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PLEASE READ MM!! LBP2 not backwards compatible!!
Archive: 99 posts
| LBP2 is NOT backwards compatible with professional levels!! I am in NA so not in beta, but I have friends that are. After the NDA was lifted, some fellow players from the pro community chimed in on things they noticed. 1. Sackboy no longer fits in a 2 small grid space under electric ceiling. 2. Triple super jumps (a jump measurement range) no longer work, which is bouncing of an edge for extra high jump. 3. Inverted super jumps are broken, which is an extra high jump from an inside corner. Those are the things they pointed out. This will destroy around 75% or more of the levels in the expert community!!!! I almost had tears in my eyes when I found this out. One friend in particular, most of his levels are now unplayable/broke, and he is a go to source of extreme platforming. This is a serious issue we talked about n worry months in advance, and were prepared to protest if LBP2 was not backwards compatible with pro community. The entire legacy that has been built upon a community of players playing at extreme skill levels would be gone!! All those levels that require perfected play control and sometime over 4 hours a level to clear. All that work gone!! Most pro players only play in the expert community. It's the only thing we play and have played in past 2 years or how ever long since we were introduced. If it's gone a decent sized portion of the community will be left 'homeless' for lack of a better word. Creating extreme plats for pros and playing pro is a passion of mine and the players that do. We work hard and train on a daily basis to reach these levels of skill. I have even been asked to mentor players wanting to get into playing pro from time to time, but it would all be for nothing. Myself and other have to get this to the attention of MM. Does anyone know how? Sure, beta testers can report this as bug, but I have feeling it would go ignored at this close to launch. And a lot of pro players are not in beta, so how would we speak to MM? This is an urgent PANIC situation. NOTE: If you do not play in the pro community please do not respond saying those things being removed are no big deal. If you're a casual or advanced player then you probably wont realize the scale/magnitude of this. | 2010-09-20 20:17:00 Author: Hana_Kami  Posts: 393 |
Please explain what you mean by the 'Pro Community' | 2010-09-20 20:22:00 Author: Plasmavore  Posts: 1913 |
Swap "pro" for "elite", and you'll get the idea - no need to be picky on semantics here, you know what she means  | 2010-09-20 20:30:00 Author: rtm223  Posts: 6497 |
| I believe she means the "extreme platformer" players. thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=28050-Super-Jump-worried!) about broken super jumps - sort of explains what kind of player we're talking about. It gets a little heated in there. I know there are many levels designed for these kinds of players out there. Shame if they don't work anymore. Just because I don't particularly like playing them doesn't mean they shouldn't work in 2. Good luck guys. | 2010-09-20 20:30:00 Author: Morgana25  Posts: 5983 |
| Ohh.. I see what you mean. I don't personally play these levels. (I didn't even know they existed, to be honest )But I hope you manage to find some way to get around this! :S | 2010-09-20 20:39:00 Author: Plasmavore Posts: 1913 |
| What? There's a "pro community?" Well, you can always stick to LBP1 like how most Smash Bros players stick to Melee instead of Brawl. =P | 2010-09-20 20:41:00 Author: gevurah22  Posts: 1476 |
| 1. Sackboy no longer fits in a 2 small grid space under electric ceiling. 2. Triple super jumps (a jump measurement range) no longer work, which is bouncing of an edge for extra high jump. 3. Inverted super jumps are broken, which is an extra high jump from an inside corner. Those are the things they pointed out. This will destroy around 75% or more of the levels in the expert community!!!! 1. Oh. The Creators can modify their levels if MM doesn't fix it then. 2. and 3. Lolwhat? Unless I am mistaken, I have never played a level with either of these being used. Who is the expert community? My upcoming level doesn't use any of the above, and most, or all of comphermc's levels use none of the above either (to what I have seen). | 2010-09-20 20:45:00 Author: Fishrock123  Posts: 1578 |
| Hello & OMG. I was the "friend" that reported this. more than half of my levels arent backwards compatible. i know becAuse im good at lbp. creating or playing. my levels are well liked by the pro community and i know about 20 pro players on my friend list WILL NOT BE PLEASED!!! MM LISTEN TO US!!! no one on lbp has dedicated the amount of time and energy spent (usually in frustration) as the experts. we strive to play and complete hard levels. we dont like easy levels! im not sure i can say much more without offending MM. but they need to take note here! please keep our level physics nominal. the slightest change would mess them up. movement physics too. ive been playing the beta and testing the "oh so important" backwards compatibilty and no, it isnt. thankyou for posting this thread. SORT IT!!!! | 2010-09-20 20:48:00 Author: Festerd_Jester  Posts: 53 |
| Im angry and im willing to quit LBP all together and use my money else were if MM won't fix this. This defines the expert coommunity. Doing things others can't normally with ease, fitting in tight spaces, super jumps, corner jumps, bounce jumps, and more would just go to waste. So long to the expert community is what the message said is hiding. We can't have this heppen. Little big planet must have some fun for elite players. It cant just be about the adventure/creativity people. A friend of mine says this is the 9/11 of the expert community. I 100% agree. Im so nervouse and scared of losing all iv worked on just for it to be useless in lbp2, and ill lose all hope in finding a challengeing level. i dont want a level were challenge is defined by points, picturese on a every level, or even beating a long long level made to make u die cheaply (like most fake creators do on purpose). All i want, is things to be the same with the physics in lbp2. That's all i ask mm. and if this doesnt happen, ill just look back once at my levels, then walk away. I'll spend my money else were and toss out my ideas in little big planet. All ill remember is this, We lost the battle, not to the people who hate/dont preffer playing hard levels.... but to the ones who could have saved a very important side in games. The Elite players. Im actualy panicing that this fear will come true. The more i think about it the worse it gets. And those who say Its not a big deal, try long levels with 1 life, etc, they are just saying ha ha sucks to be you i get to keep my ways for sure. This is my mind on this matter. And 99% of the time i state my mind... i find it dreadfully true. I wish this would be fixed. MM, please save us elites. | 2010-09-20 20:57:00 Author: XxWormholexX  Posts: 101 |
| The Elite players. As if there won't be other challenging things in LBP2..... or you could continue using LBP1.. Gah. Please. stop the entire "elite players" thing before I go mad.... :colossus: | 2010-09-20 21:01:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578 |
| A friend of mine says this is the 9/11 of the expert community. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Hyperbole at its finest. | 2010-09-20 21:01:00 Author: gevurah22 Posts: 1476 |
| . It cant just be about the adventure/creativity people. Well it kinda is, most people bought LBP to create games/levels :/ | 2010-09-20 21:01:00 Author: Alec  Posts: 3871 |
| Ok. lets see... experts.... nope cant. people hate it. Pro... nope... people hate that cause of hot lol.... Hmmm.... hard level players? not sure... maybe no... WHat else is there to call us? A clan? cause we aint. we are a section of the community like you are. Come up with a name for us then. | 2010-09-20 21:08:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| I just read about 4 new messages in the thread. You people are what bash the experrt community, laugh in our faces, and dont give a **** about us. You play semantics and hope we just die away so creative levels can be made. Hey, i agree that there should be more creative levels and less bomb survivals and shark survivals and waht not, but stop bashing US. ITS ALL YOU DO. Hey these people like hard leves lets bash them. hey i cant win ima rate 1 star n say it sucks so much. Hey these levels have no creativity lets make sure they are banned or removed somehow. I CANT STAND THIS STUFF! JUST STOP BEING BIASED AND PLACE YOURSELF IN OUR SHOES! it's not the point you are making, it's the way you are making it. i'd put you at between 10 - 12. i'm not saying that to annoy... that's just the way you are coming across. calm down and contact MM (as you are meant to in a BETA) | 2010-09-20 21:08:00 Author: GribbleGrunger  Posts: 3910 |
| OK guys, lets kill the fighting. Now. Out of curiosity, if the LBP1 expert / elite levels don't port properly, why would this kill the expert community? Obviously it's horrible for you to think these things won't work, as it is horrible for everyone else. But you will still be able t make new expert levels in LBP2, right? So it will be possible to move onwards and upwards? Not that you should have to, and the point remains that this stuff shouldn't have been changed, but what's the worst that could happen? Plus, to those who are in the beta, put together some fundamental and simple tests that demo the differences between the two, so it can be seen without someone needing to have a high skill level to understand, and submit bug reports. It'll work better than ranting on the forums, I assure you. As for the naming thing, I don't see what's wrong with elite?? Not that it's relevant to the thread, as per my original post - we do all know what is meant by this, regardless of what word is used. | 2010-09-20 21:10:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| i'd like to check some of these hardcore levels out. could some of the experts perhaps offer some level names and creators... or better still, are there any video on youtube? | 2010-09-20 21:13:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| I dont have the beta. Wish i did but i dont. and i wouldnt wanna be stuck with lbp1 whenever i play it. i want to use new items, and stuff. My friend festerd jester had the beta. he played it a lot. he knows the differences. its big... Oh yea for the record, even if you didnt wanna be rude posting what you tthink my age would be (although i could understand but i cant just do a light talk and expect myself to be calm). Wrong age range | 2010-09-20 21:15:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| As for the naming thing, I don't see what's wrong with elite?? Not that it's relevant to the thread, as per my original post - we do all know what is meant by this, regardless of what word is used. Because. Calling a group elite or something just seems ego padding. Imo. Maybe something like: Thesaurus alert: Adept. Adept players just sounds better, and describes better, imo. | 2010-09-20 21:17:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578 |
