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Wisconsin

Archive: 35 posts

Currently in Wisconsin, something a bit crazy is happening.
Wisconsin's Governor Scott Walker is planning to eliminate 50 years of collective bargaining rights for public employees (that is, state employees' bargaining rights for wages, pensions, and other benefits) in a bill, supposedly because the state is facing a huge budget crisis and the steps are necessary to keep the state afloat. (Despite that being an enormous lie (http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/editorial/article_61064e9a-27b0-5f28-b6d1-a57c8b2aaaf6.html))

What almost everyone else (including the NFL Green Bay Packers) thinks is that it's a fast tracked attempt to take a shot at Unions and state workers. Since the bill would also allow state authorities to fire workers who "participate in an organized action to stop or slow work" or who " are absent for three days without the approval of the employer." Which tends to happen when you do something, like say, go on Strike.

Now while this legislation would usually go up for a debate in a normal "democracy" way here in America, that state Senate is instead composed of 19 Republicans and 14 Democrats. So the proposal made by the (Republican) Governor was agreed on by the Republican majority in the state Senate, and would immediately pass, without debate, today.

So for the past couple of days 25,000 people (that's 25 Thousand) have flooded the Wisconsin capitol and many have set up camp there. All in protest to this legislation. Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCsG4g0dzJo&feature=player_embedded

Today was the day it was going to pass, even with all those protesters, if it were not for one thing...
All 14 Democratic state Senators.. walked out. And not just walked out of the town, but the entire state. Some are currently, as by a report from a local Wisconsin ABC affiliate, in an Illinois motel (http://www.wisn.com/news/26896913/detail.html). While the rest are simply.. gone. This, because of how Senate rules work, prevents any vote from passing in Wisconsin. The Governor has issued the call for police to round up the truant Senators. (It should be mentioned police are one of the very few exemptions to this law relating to public workers.) Which is allowed under state laws.
Some call what the Democrats did smart, while others call it childish. Whatever it is, it's a little crazy. So thought I'd post a thread about it here on LBPC, see what everyone else thinks.		2011-02-17 23:17:00

Author:
KoingWolf
Posts: 386

NCAA team - Wisconsin Badgers.

My nickname at college - 'Badger' (don't ask, I have no idea :S) I also love college football.

Therefore, I approve of Wisconsin. Didn't read the thread though.		2011-02-18 00:01:00

Author:
Unknown User

Ya, I live here and it's a mess.... don't get me started on our current petty dictator.... :/2011-02-18 00:35:00

Author:
Morgana25
Posts: 5983

Odd... I had never heard of anything of the sort.

Gotta love that the Democrats all just walked out though XD Yay for not just doing whatever. Or something.

... Though I am kinda shocked that only 33 people are in the Senate... though I guess I shouldn't be, since it is Wisconsin... how many politicians do they need there I guess XD

Still... uh... from what I saw... go civil disobedience? XD		2011-02-18 00:51:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Hahahahahahaha, silly Democrats, ragequitting is for games, not jobs. Seriously, though, this is imbecilic. They should accept that the plan can't be stopped and work on repealing it in the future. +1 for Walker, he is taking a shot a unions - and I love it.2011-02-18 00:53:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

Hahahahahahaha, silly Democrats, ragequitting is for games, not jobs. Seriously, though, this is imbecilic. They should accept that the plan can't be stopped and work on repealing it in the future. +1 for Walker, he is taking a shot a unions - and I love it.

Silly Conservative, freedom lost is for everyone.



(Except the police apparently)


This whole Wisconsin sit-in might be part 1 of the second American Revolution. Now we just need other states to stick up for their rights then maybe one day we'll be able to take our country back from capital hill, the conservative right-wing prudes and the other right-wing that pretends to be left that we call 'Democrats'.		2011-02-18 01:59:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800

Hahahahahahaha, silly Democrats, ragequitting is for games, not jobs. Seriously, though, this is imbecilic. They should accept that the plan can't be stopped and work on repealing it in the future. +1 for Walker, he is taking a shot a unions - and I love it.

