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Wikileaks

Archive: 140 posts


The revolution will not be televised, but by god it'll be all over twitter!

Am I the only one following this? Some of this stuff is insanely sensitive, it blows open so many hidden political motives, I'm trolling my way through as much as I can.

I'm not surprised by H. Clinton +predecessors ordered gathering of personal key codes biometric info on UN members, seems like standard political espionage to me.

The China/US/Korea relations is an interesting read and the bits about reunification/political collapse.
Also the sections on Iran are a little eye opening.

The Gardian, The NY Times and 3 others have the full uncensored transcripts. The documents are also being drip released to the public by wikileaks themselves. You can find them on twitter.
2010-11-30 08:49:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


At the moment I see wikileaks only as funny silly stuff.
Some things are so given that everyone a bit smart could have figured them out without the need of secret docs.
Some valutations made in those docs seems written by 8 years old kids.
They haven't bough me yet.
I know some will say that NWO wants people to think they don't exist, but wikileaks by now is lame-ish
2010-11-30 09:47:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


I think this is funny


The US Attorney General Eric Holder has talked of examining the possibility of criminal prosecutions and there have been calls for Wikileaks to be designated a terrorist organisation which would have drastic consequences for anyone who works for it or with it.

All docs are classified/secret nothing on there is any higher. Higher level docs are "Top Secret" and "Eyes Only"

BBC

Most of the diplomatic messages released by Wikileaks have been traced to a US defence department network, known as Siprnet, used for the exchange of classified information, media reports say.

Ironically, Siprnet (Secret Internet Protocol Router Network), which was set up in the 1990s, was expanded as part of moves after 9/11 to allow classified information to be shared more easily and prevent failures of communication between different intelligence agencies.
2010-11-30 10:15:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


Wikileaks to be designated a terrorist organisation which would have drastic consequences for anyone who works for it or with it.
Yeah, the new S.P.E.C.T.R.E. , please call back James Bond, the true Sean Connery one.
I thought all this mess wouldn't have happened if her majesty wouldn't have abolished the double 0 license
2010-11-30 10:32:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


From what I can tell, the vast majority of the 'leaks' fall into;
Diplomats are also spies.
What politicians say in public is different from what they say in private.
There are suspicions that Afghanistan might be a bit of a mess.
Corruption is rife.

... and this just in,
There are unconfirmed reports that an Ursine Mammal has been seen defecating in a highly wooded area.
And there are rumours circulating that the pope may in fact be a roman catholic.
2010-11-30 16:33:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


Diplomats are also spies.
What politicians say in public is different from what they say in private.
There are suspicions that Afghanistan might be a bit of a mess.
Corruption is rife.
And people did need to be made aware of those things by a NewZealender hacker?
(No offense to New Zealenders , just saying)
2010-11-30 17:00:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


Suprised it hasn't been taken down after all I heard yesterday on BBC News. Having said that, I didn't have a clue what they were talking about other than something had been leaked 2010-11-30 18:06:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893


And people did need to be made aware of those things by a NewZealender hacker?
(No offense to New Zealenders , just saying)
He actually said that himself Omega the bit at the bottom of his post about bears and the pope is two common phrases in britain , and maybe some other english speaking countries
2010-11-30 18:14:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920


I can't really be bothered reading articles on a site when the first sentence you see upon arrival to a site has a spelling error. That being said it is pretty cool to have leaked secret documents.2010-11-30 18:40:00

Author:
robotiod
Posts: 2662


Blimey, they seem to have hit a nerve.

"Execute Him As A Terrorist!" (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8172916/WikiLeaks-guilty-parties-should-face-death-penalty.html)

Just a bit of an over-reaction I feel. They are actually taking about changing the law so that they can arrest the wikileak founder with a trumped up charge.

Any politician who uses the stock phrase "They are putting lives at risk" - ask them "Who's life is actually at risk - name a specific individual who's life is now more at risk because of these leaks than before - and if their life really is at risk - then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! - that's your job!"

The authorities are just mad they've been caught with their pants around their ankles and we can all see what teeny members they have.
2010-12-01 15:01:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


The Australian founder of wikileaks has a code red on his name (not an arrest warrant just a "where are you") from interpol regarding trumped up sex charges. Some have called for his assassination, and the Ecuadorian PM has stated officially that residency has not been approved after claims of unconditional sanctuary.


New York Congressman Pete King has called for the US Attorney General to designate Wikileaks a terrorist organisation and to prosecute founder Julian Assange for espionage.

Julian Assange is Australian does this mean Australia is a terrorism target now XD
2010-12-01 20:21:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


The Australian founder of wikileaks has a code red on his name (not an arrest warrant just a "where are you") from interpol regarding trumped up sex charges. Some have called for his assassination, and the Ecuadorian PM has stated officially that residency has not been approved after claims of unconditional sanctuary.



Julian Assange is Australian does this mean Australia is a terrorism target now XD

Apparently he's hiding in the UK... does that mean the US will invade us for "harbouring terrorists"?

So much for Freedom of Speech eh?
When the government are prying into all of our secrets we are told "The Innocent Have Nothing To Fear" (which goes against the principle of presumed innocence, instead they presume you guilty, hence why they have the power to pry - they would have no reason to spy on someone they presumed innocent).
But when we get access to their secrets they're all "KILL THE MESSENGER!" ;
They don't like it up em!
2010-12-03 15:16:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


You are breaking the law if you go to this site (http://gawker.com/5705639/us-military-in-iraq-tries-to-intimidate-soldiers-into-not-reading-wikileaks)2010-12-04 07:59:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


I don't know what they put up on wiki leaks exactly, but if it's government secrets, I 100% understand their reaction. Anyone can access that information and I for one wouldn't want 'secure' documents concerning the military or public safety leaked to the world. I think it's dangerous and the government have every right to contain the founder and put a stop to his attempts to de-structure the government and international relations (Comments on British Military).2010-12-04 14:43:00

Author:
MrFunctionality
Posts: 637


I don't know what they put up on wiki leaks exactly, but if it's government secrets, I 100% understand their reaction. Anyone can access that information and I for one wouldn't want 'secure' documents concerning the military or public safety leaked to the world. I think it's dangerous and the government have every right to contain the founder and put a stop to his attempts to de-structure the government and international relations (Comments on British Military).

Well, Assange has gone on record saying that the truely dangerous ones, he's omitted from releasing. The ones that will directly put soldiers lives at risk (which I presume means information on deployment and bases). So he does have some tact, he's been selective. Granted theres a lot of incriminating stuff, but some of the more risky stuff is just what the US intelligence suspects about other nations, like the one about russia basically being a mafia-run state.

The ones that offend me the most are the ones to do with soldier misconduct in warzones.
Bar that politicians can scandalize themselves as much as they want, doesn't bother me.

The real news is the south korea vs north korea thing, tensions rising, threats of airstrikes etc.

Not nice stuff.
2010-12-04 18:54:00

Author:
Asbestos101
Posts: 1114


The real news is the south korea vs north korea thing, tensions rising, threats of airstrikes etc.

Yeah keep an eye on my N Korea Updates thread for that. I'm doing quite well at finding out stuff well before it ends up edited on CNN or BBC
2010-12-05 01:14:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/demotivational-posters-wikileeks.jpg2010-12-06 08:09:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893


Wait a second... why are you posting this on a site intended for kids adn teens?
And more importantly... Why choose an lbp website?

you'll frighten the children!
2010-12-07 20:24:00

Author:
Joshofsouls
Posts: 1569


Has anyone actually been able to access the Wikileaks site? I haven't been able to get on for days...2010-12-07 21:35:00

Author:
Ayneh
Posts: 2454


And people did need to be made aware of those things by a NewZealender hacker?
(No offense to New Zealenders , just saying)

The guy's an Australian citizen. It's causing quite an uproar here in Australia as our Prime Minister, rather than defend the rights of one of her citizens, chooses to side with those who condemn him, which essentially is giving, by omission, support to aggressive calls for extradition, classification as a "terrorist" and calls for Assange's assassination by assorted US politicians and correspondents. She has tainted any trial Assange may get by claiming that what he did was "illegal" when no actual illegality can be proven. There's a lot more to it than the just the articles you have mentioned. The real question is - how is this guy getting the information?

Personally, if those in political and civic responsibility cannot be trusted to live and act true to the values they espouse and claim to uphold, then people need to be made aware of it. And, I am tired of having Prime Ministers that are nothing by US puppets [/rant]

Where is the right to freedom of speech? Assange himself made the valid point that so much damaging (to powers-that-be) information is suppressed by placing people under threat of death. One US correspondent even publicly suggested Assange's 20 year old son, living in Australia, should be kidnapped as a way of dealing with the 'situation'. Those in "power" seem to stoop to any lengths to maintain it.

However, perhaps the manner of delivery of such sensitive information is what should be questioned? Here's an interesting article looking at it from another angle.
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41934.html
2010-12-07 23:22:00

Author:
BabyDoll1970
Posts: 1567


Wait a second... why are you posting this on a site intended for kids adn teens?
And more importantly... Why choose an lbp website?

you'll frighten the children!

Says the guy who made the "How would you die?" thread...
I don't think Kids wanna think about that, nor is it really for an LBP site either... -_-
2010-12-07 23:58:00

Author:
Silverleon
Posts: 6707


Julian Assange arrested:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/julian-assange-denied-bail

And denied bail.
Perhaps he is being denied proper justice or their is some conflict of interest which is causing the court to not allow bail?
Perhaps not. Discuss?

