LBP Showcase / Reviews / Recommendations #1
Thermo Optimised Logic Pack
Archive: 55 posts
| Thermo Optimised Logic Pack by: c_mckamey and Luos_Desruc Psn: c_mckamey Hello fellow gadders, Today me and Clay will be releasing a logic pack to make the life for the average creator a little easier until lbp2 hits the shelf. (Needs POTC and MGS dlc) This level is part of "Logic Island and the Switch-Trigger Tribe (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=30860-Logic-Island-and-the-Switch-Trigger-Tribe)" level I am releasing today as well! The pack contains mostly out of the basic and/or/delay/etc logic, all optimised on usage of objects/corners, connectors and switches. But also uses the not so often mentioned and used waterswitch, which in a level with non-waving water can result in reducing the amout of switches by a massive amount. Most of the logic is modular, meaning you can put them next to eachother on grid, place a little square of DM on the DM-edges to make one big tree of the logic, which can result in using less objects for your logic. (Saved me many many times). But the level also contains the cut-scene logic and lighting logic that I always use in my levels, Lots of people have been asking about them so I made sure that its easy/ready to use and even added a small example in the level for people who dont understand it at first. All logic has a speechbubble nearby explaining what the logic is. Here is a list of whats in the pack: Perma Logic: 1x Perma 4x Perma 6x Perma (Only works if output results in "On") Floaty Perma Logic: (The dissolve on this logic is glitched floaty, as long as you keep the logic on grid, you can reset it by pulling the Floaty back to original place, just in case I stickered the Dissolve) 1x Floaty Perma 2x Floaty Perma 4x Floaty Perma 8x Floaty Perma - All using only one key. Delay Logic 1x delay 2x delay 4x delay 8x delay - All using only one key OR logic 1x OR (2 inputs) 2x OR (2 inputs) 4x OR (2 inputs) 8x OR (2 inputs) 1x OR (3 inputs) 2x OR (3 inputs) 4x Or (3 inputs) 1x OR (4 inputs) 2x OR (4 inputs) 4x Or (4 inputs) - All using one key AND Logic 1x AND (2 inputs) 2x AND (2 inputs) 4x AND (2 inputs) 8x AND (2 inputs) 1x AND (3 inputs) 2x AND (3 inputs) 4x AND (3 inputs) 1x AND (4 inputs) 2x AND (4 inputs) 4x AND (4 inputs) - All using one key. Fast Reset Delay Logic 1x FRD 2x FRD 4x FRD - All using one key. Toggle Logic 1x Toggle logic (4 objects with 13 corners in total, 2 pistons, magkey, magswitch) 6x Toggle logic (Very optimal, can reduce toggle amouth by cutting away parts) - (19 objects with 58 corners total, 12 pistons, 1 magkey, 6 magswitches) 3-Way Control Logic 1x 3WC 2x 3WC 4 Output Toggle Corner optmised. H2O Logic: (with examples) - Not so optimal H2O perma - Optimal Directional Perma - 1x 2 input AND - 4x 2 input AND - 1x 3 input AND - 2x 3 input AND - 1x 4input AND - 2x 4input AND - 1x 2 input Or - 4x 2 input Or - 4x Delay - Fast reset Delay - Switcher - 4 Way Toggle (will have some updates shortly) Extras Cutscene Logic: Paintswitch-Counter Emitter with paintbal shoots at a frequency of 0.6 second. Each Paintswitch is set to a certain number. First paintswitch is set to 1, so it goes of after first hit. After that its (Time of speech * 2 + Previous paintswitch hits). So if the first speechbubble takes 6 seconds to read you add 13 paintbubble hits in the 2ndpaintswitch, which will trigger a new speechbubble around the time the previous speechbubble has been read. For me this has never failed, but you can adjust the emitter frequency and paintswitches to your own liking. When done, you can dissolve the entire Paintswitch counter. But the Paintswitch Counter can also be used for Connectors, sequences, bossfights etc. Normal Mouthboard: Thin slabs of Dissolve attached to a small triangle of DM, When slightly rotated you can make both the dissolve and the DM invissible. This means you can practically hide the mouths anywhere you want. You can attach a wire to the dissolve, to make it (and all the mouths) dissolve when the cutscene is over, This can be very handy as players who jump into the game halfway will often retrigger switches set to 1shot/on. But there are also people who do not care about speechbubbles and cutscenes and just continue their unread journey... In that case a proximity switch further along the way can dissolve all the mouths making the cutscene camera's dissapear.. which makes the players life a lot better) Advanced Mouthboard: This one has seperate dissolve for each mouth, making your timing more crucial as you want to make sure people have read the whole speechbubble.. (Even foreigners who do not have english as their first language, or kids who still have trouble reading). So if the first mouth has been read, the second paintswitch will both activate the next speechbubble, and dissolve the previous one. Examples of both are in the level for your convienience! Luos's Lighting & Sound logic. Just some advanded lighting control I made for my sack the legendary levels. You can allways delete parts you dont need. Glitched Fairy light. Reproduced by me and clay to minimize the amount of corners on it. The lightsource is deattached from the fairy light object, this is very handy if you want to lit up a room or sky and dont want to hide pesky LEDs or Fairy lights. The moment you try it out youll go "OMG I wish I had that years ago!" There are a few speechbubbles in the playable section of the level mentioning the lbpc logic pack and how to search for them in LBP, I also wrote a notice to visit Aya042 his glitch level and TheAdipose his layer glitch tools. | 2010-07-21 16:11:00 Author: Luos_83  Posts: 2136 |
