Archive: 11 posts

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Yes, I'm here again in need of more logic assistance! (one of these days I really should set out to make a level I can actually make myself...) I'm re-making Paint Rate Monitor (I'm a situation where I hate the original, so either want to delete it or remake it). For those who haven't played the original, you had 5 seconds to shoot a block of metal with the paint gun. Each shot you fired would light up an LED light and give you 50 points. It was really simple - there were 50 switches on the block (all but one invisible), each with a different number of required shots and connected to a light and a brain. Because you can only have 50 creatures in a level I had to limit the maximum to 50. The new level works very differently, using lots of one-shot emitters and LED lights that display numbers for how many shots you've fired. The target you shoot at is a bit of dissolve with a one-shot paint switch and a key - after it's hit it dissolves itself and a one-shot key switch set to inverted instantly emits a new one in its place. I have to do it that way because one-shop paint switches don't reset themselves instantly, there's an annoying delay. Now, everything I've done works really nicely when I play it. But I'm not very good at pressing R1 quickly, I average about 35 shots. If anyone really good tries it, I get the feeling it doesn't update fast enough (highest I've seen with 1 player so far is 47). And if I try it myself with 2 controllers, I STILL only get about 35-40 (and I really wanted it to work multiplayer this time). It seems that emitting the target is pretty useless if you're too fast or if more than one paintball hits it at the same time. SO - the point of this thread. It seems that if emitters aren't fast enough, the only way to do it is using the old system of hundreds of paint switches on the target (which is guranteed to be accurate). The trouble is, I need a way of turning 200+ non-one-shot paint switches into a single one-shot output so that I can connect it up to my counting logic. Assuming that even then the counter will even be fast enough to keep up with it. Any ideas? Am I making any sense? Is it even possible? Or am I just crazy for wasting time remaking a 5 second level where you do nothing but repeatedly press a button?!?

2010-08-11 20:29:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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can't you just add 1 more paint switch set to 1 and attach to your logic attach your existing first shot paint switch to the counter. edit again: assuming you're already setup to detect the first shot

2010-08-12 01:01:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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Assuming that even then the counter will even be fast enough to keep up with it. It don't think it would be... The fastest counters I've seen update every .1 seconds. With a paintinator, you can fire up to 4 paintballs in .1 second. The MGS Bubble Vendor Object demonstrates this. It has an emmiter of "0.0" instead of the normally fastest "0.1". If you test the 0.0 emmiter by making it emit paintballs and comparing it to a 0.1 emmiter, the 0.0 can deplete a paint switch 4 times as fast as the .1, (so its really 0.025.) You'd have to invent a new counting system for your idea to work, nothing like an LED counter.

2010-08-12 01:11:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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Why bother counting at that speed? What you actually want is something to display the end result... so do that. Output from the paintswitches and then decode that into a value to display. The decoder only needs to show a total after the 5seconds is up, and it doesn't even need to be fast. If you look at it from that perspective it's quite a simple task.

2010-08-12 01:40:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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The fastest counters I've seen update every .1 seconds. FYI - this counter (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=25067-Mutual-Exclusion-Switch&p=438897#post438897) can update at at least 15Hz, although I never managed to find a way to generate one-shot signals any faster.

2010-08-12 03:41:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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I had another thought about this - you actually can't use a 1 shot counter to detect paintballs from multiple sources. There is an inherent issue that 2 paintballs could hit at the same time. A single one shot into a counter can never capture that event so there is always a failure mode. There are a couple of ways around it I can think of, but they become convoluted and messy, and ultimately they will still end up with a delayed display (so counting in real time becomes moot).

2010-08-12 10:24:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Here's a wild thought: wait for LBP2, put the player in a Controlinator seat connected to a sackbot with a paintinator, and count the R1 presses directly from the source.

2010-08-12 13:57:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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I had another thought about this - you actually can't use a 1 shot counter to detect paintballs from multiple sources. There is an inherent issue that 2 paintballs could hit at the same time. A single one shot into a counter can never capture that event so there is always a failure mode. There are a couple of ways around it I can think of, but they become convoluted and messy, and ultimately they will still end up with a delayed display (so counting in real time becomes moot). So let me get this right, what the latency of a oneshot? Could it somehow be done mixing oneshot, on off, direction, and maybe speed paintinator switches? I'll mess with this stuff a bit later when I have time for LBP. EDIT: Why! WHY! there is no speed output on the paint switch.... There goes one idea.

2010-08-12 17:20:00 Author: Fishrock123 Posts: 1578

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Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I've decided to just go ahead and publish the updated level as it is. The important thing, in my opinion anyway, is that it looks a lot better than the original level did, and that it at least should be fairly accurate for displaying the 40 shots required for the trophy. In any case I've put a disclaimer in the level description saying it's not 100% accurate and only works with one player. I'm happy to leave it as it is until LBP2 is released, by which time I'll either do as Rogar said, or delete the level because it'll be so easy for other people to simply make the same thing. It seems the current LBP logic just isn't fast enough for what I need it to. But if anyone still wants to go ahead and try something with a delayed counter system, and if it works... let me know! I wouldn't have any idea where to start...

2010-08-15 13:17:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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I've just about built the mechanism. It counts up to a max of 300 (yes that means I tuned 300 paintswitches individually). ATM the output is in the form of 34 24 signals (hundreds, tens and units) which are fed into lights. It almost updates in realtime (realistically about 0.1s lag I'd guess). Needs the 24 signals decoded into an LCD display and I'll have to have a think about points on it too.... But yes, it counts faster than a counter can count

2010-08-15 16:55:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I've just about built the mechanism. It counts up to a max of 300 (yes that means I tuned 300 paintswitches individually). ATM the output is in the form of 34 24 signals (hundreds, tens and units) which are fed into lights. It almost updates in realtime (realistically about 0.1s lag I'd guess). Needs the 24 signals decoded into an LCD display and I'll have to have a think about points on it too.... But yes, it counts faster than a counter can count :o Awesome! And just as I was giving up.

2010-08-15 20:02:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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