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PS3 Hackers Can Now Unban Themselves According to GI

Archive: 59 posts

Game Over for Sony in this battle...

link (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/02/19/ps3-hackers-can-now-unban-themselves.aspx)



From Gameinformer.com

Sony and the PS3 hacking community have been engaged in a tug-of-war in recent months, ever since root access to the PlayStation 3 was gained. In addition to opening the door for unauthorized indie development on the console, that breakthrough allowed users to play pirated games and cheat online. Sony responded by threatening to ban players (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/02/16/psn-bans.aspx) found to have modded their system in this way, which the company says amounts to a breach in the terms of use agreement. It appears as though that punishment is being bypassed as well, with users claiming to have found a way to circumvent and reverse such bans.

According to Destructoid (http://www.destructoid.com/psn-hack-lets-users-unban-themselves-ban-others-194361.phtml), hackers can now apparently unban themselves. Even more disturbing, those users can even ban other players, provided they have access to the victim's console ID. As one hacker said last month (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/01/06/ps3-hack.aspx), "The complete console is compromised – there is no way back."

And if you don't know this by now, don't give anyone access to your PS3's console ID. Seriously.		2011-02-20 18:31:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Go hackers!

Cue raging responses in five, four, three, two...		2011-02-20 18:44:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

one?

normally, i would be on the hackers sides *stares at his pandora battery*, but i'm not sure... banning others? not all hackers have that much self control... you should know that most of all, out of anyone here.		2011-02-20 18:46:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Well, if it ever comes to them being able to ban anyone they see on Call of Duty or whatever hax0rs like to play, we could always hack to unban ourselves, right?

...Right? 		2011-02-20 18:52:00

Author:
KlawwTheClown
Posts: 1106

Go hackers!

Cue raging responses in five, four, three, two...

You're not even trolling anymore. You're just being silly. And it would be nicer if you could say the reasons why you think hackers are good instead of just saying "Go hackers!".

------

SONY really needs to fix this, I wouldn't want to get banned by some random player that doesn't have a life. IDC about the unbanning part, but banning other players is just meh.		2011-02-20 18:57:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

My God... the PS3's security sucks more than the XBox360 now. :O2011-02-20 19:00:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

@ Alec, he cheers them on, because he IS one, he even stated he pirated in an old psp-side thread... as far as i know, BBB doesn't pirate anymore, but he still supports homebrew... and again, i'm a bit hax0r myself, but only really for my non-GO psp...2011-02-20 19:02:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Well I'm sure these hackers will recieve a well intentioned call in the middle of the night by one of Sonys "Roaming Ylod squads"2011-02-20 19:04:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Go hackers!

Cue raging responses in five, four, three, two...


Well not being able to enjoy the $400 console with the $60 games and $40 controllers and the $?? extra accessories (paid for using money which was earned through labor) isn't exactly a fun experience, now is it?		2011-02-20 19:05:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046

no, they'll probably just change the root code in any new ps3... they can't change the old ones, but they can prevent it from becoming a reason to buy a new ps3

@ Astrosimi




@ Alec, he cheers them on, because he IS one, he even stated he pirated in an old psp-side thread... as far as i know, BBB doesn't pirate anymore, but he still supports homebrew... and again, i'm a bit hax0r myself, but only really for my non-GO psp...		2011-02-20 19:06:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

no, they'll probably jus change the root ccode in any new ps3... they can't change the old ones, but they can prevent it from becoming a reason to buy a new ps3

This makes no sense.

You can't just "change" a root code like switching off a light, and even then whats to stop the hackers hacking that codea as well?		2011-02-20 19:08:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

I normally don't mind hacking as long as it is strictly for educational purposes (There's a lot you can learn from reverse engineering). But regardless, this kind of stuff should remain hidden from the public. It completely undermines the rightful owners of the intellectual property that is being compromised and goes against their wishes to contain piracy and such. By opening the door to the world, you essentially threaten the stable security that PS3 owners enjoy and should be entitled to. PS3 owners should have the security of knowing that the games they pay for will not be acquired cost free by other undeserving individuals. They should have the security of knowing that online gameplay will not be overrun by hackers therefore ruining their online gaming experience. Game developers should have the security of knowing that they will be fairly compensated for the games they make and should not risk loss of royalties due to rampant piracy. It is in Sony's best interest to keep these kinds of hacks away from the general public for everyone's benefit. Many people and entities will be at risk if these rights continue to be undermined and piracy is allowed to advance.