Sorry, just a bit bad at grammar today... *drool*
2010-12-08 00:02:00

Author:
Richasackboy
Posts: 619


This is all I have to say:

An American idiot sold him top-secret info about a BUNCH of top-secret places around the US.
Assange uploads it onto Wikileaks (unaware that the info was CLASSIFIED information, NEVER to be revealed to the public eye).
THE WHOLE WORLD (terrorists, governments, random people, etc.) sees the document, completely jepordizing America's defenses.
And now, the American government is seeking Assange for revealing document publically.
Assange will most likely be dead in the next week or so; his death probably won't be reported until a few weeks after.

Now this makes me wonder who's the bigger idiot here: Assange (the man who posted the information publically), or the guy who sold him the document (who knew quite well that the information, if it were released, would end up with someone dead)? I'd recommend the second option. BUT for now, all we can do is wait and see if his body turns up six feet tall or six feet under.

I mean, come on! When you leak highly-classified information onto the Internet for EVERYONE to see, you're just asking for trouble. Of course the bigger idiots would be the people who gave him the information in the first place, but the least he could do is respect other peoples' privacy and at least not leak every detail. And now, nearly half of the world knows where the US keeps its secrets...

I swear, there's gonna be a World War III in my generation. T_T
2010-12-08 02:03:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack
Posts: 5757


I swear, there's gonna be a World War III in my generation. T_T

I was hoping to save WW III for when the aliens attack...

But really, I have no idea how this all happened, things like this should really be stopped somehow, files like that shouldn't be that easy to share with the entire world.
2010-12-08 02:33:00

Author:
booXely
Posts: 654


None of the recent leaks were classified information.

Some were marked as privy, sure, but honestly denying this guy bail and calling for assassination is a bit of an overreaction.

I mean, honestly, for Sack's sake, they want this guy dead but every time Chavez kills a reporter they turn their heads simply because he's handing out oil like candy. Assange is basically doing something on the level of a political paparazzi and they want him dead. Hurt prides are apparently more irritating than hurt countries.
2010-12-08 03:49:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046


None of the recent leaks were classified information.

Some were marked as privy, sure, but honestly denying this guy bail and calling for assassination is a bit of an overreaction.

I mean, honestly, for Sack's sake, they want this guy dead but every time Chavez kills a reporter they turn their heads simply because he's handing out oil like candy. Assange is basically doing something on the level of a political paparazzi and they want him dead. Hurt prides are apparently more irritating than hurt countries.

Then tell that to Al Qaeda; they want us dead and we didn't even do anything.

And with this recently released information, they can harm our country from the inside out. I know it's brash to call out the guy's death sentence, but I guess you get what you voted for. :
2010-12-08 05:36:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack
Posts: 5757


What I find hilarious is how I was told the files were obtained. A soldier has blank CDs stashed in a Lady Gaga case. He goes to the computer and put the disk and headphones in, hums along to Lady Gaga and copies every file he can get.


A file I thought was interesting was one by Hillary Clinton, where she quotes Kevin Rudd, the former Australian Prime minister and current foreign affairs minister?

Apparently Rudd, who speaks Mandarin and seems pro-China, is thinking that force must be taken to China to keep it in check.


It's all quite interesting.
2010-12-08 05:40:00

Author:
tomodon246
Posts: 624


Uhh oh! the good ol' ss wikipedia is leaking! quickly plug the holes! yar me heartys, swab the decks, err ect!2010-12-08 08:11:00

Author:
huntedstorm
Posts: 488


It is also interesting that Kevin Rudd has been quoted as saying
he did not "give a ****" about criticism of him in the cables. [BBC]

Oh the 4 letter word begins with D not F

The one about top officials in the Chinese government ordering the hacker attacks on Google is semi critical. Because that could be seen officially as government supported cyber warfare. And could be a huge blow to international trust where online content/business is concerned.

And regarding the comment as to why it is posted here...
[rant] This is the 'General Chat' section and not all of us on this site are 12 years old. If the subject is to political/not infantile enough for you I suggest you ignore the thread and read the 'What are you listening to' type threads instead. I don't see why it should be so hard to have an intelligent discussion, it was attitudes such as yours that killed the scientific discussion thread. [/end_rant]

If you support the cause use Bittorrent to DL the encrypted file named history insurance, list of mirrors on twitter


What is it you muggles say? "The truth shall out"

Edit: Removed video as I believe it was fake the subtitles did not match with Korean speech

Re-Edit: http://www.3news.co.nz/WikiLeaks-supporters-launch-cyber-attacks/tabid/412/articleID/190002/Default.aspx
&
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wikileaks.png
2010-12-08 08:12:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


The USA are to host World Press Freedom Day in 2011... (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/12/152465.htm)
& I thought Americans didn't get irony?

I hear North Korea is going to host the World Democracy & Human Rights rally next year aswell



And in true American Style - due to the cables from Wikileaks - America is going to invade Wikipedia
2010-12-08 12:44:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


I've heard about this but I never really gave it much thought. I mean really, how secure was this information? There are plenty of things that we are not ment to see and granted we havn't. So what makes this any different. I suppsoe I should go find then read whatever has been "leaked". Anyone brave enough to post a link or copy and paste?2010-12-08 14:34:00

Author:
Bradlee
Posts: 96


Wikileaks.org as they are under constant Ddos attack they have had to set up mirror sites. Also follow them on twitter @wikileaks

Just over 300 released 249,700 to go

Anonymous are using LOIC (http://encyclopediadramatica.com/LOIC) (Lower orbit ion cannon) to conduct ddos attacks, and have successfuly taken down VISA, Mastercard, Paypal and SarahPAC (Sarah Palin's site). Sarah Palin who has called for the Wikileaks founder's death and called him Un-American.... err sorry I was unaware that Australia was the 51st State.
2010-12-09 01:30:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


I've been following this a lot recently! I think it's good that people are standing up to the government for freedom of speech. And it's about time that the government are revealed for the money sucking scumba- oh yeah, family site...

Whatever...

Oh, and I found this today too


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVGqE726OAo
2010-12-09 17:51:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105


This is all I have to say:

An American idiot sold him top-secret info about a BUNCH of top-secret places around the US.
Assange uploads it onto Wikileaks (unaware that the info was CLASSIFIED information, NEVER to be revealed to the public eye).
THE WHOLE WORLD (terrorists, governments, random people, etc.) sees the document, completely jepordizing America's defenses.
And now, the American government is seeking Assange for revealing document publically.
Assange will most likely be dead in the next week or so; his death probably won't be reported until a few weeks after.

Now this makes me wonder who's the bigger idiot here: Assange (the man who posted the information publically), or the guy who sold him the document (who knew quite well that the information, if it were released, would end up with someone dead)? I'd recommend the second option. BUT for now, all we can do is wait and see if his body turns up six feet tall or six feet under.

I mean, come on! When you leak highly-classified information onto the Internet for EVERYONE to see, you're just asking for trouble. Of course the bigger idiots would be the people who gave him the information in the first place, but the least he could do is respect other peoples' privacy and at least not leak every detail. And now, nearly half of the world knows where the US keeps its secrets...

I swear, there's gonna be a World War III in my generation. T_T

Try reading up on a subject before becoming annoyed about it. Assange knew full well what he was posting, and the person that 'sold' him the documents was most likely a PFC in the US military. Assange's goal, and the goal of his website, is to encourage government transparency, uncover corruption and to make sure that censorship is never abused.

This 'American idiot' you speak of was a soldier who was deeply troubled by the corruption in his government, and despite that fact that there is a large chance he will either be killed or go to prison for over 50 years, he decided that uncovering the corruption that is rife in the government was more important than his life.

Admittedly, there is not much evidence of actual corruption in the files released so far (1203 out of a total of above 250,000), but for the safety of the world, even, and to prevent loss of life, Wikileaks did filter through the entire batch of cables and have removed any documents that may put lives in danger. These documents most likely reveal the dirty dealings the government takes part in.

And of course, no actual US laws prohibit the public posting of classified information (there is A LOT of classified information included in the leak), but the government are trying to exploit a loophole in a piece of legislation that is nearly 100 years old. The assassination of Julian Assange would be about the absolute worst way the government could handle this situation; it would be incredibly obvious what had happened, and would cause an outcry far beyond the riots we saw in London today. To add to this, Assange is currently safe inside a British prison, held there apparently because of a crime he was acquitted of in august. It is almost obvious, to an outside viewer, that he is nothing more than a political prisoner - something which i believe is actually considered fundamentally wrong by the US government.

The 'battle for the freedom of the internet,' as some have called it (though I consider this to be something of a hyperbole), is much more than the release of these documents. If the government want to censor what is posted on Wikileaks, they have to sensor the entire internet - they would have to arrest me, too; I downloaded the archive file out of stubborn defiance towards censorship. They have already, in fact, arrested one 16-year-old that was supportive of wikileaks, for taking part in a DDoS attack on PayPal. I wonder is the hackers that attacked Wikileaks will be arrested? I doubt it.

Anyway, you can look forward to your World War III because if, as you predicted, Julian Assange IS assassinated, his colleagues at Wikileaks will release the key to the locked documents and in all likelihood, nukes will be thrown. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

tl;dr wikileaks is justified in its actions.

-Summer Glau
2010-12-09 23:16:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


Try reading up on a subject before becoming annoyed about it. Assange knew full well what he was posting, and the person that 'sold' him the documents was most likely a PFC in the US military. Assange's goal, and the goal of his website, is to encourage government transparency, uncover corruption and to make sure that censorship is never abused.

This 'American idiot' you speak of was a soldier who was deeply troubled by the corruption in his government, and despite that fact that there is a large chance he will either be killed or go to prison for over 50 years, he decided that uncovering the corruption that is rife in the government was more important than his life.

