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Gaming Addicts Beware!!

Archive: 54 posts

It's no secret to those who know me here or in real life that I think that virtual rewards like trophies or pins are stupid and meaningless. There's a good reason for that, and one that I think this article puts to you more concisely than I ever could, with lots of proof and examples to back it up. It's something I've known for years now, and have tried to explain many times... often without success.

Game addicts, it's time you knew the truth about what makes you crave that next trophy or level-up and why. It's also time you got some sense knocked into you and take your life back.

Pay close attention and pass this article along to anyone you know who is a gaming addict. It's your last chance to do one good deed in 2010!

I've copied the original article and re-posted it here with a few offensive words changed.

5 Creepy Ways Video Games Are Trying to Get You Addicted
By David Wong Mar 08, 2010

So, the headlines say somebody else has died due to video game addiction. Yes, it's Korea again. What the heck? Look, I'm not saying video games are heroin. I totally get that the victims had other stuff going on in their lives. But, half of you reading this know a World of Warcraft addict and experts say video game addiction is a thing. So here's the big question: Are some games intentionally designed to keep you compulsively playing, even when you're not enjoying it? Oh, hell yes. And their methods are downright creepy.

#5.Putting You in a Skinner Box.
If you've ever been addicted to a game or known someone who was, this article is really freaking disturbing. It's written by a games researcher at Microsoft on how to make video games that hook players, whether they like it or not. He has a doctorate in behavioral and brain sciences. Quote:"Each contingency is an arrangement of time, activity, and reward, and there are an infinite number of ways these elements can be combined to produce the pattern of activity you want from your players." Notice his article does not contain the words "fun" or "enjoyment." That's not his field. Instead it's "the pattern of activity you want." At this point, younger gamers will raise their arms above their head, leaving them vulnerable.

His theories are based around the work of BF Skinner, who discovered you could control behavior by training subjects with simple stimulus and reward. He invented the "Skinner Box," a cage containing a small animal that, for instance, presses a lever to get food pellets. Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box.This sort of thing caused games researcher Nick Yee to once call Everquesta "Virtual Skinner Box."So What's The Problem? Gaming has changed. It used to be that once they sold us a $50 game, they didn't particularly care how long we played. The big thing was making sure we liked it enough to buy the next one. But the industry is moving toward subscription-based games like MMO's that need the subject to keep playing--and paying--until the sun goes supernova.

Now, there's no way they can create enough exploration or story to keep you playing for thousands of hours, so they had to change the mechanics of the game, so players would instead keep doing the same actions over and over and over, whether they liked it or not. So game developers turned to Skinner's techniques. This is a big source of controversy in the world of game design right now. Braid creator Jonathan Blow said Skinnerian game mechanics are a form of "exploitation." It's not that these games can't be fun. But they're designed to keep gamers subscribing during the periods when it's not fun, locking them into a repetitive slog using Skinner's manipulative system of carefully scheduled rewards. Why would this work, when the "rewards" are just digital objects that don't actually exist? Well...

#4 Creating Virtual Food Pellets For You To Eat
Most addiction-based game elements are based on this fact: Your brain treats items and goods in the video game world as if they are real. Because they are. People scoff at this idea all the time ("You spent all that time working for a sword that doesn't even exist?") and those people are stupid. If it takes time, effort and skill to obtain an item, that item has value, whether it's made of diamonds, binary code or beef jerky. I have easily 500 hours in Zelda bottles.That's why the highest court in South Korea ruled that virtual goods are to be legally treated the same as real goods. And virtual goods are now a $5 billion industry worldwide. There's nothing crazy about it. After all, people pay thousands of dollars for diamonds, even though diamonds do nothing but look pretty. A video game suit of armor looks pretty and protects you from video game orcs. In both cases you're paying for an idea.

So What's The Problem?

Of course, virtually every game of the last 25 years has included items you can collect in the course of defeating the game--there's nothing new or evil about that. But because gamers regard in-game items as real and valuable on their own, addiction-based games send you running around endlessly collecting them even if they have nothing to do with the game's objective. It is very much intentional on the developers' part, an appeal to our natural hoarding and gathering instincts, collecting for the sake of collecting. It works, too, just ask the guy who kept collecting items even while naked boobies sat just feet away from him. Naked boobies! As the article from the Microsoft guy proves, developers know they're using these objects as pellets in a Skinner box. At that point it's all about...

#3. Making You Press the Lever
So picture the rat in his box. Or, since I'm one of these gamers and don't like to think of myself as a rat, picture an adorable hamster. Maybe he can talk, and is voiced by Chris Rock. If you want to make him press the lever as fast as possible, how would you do it? Not by giving him a pellet with every press--he'll soon relax, knowing the pellets are there when he needs them. No, the best way is to set up the machine so that it drops the pellets at random intervals of lever pressing. He'll soon start pumping that thing as fast as he can. Experiments prove it. They call these "Variable Ratio Rewards" in Skinner land and this is the reason many enemies "drop" valuable items totally at random in WoW. This is addictive in exactly the same way a slot machine is addictive. You can't quit now because the very next onecould be a winner. Or the next. Or the next.

The Chinese MMO ZT Online has the most devious implementation of this I've ever seen. The game is full of these treasure chests that may or may not contain a random item and to open them, you need a key. How do you get the keys? Why, you buy them with real-world money, of course. Like coins in a slot machine. Wait, that's not the best part. ZT Online does something even the casinos never dreamed up: They award a special item at the end of the day to the player who opens the most chests! Now, in addition to the gambling element, you have thousands of players in competition with each other, to see who can be the most obsessive about opening the chests. One woman tells of how she spent her entire evening opening chests--over a thousand--to try to win the daily prize. She didn't. There was always someone else more obsessed. So What's The Problem? Are you picturing her sitting there, watching her little character in front of the chest, clicking dialogue boxes over and over, watching the same animation over and over, for hour after hour? If you didn't know any better, you'd think she had a crippling mental illness. How could she possibly get from her rational self to that Rain Man-esque compulsion? BF Skinner knew. He called that training process "shaping." Little rewards, step by step, like links in a chain. In WoW you decide you want the super cool Tier 10 armor. You need five separate pieces. To get the full set, you need more than 400 Frost Emblems, which are earned a couple at a time, from certain enemies. Then you need to upgrade each piece of armor with Marks of Sanctification. Then again with HeroicMarks of Sanctification. To get all that you must re-run repetitive missions and sit, clicking your mouse, for days and days and days. "Real Money" be ****ed. Once it gets to that point, can you even call that activity a "game" anymore? It's more like scratching a rash. And it gets worse...

