Home    LittleBigPlanet 2 - 3 - Vita - Karting    LittleBigPlanet 2    [LBP2] Suggestions
#1

Profile saved variables, and why LBP2 needs them. {Updated}

Archive: 76 posts

NOTE: THIS IS A SUGGESTION, TO OUR CURRENT KNOWLEDGE THIS IS NON-EXISTANT.

{Update is colored Teal.}


Let me first say what this thread means simplified: "Why LBP2 needs in-level saving".

Right. Why do we need it?
To make real *games*. Not just mini, or one-sitting, games.

Simply because long-term games, such as RPG's and sometimes RTS's often take too long to play in one sitting, or they are too large to fit in one level, and therefore need to be linked. Without this, how will one make a proper scope RPG? since LBP2 advertised that you will be able to make full games with its tools, this certainly needs to be included, either in retail game, or DLC.


What I mean by profile saved variables: (PSV as short)

I mean a Non-physical (aka switch/logic) object, that saves its value to your profile; below are some options that would be best to include to make this object encompass all saving needs: (Note, your variable only affects you and is saved in your profile)

Identifier name: A name that identifies the Variable object so that you can separate your variables from one another or, have multiple of the same Variable, triggered by multiple things, or in different levels. (text imput)

Interaction: Defines what other Variables it can interact with (presuming the variables have the same name): the settings would be: Local, Linked, Key, Global.
(Local: Only can interact with other variables within the level wherein it is placed) (Linked: Only can interact with Variables in any levels linked to the one wherein it is placed) (Key: Only can interact if the levels are linked via keys.) (Global: Can interact with any Variable from any level so long as it has the same name) (Multiple-select)

Storage: Defines what type of data is stored, and how many inputs/outputs are on the object: the settings would be: 0/1(or ON/OFF) or Defined range:0 - 2<>100 (you can select how many outputs and value range) and Speed (0-100).
0/1(ON/OFF): Has two inputs: both overrides the current selection, and one changes the value to 0, and the other to 1. And one output, which can output ON/OFF value (0/1).

Defined range: Would have three inputs: Add 1, minus 1, and override to a set value. The outputs would be the number of values you select can be stored) (speed would be similar, but with one output: speed)

*/
{New!} Multiplayer options:

Now just the above options could run into some difficulty regarding multiple players; therefore these options would be very helpful, or even necessary.

Loads from/Saves to: This option would be used to select who the specific variable loads from (or saves to, it would go both ways) when there are multiple players (multiple being, multiple PSN accounts online, not local multiplayer): The options would be: Host, Player1/2/3/4, Highest, Lowest, and Average.
(Host: simply loads from/saves to the profile of the host of the game session.) (Player1/2/3/4: loads/saves the variable from the specified player's profile.) (Highest: loads/saves the variable to whoever has the last highest variable) (Lowest: the exact reverse of "Highest") (Average: loads the value equivalent to the average of all the game session's player's profiles: has a sub option: Save to all, or save to none)
Default would be "Host".
/*


How would it work?

Example:

Your making an RPG-type game, and you want to save that PlayerX has ItemX: When they gain ItemX, you trigger the ON/OFF variable to ON; which saves to the player's profile. And you set the Variable to "linked" so that it works across your linked-multi-level-RPG.

Say they have to "brb" for supper: they can leave, and when they re-enter the level the Variable Object is read, and it triggers an emitter to give you ItemX.

When you enter the next level via the level-linking-patch, the Variable reads the data on your profile, and, if it sees "ON", it emitts ItemX for you.

Managing your profile saved variables:

To manage these, there would be a sub-menu under the "start" button's menu, with an option to manage variables listed by the Creator that made them, or the Level they were used in, where you can: view all the saved variables you have, "heart" them (to prevent them ever being deleted due to an overload of variables) and easily multi-delete unwanted ones.
There would also an option to either: Accept all variables and save them, save no variables, or have a popup after each level if you would like to permanently keep the variables or not (during this mode, the variables are stored temporarily until you shut down the game, and you can make them perm even if you accidentally said "no" by going to the "start" menu and selecting to save it.

The default would be either "accept" or "popup", I'm not sure which would be best as the default.


[I]That is all. Discuss.

