Archive: 66 posts

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It's really gotten out of hand. Seems like one in every 4 levels I check out to play says, "Just a demo", "Not finished", "This level is a quarter done, but if everyone likes it I'll finish it". It's like people don't have the patience to finish their level and bug test it and want immediate gratification - that they are putting out partial levels. Heck, even one of the MM Picks is listed as "demo" - maybe that encouraged this new practice. In a way - I think some people are using it to get more plays and hearts. Release a teaser trailer (which is fine - if you are creating a series and want to get community awareness, etc., that's cool). But after the teaser, we get the full trailer - then, we get the level done at 1/4. Then, we get the level done at half. I keep seeing some of the same people's levels on the Cool Pages and it's the same level, over and over at different stages. Mainly though, it seems to be a case of people being lazy. Now, they release a level - and don't even half to really finish or polish it - just put, "demo" and all if forgiven.

2011-03-29 16:27:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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There's a poem about this (http://oldpoetry.com/opoem/show/43542-Charles-Bukowski-So-You-Want-To-Be-A-Writer), but I only half-remember it (and only half-agree).

2011-03-29 16:34:00 Author: Kanada Ten Posts: 87

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I just read the post and noticed the first half of Jumper in your signature and for a split/second i believed you actually released half finished levels By the way i guess most people aren't dedicated enough to fully go through the creation of a level, and when they get something they feel is good they never bother to complete the whole package and release what they have done so far. The cool pages are full of these examples so more and more people will do it in the future.

2011-03-29 16:42:00 Author: Vergil Posts: 155

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I'm working on a level called "Empty Level (DEMO)" its not finished, but if people like my Empty Level level, I might think about releasing more empty levels in future. I hate it to, and have seriously thought about actually doing what I've typed above. Its an excuse to release unfinished, and sometimes very buggy levels, cause its only a "test" or "demo".

2011-03-29 16:49:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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I just read the post and noticed the first half of Jumper in your signature and for a split/second i believed you actually released half finished levels By the way i guess most people aren't dedicated enough to fully go through the creation of a level, and when they get something they feel is good they never bother to complete the whole package and release what they have done so far. The cool pages are full of these examples so more and more people will do it in the future. Hehe, that's funny. I only wanted the first half recorded - so it stops at the level link. I find that when I watch a video of the full level - even if it is amazing, I don't feel the need to play it since I'v e seen the whole thing. I wanted to leave some mystery - so, yes - there is indeed a second half.

2011-03-29 16:50:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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Well...i dont see how its a bad thing..I mean why is it? Demo, teasers, trailer or Gallery, Sightseeing level, there pretty short etc, but they all rock I really dont see how its a bad thing, I recently played this crazy Ninja tech demo and wowzers . You guys should check it out if you like ninja gaiden or shinobi. But there all good, I mean after all there gonna be deleted and replaced soon right?, The Lost, although it was a Demo, heck it was crazy good O_O and it build up alot of hype, you can bet the creator is gonna replace that demo with the full levels soon. It just a way to build hype, just like Game people release demo and trailers on psn its pretty much the same thing.

2011-03-29 16:57:00 Author: Bloo_boy Posts: 1019

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This is because of the beta of the game and Media Molecule. The beta did set this mode and since people realised it works and you still get the rewarding part (plays, hearts, etc), people continue the trend. It will take a LONG time to get rid of it, just like the H4H in LBP1. In the beta, Media Molecule warned that people wouldn't keep their level in the final game, this is what created this mode that we now have a hard time getting rid off. Best strategy is to never play, comment or rate any of those levels. It's the only way for this mode to disappear. Do your part.

2011-03-29 17:06:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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It just a way to build hype, just like Game people release demo and trailers on psn its pretty much the same thing. Ah, but those demos are (usually) released when the full game is finished (or very nearly finished). That's very different to releasing a level as you go along. It's more like a beta than a demo. Personally (and as I ranted about at great length in a similar thread some time ago) I always make my levels as finished as possible. It may take months, but I'd hate to publish something if I'm not 100% happy that's it's complete.

2011-03-29 17:18:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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The REAL problem is levels that are TOO done. I mean, let's face it.... Jumper was LONG! Couldn't the creator of Jumper have built a nice, short DEMO so I didn't have to take so darn long to finish it????? I mean, seriously.... Also, it could have used a bit less jumping.... I almost gave it a sad face because I thought it was going to be based on the movie..... I expected Hayden Christensen.....