#2. Keeping You Pressing It... Forever.
Now, the big difference between our Skinner box hamster and a real human is that we humans can get our pellets elsewhere. If a game really was just nothing but clicking a box for random rewards, we'd eventually drop it to play some other game. Humans need a long-term goal to keep us going, and the world of addictive gaming has got this down to a science. Techniques include...
Easing Them In: First, set up the "pellets" so that they come fast at first, and then slower and slower as time goes on. This is why they make it very easy to earn rewards (or level up) in the beginning of an MMO, but then the time and effort between levels increases exponentially. Once the gamer has experienced the rush of leveling up early, the delayed gratification actually increases the pleasure of the later levels. That video game behavior expert at Microsoft found that gamers play more and more frantically as they approach a new level.

Eliminating Stopping Points:
The easiest way is to just put save points far apart, or engage the player in long missions (like WoW raids) that, once started, are difficult to get out of without losing progress. But that can be frustrating for gamers, so you can take the opposite approach of a game like New Super Mario Bros. Wii, where you make the levels really short so it's like eating potato chips. They're so small on their own that it doesn't take much convincing to get the player to grab another one, and soon they've eaten the whole bag. By the way, this is the same reason a person who wouldn't normally read a 3,000-word article on the Internet will happily read it if it's split up into list form. Are you ignoring boobies to read this? I've done my job!

Play It Or Lose It:
This is the real jerk move. Why reward the hamster for pressing the lever? Why not simply set it up so that when he fails to press it, we punish him? Behaviorists call this "avoidance." They set the cage up so that it gives the animal an electric shock every 30 seconds unlessit hits the lever. It learns very very fast to stay on the lever, all the time, hitting it over and over. Forever. Why is your mom obsessively harvesting her crops in Farmville? Because they wither and rot if she doesn't. In Ultima Online, your house or castle would start to decay if you didn't return to it regularly. In Animal Crossing, the town grows over with weeds and your virtual house becomes infested with cockroaches if you don't log in often enough. It's the crown jewel of game programming jerks--keep the player clicking and clicking and clicking just to avoid losing the stuff they worked so hard to get.
All Of the Above: Each of those techniques has a downside and to get the ultimate addictive game, you combine as many as possible, along with the "random drop" gambling element mentioned before (count how many of these techniques are in WoW). They get the hamster running back and forth from one lever to another to another.

So What's The Problem? We asked earlier if the item collection via obsessive clicking could be called a "game." So that raises the question: What is a game? Well, we humans play games because there is a basic satisfaction in mastering a skill, even if it's a pointless one in terms of our overall life goals. It helps us develop our brains (especially as children) and to test ourselves without serious consequences if we fail. This is why our brains reward us with the sensation we call "fun" when we do it. Hell, even dolphins do it. This is why I haven't included games like Guitar Heroin this article. They're addictive, sure, but in a way everybody understands. It's perfectly natural to enjoy getting good at something. Likewise, competitive games like Modern Warfare 2 are just sports for people who lack athleticism. There's no mystery there; everybody likes to win. But these "hit the lever until you pass out from starvation" gaming elements stray into a different area completely. As others have pointed out, the point is to keep you playing long after you've mastered the skills, long after you've wrung the last real novel experience from it. You can't come up with a definition of "fun" that encompasses the activity of clicking a picture of a treasure chest with your mouse a thousand times. This is why some writers blasted Blizzard when WoW introduced a new "achievement" system a couple of years ago. These are rewards tied to performing random pointless tasks, over and over again (such as, fishing until you catch a thousand fish). No new content, no element of practice, or discovery, or mastery was included. Just a virtual treadmill. Or a hamster wheel.

Of course, game developers (and various commenters, I'm sure) would correctly point out that nobody is making the players do it. Why would humans voluntarily put themselves in laboratory hamster mode? Well, it's all about...

#1.Getting You To Call the Skinner Box Home
Do you like your job? Considering half of you are reading this at work, I'm going to guess no. And that brings us to the one thing that makes gaming addiction--and addiction in general--so incredibly hard to beat. As shocking as this sounds, a whole lot of the "guy who failed all of his classes because he was playing WoW all the time" horror stories are really just about a dude who simply didn't like his classes very much. This was never some dystopian mind control scheme by Blizzard. The games just filled a void. Why do so many of us have that void? Because according to everything expert Malcolm Gladwell, to be satisfied with your job you need three things, and I bet most of you don't even have two of them: Autonomy (that is, you have some say in what you do day to day);Complexity (so it's not mind-numbing repetition);Connection Between Effort and Reward (i.e. you actually see the awesome results of your hard work).

Most people, particularly in the young gamer demographics, don't have this in their jobs or in any aspect of their everyday lives. But the most addictive video games are specifically geared to give us all three... or at least the illusion of all three.
Autonomy: You pick your quests, or which Farmvillecrops to plant. Hell, you even pick your own body, species and talents.
Complexity: Players will do monotonous grinding specifically because it doesn't feel like grinding. Remember the complicated Tier Armor/Frost Emblem dance that kept our gamer clicking earlier.
Connection Between Effort and Reward: This is the big one. When you level up in WoW a freaking plume of golden light shoots out of your body. This is what most of us don't get in everyday life--quick, tangible rewards. It's less about instant gratification and more about a freaking sense of accomplishment. How much harder would we work at the office if we got this, and could measure our progress toward it? The beauty of it is it lets games use the tedium to their advantage. As we discussed elsewhere, there's a "work to earn the right to play" aspect of World of Warcraft, where you grind or "farm" for gold for the right to do the cool stuff later. The tedious nature of the farming actually adds to the sense of accomplishment later. And it also helps squash any sense of guilt you might have had about neglecting school, work or household chores to play the game. After all, you did your chores--the 12 hours you spent farming for gold last Tuesday was less fun than mowing the lawn. Now it's time for fun. So What's The Problem? Video game designer Erin Hoffman said it perfectly: "Addiction is not about what you DO, but what you DON'T DO because of the replacement of the addictive behavior." She was talking about how the attraction of a simple flash game like Bejeweled depends entirely on how badly you want to avoid doing the work you have open in the other window.

The terrible truth is that a whole lot of us begged for a Skinner Box we could crawl into, because the real world's system of rewards is so much more slow and cruel than we expected it to be. In that, gaming is no different from other forms of mental escape, from sports fandom to moonshine. The danger lies in the fact that these games have become so incredibly efficient at delivering the sense of accomplishment that people used to get from their education or career. We're not saying gaming will ruin the world, or that gaming addiction will be a scourge on youth the way crack ruined the inner cities in the 90s. But we may wind up with a generation of dudes working at Starbucks when they had the brains and talent for so much more. They're dissatisfied with their lives because they wasted their 20s playing video games, and will escape their dissatisfaction by playing more video games. Rinse, repeat. And let's face it; if you think WoW is addictive, wait until you see the games they're making 10 years from now. They're only getting better at what they do.

