Archive: 37 posts

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Today I tried out the LBP 2 BETA, and to my dismay, I'm having troubles in several areas: 1- none of the LBP 1 Music and backgrounds work. Strange... 2- I have this BETA, but I am clueless on how to use it. I went through almost all of the tutorials, but I simply do not understand them very well. The goals I wish to accomplish are impossible, and they seem very simple too. There has to be some way for me to learn, of course I want to make complicated things. For example: Have a floating platform without a piston float in midair, stationary (of course I know at least that I should use a gyroscope to start). Make it move in a complex pattern, along with moving the camera to create the feel that gravity is shifting. No idea how to make it stationary, none of the mover objects seem to work unless the object is actually moving. Plus, I can't get a sequence to work, even in a straight line with the camera only moving. The logic doesn't work the way that I thought it did, and I'm clueless. I can't make it move in multiple directions if I can't begin to make it. Also, I want the back wall to rotate along with the camera, again to create a shift in gravity using illusion. The rotator objects don't seem to do anything besides spin the wall around, and it doesn't stay in mid-air, it just falls. I can't see a difference between the two rotator objects so far. Plus, there aren't any degrees of wobble like the wobble bolt. I would have thought it possible to do without wobble bolts. Which brings me to my other confusion. How do you make ANYTHING spin in mid air without wobble bolts and dark matter. I want to make a wall that spins 90 degrees one way do to switches and 180 degrees the other way with other switches. This obviously can't be done easily with wobble bolts, but I simply haven't a clue how to do it. Last thing, is there a way to make the camera rotation spin more fluid and slow, so it isn't so instantaneous and jerky? Thanks, I hope someone can help so I can actually enjoy the BETA while it lasts...

2010-10-16 19:37:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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Hey all, We hope you're all enjoying being on the LBP2 Beta trial! Unfortunately, as you may be aware, there has been an issue with the beta client you've received - you are on v1.00 of the client and not the v1.01 which you were meant to have received. We will obviously be looking in to this and making sure you are on the correct version as soon as we can. This means that many of you may be experiencing issues which have already been reported or fixed in the v1.01 client. You'll also have problems playing community levels published with v1.00 and playing with players using v1.01. So, until you receive the correct build, it is probably best that you do not report bugs. As a general note I'd also like to mention that it is very important you SEARCH the forums before creating any threads in which to discuss bugs. Thanks all! dsgsdfhftjftyikfukfj

2010-10-16 19:43:00 Author: ARD Posts: 4291

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Oh, well, I received 1.0 then. But can anyone help me out with the rest of the post? I really want to enjoy the beta and understand how it works, but Stephen Fry's awesomeness isn't enough to teach me everything I need to know. I have this clear vision of a level I want to make but I need the knowledge. Looking forward to something... P.s> Any word on when North Americans shall receive the 1.1 update?

2010-10-16 20:00:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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I heard the patch would be released later next week, if I'm not mistaking.

2010-10-16 20:19:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Ok thanks... so how in the world do I at least accomplish what I described?

2010-10-16 20:39:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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have you tried putting a material modifier (whatever its called) attached to your spinning platform to reduce the effects of gravity on it? I dont know that this would work... i am very much in the same boat as you, but its what i would try next.

2010-10-16 20:45:00 Author: Deftmute Posts: 730

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Unfortunately, nothing was learned from the complaints that the tutorials in the first game were far too vague. I'm finding the same thing with these new tutorials. More tools to do more with... and less explanation. They simply don't go over all the basics well enough and leave out some setting explanations completely. There's going to be a huge learning curve in this new game... especially for those of us who are not logic savvy.

2010-10-16 20:54:00 Author: Rustbukkit Posts: 1737

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I honestly don't know how to use the actual tools. How I wish online create was enabled. What I'm trying to do is make a platform float statically, but start moving on a predetermined path once the players step on it. Ie- I need a way to move it right for this amount of distance, then up for this distance, and so on. Behind this platform, I will put a wall, which I want to rotate in midair according to the direction of the moving platform, without the need of a wobble bolt. Moving the camera in the same way would be good as well. 2nd objective: have a room be able to rotate 90 degrees to the right, 90 degrees to the left, 180 degrees to the right and left, with one button corresponding to each direction. In LBP 1 I'd have to use multiple wobble bolts, but I've heard that in LBP 2 it is easier. How is this so when the new rotating objects don't give you the ability to rotate with a certain number of degrees... I'm confused. Those are just a couple of the large number of puzzles I'm putting up with in the BETA> I don't want this to be a waste, I want to know exactly how to do everything that I'd like... and I don't think that what I'd like is complicated by LBP 2 standards if someone could help. EDIT: Basically, if I can at least begin to make my level idea a reality, and if someone could teach properly how to use the new settings and switches, that would be wonderful.

