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N.Korea Updates

Archive: 64 posts

I thought it best to have this in a separate thread,

USS George Washington has started exercises in the yellow sea.
NK has moved Surface to surface missiles into positions along it's southern coastline.
Approx 200 type-81 and bm-21 MRLs have been positioned within range of Seoul.
Fires have been seen in the eastern parts of the DMZ.
South Korea has readied surface to air missiles.

If you want sources I can provide them, but right now I'm gonna take a nap.

2010-11-28 03:36:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Thanks for being our link to the situation, Poms. Appreciate it.

2010-11-28 04:30:00

Author:
Astrosimi

Posts: 2046

Strangepom not to be confused with Poms, he's a much better creator than me

Anyway back on topic... The Chinese premier is going to make an "important announcement" in about 27 min

I'll post with more information soon. I'm still trying to source up to date satalite images but as you can imagine that is rather tricky. I have found some genuine before/after shelling images from a weather satalite but that only shows a broad image in pretty reds yellows and purple and a white area around the island.

30min ago via Yonhap "S. Korea orders journalists to leave Yeonpyeong Island"
1/2 an hour later - Voice Of America: Defense Ministry tells all journalists remaining on Yeonpyeong to evacuate by taking 1900KST ferry to Incheon.

And just to keep everyone on their toes...
S. Korean artillery mistakenly fired on DMZ
PAJU, South Korea, Nov. 28 (Yonhap) -- An artillery shot accidentally fired by a South Korean army unit fell on the South Korean side of the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ) on Sunday afternoon, military officials said.
No casualties were reported from the accidental discharge that occurred at around 3 p.m., the officials said. An artillery unit stationed in the border town of Paju, Gyeonggi Province, mistakenly fired a shell that landed near Daeseong-dong, a civilian village on the southern side the DMZ dividing the two Koreas, they said.

China calls for early resumption of six-party nuke talks
Pres. Lee (SK) made clear to Chinese official resumption of six-way talks "not timely": Cheong Wa Dae (refused talks)

update: SEOUL, Nov. 28 (Yonhap) -- South Korean President Lee Myung-bak told a visiting senior Chinese official that Seoul was not interested in the early resumption of the six-party talks over North Korea's nuclear program as it is more urgent to deal with Pyongyang's belligerence, Lee's office Cheong Wa Dae said.

China has not had promised press conference

2010-11-28 08:08:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

It may not be appropriate; but why can't we go in and support one of them?

Thats right, because they actually have weapons of mass destruction.

/waits for horrified response.

2010-11-28 09:53:00

Author:
Kern

Posts: 5078

All nations involved have nukes China, Russia, Japan, USA, Sth Korea (american nukes), North Korea all have wmd's

It is a bit of a supresized mexican standoff, with Nth Kr the hungy one with the itchy trigger finger.

Anyways....

THAT WAS IT FOLKS!

China's "URGENT" press conference........... "umm we want to have 6 party talks in early Dec... " that is all.
What the hell?! Is that the sum total of China's effort to quell the situation? Well I'm sorry guys we're all ****ed.

SEOUL, Nov. 28 (Yonhap) -- North Korea said Sunday that the Korean Peninsula is now in a state of "ultra-emergency," as South Korea and the United States began massive naval drills south of the Yellow Sea border in a show of force against the North.

In a statement carried by the official Korean Central News Agency, the National Peace Committee of Korea, a propaganda organ of the North, denounced the joint exercise as an attempt to trigger a war against the communist nation.

(On a lighter note, have a look at the DPRK's No.1 FAQ http://www.korea-dpr.com/forum/?page_id=39 The answer to No. 4 is funny too)

2010-11-28 10:06:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

better start preparing. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault-Tec_Industries)

2010-11-28 10:11:00

Author:
Kern

Posts: 5078

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/middleeast/29missiles.html?hp

2010-11-28 19:46:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

better start preparing. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault-Tec_Industries)

Prepare for what?! Boy, what a scary concept to even think about it.
I hope all the diplomats involved are wise enough to keep the communication lines open. The consequences of their decisions affect everyone globally.

2010-11-28 20:00:00

Author:
Unknown User

Since in this thread no one's repeated the joke yet

25 kill streak, call of duty, meh there I said it.

also, I wouldn't worry about all of this, N.Korea is just trying to act tough.

2010-11-28 22:56:00

Author:
Unknown User

Since in this thread no one's repeated the joke yet

25 kill streak, call of duty, meh there I said it.

also, I wouldn't worry about all of this, N.Korea is just trying to act tough.

Maybe we ought to poke 'em with a stick and see what happens, then.

