Archive: 30 posts

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remember when MM said you could make an eighty hour RPG? well, i'm totally blown away by some of the efforts so far but one thing strikes me... they are a little on the short side. eighty hours would be four hours per level and all twenty slots taken up. so, is it possible to have a game that big or was it over-the-top to suggest it?

2011-03-11 20:08:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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use very long animations for all of your spells... oh and kill/ collect x missions. xp grinding.

2011-03-11 20:26:00 Author: Deftmute Posts: 730

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Slow combat and walls of text will soon eat up the time.

2011-03-11 20:29:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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If you can pack enough stuff into a level, then I don't see why not? It also depends on how hard you make it. Just think of Fallout 3, you'd walk through a door and not really do anything, just look in every box and check every body for ammo, bottle caps and stuff to sell, and that would last hours. You don't need a massive area of space to make a massive game. I bet you could make a game that lasts an hour, but is just one room. It doesn't even need to be a big room, just enough to interact with, enough to do that takes a certain amount of time.

2011-03-11 20:42:00 Author: ballisticola Posts: 157

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yeah but that would hardly be an enthralling RPG

2011-03-11 20:51:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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He wasn't being serious. Just trying to get the point across that you can make a buttload of stuff.

2011-03-11 21:03:00 Author: Sack-Jake Posts: 1153

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also the amount of legwork and repetition involved... might not want to think about it but most of those 80 hr rpgs spend most of their time doing the same thing over and over again.

2011-03-11 21:06:00 Author: Deftmute Posts: 730

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Yes it's technically possible specially if you will emit things that you need and destroy when you don't need them anymore and if they add native trans-level comunication (and they said on NY event that they consider to implement it) it will be even more easier. Thru it need a lot of efforts and probably you wont do it alone (but you know Cave Story was made by one man but thats rare)

2011-03-11 21:32:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Its possible, but like people said it would get boring--unless you made combat really good. Make a really long sidequest and give the player the option to grow really powerful, stuff like that

2011-03-11 22:33:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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Its possible, but like people said it would get boring--unless you made combat really good. Make a really long sidequest and give the player the option to grow really powerful, stuff like that isn't there a way of creating a huge world map and then having areas that expand when you move onto them? i haven't got LBP2 yet and didn't have LBP 1 so i'm a total newbie, but isn't there a way of generating towns and landscapes from the same basic parts? for instance, a building in one town could be similar but have a different roof and then when you went inside, the interior is also generated from a kit (so to speak). furniture could be arranged differently or coloured differently... is it feasible?

2011-03-11 23:02:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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isn't there a way of creating a huge world map and then having areas that expand when you move onto them? i haven't got LBP2 yet and didn't have LBP 1 so i'm a total newbie, but isn't there a way of generating towns and landscapes from the same basic parts? for instance, a building in one town could be similar but have a different roof and then when you went inside, the interior is also generated from a kit (so to speak). furniture could be arranged differently or coloured differently... is it feasible? No. Not unless, you the player did it.

2011-03-11 23:06:00 Author: jalr2d2 Posts: 256

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Also keep in mind that there wasn't anything saying that the hypothetical 80 hour RPG had to exist solely in one account's 20 level slots. I have a few mule PSN accounts and I can very easily publish a level that is linked to X amount of sub-levels that I've published using alternate PSN accounts. The whole RPG published top-levels would show up on my account but the majority of the level data could all be on other player accounts through level linking. The levels don't even need to be my accounts but other creators who are working on the project could use a handful of their slots to host levels for the RPG. If 20 top-level slots are not enough to cover the whole thing, even with all the sub-levels farmed out, then make a single hub level linking to the 20+ top levels. Of course a good game development company, or dedicated group of developers could spend year(s) putting together a quality 80+ hour RPG and those can still get boring, tedious or grind'ey. I'm not holding much optimism for a good RPG out of LBP that spans more than an hour or two. But we are still early in the LBP2 life cycle so possibly I'll end up being wrong.

2011-03-11 23:17:00 Author: Trindall Posts: 297

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isn't there a way of creating a huge world map and then having areas that expand when you move onto them? i haven't got LBP2 yet and didn't have LBP 1 so i'm a total newbie, but isn't there a way of generating towns and landscapes from the same basic parts? for instance, a building in one town could be similar but have a different roof and then when you went inside, the interior is also generated from a kit (so to speak). furniture could be arranged differently or coloured differently... is it feasible? Its possible, however the complexity of this depends on how complicated your battle system is and ultimately if you want battles on the map. I dont see the need for this technique, but you could if you wanted to.

