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Intergalactic War! (formerly M.A.R.S. RPG)

Archive: 58 posts

The Galactic Empire has fractured. The Age of Conflict has begun. Choose a side and fight to become the most powerful force in the galaxy. Expand your influence and support your allies as you try to overcome your enemies. Four factions, several ships, and countless customizations offers an experience like no other. Battle alone, with and against the AI, or fight with up to 4 players and have some of the most incredibly battles in LBP. RTS, top-down shooter, empire-building, upgrades, skills, stats, saveable progress, weapons, explosions.... what more could you want?
~The description of this level~

The following information is all mostly correct, but many things have changed and I'm still using this as a reference for remaking this level. Will update when I finish.


Overview:


This level is similar to Starfighter: Disputed Galaxy (a flash game). It also has elements similar to EVE. I am expecting to overload the thermo with the amount of things I have planned, so it's likely not everything here will fit, but might as well try.


Name:


I've thought of several names: Galactic Conquest, Galactic Conflict, The Fourth Horizon, The Void, Interstellar War, Seven Empires. What about "Total Annihilation"?

Anyone have any ideas?


Requests for volunteers:
(PM or post here if interested)



Musicians (space themes and sounds)
Play-testers (won't be anything comprehensive to test for another couple weeks though)
Artistic Designers (top down view units and structures)



Have Suggestions???:


I will take suggestions for just about anything as well. I'll be sure to acknowledge you somehow, could be by naming a ship model or space sector after you, or have an NPC with your ID.

Everyone who helps out (even if it's not something I end up using) will get some form of recognition. You spent the time to make a proposal, I'll take the time to let you know I appreciate it.


Here's my new list of everything about my level...


....and just to warn you, it's very, very long. Over 10000 characters...
See https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=53194-How-To-Create-A-Highly-Variable-Health-And-Damage-System-%28Updated%29
I've also made an upgrade system which allows an incredibly amount of customization. I want to include them for enemies as well (though replace about 75% of it with a few randomisers (to represent different upgrades per enemy)

The system includes:

~10 upgrade types (still haven't decided on a few)
~10 tiers per upgrade type (some have less)
most tiers deal with adjusting what logic is used, but some also change emitters (see weapons)
scaling point costs with upgrade tier
a UI for selecting upgrades, and stats about each
Upgrades are ship specific (so multiply this system by ~15...)
A mini display along the sides of each ship which expresses a certain rank based on upgrades (for enemies)
Rank determines how many points are rewarded upon destruction (for enemies)

This system uses a selector (per type), with tags/randomisers to determine which one is active. UI made of many overlapping boxes, with some text and stats displaying what each upgrade is an how powerful it is. There tags are determined by a detection system which senses which upgrades are on the ship selected and thus displays as such (and can then be modified).

Also, just in case it was missed, there are around 10000000000 (10^10) options for upgrades, so an emitter per option for enemies is absolutely impossible.
To accompany these ship upgrades, I'm going to make a character upgrade system for specialty skills, unique abilities, faction based skills, etc. Anything that doesn't impact the function of the ship, and can be used no matter which ship is used. This will be slightly less taxing on the thermo compared to the ship upgrades, but will include special animations, and things that call in allied fighters.
I've got a weapon store, where players can pick and choose which weapons they use on their ship (no actual ship model changes, but HUD reflects which are used). There are many weapons, and each one consists of a microchip (turned on by selecting it from store) with a series of emitters turned on by tags (adjusted by power upgrade tier), and a series of timers (same method, but using rate of fire upgrade), and some tags (to modify stats displayed)

And yet there is still more.... these are all minor components, not so thermo stressing.

Currently, the controls are as follow:


R1 = Weapon 1
R2 = Weapon 2
R3 = Disable Lock-On
L1 = Weapon 3
L2 = Weapon 4
L3 =
X = Confirmations and Selections in Menus
[] = (With D-Pad, Up / Down) Camera Controls
O = (With D-Pad, all directions) Use Skills
/ = Open / Close Main Menu
Up = Open / Close Weapon Selection
Down = Open / Close Skill Selection
Left = Enter / Exit Star-Bases
Right = Open / Close Map
Sixaxis =
Left Thumb Stick = Movement
Right Thumb Stick = Reticule / Lock-On


I've created some real time faction wars, where the player, and each faction, has a reputation with the others.

Star-Bases are controlled by factions and can be taken over by other factions. You choose a faction to play as, and they become your permanent ally (pretty much your own faction, since you basically determine their fate).

Attacking other factions decreases rep, while killing the enemies of a faction increases rep.

Random events may also significantly alter relations. The rep is a sequencer positioned by a timer. Each negative event decreases timer, and each positive event increases timer (like the damage system).

Enemies are auto-targeted by you, neutrals you can select to attack, and allies can't be attacked (using a 'global' tag sensor on each unit to select which rep they have with each faction)
Simple, yet effective means of determining where attacks go. Only exists on player's ships, but am considering putting on enemies to mimic the abilities of the player.

Works by using red markers to distinguish target. Player uses a cursor (right stick) to aim at enemies, and lock-on requires that aim is held over the target for a couple seconds (lock-on time depends on evasiveness of enemies being targetted).

Player attacks aim at targeted unit (or at cursor if none). Some units can break lock-on, or are impossible to lock-on to.

Attacks move pretty quickly, but sometimes it's better to use free aim in order to 'lead' target. May try to create something that does this for you later.
Everything that is too far from the player to have any impact on them gets destroyed. A cloud of 'builders' emit the parts of the level at designated build spots (holo with tag sensor -> tag).

As the player nears these locations, they activate the sensors, thus turning on the tag which brings the builders to the location.
Using some logic to determine total earnings, and detecting what level/rank your character is, the player receives 2 stickers to give them the same amount of cash (a close approximation) and all their skill points when they return.

This prevents cheaters from unlocking everything at the beginning, and promotes replays (although, if you haven't already noticed, I'm not doing this for the plays. Creating is why I enjoy LBP).

