Archive: 34 posts

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Now, before LBP1 was announced, some guy who worked for Sony said there was a possibility of them potentially adding the ability for a creator to charge people to play their level. This created a furor, and obviously nothing ever came of this. Now, I saw a post by Aya in another thread about this subject (albeit in a joking manner), which got me thinking- since LBP2 is built around the concept of "making your own games", could something like this be a viable thing for MM to grant? Have a creator be able to charge an amount of money to play a group of levels. Obviously, this would be controversial... and in need of some debate. And since we are a discussion forum about LBP, I figured we might as well allow people to debate this subject matter. What are your feelings of creators charging for access to their products, hypothetically speaking? Personally... well, I guess I'd say to leave as is since this does seem like it'd turn LBP into more of a corporate atmosphere... but I figured I might as well open this topic for debate. MM might even have considered it at one point and only removed it because of the backlash- or that one guy had no idea what he was saying. Still, open for debate. So... debate :kz: And answer the poll too. Yay.

2011-03-07 22:39:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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And no, I don't like this idea. Soon, LBP would become a game where you have to keep paying and paying just to play some decent levels. Not that EVERYONE would do that, but face it, if you could knew that you make money from your levels, you would sooner or later begin to charge. Plus, I live in a country that SONY isn't aware that exists, plus I can't buy anything from the store, meaning that the game would be unplayable. What about online play? Everyone in the group pays or just the host? Just... No.

2011-03-07 22:44:00 Author: gdn001 Posts: 5891

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I would not pay to play a level a user generated. Even if it was an awesome one. I can see why people would have to pay. Creators having to buy packs and stickers to make there concept, they do it while we just play. But I can't imagine it happening, kids would try to steal their parents' credit cards to play a level that had a potential to be crap. Then what do they do? Just sit there? Say WTF?

2011-03-07 22:44:00 Author: Spazz Posts: 484

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I would not pay to play any levels, nor would I want to charge for it. I paid 60 bucks for this game, half for the community levels; half for building them. Why should I pay to play the levels that I got the game for, or make others pay to play my work? I just want to make someone happy, not make money. It would ruin the community entirely and all kinds of noobs would spam crap levels and charge for them It would be disastrous. I say no.

2011-03-07 22:47:00 Author: ATMLVE Posts: 1177

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I reiterate that no with a resounding nooooo. I think it would definitely ruin LBP. These games cost enough money as it is. I don't even like buying add-ons, and generally don't. I think some developers hold back just to keep charging and charging and raking in more dough. I did buy POC addon and felt it was worth the $6 I paid for it, but you got a lot of usable content out of it and didn't just get to play a few good levels and that was that. If it was an awesome level and you wanted to return to play it again, would you have to pay again? I don't think this would ever come to fruition, I think the community would come to a grinding, screeching halt. For me, one of the draws of LBP was the community levels. It makes the game well worth the price. Like Kevin Butler says, "you don't finish LBP."

2011-03-07 23:47:00 Author: biorogue Posts: 8424

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The cost of paying for one or more people to do quality control would likely be much more higher than the revenue generated.

2011-03-08 00:00:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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i certainly wouldn't pay to play a level that's not the idea of LBP especially with the trash levels out there, you might pay to pay a level that's terrible or something and on another note I'd like more people to play my levels not less so I certainly wouldnt charge for them.

2011-03-08 00:14:00 Author: Elsa Posts: 164

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I'd imagine that would be the end of the LBP franchise if that happened before another sequel. Nobody would buy the next one as long as they'd have to pay to play. The only thing driving sales would be the hope of making a quick dollar. I doubt many would pay off the game that they'd bought either.

2011-03-08 01:22:00 Author: piggabling Posts: 2979

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No. Simple answer.

