do, you need lots of skill and knowledge. Yet people with out that attempt it anyway.

This exact same thing happened in LBP1, too. A lot of people couldn't be bothered to spend any time or effort and published bomb survivals or unchanged copies. To make a really good platformer you need lots of skill and knowledge, too. Now think back to when LBP1 was just released: compared to late 2010 those levels weren't all that great either. People had to discover how to make things look good and tell stories in the LBP1 engine, how to make good platforming gameplay. Now people need to figure out all the other types of game play.

So give the community some time to figure this stuff out (I can recommend gamasutra.com design features to help speed it up), and just accept that there will always be lazy people publishing tripe.		2011-04-12 15:15:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

I do need to note that I am no longer concerned about the lack of platformers on LBP2. As the novelty of the new tools has worn off perhaps, I seem to be noticing some great platforming levels being put out by a good number of people.2011-04-12 15:27:00

Author:
Lockstitch
Posts: 415

When it was first realesed about 45,000 people came on where I was ( North- West England) it quickly went down now I only get about 9000 people on as servers say. Everyone must want something alot more differant than LBP and didn't give it a shot.

Well back then it was fresh game and eveybody played it in same moment, now once thy complited they not play it so often. LBP1 also was baleing on same numbers around 10k and kick on weekend		2011-04-12 15:32:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

I'm not too concerned about the number of players out there.... I'm seeing TONS of plays on all kinds of levels.

As for platformers versus other types of levels.... The thing that excites me about LBP2 is the amount of creativity that is being unleashed think about this:

1. CompherMC's Wizard - the possibilities boggle the mind. The ability to completely build your own mechanics from the ground up and toss away the normal LittleBigPlanet platforming conventions? Seriously - with the level linking, a full set of levels could CERTAINLY be on par with professionally designed games.

2. Arcade games - as of right now, many of the arcade games have been duplicates of other arcade games.... but I'm looking forward to TOTALLY ORIGINAL arcade concepts that none of us have seen before - with a minimal development time. I've got one in my head right now, but haven't had time to really get it into the game - but I have a feeling we'll be seeing some incredible creations. I was pretty excited while building Vectroids of the possibility of not re-creating Asteroids, but instead being able to tweak it into it's own unique "thing" that has a completely different feel than the game it was inspired by.... which, I think, is part of the key to making it worth plugging in LBP2 - if a game is unique unto itself, it's worth playing as it's own creation.

3. I've never really considered LBP to be a replacement for a large quality-built commercial game, but let's face it - EVERYONE should own a copy at least to pop it in and run throw smaller experiences. In fact, I'd go so far as to say LBP2 isn't in competition with any other game - it can co-exist beside all the other commercial games as it's own unique experience.		2011-04-13 01:12:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

This level's problem isn't that it's not a platformer, it's that it's not any fun. But hopefully with time people will grow accustomed to the new possibilities and release lots of quality levels of all genres.

You see, not everyone thinks platformers are the best genre ever. There haven't been any Play Create Share titles for RPG's, FPS'es etc, so it's only smart of Mm to expand LBP into that market. You platformer fans have been catered to for 2 years already. Why do you begrudge the rest now they finally get some attention?

I don't have a problem with other genres. In fact, I only have a problem with people making non-platforming levels on a platforming game.You mention that "There haven't been any Play Create Share titles for RPG's, FPS'es etc"; that's my point. LBP2 is, despite its good level editor, still a 2.5D platformer, and this causes limitations. I feel like, since LBP can't make good enough levels of other genres, there is no point in making them, because they won't be any fun.

The fact is, despite the 'platform for games' tagline, LBP2 is still a platformer at heart. It's like when people make remakes of things like pac-man on LBP2. I didn't pay for an expensive PS3 and game so I can play sub-par remakes of old games that I can easily find elsewhere, even if I did want to play the originals in the first place. And the sad thing is, even when people try to make original games of their own, there are still constraints, and few of those games are really worth playing. In the end, LittleBigPlanet is LittleBigPlanet.
Do you even play the side levels in the main path story that are minigames? I played them only for the prizes; Gobotron was terrible, and the co-ops I played alone. (The multi-player is broken anyway.)


