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MMMMMM A level inspired by VVVVVV

Archive: 60 posts

HI everyone,

I know I'm not a very active member of this community. But thanks to LBPCentral I have been able to put this level together.

It's a level inspired by the mechanics found in the PC game VVVVVV. You control a pod which can flip it's own gravity. It's a pretty big level, I've put well over 100hrs into it. I wanted it to feel big like the original game while putting in my own ideas. So it's less like a level and more like a full game. There's a variety of areas and mechanics for you to explore and even more obstacles to overcome.

I'll try to fix any bugs that I can (though I don't know if I can do much about some of the multiplayer issues)

I hope you enjoy.
fei0x

Now with a bunch more checkpoints!!

Here's some numbers:
- 63 Rooms
- 125 Diamonds
- 95 Diamonds for tolls
- 1 Minimap with probably 1000+ wires in it
- 1 Boss
- 10+ unique interactions using the pulse wave
- countless spikes and enemies

Thought I'd post some pics:

http://i7.lbp.me/img/ft/b57b103d2b0ccd73d46cd4c83bd5b33baad8c9c5.jpg
The Beginning (now says 'Hall of Fame' instead of 'Highscores' for obvious reasons)

http://i4.lbp.me/img/ft/c04a87857dff5e5a83a1d359bdb6c0ac01e683f0.jpg
An early room

http://ic.lbp.me/img/ft/33c6752dbe976b160fe5563ca266c50b7c1bfc20.jpg
My Plinko room

http://i8.lbp.me/img/ft/2d81fa05bd0a100c5a84152d1ade25c6737d48d4.jpg
Outside the space station

http://i5.lbp.me/img/ft/29554ba7232aa745eb38a3b72e7482d60b6776c3.jpg
A later area where the screen forces you upward just like in VVVVVV


Full Walkthrough *Spoilers*
Please use this if you're having problems. But please try the level first. ( I would like to know where people are getting stuck...) (and sorry for my crappy camera & camera skills)

Part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kABVops5J98&feature=related

Part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUSWEd_R-Y&feature=related

Full Map:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KPYjHpYAU_I/TaotcuPGW-I/AAAAAAAAAEw/wuAX9x7fbag/s1600/MMMMMMap.jpg

http://lbp.me/v/ywjws6		2011-03-13 20:05:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

I can honestly say that's an excellent level. You've got the controls pretty much spot on and it's genuinely fun to play You've clearly put a lot of work into it.

I've not finished it, but I certainly intend to do so when I've got a bit more time.		2011-03-13 20:44:00

Author:
matneee
Posts: 66

I can honestly say that's an excellent level. You've got the controls pretty much spot on and it's genuinely fun to play You've clearly put a lot of work into it.

I've not finished it, but I certainly intend to do so when I've got a bit more time.

Thanks, there is one required 'secret path' in this level. and I'm hoping people don't get stuck on it.
Good Luck, if you like this level you'll definitely enjoy the vs level I made as well. Its a good prize for collecting all the gems.		2011-03-13 21:15:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Hmmm, I just got a suggestion to make all the checkpoints Infinity... I wonder if I should...2011-03-14 00:43:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

I loved this level. This is CheezyW from lbp2. I'll play the updated ver soon enough!

I loved the simplicity of it. The platforms were smooth and there's just enough leeway to get around.
Don't worry about infini checkpoints. It's already very challenging, and missing diamonds is already punishment enough. The checkpoints are already few and far inbetween, so don't worry about making it too easy.		2011-03-14 01:57:00

Author:
Cheezy WEAPON
Posts: 283

Yeah, I've got 13 plays and nobody has beaten it yet... One person said it was too hard too. Maybe I should figure out a way to put more checkpoints in there...2011-03-14 02:32:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

I've just beaten it. That last part is brutal, but not impossible.

I just think people don't have the patience. It took me almost 20 min to get through this level, but every step of the way is good. Just wait, they'll come. People who want a good, tough, rewarding challenge will come.		2011-03-14 09:01:00

Author:
Cheezy WEAPON
Posts: 283

I'm wondering if you can make two difficulty settings. Sortt of have a casual/normal menu option, and depending on which is selected emmiters spawn either limited or infinite life checkpoints.

I've never tried this, but it might be worth investigating.		2011-03-14 11:41:00

Author:
matneee
Posts: 66

@Cheezy: Thanks Cheezy, 20 minutes is pretty good I think, congrats ^^d. Unfortunately it's doing worse then my previous level... which i think was uglier and frustrating. Yeah I think people need to finish it in order to like it. Which is gonna keep my play count grounded... I need to think of a way to let people who would like this level know it's here.
@mantnee: I thought about doing that. But I'm pretty sure I don't have the space for it. And I would have to move upside-down spawners onto the ground. I've gotten over the fact that they're all infinite, since Cheezy is the only one to beat it so far. and the end is tough.

I just wish I knew where the majority of people all quitting... I imagine I'd get a few more likes if they got through the orange area... (it's my favorite)		2011-03-14 14:11:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Oh man, I love VVVVVV, queued!2011-03-14 20:53:00

Author:
Voganlight
Posts: 60

I played this but I honestly could not beat it. What do the things that make me go golden do? I couldn't figure out anything other than speed...