Admittedly, there is not much evidence of actual corruption in the files released so far (1203 out of a total of above 250,000), but for the safety of the world, even, and to prevent loss of life, Wikileaks did filter through the entire batch of cables and have removed any documents that may put lives in danger. These documents most likely reveal the dirty dealings the government takes part in.

And of course, no actual US laws prohibit the public posting of classified information (there is A LOT of classified information included in the leak), but the government are trying to exploit a loophole in a piece of legislation that is nearly 100 years old. The assassination of Julian Assange would be about the absolute worst way the government could handle this situation; it would be incredibly obvious what had happened, and would cause an outcry far beyond the riots we saw in London today. To add to this, Assange is currently safe inside a British prison, held there apparently because of a crime he was acquitted of in august. It is almost obvious, to an outside viewer, that he is nothing more than a political prisoner - something which i believe is actually considered fundamentally wrong by the US government.

The 'battle for the freedom of the internet,' as some have called it (though I consider this to be something of a hyperbole), is much more than the release of these documents. If the government want to censor what is posted on Wikileaks, they have to sensor the entire internet - they would have to arrest me, too; I downloaded the archive file out of stubborn defiance towards censorship. They have already, in fact, arrested one 16-year-old that was supportive of wikileaks, for taking part in a DDoS attack on PayPal. I wonder is the hackers that attacked Wikileaks will be arrested? I doubt it.

Anyway, you can look forward to your World War III because if, as you predicted, Julian Assange IS assassinated, his colleagues at Wikileaks will release the key to the locked documents and in all likelihood, nukes will be thrown. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

tl;dr wikileaks is justified in its actions.

-Summer Glau

Whatever happened to the prevailance of respect and safety? How come so many rival factions and corporations and individuals have to nip at eachother's coattails and ahnnilate eachother in an accumulating sense of pride and ultimatum? Why can't countries just freakin' get along so our children's children's won't have to suffer from the mistakes of their forefathers generations ago? But I guess that'll never happen... since everyone has to know everything so we can all be "equal" or some other BS that they throw around these days.

The major reason why I'm concerned about these documents being leaked freely on the Internet for anyone to download is that it leaves my country (and its people) vulnerable. For years, the United States has done its share of evils and goods; it's inevitable with such a large country. There will always be injustice in the world, but I for one know for a FACT that my government does much more good than evil. When he leaked that information for the whole world to see, that wasn't corruption; that was blackmail. If your country's list of top-secret locations were released on the Internet for the whole world to see, I'm sure you wouldn't be so comfortable with the idea that other organizations know your government's key locations and safehouses.

And it just frustrates me to think that he'd post something like that in a sense of retribution and freedom of speech. Putting a nation's safety and security in jepordy is taking things too far. Oh sure, it's all rosey and peachy now, but once s*** happens, it's not funny anymore; it's scary. It's down-right terrifying. To think that any day, any hour, any minute... your country can be destroyed from the inside-out. I know you're probably gonna bring up Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam, but this is different; this is a country that cannot fail.

You take down America, you take down the hopes and protection of nearly half of the world. United Kingdom, China, Japan, India, Africa, Brazil, Australia, Europe as a whole- ALL will be vulnerable and left wide-open for foreign terrorist groups to enter at will. And when those countries cry out for help, who's going to answer their plea? I sure as h*** know that everyone else is crap when it comes to their military prowness...

It's not freedom that bugs me; it's when people abuse it.
2010-12-10 00:20:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack
Posts: 5757


This is why I don't like getting into politics!2010-12-10 00:22:00

Author:
TheZimInvader
Posts: 3149


Isn't it convenient that he's been arrested for rape since what he's been doing with wikileaks isn't strictly illegal?

Hmmm...
http://asset.soup.io/asset/1300/7574_fbd9_500.png

I give it less than a year before he dies in a "car accident" or suffers from a fatal "heart attack" -_-
2010-12-10 00:26:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105


Well I think that people are just making this wikileaks thing worse than it should be, cause if the documents are so secret, then just find the guy who put it on there and arrest them.2010-12-10 00:33:00

Author:
Xero Space
Posts: 249


Oi, Xero! Back on topic!

Inanimacy, I know he's fuelling you, but you too!

Or so help me I will TURN THIS THREAD AROUND!

Ironically by posting this you're off topic.

I still don't understand WikiLeaks though!

So there's a secret website that has Leaked info of stuff the government doesn't want us to know? This sounds like a well thought out 4Chan troll thing rather than a legit site. . .
2010-12-10 00:34:00

Author:
Unknown User


Well I think that people are just making this wikileaks thing worse than it should be, cause if the documents are so secret, then just find the guy who put it on there and arrest them.

Because what he's doing isn't illegal. Hence the rape allegations.
2010-12-10 00:35:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105


Isn't it convenient that he's been arrested for rape since what he's been doing with wikileaks isn't strictly illegal?

Hmmm...
http://asset.soup.io/asset/1300/7574_fbd9_500.png

I give it less than a year before he dies in a "car accident" or suffers from a fatal "heart attack" -_-

I'm pretty sure your government would want Assange's head if he were to reveal the UK's nuclear codes.
2010-12-10 00:39:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack
Posts: 5757


It's the government. We've been saying that for years, but hey! What'll you do?

Well the government needs reform
2010-12-10 00:47:00

Author:
Xero Space
Posts: 249


Well I think that people are just making this wikileaks thing worse than it should be, cause if the documents are so secret, then just find the guy who put it on there and arrest them. Bradley Manning is the chap you're thinking of - he's been in solitary confinement since July.


Because what he's doing isn't illegal. Hence the rape allegations. Well the rape allegations are a bit of a complex issue and it's not as though - it is still possible they are actually genuine. Of course, the thing that is significant about them is the ferocity with which the authorities have been chasing him on this - which is completely uncharacteristic for a rape case, which is one of the main reasons it's considered suspicious, but then if you know the identity of the accused, it's not so much like a normal rape case.

But as I said, there is a lot of speculation on both sides about the convenience of the rape allegations - simply because no one actually knows....
2010-12-10 00:56:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


Bradley Manning is the chap you're thinking of - he's been in solitary confinement since July.

Well the rape allegations are a bit of a complex issue and it's not as though - it is still possible they are actually genuine. Of course, the thing that is significant about them is the ferocity with which the authorities have been chasing him on this - which is completely uncharacteristic for a rape case, which is one of the main reasons it's considered suspicious, but then if you know the identity of the accused, it's not so much like a normal rape case.

But as I said, there is a lot of speculation on both sides about the convenience of the rape allegations - simply because no one actually knows....

Oh, really? I actually didn't know that, I just heard of this whole thing, so I don't know much about this "scandal."
2010-12-10 01:32:00

Author:
Xero Space
Posts: 249


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpwVfl3m32w

A statement from the people that are fighting back

Update: Their irc channel is down
2010-12-10 05:31:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


There will always be injustice in the world, but I for one know for a FACT that my government does much more good than evil.

Well then you don't know jack **** about your government, jack.


this is a country that cannot fail.

This country failed since day one, guess you're not into history.


You take down America, you take down the hopes and protection of nearly half of the world. United Kingdom, China, Japan, India, Africa, Brazil, Australia, Europe as a whole- ALL will be vulnerable and left wide-open for foreign terrorist groups to enter at will. And when those countries cry out for help, who's going to answer their plea? I sure as h*** know that everyone else is crap when it comes to their military prowness...


I'll let the "America" slip even though from Canada to South America is AMERICA.
You mean U.S.
You take down the U.S and you're setting millions of people free, stopping a large chunk of global terrorism, and probably shooting up the world economy for countries investing in a place that can't pay them back.
I don't see what you're complaining about.
2010-12-10 06:03:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800


So there's a secret website that has Leaked info of stuff the government doesn't want us to know? This sounds like a well thought out 4Chan troll thing rather than a legit site. . .

That's putting it mildly but yeah that's pretty much what it is. The part you left out is that the Hacker has a great laugh when they leak out important information dealing with National security and the Terrorists laugh even harder.
There is nothing worse then a laughing Terrorist.
2010-12-10 06:22:00

Author:
KILLA_TODDZILLA
Posts: 653


Please guys, let's not turn this into an "Assange is a hero" / "Assange is the devil" argument. Polarised comments bringing out the ever-powerful T-word mindlessly, or hailing Assange as a saint who is leading the world into a brighter future aren't really going to be conducive to having a grown-up conversation on what is one of the most significant issues of the last few years.

And let's not get into a similar thing about whether Team America are the guardians of the world - it's completely ridiculous and all you're gonna have is a stupid argument on your hands


But realistically, the majority of what has been leaked has not been a national security risk. The majority of it has merely been highly embarrassing for governments all around the world. Yes, some of the stuff in Afganistan / Iraq was touching on being dangerous to troops, but there is a hell of a lot of things we should be thankful that have been exposed as well. This current release of cables isn't national security risk - nothing in them is above Secret classification, which is nothing really, millions of Americans have clearance for this level. Hell, even I have clearance for Secret documents (UK ones, naturally). Furthermore, if you don't want to take my word for it:
Secretary of Defence Robert Gates rightly characterised the latest releases as “embarrassing” and “awkward” but the consequences for their foreign policy “fairly modest”
That's from this article (http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/42068.html), which popped up in my twitterfeed this very morn. Despite the title (which does seem biased), it's basically a critique of the whole thing, and reasonably balanced.