2010-10-16 21:00:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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i was like, "oh that all sounds simple enough....bwhuh!?" now all i want to know is what does a joystick rotator do exactly? lol ok thats not all but its a start. sounds like a sequencer with timers set to rotators/movers might be the key for you. i have had a bit of success with timers and movers. like move right 3 seconds, queue rotation, move some more etc.

2010-10-16 21:02:00 Author: Deftmute Posts: 730

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That's what I thought, but I don't really know how to go about making the device... I'd need a diagram/specific explanation. XD Oh how I wish online create was enabled.

2010-10-16 21:16:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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Use the anti-gravity tweaker - it will make things stay in midair. They will still move when bashed into though. To prevent errors in movement, consider using a follower and setting your object to follow a red tag. Now make 4 red tags. Now make a sequencer with 4 batteries on it that loops round. Connect each battery to a tag. Now your object will follow each tag in sequence and follow whatever pattern you make. Use a gyroscope to stop the platform wobbling. As for rotating the background, you will want to rotate about a certain point to make it look realistic. Not entirely sure how to do this...

2010-10-16 21:23:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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Unfortunately, nothing was learned from the complaints that the tutorials in the first game were far too vague. I'm finding the same thing with these new tutorials. More tools to do more with... and less explanation. They simply don't go over all the basics well enough and leave out some setting explanations completely. There's going to be a huge learning curve in this new game... especially for those of us who are not logic savvy. I am bemused that people find the tutorials so unhelpful and so MM should be. I mean, here's the explanation for the anti-gravity tweaker - for me this explains it perfectly and the OP should know how to make objects float in midair if he has seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MygRp6wKKtI We must ask ourselves why there is a problem in communication. I think the issue is that Stephen Fry makes too much effort making little jokes and making it "fun" that the explanation he gives gets lost. Maybe MM should make some longer tutorials explaining everything in detail and how to make specific things. MM should also have a system better than the current "templates" system (which not even the noob creators ever used).

2010-10-16 21:34:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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Use the anti-gravity tweaker - it will make things stay in midair. They will still move when bashed into though. To prevent errors in movement, consider using a follower and setting your object to follow a red tag. Now make 4 red tags. Now make a sequencer with 4 batteries on it that loops round. Connect each battery to a tag. Now your object will follow each tag in sequence and follow whatever pattern you make. Use a gyroscope to stop the platform wobbling. As for rotating the background, you will want to rotate about a certain point to make it look realistic. Not entirely sure how to do this... Wish I could see this done in a video, but I think I have a rough idea about what you are saying. Although, how would I make it so the platform is stationary until the player is on it, thus starting the sequence? Also, obviously the platform will have to reset if the player falls off or dies, how would I achieve that?. Is there a way to synchronize camera movements so they turn as if gravity is changing? And... does anyone know how I would make the back wall rotate a certain number of degrees without wobble bolts? The rotators don't have degree settings... And then comes the final objective, to make a room be able to rotate certain directions/degrees with corresponding one shot switches...including a reset one shot switch.

2010-10-16 22:02:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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I honestly don't know how to use the actual tools. How I wish online create was enabled. What I'm trying to do is make a platform float statically, but start moving on a predetermined path once the players step on it. Ie- I need a way to move it right for this amount of distance, then up for this distance, and so on. Behind this platform, I will put a wall, which I want to rotate in midair according to the direction of the moving platform, without the need of a wobble bolt. Moving the camera in the same way would be good as well. 2nd objective: have a room be able to rotate 90 degrees to the right, 90 degrees to the left, 180 degrees to the right and left, with one button corresponding to each direction. In LBP 1 I'd have to use multiple wobble bolts, but I've heard that in LBP 2 it is easier. How is this so when the new rotating objects don't give you the ability to rotate with a certain number of degrees... I'm confused. Those are just a couple of the large number of puzzles I'm putting up with in the BETA> I don't want this to be a waste, I want to know exactly how to do everything that I'd like... and I don't think that what I'd like is complicated by LBP 2 standards if someone could help. EDIT: Basically, if I can at least begin to make my level idea a reality, and if someone could teach properly how to use the new settings and switches, that would be wonderful. OK I will explain in more detail and with pictures as with my first response I did not see this post. Bear in mind that I do not has teh betaz so part of my information could be inaccurate. First idea moves an object in a square (or whatever shape you choose). Tweak the follower to choose the speed of movement, tweak the sequencer to choose the amount of time it spends at each point. http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/Aspherex/moveinasquare.jpg Edit: More info. Follower is set to follow green tag. Player sensor (sorry wrong icon I couldn't find new icon) activates when player steps on. Sequencer is set to directional so that it moves to the right when player activates sensor, and moves back to the left when player falls off. (I think this is possible, again I do not have the beta so forgive me if I get a couple of things wrong). Second idea rotates an object to 4 different directions. Note that a) I am not sure exactly how the gyro operates (i.e. does it rotate around COM or around where gyro is placed?) and b) you don't have to use a sequencer for this you could use buttons or w/e. http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/Aspherex/rotation.jpg To synchronise camera movements just put cameras on the object & activate them with the same batteries on the sequencer.