~Fishrock123		2010-09-01 05:45:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

Beautiful concept you got there But why not just save the level exactly how it is when you leave and then when the player returns they are in the exact same position and status that they were when they left. You should have a "clear memory" option too in the menu before you enter a lvl/game. I love you idea though. It seems to be much more polished and thought out. Way more practical 2010-09-01 06:00:00

Author:
lyrradXOX
Posts: 285

Yep, excellent... and veeery demotivational and confusing for some... and an excellent tool for spamming others' PS3's...2010-09-01 06:03:00

Author:
Unknown User

I believe the suggestion is actually existant actually, I think they called it cookie switch or something like that, not sure...
*goes look for link*


Or do you mean what you're suggesting is non-existant in LBP2? 		2010-09-01 07:09:00

Author:
Silverleon
Posts: 6707

The cookie switch is completly different, and as far as we know it's not in the game yet.2010-09-01 14:07:00

Author:
Bluetoes1
Posts: 98

As far as I know, the cookie switch was just an idea... prove me wrong, I'd like it 2010-09-01 14:25:00

Author:
Unknown User

Did somebody say cookiez!

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/2000067174645735152_rs.jpg

Yeah... I think this would be a great feature, but this is already possible using one sticker. I know it's not the best way but Habster created a save-game level, it is on his moon.

A cookie switch, that saves cookies would be one of my favorite new features in the game. If they add it of course! 		2010-09-01 14:30:00

Author:
tanrockstan34
Posts: 1076

Yeah... I think this would be a great feature, but this is already possible using one sticker. I know it's not the best way but Habster created a save-game level, it is on his moon.

Not really... This is not possible without causing hassle for the player.

This is LBP2. not LBP1. If they want people to be able to make "games", such an object is vital.
(By "games" I mean something your going to spend up to several days playing.)



I will answer the other questions later - going out of town for a few days, should have internet tho.		2010-09-01 14:55:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

If they want people to be able to make games, such an object is vital.

Not at all. You can easily make many different of games without needing to retain state across multiple playing sessions, or being able to transfer data from one level to another.

I'm not saying that it's not a useful tool, merely that this commonly held view I've seen around the forums, that basically boils down to: "they said we can make games, it's not possible to make games without this, therefore they were lying so we must have this" is a semantic argument that doesn't really hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

It is a significant limiting factor, but a video games thrived for many a year before save game functionality was the norm.		2010-09-01 15:13:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Yeah, I'd love this idea. And it could be used for much more than saving level states.

And Sorry, I just had to do it:

input* not imput		2010-09-01 15:23:00

Author:
edster962
Posts: 170

How about a new copy feature, copy what u currently have in the game/level and put it on your moon,
Think of it like the copy button but it desnt copy the begining, it copys whatever u had.		2010-09-01 22:57:00

Author:
Unknown User

Beautiful concept you got there But why not just save the level exactly how it is when you leave and then when the player returns they are in the exact same position and status that they were when they left. You should have a "clear memory" option too in the menu before you enter a lvl/game. I love you idea though. It seems to be much more polished and thought out. Way more practical

Thanks!

Saving an "image" of the level would be very memory/HDD consuming, not to mention it could have long load times. (At least, I would think?)

I forgot to add my stuff for my ideas for clearing the memory.


Yep, excellent... and veeery demotivational and confusing for some... and an excellent tool for spamming others' PS3's...

Again, sorry I forgot to add my ideas on memory (aka profile) clearing. Also note that simple saved on/off variables would take up very low memory.


Not at all. You can easily make many different of games without needing to retain state across multiple playing sessions, or being able to transfer data from one level to another.

I'm not saying that it's not a useful tool, merely that this commonly held view I've seen around the forums, that basically boils down to: "they said we can make games, it's not possible to make games without this, therefore they were lying so we must have this" is a semantic argument that doesn't really hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

It is a significant limiting factor, but a video games thrived for many a year before save game functionality was the norm.

True I suppose, but all the "games" MM has showed us so far look alot more like what we now call "mini-games" and less of something your going to spend possibly several days playing. Also I'm pretty sure I specified "games" as the ones you would spend a *long* time playing in the OP.


How about a new copy feature, copy what u currently have in the game/level and put it on your moon,
Think of it like the copy button but it desnt copy the begining, it copys whatever u had.

Does.... this even have anything to do with my thread?



Also I have now updated the OP with PSV Management.		2010-09-03 04:25:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

NO!!! This is a horrible idea!!! ............................................. .................................2010-09-03 04:53:00

Author:
Amigps
Posts: 564

oh god YES

Saved variables are pretty much the most useful thing EVER. Seriously, without them games wouldn't be games.		2010-09-03 05:28:00

Author:
Tyler
Posts: 663

I say! Oh My! Indeed! Jolly Good Show! wait what were we talking about again?

oh yea your variables idea. Ya'know i was just thinking about his a few days before your post. it was kinda freaky but real cool. I'm all for that Idea!		2010-09-03 06:54:00

Author:
CheesyDemon
Posts: 170

no its not even going to work. Mm won't do it. Something else negative. Don't bother.