At the moment, you pretty much can't move around the internet without finding scores of article published every day on the topic. I'd suggest that anyone who's views are polariased takes the time to read a selection, both pro and anti (or even agnostic) and remember that, as ever, if you can boil an issue as complex as this into a simple pro or anti opinion, then you've probably missed something
2010-12-10 10:46:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


So basically your saying nothing is black and white just shades of gray and the intensity of those depend on your point of view.

What a very diplomatic thing to say. I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying it is difficult not to take sides and have an impartial view. I thought the 2 videos on the previous page were quite helpful in understanding what is going on and it's impact.

Meanwhile...

This is probably quite interesting (http://www.anonops.info/) Server status for Anonops

Also a 16 yo boy has been arested for being involved with anonops irc
2010-12-10 11:04:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


Well yes, I'm firmly in the camp of Wikileaks being an overall good thing for our world and I don't expect anyone to be impartial. In honesty, the way in which they go about their business is something that I think is highly questionable, even if the concept in itself is something I believe to be just and the end results are positive.

Remember as well that I do have to act as moderator on this forum as well, so have to accept that political "debate" on the internet, and on this site, tends to devolve into little more than people with completely polarised viewpoints sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming at each other, then out come the personal insults and everyone loses. Whilst it's almost certainly inevitable, judging by past history, I'd rather it didn't happen any time soon.



Edit: Just found a Wikileaks Mirrorsite finder (http://wikileaks.antiwar.com/) - redirects you to the best mirror for your area.
2010-12-10 11:21:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


But realistically, the majority of what has been leaked has not been a national security risk. The majority of it has merely been highly embarrassing for governments all around the world.
I'd suggest that anyone who's views are polariased takes the time to read a selection, both pro and anti (or even agnostic) and remember that, as ever, if you can boil an issue as complex as this into a simple pro or anti opinion, then you've probably missed something

Yes, good advice. I definitely see both sides of the equation, although I lean in favour of transparency. If the embarrassment to officials who have been caught out causes them to reassess their clandestine hypocrisy, then all the better.

However, I do foresee that diplomatic relations between countries could well be damaged. One local example for us is the derogatory remarks of Australia's foreign minister (former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd) aimed at the military incompetence of some of our allies - and of course the exposure of all the dodgy stuff that goes on every day in china but other governments ignore because of trade dependancy. Of course, politicians could be big about it and ignore such comments under the rationale that they all do it, but of course they won't. They're politicians are are all about saving face. Pity. This could be a really good thing if handled correctly.

Edit: I must also add that I don't support the Hacktivist movements that have been trying (and succeeding in some cases such as 'Operation Payback&apos to shut down companies and financial institutions that severed ties with Wikileaks - because that just hurts the regular people in the community.
2010-12-10 12:16:00

Author:
BabyDoll1970
Posts: 1567


I hope this thread doesn't turn into a mess like you said RTM. I don't actually have an opinion on this. But I am interested in the thoughts of this issue. I may even collect my opinion and display it later on.

I do think the whole wikilinks thing is being over exaggerated. Next month we will forget this even happened.
2010-12-10 12:22:00

Author:
PPp_Killer
Posts: 449


Well then you don't know jack **** about your government, jack.

This country failed since day one, guess you're not into history.

I'll let the "America" slip even though from Canada to South America is AMERICA.
You mean U.S.
You take down the U.S and you're setting millions of people free, stopping a large chunk of global terrorism, and probably shooting up the world economy for countries investing in a place that can't pay them back.
I don't see what you're complaining about.

Well, the least you can do then is keep those thoughts to yourself and not insult the country I live in and its people. And I don't get how this ties into the Wikileaks scandal?

I find this as a targeted offense, not commentary.

And I'm sorry if I was in a more patriotic mood yesterday than I am normally. It's just that I hate itwhen confidential information is mishandled and is given into the wrong hands.
2010-12-10 14:35:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack
Posts: 5757


Please guys, let's not turn this into an "Assange is a hero" / "Assange is the devil" argument. Polarised comments bringing out the ever-powerful T-word mindlessly,
It's not a "mindless" comment, that's a well known fact that terrorists look for every angle to do not just "Team America" Harm , but Team UK,and Team GB, and any country that doesn't conform to our conflicting ideas of religion and differing national policies (such as assassinate your citizens and government officials gangsta style if they live outside the "Arab" box with no repercussions . I'm looking at you Middle east). It is a strong possibility that a young naive teenage genius with way too much time on their hands could open a virtual Pandora's box and that thought should not be taken lightly.


This is why I don't like getting into politics!
I'm with you sister .
2010-12-10 14:49:00

Author:
KILLA_TODDZILLA
Posts: 653


Well, the least you can do then is keep those thoughts to yourself and not insult the country I live in and its people.

I find this as a targeted offense, not commentary.

In fairness, your comments were just as offensive and irrelevant as they could be, so as far as I can see you pretty much reaped what you sowed. Please don't tell others to keep their opinions to themselves when you yourself are going to spout things like the following:


You take down America, you take down the hopes and protection of nearly half of the world. United Kingdom, China, Japan, India, Africa, Brazil, Australia, Europe as a whole- ALL will be vulnerable and left wide-open for foreign terrorist groups to enter at will. And when those countries cry out for help, who's going to answer their plea? I sure as h*** know that everyone else is crap when it comes to their military prowness...

It was off the back of yours and bremnen's posts that I asked to keep the topic on track, there is no need for this sort of thing. So please, can we drop it?


@Killer_todzilla: I agree that's a bad scenario, but that's not what's been happening here. It's what embarrassed politicians want you to believe has happened, but it isn't. In fact it's not even close to the scenario being discussed and yes, if that were to occur, it would be a terrible thing. Embarrassing a few politicians and exposing war crimes committed by our own troops is slightly less of a terrible thing. Of course, there is dodgey ground that wikileaks has stepped into from time to time, but the current issue, that has really sparked off all this, does not represent any national security threat.... So the overemphasis them "aiding terrorists" is over-dramatic and arguably misleading.
2010-12-10 15:03:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


Okay I've been rick rolled two times and sax rolled once trying to find these so called "leaks" that and some good recipes involving leeks (had an awesome soup a couple nights ago). How many of you actually saw these documents, and well,I'm not sasking for the link, but consider it a christmas gift *wink* *wink* oh sorry I think there was something in my eye.2010-12-10 18:36:00

Author:
Bradlee
Posts: 96


Well, the least you can do then is keep those thoughts to yourself and not insult the country I live in and its people. And I don't get how this ties into the Wikileaks scandal?

I find this as a targeted offense, not commentary.

And I'm sorry if I was in a more patriotic mood yesterday than I am normally. It's just that I hate itwhen confidential information is mishandled and is given into the wrong hands.

My deliberately large wall of text seems to have escaped you. Tale a look at the leaks, and listen to what rtm is saying.


You take down America, you take down the hopes and protection of nearly half of the world. United Kingdom, China, Japan, India, Africa, Brazil, Australia, Europe as a whole- ALL will be vulnerable and left wide-open for foreign terrorist groups to enter at will. And when those countries cry out for help, who's going to answer their plea? I sure as h*** know that everyone else is crap when it comes to their military prowness...

OH NOES HOW WILL POOR DEFENCELESS WORLD COPE WITHOUT AMERICA. I hate to say this, but for christ's sake, get a grip! America has never, ever, answered a country's cry for help when they have been attacked by terrorists. Are you actually suggesting that there are millions of terrorists, hidden under Europeans' beds, waiting for the US to fall so they can start a big terrorist party? All US wars in the past decade have been built on lies and deception (think Iraq) and Vietnam pretty much speaks for itself. I'm sorry I've had to rant about this but I couldn't just ignore this ludicrous display of total obliviousness (is this a word?) to the world outside of America.

Back on topic, Julian Assange has been moved to solitary confinement. This arrest is waay too suspicious. :L
2010-12-10 19:30:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


Solitary confinement?

Am I the only one getting the feeling we're being a bit too harsh on a hacker? It's starting to seem like the politicians got a little bit butthurt over the incident.

(P.S. Stop the U.S. Argument, for Sackj's sake. Both Overzealous patriotism and baseless demonizing are despondent, stupid arguments. The USA is a country, period. We just happen to be a bit bigger than some of the others and maybe more extravagant.)
2010-12-10 20:37:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046


Solitary confinement?

Am I the only one getting the feeling we're being a bit too harsh on a hacker? It's starting to seem like the politicians got a little bit butthurt over the incident.

He's not a hacker, he hasn't hacked anything. And he's not in prison for 'hacking,' he's there on allegations of rape.

... Even though he went on trial in august for the same case and it was dismissed due to a lack of evidence.

Edit, @Bradlee, just google 'wikileaks' and click the first link.
2010-12-10 21:02:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


Most epic wikileaks cable: S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 02 LONDON 000368
(http://www.ding.net/wikileaks/234867.txt)

I think the world society will get stronger of sites such as wikileaks.
2010-12-10 21:13:00

Author:
Smelling-Cowboy
Posts: 668


He's not a hacker, he hasn't hacked anything. And he's not in prison for 'hacking,' he's there on allegations of rape.

... Even though he went on trial in august for the same case and it was dismissed due to a lack of evidence.

Edit, @Bradlee, just google 'wikileaks' and click the first link.

Im pretty sure that the government cant put someone in jail for something they were already tried for before.
2010-12-10 21:57:00

Author:
Xero Space
Posts: 249


Im pretty sure that the government cant put someone in jail for something they were already tried for before.

Apparently there's new evidence, but no one has been told anything other than that. Also, he was tried in sweden, so maybe that helps? :L
2010-12-10 22:05:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


Edit: Xero, its the GOVERNMENT, they do what the **** they want.