By allowing hacks like this to exist, we are basically establishing a classless society in which anyone can do as they please regardless of morality or intellectual rights.
Now, of course, I do not agree with some of the remedies that Sony has implemented to guard against these hacks. (namely the alt. OS removal) I really hope there are better alternatives than having to omit features that were once part of the main system's functionality but it just goes to show how even the possibility of piracy can be so damaging for everyone that Sony must go to great lengths to prevent it while it is still at a developing stage.

Oh, BTW, ignore my sig...		2011-02-20 19:10:00

Author:
Enlong3
Posts: 357

@ Kernelm sorry, noob moment... but yeah. Sony is screwed.

EDIT- this thread is growing fast... yeah. but what CAN sony do besides jail time?		2011-02-20 19:11:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

@ Kernelm sorry, noob moment... but yeah. Sony is screwed.

EDIT- this thread is growing fast... yeah. but what CAN sony do besides jail time?

Kill custom firmware users' ability to sign in. That's it. But with the security breached, this option is now mediocre in the hackers' eyes.		2011-02-20 19:25:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

and, of course, that will only work for about a day.2011-02-20 19:28:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

You're not even trolling anymore. You're just being silly. And it would be nicer if you could say the reasons why you think hackers are good instead of just saying "Go hackers!".

------

He got you to reply in an annoyed fashion, I think he did his job.

As for what I already said on facebook, Sony just needs to step up their game. If they're having kids/teens/whateverthehell hacking, they need to look at what Microsoft's doing, because none of this is happening to them so they must be doing SOMETHING right.		2011-02-20 19:29:00

Author:
Unknown User

hmm? that was you? didn't know...

anyways, as i said on facebook... rootkey = game over = no solution besides new hardware

...why does this always happen to SONY? <_>		2011-02-20 19:33:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

...why does this always happen to SONY? <_>

because Sony doesn't want to reach into their pockets and actually spend money.

While on the other hand Microsoft's like http://myfacewhen.com/images/60.png		2011-02-20 19:38:00

Author:
Unknown User

No, while I don't homebrew any consoles currently, I do pirate music all the time. I support hackers because I like free stuff.

As soon as I'm sure I won't be unable to connect to PSN, I'm going in. I'll tear my PS3 apart if it means I can both get free games AND earn trophies for them. 		2011-02-20 19:40:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

ok... don't we all like free stuff? but there is one problem, not saying you shouldn't pirate (though i do believe that...) but you need balance, you can't suck sony dry, or they will die... and all those games flooding in will stop.

ironically, its like an ecosystem...		2011-02-20 19:45:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

No, while I don't homebrew any consoles currently, I do pirate music all the time. I support hackers because I like free stuff.

Wow, corruptive and admitting illegal actions... and you're into politics?		2011-02-20 19:51:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

I know this story is circling around news sites but I actually at this point don't think its true.
I try to keep track of all the new hacks not because I have a hacked PS3 (I don't and really don't want one) But just because its interesting to look at.

While I have seen no mention from the hacking communities of being able to un-ban themselves or ban other people for that matter there is a new tool that allows people to keep access to there PSN games after having a banned account/ Console.

While I do expect there is an amount of truth to this rumor I will believe it when I see it.		2011-02-20 19:56:00

Author:
robotiod
Posts: 2662

It is important to take into consideration all the time, effort and money that goes into whatever you download through questionable means. If you benefit from someone else's work, you should at least have the decency to return the favor. Companies need money to sustain themselves and expand so that they can offer more and better products in the future.

The reason piracy is such a problem is because it creates an unfair advantage to the person who pirates versus the person who actually paid money for the product. Both parties benefit from the same product; however, only one fairly compensates the original source.		2011-02-20 20:02:00

Author:
Enlong3
Posts: 357

Probably a chain letter will confirm it.

Example:


Free [insert amount of money here] PSN Card!!! Just us send us your PS3's IP address and we'll add the fund to your wallet.