Waaait.. don't conservatives a'splode when someone gets their democracy trampled on? Like when a one party state just rams through legislation? Or does that only count when it's something like, enforcing abortion rights or allowing gays to marry?

Also yeah! A pox on those unions and their.. fair rights.


...

This whole Wisconsin sit-in might be part 1 of the second American Revolution...

A revolution caused by it's own idiocracy. I feel bad for the people who are getting screwed now, but this is what it takes in order for people to learn not to vote based on campaign slogans.		2011-02-18 03:22:00

Author:
KoingWolf
Posts: 386

Disregard B3, trolls gonna troll.

While I don't think this will go as far as an American Revolution, hell, I'm pleased with what's going on here. I despise when politicians base votes solely on party allegiances (what I believe to be the main cause of the decline of American and Global politics), so I am very pleased with Wisconsinites for that camp out, and I applaud the Demoes for sticking up their collective middle finger. If they can all avoid the police (as N.W.A. wisely proclaimed in harsher tones) then they could get out of state. Then Governor Moron would need Federal assistance. And there would be a lower chance of him getting it.

Someone tell those Superbowl champs to stand up for the unions! That would be the ultimate strike against this legislation.		2011-02-18 03:33:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046

Waaait.. don't conservatives a'splode when someone gets their democracy trampled on?

lmao, no, they do the trampling.		2011-02-18 04:55:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800

don't get me started on our current petty dictator.... :/
He was voted in fair and square.

It's funny though isn't? When places like Egypt or Tunisia protest - we say "What heroes those protestors are! holding their government to account!" - but whenever there is protests in a "democratic" country - the protestors are portrayed as a nuisance and an annoyance. 		2011-02-18 07:03:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Nah, not trolling, these are my honest views. In related news, >mfw everyone in this thread thinks freedom is being lost because spoiled union bosses can't start mass temper tantrums anymore.

By the way, does this affect teachers? Because if so, added +1 for the government... the more teachers unions are weakened, the less old, teach-out-of-the-book-so-no-one-learns-anything teachers I'll have to deal with when I go into the work field. Less teachers being forced on schools by unions = more jobs for me!

@Koing, thing is, this is democracy... or it was before the Dems ragequit politics. Wisconsin is going about this (great) change in a completely legal way. If the Democrats were to rise in political power again, they could repeal this. That's just the way politics work.		2011-02-18 13:23:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

Then what, exactly, is your democratic right to protest for then?

Ticking a box on a bit of paper once every 4 or 5 years doesn't absolve you of responsibility for how things are run. As often, the people you voted in go against what they promised when trying to secure your vote.

Governments around the world should realise that all it takes is a mass, sustained public outcry - and your time in office is over.
THAT is democracy in action - as opposed to the stale, filibustering tactics of the usual "democratic" process.		2011-02-18 14:42:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Nah, not trolling, these are my honest views. In related news, >mfw everyone in this thread thinks freedom is being lost because spoiled union bosses can't start mass temper tantrums anymore.

By the way, does this affect teachers? Because if so, added +1 for the government... the more teachers unions are weakened, the less old, teach-out-of-the-book-so-no-one-learns-anything teachers I'll have to deal with when I go into the work field. Less teachers being forced on schools by unions = more jobs for me!

@Koing, thing is, this is democracy... or it was before the Dems ragequit politics. Wisconsin is going about this (great) change in a completely legal way. If the Democrats were to rise in political power again, they could repeal this. That's just the way politics work.

lol, someone slept through Economics in highschool.		2011-02-18 17:44:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800

By the way, does this affect teachers? Because if so, added +1 for the government... the more teachers unions are weakened, the less old, teach-out-of-the-book-so-no-one-learns-anything teachers I'll have to deal with when I go into the work field. Less teachers being forced on schools by unions = more jobs for me!


If you're not trolling then you're incredibly close-minded. Teacher's unions are practically the only things that make sure that the teachers who are honest and hard-working don't get screwed over by the morons up top. And like Macme said - Do we not have the right to assembly? The right to petition? Go read the constitution before you go spewing off your ignorant bile.		2011-02-18 17:51:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046

I'd appreciate not being told my political views are ignorant bile. Seems childish in my book.