Then i get to a part with a sticky platform and two spiked areas and died while trying many different tricks ... I assumed I had to move fast enough to roll over the sticky thing before I got caught, but I never made it. And, I really didn't know what to do and kept dying so I put it down. I really loved it, aside from getting stuck at that part. Maybe you could make a mini intro to tell me some strategies? That aside -- it really looks like you put a lot of work into your design so huge props for that.		2011-03-15 15:55:00

Author:
Unknown User

Look interesting, queued2011-03-15 16:50:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

I played this but I honestly could not beat it. What do the things that make me go golden do? I couldn't figure out anything other than speed...

Then i get to a part with a sticky platform and two spiked areas and died while trying many different tricks ... I assumed I had to move fast enough to roll over the sticky thing before I got caught, but I never made it. And, I really didn't know what to do and kept dying so I put it down. I really loved it, aside from getting stuck at that part. Maybe you could make a mini intro to tell me some strategies? That aside -- it really looks like you put a lot of work into your design so huge props for that.

Hmmm, the sticky bit in the room your referring to, is really only there to help you get the diamonds. You are correct the yellow floor only makes you go faster. But all you need to do is flip to the other side and move down. (sort of a running jump) maybe I should put some stickers up or something?		2011-03-15 18:40:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

I added a video walkthrough to hopefully help some of the people who might be getting stuck. Please let me know where you're getting stuck though as I would like to make fair and accessible.2011-03-15 18:56:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Ok I eased up the first boost room. I made the sticky platform wait when it gets to the side to allow players to make the jump. I also took away two whole spikes. Because it was an early room it wasn't intended to be too hard so I think its fine. I hope this allows a few more players to get into it more.2011-03-16 00:27:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

I played your level twice yesterday and i apologize for not finishing it but i'll explain the reason:
First off the level is based on a simple but great concept which can only be exploited to the fullest with some amazing level design that you provided. The level is great and really varied and i extremely liked how it requires extreme precision to go through several parts. The problems i've found however were:

- The checkpoints number needs to be increased: the problem is that the level proposes several new challenges, and most players are going to go through a trial-and-error process in them. The problem is that every error forces you to redo lengthy sequences which could lead to more errors and frustration. More checkpoints would definitely solve this problem. There is also the issue with the moving cameras: sometimes after changing screens i'd be suprised by a threat in my face and forced to redo the area.
- I'm sorry to say it but... the level is too long. I went through the starting area, the middle area with the moving words finding every diamonds, the outside area, the dark area lather lit-up and after some frustrating moments i get to the space guy which.... tells me to save the others and doesn't even direct me. I honestly had no energy to keep going through the level after that lengthy experience, and i felt that the level could have ended there. The problems is that after a lengthy playthrough even though you did an exceptional work mixing up the various area i started to feel that the experience was not fun anymore and i stopped there.

It's strange to say it but i feel you overdid a bit, since a believe a more compact level would actually improve the experience, along with some more checkpoints.
I hoped i didn't sound too negative because i enjoyed your level and the challenge it provided.		2011-03-16 09:55:00

Author:
Vergil
Posts: 155

Very nice idea. I really liked it. 2 hours played
Thank you.		2011-03-16 10:34:00

Author:
Unknown User

Hey i played your level and its really great!
I like the idea, simple but effective
It also goes along with a great design.

Im sorry that i couldnt finish it, i didnt expect it to be that long. Its not a negative point in my opinion but as Vergil already mentioned, the level could use some more checkpoints.
It can be frustrating for some people because the obstacles are really tough.
Maybe you could allow the player to set the difficulty? If its possible of course.

but overall its really nice and enjoyable! i will try to complete it these days.		2011-03-16 13:35:00

Author:
DragonHunterEx
Posts: 84

I played your level twice yesterday and i apologize for not finishing it but i'll explain the reason:
First off the level is based on a simple but great concept which can only be exploited to the fullest with some amazing level design that you provided. The level is great and really varied and i extremely liked how it requires extreme precision to go through several parts. The problems i've found however were:

- The checkpoints number needs to be increased: the problem is that the level proposes several new challenges, and most players are going to go through a trial-and-error process in them. The problem is that every error forces you to redo lengthy sequences which could lead to more errors and frustration. More checkpoints would definitely solve this problem. There is also the issue with the moving cameras: sometimes after changing screens i'd be suprised by a threat in my face and forced to redo the area.
- I'm sorry to say it but... the level is too long. I went through the starting area, the middle area with the moving words finding every diamonds, the outside area, the dark area lather lit-up and after some frustrating moments i get to the space guy which.... tells me to save the others and doesn't even direct me. I honestly had no energy to keep going through the level after that lengthy experience, and i felt that the level could have ended there. The problems is that after a lengthy playthrough even though you did an exceptional work mixing up the various area i started to feel that the experience was not fun anymore and i stopped there.

It's strange to say it but i feel you overdid a bit, since a believe a more compact level would actually improve the experience, along with some more checkpoints.
I hoped i didn't sound too negative because i enjoyed your level and the challenge it provided.

And


Hey i played your level and its really great!
I like the idea, simple but effective
It also goes along with a great design.