Saving could be done through either the Star-Base menu or from inside a Star-Base (if I decide to make them enter-able)

(Note, menus are only accessed while at a star base)
Am planning on making this, but may just put it all in a single level depending on thermo usage.

By using level links activated by either a warp or by reaching the edge of the current sector, the player has a chance to explore other regions (though, depending on how flexible I manage to make saving system, you may not retain certain aspects of your play-through in each sector. Rep, and the ownership of star-systems being the main issues)
By utilizing an analogue display system, it is possible to create a relatively accurate distance to target display, and by using some logic to determine direction and position, a map could be constructed to show unit movement in real time.

This could then be made smaller and put in a corner of the HUD. The visual component won't be super-accurate, but that's what the distance display is for.

The following may not make it into the level due to thermo constraints, but we'll see.

Scattered throughout the level will be asteroids and other floating debris. The player can equip a mining laser to obtain certain ores and gems. These can also be bought at a Star-Base, but it's much less efficient.

In order to produce some of the more advanced ships, weapons and upgrades, the player would need to obtain a certain number of these resources (easily done using counters/timers and sequencers, so it's likely this will make it).
Can enter Star-Bases, letting you interact with each faction. Receive missions, and enter the store. It would cost a bit on the thermo, but the change of pace would be pretty cool to have.

Each faction would have own Star-Base model.
Time or objective based missions which reward player for achieving specific feats (mining, destroying, capturing, protecting, etc...).

Depending on how RPG-esque I make these missions, this could take up very little or a lot of thermo space.
Just using either an emit box with a sackbot inside (obscured to mimic 'communication signal&apos or an animated visual, the player could be approached by NPCs and given things (missions, items, etc..), or just as a distraction while enemies move in.
Each player gets their own ship to control, upgrade, purchase, sell, trade, explore, etc. That or 1st player gets the ship, and each additional player controls a weapon, etc.

It would take up a lot of thermo, since I'd need more upgrade systems, but is completely possible if I have the thermo for it.
ETA: Late Spring/Early Summer..... yeah, I've got lots of stuff planned.



I will need play-testers as well, but not for another few weeks.
Does anyone have any better ideas for a level/series name?
I need some musicians! Just PM me or post here if interested. The music doesn't need to be complex, just enough to make an atmosphere.
I need design artists! Need to create purely holographic designs.
I need sound creators! Weapons and mechanical, also some miscellaneous sounds.
Did they fix the randomisers?


If you read everything, congratulations, you earned a cookie.		2011-02-14 05:23:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Re: savable progress - how saveable? Because as far as I know, there's no way to preserve game data across level links (other than score) or especially, between plays...2011-02-14 22:43:00

Author:
Unknown User

Here are some comments/advice with corresponding #'s

1: Not especially difficult to do, but depending on how many properties you have 1/1000000 is either easy or difficult to reach.
2: Easily done with points as resources.
3: That is slightly more difficult, but should be do-able as long as no really crazy things are involved like slowing down time or disabling bullets. One thing I recommend is to Not have upgrades change the look of the ship or the thermometer will go through the roof.
4: See answer 3
5: Easiest thing you have listed
6: Probably the most difficult thing you have here. One way you can do this is have player 1 be the main ship with all the upgrades and stuff, and have the other 3 as wing-men. That way you can conserve thermometer.
7: Rewards being money and unlocks for ships and weapons is the way I'd do this one. (Meaning you do quest 84 and once completed the store will now sell you the Gun of Blah for 9001 Dollars)
8: Pretty easy as long as there are specific docking bays and not a random drop.
9: Easy as long as factions are not dynamic. Have 1 thing that chooses your faction.
10: Easy but Time consuming



Re: savable progress - how saveable? Because as far as I know, there's no way to preserve game data across level links (other than score) or especially, between plays...

Well you could use a code input screen. The only drawback I can think of is that you can only have a single code for say a ship, then another for the bullet type, (Unless you want to make thousands of codes) so on and so forth. The player may get annoyed.		2011-02-14 23:36:00

Author:
Brian_Istenes
Posts: 151

I'd could use stickers, and combine that with logic to 'activate' the ships and abilities you had previously unlocked. There would be a sticker for each type of upgrade, so each skill rank would need it's own sticker. Each ship would need its own sticker. Each component needs a sticker.......that's a lot of stickers..................

SO, what I've decided to do instead, is just use stickers to unlock 'cash'. This cash is used in the game to unlock just about everything (can purchase resources as well). Depending on which specific events you've encountered, you may also recieve certain stickers to ensure that when you replay, you have those events already completed.

When you choose to exit the game, it sends you to a scoreboard, and you can obtain all the prize stickers you've obtained. When you re-enter the game, you use those stickers and depending on your score from before, the sticker you receive also gives you that score back.

I see no other way of doing this, as the only 'savable/retainable' object is either an object or sticker, and only stickers can be used in play mode, so stickers it is.

A little annoying at first, but hopefully, with all the stuff I've planned, it'll be worth it.		2011-02-15 00:17:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Have a start menu with 2 options
New Game
Continue

Hit Continue

Enter Code
XXXXXXXXXXX

At the end of each level have a code (Before Scoreboard) of the progress, such as the first 3 digits being the ship, 4-6 being weapon, 7-11 being money (make all digits random so you can't cheat w/ math)

Example:
12345678910

would get me ship 123, gun 456, and 79610 moneys.		2011-02-15 01:42:00

Author:
Brian_Istenes
Posts: 151

^ Problem with that is that players could just enter a code that unlocks everything when they start (by being told elsewhere). The method you stated was my original plan, but it's prone to abuse (although who cares, I suppose people could decide how they want to play. Unlock everything (free play), or play the actual 'story&apos.