| Amazing stuff! Thanks a lot! | 2010-07-21 17:06:00 Author: monstahr  Posts: 1361 |
The paintswitch_counter is really useful. Thank you  . | 2010-07-21 17:40:00 Author: AbstractFlesh  Posts: 837 |
hay, luos i downloded this lv and i couldent go on create mode because it used the 'verabee' sticker kit  | 2010-07-21 20:06:00 Author: snail_po01  Posts: 85 |
| really? Ill try to locate it and rip it out! | 2010-07-21 20:56:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
Oh! That's nice! Thanks for taking time to do this for us. It sounds very helpful and just great!  | 2010-07-21 21:01:00 Author: piggabling  Posts: 2979 |
| Ugh. I played the Logic IslAND level, which was pretty dang cool. The insertion of ORs and ANDs was funny, AND it looked nice. I gave it 5 stars, and regard it as my favORite level of yours. That said, please, please, please, for the love of god, stop spreading the lies that triangles are lower thermo than squares. It ruined the logic showcase for me. In addition, many of those switches are not optimized, so I have a hard time supporting this. Go run the tests for yourself: How many fit into a level? Squares - 2496 Triangles - 2496 Rectangles - 2496 Right Triangles - 2496 Irregular Triangles - 2496 There is no benefit to using any kind of triangle, apart from looking less tidy. Why go through all the hassle? --- It also felt like much of what you showcased was just copied from rtm's logic blog. Edit: Oh, and another thing... the water logic isn't really new. Rtm suggested it many months ago, but the benefits are quite small at the end of the day. It's cool, yeah... but if you share keys anyways, what's the point? Dated 9/22/2009, during the water beta testing phase: So I thought I'd finally reached the pinnacle of low thermo logic gate design, when I realised I can replace my mag switches with water switches and my mag keys with water :o You can even use the waves to implement timing circuits and sychronisation circuits! Obviously this will only work in levels where the water level is fixed, or doesn't vary much, and the waves aren't too big, but still, it's great  I expect exactly 0 people to be as excited about this as me but I thought I'd share anyway :hero: | 2010-07-21 21:33:00 Author: comphermc  Posts: 5338 |
| Well, I have to say I'm very impressed with the pack. The cutscene logic was very helpful, I've always used a piston with a mag key with some mag switches. Guess I can do cutscenes like the big guys now! Regarding water logic, is there an upside to using it? Less thermo? | 2010-07-21 21:55:00 Author: talbot-trembler  Posts: 1114 |
| @ Comph, Im not posting this as wow luos created logic, Its just the logic I often use in my/c_m's levels, obviously I have studied rtm's blogs and that results in the logic created. (whats wrong with using information from others and applying it in your own work.. I dont think rtm only wrote that blog for himself.. could be.. who knows )I personally dont see anything bad about that, its just a pack for people to use. Also aya allready showed me that post, though that post has been written a long time ago, I found the waterswitch logic idea myself prior to any influences from the outside. Nontheless, it might not have catched on, but saving some keys has allready saved my behind. Also would you be willing to share how to make the logic more optimal, that would be usefull, not only for me but many others. I never mentioned that using waterswitches is new, dunno where you got that from. On a small sidenote, I dont know if this is the case in the lbp engine, but if you have 100 squares, and make triangles of them, that saves you 100 corners, but even more.. save you 100 polygons, all using 3 corners that must count for something on the long run. | 2010-07-21 23:26:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| Also would you be willing to share how to make the logic more optimal, that would be usefull, not only for me but many others. I never mentioned that using waterswitches is new, dunno where you got that from. For one, the toggle switches. Check out this thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=21996-Lowest-Thermo-Toggle-%28lol%29). For the higher order toggle switches, check this thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=19915-Incremental-Bolt).