No, teachers unions have, at least in recent years, kept bad teachers in schools - take a look at New York's former rubber rooms, for instance. Teachers who had done disgusting things like sending students lewd messages were kept off-limits by overgrown union rule, and so they were paid to not work. Tax dollars being put to good use methinks. Nope, I guarantee I'll enjoy my future job a lot more if these unions are taken down a notch.

I want to make one thing clear: I don't believe rights are being lost if public sector employees can't strike. These protests lead to union bosses pocketing more money, teachers gaining nothing, and students losing, hard. Imo, this ought to be part of the deal of you working for the government, that your services are too important to the country for you to strike. Again, future teacher here.

@Brem
I haven't taken high school economics, it's a Junior class, though I plan on taking a few good courses, assuming here in TN we have some intelligent teachers. With people like... well, you giving opinions on economics, I figured I ought to educate myself, and with the internet at my fingertips, I have. Neat group of libertarian Tumblrs have been a huge help in finding good sources without bias.

EDIT: Something related, because we are talking about fixing schools after all.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgtsjuB0Fw1qa1yk6o1_500.jpg		2011-02-18 18:59:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

I....

The problem isn't those "dirty unions." It's simply a matter of things like tenure. Tenure is what keeps bad teachers in school, not unions. It locks them into positions worse than simple seniority. It creates an impossible, tangled web of paperwork and processes in order to actually fire someone that achieves it. Granted, unions would like to keep tenure in place, but they actually do now acknowledge it and willingly back down on their stance against reforming tenure.
If you look even here to New Jersey of all places, it's being reformed in a sensible way, replaced with a system of tenure that actually makes sense and keeps teachers competitive and active with their abilities. But that's the key word so many conservatives seem to miss. "Sensible."

Instead of sitting and thinking ways to actually change things for the better, most of the time they just dump it over the cliff entirely. So instead of doing reasonable things like making tenure harder to earn and make it so where you have to continue to be score well in order to keep it, we have what's happening now in Wisconsin, where they decide to end it and all other labor agreements totally. No replacements and no attempts to fix it. That makes no sense, and I'd like an answer on how you can support such a scared approach to both debating and working?
This all really is no different than the health care debate. Repeal it. Instead of fix it. And list a bunch of falsehoods and misinformation as to why it should be. Why? Why can't we get even a plan?

Then you say you don't believe their rights are being lost, but wait, why is it that public sector employees are less human than someone working at Wal-Mart? And it's not just teachers in the protests man, regardless of what Faux News likes to pump out. Sorry to pop a conservative bubble, but the days of some union boss busting the door of a corporation or the state are gone, because they never existed. Don't you ever wonder why is it that someone getting paid 45K a year and wants to protect themselves, gets vilified by someone making multiple times that a year?

When it comes to unions in general, if you're actually working, you should be thanking them for making things like the minimum wage, weekends, the 40Hr work week, vacations, and overtime all possible. They were hard fought because, guess what? The state and corporations don't do things like that out of any kindness in their hearts. It's laws that force them to do that, laws that were created thanks to unions, and Wisconsin now wants to toss out completely, along with the ability to ever try to fight back to get them. Oh, and you can also add child labor and even equal employment rights to both race and gender under that banner of "what have unions done for me?"
Sorry, but those oh so evil groups are needed, and you can just look no further than Bush and Wall Street to see what happens when you deregulate and let everyone run themselves without oversight.

I don't even understand how you can think in that way in general and still plan to be a teacher, because while you don't need a union in order to be one, you are painfully misinformed in just how everything works. Especially in regards to labor. Then you say you use "the internet" to educate yourself.. uhh, sorry to, but that isn't such a great source. And any teacher that lists "the internet" as their source of education, I'd be pulling my kids from immediately. The falsehoods massively outweigh the truths you can find. Books and school are where you need to educate yourself, not the hilariously criss-crossed blogs of libertarians.

As for your comic, it's hilarious! (even with slight racial undertones) If.. you were talking about Bush and Clinton, considering Obama has only been trying to patch the bad they both have done this entire time. But I guess that's almost every president I suppose.. just fixing the mistakes of the one before, we are just getting to a point that we need massive simplification and fixes to our system, before we either collapse or, more reasonably, start having more citizens fight back against the ridiculousness of our political system at it's worst.

