Archive: 29 posts

---

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/using-koran-quotes-in-music-quite-normal Toumani Diabate, the musician behind the song responsible for LittleBigPlanet's delayed release, has defended the practice of including passages from the Qur'an in music. Diabate, himself a Muslim, told the BBC's News at Ten programme that it was common practice to use the Qur'an as an inspiration in music. Last week, Sony announced that it would be recalling all units of LittleBigPlanet and removing the song from the game in an attempt to avoid offence. "It's quite normal to play music and be inspired by the words of the Prophet Mohammed," Diabate explaine. "It's my way to attract and inspire people towards Islam" Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra of the Muslim Council of Britain disagreed, telling the programme that the material should have been pulled and would have been offensive. "Muslims believe the Qur'an to be the actual word of god and give it utmost respect," he said. "Therefore if it were to be used with the accompaniment of music or if it were to be used in a game or a commercial - that would upset and cause offence and hurt to many, many Muslims." Last year, Sony faced criticism for including Manchester Cathedral as a level within its FPS, Resistance: Fall of Man. In that instance, objections came about after the game's launch and Sony refused to recall the game or the offending content. Debated on whether or not to post this, but I felt it was very unbiased and showed both viewpoints from the Muslim perspective nonetheless. It's just interesting to me that Toumani Diabate - seemingly - includes quotes from the Koran in his music on a normal basis. The question I have now is why is his music so controversial now? Because it's in a popular "video game"? His music seemed to be fairly well-known before LBP. There weren't any claims of controversy before LBP? Just curious. EDIT: I'm not arguing whether or not the music is offensive; it obviously is. I just wanted to present the artist's thoughts.

2008-10-21 13:08:00 Author: supersickie Posts: 1366

---

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/using-koran-quotes-in-music-quite-normal EDIT: I'm not arguing whether or not the music is offensive; it obviously is. I just wanted to present the artist's thoughts. See, I wonder if those quotes really are offensive to "many, many muslims." I do not dispute that it is offensive to some muslims, but "many, many?" I work with many muslim colleagues, and not one saw this as offensive, and in fact some clearly objected to the very idea, saying that praising the word of God can take many different forms, even songs. And all were, to varying degrees, crossed to be spoken for by people whom they feel do not represent them. Of course I realize that as with all major religions, there are differing schools of thoughts, in this case, I don't think the majority of muslims from all over the world (not just the middle east) are from the school that says that Q'ran and music should not mix. Just my 2 cents, of course.

2008-10-21 13:29:00 Author: hagarthelucky Posts: 9

---

You see, what he said is exactly true, but how many of you actually payed attention to what he said? '"It's quite normal to play music and be inspired by the words of the Prophet Mohammed,"' There's a difference between being inspired, and blatantly copying the words of a holy text. There are thousands of songs out there by Muslims that praise Allah and the Prophet, but close to none of them directly quote the Qur'an, which is why his music is considered offensive, while theirs is not looked down upon. Also, this has been known to be a problem, which is why his music is banned within the region. EDIT: Also, I'm going to assume he meant the Qur'an as well as the Prophet, because that's what the interview was actually about.

2008-10-21 13:38:00 Author: ScytheOfGrim Posts: 438

---

You see, what he said is exactly true, but how many of you actually payed attention to what he said? '"It's quite normal to play music and be inspired by the words of the Prophet Mohammed,"' There's a difference between being inspired, and blatantly copying the words of a holy text. There are thousands of songs out there by Muslims that praise Allah and the Prophet, but close to none of them directly quote the Qur'an, which is why his music is considered offensive, while there's is not looked down upon. Also, this has been known to be a problem, which is why his music is banned within the region. EDIT: Also, I'm going to assume he meant the Qur'an as well as the Prophet, because that's what the interview was actually about. "Inspired by" is key; good point.

