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Ethereal Musings

Archive: 29 posts

Okay, so this is a very challenging puzzle level and also my last level that I'm publishing in lbp1. I've spent a lot of time trying to come up with new types of puzzles that take advantage of certain game mechanics found in lbp. The types of puzzles in this level are observational, creative thinking and logical thinking. I tried to keep them varied so you aren't constantly thinking in the same way . Also, the level is very short, that is, if you know all the solutions. The level is short because A. I didn't want the level to feel tedious in length b/c some puzzles take a long time to figure out and B. I ran out of thermo.

I'm sort of worried how the community will respond to this level and I hope it doesn't end up with a low rating like my last pure puzzle level. Oh well, I had a lot of fun coming up with ideas for this level and I hope you enjoy it!
pictures!
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7711/d7d2059917591ad0fa6aaaf.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/271/cfdd20797f6f3b7d4dbe5b2.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3450/ab8f4cb6e4d2eba193ddb7f.jpg
http://lbp.me/v/wgywv6

Big thanks to L1ghtmare and NinjaMicWZ for all of their support and testing.

Edit: So here's a mini guide if you get stuck on a puzzle. I've refrained from adding hints in-game because I feel it ruins the atmosphere. Rather, much like many puzzle games, if you need help, then you better consult an outside resource.

First room - Push the box with the thin layer in front of the gap and jump behind the thin layer. This will cause the thin layer to block your sackboy from shifting forward.

Area 2 - There's a chest with a key to the left of the checkpoint. Once you have the key you enter the next room. In this room there is a locked door to the upper right. In order to unlock it you will need another key. On the left side of the room there is a hint, which is a "painting" of a tree with some arrows. You don't actually need to look at the picture, though. Head back to the tree and investigate by grabbing behind it (because how else are you going to investigate .) You will fall down into a room with a button on the ceiling to the left. Push it and you will see a cut-scene. Exit the room by grabbing the lift and head back to the room where the grabby lift thingy is now activated. Go up to the attic and pull the middle layer box down and then use it to get onto the upper left area. Head left and you'll find a chest with another key in it. Use it to open the locked door.

Area 2 continued - Ok so now that you've opened the door you'll see a short event of the bridge falling and then a balloon flying by. If you head back into the previous room you'll notice that the camera has changed. This reveals the basement area of the room, which is filled with balloons. The only way to get there is by dropping down a layer where the bridge broken and grabbing onto the grassy shtuff! Use the far right balloon to float to the other side of the broken bridge.

Area 3 - Head right and just ignore the stairs going down. Stop at a room with broken stairs. Above you is a noose hanging on the ceiling and below you is a cart with a platform connected to the top and to your right there is the ruins of a bridge with a chest on the far right beneath a tree and sad looking man. Anyway, on the left side of the broken stairs there is some grabby grass stuff that will let you drop down to the 2nd bottom level. Here you'll notice another room below you. Pull the cart so it is positioned in the middle of the gap in the stairs. Use the hole in the wall to the left to get out of the room and head back to the stairs. Use the thin layer to drop to the very bottom level exactly like the first puzzle in the level. Once down there, pull the switch and use the box to get out. Now head to the very top again and pull the noose down and place it on the platform on the cart. Go back to the bottom of the cart and push it so the noose can be used as a swing to get to the chest on the right. With your new found key from the chest, head to the top level and use the platform to jump to the other side and unlock the door.

Area 4 - Final area - Here you'll see very large circles with L shapes on them. If you go to the attic you'll see a diagram of the solution and also if you look on the walls there is a line that can be connected by all the circles. The solution to this puzzle is to grab the circles in theis order - top, left, top, right. There are actually three solutions to the puzzle but this one will end you where the door opens.

Scenic walk to the end - The rest of the level is just short and scenic walk to the scoreboard. There's a mini puzzle to jump up to get some points, though. Stand on the checkpoint and jump to the left and then right, if you did it correctly then you'll be on top of the arches and you can grab the points. Also you'll encounter a grabby swing near the end. If you hold onto it and go as far as possible to the right you'll see a secret area with some points. Use the cannon to launch yourself back if you choose to go there.

