Archive: 30 posts

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How to do: -Permanent Switch -Set-Reset (selector solution is Aya idea) -One-Shooter -Analog/Speed signal regulator http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk3wT5Q8Tog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk3wT5Q8Tog -Analog Signal Analysis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yundMiJ5GM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yundMiJ5GM -Analog Signal Processing via Gates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIE7shi2GoQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yundMiJ5GM Video still processing, so wait if nothing showing up Might do few more later

2010-10-21 15:14:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Very nice! The idea of using a Selector for an SR latch is interesting, though I do wonder about how much therm it takes relative to two NOR or NAND gates. I actually do have a few questions (http://forums.littlebigplanet.com/t5/General-Discussion/Detailed-questions-about-LBP2-s-logic/td-p/316670) about the logic tools that will help me with some things I'm thinking of making once LBP2 is out (or if I ever get in beta). Any answers you can provide would be very much appreciated.

2010-10-21 17:32:00 Author: Balorn Posts: 92

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I don't know what those old logic contraptions with two winches rigged to a three way switch were officially called, but now you can save therm by replacing them with the new tool called "direction combiner".

2010-10-21 19:33:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Look like ViniciusBR11 answer your questions as i seen his levels he is good on logic ;] As for positional input on sequencer it sets position of sequencer cursor by % of analog signal, for example: 0% will place cursor at beginning of sequencer track 100% at end 50% on half 25% on 1/4 and so on rtm223 play with it and i think he plan to write about it in his blog, i gonna demo what you can do with it in my next video too

2010-10-21 21:37:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Many thanks! I've updated my post over in the official forums; pretty much everything's been answered now. When I first read your response that the sequencer position was absolute I was slightly disappointed until I realized that it could be combined with an analog-controlled timer to make its position relative, making both modes available without having to resort to pistons or other non-circuitboard constructions. I've been amazed that nearly every one of my "Can we do X" questions was answered with "yes"! Now to plan things while I wait for the game to actually come out.

2010-10-22 00:09:00 Author: Balorn Posts: 92

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kk look like you got head for this stuff too ;] wonder what you gonna do in LBP2 Oh and i see you playing with some drawing/simlation tools for LBP2 logic, good good i was thinking about it, someone need to do it or we gonna have to fight with mspaint. I was also thinking to someone to make Eagle lib with LBP2 elelments

2010-10-22 04:03:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Oh and i see you playing with some drawing/simlation tools for LBP2 logic, good good i was thinking about it, someone need to do it or we gonna have to fight with mspaint. I was also thinking to someone to make Eagle lib with LBP2 elelments I'm not familiar with Eagle, but Logisim (http://ozark.hendrix.edu/~burch/logisim/) is nice because it's free, it's Java so it runs on anything, you can make custom circuits with their own inputs/outputs, you can simulate your circuits on it, and it's free. It may not be as pretty as a commercial app, but it works and it's certainly better than mspaint; here's an example, a full adder I put together real quick as an example (the grid dots can be turned off if desired as well): http://balorn.com/lbp2/adder.png The Logisim library I made that has LBP2-like Toggle, Counter and (stackable) Selector circuits is here (http://balorn.com/lbp2/LBP2%20Logic.circ).

2010-10-22 08:36:00 Author: Balorn Posts: 92

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Hmmm can you change appearance of elements in it? it would be nice

2010-10-22 10:01:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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For the basic gates, just direction and size (large/medium/small; the ones I used are small) and of course number of inputs. For your own subcircuits, however you want (http://ozark.hendrix.edu/~burch/logisim/docs/2.6.0/en/guide/subcirc/appear.html) - any size (as long as it's at leat big enough for all the pins), input/output pins on any side and in any order, adding text and lines, etc. You should go ahead and give it a try - it's free and doesn't even require an install (assuming you already have Java); the app just runs directly.

2010-10-22 10:13:00 Author: Balorn Posts: 92

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Oh thats cool i would be nice if it had same icons as on LBP2, also text for tweak setting, you might make a thread on project section on your work ^^

2010-10-22 11:09:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Added new video A/D and D/A conversion

2010-10-25 13:51:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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I'd figured out the sequencer would work for A/D conversion as soon as I heard it had absolute positioning, but I didn't know enough about how the logic gates deal with analog signals to figure out how to do D/A. I do have a few questions about that: Does the OR gate add analog signals? For example, if it has a 10% input and a 20% input will it output at 30%? Similarly, how does the AND gate deal with analog signals? If it has a 40% input and a 50% input, does it output 0%, 40%, 50%, or 20%? How about NOT? How does NOT deal with negative inputs? And how does the XOR gate deal with analog?

