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Scientific Discussion

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Me and some friends were kinda talking about the big bang, and I thought... Well, everything has to start somewhere, somehow and some time... Soooo... How did the universe come to be? And what was there before the universe?

SOOO CONFUSING!!

I just thought I'd leave you with that to ponder on.... Any theories other than "nothingness" ? Because obviously nothing can come from nothing!

EDIT: This seems to be turning into a science-ey discussion... I love science-ey discussions! ^_^ Let's talk science, theories and other related stuff more


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhTSfOZUNLo		2010-07-14 20:45:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

I have long since come to the conclusion that the fact that ANYTHING exists is, in itself, a paradox, and thus nothing exists.

I have since decided to give existence the proverbial middle finger.		2010-07-14 20:47:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

The big bounce pretty much sums it up for me. What really hurts my brain is the grandfather paradox of time travel. If you travel back in time to kill the anscestors of someone that's tormented you your whole life, when you kill them the tormenter dies but then the motive dies too which causes the bully to be both alive and dead at the same time... Ow!2010-07-14 21:04:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

I just go with the flow. Why hurt yourself over something when you got scientist for that, is what I say.2010-07-14 21:09:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

/ agreed with RAWK, and Kernelm, in fact... didn't rocksauron make a little story concerning time travel... i think he did... can you help me remember what it was called dude? i remember it was very awesome (@rocksauron)

btw, if someone says that before the universe there was chuck norris, i will bang my head against a wall...		2010-07-14 21:11:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

it goes like this. there was a small singularity created by who knows what, the singularity exploded and what was contained inside the singularity expanded and cooled as it was expanding thus creating the universe what created the singularity is unanswerable by athiests muslims ,cristians ,jews and whatever other religions exist. it is safe to assume that whatever in gods name came first popped out of nowhere because there are NO other answers to that question and then created this and that and what not and that probably lead up to the big bang and then stars, galaxies, planets neblulas, blah blah blah, and then eventually us and theres no doubt about it some other someone out there in the universe what with all the trillions of planets and vast amount of space in the universe hell there might even be other universes we may never know or we might find out tommorow or the next day. as human beings we either have to wait for an answer or find an answer. i choose find what about you?2010-07-14 21:16:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513

Yeah, time travel is crazy. I was watching a show with gamma ribbons/loop.... wow It's just crazy. Fly a rocket through a gamma ribbon loop and travel back in time? Also, slingshotting yourself around a star at 99.98% the speed of light and travelling into the future is mind boggling.

BUT, the worst of all is quantum physics. Oh I don't even want to get started...		2010-07-14 21:16:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

The big bounce pretty much sums it up for me. What really hurts my brain is the grandfather paradox of time travel. If you travel back in time to kill the anscestors of someone that's tormented you your whole life, when you kill them the tormenter dies but then the motive dies too which causes the bully to be both alive and dead at the same time... Ow!

That's almost word for word what I sometimes bring up in conversations concerning time travel!!		2010-07-14 21:18:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

it goes like this. there was a small singularity created by who knows what, the singularity exploded and what was contained inside the singularity expanded and cooled as it was expanding thus creating the universe what created the singularity is unanswerable by athiests muslims ,cristians ,jews and whatever other religions exist. it is safe to assume that whatever in gods name came first popped out of nowhere because there are NO other answers to that question and then created this and that and what not and that probably lead up to the big bang and then stars, galaxies, planets neblulas, blah blah blah, and then eventually us and theres no doubt about it some other someone out there in the universe what with all the trillions of planets and vast amount of space in the universe hell there might even be other universes we may never know or we might find out tommorow or the next day. as human beings we either have to wait for an answer or find an answer. i choose find what about you?

Many people would say that the singularity was a vibration from another universe which is part of a multiverse, but then that begs the question what started the multiverse

@piggabling

For those who don't know Quantum Physics says that electrons and atoms are everywhere at once, until you look at them, this should be exploited!! Now!!		2010-07-14 21:22:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Yeah, I don't like thinking of this stuff. I prefer simpler explanations... 2010-07-14 21:24:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

and another thing... if no diety created the universe? what? or is existence just... idk, have no basis? like for example, if we don't know how the universe was made... how do we know, that this is real... and what-not, for all we know, we could be dreaming now, or possibly just me, and everyone has their own universe.... and then you add in the fact that that we might not ever die... just wake up from this what might be a dream... and realize all logic in this world is illogical, or everything is possible, which would mean that everything we know is lies and then...............

after that, i just try to stop thinking about it, and say what RAWK said, as much as we know, there may as well be no existence...