Any thoughts?		2011-02-15 15:35:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Here are some comments/advice with corresponding #'s

1: Not especially difficult to do, but depending on how many properties you have 1/1000000 is either easy or difficult to reach.
2: Easily done with points as resources.
3: That is slightly more difficult, but should be do-able as long as no really crazy things are involved like slowing down time or disabling bullets. One thing I recommend is to Not have upgrades change the look of the ship or the thermometer will go through the roof.
4: See answer 3
5: Easiest thing you have listed
6: Probably the most difficult thing you have here. One way you can do this is have player 1 be the main ship with all the upgrades and stuff, and have the other 3 as wing-men. That way you can conserve thermometer.
7: Rewards being money and unlocks for ships and weapons is the way I'd do this one. (Meaning you do quest 84 and once completed the store will now sell you the Gun of Blah for 9001 Dollars)
8: Pretty easy as long as there are specific docking bays and not a random drop.
9: Easy as long as factions are not dynamic. Have 1 thing that chooses your faction.
10: Easy but Time consuming




Well you could use a code input screen. The only drawback I can think of is that you can only have a single code for say a ship, then another for the bullet type, (Unless you want to make thousands of codes) so on and so forth. The player may get annoyed.

1. Already done, lol, just need to work on enemy appearances.
2. I was thinking more of "collect 20 ____ ore, and 10 ___ ore to obtain ___" for the resource collection. Points are cash (which can be used to buy resources, though less efficient).
3. Oh, don't worry, I've got some crazy stuff planned (and some completed already). Warp drives and shielding, along with allied drone bays. May be a little too much, but we'll see when I get there. You get hangers for the ships you own, so the parts you purchase can be teleported from the base with the ship to your current base, and added to your ship.
4. Mostly related to ability to use things you have, so more base speed/damage/range. Also, deception so you can get close to enemies before aggro, enemy lock on speed increases, ranks, etc. Things that don't change when you switch ships (can be further upgraded by ship upgrades, but those are lost when you switch ships depending on the capabilities of the ship).
5. Yeah.
6. It depends on how much space a single player takes up. If I can't fit any additional players (even 2 would be epic), I'll try to add in the player controlled parts of the ships (drones, weapons, targeting).
7. Pretty much.
8. Yep.
9. Not sure how significant I will make this. Was planning on having level divided between factions, and when you ally with one, relations change with another. I was planning on making them dynamic, so start off weak, and actions either increase or decrease rep.
> My goal is to make the bases and planets dynamic, so changing faction ownership. Not too hard to conceive how, but.... issue would be that one faction could take over entire system, spelling permanent doom or success of player. Already made a test version of it, but meh so far. Needs a lot of work.
10. I think I'll just go with codes. Options at beginning to Start New Game, and Continue (and tutorial, guide, highscores, credits). People could just cheat and use a random code to unlock stuff, but oh well. I'll likely make it in stages to cut back on variables. Player could gain experience from getting money, items, ships, kills, etc. Lose experience by failing missions (timed or death), dying, losing rep, etc.

Something else I'm planning on adding is a pause feature. Surprisingly easy to do at first, just put gravity tweaker to prevent movement and deactivate everything. Problem is that all missiles either continue moving, or when stopped, remain in place. Also messes up timed things.

I'll probably sort out a fix as I go, but for now, I'll leave it out but design stuff so it's possible (at least for most things)		2011-02-15 22:00:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

with saving you could just use a system of stickers but you would either have to make a sticker for every abilite and upgrade an quest. Or you would have to make alot of stickers that have a combination of all the diffrent abbilitys. or you ccould make it copyable but then people would just repost it as there own.2011-02-16 10:03:00

Author:
Unknown User

Test, test, test.

Fourth post attempt, sorry if I suddenly spam, but this is getting annoying.

Extensively shortened summary of my last 3 post attempts, lol.

- Stickers are not compatible with the number of unlockables I'm imagining
- Only two stickers you get are cash and rank
- Cash is based on total earnings (so when you quit, all bought things add to score and then you earn the correct sticker)
!!! - Question: Can I use a single score sensor maxed out attached to a sequencer with all the batteries for the sticker emitters. The score sensor (if my interpretation of its functionality is correct) should position the sequencer to a certain battery, thus powering a certain sticker based on that score
- Rank is what level you achieved through gaining experience
- Unlocks skill points for character upgrades

___________

Experienced Logicians: How much thermometer does a very extensive logic system take up? I thought of this project as a result of my numerous other attempts to create things for other levels. Now I want to combine them all (only 1/4 completed though) so I'm concerned about how much of an effect this will have on the thermo.
___________

Musicians: I require some musical talent for creating the ambiance for space travel, a space station, and combat, as well as any random firing sounds anyone can think of (lasers, artillery, beams, lightning, explosions, flak, cannons, etc).

I don't need anything extensive, just something to create the correct atmosphere. I attempted my own very simple space ambiance, and just by using 3 notes, I made a decent track. All I need is someone with a good 'ear' for using the right notes, and something as simple as 3 notes would work fine IMO.		2011-02-17 05:53:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Just finished targeting and movement.

- Have 'heat seekers' which are more effective based on how much power is going into the player's thrusters (can adjust power using L2/R2).
When not powered, the player's ship can't move, but can't be targeted by heat seekers. When full thrust, player can move at top speed, but is tracked perfectly by heat seekers (becomes a race of who is faster......and the missiles usually win. Only a few ship models can outrun missiles).
- Auto-targeting for certain weapons. A reticule slowly moves towards enemies, and upon reaching it, activates weapons.
- Manual targeting for main weapons. Lasers and normal missiles aim at where player has targeting reticule positioned. Player can lock this position on enemies with a press of R1.
- R1 also disables lock-on when reticule not near enemy.
- X, square, O, and triangle used to fire weapons.
- Holding L1 alternates buttons to secondary, which include specials like speed boosts, lock-on evasion, 'super weapons', and deployable drones.

EDIT: Using the Right stick and face buttons at same time is difficult, lol. Going to think of different ways to do this. Problem is I've got a star cruiser with 8 weapon slots, can't use only R1 to fire, since I want to be able to fire multiple weapons at once)
May change all weapons to require lock on, and then the only function the right stick has is to change where lock-on is.

