Archive: 20 posts

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I've got a bunch of tech & sackbot stuff (shuffling shoulder button weapon & item menus, thermal footprints, noise & speed detection for stealth etc) going on my moon for some all-out MGS, but can't decide between the top down model or the sidescrolling model before i actually build any kind of play areas and mission so far Top down pros: things like leaving behind footprints & seeing them with thermal vision comes into play wall hugging can be a very useful play mechanic any shooting, even with limited ammo, would probably make more sense in top down with 360 degrees of enemy positions use of stealth is more flexible and understandable enemy AI can be broader & more varied Top down cons: costume work is more or less pointless, since all you can see is Snake's head & same for enemies where seats have to be visible but hidden so octocamo changing or camo selecting would have only a gameplay presence & not a real visual presence small details like smoking a cigarette are nearly invisible, visually walking only, little to no platforming mechanics at all sidescrolling pros: totally visible punch to costume & character work same for camo changing can have more than stealth & action gameplay, ie: platforming, ceiling grabbing and layer changing for stealth grenade volleying will probably be really fun bosses will look better the game will blend better with it's own cut scenes small gadgets & details can be more visible and nicer looking when front face on the snake bot himself sidescrolling cons: gun action will probably be pretty weak and require some aim assist cursors, other than switching to a sniper rifle, or a free-moving 'binocular' view to preview the level bosses won't do as much or require much traditional MGS gameplay to beat enemy AI will be limited to left & right patrol and being chased probably won't happen switching between the two types in different parts of the level might be nice, but since I want to work in camoflauge, hopping in and out of different seats might not be very seamless & the top down bot would look funky when going from small head medium in sidescrolling to a big fat seat with a tiny head. unless I build some kind of crazy memory cache that knows what sackbot to emit as a replacement with it's selectors and sequencers in the last position of the previous bot... i don't know if I could track of every possible combination, since I've been encountering a bug where if I capture my shoulder button menu and try to emit it or place it as a new object, the grid movement stops working completely.

2011-02-18 19:10:00 Author: Unknown User

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I say sidescrolling.

2011-02-18 19:23:00 Author: ramboo99 Posts: 24

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My vote is top-down. That's essentially what metal gear started as anyway.

2011-02-18 19:31:00 Author: bloomchild Posts: 74

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I am not all that interested in Metal Gear anything, but of the two mode, I would say side scrolling. I strongly, strongly dislike top down anythng...

2011-02-18 19:36:00 Author: wizaerd Posts: 159

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If you want to keep that Metal Gear feel to it, I'd say stick with top down with an angle, so it's not entirely bird perspective.

2011-02-18 20:22:00 Author: Unknown User

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Top-down would be harder to give detail to, but it would give a better gameplay feel to your level.

2011-02-18 20:55:00 Author: LBP2_Tutorialist Posts: 225

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If you're going to do cinematics, go side-scrolling. If not, go top-down. I vote top-down. Also, for top-down, you could make some interesting platforming sections by letting snake (or whoever) hop up into closer layer for a moment. Could then hop up again into front. Also falling down just go back to back layer.

2011-02-18 21:39:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136

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Try a mixture of Top-Down gameplay, and Real-view Cutscene's (Eg: Show Boss' regular look in cutscene, then switch back to Top-Down for fight)

2011-02-18 21:45:00 Author: Nurolight Posts: 918

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Good ideas & thanks for the votes. I'd really have to practice my holo pixel art, but I might be able to come up with some good character frames reminiscent of the original 2 Metal Gear games (pre Solid), and actually work in laying down and crawling under things. There'll of course be a jump here and there and layer shifting to go up stairs or into the back of a track at some point. Just ironing out the basics first & trying to decide which path to take. Who knows, maybe it'll end up not being Metal Gear & just be a multiplayer friendly stealth mission with playable Snake, The Boss, Raiden & even Sam Fischer or the ninja from Tenchu etc that might be more fun. Thanks again.

2011-02-18 22:08:00 Author: Unknown User

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Top down would be realy cool, especially if you can work out a mini map for the top corner that shows the enemies live position and cone of view. If you could pull that off then you would be epic. Littlebig Peggles.

2011-02-18 22:17:00 Author: Unknown User

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3rd Person Over-the-shoulder view. 40+ weapons, full menu with a fully working ipod achievements, online multiplayer with 6 maps a cardboard box, octocamo, helicopter, gecko killing chainsaw bloodbath... in 3D... or Top down... whichever you prefer. I'd recommend side scroll if it wasn't as difficult to be as innovative as top down, but maybe you have the ability to make something side-scrolling innovative enough.