I hope you enjoyed my level and I hope this guide was helpful if you were stuck.		2011-01-11 01:52:00

Author:
zynax555
Posts: 170

Hey bud, although I haven't yet been able to finish it yet, got kicked off our connection half way through a minute a go, I've played through (I think) almost all of it. From what I've seen of it, holy cow! It's awesome! I love thinking challenges like this, and I've loved figuring out every puzzle, nearly every part of the environment is used. The scenery in the level is incredible as well! How you used those little bricks to make entire walls, using the greenery stickers, and all of the debris and cracked walls, just looked spot on. I think this is the kind of level LBP needs more of, great work!

Easily deserves :star::star::star::star::star: and a <3		2011-01-11 02:56:00

Author:
Jayhawk_er
Posts: 403

I think this is the kind of level LBP needs more of

My friend, you are preaching indeed. Zynax never ceases to amaze me with his unique style of puzzle making. He took a game mechanic that we all use unaware to the mind and made it into a thinking game. He also coupled that with some of the best crafted invironments in LBP so this level is no slacker in that area. A top notch puzzle and may be one of the best there is.		2011-01-11 15:49:00

Author:
L1GhTmArE
Posts: 519

I must say that this level is very impressive. Everything says quality in this level, from the great choices of materials to the fine detail work. This has to be one of the best puzzle levels in lbp. Definitly :star::star::star::star::star:
congratulations on a masterpiece.		2011-01-12 02:52:00

Author:
Xx_Mr_Orange_xX
Posts: 115

Nice level here. Introduces elements, raises the difficulty the further you progress..etc!
Quality visuals, combined with satisfying puzzles.
Had to replay until I got that perfect score.
5 stars + heart + creator heart if I haven't done so already.		2011-01-12 05:11:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

+this is an amazing looking level. nice attention to detail.
-i don't know what i did to fall down through the bottom of that tree but it wasn't intentional. i wandered for like 10 minutes and started over twice trying to figure out what to do next. don't you think there should be some kind of hint?
+i liked the section after that second building. very cool how you have to climb down the moss

whoops i'm out of time i was reviewing as i played. i'll have another play and edit this post or add a new one when i finish the level.		2011-01-12 18:31:00

Author:
harbingernaut
Posts: 126

There is a hint in the other room. It's a picture of a tree with arrows pointing underneath it. You probably just didn't notice it.2011-01-12 19:21:00

Author:
zynax555
Posts: 170

Sounds great! I will try it asap !2011-01-12 19:25:00

Author:
Closetmonkey_1
Posts: 28

wahhhhh. It's really disheartening to see my level drop to a three star rating. I would at least hope that those who don't have the patience or simply don't like puzzle levels would not rate it low, just because they can't figure it out. I wish that the cool page dwellers would at least appreciate the amount of work I put into this level, I even have a warning in the title and the description that the level is HARD. (I am aware of the minority of players that do at least appreciate the time I've spent.) Although the cool pages ruined my levels rating, it always makes my day to read the comments of those who conquered the puzzles and finished the level, they all seem so genuinely pleased. I guess the cool pages is like a double edged sword, sigh.

Ok, so this whole post has been somewhat off topic and also I'm done complaining. I sort of expected the whole 3 star thing to happen anyway, I just had hope for this level because it held four stars until like 1.2k plays.

Along with any feedback you guys are giving I would really like to know if you think I should continue making relatively challenging puzzle levels in lbp2?

Also thanks for the very positive feedback so far.		2011-01-13 02:18:00

Author:
zynax555
Posts: 170

Yeah, cool pages are in fact a double edged sword.
Anything remotely challenging/unique has a tough road to keep a decent star rating.
I prefer a nice heart : play ratio and good star rating compared to a high volume of plays myself.

I would love you to continue your puzzles in LBP2.
LBP2 has the tools to make great functional puzzles that we can not make currently.
I think you need to decide on your target audience. I'm sure the LBPC minority appreciates your challenging puzzle levels (I certainly enjoy them), but it sounds like you would like a bigger audience?
However that project/level you were telling me about sounds very interesting as well, and could do well on the cool pages if you ease up on any challenging aspects.		2011-01-13 02:44:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

tis lvl wuz 2 hard, mke teh pzzles eeasier, rted 1 stars..

