Archive: 26 posts

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Am I correct that there is still no way to easily make a material static and that it's still necessary to glue small bits of invisible dark matter to it? The material tweaker doesn't have this option that I can see... A mover that doesn't move can still be manipulated by the sack person...and that probably isn't easy on the thermo... The only material with a property you can direectly edit appears to be an animation speed property for the surface of texture of dark matter (which is pretty cool).

2010-10-20 15:06:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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Gravity changer set to 100% dampening

2010-10-20 15:29:00 Author: napero7 Posts: 1653

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Gravity changer set to 100% dampening Gravity Changer huh? I haven't gotten to that yet...so it affects materials and isn't a global setting like lighting/water, etc. Not sure I understand how that would work (or how you'd use it to affect a sack-person) but I'll play around with it tonight. So is that the idea...to slap gravity changers on everything in lieu of glueing dark matter to it? I wonder what sort of overhead that will entail...I usually wind up with hundreds of invisible dark matter "nails" to fix the scenery in my levels. The gravity changer just doesn't sound right for this purpose. A material property would be much better than anything you have to affix or glue since you won't have to worry about it's location when corner editing, etc.

2010-10-20 16:19:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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The gravity changer is the only solution at the moment. And unless you already found out, the gravity changer just changes the weight of a material (from normal weight to no weight) and then there is the dampening setting which makes objects move slower and if set to 100%, makes the object static like dark matter. Maybe there should be a dynamic and static option on all materials just like on the PSP, that could be handy. Sticking dark matter here and there is still an option and maybe the best option if you have lots of stuff in a level. I'm pretty sure that objects with gravity changers still count on the thermo as dynamic objects where as objects glued to dark matter count as static.

2010-10-20 17:03:00 Author: napero7 Posts: 1653

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I think I'll post a suggestion on the beta forums then...I couldn't find an existing topic on this. This really is the #1 thing Mm could do to make my create time more enjoyable. So the PSP version has this option, nice, and good to know!

2010-10-20 18:30:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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I'm pretty sure that objects with gravity changers still count on the thermo as dynamic objects where as objects glued to dark matter count as static. I did some brief testing and this does indeed appear to be the case.

2010-10-20 18:46:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I did some brief testing and this does indeed appear to be the case. Cool, I posted this as a suggestion; now I just have to cross my fingers and hope. I've got to believe this will be a huge help to everyone...think how nice this would be even for something as simple as floating score bubbles. All the new stuff is really fun to mess around with and does open tons of possibilities but I'd love to get some of the basic fiddly bits sorted out.

2010-10-20 19:05:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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I did some brief testing and this does indeed appear to be the case. And I can tell you why. It's because you can turn the gravity switch off.

2010-10-20 19:43:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578

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And I can tell you why. It's because you can turn the gravity switch off. And you'd think that but the emitter uses barely any thermo (if any) until something is emitted. Same should go for gravity switch except turning it off would raise the thermo. Wish that'd work :|

2010-10-20 20:10:00 Author: Jord-bord Posts: 153

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The gravity changer is the only solution at the moment. And unless you already found out, the gravity changer just changes the weight of a material (from normal weight to no weight) and then there is the dampening setting which makes objects move slower and if set to 100%, makes the object static like dark matter. Maybe there should be a dynamic and static option on all materials just like on the PSP, that could be handy. Sticking dark matter here and there is still an option and maybe the best option if you have lots of stuff in a level. I'm pretty sure that objects with gravity changers still count on the thermo as dynamic objects where as objects glued to dark matter count as static. Be aware - the gravity tweaker does NO SUCH THING as change the weight of an object. As you should know, two objects will fall at the same rate regardless of their weight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C5_dOEyAfk But the gravity tweaker changes how fast things fall. It's affecting gravity.