According to Sarah Palin, if the government did what the **** they wanted, she'd be on a grizzly bear with a rifle hunting him down like the taliban.
2010-12-10 22:19:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


This threads getting pretty crazy eh? ......

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/funny-pictures-rabbit-eats-thread.jpg
2010-12-10 22:26:00

Author:
MrFunctionality
Posts: 637


Well, these people who think that Assange is like a terrorist are pretty stupid imo2010-12-10 23:25:00

Author:
Xero Space
Posts: 249


Not YOU again.

Pretty much my same reaction.
2010-12-10 23:38:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046


As far as i was able to read, rtm said 'team' america as a jab/minor insult/reference because the U.S likes to act like a global police and force themselves on other countries, not as a good thing.


Believe or not, I got that. The Team gave it away. He's not the fist to think so and thanks to W., he won't be the last by a long shot.
2010-12-11 00:23:00

Author:
KILLA_TODDZILLA
Posts: 653


I haven't been following this too closely but apart from the "rape" charges has Assange actually committed any crimes? Secret documents are leaked all the the time, surely doing it on a massive scale doesn't suddenly make it a crime.

On a completely non-political note, I live in the town where he grew up.
2010-12-11 01:28:00

Author:
SR20DETDOG
Posts: 2431


... and this is a point that I just love to bring up at times like this:

If you want drama, watch some politics.

Like I actually care about all of this...
2010-12-11 01:46:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack
Posts: 5757


... and this is a point that I just love to bring up at times like this:

If you want drama, watch some politics.

Like I actually care about all of this...

That's why I don't watch politics, or drama, or TV for that matter.
2010-12-11 02:36:00

Author:
Xero Space
Posts: 249


has Assange actually committed any crimes?

Wikileaks is not illegal. It's been dubbed so by a number of people that want it shut down, but of course, none of those people are capable of citing exactly which laws have been broken, which. Is very telling. Various other parties have attempted to nail down what might be illegal about it, i've not seen anything that actually manages that.

Oh and a couple of polititians have suggested that the laws should be changed and applied retroactively, simply so they can prosecute him for doing something that they don't like. Which is a scary scary scenario for democracy and freedom.

The guy who leaked the stuff almost certainly has broken laws (not that there is much media coverage of him, which is kinda ironic), but wikileaks hasn't
2010-12-11 12:21:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


Wikileaks is not illegal. It's been dubbed so by a number of people that want it shut down, but of course, none of those people are capable of citing exactly which laws have been broken, which. Is very telling. Various other parties have attempted to nail down what might be illegal about it, i've not seen anything that actually manages that.

Oh and a couple of polititians have suggested that the laws should be changed and applied retroactively, simply so they can prosecute him for doing something that they don't like. Which is a scary scary scenario for democracy and freedom.

The guy who leaked the stuff almost certainly has broken laws (not that there is much media coverage of him, which is kinda ironic), but wikileaks hasn't

O.k. I know you're probably gonna roll your eyes when you read this, and you're right about changing the rules to fit the needs and wants of the politicians being the wrong way to go about this. Here is where I know you'll disagree because I've said it before. Wikilinks whether it was created with the best intentions has the potential to be a real monster and it must be shut down. It's not the be all end all answer for blocking everything important that might get leaked ,but at least it won't be as accessible and concentrated with it gone. The content and amount of Information that is leaked cannot be controlled and therefore the website must be terminated before it's too late.
2010-12-11 19:01:00

Author:
KILLA_TODDZILLA
Posts: 653


Wikileaks is not illegal. It's been dubbed so by a number of people that want it shut down, but of course, none of those people are capable of citing exactly which laws have been broken, which. Is very telling. Various other parties have attempted to nail down what might be illegal about it, i've not seen anything that actually manages that.

Oh and a couple of polititians have suggested that the laws should be changed and applied retroactively, simply so they can prosecute him for doing something that they don't like. Which is a scary scary scenario for democracy and freedom.

The guy who leaked the stuff almost certainly has broken laws (not that there is much media coverage of him, which is kinda ironic), but wikileaks hasn't

I completely agree with you on most of this, I do believe it should be shut down because of what has happened, but about the whole changing the law, if they do that, that means they could pretty much make this world less free than it already is, and that's pretty small portion of every country.
2010-12-11 19:21:00

Author:
Xero Space
Posts: 249


O.k. I know you're probably gonna roll your eyes when you read this, and you're right about changing the rules to fit the needs and wants of the politicians being the wrong way to go about this. Here is where I know you'll disagree because I've said it before. Wikileaks whether it was created with the best intentions has the potential to be a real monster and it must be shut down. It's not the be all end all answer for blocking everything important that might get leaked ,but at least it won't be as accessible and concentrated with it gone. The content and amount of Information that is leaked cannot be controlled and therefore the website must be terminated before it's too late.

/rolls eyes

The closure of Wikileaks will set a precedent, and will make it easier for more websites to be shut down because the government doesn't like it. The thing is, we can't have mediums; we either have a totally free, uncensored net, or a carefully censored and controlled one. It is literally impossible to have anything in between those two extremes.

It all comes down to the fact that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely - give a man the power to delete anything on the internet that he doesn't like, and even if he has the absolute best of intentions, he will without doubt be corrupted by that power. The same would happen to the government if given the power to censor the internet.

Dangerous or not, Wikileaks must remain open. It's not a question of whether you believe in what Wikileaks does; it's a question of whether or not you wish for the internet to remain free.

On another note, rtm, I love you. You manage to articulate my exact thoughts into words that aren't offensive, something which I have difficulty doing. <3
2010-12-11 19:56:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


/rolls eyes



It all comes down to the fact that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely - give a man the power to delete anything on the internet that he doesn't like, and even if he has the absolute best of intentions, he will without doubt be corrupted by that power.

My point Exactly but in a different context. Lets hope when (not if ) I'm proven right, you will be able to protect you and your family with your Freedom of information the way it will be used against you.
2010-12-11 20:34:00

Author:
KILLA_TODDZILLA
Posts: 653


My point Exactly but in a different context. Lets hope when (not if ) I'm proven right, you will be able to protect you and your family with your Freedom of information the way it will be used against you.

All opinion is subjective. It is your opinion that you are right, and not fact. You also can't predict the future with any reliable degree of accuracy. Present your ideas, but do not present them as irrevocable fact.

And how exactly will freedom of information be used against me, personally?
2010-12-11 20:57:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


all opinion is subjective. It is your opinion that you are right, and not fact. You also can't predict the future with any reliable degree of accuracy. Present your ideas, but do not present them as irrevocable fact.

And how exactly will freedom of information be used against me, personally?

You don't believe someone could post information that seemed innocuous enough and it could be the genesis of catastrophic event like a 911 ? I'm not saying the site is evil I'm saying Freedom of all information should NEVER exist. Put it this way, were you upset when your parents told you not to play with matches when you were young? Can you filter the information that gets leaked? If you can then by all means keep the site up otherwise someone will get burned.
2010-12-11 21:07:00

Author:
KILLA_TODDZILLA
Posts: 653


O.k. I know you're probably gonna roll your eyes when you read this, and you're right about changing the rules to fit the needs and wants of the politicians being the wrong way to go about this. Here is where I know you'll disagree because I've said it before. Wikilinks whether it was created with the best intentions has the potential to be a real monster and it must be shut down. It's not the be all end all answer for blocking everything important that might get leaked ,but at least it won't be as accessible and concentrated with it gone. The content and amount of Information that is leaked cannot be controlled and therefore the website must be terminated before it's too late.

That right there.
There's potential to stab someone in the throat with a pencil, do you make pencils illegal?
There's potential that monday a student is going to walk into their school and shoot up their classmates, do you close down schools?
Someone dies from a bad batch of Tylenol(again..) do you stop making medicine?
When planes get hijacked or crash does the entire world freak out and stop flying, or destroy all planes?

Theres a huge difference between the potential for something to happen and it actually happening.
It's been said in this thread already that none of the documents released were of any great harm and that wikileaks has gone through the documents to make sure of that.

It's the fear of something happening that makes people do stupid crap and overreact.
Ex: Columbine.
After the columbine shooting parents and schools all over the U.S overreacted and started making students wear uniforms, go through metal detectors, get searched, put POLICE with GUNS on GRADESCHOOL campuses,truancy laws, made illogical rules and freedom the equivalent of getting expelled. Yes, 'Insubordination' is something a student can get in trouble for at school.
Insubordination is freedom.

Then parents and the school wonder why noone wants to go to school.
Theres more of a chance of getting shot by the police officer than there is by another student.

All because of the fear for the potential of something to happen.
2010-12-11 21:08:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800


You don't believe someone could post information that seemed innocuous enough and it could be the genesis of catastrophic event like a 911 ? I'm not saying the site is evil I'm saying Freedom of all information should NEVER exist. Put it this way, were you upset when your parents told you not to play with matches when you were young? Can you filter the information that gets leaked? If you can then by all means keep the site up otherwise someone will get burned.

Bremnen said it; Wikileaks filters the documents. They haven't released (technically) the dangerous stuff, anything that is released merely exposes the US government for what it is.

However, they have released some very, very dangerous files. They're locked with a 256-digit key or something though, so they're pretty safe. Wikileaks have said that if Assange is murdered or arrested (as a political prisoner), they will release the files.
2010-12-11 21:20:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


Ahhhh another political quagmire. Should be interesting.

2010-12-11 22:39:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578


Oh and a couple of polititians have suggested that the laws should be changed and applied retroactively, simply so they can prosecute him for doing something that they don't like. Which is a scary scary scenario for democracy and freedom.

