Archive: 9 posts

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This is my first step in seeing exactly how far the logic in LBP2 can be pushed. I'm trying to get an idea of scale to figure out if some of my ideas are too ambitious or not. This level uses somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 logic gates, and the thermometer is only a little over half full. Perhaps not as interesting or challenging as it was in the original LBP (See here (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/12/littlebigplanet-used-to-create-32-cell-computer-game-of-life.ars) and here (http://lbp.me/v/g17-x) for the LBP 1 style take on this someone else created) but I took the new tools of LBP2 and created the classic Computer Science simulation of Conway's Game of Life. For those unfamiliar with the simulation, it is based on a grid of cells. Ideally, this could be of an infinite size, but the best I could do this go around in LBP2 was a grid of 12x12 squares. Within the simulation, each generation a cell can live only if it has 2 or 3 other living cells around it. A cell is born if it has exactly 3 living cells around it, and any cell with less than 2 or more than 3 living cells around it dies. Through these simple rules, a lot of complex interactions form. Controllinator controls: Left stick: Select a square X: Set a cell living (Turn on) O: Set a cell dead (Turn off) L1: Start simulation running R1: Simulate a single generation Triangle: Exit the controllinator and end the level http://if.lbp.me/img/ft/d7febf53c0de214e5a0a1de787a2f0f026fc3351.jpg (For some reason, LBP censors the word "computer") http://lbp.me/v/xte28g

2011-02-14 10:26:00 Author: Tygers Posts: 114

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Interesting idea, I was wonderig if this sort of thing was possible. Added to my queue, unfortunately a 12x12 grid wont allow some of the more complex glider guns to be created, but still worth a look

2011-02-14 14:02:00 Author: Shinogi Posts: 31

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Yeah there isn't many interesting patterns you can do in 12x12. I could theoretically do better since the thermometer is only half full at that point, but the technique I was using to build it quickly would have required more manual connections to build it without overfilling the thermometer before I was done. It's easy enough to re-do though; I've got the basic cell layout saved in my objects, and putting them together I took advantage of the fact that a microchip placed on top of another microchip combines the wiring of both. At this point, I consider this algorithm a "brute force". Every cell connects to all 8 other cells around it. But theoretically I could get away with just connecting immediate neighbors... The top and bottom neighbor as a single wire, and the left and right neighbor as two wires. Then each cell adds up it and it's top and bottom neighbor, and passes the result to the left and right. That would probably cut down the thermometer a bit.

2011-02-14 19:46:00 Author: Tygers Posts: 114

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Tried this out this evening, nicely done: http://i0.lbp.me/img/fl/1d0b921565ca049df22e062d31034b9a145821d7.jpg

2011-02-14 22:05:00 Author: Shinogi Posts: 31

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Nice! I was going to leave this as is, but now I'm curious how much better I can do. I have some ideas for cutting down the count of wires and gates, but I'm not sure I can cut it down enough to fit a glider gun into it. The typical glider gun is around 3x the width of the grid I have now. However I'm confident I can push it at least up to 16x16, if not better.

2011-02-15 00:45:00 Author: Tygers Posts: 114

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Hi. From the sounds of it, this version uses a similar schele for wiring and adding to the one I used on my version. I had also considered the alternative technique that you mention, of passing ready-added information hoizontally along two wires. How did that work out? Was there much benefit in it? I also see over on GHudston's thread, that you've now gone wireless and are getting much bigger grids running. Any chance that this will see publication?

2011-02-23 01:46:00 Author: Unknown User

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Hi. From the sounds of it, this version uses a similar schele for wiring and adding to the one I used on my version. I had also considered the alternative technique that you mention, of passing ready-added information hoizontally along two wires. How did that work out? Was there much benefit in it? I also see over on GHudston's thread, that you've now gone wireless and are getting much bigger grids running. Any chance that this will see publication? Using analog and already added signals in one direction drastically simplified the chips. However LBP crashed when I tried wiring it up big. I think I could have gotten it big enough for a glider gun. Switching to the same logic wirelessly, I liked the result as far as thermo and ease of assembly (At the cost of wrap-around, though that is fixable) but the simulation was visibly running at around half speed, and I was already limited to 10hz. I wanted to try a hybrid wired/wireless approach but got tired of futzing with it. Plus the simple "Count the neighboring tags" approach was much simpler, though equally slow on the simulation while being light on thermo. I still have high hopes for my hybrid wired/wireless model. I think it will be a good thermo/speed tradeoff without crashing LBP, but I didn't want to spend so much time on it. My idea as I've said elsewhere was to wire 12x8 blocks, then border them with wireless signals. Then i could stack 6 together to make a glider gun.

2011-02-25 00:43:00 Author: Tygers Posts: 114

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I played on either this or a similar one the other way. It was quite entertaining to see the animation sequence and everything, and it was very well done. But, I'm unsure of what it actually DOES. It says game of life - but where's the game? Could someone explain this to me maybe? Would be really helpful! Thanks!

2011-02-25 00:46:00 Author: standby250 Posts: 1113

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I played on either this or a similar one the other way. It was quite entertaining to see the animation sequence and everything, and it was very well done. But, I'm unsure of what it actually DOES. It says game of life - but where's the game? Could someone explain this to me maybe? Would be really helpful! Thanks! It's not a "game" in the traditional sense... You set up the initial state and then run the simulation to see what happens. You might call it a zero player game, where the moves are defined by strict rules. It is more interesting as a mathematical model, and it is often used in programming courses. Pretty much everyone who has gone through even part of a CS degree has written this "game" in a program at least once. You can read more about it on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_Game_of_Life).

2011-02-25 01:00:00 Author: Tygers Posts: 114

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