2010-12-29 02:37:00

Author:
Rustbukkit

Posts: 1737

You may want to put a warning as the above link may be inappropriate for younger audiences.

As soon as I'm done reading I may post something relevant to the topic...

2010-12-29 03:22:00

Author:
warlord_evil

Posts: 4193

Yeah I saw some unfriendly stuff in that thread thar.

But yeah thanks for showing me this. I am not a game addict to the point of having an obsession with any game but I do have a strong social circle in LittleBigPlanet that I would rather not do without.

2010-12-29 05:16:00

Author:
AssassinatorRFC

Posts: 715

Interesting article.. hopefully the "Play, Create, Share" method will be a little bit more out of range of the Skinner Box method.
What's that? LBP2 has pins now? GOGOGOGO.

Good find though Rustbukkit.

2010-12-29 05:29:00

Author:
Cheddars

Posts: 447

Oops! Sorry folks, was a bit tired when I originally posted the article and completely missed a few key cuss words in it. Words I use on a daily basis so probably missed them because of that. I'm currently copying the article and removing/changing any offensive words to make it more LBP friendly. Thanks for pointing that out Warlord and Assassinator.

2010-12-29 05:30:00

Author:
Rustbukkit

Posts: 1737

I started off smoking some Mega Drive moved on to snorting N64 now I'm injecting PS3 and doing unspeakable things in dark allyways for ?5 to score my next hit.

2010-12-29 12:42:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

I have also referenced this article in my own "Bobby kotick is the devil " thread as an illustration of Activisions ruthless marketing strategy.
And was collectively told to "Shut it!" as most people like the addictive elements they put into games.

I mean, all of the game elements that they added to the FPS genre for Borderlands are listed in that article as "creepy" - and Borderlands for me & my Bro is like gaming Crack, we both acknowledge we are addicted. But we also find it some of the most satisfying gaming on this current generation of console. It's almost like they tailor made a game for us.

A game with none of the elements listed in that article would probably get very boring, very quickly.

These addictive elements are only a problem for an extreme minority of gamers, who have problems with their addictive personality... if it wasn't games then they'd probably be addicted to something else.
The VAST majority of gamers enjoy these 'tricks'.

2010-12-29 12:58:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

....yeah, I know...and i'm ok with it.

You know Rust, you're like one of those religious (or atheist) people that try to push their beliefs onto others without trying to accept other's beliefs at all.

Look, I don't mind if you don't like trophies or whatnot, its fine and perfectly normal, sme people do, some people don't...but do you HAVE to keep bugging people to believe what you believe, to like what you like, and to think how you think?

People know this most of the time, and they don't care, and if they enjoy it, why should you care or want to take that away from them?
Is it really your place to tell others what to want and value?
No, it isn't, its theirs, and if they wanna enjoy a digital nothing...well let them, ts not like it harms you at all, or like your life's gonna be different wether they do or not, is it?

Sure, it has no "real" value, most understand that, but what if they just see it as "side quests" for the game?
What if they just have them to show their friends how far they've gone in the game?
What if they ust like it because they do?

Is that so wrong?

So please, could people stop trying to convince people to think exactly as they do and let them be?
If they're happy, does i make a difference?

(Also, I recall reading from "Cracked.com" and not sure if that's where it originated, but if it was, I wouldn't call it the best source for a serious argument tbh.)

2010-12-29 13:26:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

There's a very interesting TED talk on this exact subject - and goes to some interesting places on "The Future of Gaming";

Regarding "The Meta-Game";
Just now the "Meta-Game" is the trophies or Achievements you unlock while playing various different games and this ups your "gamer level" or "gamer score";
They noticed how they could affect gamers behaviour by offering these *meaningless* rewards for specific behaviour - stuff like "Play through level X using only Weapon Y" - giving you 'extra' things to play for, where normally you would have just played through once and moved on, now you are encouraged to go back and play again but with a slightly different challenge.

I used to do this myself, well before the "MetaGame" era - for instance in Elite, I made it my goal to buy the ship with the largest cargo hold in the game (can hold 1000's of tons) , and then to fill the whole cargo hold with precious gems (which weigh a gram - and you only harvest a very tiny amount for each system you visit);
I never did complete my 'goal', but did sink many hours of my childhood into trying to achieve it - and have fond and enduring memories because of it.

I also agree that the new "MetaGame" has fundamentally changed the way we enjoy games - I have found myself playing games that I'm not enjoying purely because there is some 'achievement' waiting for me at the end. You could view this two ways - Negatively: Why would you play a game you are not enjoying?; or Positively: You played a game you would not otherwise have played.

In the end it's down to the individuals perception wether something is "worth" something. For instance, I have one real-life friend, also an avid gamer - who has a MUCH higher PSN gamer level than I do, and started bragging about it - but because I have more Platinum trophies than him, I am the one who gets to brag. This has given my Platinum trophies a 'real-world' use & value.

Participate in the MetaGame - or Don't participate - the choice is yours

2010-12-29 13:46:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

I really, really want to give a long rant to defend my trophy whoredom, but I can't come up with anything better than what Silver said.

2010-12-29 14:02:00

Author:
Voltergeist

Posts: 1702

Ah-HA;
It wasn;t a TED talk, but a DICE talk.
Also in attendance for this talk was LBP's own Alex Evans.

Give it a listen, some very interesting ideas here;
http://g4tv.com/videos/44277/DICE-2010-Design-Outside-the-Box-Presentation/

2010-12-29 14:12:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

This is the exact reason that i only play LittleBigPlanet and Burnout - i dont get addicted to finding a new carsimply because they are few and far between and i know that when i see them i can easily beat them and earn the car for myself.
Im sure that if i tried WoW or restarted my old dusty corpse of a Runescape account that i would get hooked like anyone else, i was just lucky enough to read all these scare stories before i decided to pick up a games controller, and was lucky enough to have made wise choices (so far).

Also there was a very interesting Panorama episode about this, anyone in the UK can find it on BBC iPlayer but im not sure if non-Ukers can use it.

2010-12-29 14:26:00

Author:
Skalio-

Posts: 920

It's kind of weird though,
Once I had 100% LBP and got the platinum trophy, it did seem that there was "something" missing, but I couldn;t really put my finger on it.

Then when I got into the BETA I nearly got high off the endorphins released when I was collecting all of these new Prize bubbles - because new prize bubbles had become so rare in LBP (only aquiring them when a new bit of DLC came out);

The METAGAME has definately changed "the game" - for better & for worse.

2010-12-29 14:37:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

lucky for me, aswelll as being a latecomer to LBP (only got a PS3 in 2009) i recently made a new account so i still need to get the 4 player prizes and Ace serpents shrine

so for the minute i am still enjoying the fruits of LBP1, not to mention the fact that i havent 100%any of my DLC

2010-12-29 14:45:00

Author:
Skalio-

Posts: 920

Also there was a very interesting Panorama episode about this, anyone in the UK can find it on BBC iPlayer but im not sure if non-Ukers can use it.

