Archive: 29 posts

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So, I just finished my fist big project (not counting previous smaller level attempts) It cost me really lot of time, so I would appreciate any feedback. It is a Real Time Strategy game. I tryed to get close to the standarts as possible. Currently it contains: - 8 types of buildings (+ defense turrets and minefields) - 9 types of units - 3 missions (but on one progressively unlocking map) It is quiet long to finish. And full victory of whole campain may take you even over one hour. - AI oponent (building + attacking) = it is only 1 player level. Not sure what will happen if you bring your friends -D They will probably run there in really weird way. Actually everything should be working fine - just the movement is done little differently due to lack of tag colors. So you have to select destination waypoint. And then sent a unit there. Little bit unonfortable, but I was not able to find better solution. In case anybody has a suggestion how to make the units move more naturally, I would love to hear suggestions and maybe create a better sequel. So the level is here: http://lbp.me/v/xhg8ft And few screenshots for you to get the idea: http://if.lbp.me/img/ft/63f3ace73fbd71a05a7bb7f1ea2ee5f88c73d3dc.jpg http://i1.lbp.me/img/ft/631df127f767cd2e936312a898f20faf52e9f78b.jpg http://i3.lbp.me/img/ft/9f3b9d2309d91c0d47d6291beec8f73a7b2dc7d7.jpg http://ib.lbp.me/img/ft/ddb72fd6052134a3d0810e2932d0ec8f4764493a.jpg http://i6.lbp.me/img/ft/8d651fc52ec0cd3549186b8682917429523403d1.jpg http://i0.lbp.me/img/ft/ec09ebc1727860a2c7e528c89c26c40578648287.jpg http://i6.lbp.me/img/ft/a868333a171e42ef32f4af786e67fa684b827ff2.jpg http://ib.lbp.me/img/ft/8fb76d42c776c8c2378e17fc9dbb57b7616a0259.jpg

2011-02-06 22:52:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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that is so ridicules... In a good way

2011-02-06 23:01:00 Author: dogcity999 Posts: 86

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I'll have to check this out. I am actually in the process of making another RTS level (I was debating between Sackraft and and Little Big Craft, but it looks like my mind has been made up for me). I haven't played the level yet, but are the X's waypoints to send units to? If so, the way I got by that was by dropping tags with your cursor that disappear on arrival of your units. The dropped tags change after one second so that the selected units will follow the new tag, but that newly selected units won't automatically go to that area.

2011-02-07 00:55:00 Author: Unknown User

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Nicko99: I thought about dropping the tags or even changing the colours. But: 1 - If the tag dissapear when your unit arrives - how do you know all units arrived? You know... in case player sent more units at once and some are faster, some are slower. 2 - chaning the color - where will you get enough colors? If Im right, there is just eight of them. In my case I had different colors to recognize: Cursor position, My units, Enemy units, projectiles, AI wayipoints and Supply depo+resources (so Harvesters can go there and back again) = 7 of them. And only one remained for movement. But maybe you are right. Insteed of activating predefined tags I could probably generate the one. And logcik that is deacivating the tag would destroy the current one. That may work even better.

2011-02-07 06:25:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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So based on the feedbacks I will soon republish the level with better controls (lets hope betatesting will be fine): 1 - Place waypoint whereever you want 2 - Use Dpad to move cursor much faster 3 - One button shortcuts to move to your/enemy base 4 - Fixed bug with unlocking new part of the map (I was out of tags, needed to use duplicate one and did not choose the best one :-/) 5 - Intro will be skippable 6 - Tweaked price and recharge time of the satelite strike. So it is usable more often (I was glad if I used it once in a game. That as pitty)

2011-02-07 08:10:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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So the level is republished now. Main change is no predefined waipoint. You place your own. Map is now much cleared. Plus there are some new tweak to the cursor so you can control it much more confortable. http://ib.lbp.me/img/ft/0bbe4faad698548698140ef4c1b79fa583d1b980.jpg http://i3.lbp.me/img/ft/e4368b5f11e1ddcf6a5f965a45366b434105d45c.jpg http://id.lbp.me/img/ft/1bd6b14de02352c6be36c0c704f32337384ff019.jpg http://i4.lbp.me/img/ft/44441d187b5a98e0e95ad7aea83a0a80dc2bdf90.jpg http://ia.lbp.me/img/ft/14aa796a741942c5b9f49d51e93d1bce167188b5.jpg So I hope it will be better now. And someone will even finish it :-D

2011-02-07 10:35:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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Cool, I'll definitely check this out. In return can you give me feedback on my RTS demo level? Turrets - Real Time Strategy (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=47614-Turrets-Real-Time-Strategy&p=760971)

2011-02-07 11:53:00 Author: Unknown User

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Ok. Its in my queue. But I will get to it later this afternoon.