2011-03-29 17:31:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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The REAL problem is levels that are TOO done. I mean, let's face it.... Jumper was LONG! Couldn't the creator of Jumper have built a nice, short DEMO so I didn't have to take so darn long to finish it????? I mean, seriously.... Also, it could have used a bit less jumping.... I almost gave it a sad face because I thought it was going to be based on the movie..... I expected Hayden Christensen..... You have a point - next time, I'll release it in stages - each level will have one bounce pad - don't want to wear anybody out.

2011-03-29 17:40:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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Yeah. Tech demos in particular I find *eye roll*-ish. I know what you're thining... BUT FOOFLES DIDn'T YOU DO ALL THAT STUPID RAYCASTER 3D MUMBO JUMBO STUFF IN THE BETA?!? Yeah. The beta. Knowing that it would only last a week, those tech demos were just there to experiment with the game. My levels now are very much full gaming experiences and not just mere tech demos. Tech demos are not impressive experiences overall. I remember as soon as the 3D cam was first "Gifted to the community" everyone and their dog published a quick and dirty tech demo of it to show how awesome they are. Puh-leeze

2011-03-29 18:03:00 Author: Foofles Posts: 2278

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Yeah. Tech demos in particular I find *eye roll*-ish. I know what you're thining... BUT FOOFLES DIDn'T YOU DO ALL THAT STUPID RAYCASTER 3D MUMBO JUMBO STUFF IN THE BETA?!? Yeah. The beta. Knowing that it would only last a week, those tech demos were just there to experiment with the game. My levels now are very much full gaming experiences and not just mere tech demos. Tech demos are not impressive experiences overall. I remember as soon as the 3D cam was first "Gifted to the community" everyone and their dog published a quick and dirty tech demo of it to show how awesome they are. Puh-leeze Yeah, a very good example. The 3D cam - everyone and their brother posted a 30 second game to "show" how the 3D cam might be used. Ugh! And not only that - but get thousands of plays. At least people like Steve Big Guns actually published a fully realized level using it - not just another "you could use it this way - but I'll let someone else actually spend the time to make a real level using it." I think a lot of people who have successful "demos" that get lucky and get caught on Cool Pages and get tons of plays - never even finish it. Why would they? Or, I see people releasing the same "demo" over and over - with a very, minor update. It just seems to be another tool for cheap plays.

2011-03-29 18:11:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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Going along with the reasons everyone else above has listed. I'd like to add that a lot of people get an idea, and they think someone is going to beat them to the punch, so they throw together something quick to show it off. See, look what I did, and I did it first!!

2011-03-29 18:53:00 Author: smasher Posts: 641

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Oh yeah, people who publish demos... I hate those guys

2011-03-29 19:44:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Tech demos are fine in my eyes, but I wouldn't be interested in playing half a story only to wonder if and when I will ever get to see the conclusion. Nobody's getting their hands on Space Assassins 2 until it's 100% ready and exhaustively playtested by my slaves...um...I mean friends.

2011-03-29 19:50:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Going along with the reasons everyone else above has listed. I'd like to add that a lot of people get an idea, and they think some one is going to beat them to the punch, so they throw together something quick to show it off. See, look what I did, and I did it first!! Theres two sides to this, as I could easily make a demo for my RPG, just to say i was the first to do alot of stuff in the game, but i dont see level publishing as a competition; Those people do. I never understood people obsession with virtual hearts, i guess thats probably why im not having a demo for my game. Its more the thrill of finishing thats worth it imo Its quite sad actually, as each trailer or teaser makes the game less interesting, because people generally lose any element of surprise. If i watched someone play Frozen Flame or seen a trailer showcasing the game, without having played it first, it wouldnt have been as enjoyable because i've seen alot from the game and know what features to expect. Theres nothing wrong with teasers-- my sig is a teaser, but you dont see me making a entire level of it.Its not that its more annoying than H4H--maybe, but its the simple fact that teasers and trailers will ruin your un-made games overall reception more than it would widen it. On the other hand, take something like Chree's FF 7 Project, i see why she made a trailer. Its a large game and she simply wanted some help--needs it for an idea that big. She didnt ask for hearts, or plays, it was more showing off a concept. And if she never made a trailer, its possible someone else would have made a remake FF 7, making the whole concept less intriguing. I, in fact, probably would have made an FF game myself if i had not seen trailers or heard about all the FF projects here. Thats an example of the power a simple teaser or trailer, versus how its often used ineffectively within the LBP community. Theres nothing wrong with protecting your ideas. Over exposure on the other hand, isnt a good idea(especially demos)