Oh zy, you know I was kidding. I still love this level, and envy your ability to come up with new puzzle ideas everytime. I appreciated your patience when I first played it, and I will play the finsihed version as soon as I get online. 		2011-01-13 02:49:00

Author:
booXely
Posts: 654

These things are really tricky... as Lightmare said there's alot of everyday awareness here exploited and turned into a puzzler... I tried it. I am in no way a shallow-thinker. But I didn't find these puzzles all that rewarding... I mean that, as in-- I felt very often I was out of one and then immediately in another -or- out of the frying pan and into the fire! For me I could have used a little down time...maybe some lite platforming between brain teasers... As is, at one point I felt there were not enough hours in the day... to get through it... at some point (and this is just me talking here)... it ceased to be fun. I didn't get very far.

As I recall I hearted the level, because I really wanted to return-- thinking it may not have been the right time for me to play. I would think 'Cool Pages' may be a tough puzzle for you to solve. Regardless of my first impressions, what I am sure of, is how lovely of a world the level 'Ethereal Musings' creates. For that alone... I wanted to love it.		2011-01-13 03:34:00

Author:
Gravel
Posts: 1308

you're dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. puzzle levels have the odds really stacked against them, even people with patience may not have time. it also seems nearly impossible to gauge what's obvious or logical to another person and what's not. thought process is even more subjective than preference. we don't have the luxury of strategy guides to sling at players either, or the predisposition of players expecting puzzles. there are ZERO puzzles in story mode and it's not in the skillset for most.

in 2 I think a more forgiving thermo and level linking will let you do more stretched out designs to ease the player in with pushing one box, then two etc plus, after awhile people might come to understand that every thing they play might have totally different gameplay than story mode.

i can't hold a good rating either. hardly anyone can. if you do quit making puzzlers then feel free to help me make some in Brain Ape. you're top 3 for puzzles.		2011-01-13 05:03:00

Author:
Unknown User

I didn't get very far.



Just curious, how far did you get? That would be a helpful piece of information for me to know.

Your post along with Ninja's just gave me an idea. I could reward the player with a sticker after they complete an area so they could come back later, if it's just too much. Then again, I could also work on pacing, interspersing some platforming between each puzzle. I can understand how the level feels tedious. Although the tediousness felt is rather subjective.

@Ninja - I don't think I'm going to stop making puzzle levels because, well... someone's gotta do it... that's a terrible reason - AHEM - I enjoy the challenge of thinking up puzzles and I also enjoy inflicting mental pain among my fellow lbpers. I've now accepted the fact that what I like to make is for a small niche audience and I will try not to get discouraged if whatever I make in the future gets rated down. (geeze, that sounds so cheesy to me.)		2011-01-13 05:19:00

Author:
zynax555
Posts: 170

I played this level the other day, Great work :star::star::star::star::star: and <3.
It took me and one other( I know it's 1p rec) close to half an hour to finish it.
I've been trying to think of ways to make puzzles that keep players in an area
for longer so they can appreciate the effort put into the creation and decoration.

oh yeah p.s. I put a comment on there about someone stealing your level. I don't know
now if it was some kind of bug or if the person who posted erased it.
I was browsing "New levels" and saw Limbo pt2 on pg8. So I went to play it and it was
an exact copy of Ethereal Musings!

After I posted in comments on your level I checked my "recently played" list and its not
showing up there. So I searched Limbo 2 and theres a bunch but they're all the actual
Limbo2 copy lv and not E.M. On your level page it still says I last played it yesterday
So I know I wasn't on your actual level.

I dunno, hope it was a bug. Grats on making it to cool pages!

