Archive: 16 posts

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Hey all, I'm trying to make a music level and I've stumbled upon a rather annoying problem The music piece I'm making is in 4/4 (dunno the english word, in dutch it's 'Maat&apos which is perfect for the sequencer but a piece in the song changes to 6/4, I couldn't find a way to change that so I decided to place a music sequencer within my existing sequencer which is played at a faster rate. Problem is for some weird reason when the first piece of the song is done and switches to the 6/4 part the sequencer refuses to play the first 4 notes which leave a rather annoying silence. I'm at loss Anyone knows how to either change to 6/4 or how to make the sequencer play from the start instead of skipping some notes, and yes the piano sequences are all the way to the left leaving no space It works perfect on my first sequencer but when you use a sequencer within another one, it skips notes :/

2011-03-27 23:01:00 Author: Dragonpurse Posts: 26

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I haven't found a way to transition instantly from one sequencer to another. If there is a way I would love to hear it. There's always the fade in / fade out which causes the skipping you described.

2011-03-27 23:13:00 Author: Linque Posts: 607

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Couldn't you just arrange it like this: 4/4|2/4 2/4|4/4 and so forth?

2011-03-27 23:24:00 Author: Discosmurf Posts: 210

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Couldn't you just arrange it like this: 4/4|2/4 2/4|4/4 and so forth? Well yes I have done this in a new sequencer which I have speeded up to match the 4/4 rhythm and it works but like Linque says, there's a fade in which cause the first few notes to be skipped, I have tried with sensors also, the skipping still remains. I was looking for a way to edit at 6/4 (12 dots per segment instead of 8) because if I do it like 4/2 + 2/4 it still plays but at same tempo as the 4/4 making it sound slower than the actual piece.

2011-03-27 23:27:00 Author: Dragonpurse Posts: 26

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Well yes I have done this in a new sequencer... He means in the same sequencer. I was looking for a way to edit at 6/4 (12 dots per segment instead of 8) because if I do it like 4/2 + 2/4 it still plays but at same tempo as the 4/4 making it sound slower than the actual piece. If you're changing from 4/4 to 6/4, then the tempo would be the same. By 6/4, do you actually mean you're using triplets? If so then you'll need to do something a bit more funky... If you make all your patterns of a 6-bar length, you get 48 possible note positions per pattern, which divides cleanly by 6 and 4, so you can time your notes as either regular notes, or triplets. You'd also have to increase the tempo by 50% to account for the timing.

2011-03-28 18:36:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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I have the same problem whenever I attach an on signal to my Magnum Opus ; It skips out all of the music sequence objects from the first bar... So it means I'm having great difficulty in getting it to trigger & play the first notes in the sequencer... very annoying; I did try moving all of the music objects along by one section - but then there seems to be a problem with the volume clipping - it sounds as if someone is just randomly turning the volume up & down. Anyone else noticed this kind of thing?

2011-03-28 18:41:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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If you make all your patterns of a 6-bar length, you get 48 possible note positions per pattern, which divides cleanly by 6 and 4, so you can time your notes as either regular notes, or triplets. You'd also have to increase the tempo by 50% to account for the timing. This I have done, I made a new sequencer with the triplets in them and speeded up the tempo, for like you said, the timing but when I want to play that new piece I made (the one with the triplets) it skips the first notes lemme try to show you with my pro paint skills. http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg150/Dragonpurse/lbptrouble.png Hope it clarifies a bit

2011-03-28 19:05:00 Author: Dragonpurse Posts: 26

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It skips out all of the music sequence objects from the first bar... This is a known bug with activating music boxes from a wired input. IIRC if you give it a large enough radius to cover the entire level, put it inside a Microchip, and enable it by enabling the chip, you don't lose the first few notes. This I have done, I made a new sequencer with the triplets in them and speeded up the tempo, for like you said, the timing but when I want to play that new piece I made (the one with the triplets) it skips the first notes lemme try to show you with my pro paint skills. I think you're missing the point. Embedding one sequencer inside another will never work. The solution I suggested was meant to be done in a single sequencer. Bearing that in mind, if you still don't understand what I meant in my previous post about 48 dividing by 6 and 4, then say so, and I'll go into a bit more detail.

2011-03-28 19:16:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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This is a known bug with activating music boxes from a wired input. IIRC if you give it a large enough radius to cover the entire level, put it inside a Microchip, and enable it by enabling the chip, you don't lose the first few notes. I will try the chip thingy and get back to you About the 6/4 thingy I believe you mean like this http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg150/Dragonpurse/lbptrouble2.png

2011-03-28 19:49:00 Author: Dragonpurse Posts: 26

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I will try the chip thingy and get back to you Probably won't work - there's always a fade out/in effect applied on transitions between music boxes, so you'll never get a smooth transition. About the 6/4 thingy I believe you mean like this... I have no idea what that means. Let's take a real-world example like this... http://www.virtualsheetmusic.com/images/first_pages/BIG/Chopin/FantaisieFirst_BIG.gif ...which is one of the most irritating things to play IMO, as you're timing every 4 notes in the right hand, with 3 notes in the left hand. In order to be able to put this into a single pattern in the music sequencer, then each note in the right hand must last for 3/4 of the length each note in the left hand, so you make the right-hand notes 3 units long, and the left-hand notes 4 units long, and it works, although each bar in the piece ends up being 6 bars in LBP. In your example, if you're timing 6 notes to 4, then a 2:3 ratio ought to work, so each of the 4/4 notes should be 3 units long, and each of the triplet notes should be 2 units, then they can happily coexist in a single pattern.