2008-10-21 13:46:00 Author: supersickie Posts: 1366

---

I have to wonder (from an honestly uneducated viewpoint here) if there are different branches of Muslims, much like there are Christians, and whereas Christianity have all named their branches, Muslims have not. Maybe they aren't as clearly defined as Christians, but obviously one "branch" for want of a better word would find it offensive, whereas another would not. It is interesting to see the different viewpoints on this. Thanks for posting it. Edit: I hadn't picked up on the "inspired" part, but still, the point holds that several people have spoken to those of Muslim faiths who would be offended, several others wouldn't be.

2008-10-21 13:48:00 Author: flakmagnet Posts: 1084

---

I have to wonder (from an honestly uneducated viewpoint here) if there are different branches of Muslims, much like there are Christians, and whereas Christianity have all named their branches, Muslims have not. Maybe they aren't as clearly defined as Christians, but obviously one "branch" for want of a better word would find it offensive, whereas another would not. It is interesting to see the different viewpoints on this. Thanks for posting it. Edit: I hadn't picked up on the "inspired" part, but still, the point holds that several people have spoken to those of Muslim faiths who would be offended, several others wouldn't be. There are a few different denominations of Islam; the major denominations being Sunni and Shi'a. However, there beliefs do not differ so drastically as say the denominations found within Christian Protestantism. While some Muslims aren't offended, it doesn't change the fact that some obviously are. That said, Sony made the right move to change something that was potentially offensive.

2008-10-21 14:03:00 Author: supersickie Posts: 1366

---

I have to wonder (from an honestly uneducated viewpoint here) if there are different branches of Muslims, much like there are Christians, and whereas Christianity have all named their branches, Muslims have not. Maybe they aren't as clearly defined as Christians, but obviously one "branch" for want of a better word would find it offensive, whereas another would not. It is interesting to see the different viewpoints on this. Thanks for posting it. Edit: I hadn't picked up on the "inspired" part, but still, the point holds that several people have spoken to those of Muslim faiths who would be offended, several others wouldn't be. There are different branches of Islam. First you have the main sects, which are the Sunni and Shi'ia. And within these two sects you have different "tribes". Now, in what ways do these tribes differ? In fact, the differences are very small. Many of them are differences in beliefs of how the prayer is performed; not the main actions, but small details in the things said and small differences in actions. For example, many tribes believe in folding their arms when they pray, while others believe that the arms should be down by one's sides. Also, how high up the arms are to be crossed, and simple little things like that. But things such as the Holy text and how it is to be treated are not disputed upon. No matter what tribe you fall under (for Sunnis, as Shi'a are very different), the inclusion of verses of the Qur'an in a song is not acceptable. The Shi'a have totally different beliefs from the Sunni. Heck, you might as well consider them a whole other religion had they not used the same Holy text and the same God. But they have different prayers, different beliefs in the Prophets and whatnot... but I'm not a Shi'ite, so I won't go into detail on their behalf.

2008-10-21 14:06:00 Author: ScytheOfGrim Posts: 438

---

There are a few different denominations of Islam; the major denominations being Sunni and Shi'a. However, there beliefs do not differ so drastically as say the denominations found within Christian Protestantism. While some Muslims aren't offended, it doesn't change the fact that some obviously are. That said, Sony made the right move to change something that was potentially offensive. Oh, absolutley. I agree that changing it was the correct decision. How they went about it I don't full agree with, if I were the one making the decision, that is not how I would have done it, but that's for another thread. I completely forgot about the two denominations that I had heard of. I do wonder why some may not find it offensive then, when others do? Still, I believe that changing it certainly was the right decision.

2008-10-21 14:14:00 Author: flakmagnet Posts: 1084

---

I completely forgot about the two denominations that I had heard of. I do wonder why some may not find it offensive then, when others do? Because not everyone is brought up with the correct understanding of the religion, sadly. Not to say that they're bad Muslims, but they're most certainly lacking the understanding of some principles.