I must say, I found the panorama episode to be pretty boring TBH. Probably because it was too short to actually go into any depth of issues involved and had no insight into... well anything really.

Also, hasn't the term "metagame" got far to many meanings now as to make it unusable?

2010-12-29 15:14:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

Also, hasn't the term "metagame" got far to many meanings now as to make it unusable?

Well, calling it "The Game of Life" is just as confusing

"Metagame" Wiki Definition: In simple terms, using out-of-game information, or resources, to affect one's in-game decisions. ;

I think that fits, especially when in context.

But anyone interested in these topics, really should watch this talk (http://g4tv.com/videos/44277/DICE-2010-Design-Outside-the-Box-Presentation/)

2010-12-29 15:49:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

Tbh The thing is That games like lbp You cant get addicted to some will drop out after minutes and find it uninteresting others will Spur they way on and have the time of there lives...Um to say.

Ever since video games Have been around they've all ways had bad press not really Going on to tell the full story and both negative and positive aspects.Apparently Scientists have found that People can become addictive...That's a load of hoohaa Its the players decision to stop. Like me i love lbp But i can say just stop.

Well if people cant say stop...
1. There problem is they haven't seen the sunlight in a long while
2. There a vampire
3. Or they actually need to turn there games console off and take a walk

2010-12-29 16:33:00

Author:
Sim725

Posts: 247

2010-12-29 17:14:00

Author:
Unknown User

Not that it bothers me, but video game addiction is real. And it feels so good.

2010-12-29 17:29:00

Author:
Spider-Jew

Posts: 1090

I know several real life friends who used to be very social people with excellent social skills and had large social groups who I've seen get sucked in to WoW and other virtual reward specific games. It's very sad. One of these people has become so engulfed that other than going to work, he never leaves the house now. He's even resorted to ordering his groceries online, and the grocery store is only blocks from his house. I've even heard from a friend that he doesn't leave his gaming chair during raids, and resorts to relieving himself into empty coke bottles. Very sad.

2010-12-29 17:48:00

Author:
Rustbukkit

Posts: 1737

I'm just gonna slide in here and say, 'Jedem das Seine'. To each his own.

Also, I'm in the middle of Video Game Addiction. I like to get trophies and whatnot, but I still have a healthy social life. I just feel the need to have that little pixel space in my PlayStation Network profile to be filled with trophies to show off how 1337 I am, and that I can kill 7 chickens in 10 seconds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5wFE7yZmt0)

2010-12-29 23:39:00

Author:
Unknown User

It seems to me most people fall victim to video game addiction due to real life problems, and thus take comfort in what the video game provides. It distracts them from the situations their lives brings. It is quite sad most video game companies exploit that fact.

EDIT: Removed the mini-rant I had there as it seemed a little mean.

2010-12-30 00:15:00

Author:
Testudini

Posts: 3262

/Clay's mini-rant here/

And he's punny to boot.

2010-12-30 00:21:00

Author:
Unknown User

Fighting.... Less of it please, take the off-topic and pointless bickering elsewhere or the banhammer comes out. That goes to everyone involved, no matter how righteous you may feel about the whole thing.

Also, general note to all: prefixing your posts with 'i'm in a bad mood'.... not such a good idea and excuses nothing. You always have the choice to not post.

2010-12-30 00:28:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

(Also, I recall reading from "Cracked.com" and not sure if that's where it originated, but if it was, I wouldn't call it the best source for a serious argument tbh.)

True enough, but if you read the article on the site (don't link to it--the site isn't especially family-friendly), you'll see that he's provided links to back up his claims, so that you can check out what he says and decide for yourself whether you come to the same conclusion.

As for gaming addiction, it's as real as any other behavioral addiction. I got addicted to an MMORPG (which is the kind of game that the article focuses on) way back before Evercrack came out and it was pretty much my entire life for a while. Friends would come over and I'd ignore them the best I could while continuing to play the game. It was downright pathetic, though fortunately I never got quite this (http://kotaku.com/5384643/i-kept-playing--the-costs-of-my-gaming-addiction) bad.

I too noticed a similarity between the achievements/trophies and the addictive aspects mentioned in the article, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're exactly the same thing. Theoretically trophies are unique (meaning you have to achieve different objectives for each of them) rather than the same "push button, receive food" (so it's more like "push the other button now, receive food"). Trophies tend to require at least some sort of skill to get... well... some of them do anyway. But the biggest difference: eventually you run out of trophies you can get.

2010-12-30 15:46:00

Author:
Sehven

Posts: 2188

I wouldn't blame Everquest, or the Internet for that fellow on Kotakus addiction problem.
He only has himself to blame. No-one else.

It's far easier for people like that to attribute the fact their lives have gone down the pan to a single "evil" - that could be a video game, alcohol or crack cocain - rather than take any responsibility for their own actions and decisions.

No-one ever forced him to play EverQuest.

2010-12-30 16:03:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

I'm pretty sure the Kotaku guy said that he had nobody to blame but himself (I'd have to read it again to be sure and I just don't care that much right now). While I agree that everybody is responsible for their own actions, there are a lot of comments about personal responsibility whose sole purpose is to excuse others of their responsibility.

Example: a man is struggling to keep control of his... urges. He wants to be faithful to his wife and family, but he's addicted to.... stuff with an internet connection that we can't really talk about here. He's doing alright resisting it for a while but then he's shopping at the mall and an attractive young girl walks by wearing extremely provocative clothing. It gets his blood pumping and he suddenly finds it much more difficult to resist his urges. If he does something he'll regret, then he's definitely to blame... but was it really fair for that girl to put him in that position? Was she within her rights to dress as she pleases? Of course. Still, there's a difference between having a right and being right. While I wouldn't go around persecuting girls in provocative clothing, I feel that, in addition to being demeaning to the girl herself, it's unfair for her to provoke others' emotions that way. (If anybody is wondering, yes I like girls and I'm a bit of a hypocrite (http://thewanderingslacker.deviantart.com/gallery/)).

I'm bordering on being off-topic here, but my point is that if game designers knowingly add things into their games to make them addictive/more addictive, then they share at least some of the blame for those who get addicted. Obviously, though, the person with the most responsibility is the addict himself (since the mall is known to be a place where young girls frolic in provocative clothing, that guy probably shouldn't have gone there). Anyway, I think RB's post was meant more as a warning against getting addicted than it was an accusation against the gaming industry.

2010-12-30 16:56:00

Author:
Sehven

Posts: 2188

Anyway, I think RB's post was meant more as a warning against getting addicted than it was an accusation against the gaming industry.

