Archive: 24 posts

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I have emitted objects that have controlinator receivers on them. The x button of the controlinator receiver is linked to a 0,2 sec, self resetting timer that goes to a counter set to 10 that I use for power. It is connected to a two slot AND gate. In the other slot I have a NOT gate (input from x) that goes into a counter set to 1 to detect when the x button is released. The AND gate output is connected to a mover set to speed scale. The problem was that the power that the mover gets seems very low even if i wait until the power counter fills all the way up. Can I combine a few movers or get their maximum speed above 100? Another problem I noticed, sometimes a half full power counter will make the mover move a bit further than when it's full. It seems a bit inconsistent. Is it possible to somehow avoid that or should I use some other way to create a charge mechanism?

2011-03-02 00:54:00 Author: Unknown User

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I'm not sure of an exact answer to your question, but are you using normal Movers or Advanced Movers? I've found sometimes Advanced Movers make things move a lot quicker. An Advanced Mover's 100 value will make it move at 100 large grid blocks per second.

2011-03-02 01:50:00 Author: merkaba48 Posts: 79

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I THINK if you add more movers the speed is increased, I don't exactly know. But yes, as merkaba48 said, 100 will make it move at 100 large grid squares a second. And that's a lot!

2011-03-02 07:43:00 Author: mutant_red_peas Posts: 516

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Adding movers won't increase its max speed, but they will increase the strength and therefore the acceleration, which might be why one might think it increases speed.

2011-03-02 09:24:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I was using a regular mover. I only needed the movers to move in a single direction so I didn't think of trying the advanced ones. Thanks, I'll try that. I've tried putting multiple movers per object, it's not enough. It seems as if the object will only use the slowest active mover. I think the problem might be that the movers don't get a signal long enough to get pushed any real distance. For example a mover with 100 goes about as far as a mover with 30 speed if I trigger it with the x button release. I kind of fixed the problem by making the power charge out of a sequencer rather than a speedscale timer/counter. I made each power level of the sequencer activate a mover for a 0,1 second, then turn it off. It seems to give the movers a lot more power than before.

2011-03-02 17:06:00 Author: Unknown User

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Adding movers won't increase its max speed, but they will increase the strength and therefore the acceleration, which might be why one might think it increases speed. Ah, but if accelaration is set to 100% (which is generally the right thing to do with Speed Scale), then the object accelerates to its Maximum Speed in 1 frame, so additional movers will have no effect.

2011-03-02 18:55:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Ah, but if accelaration is set to 100% (which is generally the right thing to do with Speed Scale), then the object accelerates to its Maximum Speed in 1 frame, so additional movers will have no effect. However, if you set it to strength, you can get above 100. However, you also won't get a constant speed. Launching things at over 100 is easy to do however. You just use the parent velocity of a hologram or anything set to a mover-piston etc, and launch it from there. It it's moving at 100, and you launch it at 100, you should get a speed of 200. Used this technique to create a pinball launcher that launches at increasing speeds depending on how long you hold down X. That being said, "launching" and "controlling" are very different.

2011-03-02 21:25:00 Author: dr_murk Posts: 239

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If the player has 50 points, a Score Sensor set to read 10 points will output a signal of 500%. You can build a chip to create and store a 500% signal (in an OR hooked to itself) at the level start and the player won't even notice. You might be able to send that 500% signal through to a mover to get it going ridiculously fast. Also Oh hi, Tommy. I didn't know it was you.

2011-03-03 03:47:00 Author: Loius Posts: 342

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Ah, but if accelaration is set to 100% (which is generally the right thing to do with Speed Scale), then the object accelerates to its Maximum Speed in 1 frame, so additional movers will have no effect. True but that only applies to solid objects. Anything with moving parts will have extra drag from those parts but their mass isn't added into the mover's strength. Granted I haven't done any acceleration tests: only strength tests; but adding extra followers or rotators is something I do a lot to overcome mass problems (hologram, it turns out, does have mass though it's infinitesimal compared to solid materials, and I sometimes need to force a follower chunk of holo to stay steady when a rotating bit attached to it tries to swing it around so I add a second follower to strengthen it or help it keep up with the tag it's following).

2011-03-03 08:18:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Adding more followers WILL increase the speed pass the regular maximum of a mover, I can assure that at least, I've been playing around with that for a while actually, and there IS a noticable difference if you add more than one mover full speed.

2011-03-03 08:31:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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I added 4 movers to my pinball plunger to get it to accelerate fast enough whilst pushing the ball. Didn't think it would work but it does!