This message is being tracked by [insert Sony region].		2011-02-20 20:04:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

...and then by the time it has cycled a bit, sony will send out warnings that will be recieved way too late...2011-02-20 20:07:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

I know this story is circling around news sites but I actually at this point don't think its true.
I try to keep track of all the new hacks not because I have a hacked PS3 (I don't and really don't want one) But just because its interesting to look at.

While I have seen no mention from the hacking communities of being able to un-ban themselves or ban other people for that matter there is a new tool that allows people to keep access to there PSN games after having a banned account/ Console.

While I do expect there is an amount of truth to this rumor I will believe it when I see it.

you're correct there is currently no way someone who has been banned to un-ban himself
the news the op posted is total bs		2011-02-20 20:36:00

Author:
oliox
Posts: 6

My God... the PS3's security sucks more than the XBox360 now. :O


He got you to reply in an annoyed fashion, I think he did his job.

As for what I already said on facebook, Sony just needs to step up their game. If they're having kids/teens/whateverthehell hacking, they need to look at what Microsoft's doing, because none of this is happening to them so they must be doing SOMETHING right.

Well to be fair, SONY pretty much ASKED for hackers to go at it with the PS3 with its "The PS3 is unhackable" rearks, and the Linux removal thing, where it wasn't harming anyone, but nooo they just had to remove it because they feard hacking from it (ironically.), while Microsoft didn't really promote or ask for hacking at all, so hackers are obviously more focused on the PS3 than on a 360, not to mention I believe there's more you can do with a hacked PS3 than a 360.

You know?
This reminds me a lot to the titanic to a degree.
Captain: We're unsinkable!
(2hrs later)
Captain: We're sinking!

SONY CEO: PS3's unhackable!
(Couple of year later.)
SONY CEO: We've been completly and utterly hacked to the point of no return!

So, what did we learn?
Do not mock Nature or hackers, among other things, or you're gonna get it...		2011-02-20 20:55:00

Author:
Silverleon
Posts: 6707

^ Yeah, it's not as if Sony were forced to remove the other OS because of George Hotz and failOverflow's hacking activities in the first place...

Anyways, piracy and hacking are bad news people, it's a fact that game developers cannot afford to develop games for free. And game hacks like we see in MW will eventually drive players away until there's no one left to play with. So yeah, support piracy and hacking if you wanna see videogaming die, or maybe you'd prefer it if Micro$oft had a monopoly? Cause we all know how awesome that could be, sign me up a for years subscription to your overpriced shoddy online experience Mr. Gates, ooh and can I also have some expensive Kinect shovelware to go?...

Yeah, I'm ever so slightly annoyed...		2011-02-20 21:27:00

Author:
Snake Mountain
Posts: 84

ok... don't we all like free stuff? but there is one problem, not saying you shouldn't pirate (though i do believe that...) but you need balance, you can't suck sony dry, or they will die... and all those games flooding in will stop.

ironically, its like an ecosystem...

How is it Irony?

and How is it Like an Ecosystem?		2011-02-20 21:39:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

and How is it Like an Ecosystem?
You mess with a tiny bit of it = BAM!		2011-02-20 21:42:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

some people made a good point, so i went into the underground


Originally posted by un-mentioned website


As Sony finally begins to use their ban hammers against those who have jailbroke their consoles?, hackers have now found a way to Unban their PS3 console?s and ban legitimate users. Yes, you read that correctly. Hackers can now ban you in the process for doing absolutely nothing .
Website, PSX Scene (http://psx-scene.com/) is the first to report on user?s actually being able to do this.
From the forum post:

Hot off the press, and on the heels of Sony trying to find all the modded PS3 consoles, comes a funny story from SKFU?s Blog (an PS3 researcher/developer), along with a real way to UNBAN yourself, but watch out LEGIT PS3 owners, you could end up being banned by another user!
1) The bans are based on the users? account and console ID?s.
2) We can modify all traffic sent and received by the PlayStation3
What if some skiddies start to modify their sent traffic to appear as another user and use backups?
The PSN servers would recognize the TOS violation and check the online user database for known connections based on the ID?s. The user and his consoles who really owns the ID?s would be banned.
Even a simple Windows application which goes through ALL ID?s may be possible. 24 hours and any console worldwide would be banned.
This should definitely be double-checked by SONY.
Now with these tool?s out, legit PSN users can be banned by the simple use of a program. We will not post the link to the forum post since we do not condone any use of these hacking tools at all on our site. But with the ablilty for hackers to ban and unban PS3 Consoles, what more can PSN user?s endure and what can Sony do about this now?