Aloha~		2011-01-13 06:42:00

Author:
Fated For Failure
Posts: 81

I would at least hope that those who don't have the patience or simply don't like puzzle levels would not rate it low, just because they can't figure it out.

when i stopped playing i was kind of annoyed that i couldn't figure out that tree part, but i gave it a 5 star rating anyway because it really is an incredible level so far. i actually can't wait to finish it and i'll probably heart when i do

also about that picture...i noticed it but i didn't see the arrows. you should put something in the description about how the clues are subtle or something. i kind of went into the level assuming it'd be like most levels where the hints are pretty obvious.

anyhoo, will play ASAP! keep up the good work		2011-01-13 07:45:00

Author:
harbingernaut
Posts: 126

I've now accepted the fact that what I like to make is for a small niche audience and I will try not to get discouraged if whatever I make in the future gets rated down.

i feel the same way i like making mini game levels and not everyone likes them. but in my opinion I'm good at it (at least the logic part...)

anyway, i finally got back to it and I've gotta say, i love this level. I'm not a fan of puzzles but this level is just objectively good. that L shaped circle thing puzzle was genius. I'd like to see the logic working behind that.

i don't have much bad to say about the level except that i didn't like your stairs...i don't know how you could improve them but the stairs and the flat boards you have to use to get to lower areas were the most tedious part of the level for me.

i gave it :star::star::star::star::star:/<3

if you want to F4F, play ginormo burger. thanks. and thanks for the masterpiece level		2011-01-14 17:31:00

Author:
harbingernaut
Posts: 126

I play your level and i liked so much, the puzzles are something difficult but interesting, the level is pretty awesome the atmosphere is wonderfull i like the design and the ideas of the game-play, you have a great work here. I would have liked it to be longer but fully understand that the heat does not help much. I have no point in its favor on the other hand I developed ideas you've ever seen and that's always important.

I gave you :star::star::star::star::star:
And i hope you play it my new level and tell me your opinion. Thanks https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=43323-Steam-inc 		2011-01-14 19:21:00

Author:
psyntens
Posts: 562

I do hope you carry on creating challenging puzzle levels like this one. There should be room in LBP for the full range of different game genres and its an art-form you have got down really well! I can understand though that it must seem like a hard road to travel as a creator.

Anyway, I enjoyed Ethereal Musings very much. You managed to create a distinctly otherworldly atmosphere - those strange, slightly haunting statues were a great touch. The buildings were beautifully decorated too and made for a relaxing backdrop for "musing" over the puzzles.

The puzzles themselves were very well executed. As midnight-heist said, you introduced the player to key gameplay elements in solving the puzzles and then built up the difficulty gradually. I'm impressed at how you manage to keep coming up with such good ideas for new puzzles. I particularly liked the idea of having unlock chests which then in turn gave you a key to unlock a door into the next challenge and the big set piece puzzle was very cool.

I don't know whether it was intentional but you had very few points on offer and made the player use platforming skills to get some of them. This gives the level good replay value even once the player has worked out the solution to the puzzles and reached the end of the level. I had to replay 4 times to get a full 110 score (grrr!) as I kept on fluffing that final jump just before the scoreboard!

:star::star::star::star::star: and a heart		2011-01-15 00:11:00

Author:
shropshirelass
Posts: 1455

heh I wish I saw that guide you posted before spending half an hour on the last puzzle! I probably wouldn't have solved the earlier ones if you hadn't shown me the level those many weeks ago either lol. But overall a fantastic looking level, and some of the most clever puzzles I've seen around! Great job, I love how this turned out, and hope people will find the patience to see it through to the end!2011-01-23 08:57:00

Author:
Duffluc
Posts: 402

These things are really tricky... as Lightmare said there's alot of everyday awareness here exploited and turned into a puzzler... I tried it. I am in no way a shallow-thinker. But I didn't find these puzzles all that rewarding... I mean that, as in-- I felt very often I was out of one and then immediately in another -or- out of the frying pan and into the fire! For me I could have used a little down time...maybe some lite platforming between brain teasers... As is, at one point I felt there were not enough hours in the day... to get through it... at some point (and this is just me talking here)... it ceased to be fun. I didn't get very far.

As I recall I hearted the level, because I really wanted to return-- thinking it may not have been the right time for me to play. I would think 'Cool Pages' may be a tough puzzle for you to solve. Regardless of my first impressions, what I am sure of, is how lovely of a world the level 'Ethereal Musings' creates. For that alone... I wanted to love it.