Im sorry that i couldnt finish it, i didnt expect it to be that long. Its not a negative point in my opinion but as Vergil already mentioned, the level could use some more checkpoints.
It can be frustrating for some people because the obstacles are really tough.
Maybe you could allow the player to set the difficulty? If its possible of course.

but overall its really nice and enjoyable! i will try to complete it these days.

ok so assuming i have space to put more checkpoints in, does anybody have a particular spot where they think one should go?
I'm thinking one in the yellow area after you pass the fast double pulse puzzle, right before the drop. After you exit the drop rooms you can go back up and trigger the first one without encountering any obsticles.
Do I need another in the green or purple zone?
I could probably put one at the top of orange... ?
You don't have to get all the diamonds and you can get to most of the rooms outdoors pretty fast, so I dont think i need another out there do I?
and another in sewers? I'm not sure where... they're kinda short... hmmm..
I think the last area has enough, one every two rooms. or so.

I'm worried that I may have only room for like 3 checkpoints before I overheat.		2011-03-16 14:41:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

The menu is nice. I havent played the game you based this off of but it looks pretty cool on here lol. Ok gonna give it a go right now
-The counter for the diamonds is so cool.
-The diamond required areas is awesome. makes u have to collect those diamonds. really really cool.
-so far everything is playing pretty smoothly.
-Ok the one chance and your dead and back to checkpoint is EXTREMELY frustrating lol. I wish you could maybe make it a four hit and your dead or something like that. PPl might get farther in here if you did.
but im gonna keep trying...
yup im not skilled enough to finish out this level. sorry....i got to the room after BIG and couldnt figure it out lol. Anyway u did build a pretty cool level. 		2011-03-16 16:14:00

Author:
PurpleIris88
Posts: 108

The menu is nice. I havent played the game you based this off of but it looks pretty cool on here lol. Ok gonna give it a go right now
-The counter for the diamonds is so cool.
-The diamond required areas is awesome. makes u have to collect those diamonds. really really cool.
-so far everything is playing pretty smoothly.
-Ok the one chance and your dead and back to checkpoint is EXTREMELY frustrating lol. I wish you could maybe make it a four hit and your dead or something like that. PPl might get farther in here if you did.
but im gonna keep trying...
yup im not skilled enough to finish out this level. sorry....i got to the room after BIG and couldnt figure it out lol. Anyway u did build a pretty cool level.

Ah, you got stuck in the first room where you have to use the force wave (R2) on something other then the diamond gates.
I made the platform that you have to use R2 on blue to help make it stand out as something unique. Perhaps if I show the pistons in that room it will become more evident?
Hmmm I will be trying to add more checkpoints, but I don't think i will add life. VVVVVV is also a challenging game, and it would be to easy for my taste if I did that.
but thanks for the input, I will try to make the early areas more clear, while giving the player the freedom to explore.		2011-03-16 23:06:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Hey there fei0x, I played your level yesterday and I've got to say wow. This level is very polished and has little to no bugs at all (at least none that I encountered). Clean levels are very enjoyable to play. The gameplay was also spot-on, the controls were very sharp and comfortable. As for the difficulty, yeah, it's hard, but not every level can be simple, am I right?

I can tell you've put a lot of time into this level, trust me, it shows! It definitely deserves more attention then it has
Good job!		2011-03-18 00:13:00

Author:
Unknown User

Hey there fei0x, I played your level yesterday and I've got to say wow. This level is very polished and has little to no bugs at all (at least none that I encountered). Clean levels are very enjoyable to play. The gameplay was also spot-on, the controls were very sharp and comfortable. As for the difficulty, yeah, it's hard, but not every level can be simple, am I right?

I can tell you've put a lot of time into this level, trust me, it shows! It definitely deserves more attention then it has
Good job!

Thanks songwr1tten, I appreciate the kind words.		2011-03-18 01:08:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Ok, I just republished.
This update includes:
- Some prettying up of the final room (not that many have seen it...)
- I have reduced the range of the second big to stop catching early players by surprise.
- I have also set up a small barrier in the first boost room to prevent players from zooming into the spikes (which i think some may have been doing)
- I turned on visibily of the pistons in the room between the two BIGs so that people might figure out that they move and try the pulse wave.
- I added another survivor at the end of the orange area, he'll give a hint on where to go next.
- I also added dialog to the first survivor to tell you to go to the east tower. hopefully players will go to the bottom but if they go to the top, well they'll still see a dead end.
- and you asked for it. I added two checkpoints, one at the end of the orange area so you dont have to do it agiain if you die and forgot to trigger the red zone save. and I added one in the middle of the yellow zone. cause thats where i think the players who make it farther end up giving up.

*Hope some people can beat it now."		2011-03-18 02:15:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

*Hope some people can beat it now."

I'll give it a shot - day off tomorrow		2011-03-18 03:25:00

Author:
matneee
Posts: 66

A refreshing level, i though it was just going to be another platformer, but i was wrong. It is obvious that you put a lot of time into this level and it really shows.2011-03-18 03:59:00

Author:
matt54123
Posts: 38

Also I'm seriously overheating now...
Although I'm astonished I've squeezed so much in. (you'll notice all the characters look the same, that's because I can't afford to load any more costume pieces		2011-03-18 04:21:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

This is very cool! I didn't find any bugs at all. It looks great. But it's hard!2011-03-18 11:23:00

Author:
Unknown User

Already played it and:
- Nice game idd - but to hard i didnt finished it becous emy nerves started to eat my braincells Put more Saves.. i died a loooooooooot on that BIG letters..
- Loved the idea.. i will finish it later when i have time.. nightwork sucks 		2011-03-18 22:00:00

