Archive: 24 posts

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Can anyone explain the speed notation for the motor bolts... what does the speed number actually notate? It's certainly not RPM, or RPS.... The reason I need to know is... Say I pick a random speed - lets say 5; Will increasing the speed to 10 give me "double-time"? - ie; for every revolution at 5 speed, there would be 2 revolutions at 10 speed? Are there any definitive guides on Motor-Bolt speeds? Thanks in Advance

2010-08-05 12:24:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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Hmmm... good question. I've always just looked at the rotation and experimented a bit as it all depends on the radius of the wheel or whatever you have it connected to and what the application is for the desired results. I did find this, but not exactly what you are asking. It might help... (or not). https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=18728-Calculating-Speed Sorry if that doesn't quite do it, but hopefully someone else has some info!

2010-08-05 12:45:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Thanks, doesn;t really answer my query though. thinking about it, the speed number seems arbitrary. As a motor bolt set to speed=2 doesn't rotate at twice the rate of a speed=1. It isn't for travelling, I'm trying to make a very complicated music sequencer, and need to work out exact rotation speeds for things like single-time/double-time etc. The size of what is rotating is not relevant - only the rotation speed. The incredibly vague "speed" value isn't helping much.

2010-08-05 12:49:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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I'm trying to do the exact same thing. I want to get the wheel to do 360* in precicely the right amount of time so I can place mag switches in exactly the right spot. It is essential for my beatbox machine level.

2010-08-05 12:53:00 Author: Strangepom Posts: 445

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Sounds like we're working on roughly the same idea. A definitive guide to motor-bolt speeds would be very handy

2010-08-05 13:01:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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Yeah... it is simply a range of numbers and you have to play. When I have used things like this for timing, I get out my trusty stopwatch. Sometimes emitters are handy for sequenced events usage as at least you can set the number of seconds to emit a key as well as lifetime. However, for your application that probably isn't helping much either!!

2010-08-05 13:05:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Emitters make a noise when the emitted object vanishes, so not realy any good for a music based level - where every sound made is important. A Speed to RPM guide is what we need. I think it's funny that we've been using motor-bolts for so long with such little understanding on what the numbers actually mean

2010-08-05 13:10:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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I'm not sure if this is true but it seems right. Incremental bolts work on setting the speed to match an angle. So if you want a bolt with ten increments you divide 360* by ten and set the bolt to a speed of 36 or if you want 15 set it to a speed of 24. Then make it move for 0.1 seconds. So going by that setting a motor bolt to 36 would give you 60RPM since it moves 36* every 0.1 seconds so therefore it would move 360* every 1 second. As I said I'm not sure if this is correct, I've never tested it, but it seems logical. Maybe somone can comfirm it or you could test it yourself. So the function would be (SPEED x 10) ---------------- = RPM .......6 If this is correct and you double bolted every layer, including theck and thack, you could get a wheel spinning at 800RPM

2010-08-05 13:15:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

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not really stopwatch still relies on human reaction time although to get an acurate time you could put a mag switch in the center set to 180* and emit blocks at 0.1s each into a pit, count the blocks and multiply by 2 after a rotation then you would have an acurate time for a rotation. if you start the rotaion with the mag switch field away from your static key you will have the best chance for an acurate result. PLS post the results for different speeds in this thread. I'm away from my PS3 but that should work. After about 4 or 5 speeds you should be able to calculate if they go up incrementaly or expanentialy.

2010-08-05 13:17:00 Author: Strangepom Posts: 445

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Emitters make a noise when the emitted object vanishes, so not realy any good for a music based level - where every sound made is important. Yeah.. I know, just tossing that out there in case. Unless maybe you had the emitters WAAAY off camera somewhere just to trigger a mag switch back down to the player area, but even then it could get pretty darn nutty. There might be a guide somewhere to motorbolt speed.. I just found that only reference when I searched. Hopefully Aya or somebody will come up with something for you soon. not really stopwatch still relies on human reaction time ...actually more than close enough for anything I have ever needed. Your needs may need more critical timing rather than my.. "oh I need about a minute". lol

2010-08-05 13:18:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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So the function would be (SPEED x 10) ---------------- = RPM .......6 If this is correct and you double bolted every layer, including theck and thack, you could get a wheel spinning at 800RPM Of course, the flux capacitator would have kicked in long before then and you'd find yourself in 1955

2010-08-05 13:52:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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I think this explained in detail in this thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=27802-Motor-Bolts-Speed...&highlight=motor). 0.2 on a motor bolt is exactly 1 rpm (takes 60 seconds to make a full rotation). 0.4 is 2 rpms, 0.8 is 4, 1 is 5 rpms, and so on. Every 0.2 you add to the motor bolt speed adds one rpm, so it's nothing to do with factors. If you set the motor to 60 then you'll get 300 rpms. It's late and I'm tired, so I'm probably wrong, but it would seem the math doesn't work out for the degrees. If it goes .2 degrees in .1 second, then that would equal to 2 degrees per second. If that were true, then in 60 seconds, it would only go 120 degrees: just a third of what it actually goes. Again, I'm half asleep right now, so there may be some obvious math thing I'm missing, and the degrees of rotation thing has worked when I've made incremental bolts, so I'm not sure where the discrepancy is.

