Archive: 7 posts

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I know some people hate sled rides. I think they are cool if used in a controlled environment that's relevant to the plot. I don't think they are bad in and of themselves, as long as they do the job reliably and consistently. Anyway, enough side rant. TLDR: I'm trying to build a sled ride that goes upside down and crosses over itself but am having a lot of trouble with the consistency of the ride. Please help! I've made a blue-print, using a large grid, 9x9 square and then cut out in the middle a 3x3 centre. It can be either straight in the middle, or curved to 90 degrees like one quarter of a circle, or in a cross shape so that the track can loop back on itself. The idea is that a sled will pass through the middle, turn 90 degrees (and keep turning if mutliple corners are put in) and have the option of crossing itself as necessary. The background material is sponge which matches the level design, but I have given it a thin 1x1 small grid layer of glass to improve slidding. This could be changed or removed if recommended. Maybe rubber works better, other people might be able to suggest something. The glass becomes part of the background, so the track is still 3x3 large grid size. So I have this amazing track worked out. When it works, it's amazing. It really fits well with what I'm trying to do with the story and it's just plain fun and cool to boot. But there is a problem... and that's the sled. I can't seem to build a consistent or reliable sled. Sometimes a design will work, sometimes it won't. I've tried multiple different sizes... too big and it can get stuck in a turn. Too small and it can sometimes flip itself out. I'm trying to use rockets for a good sense of speed, but getting the boost levels correct is fiddly - it needs enough to pull itself up from a dead start without overwhelming itself. That's not how it starts, by the way, but it can be how it ends up. Maybe motors might be a better option, but then there is the issue of when the vechicle flips for upside down parts... to do a complete loop there has to be a point where up is down and vice versa in relation to the sack boy inside, and then gravity can make things difficult. I've considered making a largish track object that almost fits, but have not actually built a prototype to try it out. I've tried different things for the wheels. Golf balls seem to work the best, but they don't work very well story wise. It won't be impossible to use them from a story point of view - but it is a bit wierd. I can't seem to replicate their material properties correctly though, so they seem the best bet. :o Then there is the front and top of the sled. How it hits a 90 degree circle turn or passes through a cross T intersection seems to vary depending on it's shape. It's seems having a rounded-ish base using pregrenated objects like golfballs works for that, and then slanting the front with a right angle triangle kind of works - but it sometimes does not interact well with the pregenerated angles the large circles make. Finally, there are weighting issues. I find a heavy but slidding material like wood kind of works for a roof, with lighter stuff like cardboard or sponge for the bottom. But weight distribution between the front and back seems fiddly. You can kind of force sack boy to one point with a grabbable switch, but it still seems to shift a little in repeat experiments. So... do people have ideas, suggestions or comments on how to make things work consistently? I know this is a long read, but advice on material, propellants and angles and sizes would be greatly appreciated. TLDR: I'm trying to build a sled ride that goes upside down and crosses over itself but am having a lot of trouble with the consistency of the ride. Please help!

2008-11-23 06:28:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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Try making the bottom out of glass. No wheels. Then cover the top in a thin layer of sponge, grab switch, and 1-2 rockets on back, low settings.

2008-11-23 07:06:00 Author: lionhart180 Posts: 200

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I seem to have a rough working version now. It's pretty similar to what I described in detail, it's just that it works most of the time. The trick is to remember to let go of the rocket thruster grab switch every now and then so it can adjust it's angle as it goes around corners or across T intersections. I'll have to include the idea of letting go - probably as an invisible magic mouth when you get in. It's just too long and impossible to walk, but when the ride works, it's very cool. You will all have to see the finished product - and hopefully it will work without too many hitches rather than getting stuck or disintergrating or other such bugs. I find glass as a base a bit... heavy. There are parts where it needs to jump straight over an edge, and too much weight, especially in the lower half, tends to make it fall slightly and hit the next edge unless the rockets are set to too high a setting. If the thrust is too strong, it's more likely to hit an object and destroy either parts of the track or the cart itself, which is not a good thing. As I mentioned, for some reason golf balls seem to work well. They are very light, have minimal corner curve points, for example like a circle enlarged enough you can see is actually made out of a lot of sharp edges which can get caught on stuff. They also slide well like glass. It's just a shame they are... well, golf balls. Using them does not always make sense story wise. I haven't stickered up the cart yet - I'm still trying to physically lay out the level and make sure everything works before I put in things like sound and graphical flourishes. I hope the level works well. As far as I can tell it seems to be an interesting and fun idea that is testing well with the people I am showing it too so far. On a side note again, it sure would be good to have some sort of magnetic surface that things could stick to or change polarity on. That would make the whole execution a lot better and more consistent.

2008-11-24 12:04:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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Use a magnetic switch attached to the rockets and place magnetic keys of the same color along the areas of the track where you want to rockets to fire. Then, the rockets will automatically shut off in the places where you don't want them. Also, scroll waaaay down the list of items in the tools bag, and there are a good selection of wheels you can use, I think they are in the "Vehicles" category. You pick them up in the story mode.