| Also, in my humble opinion.... nobody's going to care about LBP1 levels anyway. Bring them over if you want, but aside from a few classics I doubt I'll ever play old levels again. There's too much new stuff to enjoy. | 2010-09-20 21:18:00 Author: Nuclearfish  Posts: 927 |
| Well whatever... I don't think it's actually relevant to the thread (although "pro" does wind me up lol). Keep it on topic people, and if you have no intention of playing nicely with the <insert description of preference> community, go find a different thread to post in. | 2010-09-20 21:19:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| Well i can list names of hard level makers. Sorry if i spell wrong. also check our hearted. XxWormholexX willtang134 Festerd_Jester hotNstilett0s xSURAx TTTNovember (some numbers after. his hard level is Crystal Palace) Yuikiki Flyojumper (He has 1 very hard level) Keg1Keg2Keg3 Riku04 Many more but check the hearted to find them all. | 2010-09-20 21:20:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| I dont have the beta. Wish i did but i dont. and i wouldnt wanna be stuck with lbp1 whenever i play it. i want to use new items, and stuff. My friend festerd jester had the beta. he played it a lot. he knows the differences. its big... Oh yea for the record, even if you didnt wanna be rude posting what you tthink my age would be (although i could understand but i cant just do a light talk and expect myself to be calm). Wrong age range yeah, fair enough, i really didn't want to offend you. it's just so AGGRESSIVE and this is little big planet, a cute and cuddly game. i think you and your fellow grinders are a valid and refreshing take on the community and i also think you have a valid point. LBP has 2.5 million levels and i doubt you are in the majority, so it's easy to understand why people (including myself) was lost at first. i'm actually finding this very intriguing and hope you can sort it out with MM. if you can't though, just bite the bullet and make even harder levels for LBP2! LBP1 gave us SO much | 2010-09-20 21:21:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| Thanks. Means a lot cliffbo. I'm not sure if MM will liston honestly. I don't know how to contact them without using the report a bug links. | 2010-09-20 21:26:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| NOTE TO EVERYONE: I don't need to say this but I will. Expert, pro, or whatever word you want to use is in every game out there. It is that part of a playerbase that consists of the highest skill level. It DOES NOT mean, "I'm super good and look down upon others. I'm so superior." Most pros, with few exceptions, are honorable and dont have that kind of attitude. I respect all parts of the community, like creators out there that are waay better than me. It means we 'play' at extremes. Common comments on a pro level are 'impossible!' or 'broken level' or 'you guys use hacks or cheats' etc type comments. So anyone that has posted in this thread saying 'expert crap' or 'clan' is mistaken. Why hate like that on people that have done nothing to you? So because you don't play there that makes it crap? I would never go and call casual levels or advanced levels crap, because there are levels of varying difficulty for all player types, which includes expert difficulty. @plasmavore: The pro community is a large community of players that are highly skilled to an extreme. It takes months to years of continuous practice to reach a level of 'play control' required for almost perfect precision in every little move you make. It's that part of the community of those players and levels that make up the expert portion of the community. @Fishrock123: See above reply. It only refers to the core of LBP gameplay and the skill in your play control (a common platforming term), and not creating. Also when Festerd says no one has put in as much effort as experts, he is only referring to players, not creating. Well I mean expert in general there are expert creators, but this is about the players that play levels in those extremes. @poorjack: Lol, yes there is. Look up the definition. Those are real words and exist in every video game (most), sports, and other things. RTM is an expert at logic for example, which I am not an expert at logic. Also read NOTE to everyone at start of this post please. | 2010-09-20 21:27:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| erm... just so you know...search up "elite" in the dictionary and i think you'll find that it means "like the top player in a football team" we dont use the bronze age definition of being better socially. so all you people who think you know what your correcting, at least search it up first because now i am correcting you. | 2010-09-20 21:30:00 Author: Festerd_Jester Posts: 53 |
| Thanks. Means a lot cliffbo. I'm not sure if MM will liston honestly. I don't know how to contact them without using the report a bug links. no problem. i searched youtube for the names you posted but came up with nothing... lol. this is like finding an unknown tribe in the Amazon. just talk to MM...try MM official site, i think there is an E-mail address there and get some other grinder friends to write also | 2010-09-20 21:30:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| Ohhh youtube. nope. dont know any vids. i though u ment levels. i do have a video though.... its a teaching on super jumps, reverse jumps, and bounce jumps. Allthough my bounce jumps have finaly been prefected since that upload date. Search up on you tube, exactly this (and its the 3rd to last video on the list) LBP- Super Please leave a comment. | 2010-09-20 21:33:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| is this it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmza21W-GAM anyway, best of luck, i've got to shoot, food followed by This is England is calling | 2010-09-20 21:37:00 Author: GribbleGrunger Posts: 3910 |
| Just have to look towards the future I guess. It would suck to have a body of work rendered useless, but you cant have progress without change. Also, Im sure the possiblities of adept/elite/pro/smudgly levels in LBP2 will surpass anything in LBP, so after you guys and girls all start digging into it and really making those unnamable levels you wont even look back at those in lbp, the loss will be forgotten in short time. Of course maybe Mm would do something. They have expressed a strong desire to retain works from lbp. | 2010-09-20 21:43:00 Author: EinRobot  Posts: 739 |
| @cliffbo and anyone curious: I will list exact names for sources: (NOTE: A lot of pro levels are visually less attractive looking than your average level. But this is about difficulty, not looks. Keep that in mind please)(Check out all of willtang's profiles below for good assortment) (xSURAx) try her green, red, and blue levels (Hana_Kami) Hana Kami Residence (h0tNstilettos) An Angel's Secret Skiulls All Down Hill From Here Radical Dreamers (hard version) and more (yuikiki) yuikiki's Residence (this one is pretty easy to pro players, but incredibly hard to average and still on the easier end of expert play) (willtang1134) willtang1134's Elite level his numbered Elite Stages he also has 4 accounts to hold all his levels>> (willtang3) (Will_tang) (Will-tron) (XxWormholexX) try Wormhole's Elite level, or the 3p collab between Worm, myself and will as titled (roui-1) any of his Very Hard in title levels (mushroomman77) his elite ones which are located on opposite side of moon from average ones, hard to miss (thug4life045) Mysterious Garden (also includes infinite cp version) (Festerd_Jester) most of his | 2010-09-20 21:47:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| Note that just because your "experts" in one type of gameplay, doesn't man your experts at all types of gameplay. | 2010-09-20 21:57:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578 |
| The main issue should be the lack of true backwards compatibility. MM said it will be, but testing is showing otherwise. That's false advertising. Hopefully they're still working on it. There will be a ton of angry creators once they discover their levels are broken. | 2010-09-20 22:25:00 Author: DrunkenFist_Lee  Posts: 172 |
| What? There's a "pro community?" Well, you can always stick to LBP1 like how most Smash Bros players stick to Melee instead of Brawl. =P LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Hyperbole at its finest. With all due respect Gevurah, just because you're "known," doesn't mean you can go around mocking whoever you want, and woud like to ask you to stop posting here unless you have a valid point you'd like to share about the situation. Even rtm said it: Keep it on topic people, and if you have no intention of playing nicely with the community, go find a different thread to post in As if there won't be other challenging things in LBP2..... or you could continue using LBP1.. Gah. Please. stop the entire "elite players" thing before I go mad.... :colossus: So its ok to use the terms "elite Creators" but not "elite players'? I know many level creators, costume creators, decorators, etc. that are known as elite, and I don't care, its fine, why should I care what they're called If i know it has some thruth to it. Why should it be different and why should you care what elite 'players' (as in can play with more skill, not necessarily means they can create or are better on other areas) call themselves anyways? Because. Calling a group elite or something just seems ego padding. Imo. Maybe something like: Thesaurus alert: Adept. Adept players just sounds better, and describes better, imo. Same thing, doesn't matter what they're called, the meaning is basically the same or used in the same basis. 1. Oh. The Creators can modify their levels if MM doesn't fix it then. 2. and 3. Lolwhat? Unless I am mistaken, I have never played a level with either of these being used. Who is the expert community? My upcoming level doesn't use any of the above, and most, or all of comphermc's levels use none of the above either (to what I have seen). With all due respect, Cpmphermc's levels are far from difficult/ challenging, and if you think those are difficult at all, then you indeed have no idea about the elite community and would have little to no opinion in the matter tbh, considering you know little to nothing about it. erm... just so you know...search up "elite" in the dictionary and i think you'll find that it means "like the top player in a football team" we dont use the bronze age definition of being better socially. so all you people who think you know what your correcting, at least search it up first because now i am correcting you. Same as I said a few quotes up. Look, its not used to say "Oh I'm elite and waaay better than anyone." Its used as a general term to express the preferance to elite levels or extremely difficult levels. If you feel this is demeening to you then you are just causing it yourself as I highly doubt anyone from the Elite community thinks that way. And for Kana and other elite player here: Come on guys, now you guys are shaming the Elite player's name too. :/ You're implaying that you 'need' glitch juping knowledge only to be considered 'elite' and any/ all elite levels MUST have it, when that is a complete and utter lie. I've played and seen so many great elite levels that use no glitches at all, does that make it non-elite after all then? No. Elite levels and creators don't need these glitches ad depend too much upon it and I for one am rather glad they're geting rid of it. There are soo many ways to make elite levels, but people get too stuck on just making many 'super jump' only areas that now they see it as a must, when it really isn't. Remember people, elite players aren't those who can use skill-glitches, but those that can can use skills meant to be, to pass through the difficult levels. I would go as far to say that if you NEED this to be called elite, then I wouldn't consider you elite at all, wether is elite level creator or elite level player. I'm pretty sure there are many elites out there who will do just fine without the jump glitches, so don't worry about what can't be done, and worry at what you can do. | 2010-09-20 22:32:00 Author: Silverleon  Posts: 6707 |