2010-11-28 23:09:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack

Posts: 5757

Or just mock them when the try to say Toblerone.

/runs

2010-11-28 23:18:00

Author:
Kern

Posts: 5078

War. War never changes.

2010-11-29 17:56:00

Author:
Nurolight

Posts: 918

2010-11-29 18:30:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

It'd be helpful if we (The West) took a moment to put ourselves in the soft seouled (see what I did there?) shoes of North Korea.
You can look at headlines like "North Korea Armed Iran!" and get very paranoid about their intentions.
When the truth is, the only reason they are so adamant to arm themselves is because of their own paranoia regarding our intentions. & going by historical precedent, the West is FAR more likely to initiate an attack than they are.
We can't bully them into a corner and then try and sanction them into the stone-age and then when they scratch at us like wild animal - blame 'them' for their behaviour.
Their political stance is an equal and opposite reaction to the prediciment we put them in (when America started it's global mission to try and force every country to adopt democracy - wether the people wanted it or not - and when they don't vote the way we want them to, we destabalise the country by supplying the opposition with weapons and training {like we did with the Taliban}).
You can take the Southpark "Oh, Me So Ronery!" view of North Korea, but that is a childish and simplistic view... the truth is much greyer (& we look like the bad guys).

I agree, but I wanna point out two things:

We armed Iran too.(In the 80's) lol
and..

We're not pushing democracy on other countries, we push capitalism.
Well, not really capitalism..
The U.S likes to destabalize other countries, assassinate their leaders and replace them with dictators who will do what the U.S wants so that they(U.S) can make money off of cheap labor/goods and use their farmland to ship food back to the U.S for cheap to keep costs down for us to try and keep the capitalist society we have from collapsing because capitalism doesnt work unless you can outsource work and import cheap products from poor countries.
Well, at least that's what they did/are doing in third world spanish countries.
/cough/Greater Antilles/cough/

But yea, I agree with you.

2010-11-29 22:15:00

Author:
Bremnen

Posts: 1800

Finally some intelligent conversation. Yes you can look at Nth Korea as a tormented/starved puppy bullied by western nations. You can also see them as a maxist (Juche) led dictatorship, starving it's people of not just food but a realistic view of the outside world.

I also would like to point out that joint Sth K and US military manouvers happen every single year and are always announced, attacking land based/civilian populated areas does not.

anyway little ol' me has found some more things to get paranoid over. NK has promised to boost uranium enrichment

2010-11-30 07:58:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

I just feel the need to play devils advicate... which means I'm constantly forced into the position of defending tyrants like Kim Jong-Il/Un .
They do have an all pervasive personality cult in North Korea, they do heavily control the media, and it's probably not the best place in the world to be the leader of the opposition.

But our startegy to "deal" with this situation (sanction the country into poverty, then when they are too weak to defend themselves - bomb them back to the stone-age {then hire western developers to 'rebuild'}) doesn't exactly do much to help your avaerage North Keorean either. & when it hits the fan, they are the ones who will be paying the price for the leaderships on both sides gusto.

Also, they have one of the largest standing armies in the world (& actual WMD - not imaginary ones), so it won't be like Iraq or Afghanistan (where, similarly, we sanctioned them until they were weak and defenseless - and then kicked the door in with relative ease)... they have been telling the people for decades that eventually America is going to attack them, so the worst thing America could do is to threaten them with attack - it will only strengthen their resolve.

War is never the answer - Peace and Diplomacy is the answer, they just need to do a better job at it.

2010-11-30 15:14:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

StrangePoms, Are they at least "talking"? I hope they realize that there is nothing to be gained from the war. Everyone loses...

2010-12-01 05:07:00

Author:
Unknown User

The 6 party talks are not happening, currently each counties foreign minister and high ranking official is visiting every other country except for NK with the exception of China who is sending someone to NK. it does look as if things will happen soon.

I personally think that the only way the NK regieme will surrender is if the US is sitting in the Yellow and or East Sea threatening them while Massive military forces from China and Russia move south (peacefuly) to dispand the NK army. Offering soldiers protection from the current administration and aid in return for surrendering arms, until the leadership is fully overthrown. The Chinese will NOT accept US troops above the DMZ. But I don't think that needs to happen if Russia and China show a unified front against NK. It is very risky to send in troops without attacking, but I think they would understand that they cannot afford to attack China, and if they do then the US is sitting on their doorstep ready to help China.

I'm sure you will see a unified Korea within your lifetime. So if you missed the Berlin wall falling this is take 2.

2010-12-01 07:55:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Nuke them, end them, carry on with life. That is all.

