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A nail in the coffin of alternative music?

Archive: 46 posts

Now, I've always listened to music that would be described as indie or non-mainstream, and for many years I have found internet review site Pitchfork the ideal place to find good music that you wouldn't hear too often on commercial radio. Over the years, Pitchfork has played a significant role in bringing wider attention to interesting new bands emerging on the indie scene like Arcade Fire and Fleet Foxes, and I always thought I could depend on them to champion the underdogs of the music industry.

However, recently a worrying trend has started to emerge at Pitchfork, and if you visit the website now you will find that their top reviews include mainly "MTV" artists like Jay-Z, Rihanna, and Kanye West, to whom they gave a perfect 10/10 for his new album. They even have Professor Green advertising Doritos on their main page. I worry that mainstream pop-noodle musak has finally taken over the music industry completely. Even the die hard indie kids are now professing their undying admiration for the creative "genius" of Kanye West and hailing him as the greatest artist of the decade. Well I've listened to Kanye's album and I think it's ok, musically catchy with some good hooks, highly polished production behind it, and typical gangsta bigging up himself up type lyrics, but it's not particularly interesting, challenging or diverse. Of course most people appreciate mainstream music for those simple hooks, catchy beats and cool gangsta lyrics, and not everyone wants to be challenged by unusual music that falls outside of the box, but I'm guessing that I'm not the only weirdo left on planet earth and that there are others like me who crave something different from the standard fare that MTV and radio attempt to force feed us.

With artists like Jay-Z dominating the airwaves on repeat play all day every day, it's hard enough already for new bands with niche or experimental sounds to get the exposure they need to gain an audience and keep the ball rolling in their careers, but with indie champions Pitchfork now seeming to have completely "sold out" it seems that things are only gonna get worse for the alternative music scene.

Am I over reacting? Maybe. Am I the only one who still wants to hear music that comes from the heart and the soul, and not from the wallet and the groin? Probably. But anyhow, I?d be interested to hear the thoughts of others on this subject, so entertain me happy gadders and discuss...		2010-11-29 18:34:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

All I can say is I agree. The mainstream music is taking over. Now, I'm not one of those that hates the mainstream, but I love the more experimental/indie music a lot and find more feeling and heart in that.

I have always relied on friends and random people to introduce me to new bands and groups, but recently most people I know are turning to the mainstream.

My only remedy for this is to go to as many local shows as possible and check out the bands there or even youtube has some good people who aren't discovered but finding them is hard. 		2010-11-29 19:00:00

Author:
TheAffected
Posts: 626

Those guys are the "Stephanie Ravens" of the music world.... >_>

I'm with you Ungreth, I'm basically fed up with those kind of songs, is all you ccan hear these days on radio, and I'm fed up with it, I want some new refreshing actually thought up music, not the same 'gangsta' rap over and over with slightly different lyrics.

Now you know why I listen to foreign music, much better than the stuff that they show in the U.S.

(I reccomend Omnyouza?
Seems like it has music that may be like what you seek. )		2010-11-29 19:13:00

Author:
Silverleon
Posts: 6707

(I reccomend Omnyouza?

Now that's new and interesting. Iron Maiden in kimonos, lol! 		2010-11-29 20:14:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

Mainstream music dominates the radio, tv, and magazines.
It's crap. Calling it talentless and dead is unnecessary, because it's a given.

Thats why I listen to the oldies
I don't listen to much modern stuff, if any. I don't even think the 2 that I do listen to are still active right now..

We definately need another music revolution to bring music back, otherwise..music is dead.		2010-11-29 21:57:00

Author:
Bremnen
Posts: 1800

You said gangsta, and you're white http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt239/emotesplz/ththicameplz.gif

But yes I agree, I was gonna write a long paragraph(notrly)but everyone above me sorta hit the spots http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt239/emotesplz/icouldntcameplz.gif		2010-11-29 23:12:00

Author:
Unknown User

Any time I start to like a band they instantly go main stream.