It's epic, and hasn't even gone over 3rd notch on thermometer yet!

Work on the faction struggle, where ships belong to factions, and each faction is either allied, neutral, or enemies with the other factions, has gone well.

I still need to work on when ships stop defending and start attacking, but other than that, its good. Ships circle bases, and attack enemy ships depending on how stressful relations are.

0-40=No attack, 40-60=randomiser to determine attack or not, 60-100=Attack.
Random events modify relations, and each attack increase stress.
(this is using lots of logic combined with a sequencer)		2011-02-20 23:20:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

^ Problem with that is that players could just enter a code that unlocks everything when they start (by being told elsewhere). The method you stated was my original plan, but it's prone to abuse (although who cares, I suppose people could decide how they want to play. Unlock everything (free play), or play the actual 'story&apos.

Any thoughts?

Maybe use the score count? It won't allow players to save their progress between sessions, but it'll work across level links.

For that matter, encrypting a data string using some property of the player would be the ticket - that way any given code would only work for one player. Though what sort of properties one can read off the player (PSN ID, maybe?), I don't know.		2011-02-21 13:20:00

Author:
Unknown User

That would work, but only if I was actually using a level link (the entire thing is one level, you just return to it each time).....

.....You just gave me an epic idea, multiple main sectors, and when you travel to the edge of one, or choose to travel, you go through the level link to that sector. Thanks. You would retain your score (using logic to give you all the cash you earned).

Problem would be getting the stickers for other events. Anyone know of a way to give players object bubbles? I guess I could just send the player to some location after warp, kick them out, give them the stickers, and have the level link there (could then have an option to continue through, or return to current sector.

And checking for PNS ID would be absolutely awesome, but impossible.
_____

Just some updates:

Had to recreate targeting system due to some issue, where the follower, no matter what, couldn't keep perfect position over the tag it was following. Had a 100 speed 100 acceleration follower chasing a target moving 1 speed, and couldn't keep up...........?!?!?!

Easily fix using more holo (lol, only material so far is holo).

Also, created a visual for how much power going to thruster. Now it's easy to tell how much heat you're giving off (for the AI, I'm going to make their thrust dependent on the events around them. Almost dead = run away and full speed, heat seekers = turn of thrusters (speed of change is skill based and ship based), etc...)

Created the damage system, with 20 damage normal damages, 5 constant/increasing damages, 5 healing, and 3 constant healing (one is just the ship's personal repair ability, so wait around while not getting shot and you'll heal).

Have a pic uploaded soon, it's bad quality, but it's the best I can do right now. Just showcasing the art design (nothing else works really works 100% yet).		2011-02-21 18:32:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Updated original post with a TON of new info, mainly for people who want to check logic. Need someone better than me, so might as well say what I got. Also, it makes for a perfect guide to my level for when I release some demos and for play-testers

Thermo jump was very manageable when I added my upgrade systems, not even a 1/5 and I've got many things done. Looking good.		2011-02-22 07:27:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Name:
My
Absolutely
Ridiculous
Space

MARS RPG!

Btw, I prefer tags/wireless logic myself. It's most likely a good habit to get into.		2011-02-22 08:42:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

I have absolutely no idea about logic, but from what I could tell this looks to be cool. I'll keep an eye out :kz:2011-02-22 11:57:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

Just added in an 'aim assist'. When right stick is untouched, reticule automatically moves towards nearest enemy (within range of the cursor), and locks on when within lock-on range. This is overirdden by any input from the player.

The efficiency of the aim assist is upgradable, with the final upgrade pretty much doing all the targeting for you.
_____

@midnight_heist:
I converted everything to wireless. Works perfectly now, since I can adjust signal strength wirelessly, so only one tag is required for an entire upgrade tier (sequencers ftw!). This has cut the thermo usage of the upgrade system by about 75%. Epic!

You'd think it'd be very complex, but all I use are a selector, some ANDs and ORs, and a sequencer with ~10 (the number of tiers) batteries. All batteries then go into an OR which activates tag. Tag sensor reads strength of tag, and manipulates upgrade accordingly (either sequencer or strength scales).

Probably wouldn't have bothered switching everything over if you hadn't responded. Never would have realized how much simpler I could make my logic. Thanks.
Also got me thinking about another method to do damage, using only a single tag with variable strength. Would mean I only need a few damage and healing tags (instead of my 40+ right now....). Will give it a shot. If I can run it at 30Hz, then damage loss from multiple hits would be minimal, and this system would be absolutely brilliant.
____

Still need a musician.... anyone???		2011-02-22 21:58:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

I think "Absolutely Ridiculous Space RPG" is a great name on it's own.

Reminds me of Explosive Suicidal Robot for Dreamcast.		2011-02-22 22:00:00

Author:
Unknown User

To many rpg levels being made by the lbp 2 community2011-02-22 22:15:00

Author:
tuyyui
Posts: 175

It's more like an upscaled top-down shooter. Don't want to leave it at that, since there are many things here that are more than just a shooter. No actual 'role playing', but with so many things in common with an RPG, it seems like the most relevant choice.

Also, confirmed that new damage system is awesome (well, still some issues, but looking good so far). Have some more things to try before I decide whether to switch from impact to tag sensors.
___

Edit: Bah! The impact powered damage system gives a much better damage detection, but also takes up more than twice as much room as the tag sensor system. Will have to see how much space I have at the end to determine which one to use.

Also, only 4 bars (for some reason it dropped from 5 while playing today) of thermo usage, and so far I've completed:
- Ship upgrade system (minus emitters for weapons)
- Player upgrade system (minus emitters for special actions)
- Movement of player's ship
- Movement of cursor
- Targeting
- Base circling system for units (probably more complex than it needs to be though)
___

EDIT 2: About to add an 'energy' level, which is used to power shields and weapons. Decided to use R2 and L2 as analog triggers for fire rate of weapons. L1 and R1 can also be used (either hold or single shot). D-pad can be used to switch weapons and skills, and face buttons, when combined with other buttons, perform various functions.

