Archive: 9 posts

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I've literally spent everyday for the last month pouring my soul into this completely holo made top down shooter. The ship frickin evolves over time, the visuals are stunning using techniques i've invented myself. It uses allot of emitters running quickly with very short lifespans of the emited objects. the problem is, I've spent all the time in create mode, testing there. recently I've got it to a point i can actually hit it into play mode and have a preview of what it would be like to play from the community. As soon as i went into play mode half of everything dissappeared after about 20 seconds. So i went back into create mode and suddenly every single emitted objects reference 'stays on the thermo!' Ususally an emited object only takes up space while it exists. For some odd reason this has happened and its completely halted my ability to add anything or move forward with what has been my world for the past month. I've even painstakingly grabbed every component of the level and dropped it in a new level and connected it all up again... 4 times. Each time, the thermo will act normally, raising or lowering depending on how heavy the emitions are at that point in the game, but hovering at a threashold non the less. As soon as play mode is entered, from then on, that crator/room's thermo goes awol and smacks itself through the roof within 10/20 seconds of un-pausing. Moving to a new crator fixes the problem... until play mode is entered, even just once for a second, without anything emitting or anything, the thermo will glitch out from then on in that crator. I've even shaved everything down and purely had 3 emmiters running, one with a very quick lifespan object emitting at 0.0, and 2 others emitting at .5 each (infinite lifespan) but they are the enemies, max of 10 from each emitter, plus the projectiles i'm shooting... that 'lite' version hardly scratches the thermo in create mode, until play mode is entered, suddenly the thermo shoots up again as though every emitted object is 'staying' in the level, and not dissapearing within .1 of a second or near that. How the hell do i overcome this? I've seen levels out there with MUCH more going on in them than what i've shaved it down to while debugging so i know its not simply down to the engine treating references differently in play mode. help!?!?!!

2011-02-09 15:54:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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I think the problem could be the emitter with 'emitter time' of 0.0 Theoretically, that would create an infinite number of objects (read: extremely large) in a very short time. Upon returning to create mode, the emitter may temporarily be active upon entering the level, creating the large number of objects. This is simply speculation, but I hope it helps

2011-02-09 16:33:00 Author: Ticklemeemo101 Posts: 22

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the thermo doesn't fly up until i un-pause the level in create mode. The thermo raises per each object emited, regardless of wether said object has dissapeared or not. Wit ha highly restricted amount of emitters in the level, the thermo will rais in steps each time the emmiter triggers the next round of 10 enemies, i can kill them all but the thermo 'stays where it is'. If i move the ship (which has a trail emmited from the back) the thermo raises per each 'unit' of trail emitted... and stays at the point it has raised to, indeffinately... obviously the extremely short lifespan emissions of the trail (.1 sec) have long gone, but their 'thermo reference' remains, obivously the level can only run live for a few seconds until the 'your level has overheated' message appears which obviously grinds everything to a hault. I can even clear everything emitted object from the level, remove the arena, strip everything down and leave only the ship sat in the center of a completely empty room.... the thermo still thinks the room is completely full. Its an obvious glitch. Getting round it though is highly important.

2011-02-09 19:27:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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Try to limit when the emitters are running or the microchips that activate them. For example, if you have your level in sections, try putting sensor switches in each section that activates all the microchips in that area. I also don't think you really need 0.0 frequencies, emitters have a lot more overhead than people give them credit for. I know there are many unique visual effects that can be achieved only by emitting holo with the right tweaks, but see if you can find a similar effect without using 0.0 speed or not using an emitter at all. Other than that, my best advice is to use level links and split the level into multiple parts.

2011-02-09 20:25:00 Author: Foofles Posts: 2278

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Wow, this sounds like a completely new thing..... But emitters emitting at 0.0 emit whenever the space it emits in is open. The instant the space is cleared. If your objects move quickly you get more of them every .1 of a second. Which is too quick to count without computer-aided assistance. That could kill the thermo.... I'm not very good at game engine stuff though..... Hope I helped just a tad

2011-02-09 20:30:00 Author: mutant_red_peas Posts: 516

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Theoretically, that would create an infinite number of objects (read: extremely large) in a very short time. Might be worth knowing that an emitter set to 0.0 is really only set to 0.033 (i.e. 30 emits per second). That is all.