This ^^. Though I do put much of the blame on certain companies that use the methods involved in an attempt to keep players "hooked".

Certainly I wasn't accusing anyone here of being an addict, but I wouldn't be surprised there a few members here who fall into the category given the large number of members on this forum. Nor was I referring directly to LBP as being an addictive game (though, admittedly... creating in it is for me somewhat of an addictive problem these days), which is why I put this in the General Gaming section... and not in one to do with LBP itself. As I've just stated, create mode is a bit of an addiction for me and something I've been struggling with these past few months. I have an addictive personality to begin with. I've been hooked on drugs in the past, and have been an alcoholic much of my life. Even though I've been sober for 10 months now, I'm still an alcoholic at heart and have to be very careful and resist my urges. Some of you may be surprised at my candor, but it's actually quite easy for me to admit my downfalls and illnesses and talk about them openly... especially if it's to help make a point or help someone else out who may be suffering from addiction.

The past few months have been very difficult for me. Work in my field is hard to find right now in my city. Being out of work, I now share an apartment with 2 other roommates... something I've not had to do in years but am now forced into because of tough economic times. Normally, I'd have my own 2 bedroom apt. with one room solely dedicated as my studio to working on props, models, costumes, makeup, painting, music, etc. and have a place to satiate my creative appetite. Not having that luxury, I've found some solace in LBP's create mode. The problem is, that I'm now spending more time virtually creating than I would in the real world. To be honest, it's become a problem as I no longer have much drive to keep going out and looking for a job.... and it's affected my social life on one or two occasions as well.

I'm fully aware of the problem, and I know full well what I need to do to get things back in order. Some of you here seem to be "sluffing off" the notion of addiction and stating that it's the players fault and that they are socially inept. While it's true that the player is ultimately responsible, you need to realise that some games are specifically designed to prey on these weaknesses. That, is my only point in starting this thread at all. To the point those are trying to make that it has anything to do with being socially inept or not feeling loved, that's an unfair and mostly untrue generalization. I have a very large social group and am well loved by amazing family and friends. I'm talented, intelligent, have a great sense of humor, and have a lot of other good qualities to offer in life... but I also suffer from an addictive personality. This, is something that isn't easy to fix or change. There's no little pill that I can be prescribed to get rid of this part of my personality. It's not my fault any more than it is that I will never grow taller than the 5'7" that I am, or that I've suffered from poor circulation since I was a child which has rendered me unable to enjoy outdoor winter activities with my friends and family. It's part of my genetic makeup.... my brain chemistry. That... is science fact... not science fiction. Well... if there is a magic cure, I've not heard of it and certainly can't afford the treatments anyways.

Contrary to what some of you believe, gaming addiction is a very real and severe problem for many people. I have been fortunate enough to "dodge a bullet" so to speak, and have learned early on about the methods used by gaming companies in games like the ones mentioned in the original article I've quoted. The truth is, that I've had a heavy heart and mind dealing with my own "LBP create mode" addiction these past few months and have had to give my own head a shake. A few people in my life have attempted to knock some sense back into me, and thankfully it's worked and I've seen that my patterns over the past few months have been equal to my drinking patterns before I became sober 10 months ago (and that they've been progressively getting worse). Although my "LBP create" addictions are ultimately a way for me to express myself creatively in a way I am lacking in the real world due to money and studio space issues... they have still come to the point of being unhealthy and are now having a negative impact on my life. That stops now.

I guess while reflecting on my own situation, I've begun to think of the few other people in my life that have become much bigger victims to the real evils of gaming addiction and those elements specifically designed by certain gaming companies to take advantage of those weaknesses and character traits that feed ones addiction.

I know that many people scoff at the notion of gaming addiction and don't think it's real. The truth is, you are wrong. That's not an opinion... that's a fact, and experts agree. Yes, the player holds most of the responsibility, but if they aren't aware of the devices put into place to fool them into playing more..... then they can't necessarily be held accountable since they are literally being tricked and "programmed" into a desired behaviour by an outside source. I just think that the more we are aware of the specific devices and tactics certain gaming companies use to "keep us playing", the more knowledge we have to defend ourselves against these techniques and remain playing at a level that is both fun AND healthy.

That's really why I started this thread in the first place.

Cheers!

2010-12-30 20:18:00

Author:
Rustbukkit

Posts: 1737

I just see this thread as knowledge, the more you know the better you live your life so give Ruskbukkit some slack, he's only providing us some information on what the gaming industry does to keep us coming back for more. *Cough cough* Call of Duty for me *Cough cough*.

2010-12-30 20:33:00

Author:
Whalio Cappuccino

Posts: 5250

*Cough cough* Call of Duty for me *Cough cough*.

Oy vey! COD gave me OCD for a while too! I spent weeks agonizing over whether to Prestige or not. I think it's a blessing in disguise that I've had to choose between LBP2 and the new COD due to a tight budget. Killzone3 is another one I'll need to avoid selling my stuff to buy.

2010-12-30 20:55:00

Author:
Rustbukkit

Posts: 1737

I believe everything in this article. For those of you that don't believe in gaming addictions, I don't see why not. Addictions exist just about everywhere in human behavior. Any object that evokes favorable emotions can be the source of an addiction. Video game addictions are a common example because they're refined to do so.

I think it's only recently that the gaming industry is discovering why certain games are so addictive. They're pinpointing the most addictive elements of the most addictive games and putting them into focus in their new games.

It's interesting how this ties in to pins in LBP2. Media Molecule realizes that people will want to collect. Did MM do it to stimulate their players or honestly make their players happy? Or both?

2010-12-30 21:45:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

It's making them feel loved really, so it's all good.

My wife in Fable 3 loves me though!

But I completely agree with everything in this thread. I've never played WoW, but getting that 99 Woodcutting in Runescape sure sucked up a lot of my time. My friend just convinced his parents to let him play WoW again, and I haven't seen him since. He got Cataclysm for Christmas, and now I can't even call him. After I realized how much time I was spending online I canceled my Runescape subscription, and the only thing sucking up my time is guitar. Treat little things in life as trophies, and I find you can get a sense of accomlishment in almost anything you do. For example, try mowing the lawn in under ten minutes. Ten points for you.

2010-12-30 22:11:00

Author:
booXely

Posts: 654

But there is a very big difference between behavioural/habitual addiction and an actual physiological addiction to an addictive substance. The two are completely different.

A physiological addiction means that your body is physically addicted to a chemical - be it nicotine or something else equally addictive, and has physical side-affects when you withdraw a constant supply of the addictive chemical.

A habitual/behavioural addiction only requires will-power to overcome it.

One is physiological, the other is psychological.

