Archive: 10 posts

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Hmm.....yeah, the Dark Cavern is okay I guess. Not terribly amazing, but not horribly dull either. Can I leave now? I'm kinda busy today. "Background murmuring" I've got homework to do though. "Rabble Rabble" Okay, okay, fine. Can't win with these people... Anyways, The Dark Cavern was created by crazymario, but it took a little while to find because admittedly "The Dark Cavern" is a fairly generic title and crazymario wasn't the artist's username (try "livingston_tf"). I was originally supposed to review a previous level "The Melody Maker", but he asked for a switch somewhat recently and that's just fine. After finally finding the level I decided to give it a go. I was fairly disappointed. Now, by the end of the stage I found the level to be altogether pretty **** good, and easily the most challenging puzzle platformer I've seen so far in LBP. At least, that's what I really WANT to say but cannot because the two greatest things the artist has going for him are ruined by a couple of bad decisions. So it would appear I've stumbled onto a project I like to call a "potential goldmine"; there's a hell of a lot of promise to be had with this level and all it would take is a little revision to reveal the luster underneath. This would be a classic example of turning coal into diamond. The level is pretty simple, travel through a dark cavern and solve its mysteries along the way. By the way, when the artist meant dark, he REALLY meant dark, as in pitch ****ing black. I can't make much comment about the artistic merit or general appearance of the level because I couldn't actually see any of it until you find hell. Anyways, it's basically puzzle after puzzle in a very cut-and-dry puzzle setting (Cave, Temple, Ruin, Underwater Ruin/Temple/Cave, Ziggurat, Mansion, Abandoned Laboratory/Complex/Research Lab, etc.). There isn't a terribly engaging backstory here, or any story as far as I can gander; it's you exploring a random cave, finding hell underneath, fighting a demon, and then finally resurfacing with a "CONGRATULATIONS". By the sounds of it from this initial standpoint, the level doesn't sound particularly exciting, but there are some plus here that really matters. The puzzles, in my humble opinion, are all very clever and well put together. All of the puzzles are devised in a way that seem like they would encourage some actual thought. For all its worth, I'd say the puzzles are the most impressive part of the level....and even those are somewhat ruined by the horrible decision to EXPLAIN IN FAIRLY OBVIOUS SUBTLETY HOW EACH PUZZLE IS SOLVED, OR AT LEAST WHAT THE FOCUS PIECE IS FOR EACH ONE OF THEM! I'm not even kidding, there are these remains and notes left over from people who have tried to explore the cavern before that basically explain how "If I did this to that block, I might not have died from starvation down here. If you are reading this..." and in one note, before I even have a chance to take note of the puzzle ahead and devise a solving method, I am already told the answer. How does that help the level in any way, honestly? Okay, I suppose you end up making the level more easily accessible to people who are bad at thinking, but then again maybe those kinds of people shouldn't be playing these levels on a regular basis. The end result is you end up taking the most impressive aspect of your design and end up destroying it to please the masses. You'd be better off specializing a specific demographic of players for a level like this, I can tell you I would've loved this level way more had I been given the chance to think. Abraham Lincoln once said "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."; I think it best to not try so hard to appeal your ideas to everyone, but rather to find those that can appreciate it most and appeal it to them. So, after a very long paragraph about what's wrong with this level, here's what I'd recommend for fixing: 1) Make sure people can actually see what you created. This level could potentially be beautiful and I wouldn't even know it. With the abysmally dim lighting present here, the level became a lot more of a chore than an enjoyment. Every room I walked into was just as horribly dark as the last, the very small quantities of natural light produced off the rocks from the game engine were all I had to work with here. Luckily, this problem is very easy to fix: brighten up the stage. I understand the idea behind the level is to be a mysterious dark