Archive: 45 posts

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I get sick of getting downrates that are just like "unhappy face!" and that's it. I get mostly positive reviews on my levels, but it seems that I always get unexplained downrates. I even got a "cool level be my friend please" downrate. I don't get it. Is it sour grapes, or just rating trolls, or what? IMHO you should always justify a downrate.

2011-03-01 04:54:00 Author: Shiro Posts: 108

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I got my first unhappy face today and I agree. Some feedback would help us learn what people like or dislike. Also, suggestions on how to do something better would also be welcome. I suppose we have to just accept them. I've hearted some amazing games that have quite a few unhappy face ratings. I personally give more weight to feedback than either face ratings, as they take more effort to do.

2011-03-01 05:22:00 Author: Unknown User

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I've sort of come to the conclusion that downrates are rubbish. I wish the star rating system was back.

2011-03-01 05:30:00 Author: Shiro Posts: 108

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I'm guessing most of the downrate are kids who can't learn to play a specific level. I noticed it in my latest racing level: there were people that, despite me explaining the controls at the beginning of the level and having said controls appear on-screen constantly due to the controllinator tags, completely failed to learn the controls and got stuck. There is no way to please everybody

2011-03-01 09:32:00 Author: Vergil Posts: 155

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You shouldn't be forced to explain what you dislike about a level if you downrate it. Just like you don't have to explain why you like a level if you rate it up/heart it. Some people don't have time or just can't be bothered. The whole point in the rating system is that it's quick and easy, and if people feel like they have to justify their opinions every time then they won't bother giving an opinion at all. I'd much rather people downrated my level without explanation than rated it wrongly or skipped the rating altogether, because that would only give me false or no feedback.

2011-03-01 13:15:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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i actually love the sadface, because it looks like it's embarrassed by it's own shortcomings, heh... and i take some joy in knowing they left a wreck but they don't really sting, especially with visible ratios, as one of 3 options, than having 5 stars for 100 plays and magically dropping to 3 stars on the 101st, knowing someone just gave you 1 star, and you want to punch a sackbot. I love the new rating system... people have made good use of it & it makes me happy when it yields good results. Though I'm still waiting for that special weighted rating/cool pages push thing to take effect in my neighborhood.

2011-03-01 14:54:00 Author: Unknown User

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There was a trending thread on this a few days back. Someone said that most people who downrate an obviously good level are usually people who hva eno levels of their own, have chosen to hide their profile online, or have a few levels with minimal plays or are badly rated. Their jealous of the great work you did, just ignore them and move on.

2011-03-01 15:08:00 Author: ATMLVE Posts: 1177

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I agree with Nuclearfish on this one. Sure I'd love to know why someone downrated a level, so I can think if it's something I need or want to improve upon, but I would much prefer that to people not rating at all. In the incidences where I play a level and can't decide between smile or frown, I tend to leave a neutral feedback telling the person what I like and what I hate, but if I like, I yay, if I don't, I boo. However, at the same time, I don't exxpect everyone to have the time to give full feedback on a level, they're playing for kicks. That's where F4F in the showcase comes in

2011-03-01 15:08:00 Author: rialrees Posts: 1015

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Totally agree with Nuclearfish... I also don't see how the star system was any better, you could be given 1 star with no explanation. I prefer the new system in that any rating is optional. Some percentage of unhappy faces is to be expected on any level. Even without an explanation the ratio of unhappy faces to happy ones is still useful information, I think your level is probably pretty good if the ratio is like 10% or something. Of course what the ratio is that denotes a potential problem with the level will vary based on what type of level it is and what audience you are targeting. No level will appeal to every gamer and a certain percentage of unhappy faces can be chalked up to noise...don't get upset about it. Perhaps one reason for a legitimate unhappy face not providing an explanation is the inaccessibility of the comments section.

2011-03-01 15:10:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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You shouldn't be forced to explain what you dislike about a level if you downrate it. Just like you don't have to explain why you like a level if you rate it up/heart it. Some people don't have time or just can't be bothered. The whole point in the rating system is that it's quick and easy, and if people feel like they have to justify their opinions every time then they won't bother giving an opinion at all. I'd much rather people downrated my level without explanation than rated it wrongly or skipped the rating altogether, because that would only give me false or no feedback.I don't care if SOME people don't justify their downrates, but no one has EVER justified a downrate on a single one of my levels. I wish that at least one of them would take the time to explain. Way more people bother to tell you what they like about your levels than what they don't. I don't see what's so hard about writing a review.