EDIT 3: Turns out the tag strength based damage system is possible, epic. Tags are now activated by impact, and tag sensors are always on. Works great.		2011-02-23 00:23:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Make a Faction Map, a hologram would apear showing the entire map, but mini and each faction is highlighted in a collor. Or make a huge camera zoomed out alot that you can control, it should also pause the game too.2011-02-25 19:38:00

Author:
Matt-The-Silent
Posts: 52

I've fiddled around with pausing the game, and Epicurean Dreamer may have inadvertently found a way to to this successfully for projectiles.

Whenever you leave the game screen, the game will pause (just activates a gravity tweaker with 100% dampening, and disables damage and healing). Projectiles pause as well, but retain their movement speed for later.

For the faction map: Great idea. It would be the hologram map of the space sector, with an optional faction view. I may create Spheres of Influence for factions, and have these impact the capabilities of units on based on their relation with the faction. I am not sure exactly how I would implement this into the map, but perhaps 'rings' of darker hologram with colour based on faction could be used to very vaguely display influence.

A HUD element would show current area influence.		2011-02-25 23:10:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Finished 17 bit registry for damages and heals between + 99999 and - 99999. It was surprisingly light on thermo, so tons of units on screen at once using it (eg: 15 is max before starts to lag) only takes up 3 parts of the thermometer. Pretty good for a system with ~120 parts.

Lost my DCS holding some of my logic on it though. A mismatched DCS sent it out of the map (destroying it), didn't notice till after I quit and saved (should have made a back up, bah).		2011-02-27 05:58:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

if u need help with anything (creating a buy wingmen or gunners ect is preferred) I will help with that2011-02-27 07:59:00

Author:
Unknown User

Can I make a request to take a peak at your damage system logic? I'm currently working on a damage system that works on a 4 digit display, and what you have going on sounds similar to what I have.2011-02-28 02:32:00

Author:
Firemac
Posts: 13

@ Firemac: I don't actually display the damage, though I am trying to convert this into a timer display for health. A digital display (numbers 0-9) could be done by using multiple ANDs and NOTs to determine which digit has which value. I'm not sure about displaying it in any other form though.

@helloboyye: I don't require much logic help, though if you have nice looking spaceship designs, that could help. I think I may have stumbled onto how to make some decent looking ships using only hologram though. Hollowed out each ship, added some internal components. First one looks decent, and the turrets now actually rotate to look at where they are shooting (was flat before, so couldn't adjust this....not sure why I had it flat though).		2011-02-28 04:31:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

I'm not worried about displaying via numbers. I have that worked out. I'm just curious about how you're handling damage.2011-02-28 07:03:00

Author:
Firemac
Posts: 13

I'm not worried about displaying via numbers. I have that worked out. I'm just curious about how you're handling damage.

probably something like my health logic-hologram turns off when hit by a projectile to signal loss of hp and gets destroyed when all impact sensors are activated		2011-02-28 08:14:00

Author:
Unknown User

@helloboyye & Firemac
Well, 'kinda'. I use each bit to represent consecutively higher values. In order from 1st to 17th bit:
1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, 32768, 65536.

I only recently learned how to use this stuff (started logic 1 month ago, learned this yesterday). Don't expect this all to be 100% correct.

Notice that all the values before a bit add up to one less than the bit. This means that any number of combinations from 1-65535 can be achieved using 16 bits, and I can achieve full 5 digit number flexibility with the 17th bit.

Adding is simple as flashing which ever bit you need to add. Subtracting is the opposite, the only bits you DON'T flash are the bits you need to subtract. There is a catch though, you need to add one to the inverted value, potentially changing which bits you use.

Each bit is either on or off, true or false, 1 or 0.

So if I add 63, I flash bits 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 (so would look like 00000000000111111). To subtract 63, I flash all the opposite bits, but add 1.

Inverted, the result is 11111111111000000, and adding one gives me 11111111111000001. This will result in a carried over bit value to the 18th bit, which doesn't exist, and must be wasted (ignored) for the subtraction to function properly.

..Carry:...1...1111111111111111
...Value:.......00000000000111111
.Change:.....+11111111111000001
..Result:.......00000000000000000, which is 0, since 63+ (-63) is 0.....yay? The '1...' is the wasted value to make it work.

Only problem I foresee is that I can't add by any value which runs into overflow. Guess I need to add another component that determines whether it is subtraction or addition, and treat the result accordingly (so overflow from addtion = death, from subtraction = ignore).

Hope this explained some. I'll be on tomorrow so I can show it to you then.		2011-02-28 09:08:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

This sound interesting. RPGs are kinda rare from what I've seen so far in LBP2.

Still need a musician? I Wouldn't mind drumming something up for this. 		2011-02-28 09:17:00

Author:
comishguy67
Posts: 849

That would be fantastic. I don't have much to show (only logic really, and lots of it), so it might be hard to get the right vibe. Unless you have some ideas already, there won't be anything to see for another few weeks.2011-02-28 09:36:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

That would be fantastic. I don't have much to show (only logic really, and lots of it), so it might be hard to get the right vibe. Unless you have some ideas already, there won't be anything to see for another few weeks.

Well, it's space-themed, so I kinda have some ideas. Do you have an idea of how you want it to sound?		2011-02-28 16:24:00

Author:
comishguy67
Posts: 849

What I would like to have is:
1. A deep, low, space ambiance for when nothing happening while traveling or when afk.
2. At least one hectic 'battle' track.
3. A foreboding ambiance track for when traveling through enemy sectors
4. A more 'lively' space track for when traveling through friendly sectors.
5. A random space noise track for when upgrading ship or looking at menus.

That's quite a lot, so the most important ones would be a battle and ambiance track. I'll search for some tracks after school (4 hours).