2008-10-21 14:19:00 Author: ScytheOfGrim Posts: 438

---

Because not everyone is brought up with the correct understanding of the religion, sadly. Not to say that they're bad Muslims, but they're most certainly lacking the understanding of some principles. In your opinion, Scythe, could this be due to the Westernization of Islam? In other words, might it be that some of the very core beliefs and guidelines are lost in some instances when they appear within the American culture? From what I learned in my collegiate career, it was very much understood that inclusion of direct quotes from the Koran alongside music was frowned upon. However, that's not to say that was the understanding in the Muslim-American society. In other words, I was taught more along the lines of what Middle Eastern Muslims believe and how they practice rather than how Muslim-Americans - Westerners if you will - practice on a day-to-day basis. Just wanted your insight on that, Scythe. EDIT: As Scythe said previously, the difference in beliefs comes from different upbringings more than anything else. I highly doubt any of the Muslims who are not offended by quotes from the Koran alongside music are being knowingly defiant of Allah.

2008-10-21 14:26:00 Author: supersickie Posts: 1366

---

ugh... Anyway, I remember the whole manchester cathedral thing. The game was nearly banned here in the uk xD EDIT: Oh and super, American Culture? Both sides of this argument are from Britain.

2008-10-21 14:28:00 Author: Maltay Posts: 2073

---

In your opinion, Scythe, could this be due to the Westernization of Islam? In other words, might it be that some of the very core beliefs and guidelines are lost in some instances when they appear within the American culture? From what I learned in my collegiate career, it was very much understood that inclusion of direct quotes from the Koran alongside music was frowned upon. However, that's not to say that was the understanding in the Muslim-American society. In other words, I was taught more along the lines of what Middle Eastern Muslims believe and how they practice rather than how Muslim-Americans - Westerners if you will - practice on a day-to-day basis. Just wanted your insight on that, Scythe. It's due to a mixture of reasons, but the Westernization of Islam is definitely one of them. The thing is that within Islam there are "levels" of believers. The problem is that many people tend to forget to explain many principles of Islam as they are teaching it to others, and these people are usually of the lower levels of believers. Many Muslims are unable to reach the higher levels of beliefs because of bad habits, or things they are used to doing and are ignorant as to whether they are right or wrong. These people tend to pass on their beliefs, along with many of their habits, to others that they teach, or to their own children. So, gradually, more and more is lost. Of course, this isn't a definite outcome, but I'm referring to those that tend to lose a lot of the principles of Islam, and therefore accept a thing such as this song. The ironic thing is, though, that quite often Muslim converts coming from the West are those with the better grasp of the principles of the religion, but this is mainly because they're new to it, and wish to learn as much as possible from different sources as quickly as possible. But that's another matter indirectly related to this one.

2008-10-21 14:38:00 Author: ScytheOfGrim Posts: 438

---

ugh... Anyway, I remember the whole manchester cathedral thing. The game was nearly banned here in the uk xD EDIT: Oh and super, American Culture? Both sides of this argument are from Britain. I'm just going off of what I know which is American culture. I can't speak for what's going on in Britain as I have literally no background there. However, what I do know is that Western Muslims may be far different than Middle Eastern Muslims whether they be from Britain or America. http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/10/21/muslim-group-disagrees-with-littlebigplanet-delay-decision/ What do other Muslims think about the LittleBigPlanet delay? Not everyone agrees that the decision to postpone the game due to the inclusion of "offensive" Qur'anic text was the right one. In fact, M. Zuhdi Jasser, M.D., president of the non-profit American Islamic Forum for Democracy strongly opposes the complaint stating that it was counterproductive to freedom of speech. Jasser, who has also appeared on CNN and the Washington Times, spoke to Edge-Online saying "Muslims cannot benefit from freedom of expression and religion and then turn around and ask that anytime their sensibilities are offended that the freedom of others be restricted." He also argued: "The fact that the music writer is a devout Muslim should highlight that at the core of this issue is not about offending 'all Muslims,' but only about freedom of expression and the free market." In the end, it sounds like to us that no one gained a thing from this debacle. Sony and Media Molecule take a bad rap for the delays, Muslims look ever more paranoid and distant, and everyone is left in waiting. Hopefully this series of bad decisions and wrong turns will be over soon. Just goes to show how deep this thing is going. Before we get too deep into this thread, I just want to state that I think it's great that we can all be civilized and have intelligent discussions on such a sensitive topic. If you aren't bringing anything constructive to the conversation, please think twice before posting. As I started the thread, I only meant it to be informative throughout. Again, it's great that we all have such a great community where can post and constructively discuss matters of interest. It's due to a mixture of reasons, but the Westernization of Islam is definitely one of them. The thing is that within Islam there are "levels" of believers. The problem is that many people tend to forget to explain many principles of Islam as they are teaching it to others, and these people are usually of the lower levels of believers. Many Muslims are unable to reach the higher levels of beliefs because of bad habits, or things they are used to doing and are ignorant as to whether they are right or wrong. These people tend to pass on their beliefs, along with many of their habits, to others that they teach, or to their own children. So, gradually, more and more is lost. ... The ironic thing is, though, that quite often Muslim converts coming from the West are those with the better grasp of the principles of the religion, but this is mainly because they're new to it, and wish to learn as much as possible from different sources as quickly as possible. But that's another matter indirectly related to this one. The fact that many low-level believers pass on their beliefs/bad habits isn't too different from what goes on in any given religion. I've also noticed - being a Christian-American I cannot speak for the views of Muslims - that Muslim converts do pick things up faster and seem to have a solid - "textbook" if you will - understanding of the principles of Islam and, in turn, are more devout and genuine in their attempt to be completely submissive to Allah.