Author:
PTdragon
Posts: 176

Already played it and:
- Nice game idd - but to hard i didnt finished it becous emy nerves started to eat my braincells Put more Saves.. i died a loooooooooot on that BIG letters..
- Loved the idea.. i will finish it later when i have time.. nightwork sucks

Are you refferring to the BIGs in the last area? I'm having a problem cause I haven't actually seen anyone play my level yet.. so i dont know where they're are being stopped. cause I suppose i could slow the final BIGs down. that should give the player more time to make their move.		2011-03-18 23:14:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Yeah.. some letters that say: BIG.
My advice is put more Checkpoints 		2011-03-19 07:53:00

Author:
PTdragon
Posts: 176

finally got to watch some friends play my level. found some bugs/ changes i want to make noting them here so i can remember when i get time.
1. Boss needs to release the player when retracting the tounge, bug causes player not able to finish the level
2. First speed room is confusing with the sticky platform, remove it and line up the diamonds over the gap.
3. Remove electricity from pulse-able items. (area in green, and possibly area in yellow.)
4. Consider modifying bucket.
5. add another split second to room with two pulses
6. add more goo destroyers in sewers
7. add visual aid to dealing boss damage
8. consider adding diamonds to orange to prevent. lockout		2011-03-20 06:14:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

alright, just went through and made a ton of updates
-added glass over all checkpoints so players cant jump out and fall to the end
-updated all sticky platforms to have a greater release range
-updated the boss with more visuals
-added a few more walls for safe room to room travel
-extended the ledge in the first big room for beginners
-removed electricity from non-lethal objects
-updated some of the pulse points to look better
-fixed the openning spawning for multi, and to save space
-updated some of the character text
-modified the first boost room to be more obvious
-made it so that you cant lock yourself in the orange area with the new checkpoint
-updated some of the slime destroy points
...i think thats it. thanks everybody for your inputs.

still considering how to destroy the machines after you suicide with the popit		2011-03-20 23:15:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

like ive said this level is great but hard.. im 1 week without play becouse of work.. soon i can i will teste this amazing level and will review it here2011-03-21 01:42:00

Author:
PTdragon
Posts: 176

I tried your level earlier today and really enjoyed it even if I wasn't able to get to the end.

- The yellow rooms in the dark are really frustrating. Maybe i did miss something but I've spent lots of time to figure out the way.
- After the "orange" sequence, I didn't know where to go. I was expecting a clue from the space guy like the one in the yellow section, but he did'nt say anything. This is where I give up, after searching a way for a few minutes.

+ Controls are very good. It's hard, but it's not unfair.
+ Level design is brilliant, lots of great ideas

Overall good level, solid level design, no bugs, good controls. I'll try again in a few days to finish it (I saw that there is a video walkthrough, I think i will use it to know where to go after orange).		2011-03-24 13:54:00

Author:
Slurm
Posts: 262

I tried your level earlier today and really enjoyed it even if I wasn't able to get to the end.

- The yellow rooms in the dark are really frustrating. Maybe i did miss something but I've spent lots of time to figure out the way.
- After the "orange" sequence, I didn't know where to go. I was expecting a clue from the space guy like the one in the yellow section, but he did'nt say anything. This is where I give up, after searching a way for a few minutes.

+ Controls are very good. It's hard, but it's not unfair.
+ Level design is brilliant, lots of great ideas

Overall good level, solid level design, no bugs, good controls. I'll try again in a few days to finish it (I saw that there is a video walkthrough, I think i will use it to know where to go after orange).

hmmm, you seem to have gotten stuck where i was worried, what did you try? he says to find "the sewers under the west tower" right? so I hope players will think the entrance must be from one of the two lower yellow rooms, and then perhaps experiment with the pulse wave (R2) to find the 'secret' entrance under the slime.

hmmm I think dark mazes can turn out differently for each person, sort of a random experience. Since nobody else has mentioned it yet, I think I'll sit on it until I receive more feedback, but thanks for letting me know.		2011-03-24 14:24:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Hey I played your level and I liked it a lot. The controls and level design are perfect nothing to criticise there. However I think this level is too long and difficult for the average gamer. The level would be a lot more enjoyable if it had more checkpoints and was a bit easier in my opinion.2011-03-25 13:56:00

Author:
hitman_472
Posts: 52

I played the game, and its a nice concept. Never played vvvvvv, but seen videos of it and it captures the feel very well.

Here are a few pointers in helping improve the gameplay a bit:

-If I keep X pressed the player keeps going up and down. This will sometimes trigger a unfair death: like when I have to avoid spikes in a narrow passage. If I keep X pressed too long I will jump and fall into the spikes the second I hit the cealing. Can you adjust the code so you have to press X again to switch gravity? I did this with a counter in my level: Pressing X once means the counter was full so the logic behind the gravityswitch resolves. Now simply make the counter reset after the player collides with the cealing/floor and when X is not pressed. This will also benefit the sticky platforms.

-One midair switch would be nice, but it would also break some of your puzzles.

-more checkpoints please. Maybe it's me, but having to redo a complete level just because I did not know what the speedboosters do or because of a unlucky move is unfair. VVVVVV also has a lot of checkpoints, because its dull to redo simple bits of a level just to get to the harder part. This will put new players off, especially in the beginning, where a lot of noob errors will be made.

-the first astronaut did not tell how to use R2 after visiting here twice. maybe look at the trigger requirements?