2011-03-08 02:01:00 Author: creator22 Posts: 162

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PLAY CREATE PROFIT! Hell Yeah! I answered "I Dunno" since I don't think any of the above options fit my idea of how pay for play would work in LBP. I think it could work, but not if there is just a simple option to charge for any ol' level. Sony/Mm would have to guarantee the quality of the level/levels in some way or else it'll just be a big mess. What I think could work is if there were a way to make user generated level packs, similar to Metal Gear/Pirates/Marvel packs but without the fancier bits of add-on content (like paintinator and water wouldn't be possible). What I have in mind is more of a developer kit. Say you buy a $200-$400 kit (or have to qualify for it), it contains a more powerful version of LBP2, allows you to import custom stickers and high quality audio. Allows you to do some of the tricks that Mm does, with colored and specialized speech. These levels wouldn't be able to be published as normal they would have to be quality tested and approved then released as DLC Packs. Sony/Mm would take their cut, but this opens up the opportunity for expert level creators to actually make some money designing levels and packs. Which means they would be spending more time making quality levels and collectibles and more high quality content available for players.

2011-03-08 02:01:00 Author: Osprey71 Posts: 93

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I pay for the dlc level packs, but if they were only levels with no goodies (materials, decos, stickers, etc.) I wouldn't (I actually don't like Mm's level design all that much). As for community levels and such, there's maybe half a dozen that I would consider good enough to pay for, and even then, I would only be willing to pay like 10 cents or so per level... and again, those are the truly phenomenal ones (none of my levels would make the cut). The problem with that business model is, how would I know which levels were phenomenal until I had already played (and payed for) them? Another idea that might work better would be for players to have to pay a monthly fee to play community level: say $5. Then creators could be paid for their levels based on the number of plays they get. Maybe 1/10 of a cent per play or something: for those creators who gets six digits of plays, that's over $100 and it would certainly make it easier to justify taking the time to build great levels that appeal to as many players as possible (though it would also reward all those darn bomb survival types, further congesting the level pages). I have no idea how many players there are or if the math would work out for that (might need to be 1/20 of a cent or 1/50 to make it work and it might need to only include unique plays), but that's a rough guess on a business model that might theoretically work. Of course there's the other side of it to consider: how many of our existing players would be willing to pay $5 a month to play or even $1 a month? My guess is not many. We'd probably end up with less than a quarter of the lbp players we currently have (and that's being optimistic) and they would drop like flies after the first two or three months, which means those $100 dollar levels would quickly become $25 dollar levels. At that point, the money you'd make from levels isn't worth it any more and the whole thing just goes downhill until nobody is playing or creating any more. In short, I don't think it's at all realistic. There may be other business models that I haven't considered that might be more viable though (I'm certainly not a business expert).

2011-03-08 02:10:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Never. I never use other Creator's objects in my levels (I think I may have used 3 or 4 MM objects in all of my 16 levels). I like my levels to be completely original. Everything is made by me. So - no.

2011-03-08 02:16:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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How bout something different, "Add objects" where its a premade object you can stick in your level and you get paid based on adviews just like google adsense or similar? I would love that option.

2011-03-08 02:29:00 Author: fodawim Posts: 363

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PLAY, CREATE, SHARE. PAY, CREATE, SELL? Don't think so... Not everyone, like myself, have access to online credit (being able to buy things online for one reason or another.) thus, this would most likely ruin the game for a lot of people. Oh, and RAWK, remember? http://www.lbpcentral.com:80/forums/showthread.php?14123-quot-Create-and-sell-your-own-DLC!-quot-a-feature-that-never-made-it.&p=245120 (You even posted there. xD) I'm pretty sure that if this was so disliked, even if it was about one and a half years ago, it probably would still be to date.

2011-03-08 03:30:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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None of it's good enough to pay for unless it was like Lockstitch for 40 levels.