2008-10-21 14:39:00 Author: supersickie Posts: 1366

---

My thoughts on this: Muslims that are offended by this song are more religious. Muslims that just title themselves as Muslims and aren't realy religious don't really even care. I, myself, am not even that religious, so if anyone were to make a song with something about ********** in it, I wouldn't really care.

2008-10-21 14:45:00 Author: Unknown User

---

The fact that many low-level believers pass on their beliefs/bad habits isn't too different from what goes on in any given religion. I've also noticed - being a Christian-American I cannot speak for the views of Muslims - that Muslim converts do pick things up faster and seem to have a solid - "textbook" if you will - understanding of the principles of Islam and, in turn, are more devout and genuine in their attempt to be completely submissive to Allah. Exactly, so the concept shouldn't be too difficult to discern, as you yourself obviously know about it. Precisely what I was saying. I was afraid you would get slightly confused and see my later words as contradicting my earlier ones, because, quite frankly, it does look like that if you quickly glance through them. The funny thing is, born Muslims themselves agree with this idea too!

2008-10-21 14:52:00 Author: ScytheOfGrim Posts: 438

---

Thanks for clearing that up Scythe, it's nice to feel like you understand things a little better.

2008-10-21 14:54:00 Author: flakmagnet Posts: 1084

---

...The funny thing is, born Muslims themselves agree with this idea too! Are you referring to the fact that other Muslims realize there are low-level believers and such? If so, Christians see things within their own religion the exact same way. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's going to be the case across all three major monotheistic religions.

2008-10-21 15:05:00 Author: supersickie Posts: 1366

---

Are you referring to the fact that other Muslims realize there are low-level believers and such? If so, Christians see things within their own religion the exact same way. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's going to be the case across all three major monotheistic religions. Of course, they'll never admit to being of a "lower level", but that can be deduced. It's just a fact that when somebody discovers something new, they tend to take the utmost care with their discovery, while those born into a certain thing, tend to wave their hand at it more and find it easier to turn a blind eye towards it. It's a matter of true understanding...

2008-10-21 15:09:00 Author: ScytheOfGrim Posts: 438

---

Of course, they'll never admit to being of a "lower level", but that can be deduced. It's just a fact that when somebody discovers something new, they tend to take the utmost care with their discovery, while those born into a certain thing, tend to wave their hand at it more and find it easier to turn a blind eye towards it. It's a matter of true understanding... I just wanted to clarify something: my muslim colleagues, though they now live in Canada, were all born in the Maghreb, and are devout Muslims, born and raised to the Faith. I would even venture to say that they would take a rather dim view of your implying that they would be "lower level". Or that their understanding of the Word of God is somehow less true than others. Many of the previous posts sound a bit like a Catholic expounding on the fact that Protestants aren't bad Christians, they just lost the true understanding the Bible.