2011-02-18 23:15:00 Author: KQuinn94Z Posts: 1758

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Top down would be realy cool, especially if you can work out a mini map for the top corner that shows the enemies live position and cone of view. If you could pull that off then you would be epic. Littlebig Peggles. will do. the mini-map thing i thought out actually won't be hard to do. I just need a grid separated holo map and I can go from screen to screen ala the 80's Metal Gear, and holo blips that 'walk' a matching trail, with the whole holo grid being 'off' when not in the square portion that shows the current area you're in and turns that grid on. i wouldn't even need to make the dots simulate chasing since the radar screen goes offline and staticy in the game when you're spotted. i could basically put the same chips on the holo blips that are on their counterparts in the level, and adjust the speed & distance they move to a smaller ratio with a sequencer. it'd basically be build an atari duplicate of the level inside a small screen. the only problem is I can't seem to capture any grid systems I make and replace them as objects, so if it acts anything like the menu bug I have, i won't be able to build anything in a separate level and bring it over to the actual play area. 3rd Person Over-the-shoulder view. 40+ weapons, full menu with a fully working ipod achievements, online multiplayer with 6 maps a cardboard box, octocamo, helicopter, gecko killing chainsaw bloodbath... in 3D... or Top down... whichever you prefer. I'd recommend side scroll if it wasn't as difficult to be as innovative as top down, but maybe you have the ability to make something side-scrolling innovative enough. I actually like sidescrolling the best in my mind, I just really would like the stealth stuff that's possible in top down. it seemed to work ok in the MGS pack, so I'm sure I can have Snake dropping down off a platform to a lower area to evade guard alerts, or ceiling swinging past a couple as they converse. I can definitely still work in the footstep noise detection I have into walking in 2d. heh, if sackbots could just 'walk' in the top down perspective and not have to be in seats, I could do it 3rd person-ish, man just tilt it way down & back on local space setting. if i even finish this I'll expect you to post that as feedback. 'this is alright, i guess, but it would be cooler if you recreated MGS4 in it's entirety and made it full 3D'

2011-02-18 23:32:00 Author: Unknown User

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I like sidescrolling best. it's just always been my fave. while i like top-down. you just can't beat sidescrolling IMO. tho top-down is pretty fun on the pokemon games. i wish there was an option to make only the seat invisible on a DCS. it use to be able to but that was a bug though.

2011-02-18 23:37:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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Hey. Top-down worked for both the Legend of Zelda series and the Metal Gear series since they were 1st created. Besides, as much of a fan of 2D platforming games as I am, I'm personally more interested in seeing a top-down MGS level since we already have those 2D platforming levels that came with the MGS Level Pack for LBP1.

2011-02-19 21:21:00 Author: Shadow Wolf TJC Posts: 72

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Top-down is how the games have always been up until MGS4. Some of the bosses like Raven are made for top-down, but others like the M1 tank battle and the inevitable face off with Metal Gear might not work so well from a top-down perspective.

2011-02-19 21:37:00 Author: Ayneh Posts: 2454

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I vote topdown.

2011-02-20 02:13:00 Author: Ignition246 Posts: 156

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Top down for sure its the best

2011-02-20 04:54:00 Author: tuyyui Posts: 175

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Despite all the new tools, LBP2 is still best suited for side-scrolling levels, and IMHO none of the side-scrolling levels that came from the MGS pack fully implement the essence of Metal Gear games: stealth. So I plan to do a side-scrolling Metal Gear level, and therefore I vote you make it top-down, to spare myself a competitor. By the way, have you got a solution for calculating line-of-sight? I've got a few concepts, but they're hacks, really.

2011-02-21 16:53:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Line of sight should be easy to implement by creating invisible hologram, stickied to the enemy, and make it react to certain situations

2011-02-21 17:48:00 Author: Unknown User

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As a metal gear fan...why not both? You could divide it by sections, and use the mini map different according to section (cause it will be complicated to make one mini map for the whole level). You could use both, and true Top down wont have much platforming, but Metal Gear Solid was never platforming you know what I mean? A true metal gear fan will still love it no matter what way it is though. So Good luck on this man sounds really promising. My vote would be top down, like the originals on nes, Playstation one was basicly same top down only had different touches. But like I said, both would work better, remember the scene from the tower in Playstation, where you fought Liquid in the Hind D, that section was a llittle 2D style kinda. But idk if your making a remake or re-creating original.

2011-02-21 18:11:00 Author: Bloo_boy Posts: 1019

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