2011-02-07 12:14:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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Miyou95: So I tested your level and gave it a ingame feedback. Just a two questions for you - I though I know the editor pretty well, but probably not. How did you do: 1) Nice looking pop-up help messages? (you know with pictures of buttons and green backgroud) 2) How did you created that blue progress bar showing unit creation? I would love to have this one at my buildings.

2011-02-07 14:38:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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Looks cool, I'll check it out.

2011-02-07 16:11:00 Author: SackRacer77 Posts: 153

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So I made few (lets hope final) updates. Especially first mission is now little faster. So it should not bore players to death before they actually get the full RTS possibilities. Finally started getting more positive feedbacks after that. So lets hope it is even fun now. :-D

2011-02-08 10:52:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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Hello, this is really interesting as I'm trying to create a LBP RTS myself, so I've queued this and will soon try it! I am still in the developing phase, since I've been quite busy, but I may get things going now. If you do not mind, I have a question: How did you implement movement and obstacle avoiding? I am still not content with my movement logic as sometimes units still get stuck!

2011-02-08 15:10:00 Author: Catman87 Posts: 4

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I'm just wondering but there are colors and labels on tags now so technically they could all be the same color and never activate the same thing if you labeled them. Just a thought

2011-02-08 15:18:00 Author: TheSwede Posts: 59

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Catman87: Well its not so deep. There two kind of movement logic. First - simple unit... you mark the destination. Then sent them to it. They will taky direct route. It isup to the player to control them. Second - Harvesters. These units are tricky because these has to work automatically. Still there is one path between resource and supply depo = if more Harvesters are using same resource, they would get stuck in the middle. To solve this I put some randomnes into it. When they crash they wil lstart rotating a little (so they should rotate around themself), they will start randomly changing strenght of the movement. So one will push the other. And the are moving little bit randomly into all four direction. Also then they pick/drop the resource, they immediatelly move little to the side. To increase a change that both harvesters will not share the same path at all. And of course I designed the level n a way, that they won get stuck to the enviromnent. Took me almost one day to tweak. But at the end it is working. Im really looking forward for your level. As I found it is not easy at all! You have to tweak so many little details (that evebody take for granted and does not apprcite them at all), but everybody will complain, if there still be some visible bug :-D Perosnally Im thinking about doing some better sequel. I have lots of ideas for improvements. But it would be hell to change them in this level. It is all emitors emited by amitors in another emitors etc... (worse than inception movie) - some of the object are 7 levels deep. So basically just tweaking one single parametr on the projectile would require remade of all objects and setting their emited locaiton again... and some of them has to have precise location due to some invisible functions. But now when I get some experience, created models (I really hate that) and see it is possible to put into working state. Im thinking to actually start from scrath from the projectiles and rockets again. And really remade all objects with lots of improvements. And then place them into new level. TheSwede: OMG. Really? To tag with same color and different label act as different tag? I have to try that. I was fighting with lack of tags all the time... Till now I thought it is just for me to label what they are for... I have to try this. That could push me to create sequel with much better pathfinding, AI, and basically everythink.

2011-02-08 16:56:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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OMG. So I googled and tag labels can be really used to make infinite amount of separate tags :-/ ****. And I was doing whole level with just 8. So I really need to recreate it. And maybe try som basic pathfinding etc :-D