http://psx-scene.com/forums/images/news/lol.png Picture Proof

We have been getting reports from multiple people that this is legitimate.


it has been updated though... so this may be a bluff or NOT still in the air, but if it is true... we'll hear more soon...


meanwhile, for those that support geohot (he just wants homebrew, no pirating or anything like that.) he is asking for help in the legal battle against what he calls "the giant enemy crabs"


Originally by PSX.com

geohot has finally decided, after discussing the matter with his lawyers, to open a donation link to support his growing Legal fees in the fight against Sony. He has also setup a new blog (http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/) with updates on the case.


PSX-SCENE has been at the forefront of the Playstation scene since 2002. We have never asked our users for donations. This case has legal implications (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/sony-v-hotz-sony-sends-dangerous-message) that reach FAR beyond the Playstation 3. We hope that everyone reading this will take the time to donate whatever they can. Even a small amount from one individual can help protect the freedom of many.



Quote:
On the subject of a Legal Defense Fund
Read groklaw (http://groklaw.net/), psx-scene (http://psx-scene.com/), the case docket (http://ia700401.us.archive.org/35/items/gov.uscourts.cand.235965/gov.uscourts.cand.235965.docket.html), and my new blog (http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/) for updates on the case

Media, I need your help. This is the first time I have ever asked. Please, if you support this cause, help me out and spread the word.
I want, by the time this goes to trial, to have Sony facing some of the hardest hitting lawyers in the business.
Together, we can help fix the system

Donations here are for legal defense ONLY
I checked with my lawyers before setting this up
If you have another substantial way to donate aside from money, let me know

tl;dr
Sony is lame, and is suing me for hacking MY OWN PS3. Help me own them in court

Sony are bullies
Sony doesn't care if what you did was legal, if they don't like it, they sue. Sony tried to sue a guy (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/01/10/28/005233/Sony-Uses-DMCA-To-Shut-Down-Aibo-Hack-Site) for getting his AIBO to do non Sony approved tricks, making it apparent that they don't really care about piracy, they care about control. In (Sony vs Bleem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!)), Bleem was the winner on all counts, but the high cost of a legal defense shut them down. Fortunately, that suit helped set precedent on the legality of emulators. I would hate to lose this case due to resource starvation, and with the support of the masses, I won't. Lets turn the bully back on itself. This case has the ability to set a huge precedent for consoles and all closed systems to come. The other two should be begging Sony to back off.

Sony sued the wrong guy
I am an advocate against mass piracy, do not distribute anyone's copyrighted work but my own, do not take crap lying down, and am even pro DRM in a sense. For example, I believe Apple has every right to lock down their iPhone in the factory as much as they want, but once it's paid for and mine, I have the right to unlock it, smash it, jailbreak it, look at it, and hack on it. Fortunately, the courts agree with me on this point.
My PS3 goal has been to provide users a legitimate path to homebrew, which by the standards of all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade) previous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark_Int'l_v._Static_Control_Components) cases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chamberlain_Group,_Inc._v._Skylink_Technologie s,_Inc.) (or, in (http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/Sony_v_Bleem.htm) reverse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connectix_Virtual_Game_Station)), is 100% legal. Sony does not even try to allege piracy or copyright infringement in this case, they allege I did things like play "super mario world, an unauthorized game" on MY PS3. And access MY PS3 in an unauthorized way. Who are they to authorize what I do with my taxed and paid for property?
fail0verflow's goal was even nobler than mine. They wanted to give you back a feature Sony illegally (http://forbrukerportalen.no/Artikler/2011/%20PlayStation_3_violates_the_Norwegian_Marketing_ Control_Act) stole, Linux on your PS3. It's shameful on Sony's part that they are being sued at all. If you have a problem with pirates, sue them, don't sue people who point out your shortcomings.