I would need this though. But they probably found it problematic for the average user. You would need to jump back and forward on the levels to see if your code or whatever worked. Right now, a simple sticker switch to emulates some sort "saving" is what is probably going to happen. It isn't the best solution but it works good enough.		2010-09-03 07:49:00

Author:
PPp_Killer
Posts: 449

I also want some sort of global variable system.2010-09-03 07:53:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

Actually, progressive saves are entirely possible with the currently known tools in LBP2.
The "Emails from the molecule" shows a design for dynamic (saved) inputs.

It would take some logic to work out (all depends on the variables of the game in question);
But could easily be done in the old skool "Save Code" system... where at the end of the section/level/Save point it gives you a code, that you could then enter into a "load point" at the start of a level - and all game progress could be continued.

This could also give the possibility of 'cheat codes' for your level aswell.

The tools are already in your hands... you just need to figure out how to use them 		2010-09-03 13:19:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Yes but thats not what we wan't. I hated having to get a paper with pen to write down those codes, and someone could easily give their code if they got to the end. Some creators wouldn't want that. Thats why this variable system is the only way to save and comeback to the same spot.2010-09-03 14:59:00

Author:
CheesyDemon
Posts: 170

Yes but thats not what we wan't. I hated having to get a paper with pen to write down those codes, and someone could easily give their code if they got to the end. Some creators wouldn't want that. Thats why this variable system is the only way to save and comeback to the same spot.

I still think you aren't giving the tools enough credit.

Depending on the amount of variables - it could be that rather than a code, it generates a sticker that you can then use to load up your save... there are logical ways around this problem that use the existing tools, rather than MM needing to add anything new.

Not saying it wouldn;t be welcome, just don't think it's 100% necessary		2010-09-03 15:03:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

I still think you aren't giving the tools enough credit.

I think you may be overestimating the current tools, tbh:


it could be that rather than a code, it generates a sticker that you can then use to load up your save...

Generates a sticker??? Where did you get that concept from?		2010-09-03 15:08:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

I think you may be overestimating the current tools, tbh:



Generates a sticker??? Where did you get that concept from?

Generates the wrong word... "Hands you a sticker" is more like it.
Again, depending on the amount of variables - you have a bank of stickers based on the game progress. and it hands you what-ever sticker you have currently progressed to when you hit "save".
Stick this to a "Load Game" point and it can configure the current game to those variables.

(This would work as a replacement to the OPs 'variable' input - you obtain itemX and reach PlatformZ having answered "Yes" to Question1 on your first playthrough - when you hit "save" it emits the sticker for "ItemX/PlatformZ/Q1-Yes" - at the start of the level you could have a "load Game" post to stick this "iXpZq1Y" sticker to - and it'll give you itemX - spawn you at PlatformZ - and Question1 is answered "Yes"; obviously, the more variables you have, the more stickers you'd require) --- you could even do this in LBP1 if you could be bothered making the logic for it.

This is just an alternative to the Code system that I just hip-fired - but it could feasibly work.

I can see it in my minds eye - if you care to pop inside & take a look

(of course the code system would be a much easier way - and wouldn't require a bank of stickers - I'm just bluesky thinking - if people want to swap codes fair enough, they are only cheating themselves out of a gameplay experience)


Still think I'm over-estimating?		2010-09-03 15:10:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Loading with stickers... it just feels so un-elegant compared to this... not to mention how many stickers you'll end up having after completing 13/15ths of 9 epic sagas?
(=MANY)

And, I still don't understand why do I think I understand everything in that post...

...why don't we just have logic objects that, when saved, remember what type and strength of signal they were receiving, and after loading, would input that same signal? (Think of it as any logic object LBP2 has: a wire goes in, wires go out. Coupled with the ever-so-wonderfu lAND switch, I think this does the job, still, implements galore might happen...)		2010-09-03 16:30:00

Author:
Unknown User

Like I said earlier which will fix the problem but noone understood I guess.

The ability to copy whatever happened in the level while ur playing to your moon.
Normally it copys since the start but if you can copy whenever your playing and it saves whatever activated like switches, player location etc and copy that to your moon so you can now play it from where you left off and it goes onto your PS3 memory, doesnt effect the servers.		2010-09-03 16:33:00

Author:
Unknown User

I'd make a Code input system kind of like that one guy said,
but luckily for me even my heavily story based level series won't be needing a save option,
but i still would love one and could find good uses for it. :3 *mew

@TheChannel
to add to that i'd love a option to be able to save any online level i play on to my PS3
so i can play them offline for when i need to, but make it so downloaded levels
can't be edited or can be reuploaded to stop level stealing. ;3		2010-09-03 16:40:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

Loading with stickers... it just feels so un-elegant compared to this... not to mention how many stickers you'll end up having after completing 13/15ths of 9 epic sagas?
(=MANY)

Tish, piffle & tosh.
You Rejected the code system - because you don't want to write things down;
You rejected the sticker system - because it's unelegant (???)