2011-03-08 05:29:00 Author: Unknown User

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The max I'd pay to play a level would be 50 or 75 cents (like 2-3 quarters). It sounds interesting, but I think it'd be too difficult to manage on such a scale. Plus, Mm and Sony would technically be losing profit (unless they instante a policy that allows them 50/50 or 75/25 share due to distributing factors). Like, say for instance, we got someone like jump_button deciding to charge about one quarter ($0.25 USD) to play the whole Skytown series. He could get 1,000 plays, and even then, would be earning $250 if there's no policy instated. And if it were a Mm's Pick (levels that'd get over 100,000 plays on average, maybe over 1,000,000), we're talking about $10,000+ profit should they only charge a dime for each play. It sounds really cool, and I'm sure some people would appreciate it... but it just doesn't seem feasable. It's like a real-life "couch potato" job, where all you have to do is twiddle your joysticks around to make an earning. And that just deprives those who actually invest their time and treasure to make videogames for a living.

2011-03-08 05:37:00 Author: Outlaw-Jack Posts: 5757

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Well, just think about it. You use the crate mode, that other people have made, not you, to sell a user-made level. You are pretty much taking someone else's creation and selling it for yourself. I don't see this making it into the game at all. Mm spent a lot of their time hard at work to create a wonderful game that millions play and you are making money off it. It doesn't seem fair to them. And the amount of people playing the game would drop drastically if this feature was ever implemented. Many people that play the game don't have a credit card, and if they were young kids I don't think their parents would appreciate paying the fee, even if small for one user-created level in a game that they have already paid around $90 for. If you want to make money off something like a game you should learn to code instead of learning to move your thumbs.

2011-03-08 06:16:00 Author: Retro Posts: 104

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No way! Just wouldn't be right.

2011-03-08 17:06:00 Author: smasher Posts: 641

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....please dont tell me your planning on putting a price on your project >_> If its less than 1 dollar then good XD ON another note, what were doing isnt fully ours in the first place, I mean everything we do in LBP and LBP2 is only 40% ours you could say, the rest 60% is all MM's after all they did give us everything to get crazy with it. The idea, imagination and everything etc is ours of course. But the rest is just borrowed to us. "we cant sell something we dont own" atleast not 100% own, you know what I mean Im not gonna repeat =P

2011-03-08 17:08:00 Author: Bloo_boy Posts: 1019

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there's only one reason i'd pay a person for levels. i'd pay pay money with they made a level for me to my liking. but just pay to play a normal level? No. i'd only pay if the person made the level for me to my request~*mew

2011-03-08 17:12:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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To pay around ?45 for LBP2 to play all the great levels and then have to pay a further amount of money just to play the best. This would genuinnly ruin LBP

2011-03-08 17:13:00 Author: craigmond Posts: 2426

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If this feature was implemented, LBP would be the perfect place to scam people out of their money... however, what might work is a type of virtual currency... of course, for people to want to gain it in the first place, Mm would have to make a few new things, like mini-sticker packs (With 1 or 2 stickers in) cost this virtual money. Obviously you COULD buy this currency but you could earn it various ways, like for people playing your levels, daily bonuses, DLC bonuses and making your items cost money.

2011-03-08 17:18:00 Author: octopus_567 Posts: 116

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Q: Would I want to pay to play user generated levels? A: CHRIST NO!!! Seriously, just look at how low some people go just to attain hearts. If money becomes involved, things would be a lot worse. Scams for hearts would be replaced by scams for money. Just imagine the kind of levels we'd have. - FREE DLC COSTUMEZ WIV RArE Cr0wN *HaXXd* JUST PAY $1,500 DOLLARS AnD ILL OpEn Teh BOX!!! - BUY THIS LVL IF YOU THink pS3 is BettR than xB0X - BUY THIS LVL IF U Hate JUSTN BEIEBR - 50 JUMPS CAN U SurviVE FREE Money IF u Ace REACH teh ENd aNd I will BUY UR LVL - I NEED 50 DOLLARS to BUY CODBLOPS PLAY THIS LVL AnD PAY 50 DOLLARS Absolute madness. LBP community + capitalism = Bad idea. (btw, doesn't CODBLOPS sound like some sort of fish based laxative)

2011-03-08 17:37:00 Author: D-E-S_87 Posts: 148

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My immediate response is "no", but after thinking about the quality of some of the levels, I might, depending on how much. I have a feeling that the people that make these levels, however, are nice people and wouldn't. I know I wouldn't charge for mine, they're not good enough.