Oh true that. This rang familiar for me, so I looked up the term I'd learned in my American civics class. Ex post facto laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law) Are prohibited in the U.S. (By Constitution, it's right next to Habeas Corpus), U.K. (Criminal Laws), and Sweden (Constitution as well), and the countries where it isn't frowned upon or banned probably don't have anything stopping them anyways. If they tried to pull this it would be... nasty, to say the least.
2010-12-11 22:42:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046


I thought some people would find this interesting.

There's an organisation in Australia called GetUp (http://www.getup.org.au/about/).


Dear Friend,

Sarah Palin wants Julian Assange hunted as a terrorist 1. She's among a swelling chorus of American politicians calling for the arrest - and even the death - of the Australian citizen who runs Wikileaks. It's a shame that real terrorists, of the kind that we should be focusing our attention, don't show up at British Police stations with their lawyers, as Wikileaks founder Julian Assange did yesterday.

Here in Australia, Prime Minister Gillard pre-emptively judged Mr. Assange "illegal," even as the Attorney General confirmed that no Australian nor international crime by wikileaks has been identified 2.

The death penalty? Judgment before trial? This isn't the kind of justice system we have in Australia. If our Government won't stand up for the rights of Australian citizens, let's do it ourselves.

We're printing a huge ad in prominent American newspapers with the statement our Government should have made - signed by as many Australians as possible. Will you add your name to the signatories, and invite your friends to join too?

http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/mediafreedom

The statement:

Dear President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder:

We, as Australians, condemn calls for violence, including assassination, against Australian citizen, Julian Assange, or for him to be labeled a terrorist, enemy combatant or be treated outside the ordinary course of justice in any way.

Australia and the United States are the strongest of allies. Our soldiers serve side by side to this day. We've experienced, and condemned, the consequences of terrorism together. To label Wikileaks a terrorist organisation is an insult to those Australians and Americans who have lost their lives to acts of terrorism and to terrorist forces.

As Thomas Jefferson said, "information is the currency of democracy" 3. Publishing leaked information in collaboration with major news outlets, as Wikileaks and Mr. Assange have done, is not a terrorist act.

If Wikileaks or their staff have broken international or national laws, let that case be heard in a just and fair court of law. At the moment, no such charges have been brought. We are writing as Australians to say what our Government should have: all Australian citizens deserve to be free from persecution, threats of violence and detention without charge, especially from our friend and ally, the United States.

We're printing this statement in the Washington Times and New York Times early next week - and the more Australians sign, the more powerful the message will be. Please add your name by clicking below, and forward this message to friends and family:

http://www.getup.org.au/campaign/mediafreedom

What has started with WikiLeaks being branded as terrorists won't end there.

In fact, just yesterday U.S. Senator Joe Lieberman, Chair of the Senate's Homeland Security Committee, said that the New York Times should also be investigated under the U.S. Espionage Act for publishing a number of the diplomatic cables leaked to Wikileaks 4. We can help stop such plans in their tracks, by showing how they are affecting the image of the US in the eyes of their staunchest friends and allies.

Click here to sign the statement before it's published in the New York Times and Washington Times.

Thanks for being part of this,
the GetUp team.


---

[1] Beckford, M., 'Sarah Palin: hunt WikiLeaks founder like al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders', The Telegraph, 30 November 2010.

[2] Oakes, L., 'Oakes: Gillard gushes over US leaks', Perth Now, 4 December 2010.

[3] The quote is widely attributed to Jefferson, but some now dispute whether he actually said it. We know, at least, that he said "knowledge is power," even if Francis Bacon did say it first.

[4] Savage, C., 'U.S. prosecuters study WikiLeaks prosecution', The New York Times, 7 December 2010.

At the time of posting this they've already raised $350,000 Aus
2010-12-12 00:34:00

Author:
SR20DETDOG
Posts: 2431


And just to add insult to injury...


N. Korea ridicules U.S. for being ensnared in WikiLeaks saga

SEOUL, Dec. 13 (Yonhap) -- North Korea belittled the United States on Monday for troubles caused by diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks and accused American diplomats of spying across the world, while remaining silent on revelations involving Pyongyang itself.

The report carried in the North's Rodong Sinmun, the ruling party's daily, appeared to underscore the interest the communist country has in the cables that have revealed fresh but unpolished details about U.S. diplomatic activities around the world.

Great that's all you need!
2010-12-13 08:28:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


That right there.
There's potential to stab someone in the throat with a pencil, do you make pencils illegal?
There's potential that monday a student is going to walk into their school and shoot up their classmates, do you close down schools?
Someone dies from a bad batch of Tylenol(again..) do you stop making medicine?
When planes get hijacked or crash does the entire world freak out and stop flying, or destroy all planes?

Theres a huge difference between the potential for something to happen and it actually happening.
It's been said in this thread already that none of the documents released were of any great harm and that wikileaks has gone through the documents to make sure of that.
yes, BUT we are NOT talking about a pencil or medicine, we're talking about national security (lucky I don't live in the US eh? )
2010-12-13 09:23:00

Author:
YEAH_NAH
Posts: 775


yes, BUT we are NOT talking about a pencil or medicine, we're talking about national security (lucky I don't live in the US eh? )

You fail to see the point - I'll write it in big letters so you can read and comprehend it properly.

READ THE CABLES. SEE ANYTHING INTERESTING? NO? THAT'S BECAUSE THE RELEASED CABLES AREN'T DANGEROUS.
2010-12-13 16:45:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


I guess I am a bit confused. I always am so no matter... lol

If I rob a liquor store and some 3rd party gives away or sells the ill gotten goods that is illegal right? or not?

If I break into a private company and walk out with all their emails talking bad about their competitors.. is that illegal? What if I simply post those documents because someone else hacked into their system and sold them to me? Is that illegal? It might ruin their business from bad press, but it wasn't secrets of how they made their spaghetti sauce and they make the best ever!

What if I hack into your private computers and then decide it would be fun to post that information so all your friends can see what you really think about them. Oh.. it isn't secret stuff, it is just that it was where you intended no one to ever see. It might ruin someones reputation or something, but full disclosure is what is important right?

What if your inner most private thoughts whatever they are could some how be displayed just by walking by a panel that someone invented?

I understand the willingness for the free and open sharing of all information, but is that really what you want? Do countries have no rights for internal operating discussions and procedures? If not.. could someone hack into North Korea and Iraq to see what they are REALLY up to please? lol

I guess what I am asking is what if no country, company, organization, or individual could ever have ANY private thoughts or conversations with a close friend or ally? Everything is out in the open no matter what. Is that freedom?

..and is it simply a process of picking and choosing things that were communicated in private that are not dangerous? Then who is to decide what is not dangerous? Some world committee? What about the stuff that was dangerous to know since they now have already seen it?

I am really not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone's comments or posts. I'm just curious is all and offering a few other perspectives.
2010-12-13 17:24:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383


What if person A [a government] has been lying to their spouse [the citizens] about things they'd been doing behind their back and they confide in person B [the leaker], then person B lets slip to you? If it's something that the spouse deserves to know, as it might directly impact the trust, then maybe they really should be told?

http://sowhyiswikileaksagoodthingagain.com/ is clearly a biassed site, the name alone proves that, and only promotes certain aspects of the whole issue (and actually has nothing to do with the cables, mostly the preceding things to do with wars etc.), but tell me that those are things that our governments should be allowed to hide from us?


WRT the dangerousness, it really does hinge on what the leakers (not hackers - not sure if we've made that point enough times yet) can get their hands on. The cables, as mentioned before only go as high as "secret", which really isn't a big deal. As you go up higher, there are significantly fewer people with access and the protection of the documents is much firmer - in those cases I think there as much to be said for internal security policy as anything else. This should really be seen as a kick up the **** to our leaders to be careful with things that matter. In the modern world, you can't get away from the potential for your secrets to get out and if you allow that to happen, then the modern world enables them to be everywhere instantly - that's a very simple reality and has nothing to do with a single website or individual - it's certainly not something you can deal with with reactionary measures - by the time you've reacted to shut down leakers, it's too late, which is why the focus on blaming Assange is nonsense.
2010-12-13 18:10:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


What if person A [a government] has been lying to their spouse [the citizens] about things they'd been doing behind their back and they confide in person B [the leaker], then person B lets slip to you? If it's something that the spouse deserves to know, as it might directly impact the trust, then maybe they really should be told?

Good point and probably cause for concern.

What if it is an employee that spends quite a bit of time on LBPC during work hours? Is that only a concern if their performance drops? ...or could they have accomplished even more without the distraction? ...or like me think a healthy mental diversion is a good thing here and there?

What if it is a kid in school sneaking on the internet via his iPhone where he is supposed to be studying or paying attention in class?

I guess it just depends on the case as well as the perspective?
2010-12-13 18:37:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383


You fail to see the point - I'll write it in big letters so you can read and comprehend it properly.

READ THE CABLES. SEE ANYTHING INTERESTING? NO? THAT'S BECAUSE THE RELEASED CABLES AREN'T DANGEROUS.

The point isTHEY HAVE THE DANGEROUS ONES AND THAT SHOULD NOT BE.
2010-12-13 19:03:00

Author:
KILLA_TODDZILLA
Posts: 653


Out of curiosity,

a) How many people here have actually read any of the leaked documents?
b) How many people here only became interested in Wikileaks because of the media?
2010-12-14 00:08:00

Author:
SR20DETDOG
Posts: 2431


1) I read the beginning to one of the leaks. Usually, I'm a guy who can take boring information and enjoy it, but come on, they're diplomatic cables. Even the nerd can only take so much. I'll take the lazy and irresponsible man's approach in waiting for others to summarize them. As such, I won't comment on individual ones.