Squarepusher and Passion Pit are the main examples for me.		2010-11-29 23:20:00

Author:
Cysero
Posts: 13

Any time I start to like a band they instantly go main stream.

Squarepusher and Passion Pit are the main examples for me.

The only way I discovered Passion Pit was because I had this commercial stuck in my head for weeks and I HAD to look up the song.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcnH0h69NY

So this was a year ago o:		2010-11-29 23:26:00

Author:
Unknown User

I found out about Sleepyhead when it actually came out, it was my ringtone for the entire year..2010-11-30 00:56:00

Author:
booXely
Posts: 654

Ever heard of Daikaiju? Or how about Monkey Magic?2010-11-30 01:52:00

Author:
Super_Dork_42
Posts: 1874

Lol at Onmyo-za! Good stuff there!
I can recommend Norway's Audrey Horne or the latest stuff from Ulver, and you can check 2 awesome discs from the band Arcturus: "The Sham Mirrors" and "Sideshow Symphonies"		2010-11-30 07:42:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Guys, I appreciate all the suggestions for music and you should feel free to post em, but it would be good if you could also try and post your thoughts on the state of the music industry to keep this thread on track. 2010-11-30 08:45:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

Well, I've got some points.
1. A lot of things in music have been said, but not everything.
2. In this World the ethics and "values" are on a downfall, and people feel less the need to express their feelings.
3. Very few people wants to risk with their music trying new thing or mixing different things in new ways.
4. Very few people wish to dedicate on the study and practice of a real instrument.
5. Lots of people wants to make money quick and don't want to sweat.
6. Downloading stuff is killing the sense of enjoying music and making it, "just ear" music, just fast food songs to eat and munch for a little while.
7. Once great musicians don't have the urge to speak their internal uneasiness anymore.
8. Record companies doesn't support new talents, but only safe bets.

Mix all together and you get a mountain of poo, that is the music today, and yeah, that's invading even alternative music and heavy metal that once were safe havens.
I only enjoy some mental contorted stuff from really extreme bands nowadays, the only place where you find someone that tries in a way or another to push some boundaries further.		2010-11-30 09:34:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Some great points there Omegaslayer. I guess a lot of it is about easy money, safe bets and quick fixes for the download generation. Also, I think with the advent of downloadable music, album art is another factor that has suffered greatly in the music industry. Most albums in the top 50 charts seem to feature a plain "look at me" photo of the singer on the cover of their own album, and just like the music there's very little imagination goes in album art these days. There are still some exceptions, but few and far between. And I agree that metal no longer seems to be the safe haven it once was either, with even that being dumbed down beyond recognition these days.

Talking of cool album art though, here's one of my all time faves, the cover of Jack Off Jill's "Clear Hearts Grey Flowers"...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d5/JOJCHGF.jpg/220px-JOJCHGF.jpg

and a link to one of their songs if anyone wants to hear it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_9XaBfY8X0		2010-11-30 11:48:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

On the note that Omega brought up. I play the Tuba... :hero:

and i was on teh webs and found this.

Maybe its old... idk i watched all 13... spoke truth to me. It is a documentary so be warned.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPZztrRWjZ8		2010-11-30 11:52:00

Author:
TheAffected
Posts: 626

You know guys, sometimes it's the spirit that is lacking...
When I was 18 I wanted to wreck into the World, now at 32 I can look back and have a good laugh.
I had that spirit even because there was something in the World to wreck, but I guess that people today won't find useful to wreck into ruins
Hope you get what I mean.
I still like to do and appreciate things done with the heart, even the simple ones.		2010-11-30 12:05:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

I think we just need another punk revolution.

The reason punk happened in the 70s originally was because of all the rubbish "prog rock" (for Britain anyway) that was going on. Prog stands for progressive, and basically the only new music that was being made was like 30 minute songs of people doing mindless guitar solos which didnt add anything to the music and were there just to show off. This was just boring really so the youth decided to fight back and the punk movement happened, so i suggest making a new punk movement!!
let people with real passion for their music come to the forefront!!
woohoo!! REVOLUTION...

but seriously things should change.		2010-11-30 18:30:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920

I think we just need another punk revolution.

