Archive: 29 posts

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So I'm making a level atm. I always rant on about consistency within gameplay elements, but I also feel hidden/invisible/soundless checkpoints keep the player immersed in the world you have created.. I can't decide wether to have seemless/unnoticable checkpoints to keep the player immersed, or have a consistant style checkpoint thoughout the level, which lets the play knows the risk/limits. Assuming my hidden checkpoints are placed in fair positions (for example before a hard obstacle), does it matter? What do you prefer? Do you even care? For poll/arguments sake, lets pretend all checkpoints are infinite and spacing/placement is fair throughout.

2010-11-10 21:36:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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i prefer small but visible like 1x1 (small grid) sized checkpoints. But with levels I play, nice decorated ones that match the level theme are hard to notice.

2010-11-10 21:43:00 Author: TheAffected Posts: 626

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well, invisible/uber-tiny checkpoints are only usefull (not really usefull, more of a visual improvement) if you're making a realistic level, (my opinion) as they can ruin the theme and such... othervise it's actually best to just leave them around the level in their original state, or sticker them with something nice. so mega detail/realistic level = invisible checkpoint. any random normal funny platform = normal checkpoint or stickied. (as long as you realize it's a checkpoint in other words) um... yeah, that's how i see it.

2010-11-10 21:44:00 Author: >er. Posts: 785

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I like when the checkpoints are easily visible but they also blend with the scenery... Even if it's just a sticker of the same texture from the material behind. Depending on the theme, you can also blend the checkpoint even more into the scenery, like in that BioShock level where the checkpoints are vita-chambers.

2010-11-10 21:46:00 Author: gdn001 Posts: 5891

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I would go with hidden checkpoints if at all possible. I personally think small checkpoints look extremely tacky when not placed well, and regular checkpoints are a hit-or-miss kind of deal in LBP. If you can sneak in some hidden checkpoints and signify them in some way (i.e. sticker, decoration, etc.), then that's what you should do.

2010-11-10 21:47:00 Author: piggabling Posts: 2979

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I like the regular checkpoints. I don't know why, but I just don't like the small ones, the don't appeal to me. If you don't want it seen, just hide it and make it activated by a switch.

2010-11-10 21:48:00 Author: iBubek Posts: 682

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I've never been uhm... exmersed... by checkpoints, so just leave them in approximately the default size. The game has trained me to recognize a certain size of white circle as a safe point, so why mess with that? I don't mind if you dress them up a little.

2010-11-10 21:50:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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I say nothing beats a regular sized, well placed checkpoint within the scenery as the large/tiny/invisible ones just don't feel natural to me. I can see in instances where these small ones would come in handy such as in a tiny vehicle or something like that but I say for a regular level, go for a regular one. You can even give them a nice sticker or decoration that compliments the scenery.

2010-11-11 23:08:00 Author: LFiers Posts: 161

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A blended checkpoint is very suitable and nice. Though, if you want to stick to level a plain, clear level; then a regular checkpoint. I guess it depends on what you're building specifically.

2010-11-12 03:13:00 Author: Spark151 Posts: 801

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I have to agree with others that small or invisible look bad. Also if the check point is invisible then you pretty much have to have it infinate so the player doesn't have to guess at the number of lifes they have left. Also it looks bad when a full sized sack boy spawns from a little check point.

2010-11-16 16:22:00 Author: celsus Posts: 822

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I would say regular sized if you can make it work with the scenery, smaller if it needs better blending and invisible if for some reason checkpoints make your level look like a horrible mess

2010-11-16 16:47:00 Author: damaz10 Posts: 771

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Depends on the level. Mostly I leave them as they are, but in one example I can remember (may be more, but this is the only one I can think of), I hid them as much as I could, because it fit the theme.