I agree with Gravel on this one. the puzzles were very interesting and unique. but after you finish one you're left with another to complete, almost making it feel like a chore to complete the level. and for me I LOVED your visuals so much that I kept going just so I could see what other buildings and objects you made in this world.

as with gravel I didn't get to far...the only difference is I came here to read the guide to finish...which sucks tbh that I have to resort to a guide to finish the level. but it didn't deter me from trying to complete the level at hand. I finished and was kind of iffed that when you said scenic walk at the ending I was expecting some awesome scenery only to find myself walking on the ceiling of the building housing the scoreboard.

in the end I enjoyed the level and hearted it as it deserved. but I could tell from coming into this thread that it wouldn't meet your expectations with rates.

For one you have to consider most of these gamers don't mind much challenge as long as it's still POSSIBLE for them to beat the level. when your challenges are so difficult that they need to resort to a guide, you're bound to have players lose interest. You also need to consider that not EVERY LBP player has an LBPC account and are not willing to come to the site...and especially they won't go out of their way to use the search function to go through all that work just to end up here to read the guide. So you lose more players interest as well with that. In the end you should be glad that you have the hearts you do and the rating you do.

just for next time you should try to help the player more IN-GAME rather then direct them to a website for help. as If it wasn't for that guide I would have quit mid-game.

I literally couldn't get past the broken bridge and had to come here. and if it wasn't for the guide I wouldn't have known I had to grab those circles to make them move..but even the guide didn't explain to me how to get to the attic to see the solution.

in the end I loved the visuals and the puzzles (no matter the difficulty) but hopefully in your LBP2 levels you'll consider the newbie player who doesn't have an LBPC account or doesn't even want to take the time to visit a website and browse threads for the guide...jus sayin

maybe try what pickled-punk is doing in his deliver me series which is having a "hint bubble" in the level. so you could do something like that which gives off hints and information IN-GAME to help you finish the puzzles...heck even those guys you had standing around could have explained some puzzles and such too.

anyways thats my 4 quarters on my experience in the level.		2011-01-25 04:54:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365

I agree with Gravel on this one. the puzzles were very interesting and unique. but after you finish one you're left with another to complete, almost making it feel like a chore to complete the level. and for me I LOVED your visuals so much that I kept going just so I could see what other buildings and objects you made in this world.

I'm glad the visuals kept you engaged but I'm sensing that you're not a huge puzzle level fan. The whole point of the level is that it was nothing but puzzles, which is a rare occurrence on lbp.


as with gravel I didn't get to far...the only difference is I came here to read the guide to finish...which sucks tbh that I have to resort to a guide to finish the level. but it didn't deter me from trying to complete the level at hand. I finished and was kind of iffed that when you said scenic walk at the ending I was expecting some awesome scenery only to find myself walking on the ceiling of the building housing the scoreboard.

Level overheated and I ran out of time. Though, I personally like the contrast between the empty ceiling and the grand room you swing into.

in the end I enjoyed the level and hearted it as it deserved. but I could tell from coming into this thread that it wouldn't meet your expectations with rates.

Yeah I did whine a bit even though I knew to expect 3 stars. I just had a lot of hope that it might be 4 stars from the way things were going initially


For one you have to consider most of these gamers don't mind much challenge as long as it's still POSSIBLE for them to beat the level. when your challenges are so difficult that they need to resort to a guide, you're bound to have players lose interest. You also need to consider that not EVERY LBP player has an LBPC account and are not willing to come to the site...and especially they won't go out of their way to use the search function to go through all that work just to end up here to read the guide. So you lose more players interest as well with that. In the end you should be glad that you have the hearts you do and the rating you do.

The level was targeted a niche audience who wants a challenging puzzler. I should've been more clear about that and I shouldn't have whined about the low ratings, like I said above. You don't need an LBPC account in order to view this thread btw and I only put the guide up because I believed that the player would feel like it may be too much effort to look it up so either 1. They'll continue to try to figure it out for themselves! or 2. Just quit because this level simply isn't their cup of tea.

just for next time you should try to help the player more IN-GAME rather then direct them to a website for help. as If it wasn't for that guide I would have quit mid-game.
As I explained above.