* Mainly, I'm bothered by the triangles, as it not only bugs me on a personal level (looking less organized, dissatisfying my OCD), but it also makes anyone who plays the level (and doesn't know better) think that it makes any bit of difference. It's just extra hassle to deal with for no gain. On a small sidenote, I dont know if this is the case in the lbp engine, but if you have 100 squares, and make triangles of them, that saves you 100 corners, but even more.. save you 100 polygons, all using 3 corners that must count for something on the long run. See, I get the feeling that you are making assumptions about how thermo is calculated. I again invite you to go test it out. Corners are not a clear factor when dealing with squares/triangles. It may be a factor for more complicated shapes, but not in this case. Make 100 squares and delete one corner from each, and you will not see any change in the thermo. *The caveat to these is that (if designed correctly), they require an additional magnetic key switch. But, this is done in a way to gain reliability and to reduce latency. You don't have to worry about your little blocker breaking or anything of this sort...everything switches at .05 seconds. Edit: I didn't manage to see the cutscene logic while I was poking around, but I will review that once I've seen it. I'm wondering if it's optimized as well. Be back later with that. | 2010-07-21 23:46:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| Triangle vs square.....you're both right. Just depends on what thermometer you're fighting. If your shapes/object thermometer is popping then triangles do no more good than squares. If you need more geometry then yes triangles will help...albeit to a slim degree, but then again sometimes that's all you need. | 2010-07-22 01:59:00 Author: Jaeyden  Posts: 564 |
| Which thermo is geometry? These are the littlebigplanet thermos: * Complex Shapes * Materials * Stickers and Decorations * Collected Objects * Objects being too close together * Moving Objects * Objects and Shapes * Emitters * Creature Brains * Connectors | 2010-07-22 03:09:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| Sorry bro..lol. I always just referred to it as geometry but it would be the complicated shapes thermo. Edit: I take back what I said. Edit: I take back what I took back...lol O.K. big edit. First I thought I was right...then I started testing it and thought I was wrong then I started testing more and now I think I'm right again. It really all depends... as far as I can tell. It seems (and maybe someone has done more research on this) that the complicated shapes thermo and the objects/shapes thermo are semi-dependent upon each other. They seem to calculate differently depending on how many shapes you have in your level + how many vertices you have in your level + how many vertices are in each of those shapes. You can get 2496 seven sided shapes into a level..that's 17472 vertices. Now try it with eight sided, I managed 2134 eight sided shapes and got 17,072 vertices. Twelve sided shapes will get you 12,540 vertices or about 1045 shapes. You can put like 1800 squares and around 400 twelve sided shapes into a level. Corner edit 100 of those squares and you still can't add anything, now corner edit one of the twelve sided and you can add more squares...... I ran your scenarios Comphy, and under rigid stress test circumstances the thermo will treat a triangle the same as a square, you can corner edit 500 squares into triangles and you still won't see the thermo move. I also loaded a couple of my own levels that are maxed on the complicated shapes thermo to the point that adding one square of dark matter will pop the thermo. I then started corner editing all of my square logic into triangles and low and behold I was able to add in a square for every couple of corners I removed. I'm going to test some more stuff but for now this one is up in the air. Final Edit: I've done as much testing for the night as I can and I still think you are BOTH right, it all depends on the sum of your level. Under most circumstances, the triangle is probably best even if it does look ugly. | 2010-07-22 04:08:00 Author: Jaeyden Posts: 564 |
| I'll just pop in to talk about the triangles from a logic newbie's point of view. I've always used messy logic so you'd think the triangles thing wouldn't bug me. But I really had to unattach keys and switches just to see what something was doing, where it was connected. And they looked terribly ugly. I know the pack wasn't considered for basic logic creators like me, but I really was put off by the thermo optimised switches. I loved the cutscene logic which was very new to me, but the triangles were a bit *meh* | 2010-07-22 09:54:00 Author: talbot-trembler Posts: 1114 |
| When I went through my level (in sig) optimising stuff a while ago. I went through and cut a corner from each square of dark matter (just for giggles), I -thought- I saw a visible reduction in the thermo, but now you guys have me second guessing myself. Logic 101 link anywhere guys? | 2010-07-22 10:55:00 Author: midnight_heist  Posts: 2513 |