If you know it, Total Annihilation had some epic space tracks, though it used several orchestral parts, so I'm not sure if it could be recreated successfully in LBP2.		2011-02-28 16:44:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

I could help you out with more designs (Matt-The-Silent sent you some I believe, I helped on them. ).

I could also try music, but I'm still a newbie at it, so don't expect something AMAZING. D:

But those tracks seem really basic, and since I'm a Star Wars nut, I know a lot about space tracks. 		2011-02-28 17:00:00

Author:
Jedibrad
Posts: 85

Ah, I see. That's interesting use of binary.

That's actually nothing like what I have, lol.

I'm using a system of selectors that represent each number. From there I convert the values into analog, and take in another analog value to perform some math which then returns the value into a sequencer which then decides which port on my selector needs to be activated.

I've got it working. (for the addition anyway) But yeah, i was just wondering how you did it to see if I could get a clue of maybe how to rearrange my own logic, but I guess I hit a dead end on that. =P

But thanks for sharing. And I'll probably be stopping by again to see your progress on this, it's sounding pretty good.		2011-02-28 17:34:00

Author:
Firemac
Posts: 13

Found some links for the music I was thinking of. Epic game, epic soundtrack, but possible in LBP2, I hate to say no, but, well, it's mostly orchestral. The string parts could probably be recreated, and maybe with some skillful use of some other instruments to hit those crashes from the brass. Have a look.

These are mostly all Total Annihilation songs. You can just pick one and find the links to all the others, but I felt like posting them all because they are just too **** epic.
I've thrown some Baldur's Gate in there for good measure. Now those were two epic games.

Spacey Stuff:
Futile Attempt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx1hWRDt3tg&feature=related)
Blood of The Machines (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apUTmwwx3B8&feature=related)
Charred Dreams (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug8_BWVT9DI&feature=related)
Where Am I? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGD0B7arXY8&feature=related)

Battle:
Warpath (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGdfarT244Y&feature=related) (get's even better at midpoint)
Fire and Ice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qlZEYIS0qg&feature=related)

Allied:
Forest Green (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP2spT0TwCw&feature=related)

Enemy:
Death and Decay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DPok-2ciik&feature=related)
Baldur's Gate II Main Theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB7T6Kd9cYg&feature=related)
Stealth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyO_t4nspbw)

EDIT: Firemac, I tried adding you, but your friends list is full. Contact me when you want to look.		2011-02-28 21:32:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Hopefully you'll like the stuff Matt sent you.

Now that I have ambiance (Which is creepy, but I figure that's how space is like. ) and fighting down, all I have left is the foreboding one and a lively one.

And the random one... But that'd be hard. 		2011-03-01 04:19:00

Author:
Jedibrad
Posts: 85

Yeah, got them. The 3rd faction looked great, and several ships used designs I hadn't thought of, so thanks. Some of the designs had a really nice impression. I'm working on a new design structure which looks better (operational turrets now), so I'll send a model when complete. I'm going to to adjust some of your ship designs to match that of the new idea.2011-03-01 04:52:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Thanks!

Loved the 3rd faction as well. /biased

Ooooh, I'm excited now.

You like the music? /curious		2011-03-01 04:58:00

Author:
Jedibrad
Posts: 85

I haven't been on yet to see the music.
I like the design of the hologram stuff, though it would need work before I could us it as the final product.		2011-03-01 20:22:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

oh sorry, I didn't notice your edit there. Yeah I sort of reached the max a couple weeks ago. I hate it, because I hate pruning my friends list for people I don't talk to anymore. I mean just because I don't talk to them anymore doesn't mean we can't talk anymore ya know?

But anyway, I'll make room for ya. By the time you read this I should have deleted someone to make room.		2011-03-02 19:20:00

Author:
Firemac
Posts: 13

Update:

Game will use multiple levels for different regions, including:

Space Sectors: Pretty much the game I've described so far. See 'spoilers' in main post for info.

Warzones: Dedicated locations where you just fight against your enemies. Main location for faction wars to occur, since I have some plans for super ships that just don't fit with the Star bases. Reputation is retained, and all reputation modifiers are used (so you could be at war with everyone in the game is you aren't careful). Score is retained, so useful for getting cash quickly. Battles here should be epic, since I would be able to use several more ships and weapons due to the drop in thermo. Each faction will have their own 'portal' through which units get called in.

These next two sublevels are optional, since it would require some actual visual skills, of which I have none.

Planets: Sackperson roaming adventure on planets. You can obtain special resources and codes for unlocks for your ships.
Star-Bases: When you enter bases, you can decide to explore them to get quests and trade, etc. Purely cosmetic though, since I don't want to force players to waste time constantly going in and out of bases for upgrades, missions, resources, etc.
______

What are some thoughts on the new direction?

***I seriously need experienced designers. The work we've done so far is great, but lacks the 'wow' factor that I'm relying on. If you have any experience with holograms, please lend your skills.		2011-03-03 05:25:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

I can try to make visuals if there is no one to take the place.2011-03-03 06:17:00

Author:
waD_Delma
Posts: 282

Woot, just realized how to avoid carry issues when healing. Healing increases binary value, and damage decreases. Had other way before.

Now, the additional carried value won't trigger death, only a 0 value will cause it. Now just need to determine how to restrict max health to values other than each bit (restricting max to a multi bit value, eg 10110 instead of 10000. How to stop addition past certain values?)

@waD, if you could, great. Right now I need all the help I can get for these designs.		2011-03-03 08:23:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Me and Jedi_Brad are working on a Apocalyptic lvl atm but maybe we can pitch in a few designs for the space stations and planets.2011-03-03 22:30:00

Author:
Matt-The-Silent
Posts: 52

I'm going to post a list of things to do in the main post soon. People can then volunteer for whichever parts they think they could do perfectly.

EDIT: Nevermind, giong to be away for a bit (well, just away from LBP), and I'm rethinking some of my ideas, so once I get back I'll organize the group.		2011-03-04 02:23:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Alright, so a simple update, but quite significant.

