Archive: 8 posts

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I have been watching all of these insane levels from the beta and I'm wondering, how much thermo space do some of these levels take up? The sackenstein 3D or the Marvel vs. Sony vs. Capcom levels for example. Also, is putting, say, 10 switches onto a circuit board the same as sticking them straight into the level or does it actually save space on the thermometer? And what about the sequencers? what effect would a sequencer full of switches and music do to the thermo? I have plans for some fairly epic levels and I'd like to have some points of reference to figure out how much stuff I can cram into them. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

2010-12-28 22:33:00 Author: Scifiguy Posts: 95

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Well I can speak from only what I know. Sackenstein 3D draws on my ray casting techniques and nearly kills the thermometer. My Dungeon Crawler "Corridors of Madness" uses less than half the thermometer, My Unicorn FPS test uses about half the thermometer, my Top down Co-op shooter now kills the thermometer after a recent patch, and my top down competitive shooter takes up above half. Suffice it to say, the thermo is a lot more generous in this game, but not totally. If you find yourself running low on real estate, you can always use level links to extend it. Music doesn't take much of the thermo, but each music sequencer has its own thermometer. Microchips are just a shortcut for the switches, I don't think they save thermo real estate but they make things neater. Though if someone proves me wrong that'd be nice. Even though the logic pieces save a lot of time and frustration, if you start laying down tons of microchips the thermo adds up. One thing from the last game applies - copied things use less thermo. So try to make things into components that you can copy and paste.

2010-12-28 22:52:00 Author: Foofles Posts: 2278

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Thanks, that helps alot! One more thing; you say that each sequencer has its own thermometer, how much can you fit an one sequencer?

2010-12-28 23:48:00 Author: Scifiguy Posts: 95

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It's hard to say... it depends a lot on how many unique instruments and the quality of the samples. That's only for music sequencers though.

2010-12-29 00:07:00 Author: Foofles Posts: 2278

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Depends how many simples and ho long instrument takes, biggest blue thermometer eaters are drum kits that can have 10 samples inside them Blue thermometer limits number of samples loaded to the memory

2010-12-29 13:38:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I've fiddled around a LOT w/ the thermo in the beta and i can safely say that foofles is wrong. i will answer all of your questions in detail. 1. Most of these levels take up probably half the thermo. This is because of the new system of emiters which works more in a way of stuf thats there and not stuff that will be. I'm not sure about M vs. C vs. S though. you should ask the creator. 2. your second question is tricky. I know the answer its just hard to word. Ok, here it goes. If you have a low thermo, a MC that has 10 switches will make no differance in the thermo (no noticable differance!) BUT. if your thermo is very high and you don't want to over heat, then use a MC to hid the logic. My proof for this is the first chapter of my level. Its at 99.7% thermo (literally) so for anything i might add i just place a MC (they have NO effect on the thermo themselves) and place what i want, and the thermo only goes up slightly, not largely anymore. A better example of this is my battle system. it takes up around 4 sections of the thermo. But w/ all the MCs open it takes up 6 sections (maybe more). get the picture? 3. depends on the sequencer. well not really. they both lessen the thermo load when it comes to logic. They still to the same thing but in sync. (they both hid the logic's physical atributes and aestetics. 4. Music, and regular sequencers w/ stuff in them have the same strain on the thermo as a MC. (but to be safe i would put that sequencer into a MC, to illiminate the initial sequincer's thermo load. side note 1: USE a many Micro chips as possible. Trust me they have NO effect on the thermo (basicly) they make it so much neater!!! side note 2: The music sequencer does take up thermo in itself, but the music does not! Think like how the thermo goes up due to regular music placement. something like that! the MS (music sequencer) has its own thermo for INSTRIMENTS. not music amount. you can have a set number of set music instriments but have a HUGE song. This is per sequencer though!!!

2010-12-29 17:43:00 Author: a_mailbox Posts: 416

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Good observations. I just drew on what I was actually familiar with, I know that in my stuff when I copied and pasted the same microchipped object say... a few dozen times over... even if it barely took any noticeable thermo before it'd jump tremendously, and it also depends on what kind of logic is involved. Impact sensors take a lot more thermo real estate than a battery, for example. And the emitters aren't that magical, If you start having hundreds of them they take up plenty of thermometer real estate. In Sackenstein there are over 700 emitters, and all the logic is constantly being evaluated at once with no early cancellation.

2010-12-30 15:17:00 Author: Foofles Posts: 2278

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side note 1: USE a many Micro chips as possible. Trust me they have NO effect on the thermo (basicly) they make it so much neater!!! The microchips do have thermo consideration in themselves, however it is true that by closing them down the objects inside them take up less thermo (due to lack of visible meshes, wiring, positional info etc. being required). Using "as many as possible" will up the component count and will up your thermo contribution - there are calculations associated with the microchip, even if they don't functionally do anything and whilst the thermo contribution is tiny, it's actually quite high by LBP2 logic terms (IIRC a few times larger than a basic gate) and if you are using the "as many as possible" rule of thumb, you're probably using a noticeably larger amount of thermo for your logic. It's best to put everything inside microchips, yes, but using as few as possible is still best, from a thermo standpoint - modularity and organizational considerations are something else. Interesting thing to note: if you switch off a microchip the logic inside should not be evaluated, which can give great improvements in performance in a logic-heavy level if you stop devices from updating when they aren't in use. There is thermo contribution for objects in emitters if nothing is emitted - as foofles says, it's not the magical "only take into account what is currently in play" that many people believe. This thermo is (I presume) used to hold the data in RAM that is required to emit the object when it is required. Note, if you have a max emitted setting and you reach that limit, then destroy all emitted objects, you recover the reserve thermo as the system knows it will never need to emit that object again. The exception to this is if you link the emitter to an object in the level, the emitter will be at 0 (ignoring actual emitter thermo itself, which is negligible) until it emits something. (all as of 1.02)

2010-12-30 15:51:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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