I take it it's your way or no way then?

The point is - you can do what you request right now - with the tools available to you in LBP1.

& You'd only have as many stickers as you have game saves - do you keep all of your old game saves or do you delete them?
You only need the 1 "current" game save - the rest would be redundant.
And this is only for those games that require a continuous save.

I could foresee see alot of problems with a "Global Variable" if you had already triggered a variable called "variable1" in one persons game - and then go into someone elses game fresh and trigger "variable1" automatically from the global variable - even though you've never played their game before - it just happens that the global variables have the same naming convention.		2010-09-03 16:45:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

@fumetsusozo
If you save the level to the moon you can play it offline.
Does noone know what I mean? >.<
Just imagine you copy a level like in LBP1 but you can now do it in game and instead of when u play it again starting at the begining it now starts you off where you left.		2010-09-03 16:55:00

Author:
Unknown User

Of course, having a "Save Level Progress - Yes/No" prompt appear if you quit a level - then when you restart that same level get the option to "Load Level Progress - Yes/No" - with the progress saved to your profile - would eliminate the need for any variables - or any pfaffing around with local/global variable objects or complex variable input stores. (Quick Save)
You would literally just be dumped back into the level - exactly where you left off - with even any minute changes (for object positions etc that you made) remaining.

This wouldn't be any good for the "Multiple Level" scenario outlined in the OP's post though. (the whole reason for a continuous save).

& There would need to be a cap on the amount of saves you could have though - with 3million+ levels - that could get to be quite a large profile folder.

However, the code or sticker system would work across multiple levels.		2010-09-03 17:05:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

(something about code-saving)

This could also give the possibility of 'cheat codes' for your level aswell.

The tools are already in your hands... you just need to figure out how to use them

Sounds alot like LBP1, doesn't it? C'mon. This is LBP2. I don't want to waste 3 mins entering some silly code.

Also, cheat codes are very different from level saves.




(Something about sticker-saving)

Still think I'm over-estimating?

Yes. I don't want to open my popit and find the sticker and then sticker something. Is your mind stuck in LBP1?


I could foresee see alot of problems with a "Global Variable" if you had already triggered a variable called "variable1" in one persons game - and then go into someone elses game fresh and trigger "variable1" automatically from the global variable - even though you've never played their game before - it just happens that the global variables have the same naming convention.

Please read my OP very carefully.

I suggested an option to have the variable either: Local, Linked, Key, (or) Global.

Want just your one level to have its own variables? Local it is.

Want a multi-level Saga to have its own inter-level variables? Linked or Key it is.

Want to do some crazy weird collective huge community project? Use Global with a Complex Name.


So.. tell me what is wrong again?



Of course, having a "Save Level Progress - Yes/No" prompt appear if you quit a level - then when you restart that same level get the option to "Load Level Progress - Yes/No"- would eliminate the need for any variables - or any pfaffing around with local/global variable objects.

Yeah, but this would take up alot of HDD/Memory. And, my/our Variables method *is* more versitile.		2010-09-03 17:06:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

@ macnme:
So in your opinion, you would like to have an newly emitted normal Checkpoint every time you die instead of having an infinite-live one?

If an Epic Saga creator doesn't name the magical stickers, you do end up with a load of stickers.

?nd maybe our way is tha best 		2010-09-03 17:07:00

Author:
Unknown User

There would need to be a cap on the amount of saves you could have though - with 3million+ levels - that could get to be quite a large profile folder.

The Saved Variables would take up very low HDD compared to any other method, even stickers.

Each variable shouldn't have to take up more than about 3kb (I think?).

Each level you have on your moon is some 300-400+ (calculated from the fact that PSP levels take up a minimum of 250KB each.)

And, if you think some one is spamming your variables, you can just delete theirs...		2010-09-03 17:18:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

& There would need to be a cap on the amount of saves you could have though - with 3million+ levels - that could get to be quite a large profile folder.