2011-03-28 21:14:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Probably won't work - there's always a fade out/in effect applied on transitions between music boxes, so you'll never get a smooth transition. I have no idea what that means. Let's take a real-world example like this... http://www.virtualsheetmusic.com/images/first_pages/BIG/Chopin/FantaisieFirst_BIG.gif ...which is one of the most irritating things to play IMO, as you're timing every 4 notes in the right hand, with 3 notes in the left hand. In order to be able to put this into a single pattern in the music sequencer, then each note in the right hand must last for 3/4 of the length each note in the left hand, so you make the right-hand notes 3 units long, and the left-hand notes 4 units long, and it works, although each bar in the piece ends up being 6 bars in LBP. In your example, if you're timing 6 notes to 4, then a 2:3 ratio ought to work, so each of the 4/4 notes should be 3 units long, and each of the triplet notes should be 2 units, then they can happily coexist in a single pattern. This is a bit off topic, but I've been meaning to mention it, and the Fantasy Impromptu is a great example of what's wrong with LBP's music sequencer -- and I think it might be an easy thing to improve. (Then again, it might be too taxing on the engine...) If you make each sixteenth note three units on the sequencer, as Aya suggested, that would make each beat 4x3 (12) units on the sequencer. Actually, the piece is in cut time, which means technically you need 24 (!) sequencer units for every single beat. Now, the sequencer can go up to 240 bpm, but that is assuming your beats are equal to four units on the sequencer. (Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe four units = one beat on the sequencer, as far as the tempo is concerned, no matter what you do). If you want your beats to be six times as long as that (24 instead of 4) you have to make the beats per minute six times higher than it would be if you were operating with beats lasting only 4 units. Because of this, your maximum effective tempo on the LBP music sequencer, when writing out the Fantasy Impromptu, is actually 240/6, or 40 beats per minute. Hardly "Allegro Agitato!" That's so slow it sounds like someone trying to learn the piece for the first time! Anyway, making the sequencer go much faster in tempo would completely solve this problem, and would allow the crazy ones among us access to the wonderful worlds of triplets, cross rhythms, and time signatures which we simply aren't able to achieve right now. I'd like to post this on get satisfaction, but it's a really annoying thing to try to explain from the beginning. Alex

2011-03-29 11:21:00 Author: Alic Posts: 81

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Probably won't work - there's always a fade out/in effect applied on transitions between music boxes, so you'll never get a smooth transition. I have no idea what that means. Let's take a real-world example like this... http://www.virtualsheetmusic.com/images/first_pages/BIG/Chopin/FantaisieFirst_BIG.gif ...which is one of the most irritating things to play IMO, as you're timing every 4 notes in the right hand, with 3 notes in the left hand. In order to be able to put this into a single pattern in the music sequencer, then each note in the right hand must last for 3/4 of the length each note in the left hand, so you make the right-hand notes 3 units long, and the left-hand notes 4 units long, and it works, although each bar in the piece ends up being 6 bars in LBP. In your example, if you're timing 6 notes to 4, then a 2:3 ratio ought to work, so each of the 4/4 notes should be 3 units long, and each of the triplet notes should be 2 units, then they can happily coexist in a single pattern. I thank you very much for the help you're giving and that piece you linked finally opened my eyes. I will update my current piece tell you how it goes, thanks a lot

2011-03-29 13:10:00 Author: Dragonpurse Posts: 26

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Actually, the piece is in cut time, which means technically you need 24 (!) sequencer units for every single beat. I tend to pretty much ignore the time signature, since it doesn't really make any odds from a sequencing POV. In MIDI sequencing, everything's generally expressed relative to a quarter note in a 4/4 time signature, so MIDI's (and LBP's) definition of BPM is technically QNPM (Quarter Notes Per Minute), and all the timings are based on PPQN (Pulses Per Quarter Note) which determines the maximum resolution of events. The only thing that really matters is ensuring it's possible to represent the shortest note used in the piece in an integer number of 'units' on the LBP sequencer, and given that the LBP sequencer only gives you 4 PPQN, and a maximum of 240 QNPM, you're pretty limited on the timings you can represent. If it's useful to the OP, here's a time signature equivalency image... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png/800px-12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png ...which might make more sense, i.e. that if you need to sequence triplets in a 4/4 time sig, if you think of it in a 12/8 time sig, and use 12 of LBP's 'units' per 'bar', then it might make more sense. Because of this, your maximum effective tempo on the LBP music sequencer, when writing out the Fantasy Impromptu, is actually 240/6, or 40 beats per minute. Hardly "Allegro Agitato!" That's so slow it sounds like someone trying to learn the piece for the first time! 40 BPM, but due to cut time it's 80 QNPM (or 80 BPM if expressed in 4/4 time). But, yeah, it's about half the speed it's supposed to be played at. Anyway, making the sequencer go much faster in tempo would completely solve this problem, and would allow the crazy ones among us access to the wonderful worlds of triplets, cross rhythms, and time signatures which we simply aren't able to achieve right now. That would be one option, but having to fudge the timings doesn't help where you want to easily re-use patterns in unusual time signatures, like Tubular Bells' 15/8. It would be more helpful, IMO, if we could just tweak the 'time signature' probably by adjusting the number of quarter notes per bar, and the PPQN on each pattern - given the limited UI for entering notes, you really don't want more visible resolution than you actually need. Then limiting the max QNPM to 240 is fine. I'd like to post this on get satisfaction, but it's a really annoying thing to try to explain from the beginning. There's one here (http://getsatisfaction.com/littlebigplanet/topics/adding_time_signature_settings_to_music_sequencers ).