2011-03-01 22:38:00 Author: Shiro Posts: 108

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Don't take it personally. They're just kids. In my experience a minimum of 1% of your plays will result in a random frown face because of sour grapes, because there wasn't a free costume, or because they were feeling gassy (?).

2011-03-01 22:43:00 Author: Sickivionkey Posts: 70

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Haha I've gotten boos and hearts from the same person many times, I just try not to get annoyed by it.

2011-03-01 23:00:00 Author: Jayhawk_er Posts: 403

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Yup, only kids and stupid people can have any negative feelings about a level don't kid yourself. It's been said over and over but people can't seem to get it in their head that we can not be forced to "justify" a rating. Why you even call it justify is a bit beyond me, as if a negative rating is such a crime. If you think being forced to write a reason for your rating will help, well that's a laugh. Get ready to read thousands of "reasons" that read something like this "..." or"." or maybe you'd like a "_" yup! That's helpful Constructive criticism is nice but it certainly should not be mandatory. A negative rating with no given reason DOES NOT mean the rater lacks a reason.

2011-03-01 23:33:00 Author: Littlebigdude805 Posts: 1924

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I didn't read other posts, but I have rated fairly few levels with an unhappy face. The reason (for me) is that I want the trophy that requires lots of Boos or Yeahs. So I usually rate it Boo, unless it would deserve a heart, that's when I give a happy face. I will probably stop downrating after I get the trophy, and then rate up to cheer up the newer creators. I just tend to downrate it unless it is a good level.

2011-03-01 23:47:00 Author: Saku401 Posts: 83

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I love the new rating system. It's cut and dried. I don't really care if people sad face my levels though. The reasons why people sad face a level is totally opinion. It could be any reason. I learned a long time ago that you can't please everybody, so I quit caring a long time ago why people rate low.

2011-03-02 01:01:00 Author: smasher Posts: 641

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Well dude it seem like it happens to everyone. Some people might just do it to be a troll , or some people do it because they didn't like it or something. Look at Little Dead Space its a great level ,but still got dislikes. Its the internet no one should be force to write a review for a level you should , see the problem for yourself im getting better at making levels just because of them, trolls or not.

2011-03-02 01:16:00 Author: tuyyui Posts: 175

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all my frowns are totally justified.

2011-03-02 01:32:00 Author: Deftmute Posts: 730

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I think it's because it's too easy to hit the wrong thing. Depending on your costume, it's not always clear which is yay and boo. People just trying to get back to their pod quickly might do it. I've had to stop my kid from almost doing it by accident to levels he loved.

2011-03-02 02:03:00 Author: Unknown User

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Quick and easy explanation for why downraters downrate with no explanation, in my totally insane view: 1. They expected something different than what you provided, and thus feel betrayed enough to blindly hate anything they see for a span of five minutes. 2. Your level is so good that it left their hands shaking, and they downvote it accidentally. But they can't be made to change it back, because darn it, there's other cooler things to do, like making a hat that shoots other hats. 3. Snobby artsy perfectionists twiddle their pinstripe mustaches as they downvote your level - and because all art is nonsense condensed in pastels and agony, they don't leave behind any criticism. Elitist jerks. 4. Snidley Whiplash's greatest scheme yet is to downvote random levels, inspiring enough chaos to the point that the community is divided in half. His next step is unknown. 5. Through an incredibly vague loophole in the EULA, individuals are downvoting without explanation for the chance to visit a ski club in Saskatchewan. 6. Some of the best and most corrupt creators have hired agents, deploying them and having them stealthily downrate levels so that they may maintain popularity. 7. Skydiving. That is all. 8. Someone in an Asian country has the detonator belonging to a nuclear device resting in a major metropolis - and in order to prevent him from shattering the futures of millions and increasing the demand for janitors, his demands are that people downvote levels without saying why. 9. Jealousy, as mentioned above. 10. A big fat hen!