| See, I get the feeling that you are making assumptions about how thermo is calculated. I again invite you to go test it out. Corners are not a clear factor when dealing with squares/triangles. It may be a factor for more complicated shapes, but not in this case. Make 100 squares and delete one corner from each, and you will not see any change in the thermo.No matter how you put it that is a waste of good vertexes and polygons. that said. Would you not be able to add more corners on one object, if you remove more from others? Because I do really think that this saved my creator-life in sack 6-1 and clay will probably agree with that. I will read those logic-threads and study em religiously, cant believe I havent noticed those. Oh, and personally I like triangles. A lot | 2010-07-22 11:48:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| i BET someone has seen this before but it might help http://www.youtube.com/user/MediaMolecule#p/u/12/wouW9v3A_Ng | 2010-07-22 18:19:00 Author: snail_po01 Posts: 85 |
| That video is lies, but thanks anyways. | 2010-07-22 18:55:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| I dont know if this is the case in the lbp engine, but if you have 100 squares, and make triangles of them, that saves you 100 corners, but even more.. save you 100 polygons... Not necessarily. If we were talking actual flat polygons, then that would be the case, but you have to remember that materials in lbp will be beveled or rounded, so you can't get an exact count on the number of polygons an object will have. In general, of course, an object that you give more vertices to is going to have more polygons, but one vertex may or may not have a significant impact. In any case, it has been repeatedly demonstrated that you can get the same number of triangles into a level as squares, so there's no advantage. | 2010-07-22 21:05:00 Author: Sehven  Posts: 2188 |
| Just to interject some more confusion into the complex shapes thermo debate.... My personal testing shows that default triangles and squares are equal in the eyes of the thermo, but custom triangles can be > than default squares. TBH, I seen a lot of weird stuff when testing the complex shapes thermo, and honestly I've not seen any theories that actually cover them all. THe complex shapes thermo is a lot less simple that people seem to give it credit for IMO. | 2010-07-22 21:26:00 Author: rtm223  Posts: 6497 |
| I remember in my mmorpg-creating days that a lot, A LOT of people where happy because we losed 2 polygons on a tree.. that tree was used around 400-600 times in one world, so.. that resulted in 800 or 1200 polygons less.. back in the day.. that was a lot. Ill probably will keep using triangles myself though, just for my own mind-calmth. From the moment I learned 3dsmax, Ive allways removed any corner or polygon i could.. and it annoys me if i see a square .. it really does *fingers itches* | 2010-07-22 21:36:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| yep, but the thermo isn't a calculation based purely on rendering requirements.... I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before luos | 2010-07-22 21:40:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| Not sure if this confuses or helps anything.. Things get weird when a level is full! ..besides panic that you aren't done yet! lol However,.when I have had the complex shapes warning and finally yelled at me that I could not add anything else. It was by cutting vertices off of other shapes, I could add a few more elsewhere. Basically it was "take away one here and add another there". Now I didn't trim any corners off logic, but I did do that with some of my logic labels. Yeah.. I label just about everything... :blush: Later on I started pulling some of the labels completely so I could add much more, but prior to that I made rectangle signs to larger triangles and it was allowing me to add vertices one for one. | 2010-07-22 21:50:00 Author: jwwphotos  Posts: 11383 |
| @ rtm I know and I know you are (both) telling the truth, and I might sound ignorant.. and.. i might be from time to time.. wait.. no.. I am ignorant I refuse your logics and substitute it for my own! I was just saying that I personally rather have triangles, and because of my work i am a triangle who.. cant say that word here. If I ever release a new pack (doubt it ), ill make sure comph and rtm smack me around a few times with a trout-object to make it (more) thermo friendly.All kidding aside, I would kill to have some coderdude from MM to explain the thermo in detail. (if i am talking gibberish, a girl i really like is flirting with me.. so got too much adrenaline rushing through my body) /goes off to build more levels. | 2010-07-22 22:07:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| A girl you like is flirting with you and your response is to go build levels? I'm not sure about your priorities Just kidding. I'm sure that wasn't how you meant it, but that's just how it came across and I couldn't just let it lie there without saying something snarky. | 2010-07-23 18:58:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
| he must show her his love in the purest form he knows possible! | 2010-07-23 19:43:00 Author: monstahr Posts: 1361 |
| Pure and naked logic, dark matter and dissolve. and shes falling for it.. mainly because she fell outside of the level | 2010-07-23 19:56:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| hey luos, i was trying to remake your cutsene logic and how is it that the paint switches are affected in sequence?? 1, 2 ,3,4,5 all in one block?? Thanks! | 2010-07-23 21:54:00 Author: shadowsythe456732  Posts: 176 |