2011-02-08 17:15:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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So now I really started to planning the sequesl (my noob mistakes in this level are sometimes too big - it will be better t ocreate new level, instead of fixing and updating this one) But ot make it as better as possible, I would like to ask you for your feedbacks and suggestion on this one, please. My list of improvements to the Sackcraft 2 is this at the moment: 1 - Increase speed of the units 2 - Timers over buildings 3 - at least basic pathfinding - for units / for harvesters 4 - default behaviour of the new harvesters = harvest (not waiting for player to sent them harvesting) 5 - modify friction of the object, so they dont tent to stuck at walls etc... 6 - better story 7 - Projectiles - needs to hit and stop in walls (avoid situation when two units can not hit each other until moved) 8 - Completelly get rid of friendly fire (currently it is minimalizied but not working all the time) 9 - tweeak helicopters - too "strong" (not in healt, but speed and firepower are making them only usefull units) 10 - better tutorial - possibility to see full research tree 11 - achievements 12 - Score system based on achievements and not acumulated money 13 - Tweak prices (research facility + satelite) 14 - controls = ability to sent more units to different positions (probably allow player change the cursor color to allow that - blue curos plae blue waypoints. And then blue cursor sends a units it will sent them to blue waypoint. Etc.) 15 - controls - maybe reverse the control scheme (insteed placing wayipoint and then sending units. Use standart select units, then mark the waypoint)? Abylity to select groups of units at once. Not spamming X button to give command one by one. 16 - Improve AI behaviour. (divide the units to groups and use them for different tasks - guard importatnt spots, patrol, cordinate two attacks at once). Tweak the oponent streght. Now is too powerfull but stupid and exploitable. If the player let him to freely build, he can get overpowered. Unfair to players that want to try to bild all buildings/units and use defence strategy for that time. 17 - Ensure the player is not changed in case the unit/building can not be emited. So if you have any other suggestion, please place it here. Even some new cool units would be appreciated. (so far the interesting ones are basically just helicopters/ dudes that can place proximity mines and orbital strike. The rest of them is pretty much the same. Just with different speed/armor/firepower)

2011-02-11 08:19:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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Yup, you have all the basics here, but it's really just the basics. For the sequel, I'd try to spice up the terrain a bit, add some different materials, decorations etc. Pathfinding is also terrible right now, I had my units stuck behind a corner of a building while the enemy was destroying it from the other side (but looks like you're already on it). And maybe it's not that important, but I really hate the name. I'm not too fond of level names that just take an existing name and replace part of it with the work 'sack', but with Warcraft, the essence of the game is in the first part, and that's the part you chose to replace! Is this a level about knitting sackfolk or what? If you want to stick with the reference to Warcraft, maybe tie in the craftworld in stead of sack. For example, War of Craftworld (but people might think it's a reference to World of Warcraft instead). You should also make the units mirror Warcraft, make them human and orc armies, because right now the only similarity between your level and Warcraft (aside from the name) is that they're both RTS. It might be better to experiment with the decorations to see what kind of units you can come up with, and build a new world and story around that. Edit: Oh, and try to implement drag-select of units.

2011-02-11 10:05:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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1) About the terain - Im really terible with designng nice looking levels. So Im glad I did some units and buildins. Plus - if I place one copy of each object on the empty level it tooks up like 85 percent of the thermometer. Considering both sides can build lots of them at once - Im little afraid to put there more decorations and shapes etc than neccessary. Acutally I had even to censore the boss battle a bit, because the game was shouding on me about to complex area and was showing axclamation marks even during gameplay mode. So I would love to have it better looking. Im just afraid it could cause bugs (especially if I will increase complexiity of the logic chips even more) 2) For the name. I was trying to hit mainly on Starcraft - where name Sackcraft is even more similar. I was trying to evoke by the name the genre itself. Maybe I might change it. If I will find some good original name. But for now, I guess it is less of the problems :-D

2011-02-11 10:20:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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Ah. You could try looking at your decorations, materials, objects, see if you can scrap some to reduce the amount of 3D models and textures the game needs to load. Worked in LBP1, probably still valid in LBP2. And if you reuse existing unit decorations to detail the background, the thermo shouldn't go up.

2011-02-11 11:17:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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If will see. Im really not good at artistic work (to be honest I even considered making Geomerty strategy - just to use basic shapes to ilustrate units) Im planning to re-use the models. (but maybe tweak the 3D models - especialy the soldiers does not need to be circle, but can be simplified). And I will use current chips as a templates t ostart better ones. There is really lot of bad design choices and it is easier to rebuild than fix :-/ As I said - at the time of creation I thought I have just 8 tags (not aware of the Labeling). So it forced me to lots of compromises. And I was proud what I did with just 8 of them. Then I found there is basically unlimited supply... :-/ So the waypoint system can be imrpoved (to be able to lead more groups at once), the AI behaviour can be imrpoved (not controllig all the units at once), I hope I will manage even some simple pathfinding system... (predefined paths between important locations like Bases at least,..) Lots of posibilities with unlimited tags. That the little problem with this kind of the editor: 1 - you can not create full buildings without fully working units (to set up emitors) 2 - you can not create the map without finished buildings - otherwise you are not sure how big the base should be, where are the units going to spawn and that place should be clear etc. 3 - and you can not finish units without created map (to tweak pathfinding and AI) 4... skip to 1 :-D You know what I mean. So now I learned a lot and I can try to start from the map... use my buildings as a dummy props. And then with full map I can start creating much improved units and move to the next stages. With my first attempt this was almost impossible.