However, the code or sticker system would work across multiple levels.
I was thinking a Cap of 10 levels,
but really when i think about it thats not needed as you can back up levels as it is
and we can do it as much as we want as long you got HDD room for it,
but then again im talking about saving levels to play whenever you want to,

what your talking about just being able to quit and next time you play the same level again
you could be back where you last left off if you want to, and it would not take up HDD room
it be a code linking to are online stuff, kind of like how it remambers what levels you have played hearted etc,
but that is not data on your PS3 it self. *mew		2010-09-03 17:24:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

@Macnme
I don't know why you are not seeing this idea as acceptable. Why does this not seam good to you?		2010-09-04 02:16:00

Author:
CheesyDemon
Posts: 170

Don't get me wrong, I can see how it'd be usefull.
But I can also see how it can be done without it.		2010-09-04 08:07:00

Author:
Macnme
Posts: 1970

Don't get me wrong, I can see how it'd be usefull.
But I can also see how it can be done without it.

Oh it can be done without. In LBP1 ways and a hasstle to the player. 		2010-09-04 15:49:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

It would work like this? RPG: Player gets pickaxe. When that happens cookie gets saved. Player moves to the left and ends up on 35(A town of some sort). Saves position(or go to save block)

This the begining: Check if pickaxe is there...YES--emite pickaxe into position. check if hatchet is there...NO--Dont emite hatchet. check if player is in potsition 35(a town of some sort)...YES--Move Player to town.		2010-09-04 19:46:00

Author:
CheesyDemon
Posts: 170

It would work like this? RPG: Player gets pickaxe. When that happens cookie gets saved. Player moves to the left and ends up on 35(A town of some sort). Saves position(or go to save block)

This the begining: Check if pickaxe is there...YES--emite pickaxe into position. check if hatchet is there...NO--Dont emite hatchet. check if player is in potsition 35(a town of some sort)...YES--Move Player to town.

Basically yes, though what you are describing is the high level view of what a creator might do with these tools.		2010-09-05 04:10:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Oh ok thanks rtm! btw does rtm stand for anything or no?2010-09-05 23:58:00

Author:
CheesyDemon
Posts: 170

Oh ok thanks rtm! btw does rtm stand for anything or no?

His name. Richard T. M.		2010-09-06 02:41:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

I wish there were cookie switches. Then the idea I had in this thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=32322-LittleBIGPlanet-Card-Game) would actually work.2010-09-06 03:07:00

Author:
Stoicrow
Posts: 276

I just made a critical update to this thread: added this section on multiplayer options that would be needed to give this idea it's best usefulness:

*/
{New!} Multiplayer options:

Now just the above options could run into some difficulty regarding multiple players; therefore these options would be very helpful, or even necessary.

Loads from/Saves to: This option would be used to select who the specific variable loads from (or saves to, it would go both ways) when there are multiple players (multiple being, multiple PSN accounts online, not local multiplayer): The options would be: Host, Player1/2/3/4, Highest, Lowest, and Average.
(Host: simply loads from/saves to the profile of the host of the game session.) (Player1/2/3/4: loads/saves the variable from the specified player's profile.) (Highest: loads/saves the variable to whoever has the last highest variable) (Lowest: the exact reverse of "Highest") (Average: loads the value equivalent to the average of all the game session's player's profiles: has a sub option: Save to all, or save to none)
Default would be "Host".
/*		2010-10-06 18:50:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

Thee would be need some limits per level, or else player profile might be full of trash if you enter to wrong level. Also we don't know if Sony rules for developer how to use Game Data space restricts something2010-10-06 22:22:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

This is a fantastic idea and I came up with something like this myself. I think for a start we could all just use passwords and a piece of paper Remember old-skool days? No memory cards back then, you had to write down the password or start from scratch each time. It was fine for 20 years, even into the PS1 era.2010-10-07 16:31:00

Author:
thor
Posts: 388

Thee would be need some limits per level, or else player profile might be full of trash if you enter to wrong level. Also we don't know if Sony rules for developer how to use Game Data space restricts something

True.... But as I said, with My PSV management option i don't think it would be a big deal. Also, each variable would take up like.. Only a few kb's..


I think for a start we could all just use passwords and a piece of paper Remember old-skool days? No memory cards back then, you had to write down the password or start from scratch each time. It was fine for 20 years, even into the PS1 era.

Aka LBP1?


I'm talking LBP2 mate. 		2010-10-07 17:36:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

I have to say, I don't think I'd create with it, just due to personal preference (not the idea, genrally things that would benifit from it I don't particualy want to make), but I still want it to play levels. And RPG could be hard in one sitting, especially with all the, well, variables.2010-10-07 18:09:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893

And RPG could be hard in one sitting, especially with all the, well, variables.

Eh, what? You as the player don't need to mess much with the variables, except to delete them if you want to.


I don't understand, lol.		2010-10-07 18:19:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

Eh, what? You as the player don't need to mess much with the variables, except to delete them if you want to.