Why should I care about your personal legal troubles?
You shouldn't. For example, if I was taken to court for sex crimes in Sweden, I would never ask for donations. But this case isn't about me. Clearly I am not being sued because of something I have that Sony wants, I am being sued in order to send a message that Sony is not to be messed with. But if I(and all codefendants likewise) actually win this, we have the power to send a much stronger message back. That consumers have rights, and we aren't afraid to stand up for them.

Why should I trust you? I just saw you trying to rap battle Sony
My attempts at humor aside, I do take this whole matter very seriously. Again, it's not about me, I was on the verge of quitting this stuff last June, and I would hate to be the one who sets a reputation for hackers that all a company has to do is sue us and we back down. In fact, I want the opposite reputation set, that the more a company tries to abuse the legal system, the harder we rally back. I will be the first person in line on the launch date of the Xperia Play, and itching to get my hands on the Next GEOHOT Project.

Why did you wait until now to set this up?
I didn't want to be trigger happy, and thought the suit might go away quickly . Also, I had to consult with my lawyers about how to do this. It's been over a month, and it looks like this is going to be a drawn out case. I am in this for the long haul. I am very serious ethically when I take donations, for all iPhone work I only accepted after the fact, here after the fact is too late. Now I am pot committed so to say.

How much should I donate?
Put it this way, Sony has 5 lawyers, I have 2. I'd like to level the playing field, and really get some hard hitters in there. I have already racked up over 10k in legal bills; donate whatever you feel like. Leftover donations at the end of all this will be donated to the EFF (https://www.eff.org/).

What if I want to donate more than I feel comfortable sending through PayPal?
I'm excited! Email me, we'll figure it out.

Why doesn't the EFF fund this?
Ask them. They have offered to provide some legal help though, which is much appreciated.

Donate to help you, you're the reason I can't play Modern Warfare now
No, I'm not. Kakaroto explains this really well here (http://ps3mfw.com/?p=134). I have never played PS3 online ever. Frankly I'm amazed by the apparent ease with which these cheats were created, security 101, why is the security in the client anyway? I had no idea this would happen, and am in full support of the cheaters being permabanned from PSN.

I'm a poor college student, what can I do to help?
I feel you, don't worry. Spread the word. Let people know how you feel about what Sony is doing. Let Sony know how you feel about what Sony is doing.

What if SCEA tries to settle?
Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I'm also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted.

Why isn't SCEA trying to settle?
RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE RAGE?THEY POINTED OUT OUR SECURITY FLAWS?IM SO MADDDDDDDD?WAHHHHHH

Check out the new blog (http://geohotgotsued.blogspot.com/)

this... this is heating up!!!		2011-02-20 21:43:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

...in other news, we're screwed.2011-02-20 21:49:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

i read the geohot thing on the forum... and there are 34 pages of at least 10 people donating at least $5

5x10 = 50
50x34= $1,700

and that post was just added last night!!! plus, i'm pretty sure its on other sites as well.


... i wish i could donate to be honest, geohot doesn't support pirates, just homebrew and the right to mod...		2011-02-20 21:53:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

...in other news, we're screwed.

...in other OTHER news, Sony is even more screwed.		2011-02-20 21:54:00

Author:
TheZimInvader
Posts: 3149

Mr Hotz likes to talk about freedom quite a bit, shame he never considered how he was infringing on the rights and freedom of legitimate consumers when undertaking his hacking activities, but then, that's the problem with the world today, isn't it? People are too self absorbed and short sighted to even think about how their activities will affect others. All actions have consequences, maybe if we spent some time considering the consequences of our actions the world might be a better place...2011-02-20 21:56:00

Author:
Snake Mountain
Posts: 84

I'm scared that this will end up elevating to identity theft. At that point, any hacker that does this should be jailed. This is all Geohot's fault. If you want to hack so bad, get a dang computer for pete's sake. That's a hacker's paradise.2011-02-20 21:57:00

Author:
siberian_ninja15
Posts: 444

yes, but the consequences started because stupid people do stupid things. it was not his fault, and even if he didn't post the tools, others would have found out quickly.

in otherother news... skimming thru the posts 50-100 dollars donations shows up a bit often... this is cyber war.. time to take sides!