2010-10-20 21:16:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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As you should know, two objects will fall at the same rate regardless of their weight. Only if you assume there are no resistive forces and, in LBP, it's easy to demonstrate that this is not a valid assumption. Sponge falls slower than metal in the game. Also, if you want to be technically accurate, which it seems you do: Weight is the force exerted by a mass as a result of gravity. If you change the gravitational constant acting upon an object, without modifying it's mass, as is the case with the gravity tweaker (as far as we can tell, ignoring dampening, which I assume you are ignoring, as that is a separate force altogether), then you have inherently modified it's weight. Therefore it is reasonable, and indeed correct, to say that the gravity tweaker modifies the weight of an object. It also modifies the gravitational constant. But the two things are intrinsically linked and inseparable from one another, in the context of a specific object. amirite? I am drunk, so I might not be, but I'm pretty sure that's correct

2010-10-20 23:38:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Be aware - the gravity tweaker does NO SUCH THING as change the weight of an object. As you should know, two objects will fall at the same rate regardless of their weight. Not to sure tbh.. Weight is Mass x Force of Gravity Therefore if you decrease the force of gravity via the gravity tweaker then you are effectively decreasing the weight... EDIT: beat me to it rtm223... With a much better explanation

2010-10-20 23:46:00 Author: Unknown User

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So... a 100% dampened object w/ no gravity counts as a static object, though it can still change layers? Eeexcellent.

2010-10-25 18:33:00 Author: Unknown User

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amirite? I am drunk, so I might not be, but I'm pretty sure that's correct LMAO! Sounds pretty good for a drunk guy! I think there's a good PSA in there somewhere.... "Please Mod responsibly... don't drink and Mod." Sorry, back on topic then.... great to know that DM is still more thermo friendly. I've been still using a lot of the old tricks (that's right.. I still use pistons instead of movers... whaddaya' gonna' do about it?), but have switched from DM to Gravity Tweakers... looks like I'll have to start making decisions when one is more approprate than another if this is the case. Thanks for the tip.

2010-10-27 10:09:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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So... a 100% dampened object w/ no gravity counts as a static object, though it can still change layers? Eeexcellent. Ohhh, so dark matter can't change layers? I did not know that.

2010-10-27 10:29:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Only if you assume there are no resistive forces and, in LBP, it's easy to demonstrate that this is not a valid assumption. Sponge falls slower than metal in the game. Also, if you want to be technically accurate, which it seems you do: Weight is the force exerted by a mass as a result of gravity. If you change the gravitational constant acting upon an object, without modifying it's mass, as is the case with the gravity tweaker (as far as we can tell, ignoring dampening, which I assume you are ignoring, as that is a separate force altogether), then you have inherently modified it's weight. Therefore it is reasonable, and indeed correct, to say that the gravity tweaker modifies the weight of an object. It also modifies the gravitational constant. But the two things are intrinsically linked and inseparable from one another, in the context of a specific object. amirite? I am drunk, so I might not be, but I'm pretty sure that's correct Yes, you are right. :star: X5 for drunk RTM223 And to keep on track (even thought I'm not in beta). Does a dampened antigrav cardboard square count as a true static object (like DM of something glued to floor) or does it still count as a non static (anything not attached to DM or floor) that wont move.

2010-10-27 11:15:00 Author: TheAffected Posts: 626

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A far as I know, things don't move when they've been 100% dampened. If they do, it's news to me. But, on the whole, the gravity tweaker is so much simpler than DM. If you want to use DM, you have to go through that painful process of making the DM small enough, and then sometimes struggling to find it, when you can just stick a tweaker straight on the object, and be done in about 2 seconds. Then you can turn it off or on if you want to, as well as just deleting it really quickly. I'm not a great fan of invisible DM tbh.

2010-10-27 14:54:00 Author: standby250 Posts: 1113

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A far as I know, things don't move when they've been 100% dampened. If they do, it's news to me. But, on the whole, the gravity tweaker is so much simpler than DM. If you want to use DM, you have to go through that painful process of making the DM small enough, and then sometimes struggling to find it, when you can just stick a tweaker straight on the object, and be done in about 2 seconds. Then you can turn it off or on if you want to, as well as just deleting it really quickly. I'm not a great fan of invisible DM tbh. *sigh* Mm has enough bugs to fix for release that I'm sure they won't consider my static property. Even if the gravity tweaker option has no more thermo overhead than DM (and I'm sure it doesn't) it's still not that great a solution. The tweaker is going to obscure small geomety in create mode...and you can still lose it using the corner editor or cut operation. Gluing invisible DM is indeed a horrible kludge though...

