Archive: 31 posts

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We all know that Basic LBP levels have 3 playable layers maximum and if we were to tinker with that it would ruin LBP1 levels I was wondering, why do we have 3 layers for a 4 player game? I though of a solution to this "issue" in the Tools bag there could be a numbered toggle (say; minimum 1 layer maximum 5 default 3) this would allow the LBP1 levels to remain unbroken but allow lbp2 levels to be a variety of layers.

2010-08-30 21:15:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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would be nice also more space to create

2010-08-30 21:24:00 Author: BlackThornDust Posts: 100

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That would make building so much easier, and so much more complicated at the same time. I'm all for it! I think the only down side to this would be that most creators would want to use the maximum amount of layers, and not all creators a very good, I think a lot more levels would be broken because there would be a ton more places to get stuck. For those of us that actually play test our levels though, this would be amazing.

2010-08-30 21:56:00 Author: Rottinghouse Posts: 143

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I like the idea but it does not sound possible without creating huge gobs of performance issues. If the entirety of a level was built in five layers, it would take up thermo space much faster, and also cause the frame rate to drop. I know what your going to say, "We have been using extra layers though for a while now and there are never these problems!" but with the amount of detail being put into the background layers not, there is not much complexity. With five layers, people would be more likely to create more detail and smaller objects.

2010-08-30 22:06:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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Nice Idea! I'm also a bit cautious wether it could be implemented without too high of an impact on performance... If it can, I'm all for it But even if 5 layers can not be implemented, the idea of limiting the number of active layers is great! Imaging wanting to use the 3rd layer (furthest from the screen) as a "background layer" in your level. Then you could sculp the layer in create, and then "lock it off" for play, so people couldn't get stuck in trees, crevices, or whatever background objects you built. This would be even more useful with 5 layers, as you could go into all of your old 3-layer LBP levels, pimp the 4th and 5th layer, and then lock 'em, so the level would still function as in LBP1.

2010-08-31 05:44:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob Posts: 605

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Nice Idea! I'm also a bit cautious wether it could be implemented without too high of an impact on performance... If it can, I'm all for it But even if 5 layers can not be implemented, the idea of limiting the number of active layers is great! Imaging wanting to use the 3rd layer (furthest from the screen) as a "background layer" in your level. Then you could sculp the layer in create, and then "lock it off" for play, so people couldn't get stuck in trees, crevices, or whatever background objects you built. This would be even more useful with 5 layers, as you could go into all of your old 3-layer LBP levels, pimp the 4th and 5th layer, and then lock 'em, so the level would still function as in LBP1. You could do that now with a big block of thin gas the keeps the player from switching layers.

2010-08-31 11:45:00 Author: Prince Pixelton Posts: 286

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You could do that now with a big block of thin gas the keeps the player from switching layers. Well you can't make gas thin as far as I know? I normally achieve a similar effect using a layer (thin or thick) of matter made invisible. Enabling "locking" of layers sure simplifies this process - assuming you want to lock a specific layer for the entire level...

2010-08-31 12:18:00 Author: Slaeden-Bob Posts: 605

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I really like this idea, I could use the 4th layer for many crazy visual styles.

2010-08-31 13:14:00 Author: Tawarf Posts: 457

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I'm afraid what the creating powerhouses would do with the 4th and 5th layer put in gameplay... puts 3-layer'd stuff in shame..

2010-08-31 13:52:00 Author: Unknown User

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Well you can't make gas thin as far as I know? You could (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=21137-Radiation-Hazard&p=368180&viewfull=1#post368180) make it but if you now try it will soon disappear. You can get it still from here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=29559-Garden-of-Goodies).

2010-08-31 16:57:00 Author: waD_Delma Posts: 282

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I seriously doubt this would happen. Alex did an interview, talking about how they came up with the 3 plane format, and it's really quite obvious. Blank slate syndrome is much harder to overcome when your canvas is bigger. Too much room and most people wouldn't get anything started, and the problem is, not too many people would use less. Admit it, how many single plane levels are there? besides people doing serious retro stuff, maybe a handful. So, when you say max of five, even if the default is three, you are saying there are five planes. Nobody is going to think, there's three, plus two. Just five. And five planes is a lot to fill. It can be daunting. Three planes can be a bit overwhelming at times, yes, constraining as well. But that's where we get creative and make a better level. Extra layers wouldn't add to the spirit of the game, it would just confuse the player, and demoralize the creator.

2010-08-31 17:55:00 Author: MobiusDT Posts: 89

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You could do that now with a big block of thin gas the keeps the player from switching layers. That would kill pretty much all ThecX users rendering unable to finish the level, no? Well you can't make gas thin as far as I know? I normally achieve a similar effect using a layer (thin or thick) of matter made invisible. Enabling "locking" of layers sure simplifies this process - assuming you want to lock a specific layer for the entire level... Thin Invisible gas is acheveable through a glitch, its quite possible indeed and used a lot by many users to block off users from being able to another layer where not wanted....unles you're a ThecX user, in which case it can kill you if you try.