Thats it for now, I will try this again if you add some more checkpoints! Will you try my level too? Its in my signature.		2011-03-25 14:07:00

Author:
Alphagaia
Posts: 64

I played the game, and its a nice concept. Never played vvvvvv, but seen videos of it and it captures the feel very well.

Here are a few pointers in helping improve the gameplay a bit:

-If I keep X pressed the player keeps going up and down. This will sometimes trigger a unfair death: like when I have to avoid spikes in a narrow passage. If I keep X pressed too long I will jump and fall into the spikes the second I hit the cealing. Can you adjust the code so you have to press X again to switch gravity? I did this with a counter in my level: Pressing X once means the counter was full so the logic behind the gravityswitch resolves. Now simply makes the counter reset after the player collides with the cealing/floor and when X is not pressed. This will also benefit the sticky platforms.

-One midair switch would be nice, but it would also break some of your puzzles.

-more checkpoints please. Maybe it's me, but having to redo a complete level just because I did not know what the speedboosters do or because of a unlucky move is unfair. VVVVVV also has a lot of checkpoints, because its dull to redo simple bits of a level just to get to the harder part. This will put new players off, especially in the beginning, where a lot of noob errors will be made.

-the first astronaut did not tell how to use R2 after visiting here twice. maybe look at the trigger requirements?


Thats it for now, I will try this again if you add some more checkpoints! Will you try my level too? Its in my signature.

hmmm, I like your depress only suggestion. Not sure how to implement it, I will check.

Lots of people tell me for more checkpoints but they don't really say where. I think I can only fit maybe one more in before I'm completely overheated, I'm not sure if it should be in the green area or not...

The problem with the prompt not appearing is because the prior speech bubble is still up, and it's chained, so when you hit the next guy it triggers his speech bubble, but instead it really finishes the last one and moves onto his next one... Oh I think I got it, I'll just and the speech bubbles with the proximity switch... though that will introduce a new problem, that if you're not in proximity it wont show the next text... but i guess that's better than not seeing the prompt
thanks for the feedback		2011-03-25 14:26:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Glad to help!

Are the checkpoints that intense on your level?

How about using a emitter for your checkpoints? Give it a follower status on a invisible hologram and make it follow a tag which will turn on the second a player hits a checkpoint. Set the range and speed of the follower really high so it will move to your new checkpoint in an instant. This way u can emit your gravity device thingy using only one emitter, which probably is your problem?
Add a checkpoint every two screens or so.		2011-03-25 16:29:00

Author:
Alphagaia
Posts: 64

Glad to help!

Are the checkpoints that intense on your level?

How about using a emitter for your checkpoints? Give it a follower status on a invisible hologram and make it follow a tag which will turn on the second a player hits a checkpoint. Set the range and speed of the follower really high so it will move to your new checkpoint in an instant. This way u can emit your gravity device thingy using only one emitter, which probably is your problem?
Add a checkpoint every two screens or so.

yeah i have an emitter on every checkpoint, (though the level is kindof intense it its size in general) but I think you're onto something that may allow me to squeeze more in. I'm familiar with your technique as I had to do that with the hud. Though If you remember my level what do you think of adding these checkpoint spots?
1 - Green Zone: right after you drop past the first Big (thats 3 obstacles from the previous checkpoint and 3 before the next)
2 - Purple Zone: right before the bucket: mostly because the bucket is long and potentially difficult, but there are three obstacles before and one hard one after
3 - Sewer: right after the pushing bit

I dont think I need any in red, if people can't pass the red zone they wont finish the level xD
I've got them every 2nd room in the final area already
Should I add one in yellow by the tesla towers? people can always go up without danger and trigger the earlier yellow one.
Adding one mid orange might be a trick, but I could try if people think there should be one...		2011-03-25 18:55:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Add checkpoints consistent: like I said place one every two screens, even on the easy bits. A mistake should not force a player to redo long bits of level even if its easy.

Do you want to try out my level too? It's in my signature.		2011-03-25 21:58:00

Author:
Alphagaia
Posts: 64

Ok thanks to Alphagaia I found a way to squeeze 10 more checkpoints in the level, I placed them at potential points of frustration, sorry none in orange though, as their may be a trick to making the scroll work right...

I also fixed the jump so that it only works on depression, so now you wont accidentally flip if you're holding down X

and I fixed the suicide issue, now when you suicide, the machine goes with you.		2011-03-26 03:04:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Very nice, I played it and liked it much more!

-the X press work perfectly now. Very good! The added checkpoints work like a charm too! Still think you might need one at the start to help noob players though...

-One more thing though, maybe you could add a movie camera which shows where you need to go after you unlocked a new pathway? I was stuck after opening the first big diamond blokade and wondered if some other blokade opened up as well, just like the first.

-is it possible to hold the R2 button so I dont have to push 25 times to unlock a big blokade? Or better yet, make it vanish with one pres of the button? It would speed up gameplay a lot.

-sometimes, the map is in the way a little bit. Could you move it down a little or make it a little bit more transparent when the player is close. I also recomment upping the speed of its follower, to make the transision during screens better.

-also, the bucket is very slow, maybe speed it up a bit of let it go left or right with R2? Ofcourse it will also need a trigger so its always on the side the player is should the player die.

-just above the bucket, the speed text sometimes give a unfair death since I have to jump up blind not knowing where the text is because its not on screen. Maybe move it to the right some more so its never in the way of the blind jump?