2011-03-29 20:14:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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I just lol when I see the overreactions people have to some "tech demo" levels... But... some things do make sense. When people demo gameplay systems like RPG combat systems or something else big and tedious for feedback, that's understandable. It's just funny to see all the glitched cam schmattas have all htose "OMG THIS IS AMAZING MM PICK" Comments... it seems people forget to take their LBP1 goggles off sometimes I can't say I care much what people choose to publish, I didn't even notice bomb survivals for the longest time.

2011-03-29 20:21:00 Author: Foofles Posts: 2278

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they want to make sure that there lvls are non bugy no glitchs and that sort of thing but some lvls i think its stupid but sackbot lvls can have demos

2011-03-29 20:27:00 Author: danger sackboy Posts: 177

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Cymbol has a point, in that the LBP2 servers are being littered with unfinished projects and demos that serve little purpose other than to snag a bunch of free plays. I have nothing against tech demos when they showcase new, interesting mechanics, although it's lame how often one tech demo is ripped off by a hundred people (*cough*3D cam*cough*). I certainly won't hate on the demos for big projects (i.e. Skyrim) because the mechanics take time to workout and it's clearly important to get a lot of feedback on the system before 1000 hours are spent building an entire game around it. Most of what we're seeing is garbage that results from Mm rewarding players for achievements. Scams to rack up 500k plays is the new H4H. Welcome to hell, kids.

2011-03-29 20:31:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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(even comphermc has got a demo out, and he's a well known and respected creator) I see the point of a demo if people are unsure about how the reception is going to be if they have a huge idea that is going to involve a lot of work. It would really suck to spend three months creating something everyone just hates. But those levels represent only a small miniscule fraction of the constantly increasing abundance of demos, betas and WIPs that are just put out there either because the creator got sick of creating or he/she is trying to beat someone to it with an idea or concept. I never play demos. But trailers, on the other hand, is a bit different(yeah yeah yeah, I know I got one myself..). They are more than often a bit more polished and serve to build interest about the creator's future level or series. So that I don't mind.

2011-03-29 20:43:00 Author: Discosmurf Posts: 210

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So hating H4H levels got boring and we now switch to hate demos? XD They aren't that bad, everyone got law to show some tech or concepts, people do that in other places too.Simply put LBP2 got so much complex as it allows to do more stuff specially in gameplay, so people do concepts and publish them after that they build up even more, thats IS NORMAL behavior in software developemnt. It only shows how LBP2 gone far. And it's not a trand that you can compire to H4H and need to be get rid off ( i don't know the hel someonel could get that idea). Now someone with balls, go ahead and tell me that Minecraft that is phoneman in gameing industry when it got released was complete game or if not tell me that this game is like H4H because it got released incomplete

2011-03-29 20:59:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Going along with the reasons everyone else above has listed. I'd like to add that a lot of people get an idea, and they think someone is going to beat them to the punch, so they throw together something quick to show it off. See, look what I did, and I did it first!! I'm sorry I was in a hurry when I posted this ^^^^ earlier. I didn't mention that I really don't have anything against demos. I was just giving another reason that wasn't mentioned yet. Why should I care if people put out demos. MM gives us 20 slots. If people want to use em up with demos more power to em. I do prefer full levels though.

2011-03-29 21:39:00 Author: smasher Posts: 641

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I've felt like the original poster, especially about demos that don't actually have something groundbreaking or experimental to warrant a beta publication (not to mention the copied tech demos). I can give a whole bunch of reasons why I don't like them, but most were mentioned by others already. And it doesn't matter, in the end anyone should be free to publish whatever they like (except empty levels and straight copies). If I don't like it, I don't play it.

2011-03-29 21:47:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Oh yeah, people who publish demos... I hate those guys Except you demo was more like a full game and was completley awesome! It doesnt count in these people's rant. lol

2011-03-29 22:56:00 Author: kabirdsall14 Posts: 180

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It isn't too hard to spot whether a demo is really a demo for the sake of feedback and refinement or if it is just a half baked piece of crud published for the sake of ringing hearts/plays/attention from it. Usually legitimate demos will not even mention getting plays, the description is usually very formal and simply gives you all the information about how to play and such, no asking for ratings. Most importantly they will be more concerned with getting feedback than with how their level fairs. A pseudo demo will usually over hype what is inside the level, sometimes promising prizes for plays. The most distinct indicator being the signature "DONT DISLIKE CAUSE IT IS A DEMO" usually indicates that this level is for plays/hearts/attention and not about refining anything, they will most likely keep this level and never publish a full version.