2011-03-02 02:23:00 Author: SLS10 Posts: 1129

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Personally I love the new rating system, it gives you a better idea of what peeps think of the level. As for the ratings, don't take it to seriously. As said above, sometimes people downrate for odd reasons. Here's an example: a guy called Chocobo_Billy downrated my FF music level that had extremely good ratings and stuff because of awesome music. I figured he downrated it because my level had no prizes: I checked his activity- on the results, he's been disliking a bunch of levels and then rated up on a level with the FFVII boss theme that had the music as a prize. He must not be good with music... But ya if you have tons of dislikes for great levels it's kids, dummies, and trolls.

2011-03-02 02:42:00 Author: Fang Posts: 578

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I've sort of come to the conclusion that downrates are rubbish. I wish the star rating system was back. So unexplaned 1 stars are better?

2011-03-02 04:17:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Yup, only kids and stupid people can have any negative feelings about a level don't kid yourself. It's been said over and over but people can't seem to get it in their head that we can not be forced to "justify" a rating. Why you even call it justify is a bit beyond me, as if a negative rating is such a crime. If you think being forced to write a reason for your rating will help, well that's a laugh. Get ready to read thousands of "reasons" that read something like this "..." or"." or maybe you'd like a "_" yup! That's helpful Constructive criticism is nice but it certainly should not be mandatory. A negative rating with no given reason DOES NOT mean the rater lacks a reason. Well, maybe I don't get the way they use ratings. I downrate only if I hate the level, or found a massive glitch, and I never hesitate to say why. I would honestly rather read "YOUR LEVEL IS A MASSIVE PILE OF RUBBISH!" than just see an unhappy face. At least that's a real opinion. @Shadowriver: Unexplained 1 stars don't look as bad on your star rating.

2011-03-02 06:37:00 Author: Shiro Posts: 108

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I've come to learn that if your good...at anything...people will be jealous of you. The more your good at the more haters you'll have. Your friends might even be jealous of you. Everyone has egos, and everyone feels envy. Even me, I'll admit I get jealous of peoples' levels/sucesses but the difference between me and others is I don't ever try to bring someone down. In fact I encourage them. I know more good things come out of someone being better than me. They motivate to do things I never thought I could do. I think people who do try to bring down are weak and aren't strong enough to ignore their own ego. I'm kinda off topic but basically, use others negativity to make yourself better. Some people are just bitter and cynical and insecure about their skills and abilities and want everyone to stay in middle school instead instead of going off to high school. Some people just live difficult lives and have to find fufilment in something. Sometimes it can irritate me but I realize I'm only becoming just as bitter and cynical as them. So yeah...

2011-03-02 07:14:00 Author: comishguy67 Posts: 849

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Because they are noobs my friend, noobs. http://i55.tinypic.com/o5zzt5.jpg

2011-03-02 07:35:00 Author: Onii55 Posts: 153

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I didn't read other posts, but I have rated fairly few levels with an unhappy face. The reason (for me) is that I want the trophy that requires lots of Boos or Yeahs. So I usually rate it Boo, unless it would deserve a heart, that's when I give a happy face. I will probably stop downrating after I get the trophy, and then rate up to cheer up the newer creators. I just tend to downrate it unless it is a good level. Yeah, youre the worst kind of offender. You think your virtual trophy is worth so much more than the human feelings that you would hurt to get it. Well, how about we all come around your pod and downrate you for our precious trophies?

2011-03-02 08:11:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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I've come to learn that if your good...at anything...people will be jealous of you. The more your good at the more haters you'll have. Your friends might even be jealous of you. Everyone has egos, and everyone feels envy. Even me, I'll admit I get jealous of peoples' levels/sucesses but the difference between me and others is I don't ever try to bring someone down. In fact I encourage them. I know more good things come out of someone being better than me. They motivate to do things I never thought I could do. I think people who do try to bring down are weak and aren't strong enough to ignore their own ego. I'm kinda off topic but basically, use others negativity to make yourself better. Some people are just bitter and cynical and insecure about their skills and abilities and want everyone to stay in middle school instead instead of going off to high school. Some people just live difficult lives and have to find fufilment in something. Sometimes it can irritate me but I realize I'm only becoming just as bitter and cynical as them. So yeah... It doesn't really bother me as much as it makes me question the rating system. I was bullied in Elementary and Middle School. No form of negativity really bothers me anymore.