**** my brain HURTS!!!		2010-07-14 21:26:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

ok first of all piggabling you couldnt time travel if you went around a star, itd have to be a supermassive black hole, second of all if you even got that close to to a star you would be a pile of pink bubbles and what in gods name is a "gamma ribbon" do you mean a wormhole? because thats to get to different areas in space not time2010-07-14 21:27:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513

Agghhh my brain, it hurts D:
Yes I have a brain		2010-07-14 21:27:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

ok first of all piggabling you couldnt time travel if you went around a star, itd have to be a supermassive black hole, second of all if you even got that close to to a star you would be a pile of pink bubbles and what in gods name is a "gamma ribbon" do you mean a wormhole? because thats to get to different areas in space not time

1. You don't understand. It's called the Theory of Relativity. You have to go around a star, not through or even that close, just enough for the gravity to keep you from flying away and to aid you to turn around. Then travelling back to Earth. Less time will have passed on the ship than on the face of the Earth.

2. And no, it's not a wormhole. Gamma ribbons aren't even proved to exist yet. They're just a theory.		2010-07-14 21:28:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

The big bounce pretty much sums it up for me. What really hurts my brain is the grandfather paradox of time travel. If you travel back in time to kill the anscestors of someone that's tormented you your whole life, when you kill them the tormenter dies but then the motive dies too which causes the bully to be both alive and dead at the same time... Ow!

Perhaps if you go back in time and change something, you create a parralel universe where in the future the thing/s you changed will be implemented. But not in the same universe you're from.		2010-07-14 21:31:00

Author:
AgentBanana
Posts: 511

asfar as i am concerned, according to this universe "logic" time travel would be impossible, and if it is (again, i don't rly care, right now i'm thinking, if there is no existence... does it matter *OW!!!*) we all know it is quite inconceivable... and honestly...

why do we care? if logic is right (again,again, doubting...) then the very possibility would change the universe itself, or possibly send you to another universe (multiverse theory...) so if that is true (OWWWWWWWW) then we could never travel to another time in our universe... but a different time in another... and then the theory that no one can see you in time travel (or a universe not your own i guess...) and that makes no sense, and the multiverse would have to have made a new copy of you in the old universe, otherwise it would collapse... which would mean (****!!!!MY BRAAAAAAIIIIINNNNN) that if you got out... you would have never left, and it would be a whole cycle... or it would be as rawk said, the universe (or multiverse.... crap, brain went numb! jk...OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWW...)would be...

i can't get any more logic in, i keep ending up at the multiverse is a giant living being... and we are the parts of its cells.... and then it gets weirder... no more logic		2010-07-14 21:40:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Just saying Sweet yes there has to be some kind of deity in existence the structure of the universe couldnt have been constructed by an inanimate object. certain things happen in certain ways because certain things react to other things like chemicals and chemical reactions. an inanimate object absolutely could NOT have concieved such a mind compelling way that things work. Certain things like this would turn athiests into catholic priests,anyone who denies a higher power is denying reality itself we have a creator and we may or may not find out why things are the way they are or who it is but we do know that someone or something is pulling our strings every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every month of every year and anyone who says there are no strings atatched are not exacly looking at their facts correctly2010-07-14 21:40:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513

Before the universe there was Chuck Norris. 2010-07-14 21:42:00

Author:
Doopz
Posts: 5592

or it could be, existence just happened... its as logical as everything else, cause who made the deity? and why should we care? we will honestly never know, and anyone that says otherwise has been smoking something.2010-07-14 21:43:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

EDIT: Nevermind :blush:2010-07-14 21:44:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Before the universe there was Chuck Norris.