2010-12-01 12:38:00

Author:
Unknown User

And who are we to decide on the political structure of North Korea?
Surely that's something that only the North Koreans should decide?

In case none of you were aware, forcible regime change is actually illegal under international law.

But no, lets do away with any regime we don't like, or who is slightly critical, or who looks at us funny

2010-12-01 14:55:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

[Wikileaks] China stated that they would accept a unified Korea under Seoul's control.

Forcible regime change does occur but only in war, revolution or coups, Illegal or not it does happen and in this case it WILL happen the question is how?

NK has asked for help from China in setting up K-J-Un as successor. China has refused.

You cannot arrest the current leader and charge him for war crimes like Saddam Hussain as there has technically not been any real war. What I do see happening is if this happens while Kim Jong il is still alive he will be brought to Geneva or somewhere and charged with human rights abuses.

2010-12-01 20:33:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

I think I'm going to ignore this thread in future, it's never good news is it?

http://www.sacktastic.com/lbp-news/lbp2delayed/sad_panda.png

Sad panda enjoys being blissfully unaware

2010-12-01 20:45:00

Author:
MrFunctionality

Posts: 637

You cannot arrest the current leader and charge him for war crimes like Saddam Hussain as there has technically not been any real war. What I do see happening is if this happens while Kim Jong il is still alive he will be brought to Geneva or somewhere and charged with human rights abuses.

That was purely speculation/opinion I'll try to seperate that from real news in future

If you want good news then here you go.

(LEAD) Clinton to have three-way meeting with S. Korean, Japanese ministers over N. Korea: State Dept.

By Hwang Doo-hyong
WASHINGTON, Dec. 1 (Yonhap) -- U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will meet with her South Korean and Japanese counterparts early next week to discuss ways to reduce tensions on the Korean Peninsula, the State Department said Wednesday.

I am only reporting what happens as it happens, good or bad is not up to me.

2010-12-01 22:58:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

My advice. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGIOJtGo-k4&feature=related) <--Click

2010-12-02 00:39:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt

Posts: 1477

If you want good news then here you go.

(LEAD) Clinton to have three-way meeting with S. Korean, Japanese ministers over N. Korea: State Dept.

By Hwang Doo-hyong
WASHINGTON, Dec. 1 (Yonhap) -- U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will meet with her South Korean and Japanese counterparts early next week to discuss ways to reduce tensions on the Korean Peninsula, the State Department said Wednesday

The same Clinton that mistook SK for NK? God help us all.

@Mr_T-Shirt - That song could have been happier

2010-12-02 00:52:00

Author:
MrFunctionality

Posts: 637

No, seriously what planet are you on?

Hillary Clinton is the US Secretary of State,
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/50229000/jpg/_50229962_010751724-1.jpg

Sarah Palin
http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID15166/images/sarah_palin_bikini1.jpg
is the one that does not know North from South and can see Russia from her window. She is also attempting to become the next US president

2010-12-02 01:19:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

2010-12-02 01:21:00

Author:
Joshofsouls

Posts: 1569

Ahhhh Sarah palin, that's the one
Lucky I have you Pomy <3 Our planets are closer than you think, nudge, nudge

EDIT: You know those moments when you feel really smart and smug with yourself? I don't

2010-12-02 01:42:00

Author:
MrFunctionality

Posts: 637

^ You may wanna edit that Strangepom... unless you enjoy banhammah? I know I do. <3

But yeah. Not all female politicians are the same.

And, TBQH, as scared as I am of a full out nuclear war... I honestly don't see why America is the only country allowed to have nukes. It just seems... stupid, really.

We're like "We need nukes to defend ourselves! And nuke other countries! Cause USA! USA! *****es!"

... Not really too much of an exaggeration, I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say we should nuke another country just cause we are the USA and we can. And saying that we should have more nukes to defends ourselves and other countries aren't trusted enough to have nukes... it's just... <_>

I mean, I know we're the USA and are the best place on Earth and all other countries bow to our awesomeness... but geez <_>

2010-12-02 01:47:00

Author:
RockSauron

Posts: 10882

I'd rather America did have all the nukes, They're the only country I trust outside of the European union.

2010-12-02 01:53:00

Author:
MrFunctionality

Posts: 637

Military denies spy chief's remark on N. Korea's attack plan

SEOUL, Dec. 2 (Yonhap) -- South Korea military Thursday denied a reported remark by the nation's spy chief who said that wiretaps in August confirmed North Korea's plan to attack border islands in the tense Yellow Sea.

National Intelligence Service Director Won Sei-hoon reportedly told lawmakers Wednesday that the South confirmed through electronic surveillance back in August that the North was planning to launch an attack against one of the five Yellow Sea islands.