2011-03-29 23:14:00 Author: Littlebigdude805 Posts: 1924

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Oh yeah, people who publish demos... I hate those guys Yeah! Me too! Hopefully, if MM finds any of those levels, they' should ban them! Haha, (Rest of the comments not aimed at you). Ok, but seriously - just to clarify - I'm not against all demos or trailers - that was not a blanket statement. I appreciate the need for a teaser or trailer for a level series - they have worked a LONG time and want to make sure it wasn't all for nothing. I get the need to get community awareness. However, if it's not a level series - you probably don't need a movie level to show your regular level. My main issue is with the things like the 3D cam. So, we get a 20 second level basically saying, "Here's something I'm thinking of doing", or, "Here's an idea that I'm not going to finish", it's just enough to get you to go into the new "3D parkour" - and you jump over 2 obstacles and then to the scoreboard. At least make a LEVEL. Just gets a big "BOO" from me. And it's also annoying to see someone republishing the same level - 20% done. . . 40% done. . . 50% done. . . Heck, sometimes, both of those levels will be on the Cool Pages at once. Anyway, they are not as bad as H4H - but it feels cheap - and it's a shame to see so many get onto the Cool Pages with nothing more to offer than, "Look at me!" as a reward for playing. It isn't completely filling the Cool Pages. . . yet - I'm just hoping it doesn't become a larger trend. (Also, I wonder how many of those "demos" go on to become full fledged levels).

2011-03-29 23:38:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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At least people like Steve Big Guns actually published a fully realized level using it - not just another "you could use it this way - but I'll let someone else actually spend the time to make a real level using it." You should see what he's working on now :O

2011-03-30 01:45:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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I'm guilty of continuously updating levels and have even left a sign inside one, through at least 30 republishings, saying "Work In Progress" -- but only at the end, upon reaching the goal, so as not to make it a crutch or a lure. And I hope, as the general quality of my levels at any stage of completion will reflect, I am not using the message as an excuse, but to let people know that what they played will probably be different the next time around. I hadn't realized this was a widespread problem, mostly because I avoid any tell-tale signs of incomplete levels anyway, but I also am quite forgiving of such messages. I'd rather play a level that clearly states it's going to get better (even if it never does) than one that's half-baked and dropped on the world without a word. One more bit of defense of the practice (which is not to say I don't think it could be a problem): My son just started in the LBP community and without having seen any descriptions of other levels, he naturally wrote "this is an incomplete level" in his description. It's possible people are fishing for more plays, or trying to explain away bad design, but it's also not really untrue -- the levels that say this are, oftentimes, incomplete. That might be all the influence there is. At least the first time a person publishes. (A planet with stages stretching back a year with 20 different "incomplete" descriptions is hardly forgivable...) I actually encouraged my son to publish his level in an unpolished state, to get it out there for reviews. So that's on me. Karma-wise we got what we deserve, as it has languished in nosack's land with zero plays for over 72 hours. But I don't know if I can tell him next weekend never to do it again... that his complete dud of a level should never have been allowed to share the same webspace as everyone else... or at least that's the flipside to the argument, isn't it?