2011-03-08 18:59:00 Author: kirbyman62 Posts: 1893

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Q: Would I want to pay to play user generated levels? A: CHRIST NO!!! Seriously, just look at how low some people go just to attain hearts. If money becomes involved, things would be a lot worse. Scams for hearts would be replaced by scams for money. Just imagine the kind of levels we'd have. - FREE DLC COSTUMEZ WIV RArE Cr0wN *HaXXd* JUST PAY $1,500 DOLLARS AnD ILL OpEn Teh BOX!!! - BUY THIS LVL IF YOU THink pS3 is BettR than xB0X - BUY THIS LVL IF U Hate JUSTN BEIEBR - 50 JUMPS CAN U SurviVE FREE Money IF u Ace REACH teh ENd aNd I will BUY UR LVL - I NEED 50 DOLLARS to BUY CODBLOPS PLAY THIS LVL AnD PAY 50 DOLLARS Absolute madness. LBP community + capitalism = Bad idea. (btw, doesn't CODBLOPS sound like some sort of fish based laxative) Lol I could easily see that kind of stuff coming and people that hate Justin Bieber or people that hate X Box would most likely be the first to pay for that kinda stuff just to prove their hate lol. Those levels often tend to accumulate a lot of hearts so why not money if you had to pay for it? Absolutely ridiculous and those lousy creators would most likely make a fortune off it,

2011-03-08 20:19:00 Author: Elsa Posts: 164

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no way... Am i the only one who sees copyright issue's with this? I mean... i can just make tetris (or any other genious concept) and earn money with it without worrying about copyrights? misty

2011-03-08 20:20:00 Author: Mother-Misty Posts: 574

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Oh, and RAWK, remember? http://www.lbpcentral.com:80/forums/showthread.php?14123-quot-Create-and-sell-your-own-DLC!-quot-a-feature-that-never-made-it.&p=245120 (You even posted there. xD) I can't remember every thread I ever posted in, especially one from over a year and a half ago ....please dont tell me your planning on putting a price on your project >_> Nah of course not XD As I said I just wanted to see what people thought about the possibility, and myself would not do it if it occurred. However, for people saying that it's technically MM's work, not yours, and thus you can't sell... May I ask why we can sell stuff on engines made by another company, but to sell stuff in LBP would be to steal MM's work? One of their things was that LBP2 is its own engine, and so a lot of the work is done by the creator and not MM. Just something to think about. Anyway, I guess the decision is clear- if MM does this then they're screwed. XD

2011-03-08 20:31:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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However, for people saying that it's technically MM's work, not yours, and thus you can't sell... May I ask why we can sell stuff on engines made by another company, but to sell stuff in LBP would be to steal MM's work? One of their things was that LBP2 is its own engine, and so a lot of the work is done by the creator and not MM. Just something to think about. Anyway, I guess the decision is clear- if MM does this then they're screwed. XD True good point about that...but idk I guess it would mess things up if they did add this, and most likely we would have to pay more for "Stuff" (To put it in short words) , to be able to make things and sell them etc etc Anyway, hurry and finish your project =P or no more peanuts for you lol

2011-03-08 20:37:00 Author: Bloo_boy Posts: 1019

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Anyway, I guess the decision is clear- if MM does this then they're screwed. XD I still think my developers kit concept could work.