cavern, enigmatic in presence, but instead it feels more like a hole, too dreary to be appreciated for anything other than a hole in the ground. I guess the initial forced drop at the beginning doesn't help to reinforce that, but the greater problem at heart is the overall lighting of the entire level. So, either brighten up the level as a whole, or keep it the way it is and introduce some artificial lighting, like lanterns or candles. In this level's case it is also especially crucial since there's quite a few scenarios in which the key to the puzzle is grabbing a very blended piece of sponge in the background, and because of the lighting there's no ordinary way to see them other than jumping around trying to grab air and getting lucky. That's probably the easiest way to alienate your players, and I have to be honest I was easily on the verge of quitting the level the first time until I finally found a hanging block that was literally invisible to the naked eye. 2) There's no need for constant spoilers. Giving people hints for tougher puzzles is sometimes acceptable (or at least understandable), but generally the best puzzles are those that help people automatically understand the later puzzles based entirely on what they know from previous ones; giving hints to the player through notes in the cavern (which are ironically not workable since the cavern is so dark I wouldn't be able to read) that all basically give you the answers mostly in advance is really ineffective. The rest simply becomes a series of trudging from switch to switch until the whole thing falls into place. I think it might do you some credit to assume that most human beings have a brain, and at least a few of them can work logic effectively through their heads. Another issue I found with notes to me at least was making the appeal to having this unexplored and unknown cavern fairly pointless. Since you know fairly early on that more than three people have already explored and died down here, the mystery has lost a little focus and now exploring the cavern seem more like the actions of a lunatic. Finally, I suppose you could justify that the notes make up a more narrative part of the level design, but then I'd really have to question you with "What narrative?" There's really nothing else in the entire level to add to a story element except for these notes, and the scenery isn't really doing anything since I can't see any of it, so the end result is that the narrative is non-existent with or without the notes. In my honest opinion, I think you can just cut all the notes out entirely and it will actually benefit the stage, and the bones could be used for narrative through scenery if you really want I guess. Mostly though, the notes have got to go. Overall, I'd say the level isn't entirely bad. Like I said earlier, there's definitely what I feel is a large amount of potential here. Just so we're clear, I'm not bashing this level solely for fun (and because it honestly wasn't that great), but I'm instead criticizing for the sake of hopeful improvement. I want to give the artist an idea of what I, the player in question, thought more especially about his level. This is designed more than a review to be constructive criticism, and I really hope crazymario takes it well. Final Score: 5.5 / 10 Read the commentary below, this level has been rescored recently On a side note, I really have to go back to that homework now. EDIT: Okay, I decided to give the level a second run through under some more optimal conditions. I turned the brightness on my LCD up, and also played in a better lit room. After all that, I have to re-evaluate the score, and some of my feedback. First of all, I guess the lighting just seemed really bad when I played it the first time because I literally couldn't see anything. After trying again with these new conditions, I found that the level is actually visible. Still not VERY visible, I do still think the lighting could use some work, but not as direly as before. Improvement is nice, but it's passable now as opposed to when I first tried it. As for the skeleton quotes, I still stand firm on the point that they really hinder the playing experience, but the artist made a point to note that the standard collection of people that played the level complained about its complexity. I still need to stand by my argument though, if the people think the level is too hard on a mental level, they should probably do more critical/logic thinking problems to enhance their observation. Anyways, sorry crazymario.