So basicly intel reports state it was a pre-meditated attack, Sthn Military commander denies this probably to save face.

2010-12-02 04:31:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Hurray if NK ans SK fuinnaly reunite peacefully and they take NK's leaders out of the picture, because seriosuly...
Also, @ Josh., where was that gif all those times I needed it when people kept asking for Betorz among other threads that sriously needed it?!

2010-12-02 07:19:00

Author:
Silverleon

Posts: 6707

The US doesn;t want any other country to have nukes because then it would have to listen to them, rather than doing what-ever it likes, like the schoolyard bully who had his growth spurt before everyone else and then uses his size to steal everyones lunch money.
That is how the US is viewed on the world stage.. .not as a "Global Leader" or a country to aspire to, but as a self-interested bully.
North Korea is the petulant outcast who throws stones at girls to get their attention.

2010-12-02 19:04:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

That is how the US is viewed on the world stage.. .not as a "Global Leader" or a country to aspire to, but as a self-interested bully.
North Korea is the petulant outcast who throws stones at girls to get their attention.

How incredibly apt

2010-12-02 19:53:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Edit: Sorry for double post forgot I was last person to post

NEWS V
S. Korea dismisses N. Korea's alleged underwater nuclear facilities

SEOUL, Dec. 3 (Yonhap) -- South Korea on Friday dismissed North Korea's alleged underwater nuclear facilities as "hard to believe," doubting that the communist nation has such advanced technologies.

A U.S. diplomatic cable, divulged by the online whistleblower WikiLeaks, quoted a Shanghai expert in September 2008 as mentioning "secret underwater nuclear facilities located on North Korea's coast" while talking about the six-party talks on Pyongyang's nuclear programs.

Funny comment V
So apparently NK have underwater nuclear facilities as well as a hideout in a volcano and a secret moon base with death rays pointed at Washington. Time to send in our best double o agents.'

More news V

South Korea's defense minister-designate said on Friday his country will respond with air strikes should North Korea stage further attacks.

"We will definitely air raid North Korea," Kim Kwan-jin said, answering questions at his confirmation hearing about what the South's response would be if attack again by the North.

Oh and NK just deployed another 100 MRLs

2010-12-03 04:54:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Oh man...

2010-12-03 06:33:00

Author:
Unknown User

Oh and NK just deployed another 100 MRLs
Bringing the total number to 2600 on active duty

The NK MRL or Multi Rocket Launcher vehicle fires a cartridge of between 22 and 40 x 5 meter long rockets (Depending on the calibre) in under a minuet with an effective range of 60 km

In a co-ordinated all out attack that is effectively around 78000 rockets launched within a minuet.

2010-12-03 08:02:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

I hope no one is trigger happy, and I hope no one sneezes...

2010-12-03 08:17:00

Author:
Unknown User

For those of you who are really interested in this here is a long article from a few years ago about the possible implication of a war (from a US perspective)
North Korea: The War Game (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2005/07/north-korea-the-war-game/4029/)

2010-12-03 09:06:00

Author:
Syroc

Posts: 3193

Nukes don't help anyone...lets say America nuked North Korea they would probably retaliate by firing nukes back at the USA then it's likely that America's allies would get involved, if this special relationship actually exists between the UK and the US. So now the UK is nuking someone and then they would retaliate and their allies would get involved resulting in everywhere getting nuked the hell out it causing potentially the end of civilization as we know it.

2010-12-03 11:45:00

Author:
MasterCreator

Posts: 464

2010-12-03 12:34:00

Author:
iKyle94

Posts: 60

Actually that is wrong.
All governments have bought into the "mutually assured destruction" (MAD) self defense system. ie; If you attack us, you are signing your own death warrant.

But the reality is somewhat different.
It all works fine in theory... but in practice (which is where it actually matters most) it all falls down.
the MAD defense only works if the person at the top is actually willing to effectively sign a death warrant for the entire world. They stack the odds for the probability of an all out nuclear war at 1 in 10,000. That is, every year there is a one in ten thousand chance that the entire world will be engulfed in a nuclear winter. Personally I don't like those odds... with every year that passes the likelyhood that our leaders will sacrifice us for their own protection increases.
The people actually pushing the fire button will be safe in a nuclear bunker deep underground... but it'll be curtains for the rest of us.