2) I had heard about them before, but what's really interesting here is the fallout.
2010-12-14 04:37:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046


Assange released on bail:

http://blogs.forbes.com/parmyolson/2010/12/14/julian-assange-granted-bailed/?boxes=marketschannelnews
2010-12-14 19:28:00

Author:
Richasackboy
Posts: 619


I'm not really that concerned with this issue. I actually think it's quite silly, although I do understand the severity of releasing top secret documents that may put other countries or even individuals at risk. Let the people know what the people want to know.2010-12-15 00:37:00

Author:
dragonember
Posts: 607


the point isthey have the dangerous ones and that should not be.

they didnt release them. Stop being scared illogically.

Fear is the beginning of war.
2010-12-15 04:02:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800


Fear is the beginning of war.

Actually, 'W' is the beginning of war.
2010-12-15 05:36:00

Author:
jalr2d2
Posts: 256


Actually, 'W' is the beginning of war.

LOLOLOL I C WHAT YOU DID THAR
Not funny.
2010-12-15 05:44:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qHezPG4gH5Y/SsuJImmWh7I/AAAAAAAAAAs/koJrpFRmCeU/s400/y_so_serious_cat-12947.jpg

The way I really see it (not that BS I sputtered out earler ) is this:
Info is leaked.
Assange is killed.
World points fingers and scolds USA <-- So you won't get butt-hurt when I say "America" or "the Western world as a whole".
USA's government responds in the worst way possible.
Some country that hates the USA (North Korea, Pakistan, Iran, etc.) nukes DC or some ally of the USA, causing World War III.
In the end, North Korea falls, Israel is ravaged, and China and the USA are left to clean everything up, along with any other European country that gives a care.
Barrack Obama finally resigns office after his second term, being the only Democrat in history to do so.
World peace... a couple million years in the future... if at all.
(I'll make sure to find a comfortable spot to put my lawn chair, so I can see the political circus unfold...)

I find it funny how people wish for Assange to be liberated of all charges and for the USA to crawl into a hole and die... they ain't gonna happen. Not by a longshot. And I'm only saying this now because the CIA or some other shady organization probably killed off Assange already and won't admit it until well into 2011... after World War III erupts.

It's like a "nuclear conga line": get enough drama queens lined up in it and BOOOM! The whole thing blows up! xD
2010-12-15 07:02:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack
Posts: 5757


I find it funny how people wish for Assange to be liberated of all charges and for the USA to crawl into a hole and die...they ain't gonna happen. Not by a longshot. And I'm only saying this now because the CIA or some other shady organization probably killed off Assange already and won't admit it until well into 2011

No one wants the US to drop charges, because the US hasn't pressed any charges against Assange, because they don't have anything to charge him with... Recent reports suggest they've been in meetings trying to work out some legal loophole through which they can charge him for a crime that hasn't been committed (good to see our politicians resort to inventing laws to try and distract from their own ineptitude). Though reports of "secret" meetings and what is going on inside them, who knows how accurate that is.

Oh and I'm sure Assange is dead, that's why he's been granted bail - no need to worry about him running away Anyways, if the plan is to hunt him down "like Osama Bin Laden" I'd say he'll be pretty safe for the next decade or so Not that they actually would go gunning for him because they can't dream up charges, only a moron would suggest such a thing. Case in point: Sarah Palin
2010-12-15 10:21:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


Not that they actually would go gunning for him because they can't dream up charges, only a moron would suggest such a thing. Case in point: Sarah Palin

I am declaring right here...right now that I am done with General Chat. It's bad enough that there's been so many conversations bashing the U.S. or capitalism, but so much of it has gotten mean spirited. Case in point.
2010-12-15 10:45:00

Author:
TheCountessZ
Posts: 537


Well I appologise for light-heartedly mocking a political figure who is widely renowned for making regular gaffes and regrettable outbursts / mistakes due to speaking before thinking (of course, she's not as reknowned for this sort of things as say George W Bush or Prince Charles, but she certainly is certainly trying to compete). I'm sure she is a very capable Politician and we should support her when she calls for government-sanctioned murder of foreign civilians who have committed no crime. She truly is a commendable human being for wishing death upon others. Go her!

And in a non-sarcastic manner, sorry if I've offended any other members of our community here. Nothing "mean-spirited" I've said has been directed at any of you, so if anything I have said has been ambiguous to have been misinterpreted in such a manner, feel free to let me know directly
2010-12-15 11:05:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


Politicians have been using the "Lives will be put at risk" line for decades when-ever they want their dirty laundry kept secret.
In nearly every case it was found out later that they were saying that, not because there were people who's lives were at risk, but to protect their own interests.

If they have specific knowledge of an individual who's life is now at risk because of the revelations from Wikileaks, then it is their duty to remove that person from that situation.
But try and get a specific "Who? - name a name" from a politician and I guarantee they will not come forward with one.

If you notice a politician who uses the "Lives are at risk" default excuse, then please - for the sake of democracy - do NOT ever vote for them.

Has Palin uttered that default phrase? - Why yes, yes she has
Did she give any specifics? No, no she didn't - surprise surprise
2010-12-15 13:01:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


Assange to be freed on bail later today (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/16/assange_free/) - he was still being held while the appeal went through, but it has been overthrown.

Oh and I can read deleted posts, so you know for future
2010-12-16 14:08:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


I think it's astounding that he hasn't even been charged with anything - and yet they are treating him like some kind of international crime lord. They only want him for questioning - have Sweden ever acted so vigourously to extradite someone for an 'alleged' minor sexual assault (if you can even classify it as that?) ;

And they try and say that the strings in the books aren't pulled or persuaded?

The real victim here isn't the diplomats who have been embarrassed, but the concept of freedom of speech and freedom of press and impartiality of the law that we were all told actually existed
2010-12-16 15:22:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


Anyone that still shares the US government's view on wikileaks should take a look at this (http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/Guantanamo's_Immediate_Reaction_Force_still_terror izing_detainees/index.html).

It documents the arrest and torture of an innocent Muslim man in Guantanamo Bay. He was blinded in one eye, raped, beaten, had his face smeared in faeces and was subjected to 'enhanced interrogation.'

Does anyone here think that's fair and should be kept secret?
2010-12-18 21:24:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


Here's one on Iran/NK missile programs http://213.251.145.96/cable/2010/02/10STATE17263.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl4NlA97GeQ&feature=player_embedded
2010-12-19 08:42:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qHezPG4gH5Y/SsuJImmWh7I/AAAAAAAAAAs/koJrpFRmCeU/s400/y_so_serious_cat-12947.jpg

Barrack Obama finally resigns office after his second term,

What the hell do you mean by "finally"?
2010-12-19 13:08:00

Author:
TheBlackKnight22
Posts: 695


Anyone that still shares the US government's view on wikileaks should take a look at this (http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/Guantanamo's_Immediate_Reaction_Force_still_terror izing_detainees/index.html).

It documents the arrest and torture of an innocent Muslim man in Guantanamo Bay. He was blinded in one eye, raped, beaten, had his face smeared in faeces and was subjected to 'enhanced interrogation.'

Does anyone here think that's fair and should be kept secret?

Thats why guantanamo bay should be closed down, but NOooooooo. People are to scared to have "terrorists" in normal prisons. I think its funny because we have worse people. If I would either have to fight some guy in prison, with tatoos all over and a shank in his hand, or a terrorist, who do you think I'd choose?
2010-12-19 13:14:00

Author:
TheBlackKnight22
Posts: 695


What the hell do you mean by "finally"?


Thats why guantanamo bay should be closed down, but NOooooooo. People are to scared to have "terrorists" in normal prisons. I think its funny because we have worse people. If I would either have to fight some guy in prison, with tatoos all over and a shank in his hand, or a terrorist, who do you think I'd choose?

There's a multiquote button, to the right of the reply with quote button. It saves having to double post.

And 'shank' has a very different meaning in London, I can assure you. I don't believe Guantanamo Bay should be shut down though; I believe it should be controlled with total transparency. That would prevent any unnecessary torture and other things.
2010-12-19 13:21:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


Yeah it was an accident but regarding the word "shank" what does it mean there :o? Here it means a knife...2010-12-20 01:11:00

Author:
TheBlackKnight22
Posts: 695


So, news and developments have been pretty slow this last week, but the UN has issued a statement, where they comment about a lot of the things that have happened in a very cagey and non-specific way. Is good reading for those of you genuinely interested in the wider implications of the wikileaks phenomenon., though it does seem like the UN actually want start dictating specifics of the diplomatic cables

http://www.cidh.oas.org/relatoria/showarticle.asp?artID=829&lID=1

Found via this article:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/23/united_nations_on_wikileaks_kerfuffle/
2010-12-23 22:39:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


I honestly don't care whats going on with this guy.... They paint him as some big criminal mastermind and he's not. I don't think the government should withhold info from us. but you have to know that All presidents had secrets, and ALL governments have secrets too.2010-12-23 22:46:00

Author:
TheBlackKnight22
Posts: 695


And Julian was interviewed whilst in house arrest.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZCPmTJM0Hc

I was hoping he'd mention the charges against him about the sexual assault, because they say he denied the allegations, but to what extent?
2010-12-23 22:46:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105


I must admit that i'm not entirely fussed about julian assange, it is a real shame that so much coverage is on a single individual and so much is being sidelined. I'll bet that the UN official statement gets less media coverage than julian's bail hearing, which is ridiculous2010-12-23 22:51:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


He's not a terrorist and its not treasonous and he shouldn't be assassinated. In fact I'm kind of disappointed in people on both sides calling him a terrorist and it's shocking that FOX and Palin and the like call for "illegal" assassination. They even say ILLEGAL!!! Well I guess I shouldn't be shocked by them anymore.2010-12-23 22:59:00

Author:
TheBlackKnight22
Posts: 695


Julian Assange is guilty of nothing except for running the website that published the information that was illegally leaked but someone else; he did nothing that the other news organizations that published the leaks did, he just happened to own Wikileaks, which had the news first. If we detain or kill him because of that... I wonder who owns the New York Times, the Guardian, or, for that matter, FOX news? See what I mean?
Their logic is so broken it's funny.
/My opinion.
2010-12-23 23:40:00

Author:
Stoicrow
Posts: 276


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRwYIFP4ep0

LOL, in the spirit of christmas
2010-12-23 23:56:00

Author:
MrFunctionality
Posts: 637


I honestly don't care whats going on with this guy.... They paint him as some big criminal mastermind and he's not. I don't think the government should withhold info from us. but you have to know that All presidents had secrets, and ALL governments have secrets too.