2008-10-21 15:47:00 Author: hagarthelucky Posts: 9

---

I just wanted to clarify something: my muslim colleagues, though they now live in Canada, were all born in the Maghreb, and are devout Muslims, born and raised to the Faith. I would even venture to say that they would take a rather dim view of your implying that they would be "lower level". Or that their understanding of the Word of God is somehow less true than others. Many of the previous posts sound a bit like a Catholic expounding on the fact that Protestants aren't bad Christians, they just lost the true understanding the Bible. I don't believe Scythe or myself were implying anything about your colleagues. Our discussion of "low-level believers" extended only so far as to people who do not have a grasp of the most important concepts within their given faith. That being said, I'm curious to know if you colleagues have any stance whatsoever when it comes to quoting the Koran within music. Do they feel it's okay in any given situation? What I'm trying to determine is do they have a predisposition to be wary of Koranic quotes being used alongside music or do they not have a stance one way or another?

2008-10-21 16:00:00 Author: supersickie Posts: 1366

---

I just wanted to clarify something: my muslim colleagues, though they now live in Canada, were all born in the Maghreb, and are devout Muslims, born and raised to the Faith. I would even venture to say that they would take a rather dim view of your implying that they would be "lower level". Or that their understanding of the Word of God is somehow less true than others. Many of the previous posts sound a bit like a Catholic expounding on the fact that Protestants aren't bad Christians, they just lost the true understanding the Bible. Of course they would take a dim view to me calling them that. As I said, most Muslims would take a dim view towards such a thought, but does that mean that they're right? Now, don't get me wrong, as I have no clue who these friends of yours are, but this brings me back to my point about the basic principles of morality and how some people don't know them, or don't know them thoroughly enough. But if they accept the Holy text to be directly quoted in a song, what am I supposed to believe if not given a valid explanation? Don't get me wrong, for I don't know your friends. I don't know what type of people they are, and I most certainly don't know if they're good Muslims or not, but my point still stands firm.

2008-10-21 16:01:00 Author: ScytheOfGrim Posts: 438

---

Keep it going in a respectful way guys, but I'm moving this to the general section, as this has more to do with religion by now than LittleBigPlanet. LBP

2008-10-21 16:30:00 Author: lbp Posts: 423

---

Keep it going in a respectful way guys, but I'm moving this to the general section, as this has more to do with religion by now than LittleBigPlanet. LBP Saw the change of topic coming when I started it, but it didn't belong in General to begin with. Thanks for moving it rather than locking it for lack of relevance. Appreciate that.

2008-10-21 16:32:00 Author: supersickie Posts: 1366

---

At the risk of being offensive, a lot of religious people choose to kick up a fuss whether they're truly offended or not just for the attention and I'm completely serious.

2008-10-21 17:50:00 Author: UmJammerSully Posts: 1097

---

i think that people now days are thing to find ways of sueing people, we was doing this in media studies about this, i also think that they just using it to annoy use and it is politcal correction gone wrong. the guy who made the song is mulism, he use the qu'ran it inpire him to right music, what wrong with that, this guy truly believe in his faith and putting it into his music the head of britsh muslim guy, the one that was on BBC said that any thing use from the Qu'ran use in anything like media is offenive, which i cant understand this guy is following his faith and he not allowed to sing about it. i personally think that people in muslims country are still like how we was in the medievil if you now what i mean, i think that britain, europe, amercia have grown pass religion because all our probelms can be solved because of better medical equitment, while they are not and still rely on religion to sovle their problems im not saying it for every singal one, but if you compare our culture you will find that religion does not play abig part in our lives, exectp for chrismas

