Archive: 18 posts

---

So a while back MobiuDt asked about making a monocycle (a one-wheeled bike you ride inside) and I threw together a basic version for him to build on. Since then I've been tinkering with it and I've got something I'm pretty happy with, but now I want to add a jump function to it on the tap-grab switch (tap=jump, hold=shoot). The problem is it's built in such a way that rockets really won't work for it. Some details: it's a big wheel and inside that is a smaller wheel that sackboy runs in to control it-hamster style. Inside the smaller wheel is the seat, and grab controls. The seat uses a tilt sensor combined with some double bolting to keep itself level--it's not anchored to the ground or anything. There is an invisible glass flipper that the big wheel is attached to so that it has something to push off when driving: think of it as behind shaped like a pinball flipper and when you change direction, it flips over to the other side. Since there are no parts that are anchored in a way that keeps them perfectly upright, there's no problem with the thing ending up upside down after a jump/drop (the cockpit rights itself and nothing else has an upside), but it also means there's nothing steady enough for me to anchor rockets to. Any ideas on how to make the thing jump? Whatever it it, it can't add another layer: the whole thing takes up one thick layer and two thin (though one of those thin layers doesn't count 'cuz it's only gas) and I'm not giving it any more.

2010-08-17 21:26:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

---

Hmm, I read this book, Snow Crash, which had wheels consisting of loads of pins that could extend to handle rough terrain, or jump. Adapting that, you'd need to put a layer of pads around the wheel, attached with pistons. When you want to jump, emit a key below the cockpit, and have the nearby pistons push out.

2010-08-17 22:07:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

---

That is a nifty idea... but there's no way the pistons/pushers would be strong enough to handle the abuse of driving around.

2010-08-17 22:34:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

---

Maybe if you could secure the pads somehow. I don't suppose a winch would work, they always seem more stable to me than pistons. Clamps would need to be tiny, which is tricky. How about a bit of elastic between each pad? They would become like tank tracks.

2010-08-17 23:46:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

---

Hmm i have an idea. If you have a layer behind it free then have a large glass elipse (or half) and link it to a wobble bolt. Have the wobble bolt spin 90• so the elipse is vertical and if done at a fast enough speed the whole thing should propell itself off the ground. Make the grab directional and it might just work

2010-08-18 00:41:00 Author: AssassinatorRFC Posts: 715

---

I've been giving the piston thing s'more thought and I'll have to try it, 'cuz if it's strong enough to keep from breaking, it would actually be perfect for jumping and it might even enhance the aesthetic. I'll get to that some time tonight and see how it goes. Still, it does seem like a bulky solution if they wrap around the wheel and there's no open layers to put it behind/in front of it, so it might not work out. Assassinator, I don't have a free layer unfortunately, and I already have problems with the flipper breaking, so adding another one would be problematic. I already tried something similar to what you said and it broke. Also, it'd be difficult to keep it upright during normal operation because there's really nothing to anchor it to (everything spins except the cockpit, which wobbles quite a bit). [edit] Tried the piston pusher idea. Unfortunately, it was too fragile, so I abandoned the idea. Too bad too 'cuz I actually liked that idea once I gave it some thought. I could probably make it work, but it would mean starting from scratch and the last time I tried that, I couldn't get it to work (the way I've built this thing shouldn't be possible and may have been a fluke 'cuz I couldn't do it when I tried again).

2010-08-18 04:23:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

---

I'm not 100% sure I understand how it's built, but it's basically 2 thick layer circles (cockpit and wheel) with a space in the middle for the player, yes? Then would it be possible to use the compression tool to overlap a number of peach floaty circles so they only take up a small amount of space but give a lot of lift? Once glued together and captured they could just be emitted into the middle of the cockpit and given a life time of a couple of seconds. This way the vehicle would always move upwards. Obviously I don't know the details of your monocycle but I'm assuming it's not too heavy and surely the cockpit could have a cover so the peach floaty couldn't be seen. This method could also give the vehicle a double, triple, etc jump feature since it's emitted, maybe. Meanwhile I have absolutly no idea if any of this is actually possible

2010-08-18 07:18:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

---

Or you could emit something at significantly high speed pushing it upwards?

