Archive: 19 posts

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So on my one level, I got several boos with comments saying it was too hard. Understandable, the level is kinda difficult. On my other newer level, I got a boo with a guy saying it was too easy. Its a lose-lose situation if you ask me. Clearly people have different ideas of fun. Anwyay, this is not another "why did this n00b boo my great level" sort of thing, AT ALL. The point of this topic is this. Which kinds of levels do you prefer? Ones that you have to try over and over and over to get past something? Or do you like the easier kinds of levels, where you dont really have to work for anything, just go from point A to B, and usally watch some cool stuff happen(kinda like Lockstitches first two levels, A Realm Forgotten and Granite Gardens). Or maybe you like a little of both, some challenge here but nothing that you have to try really hard for?

2011-03-14 01:39:00 Author: ATMLVE Posts: 1177

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I like a balance of the two. It really depends on the level though. I like to see things i haven't seen before, so as long as it does that I am generally happy unless it is just too hard. One of the toughest things about making a level, or just a game in general, is finding the sweet spot. Most people spend a minimum of 20-30 hours in a level building it and testing it. So by the time we are putting on the final touches, we know all the ins and outs of the level and have a substantial amount of play time on it. That makes it very hard to judge how difficult it really is for someone coming in that has never even seen it.

2011-03-14 02:08:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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The best way to deal with this problem is adding risk vs reward elements. Have your main path easy enough for the kids, but add optional tougher parts for the more skilled players off to the sides. Personally I prefer this method in both create and play, and hate those "pull the switch and watch" levels, especially when the platforming is too easy.

2011-03-14 04:29:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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I like a Fun, New kind of challenge, but not too hard that it is impossible to beat.

2011-03-14 04:35:00 Author: DominationMags Posts: 1840

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Depends on my mood, If i wanna challenge I'll play a challenging level but if I am already mad and I wanna cool down I'll play an easy level. I guess note that in your description that it's not suppose to be a hard level, or a warning saying the level may be to hard.

2011-03-14 08:00:00 Author: Ghost Posts: 114

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I only accept challenge it's very rewarding. If I found out that there's nothing at all after hours of hard obstacles and puzzles, I'd rip my gaming pants off like an angry baboon.

2011-03-14 08:33:00 Author: Coconuts Posts: 384

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facepalm @ anybody saying Industrial Platforms is too hard I like flowery meadows of death. I don't really have any interest in playing an ugly, boring level just for challenge though, but I won't shy away from a beautiful level, that's just kind of placid and only there for scenery. Problem is, the more effects and detail you add, the more it effects the gameplay - whether it's distraction, visibility or lag... while the more you subtract, the closer it gets to being bland and pointless. So it's hard to find a good balance between looks great and plays great. I think the only levels I replay long after theyre published are ones with quality, memorable design, but also had a great challenge. Even with real games, if I try to revisit old favorites, I sometimes feel like I'm just going through the motions the whole time, and would be better off just watching someone else play it on youtube, like it's a movie I'm pretty sure most people will downrate a level of equal quality visuals and design if it's frustrating at all. Not cool. Since infinite checkpoints became the norm, I don't even really know how something that's not outright terribly designed and impossible to play is frustrating.

2011-03-14 09:49:00 Author: Unknown User

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For me it's less about challenging or easy and more about fun and frustration. If a level is hard, that doesn't bother me, as long as it's not a cheap hard. If it was well made and intended to be tricky, I'll try my best to get through it and making it is its own reward. But if it's hard because it's poorly designed or unintuitive, I get frustrated and quit. And that doesn't just pertain to player-levels. Quite frankly, the grappling hook in this game is completely unintuitive because if you don't move the stick perfectly horizontally when trying to swing, it raises you up and down. That's poor design when the right stick is just sitting there idle. But anyway, I digress. There is a fine line between frustrating and fun, and finding that balance is quite tricky as stated above.

2011-03-14 15:36:00 Author: nextlevel88 Posts: 149

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I only accept challenge it's very rewarding. If I found out that there's nothing at all after hours of hard obstacles and puzzles, I'd rip my gaming pants off like an angry baboon. What do you think is a good reward? I don't seem to understand your logic, at least in community levels. I play everything for the fun and entertainment I get from playing. I don't care if levels are super hard or super easy. I just don't like those walk in the park -levels where you pretty much do nothing. There needs to be something to do. If I ace a level on my first try, I usually think there's something wrong. Depends on the level.