2011-03-30 08:18:00 Author: Unknown User

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I'm working on a level called "Empty Level (DEMO)" its not finished, but if people like my Empty Level level, I might think about releasing more empty levels in future. I hate it to, and have seriously thought about actually doing what I've typed above. Its an excuse to release unfinished, and sometimes very buggy levels, cause its only a "test" or "demo". I lol'd. Do eet! I would so play that, heart it, give it rave reviews and comments, and a big fat smiley face! Heck, I'd even suggest the level get it's own spotlight for the sheer brilliance and cahuna's to come up with and pub the idea! No seriously... I'm not kidding. Giddyup! I appreciate the need for a teaser or trailer for a level series - they have worked a LONG time and want to make sure it wasn't all for nothing. I get the need to get community awareness. However, if it's not a level series - you probably don't need a movie level to show your regular level. In most cases yes, but there are exceptions to the rule and the new gameplay elements and possibilities are quickly changing that. For example, I'm working on a series of levels myself. Truth is, they won't need a trailer level because I'm able to tell the story within the levels themselves. I'd though about it, but the chances are slim that I'll put more time into it just to make a trailer. At this point it would just be a nice little extra to generate interest and talk amongst the community. I'm also currently working on a top down game. Athough the back story isn't totally necessary, I still feel it will make the experience better for the players if they know why they are here shooting at all that stuff that's trying to kill them... other than "It's me or them". Sure I could just throw them in and they'd be happy enough blowing crap up, but I'd like to go that extra step for them and at least give them the option of knowing the back story so that they can immerse themselves that extra 2%... yes, it does so count. At first I wondered if this might be overkill, but not only does it give me a chance to experiment with other techniques and story telling devices, it gives me a reason to make my own little film.. which a fun challenge. I also learned recently that a friend of mine (who's level inspired me to re-visit this top down idea from a while back) is also planning to do a trailer type thing to give some back story for his own level. Smart move on his part. Is it necessary? Nope. Will it be worth it? Totally! It just solidifies that I was thinking straight when I began working on my own trailer. Truth is, I would love to include the trailer as part of the level... but my thermo freaking hates me! Therefore, I really need to make a trailer for this one level, which is not a series. Just saying, there are exceptions to the rule and I'm not even sure we should be putting trailers in the same category as Demo's at all. To the point of Demo's... most are useless and time wasters for me. Case in point, and sorry if anyone here is the author, but I played a few tech demo's yesterday that were confusing at best. I ran across a tech demo for a character belonging to a larger group of characters from a well known franchise. I played it, it was okay... but needed some work. I gave positive feedback stating what I thought could be changed and improved (which was tough considering that there was only one power to test out... and not much of an environment to test it in). I finished the level and was unexpectedly whisked off to a level link level, with lo and behold.. more tech demo's for all the other characters from the franchise that should have been in the previous level with the first character I just tested. I mean heck, there was almost all of the level left to put stuff in! Here I was, in a level full of level links to levels showcasing tech demo's for one character per level... each with only one sackbot power tech demo. What... the... ffffrrrriiiiiig? All in all, some of the demo's were nicely done, and the costumes looked great. But here we have one short level where you don't do anything except Press R2 and hold Direction to see the tech demo of one single power of the character. Wasn't that cool? Good... now get out. But before you go, I'ma send you back to the previous level so you can see my other levels that are the exact same as this one but with a different costume and one other tech demo of one cool powerup. Seriously... why not just throw all 10 characters into the same level and be done with it? It just got boring... and aggrivating. I was as constructive as possible with my criticism, but had to hold my tongue and not go anry mash on my keyboard. Hey, maybe this creator is new... or 6 yearls old... I don't konw, but you gotta' cut some slack here and there right? Truth is, these tech demo's were just a few sackbot abilities... none of which are new and have been done to death already. Certainly nothing the creator couldn't have looked at themselves and said "Yeah, that's pretty cool. If I change this part it will work better. Okay that's done... now to work on a level for all these characters. This is gonna' RAWK!!" Overall, I think a tech demo's purpose ought to be to get critical feedback only. Not to showcase, not to boast, not to be first. I have a few tricks up my sleeve that I refuse to show anyone but a few close pals who can keep it to themselves so that people actually appreciate them when they see them for the first time. I'd rather that than their reactions be, "Oh... this is that cool thing he did in his demo version, but it's not so cool now. It's kind of old and everyone else has ripped him off. Though, his still looks more polished than those other terrible tech demo's". My thoughts anyways.

2011-03-30 13:21:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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To be honest I don't mind these sort's of levels. It's there descecion, and i zay we should all respect that. A lot of people (Me included) Don't have the patience to create a full level. I tend to get bored halfway through than start a new project. Demo's build peoples stamina up.

2011-03-30 13:21:00 Author: Junkyardassissan Posts: 164

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I've published my Empty Level level, if you like it, I promise to make more Empty Level levels, if I get 500 hearts I will make it copyable. http://lbp.me/v/zhg016

2011-03-30 14:02:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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I've published my Empty Level level, if you like it, I promise to make more Empty Level levels, if I get 500 hearts I will make it copyable. http://lbp.me/v/zhg016 I played it with the alternate account I use to stealthly troll and bad rate through my friend's level and I must say it's quite awesome

2011-03-30 14:25:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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Added to queue.... you should make a showcase thread, Grant!

