Archive: 24 posts

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Well i think that they shouldn't, It would Make publishing levels far more flexible. What do you think? Discuss.

2011-03-22 14:26:00 Author: Tawarf Posts: 457

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Well i think that they shouldn't, It would Make publishing levels far more flexible. What do you think? Discuss. The flaw in this argument is simple. If sub-levels did not count as real levels, then you would be able to make an endless game with endless sub-levels and overload MM's servers to the point of overwhelming bloat. Placing a limit on the number of levels and sub-levels you can publish forces you, as a creator, to be conservative and use your thermo and plan your level's design wisely.

2011-03-22 14:36:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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I think they shouldn't be count but as schm0 pointed out limitless amount of sub-levels shouldn't be allowed. There should be like 20 sub-level spaces and 20 normal level spaces but you could sacrifice normal slots for sub-level slots.

2011-03-22 16:41:00 Author: waD_Delma Posts: 282

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I think they shouldn't be count but as schm0 pointed out limitless amount of sub-levels shouldn't be allowed. There should be like 20 sub-level spaces and 20 normal level spaces but you could sacrifice normal slots for sub-level slots. I like the idea of 20 sub-levels and 20 Normal levels. It would work nicely.

2011-03-22 16:55:00 Author: Tawarf Posts: 457

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Hmmm all depends how LBP servers stand :>

2011-03-22 16:59:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Or maybe there could be a limit of one sub-level per normal level, and additional ones begin to take level slots.

2011-03-22 17:17:00 Author: gdn001 Posts: 5891

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I like the idea of 20 sub-levels and 20 Normal levels. It would work nicely. Except it would effectively double the server space needed to store all of these levels. I'm sure Media Molecule has chosen the number 20 to ensure that their servers could handle the bandwidth and volume accordingly. The other point I was trying to make is that whenever the level limit comes up as a topic, I am always keen to ask the creator: is there anything you could do to reduce the number of levels you'd need to achieve your concept? And if the answer is "No," then my response is this: perhaps LBP is not the correct medium for what you'd like to achieve, or that what you are trying to achieve would work better if you forced yourself to make sacrifices, scaling your concept down to something that will work within the medium. Personally, I feel that 20 is more than enough level "slots" to give to a player.

2011-03-22 17:33:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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If you're really struggling for space, publish the sub level on another PSN account and send a level link to your main PSN account.

2011-03-22 17:39:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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How many people even use all 20 slots that are all good levels anyways? while i love to have more space if needed, i don't see it happening. so ya do what Doopz said if you ever need more room then add a hub level that links to all your levels on the other PSN, just delete the hub level whenever you add a new level and re upload it, so that way it'll keep being able to go on cool page so people can see the hub level whenever one of your new levels are out. *mew

2011-03-22 17:46:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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I agree with reasons already brought up on why sub-levels should be counted. However, the argument of someone getting 20 normal level slots then 20 sub-level slots being too much for the servers seems rather invalid. We get 40 slots already, 20 for LBP1, and 20 for LBP2. If I go make another PSN account, that's yet another 40 slots I've got on the servers for both games, making 80 in total and 40 per game between both PSN accounts. If someone can make multiple PSN accounts to get more that 20 LBP2 level slots for themselves (which I've seen done) and not overload the servers, I don't get why the argument of 40 slots on one account for LBP2 would overload them. If I have 40 slots on two accounts, or 40 slots on one account, it's the same total either way. So how is it possible that having 40 slots to one account does anything more to the servers that using two accounts does?

2011-03-22 17:50:00 Author: Moonface Posts: 310

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I agree with reasons already brought up on why sub-levels should be counted. However, the argument of someone getting 20 normal level slots then 20 sub-level slots being too much for the servers seems rather invalid. We get 40 slots already, 20 for LBP1, and 20 for LBP2. If I go make another PSN account, that's yet another 40 slots I've got on the servers for both games, making 80 in total and 40 per game between both PSN accounts. If someone can make multiple PSN accounts to get more that 20 LBP2 level slots for themselves (which I've seen done) and not overload the servers, I don't get why the argument of 40 slots on one account for LBP2 would overload them. If I have 40 slots on two accounts, or 40 slots on one account, it's the same total either way. So how is it possible that having 40 slots to one account does anything more to the servers that using two accounts does? Not everyone will bother to make multiple accounts for extra space, however if we are given extra space anyway, a lot more people will use this space just because it's there. Which then adds up to more levels being published.

2011-03-22 18:06:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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Not everyone will bother to make multiple accounts for extra space, however if we are given extra space anyway, a lot more people will use this space just because it's there. Which then adds up to more levels being published. I could suggest the idea of something like paying for more space, but then that simply leads to the same method everyone does now to get more space and that's to make a new PSN account. I see your point on how everyone getting 40 LBP2 slots will just abuse them, which is a shame.

2011-03-22 18:13:00 Author: Moonface Posts: 310

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If anything extra level slots should be given to those who don't use sub-levels. Being a creator of mostly minigames, most of my levels use very little level space and (sometimes) little thermo space. The 20 level limit is a much bigger problem for me than someone who fills levels to the max and needs to carry things over into sub-levels. IMO the best thing to do, which I think there was a discussion about some months ago, is give everyone a file size limit. For the sake of the argument lets assume a full level is 1mb. Each creator would have 20mb to use. So people like me won't waste any space - if our levels are only 0.5mb then we can have 40 of them, whilst creators who create longer and bigger levels can only have 20. That way it's fair to everyone.