2011-02-10 03:35:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Thanks for the replies so far people. To help understand the situation a bit better, These are the elements of how the game works: - The ship, consists of one main body aspect with (amongst alot of other logic) emmiters on the chip board, the emitters are set to trigger different sized/shaped 'hulls' of different colours set to 'layer' over the ship at different point thresholds, when each hull emits, the other is set to dissapear. (or add to the shape/colour of a previos hull by layering, the actual process is quite complex and state dependent but thats a basic explanation) - The ship also has 5 emmiters linked through AND gates to 5 outputs of a selector and the left stick digital output of the receiving controlitor of the main ship body. the selector's cycle input is linked to a 10 count counter. These emitters are set to run every 0.0 seconds, one is active in each selector output state. This is the ships trail. It changes colour depending on HP state. Giving these emmiters a 0.1 output completely removes the effect of a 'trail', which is also dependent on the speed of movement of the ship (which in turn has been balanced very sensitively with the enemy AI logic in respect to look at rotators and the independent accel/decel speed of local space forward movers, each type of enemy having a different synthetic inertia). All of this is kind of 'in place' and attempting to alter any of it is essentially building the component interaction of all game objects from the ground up again. So as you can see altering emition times is not really possible. - There are also emitters set around the arena on random paths very loosely related in tradjectory to the ships current location. These emitters are set to emmit in bursts of 2 seconds with gaps between bursts altering over time depending on points/time in game (starting with 30 second to a minute gaps, eventually, much later triggering almost constant emission), Differen't emmiters emit at different frequencies and can either emit single enemies or groups of enemies (obviously different emitters triggering residing in the same space on glued holo layers) depending on the type of enemy and/or how much time has passed. - There is a random chance of some enemies to drop a small spinning bit of holo that if flown into triggers a 'shield'. Which is actually in invisible bit of holo set to follow the ship. The bit of holo is two disks overlayed set to spin quite fast in opposite directions with emmiters stuck down in a line from the outside to the inside, triggered very fast in sequence via a sequencer powered by a timer set to count up > down, which runs the sequencer forwards then backwards. The emmiters are set to trigger every 0.1 seconds with a lifespan of .2 seconds. - The entire disk, in itself is emmited via a sensor set to trigger from a tag on the small spinning holo that is 'collected'. The shield emitter is on the ship. - When enough health is lost to trigger the next health state a similar type emmiter disk thing is triggered for .2 seconds around the ship. And again another similar type thing is triggered to emit after the ship has lost its last life and exploded and before the new ship is spawned. Not forgetting the different types of weapons... but you get the idea, right? Lots of emmiters set to run in quick bursts, emitting objects with short lifespans. It all works fine in create mode, if all that has ever been run on that crator is create mode. Is it not right to presume that the thermo should act the same in play mode as in create mode. And not change its behaviour drastically and permantently after 1 single trigger of play mode? Allthough all of the advice on this thread is good for specific situations, non of it seems to be applicable to specifically how my game is set to work. Everything is to case sensitive and dependent on other aspects. I'm pretty certain that what is happening is a glitch with how the engine registers objects in game and 'talks' to the thermo. If a representation of the thermo in create mode is completely seperate from thermo in play mode, what is the point in having a thermo in the first place? NB: Please don't steal my ideas! I have written my inner workings for the purposes of understanding my situation, if you have come across similar findings in your own experimentation then well done, but please don't now go and make a clone of this and claim you've invented it. I have not to this date seen this specific type of 'look' to a game in LBP, as such i am very excited about making this and providing it to the comunity.

2011-02-11 01:48:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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Is there any reason reason that the parts of the ship, besides the trail, have to be emitted so rapidly? But it does sound like there is something real glitchy going on with the way play mode heats it up. Do you have it paused before you go into play mode? Maybe should try publishing it before you try and test it on play mode and just see if it will load. Just a thought...

2011-02-11 03:07:00 Author: Ace29 Posts: 132

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i appologisefor not being clear enough. The hull components stay indefinately.Thtail isthe only part of the ship emitter in a rapid manner. Theeother parts of the ship emit once, andhave an infinite lifespan, only to be destroyed when a new hll isemited to take its place, this timeframe is dependent on how well the player is at retaining a health state (10hits). I've actually got to the bottom of the problem since my last post and all seems well. It appears that if you choose to emit an object by grabbing it from the game world as aposed to from your popit, then copy that emitter a few times, alter the original object, capture and delete it, replace it into the game world, re-select it for emition,remove it again... so on and so forth. Each 'copied' emitter has to keep trying to reference the object through the master emitter they are all copied from. Something odd seems to happen when entering create mode. I'm not quite sure, but i beleive its something along the lines of each copied emitter stops referencing the original object through the emitter they are a copy of and simply makes a new object thats a clone of the object they are referencing each emission. For some reason, as each emitted object is created in such an odd way, basically because the engine is pushed into a state of confusion, the objects reference i believe is treated differently by the engine and slips through the usual process of referencing and de-referencing, causing the thermo to fly up as allthough the objects are physically dissapearing, they are actually not doing so on the code level, i.e. their 'reference' is remaining in the engines render sequence. makes sense to me, i've probably not explained it to well, either way, i've sorted out the issue and am well on my way to getting stuck right back into creating some coolness thanks for the advice where it came people, its always highly appreciated

2011-02-11 15:12:00 Author: Epicurean Dreamer Posts: 224

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