As always, even to you BBB, I don't mean any of that as an attack or personal fighting, just how debates are and I apologize for and readily will edit anything you find offense or in some way bashing you. <3 Ya.

Now, I'd like to add this update:
One of the Democrats running decided to update her facebook status in the most satisfying, trollful way possible.
It just reads "brb" (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=199381220073703&id=179247678753724)
Go Lena Taylor!		2011-02-19 14:57:00

Author:
KoingWolf
Posts: 386

It's a common tactic of the right-wing press, to vilify Union action in any form as "undemocratic", or try and discredit the members of the union - to call into question the motives of the Union Bosses (Shock Horror! They earn more than the factory floor worker!) - it's the age old "divide & conquer" technique.

Unions are actually one of the most democratic institutions in a Democracy... if you attack the Unions - it isn't the Union Bosses, or that one or two examples of "bad workers" being helped by union action - it is the majority of hardworking people, who are only asking for a fair days work for a fair days pay - that you are attacking.

Would you want to be taught by a teacher that has dignity & self-respect - or would you rather be taught by the one that will work for the least amount of money?

There's an old saying - "If you pay peanuts - you get monkeys"		2011-02-19 15:46:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

There's an old saying - "If you pay peanuts - you get monkeys"

:/

But yeah, I haven't been arguing cause I hate arguing... But I'm sure you'd know where my allegiance lies. Just need to look a few posts up. Wheee.		2011-02-19 15:53:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

:/

But yeah, I haven't been arguing cause I hate arguing... But I'm sure you'd know where my allegiance lies. Just need to look a few posts up. Wheee.

XD orale, they just called you a monkey rawk this means War O_O 		2011-02-19 16:02:00

Author:
Bloo_boy
Posts: 1019

Jeez, I haven't finished my long reply yet, and there's already more posts between mine and Koing's.

I'm working on mah reply as we speak.		2011-02-19 16:11:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

First off, thanks for making an intelligent post. I gain a little bit of faith in humanity every time I see someone on the other side of the aisle writing something without baseless insults. Reminds me that for every... well... you know who, there are people who can still debate in adult manner. Props.

Because I'm trying to get something of value accomplished today, I'm just going to respond to each your paragraphs in numbered form. Hope this is okay.

1 and 2. This is, unfortunately, an ideal solution. There are far too many places where unions simply won't budge, and in my opinion, deserve no seat at the table for refusing to do so. Have things really gotten to sensible debate in NJ? Last I looked into it, there was only the left crying over how evil Christie is. If he's managing to get things done in that condition, then I have even more respect for him. I support such a "scared method of debate" because based on my view of the situation (that union rules are mostly bad), I find it quicker to toss the whole thing out and put something new in place. This is what I believe should be done with HCR, toss the whole thing out now, before it can harm the country, and worry about salvaging the few good parts later. I obviously disagree with you that there are falsehoods being thrown around - my falsehoods tend to be your fact and vice versa.

3. This term swap annoys me. This is like in an abortion debate, when I say I'm for abortion only if the woman's life is endangered, and I always get "Lololol why is her life more important then?" followed up with "what a terrible sexist person". Children. >.> Back on topic, this has nothing to do with humanity and everything to do with the chance for corruption. If the government is involved, I don't want unions. Maybe such dramatic stories never happened, but the days of union bosses hampering companies when they can't get their way is very real and continues to this day.

4. Not much I can say to these except that the free market could have done them a lot better, especially minimum wage. Allow me to take you into Conservative Free Market World a sec:
Free Market World Boss: Well, times are tough. If you take this job, we can only pay you $5.50 an hour right now.
Free Market World Potential Employee: Well, it's not great, but I'll take it. It's better than nothing, right?
Free Market World Narrator: And so the employee took the job. Now, I hear you say, "Well what if they're lying? What if those greedy jerks just want to hold on to more money?" Well, in Conservative Free Market World, he can always take another job, by another employer. And the companies are forced to keep their wages competitive - not because the government makes them, but because they'll lose their workforce if they don't! Hope you enjoyed your visit to Free Market World!