And that's only if both sides are as batsh*t crazy as each other.
What is more likely is that a crumbling regime (who we have forced by sanction to crumble) out of desperation will launch a nuclear attack... and the recipient of the attack will not retaliate. In all likelyhood, when it actually comes to crunch time of "Ok Mr President, push this button and you will be ending all human life as we know it" - they will hesitate. & This hesitation means that the country that attacks first will have the upper hand - since it will have targetted it's enemies nuclear facilities. With no way to retaliate they would be forced to surrender, and the Bad guys win.
This is what is waiting for us with our current policy of 'so-called' Mutually Assured Destruction.
So in actual fact - the MAD system does not protect you from a first strike.

Doesn;t seem like such a good plan when you actually analise it does it.
Not to mention the fact it costs nuclear powers billions a year to upkeep their nuclear arsenal... when that money could be better spent on public works, aid and humanitarian projects. And the hoped for outcome is that you would NEVER have to use these weapons that you have so expensively maintained.

It's no suprise really that the two biggest industries in the world are Oil and Weapons.
The oil fuels the wars, and we fight over the oil (to fuel the wars that we are fighting over control of the oil, so that we can continue to fight our wars.... for oil)
Only Humans could be that stupid... animals act on instinct... but it takes a creature with intelligence to be 'really' stupid

2010-12-03 15:05:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

[speculation]

Ok you won't have to worry about NK nuking the states just yet... well not by ICBMs at least. They have missiles that will nuke China, SK, Japan and parts of Russia but not the states just yet.

If they do want to nuke cities in the US then they will have the devices in the cities already, possibly set up in a derelict looking warehouse somewhere, primed and ready to blow.

2010-12-05 01:19:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

In all likelyhood, when it actually comes to crunch time of "Ok Mr President, push this button and you will be ending all human life as we know it" - they will hesitate.

Only Humans could be that stupid... animals act on instinct... but it takes a creature with intelligence to be 'really' stupid

1. You must not be talking about the U.S president.

2. We are animals, we're just THAT stupid.

2010-12-05 01:45:00

Author:
Bremnen

Posts: 1800

Today Sth Korea staged exercises on every coast of the peninsula

South Korea's military on Monday (6th Dec) launched live-fire drills in the waters off all three coasts of the Korean Peninsula, renewing its commitment to tougher retaliation against any future provocations by North Korea, officials said.

Edit: 8th Dec 2010

I have been a bit slack recently, although political stuff is happening I have not been reporting it because it isn't anything you wouldn't expect. I'll let you know when something big happens. The only thing that happened today was NK also had some live fire drills and shot a shell into their own territorial waters.

addition to the edit:

I just found the location of the secret underground bunker, 'Command Post Tango' I'm sure I've got it right because there are 2 helipads one humongous one and another surrounded by anti aircraft SAM emplacements. Also confirming this there is no significant sized buildings within the immediate vicinity of the helipads but what looks like an army parade ground/barracks on the sth side of the mountain, and an army training assault course in the middle of the forest.

2010-12-06 02:36:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

North Korea prepare for "All-out WAR" (http://175.45.179.68/eng/c_news.php?lang=eng&year=2010&kk=7790) statement from KCNA.

Also mentions that they will attack beyond Korean peninsula (news), so I wouldn't rule out espionage and nukes in JP (opinion).

Edit: Here is the address of the KCNA site hosted in NK http://175.45.179.68/kor/ rather than the Japanese hosted one.

Oh for sack's sake!! Really!? (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-threatens-south-with-nuclear-war-2158927.html)

2010-12-13 03:36:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Oh man....
Give Peace a Chance...

2010-12-13 17:58:00

Author:
Unknown User

I'd rather America did have all the nukes, They're the only country I trust outside of the European union.

*cough* Canada *cough*

i'm late

I just noticed this thread, thank you for all the info

2010-12-14 00:42:00

Author:
Kaboom

Posts: 172

North Korea prepare for "All-out WAR" (http://175.45.179.68/eng/c_news.php?lang=eng&year=2010&kk=7790) statement from KCNA.

KCNA is good for a laugh. Love that site.

2010-12-14 11:37:00

Author:
Syroc

Posts: 3193

Every one is shooting rockets in their own back gardens/ponds I'll let you know when one flies over the fence.

2010-12-14 11:46:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

I'd rather America did have all the nukes, They're the only country I trust outside of the European union.

I can categorically guarantee that you would not be saying that if you were;
North Korean, Iranian, Sudanese, Libyan etc etc etc.

They are also the only country to have actually used them in anger... TWICE!
If you ask me, this is why they should NOT have ANY nukes.

And why does the worlds media ignore the fact that Isreal has become a Nuclear Power illegally- going against the Non-Proliferation treaty - and they pose a distinct threat to every other country in the region - being Zionist Religious Extremists as they are. We don't bat an eyelid when Isreal calls for the Arabs to be nuked - but scream blue murder when Iran says something similar about Isreal?!
Why the duplicity?