| Fishrock reminds me of me except on the other side and when i 1st had the game. hmm..... will the creative community fall in 2 years? lets see..... IF it does then i wont bother any sadness. You have no idea what our thougts. And if we aren't experts in creativity but just hard levels, then why would we put experts in anything? It would make no sence. | 2010-09-20 22:33:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| @Fishrock123: In last message, core gameplay means, the defining features of a game. It's core mechanics. So lets say someone has a level that's simply a quiz, and I fail bad at this. You would imply that a player cannot be a pro LBP player because of the possibilities of what can be done in LBP? Regardless of what you do in LBP, the physics are the same. And at its core LBP is defined as a platformer. Sure someone can create plats that move very weird outside the usual, which would take getting used to. But point is expert players (or whatever word you want to use, adept) have mastered the core LBP mechanics to the point of surpassing normal levels, and even advanced levels. Only LBP2 will have 'different game types' as you refer, in which case I would be more specific with 'expert platforming'. In the meantime the core mechanics of LBP define LBP, and those mechanics are only platforming mechanics, whether use of jp, ability in water, precision, momentum control, planeshifting, jump measurements, etc. It's like that in anything, you can add something/change something to be unique and out of the usual and a pro would have to adjust because even a beginner could perform better than a pro if something within a game was changed, like how someone made anti-gravity plats or plats that move you automatically when landed on. Those different gameplay things are not used to define an adept player. The main functionality/core of gameplay defines this in any game, and general knowledge of gameplay terminolgy which is usually established by the adept players of a community and grows from there. But this is off-topic. This thread is not about that. It's about the major changes and loss of most levels in the 'insert word here community'. | 2010-09-20 22:33:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| Super jumps just make it hard for just about 70% of players to pass a level. And its a tradition we use almost all the time. And we have special forms of it were we must get to the max hight possible which could be very hard for us too. But super jumps are like our morning breakfast. You dont start your day without it. Or, at least the axpert/elite/adept/skilled/hardlevelplayers community does. Although i love to do logic sooo thats my dessert (along with winning a level) | 2010-09-20 22:39:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| @Yaru: It's not just those jumps. It's also the 2 grid wide thing you can no longer fit. Also in any game, if their are glitches, pros find ways to master them and use them. This depends on the glitch though. If the glitch allows cheating then any honorable pro would be against it. Super jumps for example, thankfully they're still in with exceptions of ones mentioned, are a no cheat glitch. They simply require >skill< to master a heightened jump utilizing an edge or curve. The point isn't "oh we need those glitches". The point is most of the levels in the expert community will be broken if the glitches are removed. And another point is MM said it would be backwards compatible. The one reason it is not backwards compatible is because unless MM staff played pro themselves there is no way they could have known about these things. But now hopefully they will as this has been brought up by various people across multiple LBP sites. | 2010-09-20 22:47:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| Super jumps just make it hard for just about 70% of players to pass a level. And its a tradition we use almost all the time. And we have special forms of it were we must get to the max hight possible which could be very hard for us too. But super jumps are like our morning breakfast. You dont start your day without it. Or, at least the axpert/elite/adept/skilled/hardlevelplayers community does. Although i love to do logic sooo thats my dessert (along with winning a level) Yes I know, but many are getting to 'depend' on it, you know? You shouldn't need to do it to prove you have skill playing, that just shows how good you are at a precision glitch. There are manyother non-glitch jum traps that have the exact same effect in weeding out the less precise players. | 2010-09-20 22:49:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707 |
| Less precise players would then rules scoreboards and flood them like OMG SO HARD CAN U BEAT? has over thousands of wins. i dont like that. i rage seeing it. I want a level were things are done perfect, or just aobut perfect | 2010-09-20 22:52:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| @Yaru: My last msg explains what the point was. Also, super jumps are our regular jumps. To say it's overused or relied on is like saying regular jumps used by the average players are overused. Super is regular to us because its more to our skill level. Most use them. Few don't. But again point is also the 2 small grid issue making most precision now broke, and also the fact that removing those jumps will make over 75% of community unplayable. That's HUGE. Not minor. | 2010-09-20 23:01:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| So that means the hitbox on u is bigger? Oh the irony. permanent Lethal glitch. Just waht i need. What's next? No more keys for everyone? i got that for me... | 2010-09-20 23:04:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| Ah, whatever. I think you guys are overrating this stuff though. | 2010-09-20 23:05:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578 |
| With all due respect Gevurah, just because you're "known," doesn't mean you can go around mocking whoever you want, and woud like to ask you to stop posting here unless you have a valid point you'd like to share about the situation. Even if I wasn't "known," I'd still be saying the same thing. Hyperbole is hyperbole regardless of how you want to sugarcoat it. And I haven't said anything as of since until you wanted to call me out. Many "elite" gamers do it by sticking to the old roots because they feel that's the way the game should be played. Are they wrong in wanting LBP2 to be the same? Nope. But coming in here saying the world is going to end is a little laughable. It happens all the time in fighting games. OMG WHAT DID THEY DO TO SAGAT, I'M NOT PLAYING SSFIV ANYMORE, or HOLY CRAP WAVEDASHING IS NIXED IN BRAWL I'M GOING TO STICK TO MELEE, which in fact a lot of players do. Is it wrong to suggest to keep playing LBP1 if they don't want their mechanics ruined? Nope. We all fear change in some form or fashion and this particular contingent always happens to be the most vocal. On that same note, if you truly consider yourself "hardcore," there's no real reason why you couldn't adapt to the new changes. I know, I know, loss of all that hard work from LBP1, but you should also embrace looking for new ways to exploit the new physics system. Look, I appreciate the hardcore contingent because they do offer a wider brand of gameplay from we're normally accustomed to here, but when it gets a little out of hand, please be prepared to take the heat. It's just hearing it from LBP is rather... surprising to say the least. | 2010-09-20 23:20:00 Author: gevurah22 Posts: 1476 |
| This is the only game change is not a good thing for (for the elite community). And gevurah is right about being able to find new exploits, but the only ones we knew... are the ones that defined us. The rest are usefull for amazing creators. No use to me or many other friends. | 2010-09-20 23:26:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
Donkey show has a good point there. A lot of experience the logic experts have gained in LBP1 will go to waste with the new microchips and logic components. But I haven't seen a thread complaining about it (or have I? not so sure now  ). In any case, it's not the end of the world, and we'll get so much in return.Also, one purpose of the beta is fixing the backward compatibility issues, so let's just wait and see. I am curious about this 2 grid problem. How does that work, what is the challenge there? | 2010-09-20 23:33:00 Author: Rogar  Posts: 2284 |
| if the compatability thing aint done exactly like they said, that goes for everything, then SUE SUE SUE if they did promise it. false advertisement is not good. Soooooo lets wait and see. | 2010-09-20 23:39:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| Though I do use this jump from time to time, I have NEVER encountered a good level that requires said glitch to pass... | 2010-09-20 23:39:00 Author: Weretigr  Posts: 2105 |
Oh teh noes!  They need to fix that badly! | 2010-09-20 23:41:00 Author: X-FROGBOY-X  Posts: 1800 |
| The main issue should be the lack of true backwards compatibility. MM said it will be, but testing is showing otherwise. That's false advertising. Hopefully they're still working on it. There will be a ton of angry creators once they discover their levels are broken. They mentioned early on that we might not get 100% backwards compatability. https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=26720-We-may-not-get-100-BC | 2010-09-20 23:44:00 Author: Rabid-Coot  Posts: 6728 |