2008-11-24 17:20:00 Author: Risen Posts: 251

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I seem to have a rough working version now. It's pretty similar to what I described in detail, it's just that it works most of the time. The trick is to remember to let go of the rocket thruster grab switch every now and then so it can adjust it's angle as it goes around corners or across T intersections. I'll have to include the idea of letting go - probably as an invisible magic mouth when you get in. It's just too long and impossible to walk, but when the ride works, it's very cool. You will all have to see the finished product - and hopefully it will work without too many hitches rather than getting stuck or disintergrating or other such bugs. I find glass as a base a bit... heavy. There are parts where it needs to jump straight over an edge, and too much weight, especially in the lower half, tends to make it fall slightly and hit the next edge unless the rockets are set to too high a setting. If the thrust is too strong, it's more likely to hit an object and destroy either parts of the track or the cart itself, which is not a good thing. As I mentioned, for some reason golf balls seem to work well. They are very light, have minimal corner curve points, for example like a circle enlarged enough you can see is actually made out of a lot of sharp edges which can get caught on stuff. They also slide well like glass. It's just a shame they are... well, golf balls. Using them does not always make sense story wise. I haven't stickered up the cart yet - I'm still trying to physically lay out the level and make sure everything works before I put in things like sound and graphical flourishes. I hope the level works well. As far as I can tell it seems to be an interesting and fun idea that is testing well with the people I am showing it too so far. On a side note again, it sure would be good to have some sort of magnetic surface that things could stick to or change polarity on. That would make the whole execution a lot better and more consistent. The trick is to make it uber thin. Like, use the smallest grid, and shrink your sqaure as small as possible, thats how thick the glas shsould be. Make the strip of sponge 2 thick., and make the thing, 7-9 long.

2008-11-25 01:03:00 Author: lionhart180 Posts: 200

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The trick is to make it uber thin. Like, use the smallest grid, and shrink your sqaure as small as possible, thats how thick the glas shsould be. Make the strip of sponge 2 thick., and make the thing, 7-9 long. make sure to use the circle shape when smearing though because a square will get cought on stuff, oh and if you want to make a sled put make sure you can grab it, and if you are going to use wheels use normal bolts. either way you should use rockets not only to push it forward but to have it push down on what ever surface it is on so it can slide on any surface upside down or not, just try and not make it wimpy. If you use wheels make them rubber, and make them really large, and hide the rockets behind the wheels hope this helps Cheers!

2008-11-25 04:42:00 Author: RAINFIRE Posts: 1101

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The trick is to make it uber thin. Like, use the smallest grid, and shrink your sqaure as small as possible, thats how thick the glas shsould be. Make the strip of sponge 2 thick., and make the thing, 7-9 long. That sounds like pretty much what I went with. Too long and it gets stuck when it turns sometimes. Too short and it can sometimes flip out if it bounces off an edge wrong. The whole height for the track is about 9 small grid, so I think the whole vechicle was about 8 grid. I'd have to check when I load it up. I think what I ended up actually doing was taking a cart that worked sometimes and shrinking it ever so slightly to make it work even more consistently. I made so many varients to try and get some working prototypes, with many different weightings, sizes, boost levels and materials. It still does not work all the time, but at least it works some of the time. Considering that I've put... maybe 4 days of work into this one component I think that's good enough. As for the idea of the magnetic switches to fire the rockets at the right time... well, I find that for some of the larger curves it needs to be turned off at certain points for a certain amount of time so that gravity and weight distribution will make it change it's angle. I don't think such fine on the fly adjustments can really be done with magnetic switches. It's easier to just let the sackboy pilot let go and grab on to fire or not fire as required. Finally, about using a second rocket to keep it on the "floor", including when it's upside down... When the sled crosses a T intersection, you don't want too much downward force. If there is too much, then it will hit the edge of the other side of the jump rather than fly over. This means that the cart is no longer going where you want it to go, or at least not in the direction that the player would logically think it would, at least at the start. I found that using a light weight cart - which means not using glass, which is heavier than it looks, and using the angles and weight distribution of the front and top allowed it to change direction well enough in corners. Using a light weight cart with a decent level of boost and a long enough passage to accelerate would allow it to leap over edges without hitches without the need for a top rocket. There is a point where it does not fly over one intersection, but then it just leads to the end of the track which is fine. The player should be disorientated enough by then to not really notice. You could I imagine include the magnetic switch idea to make it fire only on the top rocket when it's going upside down, but I found that if you have a rocket sticking out it can sometimes catch and break on wilder turns. You can partially internalise it I imagine using a cut out on the roof, but considering already the small size of the vehicle it's going to be a very small fit, and the physical size of a rocket does seem to influence the amount of actual boost it gives. This would also lead to the problem of how it comes out of extended upside down sections. At the moment it just slides along and you can stop the rocket to change the direction. Keeping it stuck on the roof would be a big mess to work out physics wise from what I see. I just found that the weighting and materials that I use right now seem to work without the use of a counterforce top rocket. The amount of boost that I was using when I was trying a top rocket was so small that the force was either negligible or too much, causing it to clip edges on jumps. Maybe I can copy this section of the level and publish it as a mini game, so you can see what I've been working on. The complexity of this one part burnt me out a bit, but I can just copy it, tidy it up and release just this one part of the level so you can see what I mean. It might take a while longer for the full level itself to appear. I only really have two major sections left, one of which is divided into 3 smaller parts. I just have not been pushing myself so hard to finish as this part has been so complex.

2008-11-25 07:44:00 Author: Elbee23 Posts: 1280

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