Archive: 14 posts

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The other day someone posted some information that we already had and even though I'd read it loads of times, this stuck out at me:- "You can link emitters to an object in the level, rather than something in your popit (although that is still an option)" Now, correct me if I'm wrong (if I am then what I'm about to say is stupid ) but in LBP you could put the exact same things into 10 emitters but it would still count as 10 things. I know this because I made a complexed creature and tried to spawn it throughout the level...it doesn't work. Basically I had the idea that if you made a level out of lots of uniform parts, you could make a level that almost went on forever, just by emitting the same parts over and over again. But you can't, you might as well just make the level. But now with LBP2 you can have a whole game in one level, just by emitting the same parts again and again. Think of Fallout 3, think of the subway parts where everything is repeated, with just a few specific differences in layout and content. All you would need is emitters and dark/light matter to hold it all in place...and the logic of course but that's easy, just sequencers. MM have done a good job with the tools and changes they've given us. With the likes of holographic materials and the changes to the thermo, you can fit alot more stuff in a level. And that's not forgetting the level links

2010-10-22 21:01:00 Author: ballisticola Posts: 157

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LBP does allow levels where you emit chunks of a level over and over again indefinitely...one that comes to mind is a survival game called Canyon Jazz (if I recall the name correctly). That one spawns entire rooms and keeps moving them toward you with some kind of off camera conveyor belt, and it frames the playable area with gas so you have to keep running forward to the next room. But there are only something like 7-10 rooms it "randomly" picks between, so maybe only 7-10 emitters in the whole level. I do think LBP1 always looked at worst case scenarios when calculating thermo impact from emitters, even ones that were logically impossible to occur, whereas LBP2 is supposedly smarter about this. Like if you had your room emitters hooked up to a selector, LBP2 might realize only 1 room can exist at a time, so it doesn't count that as 7-10 rooms worth of thermo, just the one. But I'm pretty sure emitting 10 objects at once, even if it's the same object shot out of 10 emitters, is going to have an non-trivial impact in either game because it's adding 10 more physical objects to the world that have to be simulated, just as if you skipped the emitters and copied your complex creature 10 times in create mode.

2010-10-22 21:48:00 Author: LittleBigDave Posts: 324

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LBP does allow levels where you emit chunks of a level over and over again indefinitely...one that comes to mind is a survival game called Canyon Jazz (if I recall the name correctly). That one spawns entire rooms and keeps moving them toward you with some kind of off camera conveyor belt, and it frames the playable area with gas so you have to keep running forward to the next room. But there are only something like 7-10 rooms it "randomly" picks between, so maybe only 7-10 emitters in the whole level. I do think LBP1 always looked at worst case scenarios when calculating thermo impact from emitters, even ones that were logically impossible to occur, whereas LBP2 is supposedly smarter about this. Like if you had your room emitters hooked up to a selector, LBP2 might realize only 1 room can exist at a time, so it doesn't count that as 7-10 rooms worth of thermo, just the one. But I'm pretty sure emitting 10 objects at once, even if it's the same object shot out of 10 emitters, is going to have an non-trivial impact in either game because it's adding 10 more physical objects to the world that have to be simulated, just as if you skipped the emitters and copied your complex creature 10 times in create mode. In LBP1 the game registered the emitter + all of the potential emitted items. So if you had an emitter That could emit ten blocks it would count the thermo as emitter+ten blocks. In LBP2 the thermo does not count an object until it is emitted. So all you see on the thermo is the emitter. So, yes, you can spawn level bits infinately.

2010-10-25 23:06:00 Author: Biv Posts: 734

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In LBP1 the game registered the emitter + all of the potential emitted items. So if you had an emitter That could emit ten blocks it would count the thermo as emitter+ten blocks. In LBP2 the thermo does not count an object until it is emitted. So all you see on the thermo is the emitter. So, yes, you can spawn level bits infinately. I am curious on how the thermo works in LBP2, and not being in the beta, I can only speculate. But I would think it must be more complicated than only counting the emitter, and not counting the object at all until it is emitted, since thermo gets calculated while in create mode and the actual emitting events happen later in play mode. For example, suppose you made some object that is so big and complicated you can only make 50 copies of it before the thermo is full. The full thermo means it would over-stress the game engine to simulate any more than 50. In that scenario, it would be a bad thing if the game still let you later emit more than 50 copies at once using emitters, for the same reason it wouldn't let you create 50 copies in create mode - the engine can't handle it. The thermometer should be able to stop you, which seems to mean it would have to initially count more than just the fact you created an emitter.