5. I'm far from misinformed. I spend a large amount of time digesting information from various sources, from Beck to Maddow and everything in between. I simply have found that what Beck et all have been saying holds more merit. The internet alone is not a good source, but if you know where to look and how to balance it with other formats, then it's very helpful in educating yourself. Besides... do you really expect to find unbiased information about teacher's unions in a classroom?

6. Dunno what you mean about the comic, I think you might have seen the other one I accidentally posted before the one displayed now.

7. +1 to the trolling Democrat... though again, is politics the place for trolling? Either way, found it funny.

Phew. Well, that's all I've got in me. Feel free to reply to this, but I think I'm done with this thread. Thanks again for proving that not all of you dirty commies are morons. 		2011-02-19 16:17:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

...
I'm just hoping the mods take note and see that maybe.. just maybe.. we can get a General Political thread. I've asked for it a couple times and can see why they don't want the headache of one, but there are enough calm, collected, politically charged people that the thread wouldn't devolve. At least in theory. I don't know though, maybe we'd all eat each other if left alone for awhile?
Anyway, back on point, and I liked the number thing so I'll try to keep up and reply in order.

(1-2) Ok, so you say unions won't budge on issues, but exactly what unions and where are they not budging? Because that's not an argument you can make out of just common knowledge. All unions are not a pain to deal with, they're just looking out for the people that support them, the workers. So when place X says it's going to cut pensions, because X messed up, then of course it's going to cause friction. You couldn't balance your budget properly, over spent, and got screwed over when your bubble burst, and now you're taking it out on the Union? No dice.
Then you must consider the actual facts of the matter. Not disputable is that unions only make up something like 10% of the work force, not nearly enough for these states to claim they are a major problem in the budget.

So you're left with this "tightening the belt" bull that has no substance whatsoever. Even Obama's budget is a joke, another attempt at being this centrist person just begging for Republican's to like him. I want my angry black man back ******! The one from the campaign trail, and I almost want my progressive vote back, but then I have to stop and consider the options available. So I'm forced to just.. hold out more "hope" and "change."
Anyway, so you have a financial crisis entirely because of Wall Street (which, I should mention, got off completely free and got to keep all of the money they made, with extra) suddenly means that the poor have to suffer cuts to WIC, public areas, and, to bringing it back to NJ, cuts to the Police department of Camden, worst city in America years running? Unacceptable to me and these "cuts" along with Christie's COMPLETE 180 degree turn on educational funding is why me and many others see him as "evil" or, more realistically "fat, angry, idiot."

On point though, the debate here is extremely sensible when it comes to tenure, the new system to replace it is very acceptable and will probably pass. While the police situation was not about unions, it was a terrible, senseless way of dealing with an issue relating to the poor. Unions were trying to get police equipped properly and everyone in the city was in agreement with them, but Christie decided to pull the plug entirely and that, like Wisconsin, was a terrible, anti-Democratic approach to the situation. "I don't like what you're offering- *pulls plug*." And he's never spoke of it again. (Camden meanwhile is relying on empty Mobile Police Stations to do it's police work, it doesn't work as effective as having real police come by, I speak from experience having to drive through the actual neighborhoods, not just the main street through Cooper and the Transportation Center.)

Finally, as for your facts and falsehoods, that's a problem with the world political system today over everything. People think the other side is believing lies. The biggest problem is that most of the time, one side thinks the other is lying because it's a part of this even bigger lie. You can't fight that. Just watch Glen Beck for a minute to get how his side thinks. Muslim Brotherhood is taking over, yet America is also behind Egypt, so on.. makes no sense to people like me, a person who lives in the world of facts, but conspiracy theorist eat it up and my facts are just part of the conspiracy. Examples the other way around exist of course, but that's dragging this on too long for a response to one sentence.