2010-11-16 21:36:00 Author: kirbyman62 Posts: 1893

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I agree, to everyone who has posted above. you know, what ever looks best or Looks like a safe point and several others. In a level that i am building, in meny spots the player would spawn out of site. With out glitching, it does not ruin the scenery. i am thinking about puting it behind something that the player goes by and hears the sound of the checkpoint. For the amount of lives, i never use the single life ones. I want the player to finish the level and not rate bad because its "to hard"

2010-11-16 22:06:00 Author: Unknown User

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It depends. I don't like the player suddenly appearing from nowhere after dying - so small ones are a No-no. However, you could cleverly conceal the checkpoint behind a hidden door - so when the person dies, they go back, and a hidden door opens where there's a checkpoint. That way you can keep it hidden, and it wouldn't ruin the atmosphere. You could even make some kind of marker that fits in with your level to show where all the checkpoints are. I want to give a good example, but I can't think of any except Comphermc's Aperture Science level - where it kind of tells you you've got a checkpoint, but the checkpoint only appears when it's needed. Invisible and small aren't great though...

2010-11-17 01:05:00 Author: standby250 Posts: 1113

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I agree with Standby, really if the checkpoint more goes with the environment itself, then it flows more consistently with the theme of the level.

2010-11-17 02:23:00 Author: DaSackBoy Posts: 606

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I'm in favour of visible and regular sized checkpoints although I think they're a bit unsightly left plain unless you're going for a plain look or a brown circle shape would look good where the checkpoint is. This thread made me experiment in a blank level, I designed 10 or so checkpoints. Best one I came across is the decoration from PotC DLC, the hull cannon. When enlarged enough and placed dead centre the white cricle when activated is actually visible around the cannon inside the hatch that surrounds the cannon, although you have to have the checkpoint in the third plane and a platform in the first otherwise sackboy spawns inside the polygons of the decoration which looks pants. Another good one was using coin or circular decorations but within the white outer circle or covering the entire checkpoint with large mask decorations. That last one's quite good because the checkpoint is completely hidden behind the stone head decoration (and a few leaves for variety) but if the only time you use that stone head is for checkpoints then after passing the first one and hearing the gong the user knows it's a checkpoint yet it blends with the level if you're doing an ancient temple or ruin theme. Might not apply to the level you have in mind but maybe you could find a decoration more fitting to your level and try the same method with that. Can you specify a theme for your level? This designing checkpoints lark is quite fun, I might make a concept checkpoint for you to evaluate.

2010-11-17 14:39:00 Author: SeanyC-SeanyDo Posts: 115

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http://i51.tinypic.com/2hfuu1k.jpg http://i51.tinypic.com/savzvb.jpg http://i51.tinypic.com/2niw31g.jpg http://i51.tinypic.com/16a8itl.jpg

2010-11-18 01:56:00 Author: SeanyC-SeanyDo Posts: 115

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Lolz, kinda funky checkpoints there.

2010-11-18 04:22:00 Author: DaSackBoy Posts: 606

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If they're well placed and they work, then what's the problem? A checkpoint's a checkpoint, no matter what its looks (or doesn't looks) like.

2010-11-18 04:52:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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If they're well placed and they work, then what's the problem? A checkpoint's a checkpoint, no matter what its looks (or doesn't looks) like. i agree just make the checkpoints how u want to

2010-11-22 03:00:00 Author: FEAR Posts: 337

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lol, out of all those responses did it help or just make things more confusing??

2010-11-22 18:47:00 Author: John82wa Posts: 221

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Outside of space constraints in a vehicle or box or something, or an alternative to moving the checkpoint away/demitting it in a single screen survival-type set up, I really prefer the default checkpoint for myself. I don't mind at all if they're plain either, or just colored to blend. I think the awareness of what's at stake at least in a semi-challenging game with checkpoints makes the gameplay more exciting. I don't hold it against anyone for using them... I've even seen giant size ones that seem to fit really well into themes as well. It just always seems odd when I spawn out of nowhere and didn't even know I activated a checkpoint, even though it is immersive. A good example of when using it seems entirely right: in Dragon Slayer when you're riding the red dragon. If you fell off it, you'd need to respawn but a checkpoint glued to a dragon's head would seem kind of aesthetically wrong.

