Archive: 31 posts

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I'm just starting to get into some moderately complicated logic and am finding that organising my logic and microchips is essential for me. As indicated by the size of the microchip there is a lot more logic yet to come. http://i0.lbp.me/img/ft/d301938a9a6ab09eacb2932c90575b8be0f0603f.jpg So far my organising consists of, Logic Position - I always position the logic so the wire paths are easily seen and understandable. Nodes - Making sure wires go where I want them to if they don't automatically. Logic Colour - I've coloured one section of the logic red to distinguish it from the other parts that will be being added in later. Node Square - I've made a square around the red area as well, using blank nodes. (I tried using stickers but the camouflaged the notes) Notes - I've positioned and coloured notes according to what part of the logic they correspond to. More Info Notes - If you look closely you'll notice two of the notes are marked '01' The note without the black dot is the title of the logic (which I keep open) and the one with the black dot goes into more detail (which I mostly keep closed) If only I put this kind of effort into my room

2011-02-15 01:36:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

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Mine tends to be a bit messy, but I add stickers/notes to help me. Shame you cant see what the notes say in photos.

2011-02-15 02:04:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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http://i7.lbp.me/img/ft/6b78728c9487db1148fa4285e3e62ec71c192954.jpg Like a spider with OCD. It's an 8-way directional reverser (made that term up just now) that lets me make Street Fighter-style special-move input sequences. The battery in the center is a dummy placeholder that does nothing but make my odd numbered OR gates into 4 ports so I can have perfect symmetry instead of a clockwise flow (how do I decide between counter clockwise or clockwise? I'd need to flip a coin). i like your node square idea.

2011-02-15 02:42:00 Author: Unknown User

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Now you have me wondering if I have OCD! I already have ADHD!

2011-02-15 02:45:00 Author: Super_Clone Posts: 849

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Don't be a hypochondriac

2011-02-15 02:51:00 Author: Unknown User

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I usually space every thing one small grid from each other and fill it up from left to right then down a line like typing add notes etc. sometimes i organize it so the movers are by each other. I start making separate microchips for each function when I have 2+ semi complicated ones. Like a moving chip for walking and jumping(for a top down rpg type thing) and attacks and health.

2011-02-15 03:20:00 Author: FocusRSdude Posts: 145

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I usually keep things in a fairly tight grid; 1 space gap between rows, and 2 spaces gap between columns. If there's a gap, or an output scatters all over the place, I often put down an inverted NOT gate, which is essentially the same as a Node, except it keeps the grid

2011-02-15 10:19:00 Author: Unknown User

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I do one of a few things. With straightforward logic, I try to make it flow in a given direction and use nodes to clean things up some, especially with inputs and outputs. I break up logic parts into their own chips a lot of times. like ninja did above, sometimes I find it better to make the circuit look like what it does. I made a digital counter using 7 holo pieces. on the MC I laid out my or gates exactly the same as those 7 pieces, so it looks like it. I will set up movers and directional objects in a d-pad configuration to make it immediately obvious what each one does. I also use stickers once in a while to clarify things....like pasting numbers above the toggles on a counter so I can quickly see what number is active. During creation and testing, I also use red stickers to indicate parts of the logic I know are troublesome, and sometimes yellow ones for things I have changed. Then, sometimes when I'm really bored, I use nodes to write my name with the wires, or make the layout form funny pictures. Ok, I don't really do that one, but I just may start.

2011-02-15 18:17:00 Author: tdarb Posts: 689

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I really must try to organize my logic better. Right now they always end up looking like RTM vomited on my microchips.

2011-02-15 18:30:00 Author: EinRobot Posts: 739

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I try to organize mine so logic components are grouped together depending on what their function is within the chip (overall output(s) on the right, 1st function in top left, etc). I also have a bad habit of using way too many circuit nodes because I absolutely hate the auto-wiring the game will do (like when it snakes the wire all the way around the chip when its destination is only 2-3 small grid units away), though I found in a previous thread that using a huge amount of nodes at first, and then deleting most of them will mostly retain the routing (I went from 26 nodes to 9 nodes without it impacting it too much). I typically don't need stickers/notes because the wire routing I go for makes everything have a nice flow and as a result its easy to find specific portions of the logic. I will, however, name the microchip on the whole so in a sea of nested microchips its easier to find.

2011-02-15 18:33:00 Author: Unknown User

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I kinda group everything similar together, so that if I need an alternate version, I can just copy and paste the microchip without having to go in and put too many inputs back through. http://i4.lbp.me/img/ft/cd4cc5c8a5195e103ae18bc902c9669b1dd52c81.jpg http://i8.lbp.me/img/ft/2c8a2ec469ac3064e4c14e3575e754c6d769e8d3.jpg Yeah... The camera tool wasn't big enough to capture it all at once, so I had to take 2 photos, so they're overlapping a bit. It still took 5 hours, but if I hadn't made it specifically to copy and paste around, it would have taken way longer. Who wants to wire up 420 AND gates? BTW, that's the newer version of my control-swapping thing, and now it separates the D-Pad and analog sticks into 4 separate controls each, letting you change them into the regular buttons.