...and yah, i'm taking the side of the hackers, they DO have the right to mod.

@siberian_ninja15 its NOT his fault, he was trying to open the ps3 to homebrew... there are so many things a ps3 can do... he just wants to fulfill its potential. thats what ALL hackers want to do, even pirates.		2011-02-20 22:02:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

yes, but the consequences started because stupid people do stupid things. it was not his fault, and even if he didn't post the tools, others would have found out quickly.

in otherother news... skimming thru the posts 50-100 dollars donations shows up a bit often... this is cyber war.. time to take sides!

...and yah, i'm taking the side of the hackers, they DO have the right to mod.

@siberian_ninja15 its NOT his fault, he was trying to open the ps3 to homebrew... there are so many things a ps3 can do... he just wants to fulfill its potential. thats what ALL hackers want to do, even pirates.

I'm taking the side of...the "I don't care"ers! I mean seriously, as long as something stops the hackers or homebrewers or whatever from doing stupid things that affect other people's gaming experience, then that's fine by me.		2011-02-20 22:06:00

Author:
TheZimInvader
Posts: 3149

...and yah, i'm taking the side of the hackers, they DO have the right to mod.

Are you saying they have the right to steal other peoples work? Effectively destroying an industry, forcing company closures, putting people out of jobs, and causing economic chaos? Seriously? :eek:

And please, don't come back with that homebrew excuse nonsense, 99% of people will use such hacks for criminal activities, not homebrew or anything else quite so innocuous.		2011-02-20 22:10:00

Author:
Snake Mountain
Posts: 84

I would prefer that the "bad hackers" could get stopped without affecting the "good hackers". But, if a complete stop is required, so be it.2011-02-20 22:10:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

I support hacking. I really do. In fact, I hacked my old xbox and I love it. However, it has a limit. If your hacking infringes on other player's right to have fun, it should be stopped and you should be punished. There is nothing wrong in my eyes with modding your PS3 to play homebrew games. I say more power to you, homebrew game makers deserve to have their stuff played. Downloading free PS3 games is also illegal, but since I regularly download pirated music and movies I can't say anything bad about it. Hacking games to play online, though, is way too far. I can't stand players that run around with aim bots and instakill weapons and invincibility. That just sucks. Anyone banning other players? They should die. Really, Sony should hire a hit squad. I think that Sony should leave the players alone that just want to play homebrew games. If players are downloading PS3 games Sony should take whatever action they choose. However, if someone is hacking a good game on PSN and ruining the experience for other players, I really think Sony should write a program that would subtley download itself onto the offender's system while they were playing, then format their hard drive. Hell, maybe I'll write up something like that and send it to sony so they don't have to pay for someone to write it for them.2011-02-20 22:12:00

Author:
Unknown User

at least gdn and frog understand... -_-


Are you saying they have the right to steal other peoples work? Effectively destroying an industry, forcing company closures, putting people out of jobs, and causing economic chaos? Seriously? :eek:

And please, don't come back with that homebrew excuse nonsense, 99% of people will use such hacks for criminal activities, not homebrew or anything else quite so innocuous.

what? stealing other peoples work? no, i did not say that anywhere, i want the ability to mod a device ANY way i see fit, but still be punished if i steal something. once the world is that way, i will shut up. where did you hear modding a system to play homebrew is stealing anyways?		2011-02-20 22:14:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

at least gdn and frog understand... -_-



what? stealing other peoples work? no, i did not say that anywhere, i want the ability to mod a device ANY way i see fit, but still be punished if i steal something. once the world is that way, i will shut up. where did you hear modding a system to play homebrew is stealing anyways?

Like I said, modding mostly leads to one thing... piracy. There's no two ways about it. You just can't have one without the other. If you're an advocate of modding, then whether you like it or not, by proxy, you're also an advocate of piracy. Look, I understand, it sounds silly. But that's just how it is. Modding leads to piracy, it's impossible to separate the two. I'm not saying that you personally steal, or are engaged in criminal activities, but if you support modding, then you're pretty much encouraging others to do so.