I'm not too concerned about the number of players out there.... I'm seeing TONS of plays on all kinds of levels.

As for platformers versus other types of levels.... The thing that excites me about LBP2 is the amount of creativity that is being unleashed think about this:

1. CompherMC's Wizard - the possibilities boggle the mind. The ability to completely build your own mechanics from the ground up and toss away the normal LittleBigPlanet platforming conventions? Seriously - with the level linking, a full set of levels could CERTAINLY be on par with professionally designed games.

2. Arcade games - as of right now, many of the arcade games have been duplicates of other arcade games.... but I'm looking forward to TOTALLY ORIGINAL arcade concepts that none of us have seen before - with a minimal development time. I've got one in my head right now, but haven't had time to really get it into the game - but I have a feeling we'll be seeing some incredible creations. I was pretty excited while building Vectroids of the possibility of not re-creating Asteroids, but instead being able to tweak it into it's own unique "thing" that has a completely different feel than the game it was inspired by.... which, I think, is part of the key to making it worth plugging in LBP2 - if a game is unique unto itself, it's worth playing as it's own creation.

3. I've never really considered LBP to be a replacement for a large quality-built commercial game, but let's face it - EVERYONE should own a copy at least to pop it in and run throw smaller experiences. In fact, I'd go so far as to say LBP2 isn't in competition with any other game - it can co-exist beside all the other commercial games as it's own unique experience.

Even in Wizard, you play as a sackboy. In a 2.5D platformer. With round checkpoints. And scorebubbles.

While LBP2 can make arcade games, I've only seen a few that are really fun; hopefully this will change.

And your right, it is not a replacement. It is LittleBigPlanet. Creators need to embrace that.		2011-04-22 02:53:00

Author:
Stoicrow
Posts: 276

I woud like to flip it around and look at it from a different angle: I LOVE the new logic tools and how they allow me so much freedom as a creator to create the levels I want to play myself.
I get so much joy out of that and this also means that I don't create mainly for other people to like it.
I create for those who actually appreciate that genre of levels and that shows on the play counter, but I couldn't care less.

If you mainly like platformers designed for 4 regular sack players: Create them yourself and share them with your friends.

For me LBP2 is a clean slate and a new set of crayons that sit much better in my hand than the ones I was given to draw with in LBP1.		2011-04-22 03:03:00

Author:
Discosmurf
Posts: 210

Yeah halp ps3 people cant log in! so maby some people just cant play!2011-04-22 11:02:00

Author:
Squidge99
Posts: 203

Yeah halp ps3 people cant log in! so maby some people just cant play!
Nobody can. PSN is down for maintenance.		2011-04-22 14:23:00

Author:
lemurboy12
Posts: 842

I don't have a problem with other genres. In fact, I only have a problem with people making non-platforming levels on a platforming game.You mention that "There haven't been any Play Create Share titles for RPG's, FPS'es etc"; that's my point. LBP2 is, despite its good level editor, still a 2.5D platformer, and this causes limitations. I feel like, since LBP can't make good enough levels of other genres, there is no point in making them, because they won't be any fun.

The fact is, despite the 'platform for games' tagline, LBP2 is still a platformer at heart. It's like when people make remakes of things like pac-man on LBP2. I didn't pay for an expensive PS3 and game so I can play sub-par remakes of old games that I can easily find elsewhere, even if I did want to play the originals in the first place. And the sad thing is, even when people try to make original games of their own, there are still constraints, and few of those games are really worth playing. In the end, LittleBigPlanet is LittleBigPlanet.
Do you even play the side levels in the main path story that are minigames? I played them only for the prizes; Gobotron was terrible, and the co-ops I played alone. (The multi-player is broken anyway.)

It happens to every game with enough advance editor, it's natural. Look on Warcraft and Starcraft games, most map created are UMSes and most of them don't have anything to do with RTS. Just deal with it, creators wants to challenge themselves to make things that potentially are impossible ;]

Besides there a group that are not good on making platfromers... im one of them, you gonna shoo us away just because of that? 		2011-04-22 20:09:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

LBP2 is, despite its good level editor, still a 2.5D platformer, and this causes limitations. I feel like, since LBP can't make good enough levels of other genres, there is no point in making them, because they won't be any fun.