2010-08-18 07:51:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

---

Unfortunately, floaty introduces quite a bit of drag. I experimented with adding floaty to the top of the cockpit to help keep it level and to make the bike (mike?) lighter on its feet... err wheel... but the drag actually caused it to be less stable that way. Also, while everything but the seat and outer wheel are invisible, the cockpit is actually completely full... even in the space where sackboy stands (I used invisible dead material that sackboy can walk through 'cuz I needed more moving parts but didn't have any layers to put them in). And yeah, it's two concentric thack layer wheels in the same layer with a space for sackboy to stand in: I found that if I glue a hollow wheel to a thin gas circle and bolt it at its center, the bolt will be strong enough to make it work, so I was able to get both wheels into the same layer. Now ask how I bolted the theck layer in front of the thin gas to both of the wheels in the same spot with different bolts..... I bolted one, then positioned the other (using the compression tool to get it into position) and then added a bolt to a small square of the same theck material elsewhere, clicked L3 to copy it and then pasted it into the existing theck piece. That resulted in two bolts in the same material in the same spot. For some reason, I was able to get each bolt to attach to the wheel I wanted, but when I try to repeat it, they both bolt to the same wheel... which is why I can't start from scratch. In fact there's a third bolt that attaches to MORE thin gas for the wheeley good logic... and that thin gas wheel is bolted to ANOTHER thin gas piece in the same layer--that's four layers worth of stuff all squeezed into one thin layer. So yeah, I'm feeling pretty proud of what I've accomplished, but I'm starting to suspect that it's left NO room for jumping. I tried the pushers, and I tried an emitted lifter (dm connected to a grabber that pulls the vehicle up) but, since I didn't have much room for it, it ended up breaking things. And I've tried adding floaty, but that causes too much drag and destabilizes the whole thing. Maybe I wrote off rockets too quickly. I'll have to see if there's any way to squeeze a couple in and if I can get them to stay semi stable. [Edit] Tried rockets and they're a HUUUUUUGE no go. Or you could emit something at significantly high speed pushing it upwards? Hm... I'll have to see if there's any way to squeeze that in. The only problem is what would they be firing at? There's literally no room inside to shoot at (and even if there were, it would have to be shooting something thack, but the theck backplate will block the emitter: theck blocks thack from being emitted) and shooting from underneath is impossible because there's a theck flipper that, at any given time, can be in any position around the wheel which would block any emitter trying to shoot at the wheel from underneath.

2010-08-18 07:55:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

---

I'm sorry if I'm just being obnoxious, posting here, because honestly I understand about 3% of this contraption (That it's a wheel), is there one of these vehicles with these "tilt sensors", and auto-righting cockpits, that I could get in my game and dissect for science (Meaning my own personal knowledge, obvi)? If someone doesn't mind explaining in gratuitous amounts of detail, I'd be fine with that, but I just think pointing me in the direction of the actual object (Or similar, but different version), would be far simpler for you, the kind people helping me. As I do realize that I am contributing in no way to this thread, I give you permission to completely ignore me. I won't be offended

2010-08-18 08:09:00 Author: Enjay Posts: 79

---

No worries Enjay. Take a look at my vehicle tools level in my signature. It shows and explains tilt sensors and it includes a somewhat rough auto-righting object along with some other useful things, such as motion sensors (to tell which way a vehicle is moving) and control pods (wheels you run on top of or inside to control a vehicle's direction so that the grab button can be free for other functions). [EDIT] Ok, to make things a bit clearer, here's some pics. Dunno if it'll help at all (making it jump without adding layers might actually be impossible), but I'll try it anyway. http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22176 http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22177 In the first pic, the flipper is invisible theck glass and it's about the closest thing this vehicle has to a chassis. The drive wheel spins against it so that it has something to push against. The hamster wheel is invisible and it wraps around the cockpit; both it and the drive wheel are thack so they can fit in front of the theck flipper while only taking up one thick layer. In the second pic, you can see the pieces that make up the cockpit. The floor (orange) is dead walk-through material so that sackboy's feet can reach through to the hamster wheel. The top (red) is invisible cardboard and it's there to keep sackboy in his seat and to give the tilt sensor something to attach to. The dotted line piece that I forgot to outline is invisible thin layer walk-through material (so sackboy can get into the cockpit without it being in the way--I HATED adding that extra thin layer, 'cuz I really wanted to keep the vehicle down to just one thick layer and some thin gas, but I couldn't get it to work without it) and it's bolted to a thack invisible walk through wheel inside the cockpit which is in turn bolted to the theck flipper: these bolts spin opposite directions and run off the tilt sensor to keep the cockpit upright. So yeah, as far as I can figure, there's no room to emit anything inside (even if I hollowed out a space in the cockpit, the flipper would still block any emitters) or outside (again, at any given time, the flipper can be anywhere around the wheel).