2010-08-05 16:32:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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That was a very interesting thread. We had two seemingly contradictory behaviors between motor bolts used in normal situations and those used in incremental bolt situations (that's what I was talking about in the second paragraph of the quoted post) and I ended up learning a bit more about the precise timings of things in lbp. If you're into logic with precise timings or incremental bolts, it's worth a read.

2010-08-05 19:51:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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So I was wrong. Thought I would be I'm just wondering why incremental bolts work now.

2010-08-05 22:37:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431

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hmm it is definately interesting. My particular project relies on a constant speed of a precicely mesured rotation. Because I am doing repeating sequences that are activated by the proximity of a mag key on a piston I need to know that none of my beat sequences are going to get out of sync. As I cannot put a mag switch directly onto a bolt I'll play with scale to get as close as possiable and make the rotation slow to get the max emitted objects then I should be accurate to within a 10000th of a second or so (approx).

2010-08-06 01:10:00 Author: Strangepom Posts: 445

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Emitters make a noise when the emitted object vanishes, so not realy any good for a music based level - where every sound made is important. couldn't you take advantage of that using "on destruct" settings of the sound objects. Would have to take delay of lifetime setting into account for proper timing. Does emitted glass make a sound when it vanishes?

2010-08-06 01:18:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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couldn't you take advantage of that using "on destruct" settings of the sound objects. Would have to take delay of lifetime setting into account for proper timing. Does emitted glass make a sound when it vanishes? NIce find there on the RPMs. I suppose I could even incorperate the "vanishing *poof*" noise of emitted objects as a kind of purcussive insrument. But with the amount of different sound objects I'm planning on the music sequencer, it'd be a cacophony. I believe even glass makes the vanishing noise when it dissolves at the end of it's life time

2010-08-06 12:11:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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Maybe a way to measure the RPM is if you can make a key switch and stick it on the side of the spinning object and make the trigger radius as small as possible then link the switch to say an emitter that makes a counter or drops countable objects into an area? Just my thoughts

2010-08-06 12:24:00 Author: Apocalyptic-Nut Posts: 5

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So I was wrong. Thought I would be I'm just wondering why incremental bolts work now. You and I both. As per the original poster, incremental bolts do work well for a sequencer. Make sure you check out the latter portions of this thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=19915-Incremental-Bolt). It's a bit contradictory to the RPM calculations, but it's very reliable. You can just let your flipper piston run freely, or you can use a free-emitting emitter like I do. Word of caution, switch triggered emitters are inconsistent and unreliable. Edit: to elaborate that last point... If the lifetime is set for .1 seconds, it will sometimes emit for .15 seconds. This is bad for incremental bolts.

2010-08-06 13:13:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Thanks guys. The RPM guide was a great help in creating my music sequencer. It's now available for play if anyone cares to try it out. "Magical Musical Workshop" - link in my sig Muchos Gracias

2010-08-11 09:12:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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Ok, so the RPM guide was a great help with my last Music Sequencer level; But now I'm getting more ambitious. I didn't really understand fully the "Incremental Bolts" system - in theory fine - in practice no. Well, now I've played the Incremental Bolts tutorial level... and I'm still a teeny bit stumped as to how I'd make a 4*/8*/16* incremental bolt . Can anyone (who's already done these calculations) give me some pointers? The idea is to have an incremental bolt move onto it's next increment for each full revolution by a 2nd wheel. Setting a mag key on the wheel instead of having a push button is easy enough... but what's the settings for *4/*8/*16 increments?

2010-08-16 14:20:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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Setting a mag key on the wheel instead of having a push button is easy enough... but what's the settings for *4/*8/*16 increments? I believe it's as simple as dividing the number of degrees in a circle (360) by the number of discrete positions you want, and using that as the speed on the motor bolt, so *4 would be 90 (not really possible since max speed is 60), 8 would be 45, and 16 would be 22.5. I believe if you increase the flipper duration from 0.1s to 0.2s, then you can halve the speeds, which would make *4 possible. I've never tried it tho'.

2010-08-16 16:42:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Indeed, you need the flipper piston to be set to .2, which actually means the switch will be activated for .15 seconds (don't ask). Thus, you don't halve the speeds, you cut them into thirds (from your desired angle sweep). In the end, the speed must be 30 for a 4-stop incremental bolt. Crank it to 60 and you can have a 2-stop incremental bolt. Halve it to 15, and then 7.5 and you've got your 8-stop and 16-stop bolts. Let me just hop onto LBP and verify that for ya. Confirmed. Using a second controller, ftw: http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2748/aphoto92.jpg http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9495/aphotox.jpg http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5497/aphoto91.jpg There's kind of a sweet spot for tweaking the mag key switch trigger area. I've shown the picture there, but it might be hard to see. Just fiddle until you get it right.

2010-08-16 17:27:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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You are a diamond. All questions answered plus more I hadn't even asked yet. That's exactly what I needed, thank you!

2010-08-16 19:30:00 Author: Macnme Posts: 1970

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