| if the compatability thing aint done exactly like they said, that goes for everything, then SUE SUE SUE if they did promise it. false advertisement is not good. Soooooo lets wait and see. Well, you might wanna check on that. While the development is still in progress, all info is subject to change. Also, seeing as the super jumps etc are glitches, which they have warned may or may not make it through... I think you'll have a hard time pushing that one... Not sure if you're joking or not, but yeah... not much chance of a false advertisement on that one methinks. Maybe you could get a refund on the game though? | 2010-09-20 23:48:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| @donkey show and Rogar: Now those comments were respectable. I'm glad donkey show is familiar with that side of gaming. @donkey show: True, though in this case myself and others do want the changes in LBP2 as it allows for many new possibilities. But taking away backwards compatibility is a major issue. @Rogar: Logic wont go to waste. Levels are still backward compatible with old logic. People into logic will still have the old, but simply will be starting out fresh for LBP2's logic which they'll have to learn the logic for that game. But their old levels will not be broke and will still function, which is not the case with over 75% of extreme levels. And what do you mean what is the challenge in 2 small grid sized gaps? Jumps and gaps requiring movement in that amount of space will be ruined, which is a lot. Like imagine a jump between 2 spikes, 1 on floor and 1 on ceiling, and the gap you're required to jump through is the size of your sacks head. Or a tunnel barely over 2 small grid wide with electric ceiling and floor and small planks less than half the size of your sackboy that require you to jump from plat to plat without hitting electric. Those are 2 examples, and no longer possible. EDIT:::::: @Worm: Wow, come on Worm that's a little out there, lol. You're not going to get anywhere with threats. Hopefully you were joking. @Rabid-Coot: Thanks for that link. | 2010-09-20 23:49:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| Well i was joking with the SUE SUE SUE thing. Throwin that out there for mah fans :3 lol. BUt anyway. u haave a message hana account. | 2010-09-21 00:12:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| Logic wont go to waste. Levels are still backward compatible with old logic. People into logic will still have the old, but simply will be starting out fresh for LBP2's logic which they'll have to learn the logic for that game. But their old levels will not be broke and will still function, which is not the case with over 75% of extreme levels. Sure, they'll transfer, but they'll look silly and feel clunky compared to anything a "noob" can put together in an hour. And unlike your glitches, there's no helping them with a backwards compatibility patch. Apart from going back to the levels and totally reediting them, which also works for your levels. And what do you mean what is the challenge in 2 small grid sized gaps? Jumps and gaps requiring movement in that amount of space will be ruined, which is a lot. Like imagine a jump between 2 spikes, 1 on floor and 1 on ceiling, and the gap you're required to jump through is the size of your sacks head. Or a tunnel barely over 2 small grid wide with electric ceiling and floor and small planks less than half the size of your sackboy that require you to jump from plat to plat without hitting electric. Ah, I see! And I thought Oh no! The princess was difficult! The others are glitches, but this... I would think it wouldn't be that hard to fix. In fact, I'm surprised they would change it. | 2010-09-21 00:55:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284 |
| Logic is not really backwards compatable. I mean, who's going to use LBP1 logic in LBP2 anyways? All those guys who built flying machines in LBP1? Those will be meh with new tools. Backwards compatability to the extent we will get is something to be greatful for anyways. We have no clue how much of the game engine they overhauled, or what sort of coding complexities come up while doing so. Considering (as mentioned in another thread about the corner jump) there is a possibility of this being a physic-engine related thing, where jumping from corners and curves in certain ways may carry more velocity, resulting in a higher jump, I think it is safe to assume that if the physics engine got an overhaul, MM might have (not knowing its uses) try'd to prevent objections to the physics engine to minimize other possible glitches/etc, and there would then be signifigant chance of this being removed premanently. However, this is assuming it is a core physics engine glitch. It could be something much simpler. Just lets not hate on MM if it doesn't work.  | 2010-09-21 01:20:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578 |
| Even if I wasn't "known," I'd still be saying the same thing. Hyperbole is hyperbole regardless of how you want to sugarcoat it. And I haven't said anything as of since until you wanted to call me out. Many "elite" gamers do it by sticking to the old roots because they feel that's the way the game should be played. Are they wrong in wanting LBP2 to be the same? Nope. But coming in here saying the world is going to end is a little laughable. It happens all the time in fighting games. OMG WHAT DID THEY DO TO SAGAT, I'M NOT PLAYING SSFIV ANYMORE, or HOLY CRAP WAVEDASHING IS NIXED IN BRAWL I'M GOING TO STICK TO MELEE, which in fact a lot of players do. Is it wrong to suggest to keep playing LBP1 if they don't want their mechanics ruined? Nope. We all fear change in some form or fashion and this particular contingent always happens to be the most vocal. On that same note, if you truly consider yourself "hardcore," there's no real reason why you couldn't adapt to the new changes. I know, I know, loss of all that hard work from LBP1, but you should also embrace looking for new ways to exploit the new physics system. Look, I appreciate the hardcore contingent because they do offer a wider brand of gameplay from we're normally accustomed to here, but when it gets a little out of hand, please be prepared to take the heat. It's just hearing it from LBP is rather... surprising to say the least. http://www.tweak3d.net/forums/imagehosting/34514b5b4b8f83919.gif Well then it seems I've mis-judged here, my apologies. On that same note, if you truly consider yourself "hardcore," there's no real reason why you couldn't adapt to the new changes. I know, I know, loss of all that hard work from LBP1, but you should also embrace looking for new ways to exploit the new physics system. Exactly! Elites/ hardcore/ pros/ whatever, shouldn't rely on that stuff to begin with anywas. | 2010-09-21 01:22:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707 |
| If you care about your levels so much, you'll edit them in LBP2 so that they work in LBP2. Geez. | 2010-09-21 01:43:00 Author: Tyler  Posts: 663 |
| @Rogar and everyone else: We have very good reason to be angry, BUT> I still plan to preorder LBP2. Worse case scenario is that we would have to go through all of our levels and alter the broken parts which will take ages. As I said I still look forward to the new. | 2010-09-21 01:49:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| I am extremely discouraged by all of this. I wish MM would change what is happening. All that time and effort for nothing... | 2010-09-21 02:13:00 Author: ladycroft22 Posts: 2 |
| I am extremely discouraged by all of this. I wish MM would change what is happening. All that time and effort for nothing... Please, Read my above post. :colossus: | 2010-09-21 02:18:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578 |
| It still feels like such a waste of time/energy. I just wish it didn't have to be like this. | 2010-09-21 02:33:00 Author: ladycroft22 Posts: 2 |
| Media Molecule: "Oh and those 2 Million existing levels? Still there and looking better than ever!" They made no point of the levels playing exactly the same, just that they'll still be there. Have fun suing over that... I think the biggest thing that bothers me about this thread is the "Me Me Me Me" attitude. I'm all for being upset if they change something that effects your existing levels. I'm sorry. But don't act for a second like you're being personally victimized by Media Molecule for not playing hardcore LBP1 levels. Most of the things that they fix are not to take features away from you, but to patch up inconsistencies and errors in the first game. So, you've designed levels that depend on a quirk of the game, which ultimately depends on a predictable glitch? Awesome. Other creators do that as well, in different capacities. That doesn't mean you need to get all frazzled before you've even seen what else the game has to offer. Or even if they fix the error. Point it out to them, but playing the part of a victim, rather than reasonably conveying your concerns, followed by waiting, is just silly. My $.02 | 2010-09-21 02:37:00 Author: comphermc  Posts: 5338 |
| Comphermc is right in way. only time will tell. Oh and the deal with editing levels to fit lbp2, do you know what that would do? lets see..... levels would be far too easy.... yea thats it. an easy level. just what you guys have been praying for from us. oh praise god for easy levels. hey lets make lethals gone too while were at it. None of you would talk jack about this stuff if MM were to remove your preciouse switches and whatnot from working. all that hardwork. HEY! WHY NOT MAKE A SUBSTITUTE? >_> Ill wait untill lbp2. if i dont like it 1 bit. I quit. | 2010-09-21 03:44:00 Author: XxWormholexX Posts: 101 |
| Why the hostility, mate? Nobody ever said that you had to make your levels easier. I'm not sure where you read into that. | 2010-09-21 03:47:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| Comphermc is right in way. only time will tell. Oh and the deal with editing levels to fit lbp2, do you know what that would do? lets see..... levels would be far too easy.... yea thats it. an easy level. just what you guys have been praying for from us. oh praise god for easy levels. hey lets make lethals gone too while were at it. None of you would talk jack about this stuff if MM were to remove your preciouse switches and whatnot from working. all that hardwork. HEY! WHY NOT MAKE A SUBSTITUTE? >_> Ill wait untill lbp2. if i dont like it 1 bit. I quit. Did you not read my post on the physics engine possibilities? If it was something akin to what I described, they may have no choice. No need to rage at them, if it's broke, find something even harder. | 2010-09-21 03:51:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578 |
| I think the biggest thing that bothers me about this thread is the "Me Me Me Me" attitude... I agree. Who are these "Pro" players? | 2010-09-21 03:52:00 Author: Unknown User  |
| Guys, guys, both sides of this argument are wrong. You all hating on the pro players, I'm disappointed. You all know as well as anyone that LBP is a multi-faceted game to be enjoyed by many types of players, and that the LBP engine caters to many types of players. These levels that the pro players make don't affect you in a negative manner, so why hate? Also, y'all are arguing semantics when it comes to the definition of elite, pro, etc. The end result is still the same, the people who are pro players explore the engine and know it better than most players, and use that knowledge to overcome seemingly impossible challenges. They are not trying to come off as holier than thou. And you, pro players. You should all know by now that a sequel doesn't mean the game will stay the same. When a new game comes out and doesn't include the same imperfections in the engine as the prequel, you don't just throw a fit and get angry, you explore the possibilities of the new engine and exploit it in new and sometimes more fascinating ways. I do understand that this is a special case because the creators promised backwards compatibility, but you have to keep in mind that this is a beta, the physics may not be indicative of the final version, and even if these are the final physics, your duty as highly skilled individuals is to explore the new engine and create new levels based around the new exploits. One last thing, if you have issues with MM, the best thing to do is direct your complaints to MM themselves. They're not a relatively closed off company like certain other game companies, and the main designers speak English, so I'm certain if the pro community makes its voice heard something will happen. Going to a fansite and yelling at the fans will do little to help your case....although I thank you for enlightening me to the existence of this community in the LBP scene, haha. | 2010-09-21 04:12:00 Author: mogwaimon Posts: 53 |