2010-10-25 14:37:00 Author: Balorn Posts: 92

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OR is min() AND is max() NOT is 100% - input more details here (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/entry.php?2069-Analogue-Logic-1-Fundamentals)

2010-10-25 14:41:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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rtm223, that is awesome. Bookmarked for when the game comes out (or if I get in beta *hopes*). And I think you mean AND is min() and OR is max(), as that makes more sense and is what you wrote in that article

2010-10-25 15:15:00 Author: Balorn Posts: 92

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I will show gate analog signal effects next i think got also 2 other videos ideas

2010-10-25 15:32:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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The whole analog/digital duality thing and how the logic deals with it has completely blown my mind with possibilities. I'm trying to come up with a good way to build/simulate this, but I have a feeling if I were to try to write a program to do so myself we'd be beta testing LBP5 before I finished it. =P Still, I'm considering building some add-ons to Logisim to allow it. I'd have to basically re-make all the gates from scratch... and learn Java... but I have some ideas on how it could be done. On the one hand, I wish I was in beta so I wouldn't have to keep bugging you folks about how things worked, but on the other hand, if I was in beta I'm not sure I'd be able to get anything done IRL...

2010-10-25 18:18:00 Author: Balorn Posts: 92

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Maybe try first to make drawing functions you can't simulating something that you can't draw it, i really looking forward to it

2010-10-25 18:41:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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AND gates won't give you digital to analogue conversion by the way.... That circuit is operating in purely analogue mode. In some cases, like the one in the video, the end result is identical, but you've completely avoided the digital processing system there and in honesty, that video is pretty misleading on a subject that is confusing enough as it is.

2010-10-25 22:10:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Maybe try first to make drawing functions you can't simulating something that you can't draw it, i really looking forward to it Don't get your hopes up; I'm not THAT good...

2010-10-25 23:43:00 Author: Balorn Posts: 92

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Opsss, oh well i failed as always well i don't know hwat to do now with it

2010-10-26 03:00:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Not really. The technique itself is sound for doing what you want to do, under certain circumstances, and in those certain circumstances it's probably the best way. It's just the naming of it being Digital to Analogue Conversion that is misleading in a more general sense.

2010-10-26 09:57:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Yea i rename it, i gonna call it "Analog Signal Analysis", should be more suitable. But can't fix video

2010-10-26 12:47:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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-Set-Reset (selector solution is Aya idea) FYI, the main reason I like this approach is that you additionally have the Cycle input which allows you to toggle, so it's effectively a set-reset-toggle switch. I made one of these ages ago for elevator logic. The basic idea was that, for a simple two-floor elevator, you can have a button on each floor to "call" the elevator to that floor (which map to the set and reset), and the toggle button goes inside the elevator car itself, allowing you to switch between floors. The idea of using a Selector for an SR latch is interesting, though I do wonder about how much therm it takes relative to two NOR or NAND gates. Each component takes up roughly the same amount of thermo, so one selector (or counter) uses half as much thermo as two NOR/NAND gates.

2010-10-26 20:27:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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As for positional input on sequencer it sets position of sequencer cursor by % of analog signal, for example: 0% will place cursor at beginning of sequencer track 100% at end 50% on half 25% on 1/4 and so on Very interesting. I'm sure I'll be able to come up with all kinds of fun uses for that. Perhaps something like one state on the sequencer for each part of a mech's walk cycle and, at any time, I'll be able to override it and put it at the exact part of the cycle I want. Does it work on music sequencers too?

2010-10-27 05:54:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Very interesting. I'm sure I'll be able to come up with all kinds of fun uses for that. Perhaps something like one state on the sequencer for each part of a mech's walk cycle and, at any time, I'll be able to override it and put it at the exact part of the cycle I want. Does it work on music sequencers too? Nope - the music sequencer is far less flexible when it comes to input types

2010-10-27 09:18:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Very interesting. I'm sure I'll be able to come up with all kinds of fun uses for that. Perhaps something like one state on the sequencer for each part of a mech's walk cycle and, at any time, I'll be able to override it and put it at the exact part of the cycle I want. Does it work on music sequencers too? You would need to play with timers to do so, by setting sequencer to positional it lose ability to play a sequence and you need to move cursor manually with mentioned timers.

2010-10-27 12:48:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Is it bad that you guys lost me pretty much on the first post? I was doing fine and then you said the word "Analog" and started talking about percentages and my head exploded.

2010-10-27 15:08:00 Author: Biv Posts: 734

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Well Analog signal is speed signal that you had LBP1, you know you had switch set to speed and connected to the motor and motor moves as fest as switch is close to On position. Since in LBP2 that signal is used not only for speed in majority as it was in LBP1 we started to call it analog signal. Analog signal can have value from -1 to 1 so it's makes equivalent to -100% to 100%

2010-10-27 15:22:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Nope - the music sequencer is far less flexible when it comes to input types That's too bad. It would be cool to be able to skip around to different parts of a song on cue, but I suppose it could be done using separate music sequencers.

2010-10-27 23:38:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Added analog signal processing via gates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIE7shi2GoQ

2010-10-31 15:49:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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