Basically I'm just trying to point out that the effects can be far reaching, that your intentions, however innocent they may be, can affect others in unexpected ways. I just want people to think. I'm certainly not trying to attack any individual, or trying to cause offense. :o		2011-02-20 22:34:00

Author:
Snake Mountain
Posts: 84

I don't think supporting a modding / homebrew communities is supporting piracy. It is unfortunate that the two come hand in hand but the difference is 50% of the homebrew community are developing something good for the community. The rest are developing cheating tools or tools for piracy. The small hacking community are actually trying to help others though.

Lets look a geohot for just a moment, April last year sony removed the other OS feature. This was bad times for the PS3 linux comunity. Geohot brought back the feature in his own modified firmware and helped many people who were otherwise stuck. This was before any type of backup hacks were ever released.
The hacking community isn't all about piracy, when the first jailbreak came out they were all about backups which is a shame. geohots's jailbreak however doesn't even allow backups.

If I was to be honest sony are suing the wrong man, yes he knows more about the ps3 than pretty much anyone but he has been legal all the way through his stint at ps3 hacking.		2011-02-20 22:53:00

Author:
robotiod
Posts: 2662

I don't think supporting a modding / homebrew communities is supporting piracy. It is unfortunate that the two come hand in hand but the difference is 50% of the homebrew community are developing something good for the community. The rest are developing cheating tools or tools for piracy. The small hacking community are actually trying to help others though.

The bolded part speaks volumes. At least you understand the relationship between the two, that they are, inseparable.


Lets look a geohot for just a moment, April last year sony removed the other OS feature. This was bad times for the PS3 linux comunity. Geohot brought back the feature in his own modified firmware and helped many people who were otherwise stuck. This was before any type of backup hacks were ever released.
The hacking community isn't all about piracy, when the first jailbreak came out they were all about backups which is a shame. geohots's jailbreak however doesn't even allow backups.

If I was to be honest sony are suing the wrong man, yes he knows more about the ps3 than pretty much anyone but he has been legal all the way through his stint at ps3 hacking.

Ohh dear, please don't elevate someone like George Hotz as some kind of peoples hero, fighting "the man" on our behalf. Linux was removed because of his hacking activities. January 26th, 2010, "geohot" released a Linux kernal allowing users control over the PS3's VMM. Forcing Sony to release a firmware update removing the other OS in order to safeguard the system from the exploit. So if anything, people should be angry with Mr Hotz for the removal of the other OS, not Sony.

The hacking community isn't all about piracy?

Yeah, I'm sure the homebrew scene on the Nintendo DS and Wii is thriving right about now.

It just doesn't seem like people are willing to accept the fact the majority of people will never use such hacks for homebrew, it's a simple fact that the number one use by a huge majority is for piracy, and piracy alone. I'm just completely shocked that people are unwilling to accept that, even though they know it to be true. Anyone remember the once thriving PC gaming scene? Well, here's a cold, hard fact, a number of major PC developers were forced to abandon PC gaming completely because of piracy, and now, PC gaming is at it's lowest point in it's history.

I guess the basic question is, would you be happy with your homebrew if it meant developers like MM had to shut down?		2011-02-20 23:27:00

Author:
Snake Mountain
Posts: 84

Wow, corruptive and admitting illegal actions... and you're into politics?

Well, like I've said, I do listen to plenty of liberals. 		2011-02-20 23:40:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

People who take B3 seriously: The lolz.2011-02-20 23:53:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800

I dunno why people think I'm kidding. With the exception of the last post, I've been completely serious in everything I say. I do cheer on the hackers because I like the idea of a two-tier system of console users - those that are too scared/moral to hack their console, and those who do hack. It's a great way of separating the different classes of users, if you will. Let all those who can't hack better than me become my virtual playthings. :kz:

I'm hoping that was your meaning. If you're saying I shouldn't be taken seriously, because I have a different opinion, then... well, I dunno what to say. I'd hope people on here would be more mature than that.		2011-02-21 02:00:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

I dunno why people think I'm kidding. With the exception of the last post, I've been completely serious in everything I say. I do cheer on the hackers because I like the idea of a two-tier system of console users - those that are too scared/moral to hack their console, and those who do hack. It's a great way of separating the different classes of users, if you will.