The reason punk happened in the 70s originally was because of all the rubbish "prog rock" (for Britain anyway) that was going on. Prog stands for progressive, and basically the only new music that was being made was like 30 minute songs of people doing mindless guitar solos which didnt add anything to the music and were there just to show off. This was just boring really so the youth decided to fight back and the punk movement happened, so i suggest making a new punk movement!!
let people with real passion for their music come to the forefront!!
woohoo!! REVOLUTION...

but seriously things should change.

There will be eventually a change, but in the future when the current generation gets old and the younger ones get tired of the current stuff, but no one can assure that whatever comes up again will be good or bad, for me the good music is still on the 90's or 80's, but talking about pop music it has always existed (and has evolved with time into what we see today, pop music is music for the majority), IMO punk, metal, alternative and other styles usually have a fraction of people following it not all.		2010-11-30 18:39:00

Author:
Ragnarok
Posts: 898

There will be eventually a change, but in the future when the current generation gets old and the younger ones get tired of the current stuff, but no one can assure that whatever comes up again will be good or bad, for me the good music is still on the 90's or 80's, but talking about pop music it has always existed (and has evolved with time into what we see today, pop music is music for the majority), IMO punk, metal, alternative and other styles usually have a fraction of people following it not all.

I don't believe that any particular genre (or era) of music is "good" or "bad". Contemporary mainstream music has it's merit and it has it's appeal. The problem is that this kind of music has been pushed so hard on us that it has begun to overshadow everything else. It's like cake. Nice to munch on when you fancy a quick snack, but if that's all you were given to eat then you'd quickly get sick of it.		2010-11-30 19:30:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

Punk was a phenomenon that also had its social roots.
I only think that people making music should try to do something new.
In my perception and tastes, mostly metal based, 1995-96 has been a golden year...so many bands reared their heads and started to change their music and the perception of it.
Records like:
Amorphis - Elegy
Moonspell - Irreligious
Therion - Theli
In Flames - Jester's Race
Dark Tranquillity - The Gallery
Samael - Passage
Tiamat - Wildhoney

Well, I wait for a year like that, something that changes the things even slightly in a small part of music.
Mainstream will never change		2010-11-30 19:54:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

I think we just need another punk revolution.

The reason punk happened in the 70s originally was because of all the rubbish "prog rock" (for Britain anyway) that was going on. Prog stands for progressive, and basically the only new music that was being made was like 30 minute songs of people doing mindless guitar solos which didn't add anything to the music and were there just to show off. This was just boring really so the youth decided to fight back and the punk movement happened, so i suggest making a new punk movement!!
let people with real passion for their music come to the forefront!!
woohoo!! REVOLUTION...

but seriously things should change.
I mean, have you heard Pink Floyd? Rush? They're some great progressive bands, I don't think it's fair to call them boring. Give 'The Wall' album a listen. It's not so much that the songs themselves are endless but rather that all the album melds into one shape.

But that isn't the point. The point is that whether you like classic, skiffle, punk, prog, blues, metal, heavy, or any other type of rock, heck, even country and (the good) techno, you'll agree that today's music is not about the emotion and meaning that music is all about. It's about recycling material, stupid lyrics (even some of the dumbest stuff you heard back i the rock era had more appeal that 'lol i r the baws sekz drugz killstreek seks' lyrics we are fed nowadays) and generally not being creative as long as a profit is made. Back then, ANY TYPE of music was NEVER about the money. It was about conveying emotion while shredding some awesome solos or digging some funky groove.		2010-11-30 20:10:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046

Mainstream will never change

I duuno if that's altogether true...

