Archive: 18 posts

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Alright I'm trying to build a level and not sure how to approach it. Example would be traps, swings etc....do I build them first? Do I build enviromental aspects first then add obstacles? Please help me out here, first level I ever built.

2011-02-15 20:27:00 Author: RaXoR Posts: 1

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I actually sketch my levels out on paper first. I find that doing so allows me to see the big picture and understand the flow of the level more. p.s. Grid mode is your friend

2011-02-15 20:31:00 Author: EinRobot Posts: 739

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Definetly draw it on paper, and plan as much details as possible in notepad for example. You should consider all object, traps and gameplay element to understant how they will affect each other. And then start with the core ones and continue with the parts that depents on it etc... this depends level from level. Sometimes you might want to start with overal shapes of the enviromnent. osmetimes you might need to build some chips and object first.... At least that what I learned during my previsou levels. I started them like "ok, lets do some stuff and see how it goes". It goes fine at the stat. But then you reach the betatesting phase and you will find so many bug and glithes and because of the bad design, it will be extremly difficult to fix them. At least that happenet to me in my first RTS level. The creation went fine, until I put everything together and try to play it... I still consider it best RTS in LBP so far (at least I did not find na better). But it could be so much better. Now I learned from this mistake and creating sequel. Where Im working much more on the paper than in the editor itself. But the results are much more pleasing. And becaues I know how exactly the development will go, I can already now prepare some circuits on the emited object, that will help me with tweking next week. Better than to have to recreate all emited object again. So start with paper and you detailed documentation of every aspect. Then is should be clear wher you have to start.

2011-02-15 20:53:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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I'n my humble opinion, don't go into making a level with the intention of making a level. The entire process will be overcast with a hastyness that may very well impeed your creativity. The level i'm working on came from me and a few gadders, well, gadding about in create mode, seriously just doing random crap with nothing in mind. A mate of mine stuck an advanced mover in a DCS that was stuck to a bit of glass, i flew about in it and thought, hmm cool. We slapped an emitter on it hooked that up to the right stick outputs so we could shoot at each other and copied it over, couldn't hit eachother mind you, no hit detection. We mucked about for a bit and i got really intnt on trying to get the bullets to fire in a direction independent of fly direction, i spent the next hour figuring out how to get to going perfectly. I finally did it. Then i thought 'what else could i do with it?' and began adding logic and different things, experimenting to see what did what how how different things interacted. I spent the next 3 weeks adding to that ship, it evolved into another beast entirely. somewhere along the way i decided it seriously needed some enemies to shoot at, as friends wern't on as much as i was and besides trying to update the logic on two ships so the logic on each 'copy' wouldn't screw up the clones logic was a meaty task indeed. Digressing a little: by this point i'de spent hours on end fernicketing about experimenting, having fun, having no real direction or aim besides the next 'remedial' task or obstacle that got in the way of me forging into reality an inspiriation triggered from playing about and messing with ye olde ship. Along the way i had learned a HELL of allot of very universally applicable atributes of logic, signal flow and component behaviour/interaction. None of which had 'intended' on learning, or 'set out' to learn and understand. The inocent, flippant experimentation and follow the next step as it appears approach had got me to that point alone. The enemies began to take shape, and i began thinking up how to give them ai, so they're fun to shoot at and try chase down while trying to stay alive. So they developed unique 'dispositions'. Each having a certain look, set of atributes, movement logic, some have weapons e.t.c. They began to refine a entities within the forming structure of what was initially, well, directionless. Things started to look nicer. I spent a day working on a little sprite animation for a shield, following the same basic process of solving the imediate task at hand, one after the other, to realize the idea into reality. The more i played the more i learned, and with this i experimented to figure out the best way to do , in that process i ended up learning quite robustly how analogue signal flow works, and how sequencers are AMAZING at triggering digital (or even analogue) outputs at definite analogue input state intervals. I got the Shield looking sweet, put it on the ship and moved on. I needed some form of play area, because the whole room was too big, so i made a simple border. Developed a barrier as i didn't want things to leave the area, added a bit of enviromental logic, lights and whatnot, a bit of music i felt fit, to give it more of a heavy feel when i was shooting at the enemies. I was making my game, i wanted to play, the way i wanted to play it. Oh, its worth mentioning here, i at some point early on vowed to make everything out of hollo, purely because it looks hot as *******. So hit detection and keeping everything in place and, well all sorts of interesting things that made themselves apparent were sure fun, inspirational, interesting and very educational to develop along the way. I didn't 'decide' to make any of it the way i did before hand, i surely didnt plan on making anything, or start out with a big blank room with a burning intent to 'get creative'. It just happened. This point is very important. There is a very subtle yet immense difference between these two psychological approaches. Creativity 'is', in my humble opinion it cann't be 'forced'. Try it. Or dont, to be zen about it. Get deep into the little bits and bobs, stick stuff together. go mad scientist on its ***! things will solidify in your musings, and subconscious intent will develop trueform and gradually evolve direction and inherent inertia as it flows from your emergent creativity and experimentation. This is how ideas are formed. For this is the stuff that dreams are made from