2010-08-18 08:14:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

---

No worries Enjay. Take a look at my vehicle tools level in my signature. It shows and explains tilt sensors and it includes a somewhat rough auto-righting object along with some other useful things, such as motion sensors (to tell which way a vehicle is moving) and control pods (wheels you run on top of or inside to control a vehicle's direction so that the grab button can be free for other functions). [EDIT] Ok, to make things a bit clearer, here's some pics. Dunno if it'll help at all (making it jump without adding layers might actually be impossible), but I'll try it anyway. http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22176 http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22177 In the first pic, the flipper is invisible theck glass and it's about the closest thing this vehicle has to a chassis. The drive wheel spins against it so that it has something to push against. The hamster wheel is invisible and it wraps around the cockpit; both it and the drive wheel are thack so they can fit in front of the theck flipper while only taking up one thick layer. In the second pic, you can see the pieces that make up the cockpit. The floor (orange) is dead walk-through material so that sackboy's feet can reach through to the hamster wheel. The top (red) is invisible cardboard and it's there to keep sackboy in his seat and to give the tilt sensor something to attach to. The dotted line piece that I forgot to outline is invisible thin layer walk-through material (so sackboy can get into the cockpit without it being in the way--I HATED adding that extra thin layer, 'cuz I really wanted to keep the vehicle down to just one thick layer and some thin gas, but I couldn't get it to work without it) and it's bolted to a thack invisible walk through wheel inside the cockpit which is in turn bolted to the theck flipper: these bolts spin opposite directions and run off the tilt sensor to keep the cockpit upright. So yeah, as far as I can figure, there's no room to emit anything inside (even if I hollowed out a space in the cockpit, the flipper would still block any emitters) or outside (again, at any given time, the flipper can be anywhere around the wheel). this reminds me of general grievous in star wars. the part with the wheel thing

2010-08-18 08:58:00 Author: AA_BATTERY Posts: 1117

---

So yeah, as far as I can figure, there's no room to emit anything inside (even if I hollowed out a space in the cockpit, the flipper would still block any emitters) or outside (again, at any given time, the flipper can be anywhere around the wheel). Interesting stuff... So it's controlled by walking, if I understand it correctly. Well, in the real world, action = reaction, so in stead of emitting in a hollow space, moving a heavy block around should work, too. But I'm not so sure it would work in LBP. Concerning the flipper, in normal operation it would be positioned down to the left (or right). It's not that far-fetched to only allow jumps while moving normally. Then you can mount something on the flipper after all.

2010-08-18 10:12:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

---

Wow that looks much better than I imagined it too. Back to the problem. Is there any way you could cut a ring out of the glass flipper to make an object like this? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9rvux6f1kYo/Rm5HwECmgtI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/deWaJebAfXs/s320/Target%2BBlack.PNG Keeping the middle so it can be bolted and somehow how join the two pieces together, rods possibly. With this ring now cut out could you embed a couple of small rockets into the corners of the cardboard (red)? The cut out ring would allow the flipper to slide around the rockets. Then just cover them up with some deco's.