Hackers are not users, they're abusers.		2011-02-21 02:03:00

Author:
Littlebigdude805
Posts: 1924

Like I said, modding mostly leads to one thing... piracy. There's no two ways about it. You just can't have one without the other. If you're an advocate of modding, then whether you like it or not, by proxy, you're also an advocate of piracy. Look, I understand, it sounds silly. But that's just how it is. Modding leads to piracy, it's impossible to separate the two. I'm not saying that you personally steal, or are engaged in criminal activities, but if you support modding, then you're pretty much encouraging others to do so.

Basically I'm just trying to point out that the effects can be far reaching, that your intentions, however innocent they may be, can affect others in unexpected ways. I just want people to think. I'm certainly not trying to attack any individual, or trying to cause offense. :o

I think that view is just a bit too general. I'm really not going to rage at anyone if they want to play F-Zero X on their PS3 or use Linux. You're really not doing anything wrong, mate.

But your rights stop where mine begin. If I cannot play a game I paid for then I will not stand by you. Do not talk to me about digital freedom when the Hacker elite are undermining us honest gamers.


... And now we have this guy talking about classes. In video games. Wow.

Refer to Brenmen's post.		2011-02-21 02:11:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046

People who take B3 seriously: The lolz.

Refer to Brenmen's post.

Well then, since you two have been kind enough to clear that up:

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss280/Blue-Bullet-Bill/1298078427215.jpg

I wish you good luck in your inability to tolerate other's opinions, may it take you places in life. 		2011-02-21 02:34:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

Calling me butthurt is a bit childish, but hey, if you want a well-written argument... you're not getting one.

Because you're obviously out for kicks and I love you too much to fight you <3		2011-02-21 02:37:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046

Wheres the love B3?

Oh, it's up there ^		2011-02-21 02:38:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800

I actually went through the minecraft thread (about 7 pages) to find this image.
http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/098/609/original/1295485631356-(n1296016314480).png?1297371867		2011-02-21 02:43:00

Author:
Unknown User

I dislike hackers. games and life has rules for a reason. we them need to form a safe and fun place in life
so everyone in general are able to enjoy, feel safe and have fun. people who want to ruin this for others should go to jail, end of story. *mew

PS: yes i am very much anti hack when it comes to PS3 and game-systems anyways.		2011-02-21 02:45:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

I actually went through the minecraft thread (about 7 pages) to find this image.
http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/098/609/original/1295485631356-(n1296016314480).png?1297371867

Admit it. You just thanked B3's post because of teh pony! :kz:

http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/100/893/original/Forever%20Alone.jpg?1298248193		2011-02-21 05:28:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

You mess with a tiny bit of it = BAM!

Thats not an Ecosystem, and Ecosystem is You mess with a Tiny bit of it, Nature bounces back and the balance is restored.

and this thread is travelling on the lock train..		2011-02-21 09:34:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Thats not an Ecosystem, and Ecosystem is You mess with a Tiny bit of it, Nature bounces back and the balance is restored.

and this thread is travelling on the lock train..

You do realize the Ecosystem has to go trhough some major changes and problems before "bouncing back," right?
Its not like if a species vital to the ecosystem were to go extinct, everything goes magically to normal.

Oh no, there's some major problems that happen.
I'm not even sure you can call it "bouncing back" more like having to adjust to the current situation.
Sacrifices are still made, and there is a great loss in between, so no, an ecosystem does not "just bounce back" if its messed with.		2011-02-21 09:48:00

Author:
Silverleon
Posts: 6707

You do realize the Ecosystem has to go trhough some major changes and problems before "bouncing back," right?
Its not like if a species vital to the ecosystem were to go extinct, everything goes magically to normal.

Oh no, there's some major problems that happen.
I'm not even sure you can call it "bouncing back" more like having to adjust to the current situation.
Sacrifices are still made, and there is a great loss in between, so no, an ecosystem does not "just bounce back" if its messed with.


I simplified it, If you remove the Apex Predator the Prey will expand untill another Organism Fills in the Apex role.
I do understand Ecology :hrmf:

and Ecosystems do Bounce back, Just look at the Chernobyll Observations of nature.

/end discussion		2011-02-21 09:51:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078


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