2011-02-15 21:16:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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Lol I think it's easier to think it out in the mind then just go with it, and I promise you won't be disappointed.

2011-02-15 21:26:00 Author: fireblitz95 Posts: 2018

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Epicurean Dreamer has the right idea. My one level so far was a result of me messing about with a little triangular object with a controllinator on it. Noticing that sixaxis input was an option I played around with it and ended up getting tilt control that felt great to me. I'm not sure what all happened between then and the publishing of a finished level, but the parts of it I'm the least proud of are from when I tried to force myself to create something. The time I spent just playtesting the level as it was in development easily dwarfs the time I spent tweaking about in the editor, and the stages I made when I legitimately felt like it ended up being the best in my opinion. I was amazed and proud when it got 10 yays before the first boo and someone said it deserved an Mm pick, because it's extremely suited to my specific tastes and I thought very few people would appreciate the difficulty. Heck, I'm still the only person to beat it at nearly 80 plays even though I added a far easier difficulty. Basically, try to stay in the creative environment without necessarily trying to be creative. Good things tend to hit you at some point or another, at least in my experience. Might as well mention that my old LBP1 level was extremely forced and is terrible and I hate it.

2011-02-15 21:40:00 Author: Unknown User

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As we can see, there are very different methods people use when creating Although I don't think there's anything wrong with going into create with a plan, I'll admit that mine came along almost exactly like Epicurean Dreamer's. Friend and I go into create with virtually no experience and just fool around. I wanted to know how they got the cue ball in Space Pool to work like it did. I get a ball to act similar to the Space Pool balls. Then it was just a big chain of-- Now I want it to "fall" in a hole. Now I want it to "fall" in the hole better. Now I want the ball to go somewhere else after it falls in the hole. Now I want the game to follow a course. Now I want more players. Now I want some neat effects like visual and sound effects. Now I want a way to keep score. Of course that was over the course of a couple weeks. If you have something in mind, I like the "sketch it out" idea. If not, then play around and be creative until you find something that you think is fun and run with it. Of course, I'm a new creator and still learning, too.

2011-02-15 21:46:00 Author: Unknown User

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I wouldn't try to plan/sketch the entire level before hand...there is zero chance that your plans won't change radically in the course of building a level...and it's a daunting prospect to create the entire level up-front. The goal should be to have fun creating so it's important not to put too many obstacles ahead of yourself. Once I've decided on what I want my level to be about I just create a list of anything I can think of that might be cool to have in the level. This includes scenery ideas, characters/critters, game play elements, etc. You'll probably wind up with way more stuff than you can possibly use in addition to lots of things that just won't pan out. Now pick one area of the level and try to design it around some sort of puzzle or game play element. This is when I actually break out the sketch pad to try out a few concept drawings. When I have something I'm fairly happy with I'll go into a blank level and start creating the stuff I think I'll need, experiment with gadgets, logic, etc. Often I'll create a section of the level in its entirety and capture it to transplant into the proper location in the actual level. Don't get too attached to anything you create...if you think of a way to improve it or come up with a better idea entirely, tear it down and start over...you'll be happier with the final product.