I wouldn't agree that gaming addiction falls into the same category as something like alcoholism.
And even if we were to strip games of all "addictive" elements (which would make them incredibly boring to play) - people with addictive personalities would still find something else to get addicted to, like stamp collecting for instance.
Would we then control supply of stamps because a tiny minority of stamp users have become addicted?! - (they deliberately print rare stamps, in order to foster that "collectors" mind set)

2010-12-31 09:11:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

My wife in Fable 3 loves me though!

Treat little things in life as trophies, and I find you can get a sense of accomlishment in almost anything you do. For example, try mowing the lawn in under ten minutes. Ten points for you.

I actually laughed out loud. Thanks for that!

But there is a very big difference between behavioural/habitual addiction and an actual physiological addiction to an addictive substance. The two are completely different.

A physiological addiction means that your body is physically addicted to a chemical - be it nicotine or something else equally addictive, and has physical side-affects when you withdraw a constant supply of the addictive chemical.

A habitual/behavioural addiction only requires will-power to overcome it.

One is physiological, the other is psychological.

I wouldn't agree that gaming addiction falls into the same category as something like alcoholism.
And even if we were to strip games of all "addictive" elements (which would make them incredibly boring to play) - people with addictive personalities would still find something else to get addicted to, like stamp collecting for instance.
Would we then control supply of stamps because a tiny minority of stamp users have become addicted?! - (they deliberately print rare stamps, in order to foster that "collectors" mind set)

You do bring up some good arguements here, and I can certainly understand your resistance to put gaming addiction and other more seemingly serious addictions such as alcohol in the same category. I guess I differ mostly in that I see all addictions as addictions, and don't equate one to being more or less healthy than another. Too much of anything is harmful. Yes... even that.

I see what you are saying, but I think you've overlooked one major factor here. Gaming most often involves adrenaline, which in turn releases endorphines... both chemicals produced by our own bodies. This is physiological, and a pretty major contributing factor to why gaming is now considered to be just as addictive as gambling, alcohol, or any other addictive activity or substance. Heck, doctors and scientists are even now recognizing that exercising can be addictive and actually harmful to our bodies. The feel good sensation we get from the release of our endorphines is part of the physiological "high' in video game addiction.

I believe that addiction is addiction... period. Whether it's physical or mental... it's still an addiction. Part of overcoming any addiction is one of will power... whether it's mental or physical. That's the biggest battle of all with any addiction... will power. I also smoke, and my addiction to cigarettes is mostly a learned behavior. Tobacco on it's own is not all that addictive. The chemicals added contribute a lot to it's addictive qualities, but the truth is that the most difficult part of quitting is to un-learn what we've been taught in the media... that it's hard to quit. It actually takes very little time for nicotine to leave ones system, and we've literally been "taught" by society and advertising that quitting smoking is hard to do. It's not... we've been taught this by guess who... people who have money to lose if we do quit. Quitting smoking is hard because like so many other money makers out there, we've been conditioned by the companies who are directly responsible to think it's difficult to do. It's really no different than being put into an advertising skinner box. Just look at all the ads out there about quitting smoking. How many of them say "Quitting smoking is easy peasy... just do it already"? Not many, if any. They all tell us that it's hard to do and that we need help to do it, so we believe it... because we tend to do what we're told. It's in our nature. We are a remarkably easy animal to train.

I should point out that I mentioned alcoholism specifically to illustrate a point about addiction in general, and how it pertains to someone like myself with an addictive personality. I was equating my patterns and behaviorisms in gaming to those of my patterns and behaviorisms which led to and contributed to my own alcoholism. The patterns emerging in one addiction were strikingly similar to the other. Alcoholism is far too complex a disease to get into here in any detail really, but I can say that my own personal problem with it was actually not physical. The truth is, that alcohol itself is not a highly addictive substance like some other substances, and really comes down to each person taking a sip, which is why it's such a complex disease to treat. In fact, many doctors consider alcoholics to have something more akin to an allergy to alcohol than anything. In my own situation, I had absolutely zero physical withdrawl side effects, and my drinking patterns were not ones of constant daily abuse. But that is another thread altogether. My point is that I noticed similar behavioral patterns in the two areas of my life really.

The truth is that all addictions are psychological as well as physiological.... the two are closely intertwined and feed off of each other.

You say that you wouldn't put gaming addiction in the same category as alcoholism, yet both worse case scenario's could very easily have two different people exhibiting almost identical behavior patterns. Irritability, short temper, anti-social, depression, loss of job, loss of family, loss of friends, poor eating habits, poor personal hygien, lack of energy, lack of confidence, lack of motivation, etc. etc. If you ask me, these worse case scenario's are both pretty depressing and sad. If you'd met either person out of their element or comfort zone and at their worst, you'd likely have a difficult time figuring out who's having withdrawl symptoms from what without actually speaking to them about it directly.

Certainly there are far less gaming addicts in the world than there are alcoholics, but there might also be good reason for that too. When I was younger and my father was younger, there were no video games. Kids got their kicks by getting into their old man's liquor cabinet and spent their time drinking. Back then, THAT was the cool thing to do. It took many many years before people started openly talking about and accepting that alcoholism is a very serious social disease, and up until very recently in human history was often met with shame, laughter, or denial. Thankfully that's changed. It may seem far fetched and fantastical to say, but perhaps someday in the not so distant future" we will have the same global problems with gaming addiction as we do today with alcoholism and other substance abuse. Many of you laughing right now should remember that people once laughed at the thought of Gamblers Anonymous too.

There are already gambling addiction centres and organizations which function to help in the same way AA or NA does. I mean really, who would have thought 10 years ago that there would be Gamblers Anonymous commercials on TV? The notion was ridiculous even to me, up until about the 5th time I saw the commercial. Is it really that far of a stretch to think that gaming will go the same route if we are not wary of what gaming companies (who's sole purpose is to make money off of us) are up to behind our backs? Remember folks... we are talking about major corporations here. We are being sold a product, and that product should keep us coming back for more if those corporations have anything to say or do about it.

With the amazing rate at which the gaming industry and technology in general are advancing, I think we owe it to ourselves and each other to be cautious of these industries and make sure that ethical lines aren't being crossed. Adding content in order to make us addicted is clearly one of those lines, and should be taken more seriously... however small the number of victims there are.

Great conversations going on so far. I'm really intrigued by many opinions here. and some of the links added have provided me new insight (though I need more time to go through them more thoroghly... that video is a long one). Big thanks to all those involved who've kept things civil and for contributing to an interesting and hot topic.

Isn't keeping your brain active fun?
Cheers!

2010-12-31 11:52:00

Author:
Rustbukkit

Posts: 1737

Tobacco on it's own is not all that addictive.