2010-08-31 18:03:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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That would kill pretty much all ThecX users rendering unable to finish the level, no? Thin Invisible gas is acheveable through a glitch, its quite possible indeed and used a lot by many users to block off users from being able to another layer where not wanted....unles you're a ThecX user, in which case it can kill you if you try. Only theck gas will kill ThecXmen, thin gas has no effect on all players except it not allowing them to layer shift. Normal players can pass through theck gas without dying. It is currently unreproducible and would have to play Aya's Garden of Goodies to acquire some.

2010-08-31 20:55:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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Only theck gas will kill ThecXmen, thin gas has no effect on all players except it not allowing them to layer shift. Normal players can pass through theck gas without dying. It is currently unreproducible and would have to play Aya's Garden of Goodies to acquire some. Actually, if you were to make Thock gas, it would also kill "theckies"....

2010-08-31 21:08:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578

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A lot of good points about having 5 layers, especially the bit that MobiusDT pointed out from the Alex Evans interview. Maybe if they just let us create our own backgrounds then. I know there are a ton of creators that use the 3D layer glitch, but it's a pain to use and I don't use glitches (especially after reading about ThecXmen). Just give me a blank background with the option to shift all 3 (non-interactive) layers that I've built into it, and then let me build my stage in the foreground where I normally would.

2010-08-31 21:16:00 Author: Rottinghouse Posts: 143

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Actually, if you were to make Thock gas, it would also kill "theckies".... How is that even relevant to this thread? Custom backgrounds would be nice, but three layers in not that much compared to the layer glitch. With Comphy's tool, it make creating in the back/foreground very easy.

2010-08-31 21:36:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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How is that even relevant to this thread? Because you said this: Only theck gas will kill ThecXmen So.. umm... yeah.

2010-08-31 21:43:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578

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You are just veering this thread off-topic... Yes, thock gas has nothing to do with theck gas or killing players because it doesn't exist and never will.

2010-08-31 21:52:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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Limitations breed innovation. I don't think I have ever come across a situation where it required more than 3 layers for gameplay mechanics. Possibly a 4 player race? I vote "no thanks".

2010-08-31 21:54:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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i just want more layers for backgrounds not gameplay... mostly wanting a background tool And as for having a layer for the 4th player... Nah >.> Would mostly be used in races. And races will be made mostly with top down view now. *mew

2010-08-31 22:52:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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1 extra playable layers would be good considering the game is four player. -as for "not" switching layers you could setup a sackbot that has no ability to change layers, that would be easy to do in Lbp2.

2010-09-01 00:12:00 Author: Spyre-wolf Posts: 63

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I know these are well and good ideas, but it just hit me, adding another late this late or even after it's released as a 'background' layer would be gobs of work! I don't think it would ever happen!

2010-09-01 00:29:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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I know these are well and good ideas, but it just hit me, adding another late this late or even after it's released as a 'background' layer would be gobs of work! I don't think it would ever happen! Well i do they added water and people said all the time it would never happen, they sure can add a background tool if they really want to, So what if it be tons of work? thats their job! they get paid to make us junk~ they can do whatever they want when they feel like it, it all just depends if they will~ *mew

2010-09-01 00:57:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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First of all... WHAT THE HECK IS *MEW [/?] Secondly, I'd say it would be much harder than adding a new element. They would have to tweak anything that contains code pertaining to layers, which many of the new features do.

2010-09-01 01:04:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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First of all... WHAT THE HECK IS *MEW [/?] Secondly, I'd say it would be much harder than adding a new element. They would have to tweak anything that contains code pertaining to layers, which many of the new features do. Yohohoo! Why do you even need to Ask? Mew is the sound the pokemon Mew makes, And if you ever watch Anime in your life Cat girls say it all the time while talking. Well they say Nao really but whateverz, and what you think is not important, we both don't work for MM so whoz to say? Don't Act all knowing on us when your not, And even if it was harder to add then water, And im pretty sure its not as there is already the 3D layer bug meaning all they have to do is fix that up for us. *mew

2010-09-01 01:16:00 Author: Lord-Dreamerz Posts: 4261

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So please explain why five layers would be "bad"

2010-09-01 08:07:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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I'm not saying it'd be bad, it would just eat resources. That thermo that we already think is so small, would just keep shrinking with five layers implemented. Standards would rise among the community, worse that there is now. Three level layers would be bad, five level layer would be what people would have to create to make a good level. It just seems like it could cause oodles of problems.

2010-09-01 14:35:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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also surely in order to add 2 more layers the current thermo would have to be shrunk in order to allow for the extra layer space?

2010-09-01 16:50:00 Author: Smudge228 Posts: 533

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The thermo wouldn't need to be touched. Also you could use the 5 layers but only use 3 for the majority but have a section where you say have to get to the top of a small bit to place an orb or flag or whatever.

2010-09-01 17:19:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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I don't think Media Molecule should change anything with the layers TBH. It's been three main layers in all of LBP1, they should keep it that way. Although I do hope they keep the 50 layers glitch in. It adds a lot of possibilities, as people have shown. Or maybe integrate it into the game and make it easier to use, like Rottinghouse said. It is fine the way it is, IMO.

2010-09-01 20:33:00 Author: VnGamer234 Posts: 111

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If they gave us some kind of background tool, which lets us add stuff to the two layers behind it but does not allow gameplay, that would be good. Same thing for foreground (One foreground, three playable, one background). This would let us add more detail without adding more complexity to gameplay and whatnot.

2010-09-01 21:46:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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