*eye twitches*

*bang, bang, bang, bang!*		2010-07-14 21:44:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

That's just it. There WAS nothing before the universe, and that's something, as humans, we cannot comprehend. Try thinking of nothing. Is it just black or white? That's is something. I think it's pretty much impossible to think of nothing; our brains just can't do it.

For me, I think the universe has no beginning or end - it's infinite, like God.

Also, brain-freeze and head aches make my brain hurt.		2010-07-14 21:45:00

Author:
trip090
Posts: 1562

For those who don't know Quantum Physics says that electrons and atoms are everywhere at once, until you look at them, this should be exploited!! Now!!

There is a theory that states moments in history could be changed ever so slightly by events happening in the present and future due to electrons being linked somehow...

(I love scientific discussion!! =D )		2010-07-14 21:47:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

that makes about the same amount of sense as, there is no existence!!!... which right now, is the most...2010-07-14 21:47:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

How can anything make sense when sense doesn't even always make sense! O.o2010-07-14 21:50:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

That's just it. There WAS nothing before the universe, and that's something, as humans, we cannot comprehend. Try thinking of nothing. Is it just black or white? That's is something. I think it's pretty much impossible to think of nothing; our brains just can't do it.

I just found this here (http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Where%20universe%20from.htm):
The use of the word 'nothing' has a very special meaning in this context, unlike our every day use of the word. It means here quite literally nothing, the complete absence of everything. By definition then nothing must be an infinite void. If nothing exists it would HAVE to be infinite. This is a result of it not being allowed any boundaries, as a boundary would place a limit on nothing's size and furthermore would also indicate that there was something existing on the 'other ' side of the boundary, apart from the boundary itself existing. This would be contrary to our definition of both infinite and of nothing. This also, it should be noted, excludes anything existing in any other dimension, or dimensions, as a dimension would then be a boundary. Nothing then, when described as an infinite void, excludes all possibility of anything else existing, anywhere.

I hope I have made this point absolutely clear, this is what having nothing would mean, absolutely nothing anywhere. The only conclusion I can draw from that is nothing cannot exist, because we do.

Could nothing have existed in the past? No. If it existed in the past, then some event must have taken place to end it. An event would be impossible in nothing, so nothing could never have existed because we do, and as our universe now exists, nothing can never exist in the future either. Why could an event not happen in nothing? Because apart from the obvious that there is nothing to happen, an event would create and require a moment in time. There can be no time in nothing as relativity describes time as just another dimension.

As for Time, without it nothing must have always existed, it can not have a beginning or end because either would create a moment in time. It would in reality be meaningless to ask how long nothing has existed and how long it will continue to exist, it would be eternal and unchanging. Again, because we exist, nothing could not have had an existence because the creation of the universe would have required a significant change, thus contravening an unchanging nothing. We will look at this idea of creation in more detail later.

Nothing can not have any laws of physics because there is nothing to apply those laws to, also the very concept of having laws contravenes our description of nothing. In the absence of any basic laws, let alone matter, how could anything be created? Once again, because we exist nothing could not have.

Could the universe have been created in nothing? No, for the reasons stated above. However, just for the sake of argument, let us imagine it was. If the universe was created in nothing then where was it 'put'? If somewhere 'outside' of nothing, this would require an 'outside' to pre-exist, but it could not because that would require a boundary. It can not be ' put' within nothing, because containing a universe would no longer be within our definition of nothing.

So far then we have discovered that by using the simple definition of nothing as being an infinite void we have placed the following conditions on it:-

1) It must be timeless.

2) It must have always existed and could not have been created.

3) It is unchanging.

4) Nothing else can exist.

5) It is unable to create anything.

We have now concluded that nothing, when described as an infinite void, could never have existed because we do. There is however nothing wrong with the definition itself, the existence of nothing as an infinite void would appear to be logical, more than that, it HAS to be that way, nothing could not have any restraints of size or time placed upon it.