Interesting. Do you have any data to back that up, 'cuz I've always heard the opposite. I have been aware for some time, though, that at least part of the addiction is psychological. I used to be in a position where one of my responsibilities was to help people quit smoking, and one girl I talked to told me that if she just pantomimed smoking (like, you know, pretending to hold a cigarette and taking a drag off of it), that it at least partially satisfied her craving. She may have been the exception to the rule, but it would seem to suggest that smoking is indeed at least partially a psychological addiction as you say.

Now, back to your controversial point about trophies. I have recently been wondering if the gaming industry invented those specifically to keep us playing games longer than we normally would. I wondered why they would care: once they've got our money, what reason is there to keep us playing non-subscription based games? My guess is that dlc is the other variable involved. If one finishes a game and isn't still actively playing it, they're less likely to spring for the new dlc when it comes out, but if they're still trying to get all the trophies and so the game is still fresh in their minds, they would be more likely to buy dlc.

Now I'm certainly not saying that dlc is in and of itself evil. I'm a big fan of the way that Mm handles it: it's mostly just costumes that you can buy if you're into it, but you don't need to feel like you're missing part of the game if you opt out, and when they release actual game add-ons, they're a pretty darn good deal for what you get. Where I take issue, though, is when companies will deliberately omit content from the game (they hold stuff back) or,

when paid dlc is just an unlock code for content that's already on the disc (I'm looking at you, Soul Calibur Yoda and Vader).

By the same token, trophies are not necessarily evil, but there certainly is some plausibility to the notion that at least some of them are engineered specifically to prey on addiction/compulsion prone players. The main problem I have with them, however, is how some of them seem to encourage players (inadvertently or not) to act in anti-social ways that lessen the fun of the game to their fellow players. I don't know the specifics, but I've heard of people playing Halo 3 mp and screwing over their teammates by running off to do some kind of achievement instead of trying to actually win the game, and, of course, there's the infamous h4h that would almost certainly not have been anywhere nearly as prevalent without the create trophy. Still, as much as I dislike trophies, I have to acknowledge that the majority of players seem to enjoy them and, as hard as it is to admit it, sometimes it's not all about me.

2010-12-31 15:25:00

Author:
Sehven

Posts: 2188

Disgaea 3;
One of the trophies is "Consult Your Physician"; Play for over 10 hours without stopping.

That's just evil - and I'm sure it's against some health & safety rule or other.

2010-12-31 16:41:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

Disgaea 3;
One of the trophies is "Consult Your Physician"; Play for over 10 hours without stopping.

That's just evil - and I'm sure it's against some health & safety rule or other.

Unless they're coded to recognise activity those are normally run the electric bill up by hiding in a safe corner for 10 hours while doing something else.

2010-12-31 16:49:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

as hard as it is to admit it, sometimes it's not all about me.

^ First and only time you will see a mod say that.

Anyways, here's my thoughts: I love trophies. I am a dedicated trophy whore. I recently bought the Sly Cooper Collection, not because I was positive I would like it, but because it had three easy platinums *angelic music*. I consider my E-you-know-what's length to be directly equivalent to the amount of Platinums I have. Now, while I have a personal love of trophies themselves, I have a mixed opinion on implementation, and what makes a good trophy.

First off, and most importantly, TROPHIES SHOULD NOT INVOLVE MULTIPLAYER. I can't express this enough. The way online gaming is structured, there will always be unfair advantages - and requiring players to get these to earn trophies is cruel. LittleBigPlanet is one example of horrible, horrible trophies. Some people are going to be terrible at making levels, and there is no system powerful enough, no community tutorial big enough to fix that. LBP is a two-tiered game, and to be honest, the sequel is going down this route too. I honestly debated getting LBP2 when I heard they were going to include a heart trophy - because I know, and have come to terms with, the fact that I will never be able to create in LBP2, the system is just too complex. So, what do I do? Should I just let that trophy slot sit empty, if I've gone to the trouble of earning others? No way in hell. No, when I get LBP2, I might just be a rampant H4Her - and Media Molecule will have brought it on themselves.

Here's another trophy gone wrong - the "Buy stuff to unlock" trophy. Just as I might not bother with LBP2's platinum, I won't be bothering with Sports Champion's either. Why? Well, there's a trophy for "Play with two motion controllers". Sorry Sony, I'm not shelling out more money for another useless controller, and no increase to my gamerscore can convince me to. Same with Sackboy's Prehistoric Moves, I'll never have 100% in that game - I don't have the four controllers needed to get a trophy.

Now, here's what I consider a trophy list done right - inFamous. Of all the games I have, I consider this the most fair trophy list. You see, my dictionary definition of good platinum trophy is this: Something that can reasonably be done by the average player, but the average player won't do. In terms of inFamous, the average player would play though once, focusing on the main story missions, and would put it away for good once done, never to see it again. For the trophy loving player, though, that's just the start! A trophy whore is motivated to explore the entire game world, to complete every side mission, create every cool kill, to find each and every collectible! The best part is, none of the trophies are impossible, or even particularly hard - but they take effort. In doing so, players like me get far more for their money - I've explored every inch of Empire City. For each and every cent I spent on that game, I got far more enjoyment than the average player would. I am one of the few who can truly say that. And that's why it's the perfect platinum, the one I am immensely proud of.

Just my $0.02.

2010-12-31 17:02:00

Author:
Voltergeist

Posts: 1702

While I don't value trophies personally, I heartily agree with everything you said about what makes a good trophy, BBB. My main beefs with trophies that I've mentioned basically boil down to messing up the game for other players, which wouldn't be an issue if there were no mp trophies. As for needing to buy stuff, since I don't care about trophies, it's easy to ignore the ones where you need to buy stuff, but if I were into trophies, those would certainly tick me off.

Now back on topic, I'm curious if you'd consider your trophy hunting to be an addiction. I'm not sure exactly how to define addiction in this case, but I figure if you can go a couple weeks without getting your fix, you can probably consider yourself not addicted. It'd also be interesting to hear what others have to say about trophies specifically related to addiction (as that seems to have been RB's original point).

For my part, while I've never been addicted to trophies, there've been a few times when I considered myself addicted to creating in lbp, and I'm sure it'll happen again in lbp2. In those cases, I would spend every available minute playing lbp, even fudging the times on my lunch breaks (at my last job, I could go home for lunch and it was easy to finagle a longer lunch... which might have been a contributing factor to my losing that job

) to get more create time. Still, if you're gonna' be addicted to something, creativity is one of the better things you can be addicted to, but you have to watch it to make sure it doesn't get out of hand (and get you fired).

2011-01-01 16:05:00

Author:
Sehven

Posts: 2188

I've noticed that since the introduction of achievements/trophies quite a few people have developed a variety of habits and complusions around them the main one being people buying or renting games that they wouldn't have ever considered playing if they weren't a quick and easy way of increasing their score. A weird one i saw the other day was someone not wanting to play the Sly Collection because they only want games with Platinums on their list and the minigames would have ruined that.