2011-03-08 22:19:00 Author: Osprey71 Posts: 93

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Soooooooo tempted to point out creepy stalker dude references right now... but I'll refrain. Anyways, "Pay To Play".... I don't. It's the same reason I don't believe in this whole PS+ member garbage SONY is trying to implement. It's elitist at best. If this happend I would drop LBP2 and steer clear of any other future Mm titles in a heartbeat. I'd certainly never pay to play a level, and would only remotely consider the notion of paying for really great user created content if people really wanted it. You know, stuff like amazingly complicated Logic chips (with accompanying full instructional DVD explaining how to use it), specialized character costumes, specific objects people can use in their own levels. Even then this wouldn't be good or really work for the community. I was talking about this very idea earlier today, and learned that SimCity has mod's that can be used by anyone... but that the users can make a "donation" to the creator for their time and efforts making the items. This is the only way I think you could set up a money generating user based content scheme in LBP. I know that if I could afford it and was impressed enough with someone's content they are giving away or level they made that I would gladly donate a buck or two here or there to make it worth their while... and to possibly keep more coming. It would have to be pretty spectacular stuff though! But yeah, donations are the only way this would even remotely work in my opinion.

2011-03-09 02:52:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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I'd hate to pay to play some level by a bloke I don't really know but I saw his level on front page and it had something to do with sharks and bombs... is there a way to get a refund? Well, I really don't think we should have to pay for levels. It's like buying a video game, and you can't play the first level until you pay for it again. Besides, I could be up all night playing levels in LBP, and not always worthy ones. I did have an idea that the creator can earn money not by charging but by ads, as in maybe an ad would appear before a level and the creator gets paid off plays. Much like the Youtube Partner system. Gabloogh?

2011-03-09 03:12:00 Author: Voodeedoo Posts: 724

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I'm going to have to say no to this. The way I see it, there are tons of levels based on franchises and copyrighted material. So selling a level like that would be like selling counterfeit merchandise, which seems wrong. As for the truly original levels, Mm would probably get a certain percentage of what it costs because they provided the materials to create it. However, in the end, they might end up paying you for the game than you are paying them. And of course they won't like that.

2011-03-09 03:16:00 Author: maddoggnick96 Posts: 272

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The only way it would work is the way a record deal works... 4 cents an album to the artist, and the label would just be ensuring there's no samples ... in this case it would be copyright material and 1 percent of revenue, with a minimum payout of $5. I'm tellin' you though... we throw around the phrases "better than story mode!" and "MM quality!" alot, but I don't think it's ever been anything more than hyperbole. Plenty in the community have made a level worth playing once or twice, but so far, none of them have made a substantial set of levels of superb story-mode quality that are consistent every step of the way and cohesive enough to actually warrant purchase as a 'game' and nobody's made a mini-game that's complete enough to offer the play value of something you'd get off PSN or Steam for $5. Same for the clunky, almost broken faux interfaces we try to create to imitate RPG's, saving, continues and passwords etc why on earth would I buy 20 community levels trying to be more than LBP2 allows, when I could just go buy Trine? The only thing that'd make purchases somewhat less scary an investment is a 5 minute teaser play, and chances are you'd have already played a huge chunk of the level in 5 minutes since thermo allows for at most 30 minutes of gameplay that doesn't involve a tedious amount of backtracking and recycling.

2011-03-09 04:08:00 Author: Unknown User

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the thing is, i think MM never, really never should do this, cause, the idea o Little Big Planet, is community, and if people begin to charge for play, the community will be split and lots of people not gonna support the game as they do these days. seriously, lots of people, dont gonna pay for play, so its obvious that the quantity of players, will be drastically dropped, like an anvil in MM?s head. LBP should never have the audience he has today if the charge option was avaiable, so, with that in mind, even if charging per play will make more cool and full worked levels, i think charge for player-content is not really a smart idea, its gonna be a loss for everyone, less players means less income for MM, and less people interested in playing LBP or make levels...

2011-03-09 21:54:00 Author: Unknown User

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