2008-10-21 18:03:00 Author: panzer3000 Posts: 362

---

i think that people now days are thing to find ways of sueing people, we was doing this in media studies about this, i also think that they just using it to annoy use and it is politcal correction gone wrong. the guy who made the song is mulism, he use the qu'ran it inpire him to right music, what wrong with that, this guy truly believe in his faith and putting it into his music the head of britsh muslim guy, the one that was on BBC said that any thing use from the Qu'ran use in anything like media is offenive, which i cant understand this guy is following his faith and he not allowed to sing about it. i personally think that people in muslims country are still like how we was in the medievil if you now what i mean, i think that britain, europe, amercia have grown pass religion because all our probelms can be solved because of better medical equitment, while they are not and still rely on religion to sovle their problems im not saying it for every singal one, but if you compare our culture you will find that religion does not play abig part in our lives, exectp for chrismas *sigh*... -__-' If it were a reason to sue people, the guy would have remained silent and waited until after the game was released so that he could legally press charges. Oh yes, we absolutely love annoying gamers around the world; it's what we do for a living. He directly quoted the Qur'an, which is a big no-no. Please go back and read through the various posts in this thread, thank you. Our faith is against singing and music when it is mixed with two things: - The Holy text. - Vulgar language/ideas. Oh yes, we still amputate limbs when people get a broken bone. We're just as advanced as you are. We do not rely on religion to solve our problems for us, we use religion as a guide to help us solve our problems. Oh yes, let's become religious when it involves rewards and no work. Please read through everything posted, and think deeply before you post something...

2008-10-21 18:20:00 Author: ScytheOfGrim Posts: 438

---

*sigh*... -__-' If it were a reason to sue people, the guy would have remained silent and waited until after the game was released so that he could legally press charges. Oh yes, we absolutely love annoying gamers around the world; it's what we do for a living. He directly quoted the Qur'an, which is a big no-no. Please go back and read through the various posts in this thread, thank you. Our faith is against singing and music when it is mixed with two things: - The Holy text. - Vulgar language/ideas. Oh yes, we still amputate limbs when people get a broken bone. We're just as advanced as you are. We do not rely on religion to solve our problems for us, we use religion as a guide to help us solve our problems. Oh yes, let's become religious when it involves rewards and no work. Please read through everything posted, and think deeply before you post something... are you like complety commited to your faith or are you like half and half, and also do you think the Qu'ran should be update, make it more modern, allowing you to eat pork, which i dont understand why you guy cant, i heard different therys to why you cant, and the one that i believe is true is because in the times that the book was writen people could not cook meat as they could now days, which means that white meat would give you food poisoning.

2008-10-21 18:30:00 Author: panzer3000 Posts: 362

---

are you like complety commited to your faith or are you like half and half, and also do you think the Qu'ran should be update, make it more modern, allowing you to eat pork, which i dont understand why you guy cant, i heard different therys to why you cant, and the one that i believe is true is because in the times that the book was writen people could not cook meat as they could now days, which means that white meat would give you food poisoning. I am seriously disappointed in your level of awareness. The Qur'an can not be updated under no circumstances whatsoever. It's not your average book written by man. Pork? Here's a little experiment for you to do: Get yourself some nicely cooked pork, exactly how you like it. Now get yourself some Pepsi/Coca-Cola. Now pour said drink on said pork. Now sit and watch. It has nothing to do with the cooking methods of the past, it's to do with pigs themselves. And as far as I'm concerned, pigs haven't changed a bit.

2008-10-21 18:36:00 Author: ScytheOfGrim Posts: 438

---

Ok this is just a friendly reminder to keep this on topic and friendly or else it will be locked. It was lbp's decision as owner of the site to keep it open after I requested he look at it and he has asked me to keep an eye on it and so far it has been okay so lets keep it that way. EDIT: Actually I think this one has run it's course for now. Again if you feel it should be re opened contact CC when he gets on. It's 4 Am here I'm going to bed. Cheers QuozL

2008-10-21 18:44:00 Author: QuozL Posts: 921

Posts: 1077139    Threads: 69970    Members: 9661    Archive-Date: 2019-01-19

Aus dem Archiv wurden alle persönlichen Daten wie Name, Anschrift, Email etc. - aber auch sämtliche Inhalte wie z.B. persönliche Nachrichten - entfernt.
Die Nutzung dieser Webseite erfolgt ohne Speicherung personenbezogener Daten. Es werden keinerlei Cookies, Logs, 3rd-Party-Plugins etc. verwendet.