Personally as much as I love collecting trophies I refuse to let them get in the way of having fun, if it's a choice between playing hours of a multiplayer mode that I'm not enjoying just to get a few trophies or picking something I've already completed off the shelf for a replay I'll go for the replay every time.

Now, back to your controversial point about trophies. I have recently been wondering if the gaming industry invented those specifically to keep us playing games longer than we normally would. I wondered why they would care: once they've got our money, what reason is there to keep us playing non-subscription based games? My guess is that dlc is the other variable involved. If one finishes a game and isn't still actively playing it, they're less likely to spring for the new dlc when it comes out, but if they're still trying to get all the trophies and so the game is still fresh in their minds, they would be more likely to buy dlc.

I believe they're using the achievements/trophies to track how much we're playing the games, almost every game gives you one for either starting the game for the first time or something else incredibly easy then has trophies spread through the story mode and a few for different difficulties it's not hard to imagine them having a spread sheet with the data on and working out the percentage of people completing the game and if theres a certain point where most people are giving up. Of course thats just my speculation.

They want people to keep playing the games so they don't trade them in as quickly and hopefully they'll sell more new copies of the game because they're the ones that bring the money in.

Same with Sackboy's Prehistoric Moves, I'll never have 100% in that game - I don't have the four controllers needed to get a trophy.

http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/sackboys-prehistoric-moves/82995-easiest-method-five-day-trophy.html

2011-01-01 19:58:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

Making videogames today requires a great deal of psychology comprehension. Seriously, they study gamers, humans and they try more and more to tailor games toward influencing you. Seriously, this is the new "replay value" and a new way of making a truckload of money. Your health? It's up to you to control it, it's not their problem, they aren't your mother or something.

There are some crazy however (like me) where this whole thing doesn't really work. When I see a game telling me too much what to do and when to do it --- I am turned off. It's almost like a mechanical defense system. Pretty much part of my personality. I'm used to not read ads, product placement in movies and games or TV shows are stand outs for me and automatically annoying, I absolutely hate MMO (the perfect turn off) and those pseudo games ala Farmville or Animal Crossing aren't addicting for me. I also am not a dependant nature in general as I never got addicted to alcool, smoking or anything else --- and all this even when a good part of my life so far has been lived through a depressive mood. Lastly and in all accordance to my personality, it's not surprise that I don't like or can be bothered by trophies or again those lame and boring patches. They don't bring me anything and especially aren't addictive to me or influencing me in putting more hours into the games.

Oh well, I suppose that if the gaming industry starts to play the mind games more and more, I will simply drift away from the hobby at the same speed.

2011-01-01 21:09:00

Author:
RangerZero

Posts: 3901

how i treat my trophie or achievement addiction is, achievement unlocked by jmtb02.
good game and so is the sequel.
ps lawn mowed in 4mins 56.
10 points!!!

2011-01-03 22:36:00

Author:
unXpectiD

Posts: 1132

What about negative trophies?
You know, the ones that give you a "consolation" trophy for being incredibly bad at a game?

I avoid them like the plague... I would sooner keep the trophyachievement slot empty than to get a trphy that tells other gamers how bad I am at a game.
And I take any oppertunity to rib a player who has one of these "consolation" trophies... because they're either A) bad atthe game or B) A trophy ho - and either way deserve my contempt

2011-01-04 14:15:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

I have yet to see a trophy like that not earned naturally by playing the game. It's in there as an easy trophy. If you, on your first time playing God of War, say you wouldn't earn the "consolation" trophy (die enough times to be offered easy mode), you're either lying or superhuman.

2011-01-04 14:31:00

Author:
Voltergeist

Posts: 1702

And I take any oppertunity to rib a player who has one of these "consolation" trophies... because they're either A) bad atthe game or B) A trophy ho - and either way deserve my contempt

Plus, you've obviously got the moral high ground when you care enough about trophies to actually look at those people's trophies in the first place

2011-01-04 14:31:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

I want trophies for important things like in being in create mode while eating pizza trophy. ...or balancing the controller while attempting to pour a drink trophy. You know.. ones that show some skill, dexterity, and balance while exploring the different food groups.

2011-01-04 15:02:00

Author:
jwwphotos

Posts: 11383

I actually gave myself a mandatory week-off from the Beta... when I found myself placing actual emphasis on it's virtual 'pins'... I was like, "Whoa Now! 7 Days-Off... Is there a pin for dat?"

2011-01-04 15:54:00

Author:
Gravel

Posts: 1308

I actually gave myself a mandatory week-off from the Beta... when I found myself placing actual emphasis on it's virtual 'pins'... I was like, "Whoa Now! 7 Days-Off... Is there a pin for dat?"

The "welcome back sucker!" trophy? lol

2011-01-04 16:26:00

Author:
jwwphotos

Posts: 11383

Oh that's great, after reading this, I'm screwed now

I mean now, I was going to go ahead and attempt to get the platinum trophy on WKC, spending several hundred hours grinding missions, but I can't be bothered.
When I say now, I meant after getting the platinum trophy for JC2 because my brother picked it up afew days ago and I became addicted to it, which then stopped me from getting my hard *** final trophy for COD:BO. Now I feel like I've wasted a bit of my life. *Rageface

Something about trophies that makes me competetive. ;? Sigh

2011-01-04 16:28:00

Author:
Limesta-

Posts: 559

Plus, you've obviously got the moral high ground when you care enough about trophies to actually look at those people's trophies in the first place

Of course, the contempt is reserved for those who would use their PSN level/Gamer Score as a mark of their gaming prowess - in which case, yes, I will scan for any "consolation" prizes, especially if we're in a game specific board and they are bragging how they've got every achievement for said game... and point out that you only get some achievements for being rubbish.

Then I put a thumb in each ear, wave my hands up and down while blowing a raspberry with my tongue.

2011-01-04 16:35:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

Mortal Coil Shuffler Extraordinaire
Accumulate 20 deaths in one Story level

If thats in one go you'll be able to avoid it if it accumulates over multiple runs on level it will probably get unlocked. (Guess if you really wanted to avoid it you could do alot of save file back-ups & restores but it's alot of messing around just to not get a consolation prize.)

2011-01-04 22:51:00

Author:
Rabid-Coot

Posts: 6728

I went on the demo today and got a pin for Mm's birthday

Although, I couldn't care less about trophies, I just found them fun little extra's that pop-up while you're playing along.

2011-01-04 22:59:00

Author:
kirbyman62

Posts: 1893

You got this from Cracked.com didnt you? I read their articles all the time......... I lost my point :/

2011-01-06 23:17:00

Author:
Unknown User

after reading this, i realised that i'm not THAT addictive to video games. ._.

2011-01-07 02:40:00

Author:
TheUltraDeino

Posts: 1274

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