| @comphermc: Whoa there. I am not hostile towards MM. The purpose of this post as title says is to get word to MM so they might fix. Your comment should be aimed at anyone making threats or getting frazzled. The only people that got frazzled are the ones that made a negative comment toward people that play in the expert community, and Worm is obviously frazzled, which seems to me he is angry that people would post the mean negative things about a community they know nothing of. It gets old having people treat you like crud and deny something exists with 0 knowledge of what something entails. This thread is not 1 sided, nor did I begin the off-topic argument, which usually begins when someone says something silly/negative about something that is very apparently true. I said nothing of sueing, or threats, etc. I did however mention protest, which simply means gathering as many people from that community as possible to try and get the attention of MM so they will hear our voices. @LBP333: Read my post on 1st or 2nd page. It starts with something like NOTE to everyone. | 2010-09-21 04:18:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| If you don't want to modify your levels and have them still be 100% compatible why can't you play them on LBP? I'm certain LBP2 will introduce plenty of new "features" for every type of player to leverage in exciting new and challenging levels. News-flash, the super jump is a bug just like the extra layers, invisible gas and all other stuff I've made extensive use of in my levels. No matter what happens with LBP2 my levels will be fine in LBP if I want to play them for nostalgia. How many times do you plan to replay these old levels anyway...haven't you broken all your controllers in frustration yet? Gotta break a few eggs to make an omlette. I hope Mm fixes whatever glitches they need to in order to make LBP2 a better product. As a software developer I have a lot of sympathy for Mm when someone has designed things around glitch that the new code addresses properly...I hate adding kludges to support nonsensical old behavior. It sounds like Mm is really trying to be as backward oompatible as possible...but it also sounds lke they've made way too many changes for this to ever be 100% with all the weird undocumented features the community has found. It certainly won't hurt to file an official beta report and provide a level/video to demonstrate the problem and see what happens...but when it comes to the fringe cases and glitches, deal with the reality that they may stop working or stick with LBP. | 2010-09-21 05:00:00 Author: fullofwin  Posts: 1214 |
| I just got the message from Hana Kami about this thread. wow. The sheer level of ignorance propagating throughout this thread is just disgusting. You all act as if this is no big deal, yet i guarantee that if something like grabbing was no longer a compatible gameplay feature, there would be riots. people who don't have any experience with this subject should honestly butt out. superjumps and the likes are not a skill-glitch for us- they are a core game mechanic. there are literally thousands of these types of levels out there, many of them on par with the kind of stuff we see in the community spotlight. just take a look at fj's levels- every one of them are visually and mechanically amazing. I suspect that, if mm doesn't do something about this, there will be a significant number of people who permanently quit lbp. As in, somewhere in the hundreds; despite what you may think, there are quite a few of us out there. the audacity that i have seen in some of your replies is revolting. you people act like the entirety of the lbp community is contained within this site. this may be a wake up call for you, but you are one face of a community much larger than yourselves. so long as your levels- your entire community- is safe, you have no right to chastise us. way to make me totally loose hope in this website | 2010-09-21 05:18:00 Author: brb_gymnastics  Posts: 32 |
| I think they are all just trying to point out that comparing it to 9/11 and saying you will sue Mm is more than a little bit overblown. It really is not the end of the world. you can still play lbp (the game you bought). If you dont like LBP2, dont buy it. It makes you seem childish. Which does nothing to help anybody take notice of your plight. edit*ed | 2010-09-21 05:25:00 Author: EinRobot Posts: 739 |
| To everyone in this thread: http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2008/7/15/saupload_calvinhobbscalmdown.jpg It's just a game. All I can see in this thread is a whole lot of melodrama over a whole lot of nothing, about how it has completely ruined a game despite the fact that MM has spent hundreds of hours making the game for you guys. And then I see posts bashing our community, because of one little topic. inb4 someone makes a post pointing out something I didn't read in this thread | 2010-09-21 05:34:00 Author: Arkei  Posts: 1432 |
| I just got the message from Hana Kami about this thread. wow. The sheer level of ignorance propagating throughout this thread is just disgusting. You all act as if this is no big deal, yet i guarantee that if something like grabbing was no longer a compatible gameplay feature, there would be riots. people who don't have any experience with this subject should honestly stfu. superjumps and the likes are not a skill-glitch for us- they are a core game mechanic. there are literally thousands of these types of levels out there, many of them on par with the kind of stuff we see in the community spotlight. just take a look at fj's levels- every one of them are visually and mechanically amazing. I suspect that, if mm doesn't do something about this, there will be a significant number of people who permanently quit lbp. As in, somewhere in the hundreds; despite what you may think, there are quite a few of us out there. the audacity that i have seen in some of your replies is revolting. you people act like the entirety of the lbp community is contained within this site. this may be a wake up call for you, but you are one face of a community much larger than yourselves. so long as your levels- your entire community- is safe, you have no right to chastise us. way to make me totally loose hope in this website d00d.....I like playing 1337 levels as much as the next guy but, you need to calm the heck down, alright? You know why people don't think this is a big deal? Most people that play LBP are in it for the fun man, not the hardcore gaming, those who are in for the hardcore gaming, of course, show more interest then the non HxC players, logical right? So theres no need to just be telling everyone that doesn't know what elite playing is all about to 'stfu' it's a bit rude (hypocrisy ftw). Also, comparing the corner jump to the grab feature is a little far fetched in my opinion :/ it's more like 3D effect, some people know how to use it, others don't. Yes there are a lot of levels that are elite levels, yes maybe thousands, and yes some of them are quite amazing in visuals and such but, if people are going to quit over a glitch, then thats just silly and as for the losing hundreds of people, LBP has a bigger audience man, those hundreds lost will be replaced in no time :/ And as for the things you find 'revolting' i'm not even gonna touch that. You spelled lose wrong also  if this was in anyway offended then im sorry, i just cant tell the difference anymore between naughty and nice. | 2010-09-21 05:38:00 Author: Unknown User |
| I just got the message from Hana Kami about this thread. wow. The sheer level of ignorance propagating throughout this thread is just disgusting. You all act as if this is no big deal, yet i guarantee that if something like grabbing was no longer a compatible gameplay feature, there would be riots. people who don't have any experience with this subject should honestly stfu. superjumps and the likes are not a skill-glitch for us- they are a core game mechanic. there are literally thousands of these types of levels out there, many of them on par with the kind of stuff we see in the community spotlight. just take a look at fj's levels- every one of them are visually and mechanically amazing. I suspect that, if mm doesn't do something about this, there will be a significant number of people who permanently quit lbp. As in, somewhere in the hundreds; despite what you may think, there are quite a few of us out there. the audacity that i have seen in some of your replies is revolting. you people act like the entirety of the lbp community is contained within this site. this may be a wake up call for you, but you are one face of a community much larger than yourselves. so long as your levels- your entire community- is safe, you have no right to chastise us. way to make me totally loose hope in this website But that's the thing, is it really a core gameplay mechanic, or is it just a physics calculation gone awry? I mean, sometimes it is. Look at Disgaea 3, for example. The way experience is calculated makes it so you gain exponentially higher experience from level 99 enemies than you would most other enemies. In essence, you get EXP equivalent to enemies around level 300+ from level 99 enemies.That's been in since the first Disgaea and is basically a mechanic However....and keep in mind I'm on your side, I admire when gaming communities take these games to an entirely unexplored level....one, this is a beta and basing this sort of weight on a beta version's physics is just sort of pre-emptive...I mean if you find beta vids on Youtube of Sonic 4 you can clearly see the physics aren't perfected yet, especially in the casino level...and two, any pro knows that games change in sequels. SSB Melee went to Brawl and wasn't the same game. It was a more shallow game for it, but it was different. Marvel vs Capcom 3 has an entirely different system, character set, even button layout from Marvel 2. Even if you take an update like that of SFIII Double Impact to SFIII 3rd Strike, the whole game is flipped on its head. Sean moves from top tier to bottom tier, Chun Li, and Makoto are introduced and end up being top/near top tier, etc. You can either change with the times or stay in the past, but either way do what you ultimately enjoy, and recognize that things change. | 2010-09-21 05:55:00 Author: mogwaimon Posts: 53 |
| And yet, 75% of 'pro levels' are, at most, 5% of total levels. I believe the expression I would use is 'Caring face,' while have a blank expression. Oh dear god, we might lose a technique which is only a tiny bug in the game, not even meant to be there. It's the creator's fault for building a level around a bug, which( as happens to bugs) was fixed. Too bad. This can't even be compared to switches or grabbing. It's a mistake in coding. Sweet Jebus! A mistake was fixed? NOO! | 2010-09-21 06:10:00 Author: tomodon246  Posts: 624 |