2011-03-30 14:30:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I've published my Empty Level level, if you like it, I promise to make more Empty Level levels, if I get 500 hearts I will make it copyable. http://lbp.me/v/zhg016 The OMG AWESOME!!! in the description alone deserves a happy face and a heart , however a couple of spelling mistakes would have made it better

2011-03-30 14:53:00 Author: Vergil Posts: 155

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Yeah, a very good example. The 3D cam - everyone and their brother posted a 30 second game to "show" how the 3D cam might be used. Ugh! And not only that - but get thousands of plays. At least people like Steve Big Guns actually published a fully realized level using it - not just another "you could use it this way - but I'll let someone else actually spend the time to make a real level using it." I think a lot of people who have successful "demos" that get lucky and get caught on Cool Pages and get tons of plays - never even finish it. Why would they? Or, I see people releasing the same "demo" over and over - with a very, minor update. It just seems to be another tool for cheap plays. Hmm.. I created the 3D Platforming Cam (which is basically Fubalicious's 3D cam but adjusted so that you see your Sackboy from behind, with a slight tilt, which can be used for exciting 3D platformers and 3D races in the vein of Sonic Heroes and such), and while I do agree that most of the demos were crappy... One of them in particular had an adjustment to the 3D Platforming Cam that was brilliant, and which I have implemented into the cam itself. (Some really nice custom controls) I also created my own demo for the 3D Platforming Cam, which is polished and has details. I called it "3D Platforming Cam Demo".. This thread made me realize that calling it "demo" makes everyone think it's a preview to something bigger, but it's not. It's a demonstration of the 3D Platforming Cam and how it can enhance your levels, so I will rename it to "3D Platforming Cam Demonstration" I do agree that people should not be lazy and only release half-finished levels.

2011-03-30 15:39:00 Author: robbit10 Posts: 450

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I've published my Empty Level level, if you like it, I promise to make more Empty Level levels, if I get 500 hearts I will make it copyable. http://lbp.me/v/zhg016 At first I was like "Woah!!" ... and then I was like "woooaaaaaahhhhhh.... " :eek: Playing this level was like being trapped inside the Mona Lisa's smile... beginning to end. Hopefully the final finished version of this demo will be longer, and less full! EDIT: Sorry, silly me... I meant have more empty... not less full.

2011-03-30 15:41:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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Its actually at the top of the trending list at the moment hahaha

2011-03-30 15:43:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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I've published my Empty Level level, if you like it, I promise to make more Empty Level levels, if I get 500 hearts I will make it copyable. http://lbp.me/v/zhg016 Ingenious. I hope the message isn't lost if it gets played into a top ranking list somewhere.

2011-03-30 15:47:00 Author: Unknown User

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Its actually at the top of the trending list at the moment hahaha You sound surprised!? Really man, you ought to be more proud of your work than to just laugh it off like this. You may not think it's all that and a box of Smarties, but trust me... Mm are going to stand up and take notice of THIS one.

2011-03-30 15:51:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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You forgot to include "DONT DISLIKE CAUSE IT IS A DEMO", though.

2011-03-30 16:48:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Hmm.. I created the 3D Platforming Cam (which is basically Fubalicious's 3D cam but adjusted so that you see your Sackboy from behind, with a slight tilt, which can be used for exciting 3D platformers and 3D races in the vein of Sonic Heroes and such), and while I do agree that most of the demos were crappy... This thread made me realize that calling it "demo" makes everyone think it's a preview to something bigger, but it's not. It's a demonstration of the 3D Platforming Cam and how it can enhance your levels, so I will rename it to "3D Platforming Cam Demonstration" I do agree that people should not be lazy and only release half-finished levels. That's a bit different - that was a new tool provided to the community that you made. Most of the other copy cat levels basically took that prize - added 10 seconds of gameplay and then gave away your prize. At least make an actual level if you're going to showcase how to use the new tool (like Steve Big Guns did with his recent level). Personally, I don't have a problem with people releasing demos - if it is to show off a new tool they are providing the community - otherwise - it's just a "Look at me!" level, and using a popular tool/name to get cheap plays.

2011-03-30 19:02:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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But are we not at the risk of this becoming the same stigma that is projected at the survival "genre"? That many crap survival challenges managed to get loads of exposure through LBP 1 caused many annoyance. These were largely bomb survival then shark survival, and individually each of these became practically curse words in LBP and it was a thing that even a well crafted bomb survival would be slated unfairly. Then it became the thing that any survival was considered sub-par, and pre-judged.