2011-02-11 11:40:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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I'm fiddling with some really basic pathfinding logic, myself. It's not tremendously easy, and it gets overcomplicated if you breathe wrong near it. :-) I've got a decently functioning simple pathfinder now, though - seeks green tags, avoids blue tags (so obstacles need blue tags on all edges that it might contact). Anyhow, played your level some - the fighting seems a bit random, and the units have bad issues with getting tangled in each other, I noticed. I figure I'll solve that using my pathfinding, myself (am also fiddling with an RTS of some description), basically rigging all units up to be obstacles too. Maybe consider putting turrets on your units, as it have them be able to shoot in other directions than directly ahead? I'm thinking a bolted-on thin piece atop the unit with a look-at rotator set to hunt enemy tags, and then put the weapon emitter code on that.

2011-02-11 12:06:00 Author: Unknown User

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Yes. Im planning improving projectiles in many ways - I hope I manage to make them solid - so detection of the hit should be easier. Also planning to add some spread. To avoid endles duels. Pathfinding is still in my head. Not sure how to do it in a best way. I have the advantage that I will not have any maze. Again simple level with just few junctions and few important places. So Im thinking about useing tags to descripe different important paths. Using 3-4 tags for each path. (so the unit wont follow just one or two, but 4 in sequence - to avoid stucking or movng there and back betwen two tags) So the path would be described like: green1, green2, green3, green4, green1 etc... so when it get to the green4 the next green 1 will be definetly closer than previsou green 1 (and followers follwo nearest tag). And using the selector the unit would switch to the next target each time it gets near the current one. To determine which path to take, I may use another tags to describe the location. (in the middle of each base, one tag) And detect them by cursor and units. So when I will place a waypoint, it will know it is in the enemy base 2 - because this tag is nearest. (all other tags would be out of the radius of the senzors) And when I will select the unit it ill know it is in my base.... (because "my base" tag would be in his radius) By combining these two informations I can switch to the propper slector that will follow the correct tag path. And it will follow it until it get close enough to my waypoint. Then abandon this path and just go to waypoint. Considering maze complexity of planned strategy map - the 6 paths or so should be enough. It wond be some supercomplicated maze. I just need to lead them around some obstacles. And it is not difficult to predict the destination when 95 percent of the players will want to sent their units. It is not perfect at all... will work only is the units are sent from one base to another. And still can cause some bugs (if some buildings are in the way before it gets to the path). But its better than now. To better avoid buildings I might consider switching to Halo Wars base look - so its not scattered buildings. But its like one huge building. Easier to avoid. But I dont like that style. The scattered buildings creates bigger ilusion of the freedom. (even if they work the same way) But I hope I will find some better solution.

2011-02-11 12:46:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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continue... and actually to avoid t obugs, I might do "path selection" manual up to the player. I mean, I can drow them with the invisible hologram. And if you press ome button, they might appear on the map. And you would choose "Ok, now I want to sent my unit this way". And these ways would cover all imporatant routes between bases. So you would still need to manage your attack inside the base. But the movement betwen distant locations would work without stucking at the walls.