Thing is... examining what kicked off this whole debacle - North Korea claim South Korea fired first - South Korea admit firing first but deny firing at North Korea.
But of course (according to our media) North Korea are "definately" the bad guys, right?

Even if we find out that South Korea were lying about not firing on North Korea?
Who's in the "right" then?
What if North Korea were retaliating - just like they said?

One thing I've learned from active wars is that you cannot trust any statement from the Army - as they are also fighting a propaganda war at the same time - so every piece of information released is part of their propaganda barrage.

There is FAR more to this story than we are being told.

2010-12-15 15:45:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

Yes the south Koreans fired first... they always do. It was part of annual joint military exercises that happen every year and have been happening regularly for decades. It was no excuse for the North's attack on land based targets, the first since the '53 armistice.

I'm sure even your country has regular live fire exercises too.

There is sufficient intel to show that the yeongpyong shelling was pre-meditated. Yes they attacked a military target, but in doing so they did more damage to the civilian township.

btw Russia is now on high alert

2010-12-16 02:48:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Oh yes.
I forgot, only America is allowed to attack a country first and wreak havoc on civilian targets while claiming to attack military ones

"Military Exersises" was the exact same excuse we used on the kuwaiti border in the run up to the Iraq war.
"No Saddam, we're not planning on attacking you. we're just conducting 'military exersices' "

I wouldn't be surprised at all if South Korea was testing Kim Jong-Un's resolve.

2010-12-16 07:51:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

You are not getting what I'm saying, let me put it simply.

Live fire exercises happen EVERY YEAR, all within south territory.

North political/economic structure unstable.... need excuse to get aid in return for nuclear arms reductions.

US and Sth Korea becoming more 'hard nosed' towards vicious cycle of military threats = aid.

Nth desperate.... here is what is happening next

SEOUL, Dec. 17 (Yonhap) -- North Korea vowed Friday to retaliate with greater firepower if South Korea goes ahead with its planned live-fire drills from the frontline island that has been devastated by North Korean shelling.

"Second and third self-defensive blows that cannot be predicted will be dealt" if South Korea conducts the one-day drills scheduled between Saturday and Tuesday, the North's military said in a statement carried by the official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA).

2010-12-17 09:34:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Live fire exercises happen EVERY YEAR, all within south territory.

The "South Korean" territories in question are disputed - and South Korea have been ramping up their "live-fire exercises" to more than annual, and seeing as this has always been used as cover for the start of real military operations - what is North Korea supposed to make of this?

1st rule of conflict resolution - see it from the other persons point of view.

2010-12-17 11:57:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

The Northern limit line is an internationally agreed border, except Nth never accepted this and a few years back suddenly decided to claim the sea territory in a line that protrudes diagonally south west of Incheon, which puts several islands that are under sovereignty of South Korea 100's of miles inside the northern border.

Anyway I thought you might like to see this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwoSFQb5HVk&feature=player_embedded

2010-12-20 05:04:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Ohhh that ain't good.

N Korean front line special forces issued Sth Korean style (woodland camo) uniforms (http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2010/12/28/90/0200000000AEN20101228003000315F.HTML). This is a change from the uniforms in the above video that they have been wearing for over 1/2 a century, and could cause the sort of confusion that brings about the "kill 'em all" type policy that got the American forces into trouble last time.

2010-12-28 06:58:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

I can categorically guarantee that you would not be saying that if you were;
North Korean, Iranian, Sudanese, Libyan etc etc etc.

They are also the only country to have actually used them in anger... TWICE!
If you ask me, this is why they should NOT have ANY nukes.

And why does the worlds media ignore the fact that Isreal has become a Nuclear Power illegally- going against the Non-Proliferation treaty - and they pose a distinct threat to every other country in the region - being Zionist Religious Extremists as they are. We don't bat an eyelid when Isreal calls for the Arabs to be nuked - but scream blue murder when Iran says something similar about Isreal?!
Why the duplicity?

Thing is... examining what kicked off this whole debacle - North Korea claim South Korea fired first - South Korea admit firing first but deny firing at North Korea.
But of course (according to our media) North Korea are "definately" the bad guys, right?

Even if we find out that South Korea were lying about not firing on North Korea?
Who's in the "right" then?
What if North Korea were retaliating - just like they said?

One thing I've learned from active wars is that you cannot trust any statement from the Army - as they are also fighting a propaganda war at the same time - so every piece of information released is part of their propaganda barrage.