Upgraded my like to a heart. Did not have time today to finish the level, but I will try it some more!		2011-03-26 17:42:00

Author:
Alphagaia
Posts: 64

Very nice, I played it and liked it much more!

-the X press work perfectly now. Very good! The added checkpoints work like a charm too! Still think you might need one at the start to help noob players though...

-One more thing though, maybe you could add a movie camera which shows where you need to go after you unlocked a new pathway? I was stuck after opening the first big diamond blokade and wondered if some other blokade opened up as well, just like the first.

-is it possible to hold the R2 button so I dont have to push 25 times to unlock a big blokade? Or better yet, make it vanish with one pres of the button? It would speed up gameplay a lot.

-sometimes, the map is in the way a little bit. Could you move it down a little or make it a little bit more transparent when the player is close. I also recomment upping the speed of its follower, to make the transision during screens better.

-also, the bucket is very slow, maybe speed it up a bit of let it go left or right with R2? Ofcourse it will also need a trigger so its always on the side the player is should the player die.

-just above the bucket, the speed text sometimes give a unfair death since I have to jump up blind not knowing where the text is because its not on screen. Maybe move it to the right some more so its never in the way of the blind jump?

Upgraded my like to a heart. Did not have time today to finish the level, but I will try it some more!

Unfortunately I can't make the minimap any smaller, that's something I've tried before. Though convenient for when I've had to make modifications to it, since i know where to stop reshrinking it at. I tried moving it down some, but it doesn't really change anything without making it uncomfortable. and besides a few spots where it crosses the exit hole a bit, I think there's only really one spot where it gets in the way, and I've tried to make it a little nicer by moving the hole over a bit.

The R2 Gate thing doesn't work for a couple of reasons, both technical and gameplay wise, so I think I'm gonna leave it for now as it's not really deterring play but just pauses a bit.

As for the bucket, I've fiddled with it and found that speeding it up doesn't work for me, it either makes it too easy (like requiring one flip, or too hard, by making the one flip you have to do too hard.) Plus I'd like to make the player flip 3 times. My problem with the bucket is that it wont always cross that second crystal, I wish the rotator had a timer function rather than a speed so that I could synch it up with the piston.

As for the fasts above the bucket, i've moved them in a bit but now the flip between them is harder. Any other change there now would have me removing them. And given that there is now a checkpoint in the room before and right after, I'm ok with it, players should be able to roll into the room slowly and be fine. In exchange though,I've removed the similar and more unfair rolling death in the top center blue room, you can now safely roll in.

And there are 2 spots I was thinking of adding checkpoints, but I will sit on them until I get more feedback, because I can't add anything without removing something at this point.

thanks again for your feedback.		2011-03-27 02:35:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Hiya finished your level!

Found a big bug right on the first screen of the hidden level, the groundpanel before the checkpoint doesn't trigger when I push X. It wont change gravity.I only managed to get by this by going to the cealing, press x, fall down and hopefully hit the cealing so i could press x again. You might want to fix it.

-little nibble: the 2 enemies can be killed if you shoot back their slime, but it's never mentioned you have to do that. At first I thought I should be able to fit between the enemie and slime to get through.

-also the last boss also shoots slime, at first I though I had to shoot those back instead of hitting the tongue! Maybe make it a different color slime or something?

-last little thing: in the first area its possible to hit the spikes from the side. In almost all the levels you have put blocks there to stop this from happening. Maybe its easier on starting players if you place blocks there too? A friend of mine got killed 4/5 times because of this and its such a easy fix to stop annoying fresh players.		2011-03-27 17:27:00

Author:
Alphagaia
Posts: 64

Hiya finished your level!

Found a big bug right on the first screen of the hidden level, the groundpanel before the checkpoint doesn't trigger when I push X. It wont change gravity.I only managed to get by this by going to the cealing, press x, fall down and hopefully hit the cealing so i could press x again. You might want to fix it.

-little nibble: the 2 enemies can be killed if you shoot back their slime, but it's never mentioned you have to do that. At first I thought I should be able to fit between the enemie and slime to get through.

-also the last boss also shoots slime, at first I though I had to shoot those back instead of hitting the tongue! Maybe make it a different color slime or something?

-last little thing: in the first area its possible to hit the spikes from the side. In almost all the levels you have put blocks there to stop this from happening. Maybe its easier on starting players if you place blocks there too? A friend of mine got killed 4/5 times because of this and its such a easy fix to stop annoying fresh players.

Edit: ok now i see where i didn't tag the flip. thanks after adding the checkpoint, i segmented up the ground there and lost the trigger to flip. thanks

The first survivor you find does hint at how to kill both, but maybe people forget by the time they get there... maybe i'll move it to the later guy. I can't add another sackbot, no space =( ... though I could get rid of one of the two that don't say anything.

I fixed some of the spikes in the first area, i suppose i could give those the same treatment. Don't particularly want to be too generous though, cause if they can't overcome that they probably wont finish... but then again, i don't have the extra checkpoint up there...