| hey luos, i was trying to remake your cutsene logic and how is it that the paint switches are affected in sequence?? 1, 2 ,3,4,5 all in one block?? Thanks! Put multiple paint switches on one object and give them each a different trigger number. Have one paint switch with a trigger number of one, another paint switch with a trigger number of two, etc. Just remember that paint switches with 1-shot outputs reset when they run out, so it won't always work with 1-shot outputs, depending on what the output goes to. | 2010-07-23 23:40:00 Author: Incinerator22  Posts: 3251 |
| Just remember that paint switches with 1-shot outputs reset when they run out, so it won't always work with 1-shot outputs, depending on what the output goes to. Fun fact: they don't reset when not wired to anything. How is that useful? It isn't. Just spreading the knowledge... (Also, I've been drinking) | 2010-07-24 05:03:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| Fun fact: they don't reset when not wired to anything. How is that useful? It isn't. Just spreading the knowledge... (Also, I've been drinking) get hammered post on internet videogame forums ????? profit | 2010-07-24 05:25:00 Author: monstahr Posts: 1361 |
| (Also, I've been drinking) Someone whos name I shall not mention was drunk online a few days ago as well. What did he do you might ask? try to select the start gate 16 times before he succeeded. Smeared DM through his new level, didnt know it.. went to play mode and did not understad why we hit a dead DM end. He said the level sucked. Went to another level, was not able to get the CP in a small room and went. HELP ME! HELP ME!!!! LUOS HELP MEE!!!! Then he said the level was awesome (wasnt finished.. but cant argue with a drunk person), he published the level and wrote in its comments "Play this! its good". The next morning he had a hangover, and luckily was able to find a backup of his level on a usb stick. | 2010-07-24 12:36:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| ^ See kids, drinking is not the answer! | 2010-07-24 12:38:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| But.. The answer to some questions.. Can be drinking! "honey, what have you been doing last night?" well. drinking! "Why did you kiss that other woman!!!" well. drinking! "Why did you smear DM all through my hair!" well. drinking! "Why did you post strange stuff on lbpc?" well.. Drinking! Also, very logical that a logic pack ends up somewhat spammy But since I mentioned "Logic" its somewhat.. on topic right! (I never drink alcohol related substances though) | 2010-07-24 13:24:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| Speaking of liquidy substances, does the water logic help the thermo at all? Or are they just put in for fun while drinking? | 2010-07-24 17:55:00 Author: talbot-trembler Posts: 1114 |
| Im too scared to answer, dont want comph or rtm to hit me with a trout But basically, the water is a key for the waterswitch. so you could replace a lot of keys with water.. in theory.. | 2010-07-24 18:32:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| Thanks, Luos. Sorry about the stupid question. It's hot over here in Ireland and my brain has melted... | 2010-07-24 18:38:00 Author: talbot-trembler Posts: 1114 |
| That said, please, please, please, for the love of god, stop spreading the lies that triangles are lower thermo than squares. It ruined the logic showcase for me. In addition, many of those switches are not optimized, so I have a hard time supporting this. Go run the tests for yourself: How many fit into a level? Squares - 2496 Triangles - 2496 Rectangles - 2496 Right Triangles - 2496 Irregular Triangles - 2496 There is no benefit to using any kind of triangle, apart from looking less tidy. Why go through all the hassle? Problem is that your tests are inconclusive. By comparing only 3- and 4-vertex shapes, you're hitting the limit of the "shapes and collected objects" thermo, before the point where the "complex shapes" thermo becomes an issue. There aren't many real levels which never use a shape with more than 4 vertices. Try placing a load of more complex shapes in the level first, and then see how many triangles vs. squares you can fit in. The experiments I conducted when I was testing out the limitations of thermo-cheatery would suggest you will notice a difference. Also aya allready showed me that post, though that post has been written a long time ago, I found the waterswitch logic idea myself prior to any influences from the outside. Actually, I showed you this blog entry (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/entry.php?886-Water-logic), in which there's a comment from comphermc which alludes to the idea using water instead of mag keys. The post which was quoted earlier was never made public (until now). If we were talking actual flat polygons, then that would be the case, but you have to remember that materials in lbp will be beveled or rounded, so you can't get an exact count on the number of polygons an object will have. You're correct from a rendering POV, but from the experiments I previously conducted, the thermo doesn't take this into account. It probably assumes a worst case, and limits you based on that. What you might notice, however, is that material-changing a large number of "sharp-edged" materials (like wood) to a rounded material (like sponge), will cause a dip in the framerate. | 2010-07-25 15:26:00 Author: Aya042  Posts: 2870 |