2011-03-14 15:58:00 Author: Edeslash Posts: 135

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I like a good challenge, but then again, one of my favorite games is Kaizo Mario World (look it up). Yes, a balance is good. I have no interest in something that gives a good challenge but has horrible visuals. If a level is based purely on art, I enjoy that too. So I guess for me it would be challenge+decent visuals, medium difficulty+above average visuals, and very easy+great visuals. All in all, if a level isn't a decent challenge, I give it points if it has good visuals. If the visuals are average, I like a good challenge.

2011-03-14 16:35:00 Author: Unknown User

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I hate levels where I don't know what to do next or I keep dying on obstacles...those are just dumb, and the people who make them are dumb. It's like when I couldn't tie my laces one time. Whoever made those stupid shoes was dumb too.

2011-03-14 17:29:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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I hate sarcasm.

2011-03-14 18:28:00 Author: Unknown User

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I hate sarcasm. I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not.

2011-03-14 18:33:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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It better not be.

2011-03-14 18:33:00 Author: Unknown User

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I genrally like it easier so I can see the whole thing, but then I also enjoy levels built around being difficult (such as LBP_HARD in LBP1). I guess it depends how hard you make it. If the deaths seem cheap and unfair, that's no fun. If it's got that "I can do it this time [dies] I can do it this time [dies]" element that makes you want to over and over, then it's fun. Even then, there is a point where a fun challenge tips over into an annoying level.

2011-03-14 19:04:00 Author: kirbyman62 Posts: 1893

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Both, I like playing both challenging platformer/shooters/rpg whatever, And artistic styled levels, combined or not, there still good thats what matters, I mean not all levels can be the same, where's and whats the point in that? Playing different new stuff etc thats whats best.

2011-03-14 21:03:00 Author: Bloo_boy Posts: 1019

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well... once i heard, everyone is diferent... of course! so thats the problem, even if you always find a balance, it is not a balance at all! because, everyone plays differently, you cant never satisfy everyone, the only thing you should do, is getting the common taste, make most of the people like your level... if you make a level too challeging its gonna be annoying, but if you make a cheap level, is boring, you always need to be on mid level, but everyone have his own midlevel, the most painfull thing in game design is that... if someone find the formula to pleases everyone, man... i want it!

2011-03-14 22:44:00 Author: Unknown User

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Problem is, the more effects and detail you add, the more it effects the gameplay - whether it's distraction, visibility or lag... while the more you subtract, the closer it gets to being bland and pointless. Agreed. There have been several levels that I've played that were supposed to be "great" and they were for the most part, but the flashiness was so overdone that I couldn't tell what I was doing or where I was going sometimes and that drives me crazy. Make your levels look good, but the number one priority is playability. As for balancing difficulty I like to make it easy to succeed, but difficult to succeed well. So, for my Darth Vader boss fight, for example, I gave the player infinite lives, but they take a nasty hit in the score every time they die. In a few of my lbp1 levels, I worked in a "you suck meter" that makes the game easier if you die too many times. One was a kind of maze where the enemy shoots at you--if you died four times during the sequence, a checkpoint would spawn halfway through the maze so you wouldn't have to work so hard to get through. Another was on a spaceship fighter level I made: if the boss killed you a couple times, the game started spawning power-ups for you to pick up before you'd go in to fight him so you'd have an easier time of it. In lbp2, there are even more ways to scale difficulty. One idea is, if you have a level with tricky platforming and the player is driving a bot, you could stick a weak follower on the bot that homes in on a tag on the difficult-to-land jumps. If the player dies repeatedly when trying to make tricky jumps, you can turn on the follower to help him stick the jumps. You can make enemies shoot slower or less accurately, give the player extra hit points, decrease the number of enemies that spawn in a room and so on. There's all kinds of ways to make the game challenging for skilled players but not overwhelming to the more casual guys.

2011-03-14 23:46:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Another thing that's often overlooked in LBP levels (and games in general) is pacing. Sometimes a tricky part in a level isn't the culprit, but several difficult set-pieces in a row that cause the frustration. In the level I'm working on there are difficult bits, but I try to follow them with a few easy jumps or swings to give the player a chance to let their blood pressure return to normal just in case they had a hard time.

2011-03-15 01:35:00 Author: nextlevel88 Posts: 149

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