2011-03-30 19:10:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Truth is, I would love to include the trailer as part of the level... but my thermo freaking hates me! Therefore, I really need to make a trailer for this one level, which is not a series. Just saying, there are exceptions to the rule and I'm not even sure we should be putting trailers in the same category as Demo's at all. Well, that's not quite what I was referring to with the "trailers". My friend's level starts out with a movie - then level links to the game. Obviously, the thermo wouldn't allow for a big introduction - and MM does this as well in their story levels. If it's part of the story - then I don't see it as an issue. I'm talking about the level that I find on Cool Pages, that says, "25% done", and the next page down, also on Cool Pages, is the teaser trailer, and further down the Cool Pages is the level saying, "Updated". So, personally, I don't see what you're doing as bad. But I don't want to come off as the person who has final say for what's exceptable for demo's or trailers - I'm just giving my opinion like everyone else - there is no right or wrong in this. I just don't like to see the all the laziness being rewarded with plays, and all the people going specifically for cheap plays. And, my big worry is that it's going to get worse as these levels do well on the Cool Pages and get rewarded that it's going to become a regular way of publishing levels. That would suck.

2011-03-30 19:12:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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But are we not at the risk of this becoming the same stigma that is projected at the survival "genre"? That many crap survival challenges managed to get loads of exposure through LBP 1 caused many annoyance. These were largely bomb survival then shark survival, and individually each of these became practically curse words in LBP and it was a thing that even a well crafted bomb survival would be slated unfairly. Then it became the thing that any survival was considered sub-par, and pre-judged. Yes. I agree - but the community did that to themselves by continuing the trend of supporting these levels (even still I see these at the top of the Cool Pages in LBP1). So, if these trend deepens - that will likely be the backlash.

2011-03-30 19:17:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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I've published my Empty Level level, if you like it, I promise to make more Empty Level levels, if I get 500 hearts I will make it copyable. http://lbp.me/v/zhg016 Briliant - can't wait to play it! Should I turn off the lights and turn up the sound, or anything?

2011-03-30 19:18:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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Briliant - can't wait to play it! Should I turn off the lights and turn up the sound, or anything? Listen to Todd Snider's Talkin' Seattle Grunge Rock Blues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmxSMIN3-WI&feature=related) while playing.

2011-03-30 19:48:00 Author: Kanada Ten Posts: 87

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I only put one up to stop everyone asking about it, wouldnt post it in the levels thread

2011-03-30 20:14:00 Author: jump_button Posts: 1014

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I only put one up to stop everyone asking about it, wouldnt post it in the levels thread Jump_button, your demo was absolutly amazing though! But I am glad you made a demo because I was wondering if you were going to make a Sky Town for LBP2

2011-03-30 21:51:00 Author: kabirdsall14 Posts: 180

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Yeah, I agree. Demos were ok at first, since LBP2 was just getting into its roots, but now it's just getting ridiculous. :kz:

2011-03-30 22:11:00 Author: IronSkullKid99 Posts: 515

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I have to say that I released a beta version of a level that will not be done for a while. I was tired of trying to get feedback and failing. I placed a Beta level because I was not sure if the level was any good because the size of the LBP2 create zone is soo small for a jetfighter. And I also am happy to report that I got some good feedback and more smiles and hearts than the level I spent almost a year on. I am sure once the finished version is released I will get less play. But it may just be backlash from busting our hinders and not getting feedack or plays.

2011-03-31 02:18:00 Author: celsus Posts: 822

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I've published my Empty Level level, if you like it, I promise to make more Empty Level levels, if I get 500 hearts I will make it copyable. http://lbp.me/v/zhg016 *clicks on it and gets 404 (level deleted)* Daww I missed out on going to the epic level What happened? You didn't want to give out such an amazing level because you were close to 500 hearts?

2011-03-31 04:57:00 Author: JKthree Posts: 1125

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It's somewhat rewarding to think that your feedback has some input into making a level better and levels that are clearly unfinished are usually better candidates, especially if I also just want a taste of a possibly new play mechanic. I find I may be more likely to return to that level if I didn't have to slog through a dozen different obstacles to see something new/different. My experience as of late is that as a basic rule the more "finished" a creator considers his level, the less likely that creator will be receptive to any critical feedback.