2011-02-16 12:29:00 Author: KlawwTheClown Posts: 1106

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Auto-routing is made difficult because the algorythm can only optimise the wires that are being moved, and has to leave the rest intact. You can help this by dragging other components up and down (into its original spot). I find I can often get wires to run the way I like by moving some of the input componentsin this way, particularly the ones that have an obviously better route to their destination.

2011-02-17 09:59:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Now you have me wondering if I have OCD! I already have ADHD!Then you need to change your eating habbits. new results are in since a few weeks, that proves that ADHD does not exist, and that its merely a reacting to food you are allergic for. Do some searches on ADHD and allergic to certain food products. No more medication for you, and after a few weeks, your ADHD is gone!

2011-02-17 10:52:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136

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I arrange mine into stages. (unless I'm thinking in fast mode, in which case the logic will go anywhere and everywhere). I'll put a vertical line of components, miss a line, and connect them to components in another line, depending on their order in the sequence.

2011-02-17 11:33:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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I don't organise, I place stuff where ever there is space. That coupled with my trial and error approach to logic means that the result is, let's say, organic.

2011-02-17 11:41:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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I usually do it like this - "Okay let's slap this somewhere and this somewhere else" - (after about 20 parts all over the chip) "Uh wait why did use that AND gate" *deletes* - "Oh right that was why" *replaces* - "Maybe I should organise this stuff a bit... controlling goes here, scoring there..." - repeat from beginning

2011-02-18 19:22:00 Author: Unknown User

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I usually do it like this - "Okay let's slap this somewhere and this somewhere else" - (after about 20 parts all over the chip) "Uh wait why did use that AND gate" *deletes* - "Oh right that was why" *replaces* - "Maybe I should organise this stuff a bit... controlling goes here, scoring there..." - repeat from beginning I would get up to step 2, but i would have deleted a number of things, making step 3 impossible to remember. I had an almost perfect steering system for my car (Pic in OP is the start) Then I had a 'brainwave' to make the logic a lot more compact and simple. This 'brainwave' means I'm now back to where I was in the OP. I organise my logic, problem is I organise it once I'm done and not while I make it. Something to work on.

2011-02-18 21:57:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

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I don't organise, I place stuff where ever there is space. That coupled with my trial and error approach to logic means that the result is, let's say, organic. what an awful awful approach... that err... You pretty much sum up my approach. I've found it's a pain to go back and fix something in the logic though, when you don't know what any of it does.

2011-02-18 23:14:00 Author: PPp_Killer Posts: 449

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what an awful awful approach... that err... You pretty much sum up my approach. I've found it's a pain to go back and fix something in the logic though, when you don't know what any of it does. Yeah, that's usually what I do too, as long as I'm making something that I only plan on using in a level. The other microchip is only organised because I want to eventually publish it. After I get some people to test it, to see if any of the selectors don't work right. Now to find people who don't get scared of all the wires...

2011-02-19 00:08:00 Author: KlawwTheClown Posts: 1106

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I don't like rotating my gates so wires get messy. I try and create editable nodes so i don't have to know the logic when I come back to it; so I'll have a big microchip with all the complex messy stuff and another with 6 or so play gates where I can change inputs, timers etc..

2011-02-19 00:16:00 Author: Shermzor Posts: 1330

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In school i learnt the the three methods of learning; visual, audial and kinestesical. I?m most visual and kinestesical, so i like to use color and notes to orginize my microchips. First, i choose a color that is related with the microchip?s function, if it is a life system(the machine?s health) i use pink, if it is for movement, i should use blue and for attack green. for more simple things I use white. Any thing with outpouts outputs? point to where the most of i?ts objective are. e.g.: If an AND goes to a COUNTER that is above the AND, then the AND?s output should point up, in direction to the COUNTER (PD: I abreviate logic with upper case for you not to confuse!) And every logic in the microchip should be the same color as the microchip. And sometimes i like to replace the microchip icon with any other sticker which should represent that microchip. If anyone has something they think could better this, plese tell me!