2011-03-03 13:44:00 Author: Unknown User

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If I use a self resetting timer set to 3-4 seconds, connect it to a mover, for how long does the mover get turned on when the timer fills up? Is the on signal just 0,1 sec, or is it less? It seems less. Because it seems that timers will need some small time frame to get moving full speed. I had a mover with 100 in speed, but when it turned on it's for such a short period of time that the mover only moves less than 10 large grids, not around 100. I went around this by using 2 timers for the mover, the first timer turns on the mover and turns on the second timer (set to 0,1) that resets the first timer and turns off the mover but this seems very messy, is there a cleaner way to do this? Thanks for the replies guys, lots of ideas I'll have to try out.

2011-03-03 15:22:00 Author: Unknown User

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True but that only applies to solid objects. Anything with moving parts will have extra drag from those parts but their mass isn't added into the mover's strength. True. Actually I noticed something else kinda weird too. It also doesn't seem to apply correctly to glued objects either. When I first built the ship for my Spacewar ripoff, I was trying to make just the outline of the ship visible, rather than being a solid block. In both cases, the total volume of the ship was the same, but with the outline version, the mover was attached to a much smaller piece of hologram (effectivley the part inside the outline which would be invisible in play mode), but the forces the mover produced on Strength Scale were much lower than the solid version. Granted I haven't done any acceleration tests: only strength tests... They're effectively the same thing. When you're using Strength Scale, the acceleration applied is proportional to the input signal strength multiplied by the "Acceleration" setting (assuming "Deceleration" is set to zero). I think the idea is that they're both scale factors between 0.0 and 1.0, so the total acceleration can never be higher than 1.0, and a value of 1.0 means to produce whatever force is required to make that object (excluding the stuff it's attached to) accelerate to the "Max Speed" setting in one simulation frame. Once that force has been calculated, it's applied to the object as a whole, so if there are other attached objects, then acceleration won't be sufficient to make the object accelerate to Max Speed in one frame, which can be kinda irritating, so that's when you need additional movers to increase the force beyond that which can be done with a single mover. Or, mathematically... mp ae = am x ---- mt ...so the effective accelation on the object is equal to the acceleration you set on the mover, multiplied by the mass of the part of the object the mover is attached to, divided by the total mass of all the object's parts, and since the mass of any single part of an object can never exceed its total mass, that gives you yet another scale factor between 0.0 and 1.0. So, if the part of the object which the mover is attached to represents, say, a quarter of the object's total mass, then you'll need 4 identical movers to compensate. ...but adding extra followers or rotators is something I do a lot to overcome mass problems... I initially went with this approach, until realizing the significance of the mass ratios, at which point, I adjusted the masses to compensate instead, ending up with just one mover per function: one for thrust, and one for gravity. ...hologram, it turns out, does have mass though it's infinitesimal compared to solid materials... Yeah. I noticed that too. I suspect all materials have a nominal finite mass, otherwise it really screws the math when you have to start dividing by zero or infinity. It's not too bad when your entire object is made of hologram, but once you start mixing it with other materials, make sure you attach the movers to the solid material, not the hologram, or they won't have much effect. Adding more followers WILL increase the speed pass the regular maximum of a mover, I can assure that at least, I've been playing around with that for a while actually, and there IS a noticable difference if you add more than one mover full speed. Again, I don't think it's increasing the maximum speed, but the rate of acceleration, so I don't think it's possible to make a mover move faster than it's max speed, just by using movers. You'll need to cheat it somehow. If I use a self resetting timer set to 3-4 seconds, connect it to a mover, for how long does the mover get turned on when the timer fills up? Depends on the Input Action setting. Because it seems that timers will need some small time frame to get moving full speed. Well, if you're using a scaled input action, then a variable input signal will cause variable acceleration. I had a mover with 100 in speed, but when it turned on it's for such a short period of time that the mover only moves less than 10 large grids, not around 100. Might help to elaborate on the application, but, like I said, you can't make a mover go any faster than its Max Speed. Even with Speed Scale, an Acceleration setting of 100% doesn't necessarily mean 100% if the part of the object it's attached to represents a small fraction of the object's total mass.