And we are now in a new age of freedom of information, with all of us - each and every one - able to disseminate information to the public at large in an immediate and uncencored fashion.
This means it's now much harder for governments to keep things secret - which they don't like - they feel that they should be able to know our secrets but we should not be allowed to know theirs, despite the fact that they work for us... we are their boss, not the other way around.

Question is, do you think it's right that governments say one thing and do another - or should we be informed when they act and talk in a duplicitous manner?

None of these leaks would be embarrassing for the diplomats if they acted in the manner we would expect them to.
2010-12-24 10:54:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


The only people who should be charged are the ones who actually stole the information. And you know, there are such things as CLASSIFIED information and its against the LAW to take them so no matter what we say about freedom of information and this and that it's still illegal. I believe that the government should be open with us but you know, there will never be TOTAL transparency. I believe the president has taken steps towards that though, for example he HAS voluntarily kept full disclosure of all visitors to the white house.2010-12-24 16:16:00

Author:
TheBlackKnight22
Posts: 695


And you know, there are such things as CLASSIFIED information and its against the LAW to take them so no matter what we say about freedom of information and this and that it's still illegal.

Actually, it depends on the nature of the classified information as well. Some classified things would be considered perfectly fine to leak, if they represent information that is important to public interest and is not inherently a significant security risk. As ever, the whole thing is far more complex than any of us really grasp I think.
2010-12-24 16:44:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


I believe the man should be released, i think there would be much more darker secrets about america that could be hiding somewhere, they know a lot of things we dont and as a species i believe we need to stop keeping everything locked in boxes and let everybody know whats going on without their consent. there have been things that people have gone their whole life without knowing and its better to know than to go your whole life wondering.2010-12-24 19:23:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513


Actually, it depends on the nature of the classified information as well. Some classified things would be considered perfectly fine to leak, if they represent information that is important to public interest and is not inherently a significant security risk. As ever, the whole thing is far more complex than any of us really grasp I think.

Good point sir. lol
2010-12-25 02:42:00

Author:
TheBlackKnight22
Posts: 695


IMPORTANT UPDATE:

If you have been following wikileaks on twitter the US government now possess your Username/Full name/IP address/Postal address/Phone account information/Bank details (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/01/07/twitter/subpoena.pdf)

Yeah great! We'll trust you even more now! And seeing as the twitter information is held on a server in the US they are entitled to do this, however I do question the legitimicy of finding out bank details etc of non US citizens.
2011-01-09 09:32:00

Author:
Strangepom
Posts: 445


very interesting. perhaps they are hiding something2011-01-09 10:26:00

Author:
unXpectiD
Posts: 1132


very interesting. perhaps they are hiding something

Yes, perhaps, maybe, just MAYBE they might be. If only somebody could expose whatever it is they are hiding....
2011-01-09 11:02:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812


Username: Meh, I don't think I care much for a username.
Full name: Doubt I have my true name posted on th webs, I may, but I don't recall doings so at all.
IP address: Ok, maybe this one. XD
Postal address: Not sure how they'll get this one, just like my name, I don't use the real one online.
Phone account information: Don't have one.
Bank details: Don't have one.


Don't they always have everyone's IP's tho?
Or is this only for twitter users?
2011-01-09 11:11:00

Author:
Silverleon
Posts: 6707


Hey guys,

I posted a blog about Wikileaks yesterday. You can read about it here. (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/entry.php?2962-Justification-for-Wikileaks-based-on-the-ideas-of-Plato)

Basically, it gives a brief overview of how the government is tricking us into believing what they want us to believe and preventing us from getting to know the true reality of things. It is quite an insightful post so be sure to check it out!


Full name: Doubt I have my true name posted on th webs, I may, but I don't recall doings so at all.

I think I might know your name
2011-01-09 18:47:00

Author:
Enlong3
Posts: 357


Finally getting the names of all those rich, immoral bar stewards who have been secretly squirrelling their ill-gotten gains into the ole swiss off-shore bank account.

The 40 richest people in the world have been using this loophole for years to get out of paying back to society what they owe.
I hope they all end up in the poor house... or better yet, the Jail House
2011-01-19 17:28:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


I have hundreds or thousands of Wikileaks torrents in my "TOP SECRET" folder.2011-01-20 03:26:00

Author:
Cauan-XV
Posts: 491


So Julian Assange has lost his appeal against extradition (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12564865).

So he now faces sexual assualt/rape charges in Sweden - where the evidence will be presented in secret - scuppering attempts for public scrutiny of the "evidence" against him.
Glad to know he'll be getting a fair, unbais, non-politically motivated trial then

Let that be a lessen to any other "truth campaigners" - annoy the authorities and they will find a way to blacken your name - even if you are innocent.

If you search "Rape" in google - 1/3rd of all hits are regarding Julian Assange... that is how successfully they have blackened his name already - despite the fact he hasn;t yet been found guilty of anything.

Then once he's in Sweden, they will most likely extradite him to America to face comepletely different (trumped up) charges designed to further discredit him and his "truth campaign", and possibly face the death penalty.

Ahh, isn't it nice to see "Justice" in action? - rather than vilify the Politicians for their duplicity - lets attack the person who revealed the lie
2011-02-24 14:48:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


I don't know, you seem to be pretty quick to judge yourself here. Maybe, just maybe, he will get a fair trial.2011-02-24 15:01:00

Author:
Syroc
Posts: 3193


I don't know, you seem to be pretty quick to judge yourself here. Maybe, just maybe, he will get a fair trial.

You are relying on the impartiality of Swedish courts?
When it is already evident that they are willing to bend Swedish law in order to comply with their American benefactors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay#Raid)

I don't see how it's possible for him to get a fair trial - when the charges themselves are politically motivated.

We'll see.
2011-02-24 15:14:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


Appeal hasn't happened yet... He's got a week for that from today, as far as I understand.2011-02-24 15:32:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


Appeal hasn't happened yet... He's got a week for that from today, as far as I understand.

Wasn't the ruling against an existing appeal? - oh I see, they are appealing the ruling

& You'd think that with the Judge saying that Sweden's PM had had "improper intervention" in the case, any appeal would stand, right?

Who wants to place money on him being extradited anyway? That seems like good odds.
2011-02-24 15:48:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


The truth will set you free...unless your Julian Assange.2011-02-24 16:28:00

Author:
OCK
Posts: 1536


The truth will set you free...unless your Julian Assange.

I shouldn't laugh... but that was funny
2011-02-24 16:30:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


Yeah but it shouldn't be, that's the sad part. People say they want the truth but when there is money and power involved the truth becomes irrelevant or rather, money and power become the ultimate "truth". Let's wait and see how things play out, I hope Assange survives somehow (assuming he is innocent).2011-02-24 16:39:00

Author:
OCK
Posts: 1536


That's the thing, even the ladies in question which the charges relate to have said that they never intended for him to be accussed of rape - as far as we can tell based on what evidence there is in the public domain - it seems that it all hinges on a broken condom... Julian Assange never forced himself on the women, the sex was consensual - but due to quirky Swedish law, failing to wear a condom can constitute rape - or, so it seems, having a condom fail while on the job

Also, one of the women once wrote a blog entited "7 Steps to legal revenge on your ex-boyfriend" which includes "Accuse him of rape".

The case has already been dismissed before as having "No Case to Answer" - then after the Wikileaks story broke - surprise, surprise - the accusations resurfaced.
If ever there was a clear, cut & dry, no contest politically motivated trial - then this is it.


Quote from one of the accusers:
"In both cases, the sex had been consensual from the start..."
2011-02-24 16:53:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


Just throwing this out there, but, has the name Bradley Manning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning) even crossed anyone's mind? IMO he's been just as important in the whole wikileaks fiasco as Julian Assange, if not more. Yet everyone seems so fixated on Julian Assange to even notice.2011-02-24 23:47:00

Author:
SR20DETDOG
Posts: 2431


It has, although I'm not sure if they have here on LBPC.2011-02-25 00:10:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046


It has, although I'm not sure if they have here on LBPC.

The thing is, what Manning did was actually illegal - stealing secret documents, in contravention to him agreeing to the official secrets act(or whatever the American equivolent would be for Servicemen). If someone deserves to be punished for this, it would be him.

But, Julian Assange is essentially just a journalist who recieved a story, and is now being criminalised for telling it. Going against every principle of freespeech & freedom of the press. That's why there is a bigger focus on Assange (as well as the clear attempt to side-track the actually story from one of political corruption, to one of an individual wrong doing - happliy they're not fooling anyone)
2011-02-25 13:47:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970


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