| Cool, also Logic island was EPIC! | 2010-07-25 18:54:00 Author: Unknown User  |
| Lol History pack is in here too... either advertise that the level requires it, or take those stickers off that hut. All i foud was the hut stickers, might be more... | 2010-07-31 23:57:00 Author: raitoningu  Posts: 21 |
| HI Luos! This Pack seems extravagantly helpful! But sadly i can't use it since the History pack is apparently in the level? Q_Q | 2010-08-01 00:08:00 Author: Noroibito  Posts: 211 |
| Well at least Im not alone, from what I see, h2O switches are worth the effort, as hardly anyone uses that bottom piece of a level. | 2010-08-01 01:38:00 Author: raitoningu Posts: 21 |
| history pack being used? Im sure to check it out and remove them. | 2010-08-02 16:07:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| It MIGhT be the stickers on that hut? Not too sure. | 2010-08-02 21:29:00 Author: raitoningu Posts: 21 |
| It MIGhT be the stickers on that hut? Not too sure. I just tried picking those up with the sticker tool. Yupp, couldn't grab em! Definitely them. | 2010-08-04 16:57:00 Author: Noroibito Posts: 211 |
| Ok, the stickers should be removed, Adi pointed out a bug in the floaty perma's, but still need to update those. | 2010-08-05 16:21:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| With all the talk about squares and triangles, it has me wondering if circles would make a difference at all. I know the Mm video isn't entirely accurate, but circles don't have corners, would they help? | 2010-08-12 00:23:00 Author: Rottinghouse  Posts: 143 |
| With all the talk about squares and triangles, it has me wondering if circles would make a difference at all. I know the Mm video isn't entirely accurate, but circles don't have corners, would they help? Circles are great from a simulation POV, but not from a rendering POV, and sadly the thermo takes both into account. Triangles will save you points on the complex shapes thermo, and if you have to need to be that thermo-efficient, that's the best you can do, unless you care to dabble in the dangerous world of two- or one-vertex shapes, but you'll probably crash your PS3 in the process. | 2010-08-12 00:31:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870 |
unless you care to dabble in the dangerous world of two- or one-vertex shapes, but you'll probably crash your PS3 in the process. . You can make two- or one-vertex shapes? | 2010-08-12 00:42:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251 |
| Circles are great from a simulation POV, but not from a rendering POV, and sadly the thermo takes both into account. Triangles will save you points on the complex shapes thermo, and if you have to need to be that thermo-efficient, that's the best you can do, unless you care to dabble in the dangerous world of two- or one-vertex shapes, but you'll probably crash your PS3 in the process. I think I'll just stick with the LBPC logic packs I end up with a jumbled mess if I try to come up with my own. It works just fine, but it's a mess | 2010-08-12 00:45:00 Author: Rottinghouse Posts: 143 |
| . You can make two- or one-vertex shapes? Well, I've made two-vertex shapes before, but they crash the PS3 enough that I'm too scared to attempt a one-vertex shape. | 2010-08-12 00:51:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870 |
| How that can be possible? Could you share your technique with us? | 2010-08-12 19:21:00 Author: waD_Delma  Posts: 282 |
| Actually, aya.. do you mean 2 corners as in a line, or two corners in front view with z-axis visuals? if so, its still 2 polygons.. | 2010-08-12 19:40:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
| Actually, aya.. do you mean 2 corners as in a line, or two corners in front view with z-axis visuals? if so, its still 2 polygons.. Two corners in a line. Using a combination of grid mode and the corner editor, you can place, say, the three vertices of a triangle all along the same line, and since LBP automatically removes unnecessary vertices (i.e. those which are exactly on a line between two other vertices), you end up with a two-vertex shape, and presumably if you place all three vertices at the same grid position, you end up with a one-vertex shape, although I've never tried. Be warned, though: once you've created one, expect serious crashiness, so I'd advise making a profile backup first, if you intend to experiment with these. | 2010-08-12 20:12:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870 |
| I wont try, Ill just wait for you to go offline and within 1 minute back online | 2010-08-12 22:32:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136 |
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