I literally couldn't get past the broken bridge and had to come here. and if it wasn't for the guide I wouldn't have known I had to grab those circles to make them move..but even the guide didn't explain to me how to get to the attic to see the solution.

The attic is super obvious and not a puzzle to get to. I blame your lack of effort and or observational skills for that. Same with the broken bridge, there were three blatant hints about where to go.

in the end I loved the visuals and the puzzles (no matter the difficulty) but hopefully in your LBP2 levels you'll consider the newbie player who doesn't have an LBPC account or doesn't even want to take the time to visit a website and browse threads for the guide...jus sayin

I'm really glad to hear that you appreciate the level regardless of your difficulties.


maybe try what pickled-punk is doing in his deliver me series which is having a "hint bubble" in the level. so you could do something like that which gives off hints and information IN-GAME to help you finish the puzzles...heck even those guys you had standing around could have explained some puzzles and such too.

I considered it, but decide not to.

anyways thats my 4 quarters on my experience in the level.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll keep it in mind.		2011-01-25 21:42:00

Author:
zynax555
Posts: 170

I played this level in LBP2, and it is a puzzling pleasure.

VISUALS:
The usage of materials and the detail of the buildings looked spectacular. The stars in the background are breathtaking too.

SOUND:
The "Wise Owl" interactive music is a nice touch to this level, and the sound effects worked well too.

GAMEPLAY:
The tricky puzzles are ingenious. It is always your style that makes us figure out how to get unstuck. This is by far your trickiest level yet.

OVERALL:
It is one of your best levels yet, and I completed this level with no problems. A 'yeah' vote, a heart, and a positive review.		2011-01-27 01:02:00

Author:
JustinArt
Posts: 1314

How come some people need hints in games and some people don't?2011-01-27 09:15:00

Author:
Unknown User

Played.
Liked.
Reviewed.

Excellent work!		2011-02-16 03:36:00

Author:
Enjayeff
Posts: 5

Mind=Blown

Loved it, absolutely loved it.		2011-02-27 21:15:00

Author:
Phazerz123
Posts: 440

Hello Zynax555,

As you can see, this will be first post on LBPcentral, and the whole reason for acquiring this account was just to comment on this level. Let me start by saying the artistic direction is unparalleled to any of the community levels I have come across, including the MM picks, and I want to express my appreciation to the attention to detail and time you spent in designing this world. Everything felt as if they belonged in the same theme, didn't exhibit any bugs I see in other levels, or have any of those nasty places with no escape.

However I almost didn't get to enjoy all of this carefully crafted labor of love because of the first puzzle. I confess I love challenging puzzles, but there is a fine line between creative difficultly and difficulty for the sake of difficulty. The challenge wasn't fun, and when I did finally figure out how to move past it, it the solution struck me as an annoying exploit of the game's engine and completely robbed me of that rewarding sense of accomplishment.

As I said when I started, I look forward to your future creations, and I think you have a good path to MM status before you. I am just commenting in hopes that your next puzzle adventures use more logic driven challenges, without resorting to questionable tricks such as the grab and drop.

-Avotas1		2011-06-05 05:14:00

Author:
Unknown User

Heh, I'm glad you enjoyed the visuals. In my mind I consider the first puzzle a "creative thinking" puzzle, which requires a fair amount of knowledge about the intricacies of lbp. I wouldn't quite say I'm exploiting the game engine, but I'm definitely making the player have to manipulate it in an unorthodox fashion. I don't know if you finished the level but the rest of the puzzles are based firmly on logical thinking and careful examination of your surroundings.2011-06-05 22:05:00

Author:
zynax555
Posts: 170

Hello Zynax555,

Yes I did finish the rest of the puzzles.

Something of note. On puzzle two, before getting the key, I was jumping around the lowest part with the collapsed bridge and found a weird bit of anti-gravity. I was able to float up and land on the ledge without problem. I was unable to reproduce it, but it was present. Just a heads up.

-Avotas1		2011-06-06 04:08:00

Author:
Unknown User


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