2010-11-22 21:39:00 Author: Unknown User

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I can't decide whether to have seemless/unnoticable checkpoints to keep the player immersed, or have a consistant style checkpoint thoughout the level, which lets the play knows the risk/limits. From my perspective, as long as you have a checkpoint before something that's a challenge, then you don't need it to be visible. If you're after complete immersion then I find the visible checkpoints kind of counteractive as they are a visual reminder that you're playing "a level", as opposed to exploring an environment. Personally, I'd rather stumble onto a difficult section of gameplay without the forewarning of a checkpoint, but I'd certainly want it to be there so I could start that part again. Sometimes checkpoints can ruin the 'surprise', but I am constantly in awe of the way people manage to disguise them. But that's just me. Good luck with your project.

2010-11-22 21:49:00 Author: BabyDoll1970 Posts: 1567

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lol, out of all those responses did it help or just make things more confusing?? The responses and the results of the poll are quite interesting. It seems hiding checkpoints are a double edged sword... helps in some areas, takes away in others (NinjaMicWZ raised my main concern). Babydoll summed up my thoughts pretty well on where I stand. (get out of my head btw) As for my level, currently I have one hidden checkpoint which I feel works well. If I continue my hidden checkpoint plans, it will break my golden rule of "keep all elements consistent", visually at least. The checkpoints will still have the same value (infinite), will always have a "safe zone" and I shall pay extra attention to the placement/spacing when building and testing. Disguising the checkpoints is also pretty fun, so that's another reason for. (What's the point of creating if you're not having fun right?) I was always going to hide my checkpoints regardless of the poll results (unless it was overwhelmingly against). I was just curious as to what other people thought about the subject, and how many people would be ticked off by my design choice. However the level is not complete (understatement, ha), and if the invisible checkpoints don't feel or play right, I won't hesitate to cut them. Keep the comments and votes coming, it's some interesting reading.

2010-11-23 05:51:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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Yeah, I always use Infinate checkpoints. It feels really bad if your playing a really good level and run out of lives halfway through. I don't think I've ever replayed a non-story level after running out of lives.

2010-11-23 20:55:00 Author: kirbyman62 Posts: 1893

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Back in the day some of the most riveting stuff had finite lives before they brought out the infinite checkpoint. Like the first time I played H.A.T.E. by Voltiare and died in the very last inner circle going for the red switch, but I couldn't wait to give it another shot. It had a perfect progression from a few little jumps to more complex challenges in each area. Even to this day when I show friends that level it always gets really tense if the last life alarm is going off there.

2010-11-23 23:49:00 Author: Unknown User

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I would have to say Regular. I prefer being able to tell when I have a new supply of lives, and it will be much easier to blend even the regular checkpoints and scoreboards into the environment when LBP2 comes out. I saw in a video that you can tweak any checkpoint and the scoreboard to preset material choices! I'd be intrested in seeing more about that feature...

2010-11-24 02:59:00 Author: Super_Clone Posts: 849

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I've never much cared for the look of checkpoints in lbp, but imho there ought to be some indication that the player has reached a checkpoint. Just about every game that uses checkpoints lets you know when you've reached one and there's reasons for that. It can be incredibly frustrating when you're playing a game and you die and suddenly realize you have to start over from "all the way back there," and it kind of makes a player feel comfortable to know that they won't be going back too far. So if it were me and I wanted to hide the checkpoints to increase immersion, I would find another way to let the player know that they're safe. A torch lighting perhaps... depending on the theme of course. I can see this leading to all kinds of interesting things in lbp2: since there will presumably be a lot of levels that use player controlled sackbots, checkpoints won't be usable in a lot of cases, so creators will have to make their own. I suppose one could sort of hack in a checkpoint that actually opens for a bot (there's a way to capture opened checkpoints, so one could be emitted overlapping the existing cp at the same time as the bot emits and it would look like the bot came out of the cp), but I would be more interested in more creative checkpoints: a crystal that lights up, a computer console that boots up, a little fairy that waves her wand at you (from Spyro), or whatever.

2010-11-24 09:45:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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lol, out of all those responses did it help or just make things more confusing?? 2 be honest i have no idea. LOL

2010-11-25 05:00:00 Author: FEAR Posts: 337

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