2011-03-02 08:45:00 Author: Shiro Posts: 108

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I totally agree with the OP. I mean, flattery is all good after getting a good rating, but it's the neg that can help you improve on your level. And compared to the LBP1 rating system, I think this one is superior due to the fact that you actually have to "make an effort" to rate a level. By that I mean that you actually have to press a couple of buttons in order to vote and not just blast through like in LBP1 usually leaving 70% of all levels with three stars or whatever the majority had alreay voted. But to stick to the subject: I think people downrating levels are afraid of starting flame wars on the forums so that's why they just let it float.

2011-03-02 09:35:00 Author: Discosmurf Posts: 210

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I've seen it happen. I was playing one of my old levels online and some kid on my friends list who I didn't really know invited himself to join me in the middle of the level, played for less than 1 minute, then quit the moment he had trouble with an (optional) section, leaving a frown as he went on his merry way. Needless to say, he's not on my friends list any more. He probably didn't know the level was made by me, but that is no excuse. This is why we don't give persons under the age of 18 the vote.

2011-03-02 10:22:00 Author: zabel99 Posts: 179

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Interesting = YAY Not enough effort = booo........ shame on you. Rarely do I give boos. But the main reason I give boos is game-play. If it's annoying, or too familiar, booo......... Like the squirrel level for that Hansel and Gretel-bot series. Liked the concept, but all I did was mash R1 and it was the same fights over and over again. It got really repetitive and what annoyed me the most was I could not aim with the right stick. Looked good though. But when you play games with hype, you have to raise the bar.

2011-03-02 10:55:00 Author: Devious_Oatmeal Posts: 1799

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I don't care if SOME people don't justify their downrates, but no one has EVER justified a downrate on a single one of my levels. I wish that at least one of them would take the time to explain. Way more people bother to tell you what they like about your levels than what they don't. I don't see what's so hard about writing a review. Those who dislike a level probably see no reason to bother spending time on a review. If a level is good you're more likely to give feedback to show your praise and appreciation to the creator than if you disliked the level. The fact most who see a review about why they disliked a level gets boo'd a lot too probably doesn't help to an extent either. Unless you write a review that hails the level as "best thing ever" and "needs an MM pick" some people boo it, so a review that doesn't do that at all is clearly going to get boo'd. Which is probably enough to not encourage people to bother.

2011-03-02 11:36:00 Author: Moonface Posts: 310

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I rarely boo because when I don't like a level at all, I don't leave feedback at all. The only reason I'd boo a level would be if it took to underhanded tricks like a misleading name or forcing me into level link loops with scoreboards. Also there is the risk of people getting REALLY MAD AND UPSET and going ballistic on you for downrating their level.

2011-03-02 12:47:00 Author: ll_ye Posts: 236

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Every level gets some boo's. It's just part of the game. There is not one level/game out there on the LittleBigPlanet 2 omniverse that has completely positive feedback. The best thing you can do is ignore it, if it gets to you.

2011-03-02 13:15:00 Author: creator22 Posts: 162

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I didn't read other posts, but I have rated fairly few levels with an unhappy face. The reason (for me) is that I want the trophy that requires lots of Boos or Yeahs. So I usually rate it Boo, unless it would deserve a heart, that's when I give a happy face. I will probably stop downrating after I get the trophy, and then rate up to cheer up the newer creators. I just tend to downrate it unless it is a good level. This is the exact behavior that set the first game back so badly. It really is the personification of what is wrong with this game. The tagline is, "Play, Create, Share", and "Share" is not something you do to get something for yourself, i.e, a trophy.

2011-03-02 13:59:00 Author: nextlevel88 Posts: 149

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@Shadowriver: Unexplained 1 stars don't look as bad on your star rating. So you telling me that you want star rateing just to hide the truth? thats not change the fact that they could give you 1 1 star and 9 five star. They can't force people to review every single level they dislike specially on machine that don't have a keyboard. And keep in mind majority of LBP players are not arty guys like you and don't care much aboput levels and even creators. This won't change, so you better use to it or you gonna hurt yourself forever complaning why one guy or another dislike your level. Every level will get dislike sooner or later and don't care about LBP1 level dislikeing, most people dislike it just becaue it's LBP1 level

2011-03-02 15:40:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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This is why we don't give persons under the age of 18 the vote. Do you mean like, Presedintial (Probably spelled that wrong.) or LBP2 rating system? Because, if you meant the latter, you just stereotyped me, and all the other Sackpeople under 18 as downraters. When I bet there are a bunch of adults that downrate, and a bunch of kids that do it honestly. But if you meant the former, ignore the above. Anyway, sometimes, when I'm playing with friends I don't take the time to write out a review because I just want to play with my friends. Not make them wait while I type a paragraph.

