Archive: 10 posts

---

Hello all So, there are any number of logic related tutorials that explain in depth and with clean diagrams what I need in order to have such-and-such a working logic network. These are great. Thing is, I believe that a reasonable person can find a working solution to any logic problem with enough tinkering. So my method is as follows: furiously add and remove pieces of logic as the thoughts are coming to me. After a couple of hours, I generally have something completely functional, sometimes pretty neat, but ALWAYS a pain to edit, because instead of this: http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/rtm223/APhoto_10-3.jpg?t=1295871691 My logic ends up looking like this: http://i6.lbp.me/img/ft/b865d4004d6481c4937a425912f6d841739a60c9.jpg I realize that RTM's "unsigned multiplier" is probably going to look worlds cleaner than my seat-of-my-pants tech logic on ANY given day, simply because he is a far superior logician than I, and the functions of our respective logics are completely different.. Nevertheless, I was wondering if anybody had any helpful tips for making really interconnected logic look a little less like spaghetti? Thanks a bunch guysssses.

2011-02-17 16:03:00 Author: jdteather314 Posts: 74

---

Looking at your circuits, the first thing that comes to mind is to choose a flow direction and stick with it. If you look at the MC that is second from the left (second level deep i believe), you have a tag sensor and impact sensor on the left with wires moving the signal to the right, and the signal also flows down. Then most of your logic is moving up, except for the portion at the top that moves both left and right, and your controllinator that is located on the right with logic going every which way. Try starting with step one on the left, and let it work step by step to the right and keep your components mostly facing the same direction. If the wires look jumbled, then use circuit nodes to reroute them. Doing that will make it loads easier to see where your logic starts, what it does next, and how it ends.

2011-02-17 17:47:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

---

Mmmmm.... Circuit nodes..! That is a really awesome call. Up until now, I've only ever viewed them as things to run through microchips as a clean way of turning the wire on or off. That, and things that I accidentally place when I'm just marginally out of range of a gate's input. If you look at the MC that is second from the left (second level deep i believe), you have a tag sensor and impact sensor on the left with wires moving the signal to the right, and the signal also flows down. Then most of your logic is moving up, except for the portion at the top that moves both left and right, and your controllinator that is located on the right with logic going every which way. ^This makes me realize just how backwards my implementation really is. When you put it that way, I can see why everything ends up looking like spaghetti. Woot! Thanks. So.. How do you get around something in a circuit needing to affect something else "down the line" in the circuit? Like, say it goes left to right, but it turns out as I get closer to the right that something on the left needs to receive multiple inputs from the right. Or the DCS -- it seems that wherever I use it, it ends up outputting to all different kinds of things, which invariably means all different directions. Maybe this is too application-specific for me to reasonably expect some kind of ubiquitous solution to it, but if anybody has any pictures of their well-organized tech logic, I would appreciate any and all for my personal study. Thanks again, Tdarb.

2011-02-17 21:15:00 Author: jdteather314 Posts: 74

---

This is one of my better organized circuits; it's not complex, but it does involve logic looping back to the left. (In fact, there is a cycle in the logic.) The wires behind my sackboy (Which I didn't realize was in the picture at the time) are pretty easy to follow; aside from the active one, they are pretty much straight across. Admittedly this circuit is simple, and I was able to arrange the elements such that there was only one wire crossing with the auto-layout. Edit: Oops forgot to include the picture. http://i8.lbp.me/img/ft/978c2d0add565a96e44f9c0870843c61e8d6c90a.jpg

2011-02-17 22:50:00 Author: Tygers Posts: 114

---

I think microchip organisation is a very personal thing. The image in the post above me looks horrible. Half of it is backwards and upside down so the clear flow of the circuit is missing, sliptters that look like combiners and combiners that look like splitters reduce the readability and the whole thing is just bunched too closely together. All the above is postfixed with implied "IMO"s BTW - like I said, it's a pretty personal thing

2011-02-17 23:11:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

---

Oh I agree, I normally don't turn them backwards and stuff like that, but since the logic is inherently a loop I made an exception there. I did think about that after I posted how the combiners look like splitters, aside from the output mark which actually looks like an in arrow for a moment. Edit: And to be fair, there's only 2 backwards items... One is a combiner, which does sort of make it look like a splitter, and the other is a sequencer, which confusingly reverses the flow. There is also a combiner flipped over but facing the correct way. In retrospect, I don't think I should have done any of those.

2011-02-17 23:17:00 Author: Tygers Posts: 114

---

So.. How do you get around something in a circuit needing to affect something else "down the line" in the circuit? Like, say it goes left to right, but it turns out as I get closer to the right that something on the left needs to receive multiple inputs from the right. Or the DCS -- it seems that wherever I use it, it ends up outputting to all different kinds of things, which invariably means all different directions. Like rtm said, it's really very personal. Personally, if the controllinator will be my main input, I like to put it at the beginning of my flow. That way I can immediately recognize it as a source. I will also put object tweakers and things that are not connected to anything, in one of the corners depending on where the wires are in the chip, and which one I have open. Then just start working from the input side to the other. I place the items where they fall in the line of logic, and if they need to loop back then they do. It just makes it easier for me to look down and make sense of the flow, and know right away which component is activated at what point. With the exception of NOT gates that i will occasionally point upwards at the input they are activating, or circuit nodes, I rarely rotate anything. I've recently started color coding logic bits as well, so i know which pieces are part of the same subtask in a circuit. ...that look like combiners and combiners that look like splitters... Everyone has their own way, and I have to admit that the way that is laid out does make the wiring look nice, but that would drive me batty too lol. Then again, I'm sure a lot of people would feel the same about things i do on my MCs.

2011-02-17 23:31:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

---

Oh man, I can't wait to get a pic of my logic up. Finding anything is like stumbling around in the dark, using your hands to see, it's really quite awful. As long as you label your stuff and describe it, the organization is not entirely necessary (and like rtm+others said, it's very personal). I personally like to, um, wait, I have no strategy. I just go until it works (which is a very bad strategy btw). Best to ignore my advice.

2011-02-18 01:33:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136

---

I think microchip organisation is a very personal thing. I agree after seeing the way people do their stuff for awhile. It's almost to the point of an aesthetic choice, or putting pictures up in a cubicle at work so you can feel at home... I honestly can't see running out of thermo and your logic being the culprit like 'use a thin triangle instead of a 3 plane square' in LBP1. My only recommendation for that logic board, aside from trying to force you to use tag sensors, more microchips, and nodes is to make the background dark black, move that one chip down to the right, and go into front view before you take your picture for LBP.me it'll look way more high res.

2011-02-18 01:48:00 Author: Unknown User

---

Get ready. I now present to you the worst logic organization in all of LBP2....... Notice that in the corner of each picture is the same microship. Top-left:http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2402/topleftlogic.jpg Top-right:http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6481/toprightlogic.jpg Bottom-left:http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2658/bottomleftlogic.jpg Bottom-right:http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8509/bottomrightlogic.jpg Sorry about the large image sizes, I'm not sure how to shrink them.

2011-02-18 02:21:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136

Posts: 1077139    Threads: 69970    Members: 9661    Archive-Date: 2019-01-19

Aus dem Archiv wurden alle persönlichen Daten wie Name, Anschrift, Email etc. - aber auch sämtliche Inhalte wie z.B. persönliche Nachrichten - entfernt.
Die Nutzung dieser Webseite erfolgt ohne Speicherung personenbezogener Daten. Es werden keinerlei Cookies, Logs, 3rd-Party-Plugins etc. verwendet.