2011-03-12 00:55:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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I think, more than anything else, the lack of a save system would severely cripple a lengthy rpg. You can't expect somebody to put in four hours consecutively so making levels that take four hours would never work. There's been some discussion on ways to get around the lack of saving. You could give players stickers to use on sticker switches, but, with rpgs xp and leveling up and stuff there's a LOT of variables to keep track of, so you'd need hundreds of stickers to account for it. Another option is a code that the player needs to write down and enter when they play again: that would be a bit easier as you could encode all the variables into it, but, depending on exactly how many variables there are, those codes can get really long. You'll also need to figure out a way to transfer your xp and stuff from level to level, meaning even more codes the player has to write down. It's a hassle for the player which translates to less fun.

2011-03-12 04:16:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Exactly, theres alot of variables too when making rpgs systems and i think one of the biggest challenges of creating rpgs is figuring out how the player will retain progress over stages. If you make an 80 hour rpg, Kudos to you, but chances are noone will play it that long. Theres not enough room for all the stickers, and even though i love rpgs, im not gonna write down codes just to play a LBP2 stage--which i'll probably lose anyway. My suggestion is focus on making the game more fun than it is long, it makes it more fun to create, and makes it more fun to play. 10-20 hours is a good amount to me in LBP2 If only we could save, this wouldnt be a problem, and we could create more awesome rpgs, but a lack of saving ultimately restricts some of the awesome things we could do in this game.

2011-03-12 05:21:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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I have a few mule PSN accounts and I can very easily publish a level that is linked to X amount of sub-levels that I've published using alternate PSN accounts. But sub-levels don't appear on anyone else's moone exept the creator's itself.. I'm not sure if you can do it this way: - Publish the sublevel as a normal level (not sublevel) on another account - Go on your normal creator account and then heart it, then put it in the level link where you need it to be - Then go back to you second account and make it a sublevel If this would work this would be awesome.. it would be like you have infinite thermo for a level.. I'm personally working on a RPG that will be divided into 5 playable top levels.. (4 main chapters and a Prologue).. I planned it to be about 4-5 hours long in total, about 1 hour per chapter. And i managed to make REALLY long levels in LBP1 (but not very beatiful) 80 hours however seems like a no-life project and would probably take 2 years to build..

2011-03-12 12:23:00 Author: thi766 Posts: 135

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It's pretty obvious why there aren't many yet... a good 80 hour RPG might take 80 months to complete. Well, maybe less but my point still stands.

2011-03-12 17:49:00 Author: octopus_567 Posts: 116

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It's a hassle for the player which translates to less fun. I think the best thing to do is think more in terms of the action-rpg genre (YSIII, Faxanadu, Zeloda and all it's clones etc) unless someone really wants to be the guy who sits down for quite a few months to iron out the 'middleware' for a full turnbased, dialogue tree, and data transfer system that will make 'rpg' more than just a clunky, hard to enjoy gimmick slapped onto a platformer.

2011-03-12 19:33:00 Author: Unknown User

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I don't think the middleware would that THAT difficult. Sure, it would take a while, but you could probably whip it up in a few weeks. Still, I have to agree with Ninja that an action rpg would be more suited to lbp and would likely be more fun to play (though it would be interesting to see what some of the more gifted animators could do with attack animations in a turns based game). As for stats, I think you'd pretty much have to abandon any sort of stat tracking. Essentially you'd need to narrow it down so that by the time you finish level 1, you'll have X amount of Xp and that's all you can have: no more, no less. It kind of waters down the rpg'ness of it but nobody is going to want to bother with codes and stickers are just plain impractical (as has been said). Basically, instead of Xp, your levels will be determined by events: after boss fight 1, you get the fire ability and so on. Another option is to make a super-simplified stat system where there are two or three potential outcomes by level's end and you're asked questions at the beginning of level 2 to put you back on the right track. "Were you a soldier or a wizard in level 1?" Or simply let the player choose their class or whatever at the beginning of each level. Try to keep the amount of work the player needs to do as minimal as possible, though: more time spent in menus=less time spent playing=less fun=fewer plays.