2011-03-22 18:21:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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I agree with reasons already brought up on why sub-levels should be counted. However, the argument of someone getting 20 normal level slots then 20 sub-level slots being too much for the servers seems rather invalid. Then why has Media Molecule set this number to an arbitrary number of 20? Why not 40? 60? There is a limit placed on the number of levels for some practical reason. The most logical reason to cap this amount is server space. If space were not an issue, then a limit would not exist. To say it's invalid is patently false. To say you disagree is another thing entirely. We get 40 slots already, 20 for LBP1, and 20 for LBP2. If I go make another PSN account, that's yet another 40 slots I've got on the servers for both games, making 80 in total and 40 per game between both PSN accounts. If someone can make multiple PSN accounts to get more that 20 LBP2 level slots for themselves (which I've seen done) and not overload the servers, I don't get why the argument of 40 slots on one account for LBP2 would overload them. If I have 40 slots on two accounts, or 40 slots on one account, it's the same total either way. So how is it possible that having 40 slots to one account does anything more to the servers that using two accounts does?I'm sure Sony keeps accurate tabs on how many PSN accounts are associated with each unit. It's law of averages. The average person isn't going to have 2, 3, or 4 publishing accounts. Thus, an extra 20 slots on a spare account amount to only a fraction of a percentage of the total user base. Now, consider the converse: they give everyone 40 slots. The average user is much more likely to take advantage of this feature and the average number of levels per person will increase. (Do'h, sniped by Doopz!)

2011-03-22 18:35:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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Then why has Media Molecule set this number to an arbitrary number of 20? Why not 40? 60? There is a limit placed on the number of levels for some practical reason. The most logical reason to cap this amount is server space. If space were not an issue, then a limit would not exist. To say it's invalid is patently false. To say you disagree is another thing entirely. I claimed it to be invalid because of how to me, the argument was "You (and just you) can't have more than 20 slots because if you use more than that you'll overload the servers yet making two accounts to get more is fine". I was stating it as invalid in the sense of "I can't have more than 20 on one account, but can use two accounts to get 40" because I wasn't looking at the picture of everyone getting 40 slots, just how it sounded to me like no one, not even a minority of responsible creators, could get their level cap increased in some way. I know there is a reason MM put a limit on accounts. I was calling it invalid how to me it sounded like no one, not even a minority, can use more than their 20 slots or it causes a problem. It wasn't, as stated, looking at the bigger picture of everyone, which was my mistake. It was just looking at what I had interpreted to be "You can't have more than 20 or you break the server".

2011-03-22 18:52:00 Author: Moonface Posts: 310

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Say sub-levels had a smaller amount of thermo? To reduce the size of the file that is saved onto the server?

2011-03-22 19:01:00 Author: Tawarf Posts: 457

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Say sub-levels had a smaller amount of thermo? To reduce the size of the file that is saved onto the server? I don't think so, you can easily change any level to sub-level and vice versa with just one X button press. Besides thermo not secure th size or server it's securing preference of the game.

2011-03-22 20:09:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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If anything extra level slots should be given to those who don't use sub-levels. Being a creator of mostly minigames, most of my levels use very little level space and (sometimes) little thermo space. The 20 level limit is a much bigger problem for me than someone who fills levels to the max and needs to carry things over into sub-levels. IMO the best thing to do, which I think there was a discussion about some months ago, is give everyone a file size limit. For the sake of the argument lets assume a full level is 1mb. Each creator would have 20mb to use. So people like me won't waste any space - if our levels are only 0.5mb then we can have 40 of them, whilst creators who create longer and bigger levels can only have 20. That way it's fair to everyone. I would also like a that sort of limit. IMHO, however, level size should be expressed as units (1 full thermometer/level = 100 units, and 2000 units allowed in total), which would look a bit more neat.

2011-03-23 18:49:00 Author: OrwellianStuff Posts: 90

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It'll take a long time to fill 20 spaces to be honest. In LBP1, which I had for 2 years, I've filled up 8. I think the most I had at one time was no more than 10.

2011-03-24 09:28:00 Author: kirbyman62 Posts: 1893

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It'll take a long time to fill 20 spaces to be honest. In LBP1, which I had for 2 years, I've filled up 8. I think the most I had at one time was no more than 10. Depends what you make and how quick you can make stuff. If you make a lot of mini-games for example, those probably take a lot less time than a full normal level (this is just my observation, not saying it's true to every case) so someone who publishes a lot of short, quick mini-game style levels will likely fill their slots rather quickly I'd think.

2011-03-24 18:25:00 Author: Moonface Posts: 310

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Depends what you make and how quick you can make stuff. If you make a lot of mini-games for example, those probably take a lot less time than a full normal level (this is just my observation, not saying it's true to every case) so someone who publishes a lot of short, quick mini-game style levels will likely fill their slots rather quickly I'd think. There is also the option to combine several mini-games into a single level via a menu interface. Like a mini-game super level of sorts. It's certainly not ideal, I'm just saying there's a workaround for the "my small level only uses 20% of thermo" argument.

2011-03-24 21:19:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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Like dadrester doing, huh? but it cost update noticing, still not bad solution

2011-03-24 22:05:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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People would otherwise make endless games and it will overload the servers. http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/jkemrulez.png (http://eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/jkemrulez/)

2011-03-25 05:37:00 Author: jkemrulez Posts: 2

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If you make a sub-level and hide it, it can't get ratings. WUT.

2011-03-25 21:58:00 Author: Cronos Dage Posts: 396

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