2011-03-29 13:27:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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What I don't understand is why can't two copies of the exact same music sequencer with different channel volumes work like the IntMusic object. I would like to make my own IntMusic and adjust the channel volumes during gameplay, but I haven't been able to do it without causing the fade out / fade in effect.

2011-03-29 15:24:00 Author: Linque Posts: 607

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There's one here (http://getsatisfaction.com/littlebigplanet/topics/adding_time_signature_settings_to_music_sequencers ). There's also one here (http://getsatisfaction.com/littlebigplanet/topics/music_sequencer_triplet_feature_support), just for triplet support, started by yours truly. Time signature support would be nice, but mostly I'd just like to see triplet support. Triplets are far more common than pieces in 15/8 or 5/4. Currently, you can emulate a lot of common time signatures using the tempo trick or other means. I've had to work around some of these very limitations in my music, too. The fact is the music sequencer currently has a lot of limitations, and there's simply some music that you just can't do as a result. Hopefully this will change.

2011-03-29 16:10:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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I tend to pretty much ignore the time signature, since it doesn't really make any odds from a sequencing POV. In MIDI sequencing, everything's generally expressed relative to a quarter note in a 4/4 time signature, so MIDI's (and LBP's) definition of BPM is technically QNPM (Quarter Notes Per Minute), and all the timings are based on PPQN (Pulses Per Quarter Note) which determines the maximum resolution of events. The only thing that really matters is ensuring it's possible to represent the shortest note used in the piece in an integer number of 'units' on the LBP sequencer, and given that the LBP sequencer only gives you 4 PPQN, and a maximum of 240 QNPM, you're pretty limited on the timings you can represent. If it's useful to the OP, here's a time signature equivalency image... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png/800px-12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png ...which might make more sense, i.e. that if you need to sequence triplets in a 4/4 time sig, if you think of it in a 12/8 time sig, and use 12 of LBP's 'units' per 'bar', then it might make more sense. 40 BPM, but due to cut time it's 80 QNPM (or 80 BPM if expressed in 4/4 time). But, yeah, it's about half the speed it's supposed to be played at. That would be one option, but having to fudge the timings doesn't help where you want to easily re-use patterns in unusual time signatures, like Tubular Bells' 15/8. It would be more helpful, IMO, if we could just tweak the 'time signature' probably by adjusting the number of quarter notes per bar, and the PPQN on each pattern - given the limited UI for entering notes, you really don't want more visible resolution than you actually need. Then limiting the max QNPM to 240 is fine. There's one here (http://getsatisfaction.com/littlebigplanet/topics/adding_time_signature_settings_to_music_sequencers ). Yeah, if they'd rather make triplets and time signatures accessible through the tweak menu, that would be amazing I was just trying to point out that the tempo is technically the only thing keeping us back from writing more complex rhythms. But I'd absolutely prefer the tweaks you suggested, since it makes it much easier to work with. Also, thanks for that get satisfaction link -- that's exactly what I was looking for! Knowing that there are other people out there aware of these rather large limitations is heartening. Maybe I will someday be able to make my Mozart Sonata in F, KV 332 sequencer.... There's also one here (http://getsatisfaction.com/littlebigplanet/topics/music_sequencer_triplet_feature_support), just for triplet support, started by yours truly. Time signature support would be nice, but mostly I'd just like to see triplet support. Triplets are far more common than pieces in 15/8 or 5/4. Currently, you can emulate a lot of common time signatures using the tempo trick or other means. I've had to work around some of these very limitations in my music, too. The fact is the music sequencer currently has a lot of limitations, and there's simply some music that you just can't do as a result. Hopefully this will change. Bumped your suggestion! Thanks for posting about it -- I've been sad about the lack of triplets (and the fact that any workaround means you're limited to slow tempos) for weeks now. Maybe we can get enough musicians together to convince them triplets are, in fact, an important part of music Alex

2011-03-29 19:15:00 Author: Alic Posts: 81

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