2011-03-12 23:14:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Oh yea, it wouldn't really be that hard... but you know how it is. There's always some minor things that you end up adding after you've already used it (so it gets 1.00, 1.01 etc treatment for months after publishing) and ways to keep streamlining it... plus getting it distributed and picked up, and making it understandable for everyone who's working on rpg's so they can use or rebuild it etc making one that's really all-purpose. For logic heads it'd be a blast, but for alot of people working on an RPG, it seems like they want the appearance of an RPG interface, more than they really want the functionality of a completely developed one. I agree ALOT with the idea of going the Tactics Ogre, FF Tactics, Disgaea route for strategy RPG's... I'd kill for a working chess table (with turn taking, move limitations and 'check&apos, and once that kind of quality of play is worked out, the idea of some awesome holo pixel art animation with even more rules and abilities on a decent sized, ultra detailed grid, with height advantages, and terrain factors - crazy spell effects etc etc it seems like it would be right at home, but imo would have to be designed in a way that the challenges progress in terms of AI and strategic odds from 'chapter' to chapter, rather than through HP & MP increase.

2011-03-13 10:51:00 Author: Unknown User

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What happens if it's 80 hours and 1 minute?

2011-03-13 11:16:00 Author: Unknown User

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it should be simple because its true, it will be less fun if you have to remember a code and so on.... also the creator will get tons of headaches trying to make sense of the complicated logic involved. i got a headache from just reading this thread.

2011-03-13 13:17:00 Author: nerzdadestroyer Posts: 1527

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Nobody should limit themselves, because then nobody will make it happen and push what we think is possible. I'm just saying that if you don't want to put X amount of work in to make it fluid, intuitive and functional, an ambiguous concept is going to reflect that and be more like a gimmick than a game.

2011-03-13 13:29:00 Author: Unknown User

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I only think the rpg's work as either concept or shorter levels in LBP. I'd rather play another game.

2011-03-13 15:23:00 Author: BasketSnake Posts: 2391

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I only think the rpg's work as either concept or shorter levels in LBP. I'd rather play another game. Yep. Even if somebody did make an 80 hour RPG, in fact even if they made a 10 hour RPG, I wouldn't play it. LBP (in my opinion) is for short levels. It's not the kind of game you'd dedicate many hours playing just one level/game.

2011-03-13 15:34:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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What happens if it's 80 hours and 1 minute? It can be even infinite, since you can link levels by other users. It's only matter of work time

2011-03-13 15:49:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I think people should try to make full scale RPGs. 80-- and now that i think about it, even 20 hours is a bit much for LBP. You could release the game in parts, and the player could heart the game and come back and play later. You would have to make it pretty interesting though, so they wouldn't forget about it. Most people wouldn't bother making a complete RPG because theres a ton of complex logic you have to put in that most people don't think about--then if the story is bare bones, all that complex logic goes to waste. Think of how MM did their story, its kinda the same how you would do a RPG, and that would be a full game. MM story was maybe 5 to 8 hours long depending on how much you do and if you make the game entertaining, i dont see how an rpg couldn't do the same. Its just we haven't seen a good-long rpg like that yet in LBP2, so its kinda hard to tell. Should be pretty interesting to see what people come up with in the coming months...

2011-03-13 15:54:00 Author: Rpg Maker Posts: 877

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it seems to boil down to level linking and manpower. so why not get on and start making a map/town creator. that may well take nearly a year, but think of the time saved after it's perfected. whoever makes this would have LBP status like no other. ...and would it be too much to ask of MM to make checkpoints, save points as well if necessary?

2011-03-13 19:02:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910

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I'd kill for a working chess table (with turn taking, move limitations and 'check&apos That wouldn't be too difficult. Getting the tables, turn taking system, moves, and check detection working, I mean. I wouldn't even try to do A.I. though. Yep. Even if somebody did make an 80 hour RPG, in fact even if they made a 10 hour RPG, I wouldn't play it. LBP (in my opinion) is for short levels. It's not the kind of game you'd dedicate many hours playing just one level/game. I mostly agree, but if a level/series was amazing enough, I'd keep coming back. I mean it would have to really A-freaking-MAZING though.

2011-03-13 19:50:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I would definitely play this, just not for 80 hours <8D

2011-03-13 19:56:00 Author: donta133 Posts: 182

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