2010-10-16 22:08:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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But use logic sequencer (one with red clocks), not music sequencer as in this image

2010-10-16 22:25:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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But use logic sequencer (one with red clocks), not music sequencer as in this image Oh OK I didn't know they were different I thought you could place different objects on music sequencer anyway?

2010-10-16 22:38:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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Yes, but music sequencer use Tempo as speed and have less input options fact, you can use either one but logic sequencer is optimized for logic.

2010-10-16 23:12:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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the first objective seems solved . Although, those four gyrators might not be enough. Basically, I should have explained more in detail. Let's have 4 switches, this might change later One is a 90 degree clockwise switch: By default, when pressed it will rotate the room 90 degrees counterclockwise, permanently until pressed again. On the second press, it will go 90 degrees counterclockwise, back to it's original position. 180 degree counterclockwise switch: By default, it rotates counterclockwise 180 degrees, same effects as the other switch. One is an inverse direction switch: Aptly named, it will reverse the direction of rotation for the 180/90 degree switches. Counterclockwise to clockwise and vice-versa. The last switch at the moment (I might add more onto the idea), is a Reset switch, except this switch is not player activated. If the player dies, the room and the switches must be reset to their original settings (in most cases). Note: The rotations must not be instant, I think they must take about 5 seconds. Also, from what I understand, I must use the gravity tweaker in order to make it float in midair, but the gyroscopes to rotate it? Anyway, thanks for the help, I hope this last description will be helpful in figuring out how to go about things. EDIT: Oh and to be specific, the thing I tried earlier was: Make a timer activate a toggle switch via OR Gate (input 1 of 2), which in turn activates timer 2, which is shorter in duration than the first timer (in order to simulate an earlier turn), and make that be the 2nd OR Gate input which I THOUGHT would toggle the toggle switch again to deactivate it. This didn't work at all to my surprise, so I'm not exactly sure what I did incorrectly. Anyway, looking forward to more responses, and tomorrow I shall try pushing forward... BTW: How long is this BETA supposed to last?

2010-10-16 23:34:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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another option instead of timers. you could use a "look at tag" rotator on your background that rotates to face an emitted tag, maybe... idk really.

2010-10-16 23:53:00 Author: Deftmute Posts: 730

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emitted tag? you can turn off and on tags with wires, so there no need for emitting them and destroy just to send signal. Besides gyros seems better for this job and you can all place it one microchip Follower rotator is good if you want precise rotation to the target

2010-10-16 23:56:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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hey cut me some slack, ive spent a total of 1.5 hours in the beta so far... and it turns out i have the wrong version

2010-10-16 23:59:00 Author: Deftmute Posts: 730

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the first objective seems solved . Although, those four gyrators might not be enough. Basically, I should have explained more in detail. Let's have 4 switches, this might change later One is a 90 degree clockwise switch: By default, when pressed it will rotate the room 90 degrees counterclockwise, permanently until pressed again. On the second press, it will go 90 degrees counterclockwise, back to it's original position. 180 degree counterclockwise switch: By default, it rotates counterclockwise 180 degrees, same effects as the other switch. One is an inverse direction switch: Aptly named, it will reverse the direction of rotation for the 180/90 degree switches. Counterclockwise to clockwise and vice-versa. The last switch at the moment (I might add more onto the idea), is a Reset switch, except this switch is not player activated. If the player dies, the room and the switches must be reset to their original settings (in most cases). Note: The rotations must not be instant, I think they must take about 5 seconds. Also, from what I understand, I must use the gravity tweaker in order to make it float in midair, but the gyroscopes to rotate it? Anyway, thanks for the help, I hope this last description will be helpful in figuring out how to go about things. EDIT: Oh and to be specific, the thing I tried earlier was: Make a timer activate a toggle switch via OR Gate (input 1 of 2), which in turn activates timer 2, which is shorter in duration than the first timer (in order to simulate an earlier turn), and make that be the 2nd OR Gate input which I THOUGHT would toggle the toggle switch again to deactivate it. This didn't work at all to my surprise, so I'm not exactly sure what I did incorrectly. Anyway, looking forward to more responses, and tomorrow I shall try pushing forward... BTW: How long is this BETA supposed to last? Hmm from your first post it seemed that you wanted to create the effect of shifting gravity by rotating the level and the camera? Could you be more explicit in this? Because then you would need to take the position of the player into account in order to rotate the background about that point. To clarify - rotating the background around its centre of mass would not produce the desired effect. Think what would happen if sackboy were a long way away from the centre of mass of the background - rather than looking like sackboy himself is turning on his platform with the gravity, half of the level would zoom round past sackboy's back and he'd end up in a completely different part.