2011-03-03 17:38:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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I initially went with this approach, until realizing the significance of the mass ratios, at which point, I adjusted the masses to compensate instead, ..... It's not too bad when your entire object is made of hologram, but once you start mixing it with other materials, make sure you attach the movers to the solid material, not the hologram, or they won't have much effect. I've run into situations where purely holo objects don't want to cooperate. The lightning bolt I made for my Darth Vader boss is an example: the follower and rotator were on one end of the object (three lightning bolts that light sequentially during an attack) so that it would pivot around him, but it was really wonky: it kept trying to rotate around its center so that the follower and the rotator were fighting each other and it would wobble like crazy while turning. I solved it by gluing a chunk of holo on the back end and extending it off in the opposite direction from the bolt as a "counterweight." Another effective technique, if the whole object is thin, is to glue a chunk of thick layer holo to the part you want it to rotate around. Thick material has five times the mass of thin so it's five times as effective as a counterweight. And since holo can easily overlap, you can make extra pieces and glue them overlapping. Normally, though, all I need to do is make the anchor piece a bit bigger to offset any torque problems or other conflicts.

2011-03-03 18:19:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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The lightning bolt I made for my Darth Vader boss is an example: the follower and rotator were on one end of the object (three lightning bolts that light sequentially during an attack) so that it would pivot around him, but it was really wonky: it kept trying to rotate around its center so that the follower and the rotator were fighting each other and it would wobble like crazy while turning. Umm. The positions of rotators on a object are irrelevant - they always apply to center of mass. If you want it to rotate around another point, you need to either create a fulcrum (by bolting it to something else which can't move), or change the center of mass... I solved it by gluing a chunk of holo on the back end and extending it off in the opposite direction from the bolt as a "counterweight." ...which is exactly what you did here.

2011-03-03 19:42:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Instead of multiple movers, you can always just negate the extra mass with antigrav.

2011-03-03 20:05:00 Author: Jaeyden Posts: 564

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Umm. The positions of rotators on a object are irrelevant Yeah, it wasn't the position of the rotator that was significant so much as it was the position of the follower. As for a fulcrum, I had an experience with that the other day where the anchored object (anchored by a follower) was getting yanked around by the rotating one. Same issue: the anchoring piece needed more mass so I doubled its size and added a second follower and that fixed it right up. Instead of multiple movers, you can always just negate the extra mass with antigrav. No you can't. Antigrav negates weight, not mass. And I don't know if you were adding to the discussion Aya and I were having (which admittedly might be a bit off topic, but I think it's still relevant) or to another point, but when talking about holo, it's already weightless so antigrav won't do anything.

2011-03-03 20:36:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Yeah, it wasn't the position of the rotator that was significant so much as it was the position of the follower. Same applies to the follower surely, i.e. that the force it produces is also applied to center of mass? As far as I can tell, the only significance of a follower's position is in determining when it activates.

2011-03-03 21:31:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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No, followers center themselves on whatever they're following irrespective of the center of mass. That's how I did my updated lightsabers: there are 9 followers that switch on/off to move the saber around in relation to the sackbot (I did it that way so you wouldn't have to swing it over your head or under your feet to move it from one side of the bot's body to the other).

2011-03-03 21:53:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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No, followers center themselves on whatever they're following irrespective of the center of mass. Sure, but when the force is applied to actually move the object, the force is applied to center of mass. Otherwise a follower positioned at one end of a long block of pink floaty would cause the block to rotate around the center of mass as it follows, which it doesn't.

2011-03-03 22:00:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Ah. Hadn't thought of that. Yeah, that makes sense.

2011-03-03 22:02:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Yup, well I stand corrected. Interesting findings.

2011-03-03 23:47:00 Author: Jaeyden Posts: 564

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Depends on the Input Action setting. If the timer is set to count up, 4 seconds, set to reset itself when full and linked to a mover with on/off input setting and 100% acceleration, 100 max speed. How long would that signal from the timer last when it becomes full, before self resetting? Less than 0,1 second? The timer could also be a self resetting counter I guess. I'm using a mechanism that starts a fast timer that fills a counter gradually when you press and hold x, that leads into an AND gate which will not fire the signal until the x button is released. I want to know how long this signal is being sent out, theres a self resetting counter that triggers when you release x, so I'm interested in finding out how long a timer/counter signal exists before it self resets.

2011-03-04 01:05:00 Author: Unknown User

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If the timer is set to count up, 4 seconds, set to reset itself when full and linked to a mover with on/off input setting and 100% acceleration, 100 max speed. How long would that signal from the timer last when it becomes full, before self resetting? Less than 0,1 second? One frame, which is 1/30th of a second.

2011-03-04 18:41:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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