(3) That's the thing. Again, unions are only something like 10% of the workforce, yet somehow they are bringing multi-billion dollar corporations and the government of all places to their knees, with 9% active unemployment? Come on, that's laughable. And if you want to get into it about who screws who over the most, the Government, not unions are the worst and most consistent perpetrator of injustice and unacceptable embrace of work conditions. Unions are needed the most when it comes to the public sector, they are far from the safest and most reasonable employer.
When it comes to unions stopping a company, give me an example and I will take that back about it just never happening, because chances are, you're going to be coming back here with a completely slanted, "conservative," story. The only times unions go on strike is to protest conditions that are unfair toward workers. It's to keep them safe and the work reasonable when, especially in the public sector, the vast majority of them are making minimum wage. (7.50 in NJ) Oh, which by the way, was agreed on with the unions. You really think 7.50 is reasonable minimum wage today? I make a dollar over that and bust my *** everyday at work. Couldn't imagine working in the public sector making under that. So the helps prove that unions do indeed budge.

(4) Well that's the perfect world scenario of something, unfortunately, we live in the real world. Oh, but wait! There's history to back me up. Remember those golden times, before the mid 1960's? Back when that evil Government didn't have any oversight. Yeah.. times we so great back then. Back when you got payed (by today's standards) 3 dollars an hour, work 80 hours, no days off, and the second you thought, "well I can just get another job!" you were fired on the spot and replaced. Because they all did that. Yeah.. there's no such thing as "competitive" pay, not even close.
Then, if you look beyond just that one mild example (could have gone with the libertarian view, of being able to discriminate freely, though they did do that too, before unions came along...) you had the companies that promised everything good with their products, and because there was no such thing as an FDA to fact check them, you just had to believe their good will. That this beef paddy was made in sanitary conditions, actually beef, and wasn't loaded with ungodly amounts of chemicals and cost effective by-products.
Free market is awesome! If you're on top. It's completely hell if you're actually working in it. Then there's Wall Street and what happened when everyone just agreed "Free market is the best possible thing for them because..." Hm... History repeats itself right?

(5)

...from Beck to Maddow and everything in between. I simply have found that what Beck et all have been saying holds more merit.
*pops like a sackperson*
... I can't really respond with anything to that. If that's how you feel, then so be it, more power to ya for being open about it, but next time you're watching/ listening to Beck, compare his rants with that of a Maddow rant. Basically, there's a lot less acting up and name calling with Maddow. Also, Maddow tends to know what Marxism and Socialism are, while also avoiding calling people Hitler.
Now excuse me, I have to pick up my confetti pieces before I respawn at the checkpoint.

(7)

...is politics the place for trolling?
Absolutely. v
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/DoubleSwordz/etc%20From%20Computer/Kevin_Smith_vs1.jpg


Woot~ Long posts are a great way to burn 30 minutes. Great debating with ya BBB
I love politics.		2011-02-19 18:47:00

Author:
KoingWolf
Posts: 386

Like I said, I don't intend to carry on a debate - I don't have the time, nor interest in that - but a few points.

Wall Street happened because the market wasn't free. A small group of companies was hand-picked by the government, and so these companies were thought to be more valuable than they were. When the illusion broke, all hell broke loose.

Beck is, of course, a showman. His show does dramatize everything, it makes good ratings. But, from what I've seen, his chalkboards are based in fact. I'd note that what some call a confusion of the terms socialist and Marxist are mainly due to how the people mentioned describe themselves - if they call themselves Marxists, that's what he'll call them, even though most of the people mentioned are more progressive leaning socialist.

Plus, I have hard time finding deception in someone who wants you to check the facts out for yourself. Whether he's wrong or not, I think he believes what he says.

And that's all for me. Good luck with General Politics, because if you think that can happen, you obviously haven't seen the Offensive thread.

EDIT: I take your anti-*** trolling and raise you one anti-choice troll:
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lghq65QecP1qa89j1o1_400.jpg		2011-02-19 19:37:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

So there is no mention of cheese in this thread? ffs.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hLnmsJsdWhw/SAObyCoLqqI/AAAAAAAAABw/R5r26RYp5zQ/s400/WISCONSIN_CHEESE.jpg

http://food-fun.wisconsinfood.com/.a/6a00e54f0ac1a688340105360b9e43970b-320wi		2011-02-20 01:38:00

Author:
MrFunctionality
Posts: 637

I simply have found that what Beck et all have been saying holds more merit.
Aw no... now everything you say has so much less credibility.