I don't understand, lol.

I ment if the player does this, or makes this desision, or uses that item etc.

I probably didn't word it very well 		2010-10-07 18:22:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893

Eh, what? You as the player don't need to mess much with the variables, except to delete them if you want to.


I don't understand, lol.

I think he means it would be hard to complete an RPG in one sitting without using "profile saved variables" with all the NON-saved variables that you have in a typical RPG.		2010-10-07 21:20:00

Author:
thor
Posts: 388

I think he means it would be hard to complete an RPG in one sitting without using "profile saved variables" with all the NON-saved variables that you have in a typical RPG.

Like stickers that you have to take out of your pop it and place in the correct spot? Sounds like LBP1 style to me.


Anyways, yeah, thanks, that makes more sense.		2010-10-07 21:24:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

This is a fantastic idea and I came up with something like this myself. I think for a start we could all just use passwords and a piece of paper Remember old-skool days? No memory cards back then, you had to write down the password or start from scratch each time. It was fine for 20 years, even into the PS1 era.

This. It cannot be that hard to create the systems for this in LBP2 and with passcodes we can encrypt as many bits of data as we need. Granted, people can "cheat" or whatever, but I think this would be more versatile and stable than the score hack.

I was actually gonna come in here to post that lol beat me to the punch.		2010-10-07 21:46:00

Author:
Foofles
Posts: 2278

So you actually want the player to sit there, write a code down, and enter it in in the next level? You *want* to do that? .....

I know i Don't =P

Seems like Rtm's thing is all we'll have to use,
unless someone makes all their levels in one level useing emitters(thankfully we can do that now)
But sadly there is still no fix for when a person is done playing LBP fot that time and quits,
then wants to start back where he left off but can't~ :/ *mew		2010-10-07 22:15:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

So you actually want the player to sit there, write a code down, and enter it in in the next level? You *want* to do that? .....

I know i Don't =P

Seems like Rtm's thing is all we'll have to use,
unless someone makes all their levels in one level useing emitters(thankfully we can do that now)
But sadly there is still no fix for when a person is done playing LBP fot that time and quits,
then wants to start back where he left off but can't~ :/ *mew

Exactly. All we have to work with are hacks, and passcodes have been used before we had game saves for this exact purpose.

It's not like it has to be a long code, It can even be 1 or a couple of characters that gets translated to a pattern of bits, not too huge a deal considering what's gained.		2010-10-08 12:44:00

Author:
Foofles
Posts: 2278

Oh, i know what passcodes you guys talking about, same as Warcraft 3 map makes workaround to save data ^^ yea i'ts possible, but needs tricky security to avoid abusers to simply enter data by themselfs, "encrypting" data as people said above. Mixing number bits would be easiest way to do so (but easier to break)2010-10-08 14:12:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

Why does it matter if people can cheat, they do anyway Make a whole level with the layer glitch, then moan that someone has taken advantage of your crap password system. Define irony Anyway you can keep changing the setup, although that might annoy some people who were about to finish the game

And why do you need to write down passwords? Just take a picture of it You could have it set so the password is shown and then you strike a pose...click click, you don't even need to find a pen 		2010-10-08 16:02:00

Author:
ballisticola
Posts: 157

So you actually want the player to sit there, write a code down, and enter it in in the next level? You *want* to do that? .....

Oh god no! That reminds me of the dark days when I was 6-7 on my GBA 		2010-10-08 16:12:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893

I know i Don't =P

Seems like Rtm's thing is all we'll have to use,
unless someone makes all their levels in one level useing emitters(thankfully we can do that now)
But sadly there is still no fix for when a person is done playing LBP fot that time and quits,
then wants to start back where he left off but can't~ :/ *mew

What is rtm's thing exactly?

Am I correct in saying that it is a way to transmit data using score switches? (Does your score carry over from level to level with level links?) If this is the case it can still only cope with 20 bits of data (well just under) and only works with level links and not for saving data permanently.


Guys, If your here to find any LBP1-esquire code entering stuff then, well, thats not what this thread is about.


This thread is abut this being the next gen game. We had to enter in stuff in LBP1. But, I'm sick of doing it, and almost no-one I know actually likes to do it.

Also it is a SUGGESTION thread.


-_-

Heck. We don't need microchips. Lets stay with LBP1 logic, since we optimize it and are all familiar with it anyways.

Why invent a new lighting engine? it was fine the way it was.

You know what? We don't need DCS's. Grab sensors are just fine.