No.1 in Uk charts January 1960

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KEnUmQAwCE

25 years later...
No.1 in Uk charts January 1985

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loWXMtjUZWM

50 years later...
No.1 in Uk charts January 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrO4YZeyl0I		2010-11-30 20:16:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

I used to "sag mah pantz" and "crook mah hatz", BUT that was a long time ago

Ever since I listened to Mastodon, Baroness, etc. I stopped listening to that bubblegum moozic. Mainstream is trash.

That is all.		2010-11-30 20:37:00

Author:
AbstractFlesh
Posts: 837

Sorry Ungreth, but can't spot the difference between songs if there's NOT a distorted electric guitarz 2010-11-30 21:40:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Now that's new and interesting. Iron Maiden in kimonos, lol!

Nothing can compare to the mighty Maiden. NOTHING.

Also, Metal will endure. Metal FTW. **** the mainstream pop garbage.		2010-12-01 00:24:00

Author:
Unknown User

Im hoping for some kind of music revolution.

Hopefully we saw the begging of it during last years 'Rage Against The X Factor' fiasco that got "Killing In The Name" By Rage Against The Machine to the christmas No. 1 spot over whatever X Factor crap was out last year.

But Rage, as good as they are, are also a very popular band and, by industry terms anyway, kind of old. I'd like to see new music getting more recognition that it does at the moment. I can name a ton of DJ's, Groups, Artist or Bands that have WAY more talent than most 'pop' stars do in their little fingers.

But, sadly, I think that there is a reason why so much crap is in the charts these days, and we are not entirely blameless.

In my opinion, REPEAT, my opinion, the internet is the worst thing that has happened to the music industry....except for justin Bieber maybe.

A lot of people these days download songs for free. I mean, hey! Why not? Your favorite song for free?! Sounds great! But I feel as is this has put a rather large dent in new musics popularity to the masses. Which you can see as good or bad either way I guess, but from the artists perspective, they are losing out on money that they work hard to deserve.

Now, at the other end of the scale, the reason why I think so much crap is in the charts is because there main customers seem to be the 'developing teenage girl market.' Now most of these teenage girls might not know how to download this 'free' music so they ask their parents to buy their favourite song off iTunes or in a shop. Thereby officially giving that 'pop' star a boost in the ratings and introducing that music to a bigger and bigger audience until....well, you end up with what we have at the moment.

I know a lot of people legitimately buy less mainstream music too, but the way I see it, the people that listen to that kind of music are the people most likely to download it for free. i.e. Us!

So, I think in order for decent, talented artists to become famous once again the Internet must die. But I can't see that happening anytime soon.

This is just my opinion however, correct me if im wrong.		2010-12-01 01:04:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

I mean, have you heard Pink Floyd?
Lol i actually like Pink Floyd, and personally wouldnt classify prog rock as the main genre of most of their music, i was only explaining the events that led to the biggest musical revolution we have seen since the Rennaisance (see Assassins Creed 2 ) My personal opinion on prog is that there is good and bad - as with all types of music it depends entirely on the influences of the band.

Also on the subject of genres in music i think its very hard to decide sometimes what genre a band or artist's work is. For example Pop is an umbrella term for any musical style that is popular during a certain time, whereas "Grime" is a very particular type of rap music (mainly generating in London and Birmingham and im not sure if any grime comes from US at all) which comes under the Hip Hop umbrella but is seperate from "Gangster rap"
A band like N-Dubz for instance call themselves Grime artists, but they are also a Pop band because its their rubbish music which is at the top of the charts time and again.

EDIT: Continuing on what Mr_T_Shirt said (and i agree totally with everything you said)

I find the biggest problem with downloading free music on the web (obviously after the fact that your stealing someones work) that nowadays it doesnt take a whole lot of sales to get to the top of the charts, what with everyone getting music for free with no record of how many people are getting it if i go into HMV and buy 50 copies of The Who Best Of album i have given them a huge boost in their chances of getting into the top 40 list (im not saying that 50 copies will but the number of sales you need these days is pitiful)
And this is why when a handful of teenage girls buys a record it becomes so instantly popular - in fact a wierd stat that my Music Business tutor told me - Most artists in the charts these days earn more money from royalties because they get played over and over on the radio and charts shows and such then thay earned on the journey to number through sales and legal downloads :S what a wierd state our music industry is in...