2011-03-02 17:57:00 Author: jalr2d2 Posts: 256

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This is the exact behavior that set the first game back so badly. It really is the personification of what is wrong with this game. The tagline is, "Play, Create, Share", and "Share" is not something you do to get something for yourself, i.e, a trophy. Agreed. @Saku401, if a level isn't heartable does that mean it sucks? No. A level can still be good and not be something you'd want to heart. Why Boo levels when you said if it wasn't for the trophy you'd put a Yay? What's to stop you putting a Yay now? I don't see the difference nor reasoning behind your methods.

2011-03-02 21:50:00 Author: Moonface Posts: 310

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This is a complicated subject. As others have said, there's always going to be a certain percentage and no level can please everybody, no matter how good. Same with movies, bands, etc. I know it can hurt the creator's feelings a bit and leave you wondering what they didn't like. Especially anyone on this forum, as they are obviously more dedicated creators than people who just play around in create for 20 minutes and publish whatever it is to get a trophy. Just like anything (youtube, whatever...), everyone has their own rating standards. Some may boo everything but their absolute favorites. Some may yay or boo based mostly one aspect of the level, such as artwork or prizes. Some may boo anything that's popular, just because they think it's overrated or are jealous. Some may boo anything based of an existing license because they want to see originality or some may tend to only like things based on existing IPs/licenses. Some may yay all but the very worst things they play. Difficulty, or perceived difficulty seems to have a large role as well. It seems to me like a lot of the most highly rated levels (at least platformers) are ones that are very pretty and not all that challenging. Not that I'm against a quick, fun romp through a well designed environment, by any means, but some people probably tend to try something slightly challenging once or twice and then be like "******* this" and just leave or boo. Like someone said, kids may be a factor too. They may not be good enough for the more challenging levels, or may accidentally boo. People playing some levels with multiple players may have a more frustrating go of it as well. It's very difficult to design a level that's not a cakewalk that works well for 3-4 players (not even the story mode levels do this well). It's just the way it is. Or if a level is designed for 1P only and people don't know or read that before entering, they may get mad. Personally, I try only to boo when it's obvious the person put very little effort into the level. If a level at least shows some good ideas but is flawed, I will generally just leave it neutral and sometimes leave a review or comment. I do like the stats and history LBP2 give you access to. For example, I can tell that the completion rate on my level Junkyard Jailbreak is a bit low, probably due to it being long with some challenging parts (I think they are challenging in a fun, fair way -- not because of glitchiness, hard to navigate terrain, etc.). But it seems like the people who do finish it tend to really like it, and I've gotten some reviews to that effect. So that's rewarding to see, because those are the types of players I made it for.

2011-03-03 00:20:00 Author: Roo5676 Posts: 62

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Although I try to leave feedback I have left both yay's and boo's without comments. Why? Sometimes I don't want to take the time, might not have my keyboard out. Other times I just don't know where I would start, if a level is at a certain stage of bad it is kind of like "What's the point?". My momma always said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.". I've broken that rule a few times but usually I will boo and just move on. If a level shows some sort of promise I'll usually leave constructive feedback. I'm just chiming in to say that comment-less boo's aren't just from kids.

2011-03-03 01:57:00 Author: Osprey71 Posts: 93

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So you telling me that you want star rateing just to hide the truth? thats not change the fact that they could give you 1 1 star and 9 five star. They can't force people to review every single level they dislike specially on machine that don't have a keyboard. And keep in mind majority of LBP players are not arty guys like you and don't care much aboput levels and even creators. This won't change, so you better use to it or you gonna hurt yourself forever complaning why one guy or another dislike your level. Every level will get dislike sooner or later and don't care about LBP1 level dislikeing, most people dislike it just becaue it's LBP1 level #1: One person's opinion is not the truth. A star rating system focuses more on the majority's opinion. This rating system is too black and white. An option in between yay and boo would be nice. #2: I'm not really even complaining. I don't care that a person boo'd my level, I just don't see why they can't even explain why. Even without a keyboard I can explain why. I guess I'm just a whole different breed of LBPer.