2011-02-15 21:51:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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Plans can change yes, but if everything that was built, was built on the fly, I wouldnt step foot in a sky scraper.

2011-02-15 21:54:00 Author: EinRobot Posts: 739

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As we can see, there are very different methods people use when creating Although I don't think there's anything wrong with going into create with a plan, I'll admit that mine came along almost exactly like Epicurean Dreamer's. Friend and I go into create with virtually no experience and just fool around. I wanted to know how they got the cue ball in Space Pool to work like it did. I get a ball to act similar to the Space Pool balls. Then it was just a big chain of-- Now I want it to "fall" in a hole. Now I want it to "fall" in the hole better. Now I want the ball to go somewhere else after it falls in the hole. Now I want the game to follow a course. Now I want more players. Now I want some neat effects like visual and sound effects. Now I want a way to keep score. Of course that was over the course of a couple weeks. If you have something in mind, I like the "sketch it out" idea. If not, then play around and be creative until you find something that you think is fun and run with it. Of course, I'm a new creator and still learning, too. you're the creator of mini golf??!! DUDE that game is amazing! i play that quite often, me and a buddy just had a right laugh on it a few hours ago. Big respect!

2011-02-15 21:54:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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Plans can change yes, but if everything that was built, was built on the fly, I wouldnt step foot in a sky scraper. game != sky scraper.

2011-02-15 22:02:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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I think it's good to have a rough plan to start with, but there's no reason to have every little thing planned out and refuse to deviate from the plan at all. I usually just have a rough sketch of the level I wanna make, with some markings to indicate the general sorts of obstacles I want to put in a given place. It's enough that I'm not just floundering when trying to lay out my level but loose enough that there's still plenty of room for off-the wall ideas.

2011-02-15 22:08:00 Author: Speed Racer Posts: 156

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game != sky scraper.no game does not = sky scraper. It was an analogy, to express the fact that complex things can do with a little planning. I wonder if Mm sketch out their levels first.

2011-02-15 22:12:00 Author: EinRobot Posts: 739

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no game does not = sky scraper. It was an analogy, to express the fact that complex things can do with a little planning. I wonder if Mm sketch out their levels first. I understand that as a robot you like to plan everything out to the most minute detail and calculate every interaction to the twelfth decimal place...but for us humans (and for new human creators specifically) my point is that you only have to plan as much as you feel is necessary...it's FAR more important just to experiment and have fun. Once you have more creating experience you'll develop your own approach that works well for you. It's really not helpful for someone having trouble getting started to tell them to sketch and plan everything out first...they don't know the ins and outs of create mode or what is really possible and will have to find their way through much of it by trial and error adapting as they go as their current skill level allows. I am quite sure that the professional level designers at MM have story boards for every cut scene and sketch out everything...so what? I'll let you get in the last word since I have no more to say on this...just sharing how I create...and you certainly won't convince me your way is better.

2011-02-15 22:30:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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I understand that as a robot you like to plan everything out to the most minute detail and calculate every interaction to the twelfth decimal place...but for us humans (and for new human creators specifically) my point is that you only have to plan as much as you feel is necessary...it's FAR more important just to experiment and have fun. Once you have more creating experience you'll develop your own approach that works well for you. It's really not helpful for someone having trouble getting started to tell them to sketch and plan everything out first...they don't know the ins and outs of create mode or what is really possible and will have to find their way through much of it by trial and error adapting as they go as their current skill level allows. I am quite sure that the professional level designers at MM have story boards for every cut scene and sketch out everything...so what? I'll let you get in the last word since I have no more to say on this...just sharing how I create...and you certainly won't convince me your way is better. wasnt trying to convince you, I was passing along something I found helpful. By no means is it the "best" or "only" way to build a level. I found the structure helpful in getting a grip on having a cohesive level. The only reason I found it necessary to reiterate was because ppl seemed to bash planning. No hard feelings at all man, it is all about fun.