Yeah, somebody else mentioned the thinking you could reflect too, maybe i'll change the color of the ones you can reflect

thanks for sticking with it to the end and giving me so much feedback =D		2011-03-27 18:34:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

sorry to anybody who got caught in that bug in the sewers in the last 15 or so plays =(2011-03-27 19:35:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

The level sounds very interesting. I've added it to my queue so that I can check it out. However, can you also check out a level me and my crew have put a lot of time into constructing? http://lbp.me/v/y4n7x0

The F4F thread: https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=53375-The-Missing-Piece-Part-1		2011-03-27 21:34:00

Author:
Scholarship
Posts: 105

I just played your level. According to one of the reviews left for it, this is based on an already published game, correct? Regardless, I have not played it, and I was amazed by this. I was not able to find the way into the sewers, but what I did play I absolutely loved. I actually felt compelled to find my way through. The gameplay was simple yet amazingly well-executed. At times, it reminded me of a level from the story mode where you controlled a vehicle that operated similarly. Still great job!

Pros:
-Good visuals
-Easy to understand instructions
-Tight controls
-Thought-out gameplay

Cons
-Too difficult for most to find sewers? LOL.		2011-03-29 06:03:00

Author:
Scholarship
Posts: 105

This is a really great concept, and a really great execution but it seems to be hindered by keeping secrets from the player. I quit before the orange section, and found myself generally frustrated trying to escape the yellow section. I started in the green section, bought the tunnel through blue to yellow, but only had the patience to play the first yellow room and the one above it. Trying to get back out the way I came, passed through the yellow room probably six or more times only to die in the blue tunnel area.

Extreme peril and the need to explore seem to make strange bedfellows here. More liberal checkpoints would definitely have made this less frustrating, like if they were built into both ends of the tunnel, for example. In balancing your difficulty vs. accessibility, I think if you want more people to finish the level then you know some compromise is in order. I think more frequent checkpoints are probably the best way to accomplish that. This allows you to keep from having to make huge design changes, and the level becomes less punishing while maintaining its form.

It took me some time to figure out that the HUD was a map. I'd recommend not necessarily labeling it "map" but having an text bubble point it out in the instructions.

Where you exit the spaceship, I smacked the set of spikes on the left and they shifted to the side, like they accidently weren't glued down.

All in all, I think this level plays and feels great. The ball handles well and the hazards are challenging without being insane. It could use some more decoration, but a lot of the time a level like this doesn't have the thermo, and really decorating isn't a core piece of the experience anyway. I think this level is really awesome, but as is it requires a tremendous amount of patience, a requirement that significantly reduces the size of your target audience.		2011-03-29 10:17:00

Author:
discokrakken
Posts: 108

I just played your level. According to one of the reviews left for it, this is based on an already published game, correct? Regardless, I have not played it, and I was amazed by this. I was not able to find the way into the sewers, but what I did play I absolutely loved. I actually felt compelled to find my way through. The gameplay was simple yet amazingly well-executed. At times, it reminded me of a level from the story mode where you controlled a vehicle that operated similarly. Still great job!

Pros:
-Good visuals
-Easy to understand instructions
-Tight controls
-Thought-out gameplay

Cons
-Too difficult for most to find sewers? LOL.

hey, thanks for your feedback, can you tell me what you did do to try and find the sewers? I say secret under the west tower right? so did you go to the bottom of the yellow zone and try hitting R2?		2011-03-29 23:06:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

This is a really great concept, and a really great execution but it seems to be hindered by keeping secrets from the player. I quit before the orange section, and found myself generally frustrated trying to escape the yellow section. I started in the green section, bought the tunnel through blue to yellow, but only had the patience to play the first yellow room and the one above it. Trying to get back out the way I came, passed through the yellow room probably six or more times only to die in the blue tunnel area.

Extreme peril and the need to explore seem to make strange bedfellows here. More liberal checkpoints would definitely have made this less frustrating, like if they were built into both ends of the tunnel, for example. In balancing your difficulty vs. accessibility, I think if you want more people to finish the level then you know some compromise is in order. I think more frequent checkpoints are probably the best way to accomplish that. This allows you to keep from having to make huge design changes, and the level becomes less punishing while maintaining its form.

It took me some time to figure out that the HUD was a map. I'd recommend not necessarily labeling it "map" but having an text bubble point it out in the instructions.

Where you exit the spaceship, I smacked the set of spikes on the left and they shifted to the side, like they accidently weren't glued down.

All in all, I think this level plays and feels great. The ball handles well and the hazards are challenging without being insane. It could use some more decoration, but a lot of the time a level like this doesn't have the thermo, and really decorating isn't a core piece of the experience anyway. I think this level is really awesome, but as is it requires a tremendous amount of patience, a requirement that significantly reduces the size of your target audience.

thanks I'll have the captain call out the map. and glue those spikes down.

Unfortunately it took me almost everything I had to get the current checkpoints in, I'll have to start removing things to fit anymore in. I'm not exactly sure if I knew where you got stuck. I presume you passed the dark maze, and then could not pass the zig=zag jumps in the room above or got stuck in the in the top left, where the electric / lightswitch thingy is. I'm assuming you did not realize to press R2 next to the 'lightswitch' and so decided to turn around.

thanks for your feedback.		2011-03-29 23:14:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

The problem with your checkpoints is that you use them to spawn your sackboy out of them as well.

This can be avoided and give you the oppurtunity to remove all the usual sackboy checkpoints.

Simply set a controllinator on a invisible hologram as a transmitter. Make it follow your gravi-ball. Set the controllinator on your graviball as a receiver.

When the graviball dies, the hologram with the player should go to a checkpoint.
Make your own checpoint system which turns on when the graviball touches it and turns all others off.

This code is very easy to make and lets you remove all checkpoints thus giving you more thermometer and easily make more checkpoints.