2011-03-03 08:08:00 Author: Shiro Posts: 108

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Why should the need to explain anything. They don't like the level, its not to their taste, period. Maybe they don't like that style, maybe they don't like the gameplay, maybe they just don't like the genre, simple as that, thing is, not everyone's gonna like everything, that's not reason to have to force everyone into haveing to say why they dislike something, every simgle time they do. Even if people were forced, people could still just say "Didn't like it," bam, same deal, you wanted explanation? There it is! Did it change anything? Nope.

2011-03-03 08:37:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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One of the main reasons I rarely leave a review is because I know I won't get to say everything I want to. That's why I started my review corner. Have you seen how long my reviews are??? I don't do that on purpose.

2011-03-03 08:42:00 Author: Devious_Oatmeal Posts: 1799

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#1: One person's opinion is not the truth. A star rating system focuses more on the majority's opinion. This rating system is too black and white. An option in between yay and boo would be nice. So all you need is visual bar showing you procentige between to be satisfied? it won't change rates at any bit and i bet current systems use /dislike/like retio

2011-03-03 11:39:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I've found most of the boos on my new level are from people who didn't finish. So, I can only assume 1 of 3 things. 1. They found the level too hard and quit - and booed it cause they weren't good enough to complete it. 2. They started it - didn't give the level a chance and just left figuring it wasn't "their kind of level" - which gets a boo I guess. 3. They are just a hater. I would list "level glitched and they couldn't continue" - but unless they leave feedback, no one would know. The only Boo that I was annoyed with was when I would see people from LBPC give a boo with no explanation - and no feedback in my showcase. Other than that, the majority are yays, and almost every review has been very postitive. So, I think it's best to look at your overall review set and hearts. Read the reviews and comments. I think it will be pretty clear if you have a failure on your hands. Look at ratio's, not individual yays or boos.

2011-03-05 16:26:00 Author: CYMBOL Posts: 1230

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I yay a level if I had fun or if it's something like a font level and it has fonts I like or whatever. Basically, if it does a good job fulfilling the purpose it sets out to, whether it be fun or utilitarian, or if it's just technically and/or visually impressive enough, it gets a yay. If I don't have fun, it gets a boo. I give more boos than yays because most levels just aren't finished, are glitchy (obviously minor glitches will slip through: I'm talking about major game-breaking glitches that should have been easy to catch and fix), or they're just not that much fun to play. I don't feel the need to explain or justify my ratings, nor would I want to take the time to do so for every level I play. As for feedback, I typically only write a review or comment if it seemed like the creator was really trying, the level has potential, and I have advice that I think might be useful, or if the level was just so amazing that I can't refrain from saying something like "THAT WAS THE BEST LEVEL EVER!!" When I leave criticism, I always try to say a few positive things too, mostly as a way of trying to get the creator to actually read and consider my advice, since so many people would just dismiss anything that isn't positive. If I just didn't have fun or whatever, I don't feel the need to say so in a comment: booing the level should convey that. The thing that I don't like is when people take the time to write "Stupid level" or "This level sucks" without an explanation. A boo would have said that just fine, but instead you took the time to write without actually saying anything? And then the thing I really don't like is when they write "try my levels" in my comment section. As for the jealousy thing that many people have said, I have no doubt that some of the boos come from jealous people, but it's hardly an all encompassing thing. It's more likely that they just didn't like your level all that much for whatever reason.

2011-03-06 09:11:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I get sick of getting downrates that are just like "unhappy face!" and that's it. I get mostly positive reviews on my levels, but it seems that I always get unexplained downrates. I even got a "cool level be my friend please" downrate. I don't get it. Is it sour grapes, or just rating trolls, or what? IMHO you should always justify a downrate. They are jealous, lots of people BOO'd my level because it saved LBP and they got banned... Or they find that you don't H4H... Or they can't make a level as good as the one they played; somebody said that before... Or they are claiming that what you made is theirs! I was going to throw him into a place with bombs and sharks! So they get hurt by their own creations!

2011-03-06 09:42:00 Author: Unknown User

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