2011-02-19 01:59:00 Author: ALEXhatena Posts: 1110

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In school i learnt the the three methods of learning; visual, audial and kinestesical. I?m most visual and kinestesical, so i like to use color and notes to orginize my microchips. First, i choose a color that is related with the microchip?s function, if it is a life system(the machine?s health) i use pink, if it is for movement, i should use blue and for attack green. for more simple things I use white. Any thing with outpouts outputs? point to where the most of i?ts objective are. e.g.: If an AND goes to a COUNTER that is above the AND, then the AND?s output should point up, in direction to the COUNTER (PD: I abreviate logic with upper case for you not to confuse!) And every logic in the microchip should be the same color as the microchip. And sometimes i like to replace the microchip icon with any other sticker which should represent that microchip. If anyone has something they think could better this, plese tell me! Cool, I like the idea of changing the microchip's image, I'm going to doing that from now on too. Colouring according to function is something I might do as well

2011-02-19 02:29:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

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I'm going to have to list myself under the organic approach as well. Trying a new strategy now though. I've pre-created all the logic 'sectors', and use a lot more DCS receivers. This gets rid of many wires across the screen, and makes it easier to work on / copy sections. I like the colour coded function idea. Maybe I'll give that a shot as well.

2011-02-19 08:18:00 Author: SSTAGG1 Posts: 1136

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I don't know what my strategy would be called. The 'lag' approach? In my PvZ level that I am upgrading, the lag is intense. At least 10 seconds to wire something (even if I am hovering directly over it). SOOOO many wires.

2011-02-19 09:13:00 Author: .jamo Posts: 172

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Then you need to change your eating habbits. new results are in since a few weeks, that proves that ADHD does not exist, and that its merely a reacting to food you are allergic for. Do some searches on ADHD and allergic to certain food products. No more medication for you, and after a few weeks, your ADHD is gone! First of all, I just need to say, don't listen to this. If you have ADHD, you have a condition that you should see a psychiatrist to get treatment for. Don't ever listen to pie-in-the-sky internet rumours. The diet thing may help someone somewhere, but don't count on winning that particular lottery. Don't attempt self-medication, either. As for the topic at hand: I like to divide things into specific functions and place them on separate microchips. The example above using a wire box, I'd slap that on a separate chip instead. I an a software developer in my daily life, and I tend to divide my code into as small and single-task bits (typically functions and/or classes) as I can to keep them manageable and fault-free. I use the same approach in LBP. For example, I've built a simple pathfinder, which has one chip that takes three inputs for movement (move forward, turn right, turn left), another sub-chip with the sensors detecting the target location, a chip containing obstacle sensors, and a couple chips with response patterns to certain situations (is there an obstacle in front of me, for example). These chips each have as few in- and outputs as can be managed, since that means I'm clear on what each one does, and avoid doubt when one signal doesn't behave the right way. In programming, this approach is called encapsulating according to the Single Responsibility Principle (SRP).

2011-02-19 14:42:00 Author: Unknown User

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hahaha wow i'm bad i never really used a microchip in my level i just checked logic on random things :S

2011-02-19 14:45:00 Author: malteseassassin Posts: 66

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I tend to make something work, placing things where ever, with only a little organization on an oversized board. Afterwards, I go back and condense it, finding ways to make it more efficient, easier to read, and a much smaller footprint (even on the thermo). Like this for instance: http://i8.lbp.me/img/ft/37895a0ccd3dde9facf4a7e87be4964182fd4e8a.jpg I was able to build that, and then condense it as so: http://i3.lbp.me/img/ft/8f3d18a2f3c1ef3f198694222301c5b297fb2064.jpg Here is my condensed microchip, with all sub-microchips exposed: http://i0.lbp.me/img/ft/2f0f83645ce20201110f33f7cdb626e8763238f5.jpg

2011-02-21 04:39:00 Author: BillyGalbreath Posts: 38

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The example above using a wire box, I'd slap that on a separate chip instead. After reading some of the comments in this thread that's what I'm doing as well. I find it odd that I new microchips could be placed within microchips yet never used this method. Definitely makes for cleaner logic

2011-02-21 08:09:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

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Cleaner logic makes it more sexier than it already is...wait what lol.. XD im kidding. But just organize them by color, you also use stickers ... 1.. 2.. etc etc you know

2011-02-21 18:19:00 Author: Bloo_boy Posts: 1019

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I like to keep things simple, and use the least complicated method for what I want to do. For example, theres a ton of dialougue in my new project, mostly all of it is inspecting objects and talking to others. What I do for my inspecting dialougue is have a microchip that includes an AND switch, a magic mouth containing the information of what is being inspected, and if its an interactable, another AND switch that inlcudes square and and a mag switch, which picks up if your in range to be able to activate/inspect the object. Theres another seperate Microchip for each object that includes the named magnetic key for when the player activates it.

2011-02-22 00:04:00 Author: grayspence Posts: 1990

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I forgot to add I'm also a huge fan of taking some of these component chips I end up making, smacking new stickers on 'em, and then saving them for later re-use. Also, give everything names - chips, inputs, outputs, everything that'll accept one. Specifically they need to be names that say what the part actually does. If you can't think of a good, short name, your chip/wire/whatever probably does too much to keep track of.

2011-02-22 22:48:00 Author: Unknown User

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