I'm going to try creating some avoidance logic so that units 'can't' move towards another unit. This will be done by adjusting the power going to the adv. mover/movers, and steadily decreasing power as the units get closer. This way the units can still head away from eachother at fill speed, but not towards.

What this means is that I no longer need to just use hologram for visuals, so many of the designs sent so far no longer need to be modified, and I can actually produce some decent looking units.		2011-03-09 03:49:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

I could playtest for you.....

I love space-themed levels. I'm making a kind-of space-themed side-scroller now, but I've only made the craft (full health system) and the boundaries which move or allow emitted things to flow through them.

If you want me to playtest, just send me a message. 		2011-03-10 07:23:00

Author:
mutant_red_peas
Posts: 516

Alright, I'll keep you in mind once I put together something functional.

I'm ridiculously busy right now, so it's unlikely I'll be able to get anything significant done until April.		2011-03-10 08:17:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

So I've started work on my level again. I am still very busy, especially with exams and some more large projects coming up, but I think it's safe to say I can put at least some time into producing this. Looking forward to May, since 3 of my courses end then, giving me some more time to get this done.

Things I've managed to perfect during my time yesterday:

- Upgrade logic is limited to 5 upgrades (since having 10 upgrade types per unit, and these each scale by 10, was a big hit on the thermo)
It correctly takes away score when you have enough points, you have the option selected, and you press the upgrade button.
You can also sell upgrades for a slightly smaller refund.
The upgrade value is wirelessly transmitted via tag, so the system can be copied for as many upgrades as you want, and the variation is from the tag label.

- Player View, Camera, and Movement is done
There are 5 different view ranges, but you need to upgrade your view range to attain the larger ones.
You can upgrade movement speed and acceleration.

- Cursor for aiming and lock-on is complete
You adjust where the turrets of your spaceship aim by using the reticule.
You can lock this aim on certain enemies by locking onto them by hovering your reticule over them.
The lock-on time decreases with each lock-on upgrade.

- Damage system is now complete (what's this, the fifth one I've made so far, lol)
Max health, damage, and healing range from 1 to 864000.
10 changes can be recorded in a single frame (5 damage and 5 healing).
Only the highest values are recorded if there are more than 5.		2011-03-20 22:13:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Everything that is too far from the player to have any impact on them gets destroyed. A cloud of 'builders' emit the parts of the level at designated build spots (holo with tag sensor -> tag).

As the player nears these locations, they activate the sensors, thus turning on the tag which brings the builders to the location.
How will you do this? I am interested because I might be creating a similar system for my level Dreaming of the Sea (link in signature). Overall, this sounds like a great project and very promising. I would like to help out after I am done with a playable version of Dreaming of the Sea, and would greatly appreciate any contribution - be it feedback, level design, or logic related.		2011-03-30 01:59:00

Author:
Unknown User

Everything that is too far from the player to have any impact on them gets destroyed. A cloud of 'builders' emit the parts of the level at designated build spots (holo with tag sensor -> tag).

As the player nears these locations, they activate the sensors, thus turning on the tag which brings the builders to the location.

How will you do this? I am interested because I might be creating a similar system for my level Dreaming of the Sea (link in signature). Overall, this sounds like a great project and very promising. I would like to help out after I am done with a playable version of Dreaming of the Sea, and would greatly appreciate any contribution - be it feedback, level design, or logic related.

My plan was to put a holo with a follower with maxed properties. It would have an emitter for every single part of the world I want to be able to destroy/emit. To indicate a build spot, I'd put a player sensor attached to an AND gate to a key. The other AND input would be an inverted tag sensor, where every piece of the level would have the key to disable it (thus turning off the follower key, letting it go elsewhere). The follower would jump around the map to my predetermined locations, building the level as the player moved.

To destroy each part, an inverted player sensor would be attach to a destroyer for all emitted things.

I would likely use multiple builders, each with their own build 'theme' (asteroids, planets, bases, enemies, etc...) just to organize it a bit, and ensure that all parts get emit as quickly as possible (enemies would have farther range of being emit due to radar (just a giant chess grid that detected how many enemies in each grid space.....an idea that probably won't occur though).

Now, in order to get some variability in the level, there are both randomizers and selectors to determine which tag is activated in order to produce the required level piece.

The selectors are for faction battles, where if a base is captured by another faction, it switches the tag to the correctly themed base design. The death of the base would be large enough to allow the builders to go in and place the new base before the player could see what happened. The selector is on the build location, not the emitted item, so as to preserve ownership.

The randomizers are actually a new idea of mine. Each build location could have multiple different parts that could be made. The randomizer would select which one gets emitted, and thus the game experience would be different every time the player plays the game.		2011-03-30 04:01:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

i'd love to help!
oh... wait...		2011-03-30 07:39:00

Author:
TheLittleSoAndSo
Posts: 181

My plan was to put a holo with a follower with maxed properties.
I'm not sure what this means, I don't have much experience with the holographic material.


It would have an emitter for every single part of the world I want to be able to destroy/emit. To indicate a build spot, I'd put a player sensor attached to an AND gate to a key. The other AND input would be an inverted tag sensor, where every piece of the level would have the key to disable it (thus turning off the follower key, letting it go elsewhere). The follower would jump around the map to my predetermined locations, building the level as the player moved.

To destroy each part, an inverted player sensor would be attach to a destroyer for all emitted things.
My understanding of this is that the activated player sensor and the activated inverted tag sensor would activate the follower through an and gate, bringing it to the player's location, and building the required piece. The piece's key would then deactivate the inverted tag sensor, allowing the follower/builder to go to the next needed place. Once the player is far enough away, the piece is destroyed using an inverted player sensor attached to a destroyer, all placed on each emitted piece.

Interesting technique. I thought about having a building system similar to this, where pieces are emitted during the playing of the level, but decided against it, in favor of pieces being emitted while the player waits at the beginning of the level. Also, destroying the pieces presents the problem of 'back-tracking', especially when you get the randomizers involved below. If the player 'back-tracks' would the same piece be emitted a second, third, or fourth time?