2011-03-31 16:40:00 Author: Unknown User

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What was the new concept? I didn't get a chance to play it. I am making a sort of new concept and it would be a really big bummer if it was the same. You don't have to publish it again, just give an example of what it was like. Was it like any games that have been made before? Based off that song, I'm pretty confident it wasn't like my concept. Unless of course the song was ironic. :L

2011-03-31 16:54:00 Author: Devious_Oatmeal Posts: 1799

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I think people confuse Demos with Beta's. Beta's are for testing and finding out bugs and getting general feedback you want for whatever game or movie you create. Demos are shortened versions of complete games, meaning you already know what your doing. I have nothing against Beta's; im holding one on the weekend. I was never really for demos because you can easily take another month to fully complete the idea instead of releasing tons of demos. And some demos arent even demos; they are full games. Some people put" Demo" as an excuse to get more yays and hearts imo. People are so afraid to say "this level is complete" , when really thats the point of user content driven games. You can get feedback for complete games and still tweak it. Many console games today receive updates (like LBP2). Theres nothing that annoys me more than publishing unfinished work and asking for hearts, its like going to school and you have to turn in a 1000 word essay. Instead you hand the teacher a 300 word essay and ask the teacher " if you give me an A, i will add the remaining 700 words to the paper". Ok its a weird analogy, but im just saying these levels are mostly lazy, as most of them dont even finish it. Its just a sad excuse to gain hearts imo

2011-03-31 17:05:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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I just dont play them. Thats how i deal with Demo "Creators."

2011-03-31 21:47:00 Author: RtooDee2 Posts: 175

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Hey RPGmake, hit me up when your beta is out and I will test yours if you feel like taking mine for a spin too. I should have an updated beta with some of the newer things to test by then too.

2011-04-01 01:19:00 Author: celsus Posts: 822

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It's good as long as you overwrite over the previous version. Derp.

2011-04-01 01:20:00 Author: Cronos Dage Posts: 396

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in my opinion, trailers/series starters are ok, if it doesnt give the hole series away. If i would make a trailer to a level series, I would show its design. not saying " THE NINJA'S ARE ATTACKING THE VILLAGE, HELP US! WE HAVE TO DEFEAT LORD ZACZUBAKX!" they should give the the introduction to the story and not give all the themes and stuff at the start. another thing thats annoying is that some people are making beta keys for there WIP's and making people win contests for them.

2011-04-01 01:47:00 Author: Cactii Posts: 426

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Hey RPGmake, hit me up when your beta is out and I will test yours if you feel like taking mine for a spin too. I should have an updated beta with some of the newer things to test by then too. Probably would have been better to comment in the CB thread, to stay on topic, but i would love to test your game while you test mine. That sounds fun.

2011-04-01 14:25:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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Look the way I see it, demos, or BETAS are only good if the full version that you're going to make is gonna take a really long time to make. Kinda like my BETA for 8-Bit Wonderland. I knew from the very beggining that making this is gonna take months (Custom 8-Bit graphics, 5 levels, a hub world) so I released a brief demo to get it noticed, and see what to improve on before releasing it. It's called proper advetising. As long a the demo is leading to more than just 1 level then it's fine by me.

2011-04-01 22:12:00 Author: Unknown User

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But if there's too much time between the demo and the full game, anticipation will die out and people become ambivalent. See Gran Turismo 5. So if you're expecting a long time between demo and release, maybe a private test would be better.

2011-04-02 15:50:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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But if there's too much time between the demo and the full game, anticipation will die out and people become ambivalent. See Gran Turismo 5. You know you talking here about one of best selling games in this generation? :> so something is wrong here

2011-04-02 19:06:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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also, there should be a littlebigplanet law that the people who find out a glitch are the only aloud to make a tech demo about it. the rest are usually cruddy, unless if someone actually works.

2011-04-02 20:23:00 Author: Cactii Posts: 426

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You know you talking here about one of best selling games in this generation? :> so something is wrong here I don't know if it did well, t's just an example that sprang to mind from my own experience. GT5 was so hyped up for so long that I didn't care anymore. Feel free to insert an example that works for you.

2011-04-03 12:26:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Starwars Episode 1...but I think it still did good...just was hype.

2011-04-05 21:08:00 Author: celsus Posts: 822

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I likes dos demos

2011-04-06 00:56:00 Author: BonBonBoi Posts: 246

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