------------------------------------------------

Also, place a R2 sticker on your blue switches to remind players they can interact with them.		2011-03-30 00:04:00

Author:
Alphagaia
Posts: 64

The problem with your checkpoints is that you use them to spawn your sackboy out of them as well.

This can be avoided and give you the oppurtunity to remove all the usual sackboy checkpoints.

Simply set a controllinator on a invisible hologram as a transmitter. Make it follow your gravi-ball. Set the controllinator on your graviball as a receiver.

When the graviball dies, the hologram with the player should go to a checkpoint.
Make your own checpoint system which turns on when the graviball touches it and turns all others off.

This code is very easy to make and lets you remove all checkpoints thus giving you more thermometer and easily make more checkpoints.

------------------------------------------------

Also, place a R2 sticker on your blue switches to remind players they can interact with them.

ohh another good checkpoint advancement. I'll fiddle with that when i get a bit more time.		2011-03-30 00:14:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Good luck, let me know if you need some help: my own level uses this system!2011-03-30 00:26:00

Author:
Alphagaia
Posts: 64

Hi Fei0x..
K, first off, OMG I owe you such a MASSIVE apology, you F4F'd my level a week a go, and I DIDN'T return the favor, I know what it's like when you F4F some body's level, and they don't bother with the courtesy of doing the same ( I've f4f'd about 12, and only had about three return the favor!) So I cant apologies enough!

K, I DID play your level i guess the day after you f4f'd me, but I was tired, and found your level so hard and frustrating, that I gave up.....K, today, went at it with a fresh, open mind...erm, but it didn't make any difference (gee, I'm sorry, out of guilt i persevered for 30 minutes, and took three breaks (because I wanted to throw the controller at my nice shiny new TV) I tried some Zen breathing Techniques, I had a cup of tea, went out and had a ciggerrette...each time coming back to the paused game feeling a bit calmer and happier to continue, to get to another section to find my blood pressure rising, and swearing through gritted teeth. Heheh, I cant tell you how many times I swore, but wonders if there is a Guinness world record for the most amount of profanity's said in one LBP level ......Think I may be a contender for it.

I'm not going to list ALL the issues I had, I feel bad enough giving you negative feed back already with out rubbing yet more salt in.....so let me try and repeat what a lot of others are saying...it's TOO HARD! LOL..K One of the main issues is having to constantly back track to the last save point, and when you die 122 times (YEAH I COUNTED>>>SUE ME!) thats A LOT of frustrating back tracking! Why not have an unlimited lives gate on a FOLLOWER, with the emitter for the vehicle on there, so if you die you respawn at the same place?...Or if not, at LEAST a spawn at EVERY NEW OBSTACLE!!

Sorry that i couldn't put a positive spin on this revirew...considered lieing and saying I loved it, would have been A LOT easier, but I'm afraid I'm not good at that kind of thing.

Sorry mate!		2011-04-01 20:47:00

Author:
Shade_seeker
Posts: 328

I found the new locations of the checkpoints quite adequate know. there a few bits that could benefit from a extra checkpoint, but the amount of checkpoints doubled during my first and second try of this level which make it much more bearable, but thats me. Yeah, its hard, supposed to be that way judging from the the game this is based on. Maybe next time add a system where you can easily insert a checkpoint each two screens, but as this is now, it should not be to annoying for most people with a bit of skill to complete.2011-04-02 01:48:00

Author:
Alphagaia
Posts: 64

thanks everybody for your input.

At this point I think I'm going to put this level to rest. I think it's seen it's hayday, and even though only a few actually finished it I still have about 50% likes and 25% hearts.
I definitely learned a lot making this level (except how to make an easy level, I still can't do that. haha) I think I will republish one last time with a warning on the difficulty and length in the description.

So I'm unF4Fing for now, but I will be back when the creative itch returns. I'm gonna go work on my pile of shame (other games I want to play)

If you still want to leave feedback here though, it's cool, I'll still read them and keep that in mind for future levels.

Keep being awesome LBPCentral!
laters.
fei0x		2011-04-02 20:02:00

Author:
fei0x
Posts: 61

Ok, so I have had this level queued and bookmarked since you posted this thread.
Apologies for not playing it sooner.
Here are some things to consider:

Map. I had no idea it was a map on the first playthrough, I assumed it counted your diamonds or something.
Backtracking. The most annoying part of the level, was going through a whole section, only to find it blocked off by those darn candy cane walls. Backtracking was more troublesome than fun.
Dark section. Perhaps add some lights on the R2 waves? (see MM's Marvel level with Daredevil) Fumbling around in the dark is no fun (at least in LBP, har har).
Boss projectiles. They look exactly the same as the other enemies ones, so the player will assume they act the same, and be able to fire them back. Remember to keep all elements consistent as possible.
Visual goals The usual LBP crowd is used to have opening locations revealed to them (visually) as soon as they hit the switch. While I managed to find my way eventually, others may not have the patience required to do so. For this level I would suggest adding a flashing holo border around the target location on the mini map.
Length. This is different for everyone, but imo this level could be split into two easily and no one would complain.

As for the lack of completion, I would wager it's a combination of length, backtracking/getting lost, and not having the goal's location revealed on a silver platter.
It's a above average level, try not to feel discouraged.
Usually levels that require patience don't fare so well with the general LBP population.

The survival version was pretty good too.
Well worth playing!		2011-04-09 08:04:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513


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