I would likely use multiple builders, each with their own build 'theme' (asteroids, planets, bases, enemies, etc...) just to organize it a bit, and ensure that all parts get emit as quickly as possible (enemies would have farther range of being emit due to radar (just a giant chess grid that detected how many enemies in each grid space.....an idea that probably won't occur though).

Now, in order to get some variability in the level, there are both randomizers and selectors to determine which tag is activated in order to produce the required level piece.

The selectors are for faction battles, where if a base is captured by another faction, it switches the tag to the correctly themed base design. The death of the base would be large enough to allow the builders to go in and place the new base before the player could see what happened. The selector is on the build location, not the emitted item, so as to preserve ownership.
This part sounds awfully like what I'm working on for my level...well, except for the enemies and radar. I too am using themes, and possibly even 'cultures' for my pieces (your factions sound like the equivalent of my cultures).


The randomizers are actually a new idea of mine. Each build location could have multiple different parts that could be made. The randomizer would select which one gets emitted, and thus the game experience would be different every time the player plays the game. This is my idea and goal too. May I suggest some collaboration? After we finish our levels, we could even release the logic to the community to see what they would do with randomized levels and game play.		2011-03-31 07:01:00

Author:
Unknown User

WOW, i mean... WOW
If this project goes right, it will be the level of the year!
I cant even imagine how complex it really is, and how much time you are putting in it.
I truly hope that this level gets popular, and gets a MM Pick. Because, from what i read, it has everything to become an MM Pick.
If after all this work, this level gets 50 plays, i will be realy ****** off with LBP.

If you ever need my help, send me a message!
PSN ID: igordennis
=)		2011-04-19 18:10:00

Author:
Unknown User

Thanks igordennis. Only problem is actually forcing myself to finish each component, rather than constantly edit existing ones. I'd say I'm still only about 20% done.

Also, I hate to say this, but I've got a single vision for what this is supposed to be, and even though I received TONS of help, which I am extremely thankful for (they gave me some pretty awesome ideas), nothing seemed to match what I had in mind. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I want to make this my own little project to test myself.

If you've got opinions on what I have planned, I'd love to hear them though. I enjoy thinking up things to do just as much as actually making them, so this design process is like it's own little reward as well.

Anyhow, I think you're quite right about this being pretty unique (don't want to raise any hype though, I'm still a fairly awful creator). I still haven't seen anything like it yet, and I've been away for the last 2 months (basement flooded, PS3 died, miraculously had an old backup on my USB, just got slim last week).

I'll likely hold off development until I'm completely done school, so still another month.		2011-05-24 23:48:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

Observing what was said about score-retention (back on pages 1 and 2 ... that was quite some time ago, eh?), I imagine you could get quite a lot accomplished by combining both player points and stickers. I imagine any such system would have a cost in thermo, loading time, and complexity, however, so whatever you end up settling upon, you might want to shove it into a pre-level and a post-level.


[Pre-Level]
- load your progress with stickers/codes
- translate the data the player entered, into score

|
|
level link: score accompanies player to ...
|
|
V

[Main Level]
- score is converted into progress/upgrades upon level init
- player then plays through level
- player reaches a milestone leaving to a save
- progress/upgrades are converted into score

|
|
level link: score accompanies player to ...
|
|
V

[Post-Level]
- translate score into stickers/code
- give out stickers/code to player

This still doesn't answer any questions as to how the stickers and codes would be worked into something elegant, but it opens up possibilities of larger scale.		2011-06-01 21:56:00

Author:
The Manx Turtle
Posts: 50

You know, with the number of things I wanted to retain as a 'save', that method is absolutely brilliant.

Also, for some reason, I've suddenly gotten much better at logic after not using any for 2 months. I've had to remake pretty much everything since I had forgotten how it all worked, but it only took 4 days (which is either awful on my part 2 months ago, or amazing on my part right now, lol).

I've also rethought how I'm going to make the game, since I was over complicating things with logic when I didn't need any at all.

I'm really looking forward to finishing this. Final exams in 3 weeks. I might be able to finish this by the 5th.

I'll try to have a demo out by the end of this weekend (only 1 ship, few weapons, some AI logic, bases, maybe upgrades). It's going to look pretty basic, but with all the things I have planned logic-wise, visuals are my last priority. I do have to study and work though, so it may be pushed back to next weekend.		2011-06-01 22:11:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136

WOW!

I finally got around to rebuilding my level. I scrapped everything I did so far, since it was far too complex, and simplified everything into surprisingly little logic (a single enemy AI and unit + health is only ~60 logic pieces).

I'm about 30% done, and it only took me 5 hours! Somehow I got more done in this one day than I did in all of 2 months before.

I ran a little demo of the game (since the AI can play without real players)... and omg, it's epic. Granted, I only had one weapon type and ship type active, but wow...

I'm pretty sure you're all going to enjoy this quite a lot. RTS mixed with hectic top-down shooter = Awesome! Sprinkle on some TD and RPG elements, and wow, just wow.

I still have to make the skill and upgrade structure, but I have the basic logic done already. Thermo is only 2 segments full (!), but I haven't added many emitters yet.

I think I may add back in all those optional elements, resources, quests, achievement, stat tracking, etc.

I'm excited to make this again. I'll prob be working on it all weekend, expect a demo (or even the full thing) very soon. Don't expect much graphically, since the only material so far is hologram, but hopefully the power of logic will make up for it.

New thread, since this is mostly based on my previous attempts at making this game. New version is much better imo: https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=57738-Intergalactic-War!-%28New-thread-new-game-more-awesome%29&p=863229#post863229 (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=57738-Intergalactic-War%21-%28New-thread-new-game-more-awesome%29&p=863229#post863229)		2011-06-04 05:12:00

Author:
SSTAGG1
Posts: 1136


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