2011-02-11 13:19:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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So... so far the sequel development is going prety well. And if the rest will go too, I expect release in one week, probably less. Here is what I managed to improve so far: 1) Controls - you can now sent unit to longer distances without micromanaging every turn. And you can sent more independent groups at once. (you cna also sent whole groups of units by one button combination. No spamming of the X button is needed to select eac unit separately) 2) Bullet management - now each hit is recognized properly. No more bullets passing throuhg the walls or buldings witout hitting the targed. Infinite duels should be gone. The units should not miss by one milimeter and keep shooting forever missing each other. And even in case this will happen, they will swich to alternative behaviour to get out of this glith. Also frienly fire recognition is fixed. In the bigger groups your units can not hurt the collegues in the front lines by mistake. 3) If you are producing/researching you cna se progres bar now. 4) Better behaviour of the harvesters. They are not hitting each other so much. Plus default behaviour is set to harvest. You dont have to sent each new harvester explicitly to the resources. Just pay for them and rest is fully automatic. Also you are able to harves more money in shorter time. Giving you more possibility to build. (of course you will ahve to work a while for a bigger incomes. A the beggining the income is low. But later on it can be quiet huge.) 5) Tweaked the units. Especially the speed. The baic units are faster so the game is not too slow. The stornger units are slower, so they are not everpowered. 6) You can now upgrade al units (giving them better armor) and almost each building can be upgraded (1,2 and in one case 3 times). Giving the game better flow. You dont have strongest units available in the first building. 7) Payments bugs fixed. You wont loose money, in case new object can not be emited. In case of buildings - you are charged only when the structure is created. (in case of minefield, you are charged for each mine separatelly. So if one or two wont be emited due to obstacles - you wont be charged for them). In case of units you still have to be charged in advance. But if the unit can not be emited, it will wait unit you make the free space. You want loose the unit. 8) Fog of war prepared. Undiscovered areas (and areas that you did not visited for some time) will be hidden. 9) One new building. One useless unit was removed. Two units added. Bomb specialist improved (can place more mines anywhere you want) 10) No missions - this might looks like disadvantage. But considerin how many people did not finished the first mission in previsou Sackcraft (god... even I hated that part), I decided to focus straight on the base to base skirmisch gameplay and AI. Insteed of wasting time on some lame cutscenes. (and of course lots of other smaller improvememnt and tweaks - basically each microchip is rebuild and much bigger) So I hope I adressed most of the issues of the first Sackcraft Currently the player part is completelly done. (you can build, produce, research, cntrol,...) - now I need to finish the AI (should be far above the previous version), few test and it should be ready. And I plan to buid some basic webpage with manual. So people wont get lost.

2011-02-18 07:41:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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You should make bullets automaticly die after some time. I've played it before and when the enemy sent me a wave i gathered a huge army of soldiers and sent a few up to the front to stop the enemy. But when there shots missed it went to my guys in the back before they could respond.Plus if you don't like the campaign you could make an option to play skirmish then put in campaign later? BTW Any possible water gameplay? You know units that can only move on water?

2011-02-18 12:20:00 Author: DarrienEven Posts: 217

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DarrienEven: Bullets have lifetime 5 sec (even in the old version). But units are more acurate this time, so this should not be such a problem anymore. But if they miss, the bullets can of course hit the objects further. No water gameplay :-/ At least not this version. Maybe if I will decite to create third RTS level :-D I was considering it. But did not found any waterlike material. Campain... well, anybody who finished firs game probably know, Im not good at storytelling. So I decited to spent time elsewhere. Specifically AI this time. It should be the most major improvement. No more infinite spamming of the units and senting them as one group to the player. Now the oponent will have several predefined bevahiours (each with different goals and preferences). And these will swith after finishing the goal or if some time pass or i some condition occurs. Basically the AI will not be doing all kind of stuff at once. But will be changing the strategy. He might be like "Now I will focus on defence" and he will build more turrets + guards and wil lnot sent any attack. Or he might be like "I will do a synchronized attack" and he will stop all other activities until he performs it. I just want him to give him a little bit of unpredictability. And not just hav one sequencer doing same stuff again and again. And keep the game fair - even player can not buy all the stuff at once. So even the AI will be doing just one kind of a stuff at a time. And speaking of fair - he is of courso not using resources same way as player (would be too dificult to create fair and challenging AI at the same time). But his harvesting equipment is no longer decoration. Attacking his harverster/depos is good strategy will affect him greatly. So be more specific - I jsut finished scripting few events, that if you will sent group of units to attack the oponent, he might (not always) consider that you left you base weakened and sent the counterattack from the other side. (but of course that all Im going to say - dont want to spil all his behaviour. Then it would be too easy or you guys :-D) But dont get to excited. Of course there is so many groups and paths he can use now - Im sure sometimes his units will become stuck too each other etc. :-/ But lets hope the as a whole it will be much better behaviour. So this is a kind of stuff that Im now prefering before lame cutscenes. making jsut a pure skirmish map - with with gameplay on different level.

2011-02-18 16:14:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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**** it. I ran out of thermo. (real problem, because if thermo gets full in paly mode due to emited units, nothink emits anymore...). So after deleting every single uneccessary object and some betatesting it will be probably ready for release. No place to expand the idea anymore :-/

2011-02-19 13:00:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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Darn that stinks. Well I can't wait for it.

2011-02-19 15:13:00 Author: DarrienEven Posts: 217

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Level: http://lbp.me/v/x0x728 I suggest to read control descritpion first: tinyurl.com/sackcraft http://ie.lbp.me/img/ft/f3e331308c1f4cb83f6374a73757aee1f19bf410.jpg More details in level showcase.

2011-02-19 17:30:00 Author: Agarwel Posts: 207

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