2010-10-25 23:29:00 Author: LittleBigDave Posts: 324

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The emitter has a certain amount of thermo before the first object is emitted (< the cost of one item, somewhere around 50%, but it probably varies) which I'm assuming is the data used to hold the object in memory so it can be loaded into the playing area without lag. Once emitted, the thermo rises and does so with each object emitted. Note that if you reach the max emitted and then destroy everything, that initial thermo that was used to keep the object in waiting is freed up - the engine is smart enough to know that the object no longer needs to be held in reserve.

2010-10-25 23:57:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Once emitted, the thermo rises and does so with each object emitted. I am still confused, as normally the emits happen in play mode, so we can't always know the thermo impact they will have, or am I missing something?

2010-10-26 01:42:00 Author: LittleBigDave Posts: 324

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But you can view the thermo impact of them in create mode for testing. They've taken away the safety net of worst case scenario thermo for emitters, but also taken away the constriction of it. The thermo changes dynamically when you use emitters, but it's up to you to form a strategy in your design to ensure that the level never breaks.

2010-10-26 10:16:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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@ RTM223 Is it possible to emit objects, for instances a levels intro without using any thermo? I notice an initial thermo taken by the intro through the emitter, even though I'll never use the intro in conjunction with any of the special effects I pop in to the level. I know, the smarter emitter can not detected if I'll use both at the same time even though they take up the same thermo space roughly. Possibly I go to the thermometer glitch for a solution (if the glitch still works)? I want to create a situation where I can emit pieces of the stage (I'll easily manage the task) and get rid of the old sections just to make the levels longer, push more detail and stream more action on to the screen. Thanks.

2010-10-26 13:18:00 Author: PPp_Killer Posts: 449

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What I think your asking: My level rests at 80% thermo, my (emitted) intro takes up an extra 20%, as do my emitted effects. Overall there is 120% thermo. Basically, as long as you destroy the intro (or most likely let the emitter time out, you will recover the thermo it used up). If you also set the max emitted to one, then you are liable to drop back down to 60-70%, after the intro is gone - which would give you more space for effects.

2010-10-26 13:36:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Actually, the problems with emitting my enemies was that I was emitting too many So what's the difference between now and this "You can link emitters to an object in the level, rather than something in your popit (although that is still an option)"?

2010-10-27 20:00:00 Author: ballisticola Posts: 157

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So what's the difference between now and this "You can link emitters to an object in the level, rather than something in your popit (although that is still an option)"? Linking objects to emitters means that you can capture any object or objects in the level for the emitter to emit. The difference is that you don't need to capture it to your popit first. But, it also means that you have to keep this reference object in the level, or the emitters won't emit it. *looks at rtm223* If the emitters are smart enough to update the status of the referred object (are they?), wouldn't it mean that you could make an infinite loop of emitters emitting emitters emitting already mentioned emitters?

2010-10-27 20:21:00 Author: Unknown User

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I've got it now All the stuff about changes applying to all the emitters, makes sense now

2010-10-27 23:03:00 Author: ballisticola Posts: 157

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Linking objects to emitters means that you can capture any object or objects in the level for the emitter to emit. The difference is that you don't need to capture it to your popit first. But, it also means that you have to keep this reference object in the level, or the emitters won't emit it. *looks at rtm223* If the emitters are smart enough to update the status of the referred object (are they?), wouldn't it mean that you could make an infinite loop of emitters emitting emitters emitting already mentioned emitters? This. I want to know this. This is something I thought of doing in LBP1 but couldn't... it's actually useful for many applications. Even dynamically editing the emitted objects would be fun (sackboy gets to adjust an object, then it is emitted in another place, like a puzzle game)

2010-10-28 09:50:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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(sackboy gets to adjust an object, then it is emitted in another place, like a puzzle game) Your idea can has obvious to me I've understood that the emitters would update the referred object's state, but when I tried it, it strongly seemed that it did... maybe it does it in Play Mode only.

2010-10-28 11:08:00 Author: Unknown User

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