2010-10-17 00:00:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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emitted tag? you can turn off and on tags with wires, so there no need for emitting them and destroy just to send signal. Besides gyros seems better for this job and you can all place it one microchip Follower rotator is good if you want precise rotation to the target Shadowriver just so I can be clear in my constructions - Where is the rotation centre for gyroscopes/rotators/follower rotators? Is it at the centre of mass of the object, or at the location of the microchip it is on, or something else? Does it vary? Can it be adjusted?

2010-10-17 00:01:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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Hm the center of mass is a bit of a problem. It would not be a big section though, probably be more in outer space with a thin layer at the back or layers that look the same, with skinny pieces of wall...probably doesn't fix the problem but we can all experiment right? (Except me, I have no clue what I'm doing XD). Anyway, I hope we can figure out a good way to go about the rotation. I was more asking about the entire logic of the switches AND the rotations themselves though...

2010-10-17 00:09:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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So with all the tools MM has thought of they never once thought about a path tool?

2010-10-17 03:53:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Okay the big question is how am I going to make that rotating room with the multiple switches...

2010-10-17 12:36:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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Shadowriver just so I can be clear in my constructions - Where is the rotation centre for gyroscopes/rotators/follower rotators? Is it at the centre of mass of the object, or at the location of the microchip it is on, or something else? Does it vary? Can it be adjusted? Yes (but i not sure about gyros but most likely yes) and with microchip as everything it has effect on postion of microchip. So if you want effect on center you need to use microchip for everything, if you don't have center to place anything you will need invisible hologram glued to the object to make one

2010-10-17 13:58:00 Author: Shadowriver Posts: 3991

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Ok, one problem I'm having. I just want a simple wall to move out, obstructing the exit to a room, activated by the "new version" of the proximity switch. When I place the in out mover, there is an X symbol on it, and I can't attach any wires or tweak it. In Stephen Fry's tutorial, it has an arrow on it. What am I doing incorrectly?

2010-10-17 16:42:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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the in out movers dont work in our current build.

2010-10-17 19:56:00 Author: Deftmute Posts: 730

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Ok, one problem I'm having. I just want a simple wall to move out, obstructing the exit to a room, activated by the "new version" of the proximity switch. When I place the in out mover, there is an X symbol on it, and I can't attach any wires or tweak it. In Stephen Fry's tutorial, it has an arrow on it. What am I doing incorrectly? Wait for verison 1.01 before using the in/out mover. I will work on your rotating wall problem based upon what Shadowriver has told me (if he is correct) and reply to this thread (probably tomorrow).

2010-10-17 22:54:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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Thank you so much. Make sure you read the latest description of it by the way. If it makes anything easier maybe you could add me on PSN as well.

2010-10-18 01:41:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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Here's my solution (again remember that I don't have the beta, and this being more complex I cannot test it and so there may be bugs I have missed) It works around the "magic joystick" which makes an object turn in a given direction based on 2 analogue inputs. It manipulates the output of the timer to generate a signal which translates to a rotation. One caveat - the rotation is not uniform speed. It will barely be noticable, but due to the way it is calculated there will be a discrepancy. Here's a diagram to illustrate the use of the magic joystick: http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/Aspherex/magic_joystick.jpg The diagram on the left shows how a combination of 2 analogue inputs is projected onto the circle to make a single angle. Within the circle represents all the positions you could put your analogue stick (slightly to the right, fully up and left etc.) The diagram on the right shows the signals sent to the magic joystick from the 90-degree rotator (blue) and the 180-degree rotator (green). Note that because the signal moves at a constant velocity along the line, this translates to a faster movement along the endpoints along the arc (changing angle). http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/Aspherex/90degreeturn.jpg This diagram shows the 90-degree rotator. When the button is pressed, the timer (set to directional input) moves to the right and causes a signal to be sent to the magic joystick, which rotates from vertical to 90 degrees clockwise. When the button is pressed again, the timer returns to the left and the magic joystick rotates back 90 degrees anticlockwise. The switch should change it so it rotates first anticlockwise. Potential problems: - I am not sure if the input sent to the on/off input of the magic joystick works correctly (top input) - if this fails, simply leave it on permanently to test - I am not sure if the combiner inputs left open count as any particular input - you may have to attach a battery set to 0%/off to them - Rotator might be at the wrong angle, just rotate it. - Resetting the system via the timer will require more logic to reset - maybe just a gyroscope that is set to turn on when the reset is pressed, however. In this case attach the output of the reset switch to the orientation-resetting gyro as well as the reset switch of the timer, as well as replacing the toggle switch with a resettable switch. - Test this system on an individual object before using it in conjunciton with anything else. http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff363/Aspherex/180degreeturn.jpg This diagram shows the 180-degree rotator, and the same caveats apply. This one is a little more complicated so it may have a load of bugs in that I haven't foreseen. Test it and see how it works