2010-10-19 04:36:00 Author: Shining Aquas Posts: 353

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Very good writing here. Also very good feedback. You know what would make your reviews even better? Screenshots. I know that's lots of work, but I am only saying. xD The reviews are still worthwhile as they are. It's a pity that it will take you a LOOOOONG time to get to my level. xD

2010-10-19 09:32:00 Author: figuer39 Posts: 108

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Very good writing here. Also very good feedback. You know what would make your reviews even better? Screenshots. I know that's lots of work, but I am only saying. xD The reviews are still worthwhile as they are. It's a pity that it will take you a LOOOOONG time to get to my level. xD Thank you. I tried the screenshot thing before. The reason I stopped was not because it was frustrating (it kinda was, but I was okay with that), but because my PS3 has the latest firmware that prevents unknown USB ports from being recognized. Sony's new anti-piracy measures are actually preventing me from uploading screenshots from my PS3 to an external. Sorry. Also, don't worry, I'll get there at some point. I'd expect your level review up either end of November, or mid December.

2010-10-19 16:19:00 Author: Shining Aquas Posts: 353

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Thanks a lot for the review! Honest, constructive criticism, just the way I like it! I originally didn't have the notes, but so many people were complaining that the level was "too hard" for them that I decided to put some clues in. I guess I shouldn't have been as obvious, but I wanted to make sure people could finish the level. I don't think the people playing my level are stupid, but if they are saying my level is too hard, I feel I should make it easier. I didn't think that they might not be the right audience for my level; I just wanted SOMEONE to enjoy it. I suppose the next time I make a puzzler, I'll keep this all in mind. As for the lighting, is your TV too dark? I can see perfectly fine! Although, it is MY level, I know where everything is because I placed it there. Ah, who knows! I won't be updating the level, but I'll definitely keep all of your tips and suggestions In mind when I make another level! Sometimes negative feedback is the most helpful feedback. Btw, I praise you for making use of the whole 10 point scale by using 1 as absolute worst rather than 1-5. *coughgamespotcough*

2010-10-19 20:13:00 Author: crazymario Posts: 657

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Thanks a lot for the review! Honest, constructive criticism, just the way I like it! I originally didn't have the notes, but so many people were complaining that the level was "too hard" for them that I decided to put some clues in. I guess I shouldn't have been as obvious, but I wanted to make sure people could finish the level. I don't think the people playing my level are stupid, but if they are saying my level is too hard, I feel I should make it easier. I didn't think that they might not be the right audience for my level; I just wanted SOMEONE to enjoy it. I suppose the next time I make a puzzler, I'll keep this all in mind. As for the lighting, is your TV too dark? I can see perfectly fine! Although, it is MY level, I know where everything is because I placed it there. Ah, who knows! I won't be updating the level, but I'll definitely keep all of your tips and suggestions In mind when I make another level! Sometimes negative feedback is the most helpful feedback. Btw, I praise you for making use of the whole 10 point scale by using 1 as absolute worst rather than 1-5. *coughgamespotcough* Well, if it makes you feel better I'm willing to try the level again on a different television, I'm playing through a monitor currently so it could be me. However, all the lighting on my monitor has proven very effective in the past, and all the colors at least come out great. I guess it makes a bit more sense that the hints were there for people who couldn't solve the puzzles, but honestly none of them seemed overwhelmingly difficult.

2010-10-20 04:29:00 Author: Shining Aquas Posts: 353

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Thank you. I tried the screenshot thing before. The reason I stopped was not because it was frustrating (it kinda was, but I was okay with that), but because my PS3 has the latest firmware that prevents unknown USB ports from being recognized. Sony's new anti-piracy measures are actually preventing me from uploading screenshots from my PS3 to an external. Sorry. Also, don't worry, I'll get there at some point. I'd expect your level review up either end of November, or mid December. Wow, didn't know PS3 didn't allow unknown USB ports. No need to apologize for the lack of screenshots. xD November or December? Boy, you're indeed one fast reviewer.

2010-10-20 09:11:00 Author: figuer39 Posts: 108

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When I say that, it means it will probably be up by mid December to early January. I'm trying to be optimistic, but I'm definitely aiming for a goal (all reviews done by LBP2 release date)

2010-10-20 10:00:00 Author: Shining Aquas Posts: 353

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Dark Cavern combines the single screen maze formula of Pac-Man with the man-against-robot aspect of Berzerk and adds its own unique twists.It may have been permanently discontinued. It is also possible we weren't able to gather enough information from the website to write a description about it. If you don't mind graphics that won't get Avatar fans wetting their pants for a second time, Dark Moor praises the RPG for great gameplay and for stepping away from the typical structure you've come to expect from the genre.

2010-11-10 11:25:00 Author: kevinchaapel Posts: 3

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Thank you. I tried the screenshot thing before. The reason I stopped was not because it was frustrating (it kinda was, but I was okay with that), but because my PS3 has the latest firmware that prevents unknown USB ports from being recognized. Sony's new anti-piracy measures are actually preventing me from uploading screenshots from my PS3 to an external. Sorry. I upload my screens to flickr from my PS3, in the internet browser. I set up a bookmark to go straight to the upload page.

2010-11-11 02:45:00 Author: DarkDedede Posts: 672

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I upload my screens to flickr from my PS3, in the internet browser. I set up a bookmark to go straight to the upload page. Works like a charm!

2010-11-11 06:04:00 Author: John82wa Posts: 221

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