| At least try out that Yuikiki Residence level, guys. I just tried it and I made it to the third checkpoint by the time I left, haha. Stuff is just CRAZY, you have to have perfect timing and precision to even think about passing these levels. It would be a **** shame to lose them in LBP2. Of course, the parts I played only really seemed to have the 2 inch gap mechanic, but still. I applaud anyone who can beat that level...and maybe I'll eventually become the 91st person to beat that level, haha. Now if you'll excuse me I'm about to go get owned by one of Festerd Jester's levels. | 2010-09-21 07:11:00 Author: mogwaimon Posts: 53 |
| @brb: You have good reason to be angry, but that was sort of uncalled for. Please don't get this locked. I'm not saying being angry is wrong because I am too, but conveying it in that manner isn't cool. As we are friends on PSN you know I mean well, so please don't reply angry. What you said about the posts here and negativity towards that community is true, but conveying it in that way just makes people want to hate you doesn't do any good. @Arkei: That is just certain people. Myself, ladycroft, and other have not bashed anything. But people that have been pushed to the edge with bashing pro community, or suddenly jumped in and read thread all at once would probably break. Yes, I believe that attitude is wrong and doesn't help the situation, but I can see where it would be hard to not get angry with the 'revolting' posts left fro'some' people that completely bash ur community. @mogwai: Lol, like I said on 2nd page when I listed extreme levels to try, yuikikis Residence is easy for seasoned pros, but still in the lower spectrum of 'expert difficulty'. It's a good starting point. | 2010-09-21 07:20:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| LBP2 is NOT backwards compatible with professional levels!! I am in NA so not in beta, but I have friends that are. After the NDA was lifted, some fellow players from the pro community chimed in on things they noticed. 1. Sackboy no longer fits in a 2 small grid space under electric ceiling. 2. Triple super jumps (a jump measurement range) no longer work, which is bouncing of an edge for extra high jump. 3. Inverted super jumps are broken, which is an extra high jump from an inside corner. Those are the things they pointed out. This will destroy around 75% or more of the levels in the expert community!!!! I almost had tears in my eyes when I found this out. One friend in particular, most of his levels are now unplayable/broke, and he is a go to source of extreme platforming. This is a serious issue we talked about n worry months in advance, and were prepared to protest if LBP2 was not backwards compatible with pro community. The entire legacy that has been built upon a community of players playing at extreme skill levels would be gone!! All those levels that require perfected play control and sometime over 4 hours a level to clear. All that work gone!! Most pro players only play in the expert community. It's the only thing we play and have played in past 2 years or how ever long since we were introduced. If it's gone a decent sized portion of the community will be left 'homeless' for lack of a better word. Creating extreme plats for pros and playing pro is a passion of mine and the players that do. We work hard and train on a daily basis to reach these levels of skill. I have even been asked to mentor players wanting to get into playing pro from time to time, but it would all be for nothing. Myself and other have to get this to the attention of MM. Does anyone know how? Sure, beta testers can report this as bug, but I have feeling it would go ignored at this close to launch. And a lot of pro players are not in beta, so how would we speak to MM? This is an urgent PANIC situation. NOTE: If you do not play in the pro community please do not respond saying those things being removed are no big deal. If you're a casual or advanced player then you probably wont realize the scale/magnitude of this. Well, Hana_Kami asked me to say something on this thread, though.... honestly, what I have to say about this may not be exactly what you wanted, Hana, I apologize if this is the case. First of all as was pointed out in the quote, can never expect a sequel to be ENTIRELY the same. Any changes that were made, were made because MM decided that it would be a good idea. And stuff like "superjumps" and whatnot... I've always thought this was a bug within the physics engine to start with, which I believe I've mentioned to you, Hana. It's one reason why the "pro" levels are hard to get into for most players... it is using mechanics that arent necessarily entirely there, and as such not explained by the game. The ONLY way to know about superjumps is if someone has it explained to them. This is more proof to me that this is a glitch. Really though Hana, it's unlike you to give up so easily here. Oh, I can see some of this stuff annoying me as well.... if the hitbox is changed, this means my previous danmaku bosses.... including the mighty Rave.... may not work right anymore, and may become unbeatable. BUT. I refuse to look at it this way. The new stuff in the game will enable me to make ACTUAL danmaku shmups in LBP2, not just a danmaku-platformer combo, which is never what I REALLY wanted to begin with. This is a chance for me to take my concept much, much further.... I really think you should try looking at it this way in your situation as well. Old levels not working right? Try editing them... I'm certain you can come up with changes that work. And if not? Make some new ones. I *know* you can do this, lol. And I think making levels like that is something you enjoy doing, unless I'm mistaken? I dont think the "pro" community is going anywhere. There's still gonna be all sorts of people.... such as myself.... that NEEDS a challenge to keep interested. That's not changing. But this is a chance to turn it into something genuinely new and interesting. Think of what you can do with the new game engine, to make difficult levels.... I for one already have numerous new murderous monstrosities in mind for LBP2. That's what I think. Chances are, you WONT get MM to change things this late in development. I dont say this because I think they shouldnt BE changed or something, I say it just cause I know something of how development works. But you shouldnt lose hope here or something. When LBP2 comes out, learn the new game mechanics and things, and USE them.... dont try to push them away. I'd type more here, but my hand hurts like nothing else, so I'm cutting it short. | 2010-09-21 07:27:00 Author: Bridget  Posts: 334 |
| Yea, that's why I tried it, it's still beyond anything I ever dreamed of platforming though. I tried Festerd's Everlasting and couldn't even get past the first obstacle, haha. Those spinning electric triangles....insane. Right now though I'm trying his 20x Hell race level, I managed to tie a score with 13th place and get to the red jumps once, but no further yet, haha. It's quite a unique experience. | 2010-09-21 07:28:00 Author: mogwaimon Posts: 53 |
| @Bridget: No, Bridget your post is fine. In another post later in thread I say "I still plan to get LBP because I am looking forward to new possibilities. This thread as title says was made to get word to MM and have our voices heard so they might fix. That was the point of post." But of course who is really going to read entire thread. ^^ I also have a feeling it won't be changed this late, but they must still know of it in case there's a chance. It's a major wipe of a community. Of course we can rebuild and make tweaks, and as you know I am looking forward to it to the new stuff. @mogwai: ^^ Glad you tried some. | 2010-09-21 07:44:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| Comphermc is right in way. only time will tell. Oh and the deal with editing levels to fit lbp2, do you know what that would do? lets see..... levels would be far too easy.... yea thats it. an easy level. just what you guys have been praying for from us. oh praise god for easy levels. hey lets make lethals gone too while were at it. None of you would talk jack about this stuff if MM were to remove your preciouse switches and whatnot from working. all that hardwork. HEY! WHY NOT MAKE A SUBSTITUTE? >_> Ill wait untill lbp2. if i dont like it 1 bit. I quit. So in short you are just admitting to everyone that even you believe your levels are only considered elites for the fact that they use a jump glitch, and that they'd be regular easy levels without it dude...  Like I've said, I've played, and build many pre/ elite/ challenging levels that do not need or use the glitch at all to be difficult m8. I just got the message from Hana Kami about this thread. wow. The sheer level of ignorance propagating throughout this thread is just disgusting. You all act as if this is no big deal, yet i guarantee that if something like grabbing was no longer a compatible gameplay feature, there would be riots. Sadly this is not a "gameplay feature" but a random glitch that happened, besides, they already said many building and decorational glitchs have indeed been patched, but did the creators burst into anger like you and a few others here? No, they took it and rather than feel restricted by it they just started thinking of better ways to do all that was patched, and so should you, don't be limited by it being fixed, rather be freed of your obsession over it and build ACTUAL difficult levels. people who don't have any experience with this subject should honestly stfu. superjumps and the likes are not a skill-glitch for us- they are a core game mechanic Evenb so, its still a glitch, no matter what you call it or whanna make it seem like, its a glitch, as simple as that. there are literally thousands of these types of levels out there, many of them on par with the kind of stuff we see in the community spotlight. just take a look at fj's levels- every one of them are visually and mechanically amazing. I suspect that, if mm doesn't do something about this, there will be a significant number of people who permanently quit lbp. As in, somewhere in the hundreds; despite what you may think, there are quite a few of us out there. sadly I doubt all will think alike and quit for such minor inconvenience, but rather be creative and work around this. the audacity that i have seen in some of your replies is revolting. you people act like the entirety of the lbp community is contained within this site. this may be a wake up call for you, but you are one face of a community much larger than yourselves. Now read the above and apply it to yourself, because the irony in that statement is just too much. so long as your levels- your entire community- is safe, you have no right to chastise us. way to make me totally loose hope in this website Well, Hana_Kami asked me to say something on this thread, though.... honestly, what I have to say about this may not be exactly what you wanted, Hana, I apologize if this is the case. First of all as was pointed out in the quote, can never expect a sequel to be