This is where the problem of determining what is actually "Alternative music" , because surely if it becomes popular it is no longer the alternative and is the standard?? As for "indie" i have never understood what this means, since you see a lot of bands calling themselves "indie" and playing the same old same old as a hundred other "indie" bands, wharts independent about that? or am i missing something...		2010-12-01 09:45:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920

This is where the problem of determining what is actually "Alternative music" , because surely if it becomes popular it is no longer the alternative and is the standard?? As for "indie" i have never understood what this means, since you see a lot of bands calling themselves "indie" and playing the same old same old as a hundred other "indie" bands, wharts independent about that? or am i missing something...

Indie was originally about having your band play on an independent record label, away from the big names as a kinda middle finger to the music industry.

I find it hilariously ironic that a lot of 'Indie' bands today are on major record labels. Kinda defeats the purpose. T_T		2010-12-01 14:32:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

Indie was originally about having your band play on an independent record label
Oh thanks and yeah i agree.

I think maybe it would be possible to start some form of revolution - by making a real independent record label, signing up some unknown talent and getting the christmas number one away from simon cowell

one heartening thing i read the other day- lots of famous musicians from the good ol' days have started coming forward about simon cowell, and clearly seperating themselves from his tv shows, the reason being that he really is one of the main contributors to the death of independent and even plain simply good music		2010-12-01 17:18:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920

one heartening thing i read the other day- lots of famous musicians from the good ol' days have started coming forward about simon cowell, and clearly seperating themselves from his tv shows, the reason being that he really is one of the main contributors to the death of independent and even plain simply good music

Really? Thats pretty cool, but isn't Bowie allowing the X Factor cretins do a cover of 'Hero's' for that charity single? I guess it's ok for charity, but the principle of it is astounding....Bowie can be an awkward bugger at the best of times!

Do you have some kinda link for that story? It's rare for famous musicians to be so selfless.		2010-12-02 00:30:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

yeah ill try and find one for you off the top of my head i think the main contributors were Paul McCartney and Suggs out of Madness2010-12-02 01:17:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920

yeah ill try and find one for you off the top of my head i think the main contributors were Paul McCartney and Suggs out of Madness

Jeez, whatever next? Johnny Rotten doing butter adver....oh wait. T_T		2010-12-02 01:30:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

Yeah, pop/radio is annoying. (understatement)
It ticks me off every day. >=(

Yet another BS thing wrong with the world that exists because there's profit to be had. Bah.		2010-12-02 03:36:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

well i managed to find a couple and my mistake it wasnt paul mccartney but roger daltrey
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/w0008262.html
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/w0007331.html
also jamiroquai said some stuff about the x factor, including some extremely rude stuff about the two women judges probably to rude to post - but then he disappointed me by going on the show a week later to perform so meh his opinion is nothing anymore		2010-12-02 03:45:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920

I guess you could say Roger...

*sunglasses*

won't get fooled again.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoPWALM2riQ

But seriously, I'm glad to see that the greats like Roger and Elton are coming out and dismissing this new industry (Ironically enough one of my only memories of American Idol is of David Cook's cover of Baba O'Reily.)		2010-12-02 04:28:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046

i lol'd

but yeah i think we need another rage campaign this year.
for those who dont know what happened basically:
Almost every year since it started the x factor winner has gotten the UK christmas number 1 spot in the charts, except last year when a couple of people started a facebook group called Rage Against The X Factor, in which they urged people to buy a copy of Rage Against The Machine's Killing in the Name record - in order to kick Simon Cowell off the top spot and get some good music in the charts. The campaign was a roaring success, especially after lots of independent record stores started making special offers on the CD where people ended up buying two or three copies of the record

Anyway point is that last christmas *i gave you my heart, but the very next..* GET BACK IN YOUR CAGE GEORGE MICHAEL!!