2011-02-15 22:34:00 Author: EinRobot Posts: 739

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Could try what the MOlecule's have shown they do... Create all contraptions/puzzles separately(and ugly)... If its fun as that is, adding the design around it will make a wonderful level!

2011-02-15 22:37:00 Author: Nurolight Posts: 918

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I tend to try and form a plan of some sort before I start. I get ideas mostly from other games I play, and just from reading the boards and asking myself "how would I do that?" Probably a good 99% of the things i make never get published. They're just for my own fun and curiosity. Whether you plan out a level meticulously from start to finish, or just wing it is up to you. everyone has their own style, and none is really right or wrong. Most people do use some form of planning though. I prefer to write down my rough plan. Then I make a list of the elements I know I will need. Then I write down what I think I will need to make those elements work. Then I just pick one and start experimenting and playing. It's a good idea to start with a "design crater" for your project. I'll pick a crater with multiple save slots in it so I can work on several things I will need without having to clutter up my main level. If you need a new vehicle or a scoreboard, you can just make a new level inside that crater and experiment there until you get it right, then capture it and move it to your main level. If I didn't do that I would spend 10 minutes of every hour wondering what that random wire went to. I guess the main thing is to start small. A level isn't one huge thing that happens. It's a series of small ones that get built and put together. If you go into a level with the goal of completing it, it becomes a chore a lot of times. If you go into it thinking "Hey, I wonder if I can make a cool ca?", then you are often surprised at how it evolves. Setting a list of small goals is just easier to manage, and it lets you know that you are getting somewhere with it.

2011-02-15 23:15:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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I wouldn't try to plan/sketch the entire level before hand...there is zero chance that your plans won't change radically in the course of building a level...and it's a daunting prospect to create the entire level up-front. It probably depends on the level itlesf. I believe that doing some basic stuff like "throw boxes to the propper area" it be done on the fly pretty well. But if you try as me to do RTS - the result wont be perfect. You dont have to plan whole level to the tiniest detail. Of course many thing will change. But you should get as much overview as possible. It can really help. Example for the RTS level: - You can not create buildings before you have the units (building emits units) - You can not crete map before you have the buildings and units (you have to know how much free space you need for your base. How wide needs to be walleys so even biggest units can pass) - But without map (you need to know story and all missions to properly design whole map) you can not properly design units (because it is almost imposible to create universal RTS AI in LBP2. You have to tweak it specificly for the map) Also all the price/speed/firepower needs to be thought in advace .Calculate the DPS of the units and try to balance them. If you just do it like "this one is expensive so make it more powerfull", you will end up with unbalanced game (I really have to use few workaround to make it even playable) So you maysee the problem. When I did it on the lfy - it ended almost like the disaster. And I spent few day, just rebulding some objects because these were not usable in my map. Now wit hthe sequel I thought how the game should progress, I made the sketch of the map on my paper, I made many notes. Of courese Im stil ltweaking and changing thins. But knowing how exactly the AI will work and on what kind of map they will move really helps me designing the microchips of the units. It is much easier than to just forgot about it and then try to force the AI in to next week. In case of some more complex levels - the draings and notes are really important. If you dont want to spent few days balancing you random game. Of course if you are just making some platformer that should look nice, and does not have any puzzles or intricate traps - yes, you can just start editor and see how it goes. No need to draw each platform on the paper.

2011-02-16 06:40:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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