2010-08-18 10:35:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

---

Getting the rockets in there isn't the hard part. All I've gotta' do is gas 'em, or use the back half of the mgs missiles (they're thack). The problem with the rockets is that, since the cockpit is loose, it goes crazy when the rockets turn on. Maybe I gave up too quickly. I'll have to experiment with rockets a bit more, I suppose. Also, I'm hesitant to put them in the cardboard part because there's no way to hide them if they're up there and rockets can't be made invisible. Also, any solution that involves cutting into the flipper is going to be problematic. I already had to slow the thing down 'cuz it had too much torque and could break the flipper: making it smaller and therefore weaker would make it even easier to break. Also, since, for some reason I can't seem to put things together the same way again, drastically altering the flipper would be impossible--I'd have to take it apart and I'd never get it back together again.

2010-08-18 10:59:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

---

This is gonna sound really stupid, but I'd try putting loads of tiny little creature legs around the edge, and concealing a brain somewhere, and telling the brain to jump. It'll likely never, ever work, not least because the jump can't be triggered, but it's a method you could try out at any rate.

2010-08-18 11:15:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

---

Getting the rockets in there isn't the hard part. All I've gotta' do is gas 'em, or use the back half of the mgs missiles (they're thack). Well there's two things I've learnt. I always thought gased rockets didn't give any thrust. The problem with the rockets is that, since the cockpit is loose, it goes crazy when the rockets turn on. Maybe I gave up too quickly. I'll have to experiment with rockets a bit more, I suppose. Also, I'm hesitant to put them in the cardboard part because there's no way to hide them if they're up there and rockets can't be made invisible. Since the the tilt sensor is connected to the cockpit would two rockets, one on each side of the cockpit, work if they were hooked up to it the tilt sensor as well? Or do I have the wrong idea of loose?

2010-08-18 11:36:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

---

@holguin: I like the way you're thinking, but yes, unfortunately there's no way of controlling the jump using creature legs. @SR20...: That's an idea. I'll have to try experimenting with that a bit. It would require some sort of AND gate with a speed pass-through... but I can probably do that. The problem I forsee, though, is that the rockets fire short bursts, so it's not like a slow controlled flight. Meaning, if they're pushing in the wrong direction to begin with, there's no time for it to right itself. Also, I've never been able to get a speed based rockets/tilt sensor combo to actually give stable results. The more I think about this, the more I wish I could get Rogar's pin method to work. It would give perfect jumps in theory if I could just keep it from breaking. Of course the most painful thing about building this bike is knowing how easy it'd be in lbp2: the hamster wheel and the two other moving parts connected to it could be replaced by a DCS, the balancing logic for the cockpit could be replaced by a gyro, and the jump could be accomplished with a mover. [EDIT] Well, I think I've got it about as good as it's gonna' get. I tried the pin method one more time out of blind optimism, 'cuz I knew darn well that attaching piston pushers to a spinning wheel was going to result in tearing stuff up and sure enough. I have had some success, however, with a rocket (kinda' funny, 'cuz rockets were the very first thing I ruled out). I gassed it, embedded it at the very top of the cardboard, and gave it a short pulse timer. It took a few tries to get it just right, but the bike can jump now and it's mostly stable... mostly. It tends to get a bit unstable in the air (go figure, since the theck glass isn't touching the ground when it's in the air) but the pulse is short enough that it doesn't go rocketing around crazily.... but double jumps are a bad idea. I'll have to clean up the logic a bit (I used an over-complicated tap switch for testing) and then I'll see about getting it published in a showcase/gift level. Thanks everybody for the ideas, and thanks SR20 for your illustration. Even though I didn't need to cut rails into the glass, your suggestion got me thinking about rockets again, which is what lead to success. [EDIT AGAIN] It's published! (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=33647-Monocycle&p=584197#post584197)

2010-08-18 19:22:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

Posts: 1077139    Threads: 69970    Members: 9661    Archive-Date: 2019-01-19

Aus dem Archiv wurden alle persönlichen Daten wie Name, Anschrift, Email etc. - aber auch sämtliche Inhalte wie z.B. persönliche Nachrichten - entfernt.
Die Nutzung dieser Webseite erfolgt ohne Speicherung personenbezogener Daten. Es werden keinerlei Cookies, Logs, 3rd-Party-Plugins etc. verwendet.