2010-10-18 18:20:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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Why not just use gyroscopes pointing to the directions you want? There's an easy way to making the room turn an any point you want: whip out a piece of Hologram, place a bolt on it, place it wherever you want the room to revolve around, make both invisible, and lastly, attach a gravity tweaker on the Hologram witrh every option cranked to the max. Then use a selector system to activate the gyroscopes. That's the easy version.

2010-10-18 19:01:00 Author: Unknown User

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The easy version might just work. Only one problem; I don't want the rotation to be instantaneous. It's better if I can make it rotate smoothly, but since this is the BETA, I don't mind making a few small compromises, such as making a small delay instead of a slow rotation. Speaking of instantaneous rotation, is there a way to make game camera rotations from 90 degree angles less instant as well? EDIT: Hm... a selector system? That's the tool I haven't figured out at all. How would I apply it in this case? Like I said before, two types switches. One is 90 degrees, the other is 180. They are toggle buttons. BUT: I must be able to combine rotations together. IE: if I start at 0 degrees, hit a red 90 degree switch twice (now at 180 degrees), and then hit a 180 degree switch, it should rotate the room so you are back where you came. Likewise, if you hit the 90 degree switch, then a 180 switch, you should be at 270. THEN, I must have a couple reset switches, just in case sackboy dies, or if the player gets stuck. This will make the room rotate back to its original 0 degree position.

2010-10-18 20:46:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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Why not just use gyroscopes pointing to the directions you want? There's an easy way to making the room turn an any point you want: whip out a piece of Hologram, place a bolt on it, place it wherever you want the room to revolve around, make both invisible, and lastly, attach a gravity tweaker on the Hologram witrh every option cranked to the max. Then use a selector system to activate the gyroscopes. That's the easy version. I suggested this on the previous page, unfortunately this technique will not provide the smooth 5 seconds of rotation that synchronizer wanted.

2010-10-18 23:03:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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The easy version might just work. Only one problem; I don't want the rotation to be instantaneous. It's better if I can make it rotate smoothly, but since this is the BETA, I don't mind making a few small compromises, such as making a small delay instead of a slow rotation. Speaking of instantaneous rotation, is there a way to make game camera rotations from 90 degree angles less instant as well? EDIT: Hm... a selector system? That's the tool I haven't figured out at all. How would I apply it in this case? Like I said before, two types switches. One is 90 degrees, the other is 180. They are toggle buttons. BUT: I must be able to combine rotations together. IE: if I start at 0 degrees, hit a red 90 degree switch twice (now at 180 degrees), and then hit a 180 degree switch, it should rotate the room so you are back where you came. Likewise, if you hit the 90 degree switch, then a 180 switch, you should be at 270. THEN, I must have a couple reset switches, just in case sackboy dies, or if the player gets stuck. This will make the room rotate back to its original 0 degree position. Have you tried my magic joystick suggestions? Otherwise use the gyroscope solution I posted on the previous page. Couple it with toggle switches and AND gates to activate the correct gyros.

2010-10-18 23:05:00 Author: thor Posts: 388

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I have tried the gyroscope possibility, but there's a problem. Since I wanted the entire level to be able to move, I didn't attach any light or dark matter. Instead, I attached a gravity object tweaker, assuming that it would make the level float without problems. Of course I was mistaken. Upon unpausing, the test stage tilts slightly to the right and then plummets down to the ground in slow motion. The rotation mechanism works fine, it's just the fact that the entire level falls down. Attaching it to matter with bolts prevents the gyroscope mechanism from working. I've tried practically everything to keep the level stable, but haven't found any solution. I find this quite ridiculous. Can anyone offer some suggestions?

2010-10-19 01:00:00 Author: synchronizer Posts: 287

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