You gedit now? >_>


/Angry rockfish

Well I just think that it would be a lot easier to code a password system for LBP2 - you could even use proper encryption techniques. But anyway I AGREED that it was a good idea I was just proposing a realistic alternative if this is not implemented.		2010-10-08 16:32:00

Author:
thor
Posts: 388

lol someone got a little tickled did they?

The point of a forums is to discuss things and give input and ideas, I'd want persistent variables as much as you do. But like in LBP1, there's no harm in coming up with hacks to get around any shortcomings that might be present until if/when a better method becomes usable.

Score sensors, passcodes, they're all just hacks and have their +s and -s. I've seen many methods of transferring the data between levels using scores and I think I wrapped my head around a way to make sure it's stable and you can get the exact value you want. But it still has a major disadvantage of needing one sitting.

Passcodes are made easier in LBP2, you can even use a short series of controllinator input(s) to punch it in or a basic text/symbol HUD instead of the archaic ways in LBP1. It may imply a little overhead on the player's part, but he wouldn't have to play an entire level series in one shot.

Of course both are just hacks, and it would be nice if variable data could save to a specific section in your popit, couldn't take up anymore space than a Key.		2010-10-08 17:40:00

Author:
Foofles
Posts: 2278

lol someone got a little tickled did they?

Yes, I did infact.


The point of a forums is to discuss things and give input and ideas, I'd want persistent variables as much as you do. But like in LBP1, there's no harm in coming up with hacks to get around any shortcomings that might be present until if/when a better method becomes usable.

Right. I have deleted my previous post as it was unnecessary; however, wouldn't this discussion be more fitting in it's own thread?		2010-10-08 18:05:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

Alright, let's just discuss this persistent saved variable thing.

Like I said, I think it would make sense to fit in your goodies bag like keys do. And they'd probably take up less space than one and could be deleted, but then I guess we'd need be able to check if ( MyLevel'sKey) etc.

This seems like a massive thing to implement in the game though, since it'd be such an intrinsic part of the engine, that it would require tons of testing and re-testing of everything to make sure nothing else borked.

I guess paving the way to this we'd need proper flag / word functionality in the game although I can imagine a thousand different hacks for it.		2010-10-08 18:50:00

Author:
Foofles
Posts: 2278

Even the score method has flaw(s)... if the player dies, he loses score... meaning that you have to work a thingie that returns your score to what it was... and then make it ignore any take-aways made by your system... which doesn't feel like too hard to make, but still.

It *can* get very complex though if the system needs to keep track of the real score, which would be given in the end of the chain.

If I only got Betaz :tophat:		2010-10-08 20:07:00

Author:
Unknown User

Alright, let's just discuss this persistent saved variable thing.

Like I said, I think it would make sense to fit in your goodies bag like keys do. And they'd probably take up less space than one and could be deleted, but then I guess we'd need be able to check if ( MyLevel'sKey) etc.

This seems like a massive thing to implement in the game though, since it'd be such an intrinsic part of the engine, that it would require tons of testing and re-testing of everything to make sure nothing else borked.


Not sure. As it wouldn't interact with much, preventing overflow of data would be the main thing, I think.


Even the score method has flaw(s)... if the player dies, he loses score... meaning that you have to work a thingie that returns your score to what it was... and then make it ignore any take-aways made by your system... which doesn't feel like too hard to make, but still.

It *can* get very complex though if the system needs to keep track of the real score, which would be given in the end of the chain.

The only real way to use score IMO is just to use score as a sort of currency. And froget "real" score altogether.		2010-10-08 20:46:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

It would completely alter the size of the profile structure, which directly every subsystem that reads it. Thorough testing would have to be done to ensure everything else in the profile gets saved and read correctly, and that all levels would be able to read and write the saved variables.

Nothing in game development is ever as easy as just dropping in.		2010-10-08 21:13:00

Author:
Foofles
Posts: 2278

It would completely alter the size of the profile structure, which directly every subsystem that reads it. Thorough testing would have to be done to ensure everything else in the profile gets saved and read correctly, and that all levels would be able to read and write the saved variables.

Nothing in game development is ever as easy as just dropping in.


Obviously nothing is super easy, and I suppose this is true; But wouldn't it be similar to lots of other things? I mean, they made keys ages ago already. 		2010-10-08 22:15:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

It'd be similar but it's still a colossal undertaking, but who knows, maybe they're working on this behind the scenes or something like when they pulled LBP2 out of nowhere.2010-10-08 22:18:00

Author:
Foofles
Posts: 2278

Even the score method has flaw(s)... if the player dies, he loses score... meaning that you have to work a thingie that returns your score to what it was... and then make it ignore any take-aways made by your system... which doesn't feel like too hard to make, but still.