You present this as if it's a fact, but it's just your opinion. LittleBigPlanet isn't a platformer editor, it's a 2.5D side view with physics engine with a sackboy avatar that happens to have platformer controls. However, you don't have to use these controls, and even in LBP1 there were levels that didn't. For example, IceMaiden's levels aren't really platformer levels, some don't even require any jumping. Are they bad then, or unfit for LBP? And now LBP2 gives us the ability to create our own control schemes, so how can you claim LBP2 is a platformer designer?

I do think that sackboy is a big part of the LittleBigPlanet experience, and I can imagine some people don't like it when they're not playing as him. So let's make side-scrolling hack-and-slash controls for sackpeople, or turn-based combat controls. Wizard is going that direction, but it's still choosing to including jump gameplay. If someone wants to abandon jumping, that doesn't mean it can't be fun, or isn't LBP anymore. Sure, there will always be areas where LBP is better and areas where it's lacking a bit, but I think there is definitely room for more than one genre here.


Do you even play the side levels in the main path story that are minigames? I played them only for the prizes; Gobotron was terrible, and the co-ops I played alone.

I didn't enjoy Gobotron either, but it's just not my kind of game. On the other hand, I did like the puzzle level where you controlled two sackbots at the same time, and I enjoyed the side-scrolling bee shooters. These levels aren't good or bad because they're not platformers, they're just a different taste.		2011-04-22 22:33:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

OP:

Population? When PSN is down?

XDDDD		2011-04-24 19:28:00

Author:
Cronos Dage
Posts: 396

OP:

Population? When PSN is down?

XDDDD

This thread was made when PSN was up ;]		2011-04-24 23:26:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

The casual crowd was attracted by the novelty of the first game, while the sequel is followed mostly by the fans. LBP 2 biggest improvements are in the create department which is fully appreciated by a small part of the fanbase, while many casual players who bought LBP 1 saw LBP 2 just as more of the same and didn't jump in.

Don't forget that at the time of LBPs announcement PS3 was hurting for good quality games that stood out from the pack of the next gen GRAPHIX!!! deluge.

And without opening a XBOX vs. PS3 debate there was an edge of fanboyism for a game-that-you-could-make-your-own-games-and-you-only-have-FPSs-and-this-uses-blu-ray, which has died down a lot now. (Or maybe I just have gotten really good at avoiding to read that stuff).

The actual platforming game of LBP, while it was good and quite charming was not phenomenal... it didn't really make me want to run out and buy more of the same. To me the new tool set is what bought me back.		2011-05-13 14:37:00

Author:
Mr_Fusion
Posts: 1799

OP:

Population? When PSN is down?

XDDDD

Posting without checking when the OP post was written, thus making an invalid remark and effectively making a fool out of yourself?

XDDDD		2011-05-13 15:35:00

Author:
Silverleon
Posts: 6707

In the short time i've owned both LBP and LBP2, i have to agree.

The base for creating in LBP seemed alot more focuesed on platformers since the logic was difficult and the creativity simple. Now in LBP2 most platformers are lost under a sea of sackbots and top-down shooters which disapoints me. There are plenty of old arcade games where you can play pac-man and tetris, so why bring them to LBP2 and ruin the platforming fun?

It also appealed to me that Mm planned for platforming to die. You may be asking why I think that, this is my view. Whilst LBP was a great success, Mm would have wanted the second to be bigger, better and have far greater possiblitys than the first. They improve the logic to a better and more organized standard and introduce tech things such as holograms and sackbots. Just these two cry out for attention, and since they are new features, everyone will be wanting to try them and produce great popular levels, which Mm would have expected, therefore eliminating platformers.

This is why i admire those few creators out there who range in talents and creativity that create platformers to keep them alive for those of us who still enjoy what it is that LBP was original designed to be, a platforming series.

I honestly would hate to see platformers die out, and if it were ever to happen, LBP would be nothing to me.

That's my opinion, i'd like to know if you agree, and if not, what's your opinion?		2011-05-13 21:26:00

Author:
Unknown User


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