Last christmas the dreary Joe McElderry and Simon Cowell had to settle for the number two spot at christmas - showing that the people of Britain could take a stand!! As long as there was a facebook group telling them what to do...		2010-12-02 13:56:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920

I heard on the radio today that this 'song' is gonna be the new thing to get to number 1.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E

I think it would be hilarious! Radio and TV stations would HAVE to play it! XD		2010-12-03 01:49:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

haha brilliant i had no idea what was to be the new campaign record, what a good choice, and a middle finger to simon cowell that this music is supposedly better than his stuff 2010-12-03 04:17:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920

haha brilliant i had no idea what was to be the new campaign record, what a good choice, and a middle finger to simon cowell that this music is supposedly better than his stuff

Hahah, definitely! If this turns out to be the thing to try and get to No.1, im buying it! XD		2010-12-03 04:37:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

Point is that there aren't lots of skilled musicians.
Queen were mainstream but they had some big b a l l s.
People that spent hours on their skills, and are not willing to sell-out.
Possibly the new blood of musicians don't have mirrors in their home and they have not the will to spit theimselves in the face.		2010-12-03 07:19:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Sigh, I have not bothered reading all that has been written, so I will say my words while crossing my fingers for that what I say have not been said by anyone in particular -.-

I have never been interested in mainstream music, though I do sometimes find a few nice songs out there which are heart warming. You are definitely not the only one Ungreth who wants music from the heart and soul and not the Walet and groin (that made me almost fall of my chair btw XD). And thanks for mentioning Pitchfork, just the perfect stuff for me!

It must be mentioned as an extra note to what OmegeSlayer said, that "Downloading stuff is killing the sense of enjoying music and making it, "just ear" music, just fast food songs to eat and munch for a little while" that downloaded music may often be compressed music which is actually unhealthy for your ear, where that came from is unclear from though... Maybe Incinerator22 posted some TED about, I can't remember completely -.-
Buyed CD's contain the pure music most often and therefore a better choice in my opinion.		2010-12-03 14:37:00

Author:
moonwire
Posts: 1627

I do agree with what youre saying about CD and digital music moon, mp3s are very cold sound, whereas vinyl or even CDs to some extent have a much warmer nicer sound - you might even wanna call it a "phat" sound although use of this word sometimes leads to baggy jeans and crotch grabbing2010-12-03 15:18:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920

Anyway what I mean is that a record is a full opera and not a sum of single songs, and even the booklet and the packaging is part of the art.2010-12-03 16:09:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

definitely agree about album art, i hate trying to look at some tiny little image on itunes when someone has obviously spent time to make a good cover for the cd case2010-12-03 17:46:00

Author:
Skalio-
Posts: 920

Anyway what I mean is that a record is a full opera and not a sum of single songs, and even the booklet and the packaging is part of the art.


definitely agree about album art, i hate trying to look at some tiny little image on itunes when someone has obviously spent time to make a good cover for the cd case

Plus, downloaded songs does not have lyrics you can sing with :kz:		2010-12-03 18:49:00

Author:
moonwire
Posts: 1627

I'm going to be honest and say I prefer some of the mainstream stuff to alternative. But I do feel sympathy for those alternative musicians who clearly have as much talent (or more than most - looking at you Kesha....) as the guys and gals in the charts yet don't get as much recognition. Though you should always be able to find some sites appreciating your flavour of music. That one site isn't the only one. Enjoy your type of music regardless of whose sold the most singles this week.

My-name-is-Kesha-and-I-don't-sing
I-just-auto-tune-my-voice-and-talk-to-the-beat.
po-po-police shut us dowwwwn (cause we are hardcore rebels)		2010-12-03 21:12:00

Author:
KQuinn94Z
Posts: 1758


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