2010-10-27 16:52:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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I prefer visible darkmatter in a place where players won't see it. And with the R2 see-through option it's easier to get to it.

2010-10-27 17:26:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Does LBP2 have the option to make a object not affected by dynamics (besides dark matter?)

2010-10-27 17:40:00 Author: Chazprime Posts: 587

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You mean, like not be affected by thier properties - e.g grabbable, slippery? You can use a material tweaker to make any object grabable or not grabable (including sponge, metal - anything really.) and even making it so it can only be grabbed by one person at a time. Slippery - as far as I know, no way around that. The gravity tweaker can make things heavier, or static. As far as I know, that's all I can think of right now.

2010-10-27 19:25:00 Author: standby250 Posts: 1113

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You mean, like not be affected by thier properties - e.g grabbable, slippery? You can use a material tweaker to make any object grabable or not grabable (including sponge, metal - anything really.) and even making it so it can only be grabbed by one person at a time. Slippery - as far as I know, no way around that. The gravity tweaker can make things heavier, or static. As far as I know, that's all I can think of right now. Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the dynamics flag you can toggle on an object in the LBP PSP version, it was nice to be able to just build without having to worry about sticking dark matter on everything. But it sounds like we have a lot more options in this version anyway so that's good to know.

2010-10-28 17:26:00 Author: Chazprime Posts: 587

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Only if you assume there are no resistive forces and, in LBP, it's easy to demonstrate that this is not a valid assumption. Sponge falls slower than metal in the game. Also, if you want to be technically accurate, which it seems you do: Weight is the force exerted by a mass as a result of gravity. If you change the gravitational constant acting upon an object, without modifying it's mass, as is the case with the gravity tweaker (as far as we can tell, ignoring dampening, which I assume you are ignoring, as that is a separate force altogether), then you have inherently modified it's weight. Therefore it is reasonable, and indeed correct, to say that the gravity tweaker modifies the weight of an object. It also modifies the gravitational constant. But the two things are intrinsically linked and inseparable from one another, in the context of a specific object. amirite? I am drunk, so I might not be, but I'm pretty sure that's correct You could put that post together while you were drunk? ... Give me your powers, NOW.

2010-10-29 21:24:00 Author: Prince Pixelton Posts: 286

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You could put that post together while you were drunk? I was only quite drunk, not very drunk PS. My powers aren't pink, sadly. But they are spelled pow-wahs - emphasis on the ... well, all of it I guess. I'm not a great fan of invisible DM tbh. Why do you need to make it invisible? Generally your level sections will extend beyond the visible portion of the level, so you can just place a big chunk of dark matter offscreen. If you are relatively careful about it, you can also work it so each level section has it's DM anchor point in the same location (i.e. top left). I also tend to ensure that if the DM is in the top left, then it's top left corner extends beyond that level segment, both vertically and horizontally - that way each level section can be aligned to the big grid, without needing the actual scenery to be shaped for it. And the overall benefit is the thermo saving, although if 100% damping does completely remove motion from the object, then technically it could be flagged as static and the thermo adjusted accordingly, so hopefully MM will realise this and patch in a thermo optimisation for 100% dampened objects

2010-10-31 00:52:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Why do you need to make it invisible? Well, everything you said is true. However, what if I wanted to suddenly make something moveable again? Here, I'd just be able to turn off the tweaker. E.g having a cave fall apart or something. With the tweaker, just turn off the tweaker and the ceiling falls down. With DM, I'd have to use a network of stiff rods (hehe) or other methods in order for it to work. Or, if I wanted a small object to be static, then it'd be hard to use visible DM, but yet make it so you can't see it. I mean, I DO use it occassionally, even still. I still much prefer the object tweaker...

2010-10-31 01:00:00 Author: standby250 Posts: 1113

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I dont c y they dont put that in this game. It makes objects much more easy to deal with in the psp version of LBP

2010-10-31 04:24:00 Author: Random Posts: 673

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