ENTIRELY the same. Any changes that were made, were made because MM decided that it would be a good idea. And stuff like "superjumps" and whatnot... I've always thought this was a bug within the physics engine to start with, which I believe I've mentioned to you, Hana. It's one reason why the "pro" levels are hard to get into for most players... it is using mechanics that arent necessarily entirely there, and as such not explained by the game. The ONLY way to know about superjumps is if someone has it explained to them. This is more proof to me that this is a glitch. Really though Hana, it's unlike you to give up so easily here. Oh, I can see some of this stuff annoying me as well.... if the hitbox is changed, this means my previous danmaku bosses.... including the mighty Rave.... may not work right anymore, and may become unbeatable. BUT. I refuse to look at it this way. The new stuff in the game will enable me to make ACTUAL danmaku shmups in LBP2, not just a danmaku-platformer combo, which is never what I REALLY wanted to begin with. This is a chance for me to take my concept much, much further.... I really think you should try looking at it this way in your situation as well. Old levels not working right? Try editing them... I'm certain you can come up with changes that work. And if not? Make some new ones. I *know* you can do this, lol. And I think making levels like that is something you enjoy doing, unless I'm mistaken? I dont think the "pro" community is going anywhere. There's still gonna be all sorts of people.... such as myself.... that NEEDS a challenge to keep interested. That's not changing. But this is a chance to turn it into something genuinely new and interesting. Think of what you can do with the new game engine, to make difficult levels.... I for one already have numerous new murderous monstrosities in mind for LBP2. That's what I think. Chances are, you WONT get MM to change things this late in development. I dont say this because I think they shouldnt BE changed or something, I say it just cause I know something of how development works. But you shouldnt lose hope here or something. When LBP2 comes out, learn the new game mechanics and things, and USE them.... dont try to push them away. I'd type more here, but my hand hurts like nothing else, so I'm cutting it short. Bravo! Finnaly someone else from the 'adept' (or whatever) community who doesn't seem bound to this glitch, unlike many here, and who seem to think getting rid of this means no one can build any more difficult levels for some reason... He's actually seeing outside the box, others should try it too... | 2010-09-21 09:11:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707 |
| lol "pro community" Calling it pro doesn't make it pro. The levels I see with "jump challenges" - yes they have a lot of plays and hearts, but it seems most of them were made by noob creators who simply made jumps that were further and further apart, and some players brought it upon themselves to find a glitch in the physics engine such that they could complete it. Here's an example from an actual pro game - in Quake 3, a quirk in the physics engine allows you to strafe jump, that is, build up speed by jumping and moving from side to side as you run forward. Now this is an intended feature which started out life as a glitch, but it's something that's quite major and game-changing such that they decided to leave it in. However the "overbounce" is a glitch that allows you to jump extra high if you fall from a certain height and jump as you hit the ground. This was removed from Quake Live as it is a minor thing that doesn't add to the game and is much more of a bug. Then there would be straight bugs like being able to get outside of the map which should definitely be removed. In LBP we have the same situation. Here the jumping tricks are like the overbounce - they are little quirks that should make no difference to the gameplay, and indeed they don't, except some creators tried to make them matter. Furthermore, these tricks rely on bugs and glitches in the physics engine which may be a result of chaotic errors. What I'm saying is, that all MM might do is change the graphics engine, and because that causes knock-on effects to the framerate and hence the physics engine, even that could break some of these techniques. These levels are TRYING to be on the very edge of what is possible to do - and that's exactly the kind of level that will be broken by any type of tiny change. | 2010-09-21 09:22:00 Author: thor  Posts: 388 |
| @Yaru: Okay, I'm getting a little agitated now. I have replied to your last 2 messages in thread stating that I never said you cant build new stuff and said what the point was and clearly expressed im looking forward to the new possibilities. I even said it to Bridget, but you keep ignoring it was ever said. There's no way you could have missed them, yet see other posts to reply to. So I doubt you aren't reading them. EDIT: @thor: I agree with your post except a few things . . . "lol 'pro community' (saying i dont call it that like i shouldn't is wrong, that's what it is expert community, as the thousands that play there know) "n00b creators" (this is entirely beside the point as expert players and expert creators are 2 different things, and as for all those jump levels, i hate them, none ive ever played are pro level difficulty though some claim to be, and they are easy to make as they require zero create skills, i have no idea what your point of bringing those levels up are, lol) "actual pro game" (LBP, like Quake, Counterstrike, and a most any game that has skill levels, has pro players, so saying that like you're saying Quake is actual pro game but LBP has no such thing is ridiculous) | 2010-09-21 09:22:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| lol "pro community" Calling it pro doesn't make it pro. The levels I see with "jump challenges" - yes they have a lot of plays and hearts, but it seems most of them were made by noob creators who simply made jumps that were further and further apart, and some players brought it upon themselves to find a glitch in the physics engine such that they could complete it. Here's an example from an actual pro game - in Quake 3, a quirk in the physics engine allows you to strafe jump, that is, build up speed by jumping and moving from side to side as you run forward. Now this is an intended feature which started out life as a glitch, but it's something that's quite major and game-changing such that they decided to leave it in. However the "overbounce" is a glitch that allows you to jump extra high if you fall from a certain height and jump as you hit the ground. This was removed from Quake Live as it is a minor thing that doesn't add to the game and is much more of a bug. Then there would be straight bugs like being able to get outside of the map which should definitely be removed. In LBP we have the same situation. Here the jumping tricks are like the overbounce - they are little quirks that should make no difference to the gameplay, and indeed they don't, except some creators tried to make them matter. Furthermore, these tricks rely on bugs and glitches in the physics engine which may be a result of chaotic errors. What I'm saying is, that all MM might do is change the graphics engine, and because that causes knock-on effects to the framerate and hence the physics engine, even that could break some of these techniques. These levels are TRYING to be on the very edge of what is possible to do - and that's exactly the kind of level that will be broken by any type of tiny change. That's kind of funny, I obviously can't speak for all the levels but the levels I saw as I was hearting the creators mentioned by Hana earlier in the thread actually had very few hearts/plays and even fewer completions. The Yuikiki Residence level alone only has 90 completions....Everlasting had a mere THREE completes, and 20 x Hell had like 1,000 completes, but only because it's a survival level where if you die you complete the level. So it's not like these are super popular levels we're talking about. Also, I wouldn't compare the Quake III overbounce glitch with the superjump, that's a FPS game where jump height isn't as important as a platformer...I mean yea, it's important to a degree, someone who can effectively rocket jump has a clear advantage over someone who can't, but we're comparing a jump mechanic in a FPS to a platformer's jump mechanic where the entire game pretty much revolves around getting from point A to B, usually with much jumping. Lastly, you should never punish the creator or the player for pushing the game's boundaries to their limit. That is what we are here to do after all, eh? | 2010-09-21 09:41:00 Author: mogwaimon Posts: 53 |
| @brb_gymnastics: Take the attitude elsewhere. I'm dead against people deliberately trying to rile you guys up, but the fact that at least one person from the "pro" community always ends up aggressive and inappropriate doesn't exactly help us to help you. Especially when most of the others, including the OP, are showing a fair bit of restraint and pragmatism in this case and actually trying to achieve something useful. Your attitude does nothing to help this conversation along, merely to draw lines in the sand.... It's counterproductive and making the points so clumsily merely opens you up for counters and then the whole thing escalates. I won't have this turn into a flame war and as I'm probably going to have to keep a close eye on this anyway, expect me to simply target troublemakers directly rather than lock the thread. Back on topic: I still maintain that the best route is clear and concise information, with examples, submitted as bug reports to MM, ensuring that they are in a manner that is accessible to the uninitiated - communication is key here. There are a lot of BC issues being worked on at the moment, so it's highly likely that the super jump glitch (and glitch it is), may get sidelined. The hitbox issues sounds like a genuine core feature change, though and as the exact dimensions of the hitbox make naff all difference to most of us, MM might be able to move it back. Who knows? Submit the reports and hassle your friends in the beta to do the same. It's the best way to get your voices heard. @Hana: I think yaru is responding with the same comments to different people. He's not trying to hammer the point home to you | 2010-09-21 10:03:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| @ladylyn: Since you're post wasn't very specific, I am going to assume you're referring to me. With that said: I am not worked up about anything. If you were keeping up with thread this is obvious. Read my posts last 4 pages. Now other players from that community that have posted here, some, were worked up. Also, as I've stated multiple times in thread, this isn't just about those 'glitches'. It's about your sack no longer being able to move in 2 small grid space around hazards, which is not a glitch. I also pointed out multiple times in thread that I am planning to preorder LBP2 and looking forward to the new possibilities, and I also pointed out multiple times that the thread was for a non-beta (im NA) like to be able to bring the issues to the attention of MM since there's next to no players from expert community in beta excepta handful. So when you say this is hilarious, I assume you mean the conversation in thread because you had posted earlier today, which means your hilarious reference isn't to the topic post as you have already read it. So if it was in reference to the entire convo, then that means you did read my other posts, but yet your recent post implies you didn't. But I stated that for you now so you don't have to go back and read. And use a gimmick to become pro? What in the world are you talking about? Since when does using a super jump of any kind make you a pro? LOL! First of all there are many jump techniques. The super jump is still in LBP2. Only the jumps in topic are not. There are many techniques. Though players in expert community master them which takes practice over long period of time. I am not trying to be rude, just 'this is hilarious' and 'find another gimmick to become pro' sound very insulting and rude and missing point altogether. EDIT: I no longer see ladylyn's post, so I assume it was removed while I was typing response. So ignore this post plz. EDIT: @rtm: I just found out that Yaru has been ignoring my posts. He sent me a PSN reading: No offense, but you're kind of giving pro players a bad name, saying they 'need' the glitch to be called pro, you know?" I am saying this because it is relevant to my last post and thread or I wouldn't reveal someone's PM. And I don't expect you to reply this as I understand you are not trying to get involved in anything. I was simply stating this as it confirms my last post to Yaru was right. | 2010-09-21 10:21:00 Author: Hana_Kami Posts: 393 |