There is FAR more to this story than we are being told.
-The U.S. should have nukes; they were first successfully developed here. Also, its safe to say that we are probably not going to just start blasting away; contrary to what you may believe, we are not all bloodthirsty war-mongers, and would be very upset if the government nuked a country without asking us; we would want it. Of course, the anti-Japanese propaganda of WWII fixed that same "problem" then... but we're too smart for propaganda now, right? Right?
-Of course, there was Japanese anti-American propaganda, as well.
-Israel is an ally, and while there may appear to be a double standard, I think the U.S. government is not as concerned about Israel initiating a middle-eastern nuclear war because we are probably able to gather a lot more intelligence on Israel. They may seem to be more stable than Iran, but it seems unlikely that either country will nuke each other in the first place- not when the U.S. is here to make them play nice.
-Personally, I've wondered why the U.S. (or any country) has a right to impose sanctions on Iran or any other country, but that's moot.
-If it were my choice, I would simply have the government spend some of the oceans of tax money it collects on building nuclear reactors in Iran, and supplying them with reactor grade (but not weapons grade) uranium (or whatever radioactive element they want to use) for free. It would be cheaper than a war and they couldn't use nuclear reactors as an "excuse" to enrich uranium.
-As for the Korean Peninsula Situation; I really don't know what your talking about. I've never heard any news network claiming wrongdoing on either side. (That would be bad journalism, right? Of course, I get all of my news from the BBC; I used to read CNN before I realized their paragraph-long "stories" were simply excuses to kick off verbal fist-fights in their comments section.)
-If North Korea was just retaliating... then it is unfortunate for them that they spew so much propaganda, because we can't trust them now. If they wanted people to trust them, (by them, of course, I mean the North Korean government; the people don't have a say.) they would be less communist.

Ohhh that ain't good.

N Korean front line special forces issued Sth Korean style (woodland camo) uniforms (http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2010/12/28/90/0200000000AEN20101228003000315F.HTML). This is a change from the uniforms in the above video that they have been wearing for over 1/2 a century, and could cause the sort of confusion that brings about the "kill 'em all" type policy that got the American forces into trouble last time.

-That seems to be pretty dirty; maybe the South Korean army should wear North Korean uniforms to confuse them?
-Also, I would hope that with all of our advanced equipment and intelligence gathering devices that the Army spends millions on, the "kill 'em all" policy wouldn't be needed...

2010-12-28 18:33:00

Author:
Stoicrow

Posts: 276

I get all of my news from the BBC; I used to read CNN before I realized their paragraph-long "stories" were simply excuses to kick off verbal fist-fights in their comments section.

Lol - I pick up my news from multiple sources BBC, Reuters, Yonhap and various online forums. The forums always get the news first, then it is usually confirmed on the aforementioned official news sites. You must always be careful before you publish something to check that your source is legit. Case-in-point the "satellite image" of Nth Korean shelling that was actually bagdad. As soon as that started flowing through the twitterverse I was among the fist to point out that it was fake. (I cross referenced it with google earth map)

-Also, I would hope that with all of our advanced equipment and intelligence gathering devices that the Army spends millions on, the "kill 'em all" policy wouldn't be needed...

.....again. Yes lets hope not.

2010-12-29 07:25:00

Author:
Strangepom

Posts: 445

Well, considering North Korea has one of the largest 'standing' armies in the world - and the one thing that America hates is a fair fight, it is highly likely that, come conflict time, they would try and bomb them into submition rather than invade.

It's sad but true.
As much as America would like to think of itself as "The Good Guy" - in the last decade, it has killed more civilians than just about any other country in the world. And considering the motivation for this was oil, America is really in no position to take the moral high ground.

2010-12-29 09:42:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

2010-12-29 09:45:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

It's sad but true.
As much as America would like to think of itself as "The Good Guy" - in the last decade, it has killed more civilians than just about any other country in the world. And considering the motivation for this was oil, America is really in no position to take the moral high ground.

Neither are you.

You are blaming all of America for past actions that aren't representative of the entire population; I'm going to assume you live in England- should I dislike your country because of what it did in the past, expanding to a huge empire, randomly drawing up new borders on a whim, borders which still cause massive disputes among populations today? What about the colonies? In case you forgot, one of those colonies decided to rebel because a lack of representation; in a way, the formation of the U.S.A. was the fault of Great Britain. Should the country you live in today, then, be blamed for all of the problems America has caused? I don't think so.