Well you don't need to apply values to the score all the time, you can do it right before level jump		2010-10-08 22:49:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

^^And plus most levels will be useing sackbots anyways... meaning you won't have to worry about loseing score from death,
unless dead sackbots take away score also? *mew		2010-10-09 08:49:00

Author:
Lord-Dreamerz
Posts: 4261

The only real way to use score IMO is just to use score as a sort of currency. And froget "real" score altogether.

Glad that rtm223 and upsilandre don't think likewise

Why should I forget the "real scores"? Just make a system that saves any action that should give you points, and in the end of the level when the score is nullified, activate those point-givers. Nothing seemingly hard...		2010-10-09 13:33:00

Author:
Unknown User

Yea but then you lose ability to transfer "real" score to linked level2010-10-09 13:58:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

The demo i have published preserves oth points (up to 10k) and 6 bits of data, upsilandre is transferring 13 bits of data with no points. I think my method works better if you want to preserve points, but i can only squeeze 12 bits total without points.

Either way, it depends what you need, more data or the added gameplay of points collection.

Regardless, the concept of persistence is a completely different thing altogether.

As for codes as a temporary workaround, i mentioned in the beta forums i think that encryption is waay ott for stopping players entering random codes. A technique known as cyclic redundancy is way simpler and more suited to this sort of thing. The specifics are something i won't go into here, but it's quite easy to impliment, compared to encryptiong, which is always a pain in the ****		2010-10-09 13:58:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

The demo i have published preserves oth points (up to 10k) and 6 bits of data, upsilandre is transferring 13 bits of data with no points. I think my method works better if you want to preserve points, but i can only squeeze 12 bits total without points.

Either way, it depends what you need, more data or the added gameplay of points collection.

Regardless, the concept of persistence is a completely different thing altogether.

As for codes as a temporary workaround, i mentioned in the beta forums i think that encryption is waay ott for stopping players entering random codes. A technique known as cyclic redundancy is way simpler and more suited to this sort of thing. The specifics are something i won't go into here, but it's quite easy to impliment, compared to encryptiong, which is always a pain in the ****

I was going to implement some kind of a hash function to provide a few letters on the end that prevent simply changing numbers. I presume this is the kind of thing you mean

Also, salting the raw data could always work to a certain degree to prevent "hacks".		2010-10-09 15:46:00

Author:
thor
Posts: 388

There's always gonna be a way around it, it just puts extra stress on the designer and user. Even if it would be as simple as sharing codes, there's a way around any passcode/phrase/number/character/whatever system.

I'm sure as time goes on and they see how people like to make these epic adventure sort of things, they'll try adding persistence into their engine.		2010-10-09 15:55:00

Author:
Foofles
Posts: 2278

Glad that rtm223 and upsilandre don't think likewise

Why should I forget the "real scores"? Just make a system that saves any action that should give you points, and in the end of the level when the score is nullified, activate those point-givers. Nothing seemingly hard...

I'm not sure how much thermo it uses and what exactly would be useful in transfering, aswell as how acurate it is.

Not really doubting anything, but as I haven't seen it, I don't know what its bonuses and disadvantages are. Guess if I get in the beta I'll see it this week.


Er, can it store 3 3-diget numbers, and read them in correct order?		2010-10-10 18:34:00

Author:
Fishrock123
Posts: 1578

Anybody remember how Mega Man used to "save" stuff? Well, it wasn't really a save feature, you had to put a code it, but i bet it could work here.

Simply put, you have a, oh say, 6x6 are of blocks. When you quit a level, youd be given a code to use. This code could then be put in the next time you play, and take you to where you left off. The player would have to keep a physical copy of the code, but its better than nothing i suppose.		2010-10-12 21:52:00

Author:
dr_murk
Posts: 239

@dr_murk, but we was talking about it in last page 2010-10-12 21:55:00

Author:
Shadowriver
Posts: 3991

...there's a way around any passcode/phrase/number/character/whatever system...

Then pm me lbp2 beta code plz 		2010-11-08 05:34:00

Author:
CheesyDemon
Posts: 170

Mind=Blown2011-02-06 21:12:00

Author:
Phazerz123
Posts: 440


LBPCentral Archive Statistics
Posts: 1077139    Threads: 69970    Members: 9661    Archive-Date: 2019-01-19

Datenschutz
Aus dem Archiv wurden alle persönlichen Daten wie Name, Anschrift, Email etc. - aber auch sämtliche Inhalte wie z.B. persönliche Nachrichten - entfernt.
Die Nutzung dieser Webseite erfolgt ohne Speicherung personenbezogener Daten. Es werden keinerlei Cookies, Logs, 3rd-Party-Plugins etc. verwendet.