So you are for the free market?
I take it you mean the free "American Protectionist" market, that goes against every founding principle of "The FreeMarket Economy" as proposed by Adam Smith - the founder of the idea?

True "Free Market" principles would mean allowing unrestricted cheap imports from places like China and Africa, and removing the protectionist handouts for American farmers etc - which would, overnight, destroy the American economy and rebalance world power.

You "Talk" about freemarket economies - and then engage in a protectionist, manufactured economy. There is nothing "free market" about it.		2011-02-20 08:28:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

I was going to reply with more of the same back and forth, and then list this wonderful report about the history of Wisconsin and unions. Slightly horrifying, but still wonderfully reported and informative. Then make mention of the situation in Libya, but thought this was a much better (read; happier) thing to post about.

Egyptians, Koreans, Germans, and many more are donating pizza to the protesters in Wisconsin. They are calling in and placing orders to "Ian's," a pizza shop in Madison. They've got a Twitter and Facebook as well, and have gotten a big blackboard together of places that have placed orders to them, for everyone protesting in the capitol. States are abbreviated and circled as they contribute.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/DoubleSwordz/etc%20From%20Computer/original.jpg

Politico source link. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49888.html)		2011-02-21 06:12:00

Author:
KoingWolf
Posts: 386

Louisiana donated to the cause?
That has to be wrong.

Louisiana is so conservative they would never do anything to promote freedom.


B3: That womans not trolling. I guarantee you she is srs.		2011-02-21 06:19:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800

Florida is also usually conservative - I imagine it's individual donation from those states and not the guys up top. Or demmies sneaking in a buck or two.2011-02-21 06:34:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046

No, no, I meant the guy who showed up with the bigger sign... never mind.

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgyahbIaBK1qz7ycpo1_500.jpg		2011-02-21 13:26:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

So I take it John Stewarts Rally to Restore Sanity last year wasn't very successfull then?2011-02-21 14:45:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

...

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgyahbIaBK1qz7ycpo1_500.jpg

Yeah, but see the problem BBB, is if that was all he wanted to do, there would be no issue here. There would be grumblings, there would be some groaning, but mostly because, for the large majority, public sector makes you minimum wage, while the private sector pays you much better. It's been that way forever, everywhere. You trade off poor pay in public work, for better benefits.

But that's far from the only thing he's trying to do AND it doesn't affect the Gov's version of the "budget crisis" for anything.


So I take it John Stewarts Rally to Restore Sanity last year wasn't very successfull then?

Well, if you remember, it wasn't that great anyway. Really mixed messages and it's almost like they last their collective balls when the time came to really hammer the point.
So everyone just walked off, disappointed, instead of energized to really change the way everything worked. Missed opportunity! 		2011-02-21 15:20:00

Author:
KoingWolf
Posts: 386

So I take it John Stewarts Rally to Restore Sanity last year wasn't very successfull then?

So I take it Koing and I are the only ones who know anything outside of ad hominem?		2011-02-21 15:29:00

Author:
Voltergeist
Posts: 1702

So I take it Koing and I are the only ones who know anything outside of ad hominem?

My interest in American politics is mainly to point and laugh....

... and occasionally hold my head in my hands and weep.		2011-02-22 14:49:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Time to hold your head in your hands and weep.
Wisconsin, tonight, has passed its Union busting bill (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/us/10wisconsin.html?_r=1&hp).

Despite all the proof it has nothing to do with the budget, despite all the political push from both sides not agreeing with this, they have officially passed the bill. They passed it with no debate and no Democratic members present, 18-1, by cutting the parts of it that were "technically related to appropriating funds" (and thus, even further proof it is not a budget issue).

Live feed from Wisconsin.
http://www.livestream.com/theuptake		2011-03-10 03:52:00

Author:
KoingWolf
Posts: 386

Grr. Oh well, not moving there anytime soon. Nor do I plan to become a public worker. Still makes me angry it happened. Aside from the actual content of the bill it was all very dirty politics (even beyond the norm).2011-03-10 04:11:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046


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