| Whoa!! What a topic lol. Ive posted this on littlebigland.com in the aim of posting specifics so people know what theyre actually arguing about. OK. after extensive testing i have the following results.....super jumps work fine but the animation is sketchy.double super jumps have now got a two block defecit.inverted super jumps have a one block defecit and the technique is nowhere near as predictable.uphill slides still work fine.the two block "safe zones" dont work anymore. me and ghostinsickness have just spent ages testing old levels and new possibilties. all i can say is this. the old levels wont work. our finely tuned skills mean nearly squat now. im still not 100% familiar with the new fluidity. also. i have a theory on the hitboxes. i dont think it is the hitbox that has changed. its the dangerzone on our sacks. reason i say this is that you can still drop down a pixel perfect vertical chute but not travel through a horizontal one. | 2010-09-21 13:51:00 Author: Festerd_Jester Posts: 53 |
| sorry for double posting ive done a little more super jump testing. all the haters will erm... hate? this. the sj is now easier. you can now get 2 to 3 blocks higher than in LBP1. HOWEVER the main issue that needs addressing here is this : The 2 block safe zone has gone. regardless of what many of you seem to think about the "pros" this is NOT a technique. its a core gameplay mechanic that theyve changed. you can fit between 2 blocks, but if one or both sides include a hazard you can forget it. We NEED the head ducking mechanic for a few things. e.g moving pillar tunnels. precision jumping into or out of obstacles. jetpack tunnels. water use etc. i cant really stress the importance of this enough. its NEEDED across ALL of LBP2 - unlike some "glitches" which are needed for a few levels which fewer people can do. | 2010-09-21 16:00:00 Author: Festerd_Jester Posts: 53 |
| the main issue that needs addressing here is this : The 2 block safe zone has gone. regardless of what many of you seem to think about the "pros" this is NOT a technique. its a core gameplay mechanic that theyve changed. you can fit between 2 blocks, but if one or both sides include a hazard you can forget it. We NEED the head ducking mechanic for a few things. e.g moving pillar tunnels. precision jumping into or out of obstacles. jetpack tunnels. water use etc. i cant really stress the importance of this enough. its NEEDED across ALL of LBP2 - unlike some "glitches" which are needed for a few levels which fewer people can do. Still, if this thing has something to do with LBP2's core physics engine regarding how sackboy works, they may not have a choice even if we think it is "NEEDED". No matter how much we need anything in this game, it is still MM's game and not ours. And although if you think it is needed, I will leave that to you, however I can think of other things that I would say are far more needed. Such as this. (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=34623-Profile-saved-variables-and-why-LBP2-needs-them.) Know that MM already has a bazilion things to work on, so don't let's go all rage if something isn't as we expect, or is not added. Personally, I could use a video recording feature, but MM said the don't have the time for that. /possibility of slight off-topic content I suggest you *nicely* submit it as a bug report to MM, and state why. Also, I suggest you make sure of proper grammar and spelling. | 2010-09-21 16:19:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578 |
| so you can also go moan to your nerd friends too. fool. And you can go and moan to your "pro" friends | 2010-09-21 16:49:00 Author: Alec Posts: 3871 |
| i know becAuse im good at lbp. creating or playing. my levels are well liked by the pro community and i know about 20 pro players on my friend list WILL NOT BE PLEASED!!! MM LISTEN TO US!!! no one on lbp has dedicated the amount of time and energy spent (usually in frustration) as the experts. we strive to play and complete hard levels. we dont like easy levels! ive been playing the beta and testing the "oh so important" backwards compatibilty and no, it isnt. thankyou for posting this thread. SORT IT!!!! Me playing devils advocate for a moment: Okay then Mr. Now what you have done here is to create a sub group of players (which you have elected yourself part of) , who declare themselves better than the average player. nice. also telling them to SORT IT!!!! is not going to make it happen any quicker back to normal [replying to OP] And, this IS a beta. y'no? Just send your complaint through the survey and I'm sure they'll fix it; theres just no use in making complaint threads. everyone- I wouldn't get involved | 2010-09-21 16:58:00 Author: flamingemu  Posts: 1872 |
| lol. why do you people clog up a perfectly valid thread with off topic avoidances and poisoned little verbal darts. if you dont care, post somewhere on something that you do care about. oh wait. im probably being naive. you do care - about being negatively critical. you people are the bane of this planet. just disagreeing for the sake of it. **** you childish and pointless committee. were trying to resolve our problems and you cant accept that we have preferences that exceed your own. and moaning to my pro friends was the only way to make this issue public. no one would care if i told people like you. | 2010-09-21 17:00:00 Author: Festerd_Jester Posts: 53 |
| if youd even bothered to read my previous post you wouldnt be correcting me. ego? HA! youre pulling me up on that? somehow its your ego that made you post - hastily, on correcting me you idiot. i said that main issue is the two block rule. Which, by the way, is NOT a glitch. its imperative to thtousands of levels functionality. so you can also go moan to your nerd friends too. fool. Again, due to possible physics engine changes, the addition of sackbots (which mimic sackboy, but are an object), and multiple other things, even though I see no reason it should not be the same as it was, it could have been a nessisary change. We do not know the way the engine works, or as to how it's coded, so this argument should end here. Again, please don't let's rage at MM if the game isn't 100% perfect. No game is. If you see it as a problem, please right a formal, nice, and especially objective bug report to MM explaining the full details of the situation. I rest my case. Thanks. | 2010-09-21 17:02:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578 |
| Did I ever say I didn't care? no I didn't. In fact I do care about your levels but if they don't work in LBP2 just put in the good ol' LBP1 disc in your ps3 and play them. | 2010-09-21 17:04:00 Author: Alec Posts: 3871 |
| If you'd even bothered to read my previous post, you wouldn't be correcting me. Ego? Ha! You're pulling me up on that? Somehow it's your ego that made you post hastily on correcting me, you idiot. I said that main issue is the two block rule. Which, by the way, is NOT a glitch. It's imperative to a few hundred level's functionality. So you can also go have fun on normal levels whilst I complain. I was going to bold changes but there were too many. I did this because you double posted and wrote a very harsh comment. On topic: If the 'pro levels' do not work on LBP2 simply play them on LBP1. Whilst waiting for 'pro levels' on LBP2 to start showing up. | 2010-09-21 17:05:00 Author: Jedi_1993  Posts: 1518 |
| flamingemu. you are a joke. i elected myself? ask any pro player. im held in quite high regard around them. you wouldn't and cannot understand something that has been my lifestyle for 20 years. from alex the kidd to LBP. ive played and mastered them all. | 2010-09-21 17:05:00 Author: Festerd_Jester Posts: 53 |
| flamingemu. you are a joke. i elected myself? ask any pro player. im held in quite high regard around them. you wouldn't and cannot understand something that has been my lifestyle for 20 years. from alex the kidd to LBP. ive played and mastered them all. psssst. LBP hasn't been out for 20 years so uhmmm. [to OP] why don't you PM spaff, he's online at the moment and im sure he'll appreciate your formal and polite questions. | 2010-09-21 17:07:00 Author: flamingemu Posts: 1872 |
| jedi. im one of the people who has set the boundaries of pro levels. so waiting for them to just turn up would be nothing short of futile. | 2010-09-21 17:09:00 Author: Festerd_Jester Posts: 53 |
| Not going anywhere good beyond where we are now. Locked. Youre an idiot if you think i give a FF what my grammars like. It doesnt matter you slimy little turd. Im addressing an issue we "pros" find terrible. You dont understand, so stop with your overly critical comments you big spoilt child. Go moan to your *********g nerd friends you fool Your failure to listen to rtm when he instructed everyone to tone down the unneeded aggression has earned you an infraction. I would advise everyone else to avoid similar fates in other threads. | 2010-09-21 17:11:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| Just read through the deleted posts and ... wow. Just... wow. And to think I was trying to do y'all a favour here (last time I do something like that, I assure you). This is the reason the "professional" LBP community doesn't get taken seriously around here - because every time the subject comes up, you act like this... I'm sure it's not fair to tar the entire sub-community with the same brush, but what exactly are we supposed to think when y'all act like this every single time... Take it to gameFAQs next time man, I'm sure you'd fit right in there | 2010-09-21 20:15:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
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