The civilian killings I can't deny; I know for a fact that more civilians than terrorists have been killed. Although, while you say that "Americans" did it for oil, Americans who disagree with the killing will say that it is the fault of big oil companies controlling the government, not them.
As for a "fair fight"... I find that to be a totally baseless comment. We would love the wars we are fighting now to be a fair fight. If it were two armies fighting, we could easily win. But, it isn't; we are fighting terrorists. They fight among civilians, unfortunately; how many civilians have been killed by suicide bombers?

"Judge not, Lest Ye be Judged"

Well, now I've judged you. Of course, I cannot adequately speak for all of America, obviously, but my point is, neither can you.

I hope that we do not have to fight anyone; I'd rather the U.S. spend all the money we spend on weapons on education instead. And if we did have to fight North Korea- why would it be wrong to use bombs? Why waste lives invading? What would your country do?

It's like North Korea- we can assume that the country isn't a nice place to live because of the strict military control and food problems, but we cannot be sure, as Macnme stated earlier, that they are the "bad guy".

TL;DR
I attempt to prove the point - I cannot adequately speak for all of America, obviously, but neither can anyone else, so stop bemoaning "America" - with a lot of possibly over-critical rhetorical questions; it is good to see the opinions of other intelligent people, even if I don't agree.

2010-12-30 20:29:00

Author:
Stoicrow

Posts: 276

It's the sad truth of the human condition.

On an individual level , we all want to get along. We are taught that violence is not the answer, and of course nobody wants a war.
But then, once we've formed into a society, we then think it's a good idea to spend billions building weapons of mass destruction, and go starting wars.

You have to wonder why any society would go to war with another society - when the individuals that make up those societies don't want to fight each other.
It's the leadership that want to fight each other. The older generation willing to sacrifice the younger generation.

The poor North Korean farm worker - who has been starved through international sanctions and denied a voice by his countries military regime - is going to be the one who pays with his life for North Koreas and Americas leaders poisoning us against each other.

But America is not blameless in this scenario. America started the Korean war because it wanted to stop the spread of communism. and communist governemts have never been able to provide for their people because they have always had to divert resources in order to fight aggresive democracies, who are hell bent on seeing their demise. It was an Ideological war, rather than one fought over resource, surely one of the most idiotic reasons for starting a war? [akin to Gullivers travels and "They open their eggs from the round end!"]

America currently spends 20 times more than it's closest rival (Russia) on it's military expendature. And if we agree that war is wrong, then surely the biggest Industrial War Machine on the planet is also in the wrong? (it should also be noted that America has the biggest prison population per capita of any nation [ironic, considering they call themselves "The Land of the Free"], by a large margin - a majority from deprived backgournds who's only crime was to be addicted to an addictive substance - and these are used as a kind of 'slave labour' - America has a ban on importing goods from other countries that are made by a "prison population" - but has no such quams about using it's own populace for cheap labour)

But I'll concede - you cannot blame the individual American for the actions of their governments - any more than you can blame the average North Korean for the actions of it's leadership.
But would any individual American accept a collective punishment for the actions of it's government? - because essentially, that is what you are asking the North Korean people to accept?!

(I'm not trolling here, or deliberately being anti-american - but in a thread that is overwhelmingly Anti-North Korean, I am simply trying to play devils advocate and provide a bit of balance to the argument)

2010-12-31 10:11:00

Author:
Macnme

Posts: 1970

You are blaming all of America for past actions that aren't representative of the entire population

No, he's not. He's blaming the state* of the USA for the past actions of the state of America. Which, once you get beyond the point that it upsets your sensibilities as an American, is actually pretty reasonable.

If it's perfectly reasonable (as demonstrated by the attitudes in this thread and in our culture in general) to discuss the nature of North Korea, the state, as antagonists in this on-going narrative, with zero acknowledgment of the individual, then I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone to criticise one of the Western states as a state. The parallels are undeniable and realistically, if we acknowledge N. Korea to be a totalitarian dictatorship, then arguably the average person living in the west is more culpable for the actions it's government takes than the average North Korean. So it is undeniably and immensely hypocritical for us to sit here calling North Korea bad guys, or tolerating other people calling North Korea bad guys, then at the same time chastising someone for doing exactly the same to our countries.

*confused if state is the correct word here - normally it feels right, but with it being the "united states" it sounds wrong... You get the idea

As a random side note: No one wants a fair fight... Because a fair fight is one you might lose. It's a long time since armies would turn up at a field of battle and set up ranks and have then the generals would have a little chat in front of everyone one and then they'd agree to have a jolly old scrap. No, modern warfare is all about ensuring that the conditions of battle are most favourable to you and least favourable to your enemies, so you can decimate them with the minimal damage to yourself. Having a "fair fight" isn't strategically advantageous

2010-12-31 11:05:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

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