We now need to change our definition of nothing in order that it may contain the universe.		2010-07-14 21:54:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

and thats the sense in it... no matter what we think about before the universe... it will never make total sense, for all we know there is a giant headless fried chciken eating popcorn and laughing at us like a sit-com that made the universe/multiverse... and no one can DISPROVE OR PROVE that... so nothing will make sense, which makes the only sense right now, but i am on board with RAWK atm2010-07-14 21:55:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

the deity probably just formed. energy was probably the first thing in existence. we, human beings are powered by energy from our brain, the deity could be simply pure energy. if energy causes things to live then energy can live itself.think about ghosts, we can see them sometimes but we cant touch them. you can see electricity in lightning but you cant hold it in your hand. it can touch you though. in some cases people are grabbed by ghosts. energy creates things. its powering your computer right now, you too. if energy can do that energy can do anything. god, now my heads starting to hurt 0_o2010-07-14 21:58:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513

I wouldn't exactly pick ghosts as an example... Hah!

Not everyone, including me, believes in them...

Although, energy is the result of something, not the producer of materials... Indirectly, it will produce things, but not directly.		2010-07-14 22:00:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

BUT NOTHING IS SOMETHING SO IF YOU HAVE NOTHING YOU HAVE SOMETHING OMG PARADOX TIME WARP! omgo mgomg !2010-07-14 22:02:00

Author:
qrtda235566
Posts: 3664

and think about it... every language must have a word for energy... aura, plasma... you know... and then we are back to, how was the energy created? no sense... my thought is just as probable as yours, though energy existing in all living thing could make a rock alive... which could mean a tiny pebble made us... and again, that doesn't make total sense either2010-07-14 22:02:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Energy isn't made nor destroyed it's always there which means this singularity point contained all the energy in the universe which then means that the deity could not produce said energy thus voiding your discussion.2010-07-14 22:04:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

I don't even know anymore! I just believe energy is the result of something. Ahh!

What has ever proved the single point of energy? Ahah! 		2010-07-14 22:04:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Energy isn't made nor destroyed it's always there which means this singularity point contained all the energy in the universe which then means that the deity could not produce said energy thus voiding your discussion.

"produced"? i said that energy existed first and the deity was formed from pure energy!		2010-07-14 22:09:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513

yah... when you use energy, it doesn't vanish, it scatters... so its always there... nice fact, and it means that energy always existed... which means the...

holy crap, kernel... that means the universe/multiverse always existed!!!! but then who made the energy...if it was always there, then everything just existed... but if not, something had to make it... or thats just the logic we made up, and we have to get used to believing nothing!!!		2010-07-14 22:10:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

It had to be made. And I believe that there is a creator that had done it.

Just my opinion, guys.		2010-07-14 22:13:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

but if you where raised atheist... you would say otherwise, i chose a religion opposite of my parents, just so i wasn't brainwashed... once you are there, you realize nothing makes sense... and that makes the most sense (irony)2010-07-14 22:15:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Sorry what? Why does there have to be a higher power? If anything a consciousness allows for flaws. And I think any one thing inventing this many stars, planets, creatures, etc is bound to lead to some lazy spots and sloppy work somewhere along the way. It's not out there. Everything is a certain way because gravity allowed it along with the other forces out there. There is a system to the structures of galaxies etc, so why couldn't this all have been procedurally generated? The big bang theory doesn't speak of something inanimate, if anything it is raw energy, the kind that is capable of crafting this universe. If so much matter was condensed in a dot of space it's not unbelievable to me at least to see it all exploding back into space when the limits have been tipped, because there is always limits.

Where these forces came from, it cannot be answered, they just are. I am willing to accept that, I don't need a higher power to explain away this. I prefer trying to work it out and understand it. I am also completely content at saying this is all just pure fluke(which it wasn't, the conditions were right for life) and there is no point to it all. No one is pulling the strings other than the debt collectors and other individuals created by society who want something from you. What you do with your day is usually your choice, you pull the strings and decide when it's time to go to bed.

I don't think we will ever answer the question why? It just is, like the generation of life on a planet. The conditions were right and it just happened, like many things.

How is another big question mark, if it started with nothing how did anything come to be in the first place? Was there ever nothing? How is it possible there was nothing? We just seem to have this idea that before something appears there must be nothing, maybe it's not that way. Maybe something just always existed.

There is many automatic things in life, creatures that do things subconsciously to achieve things like avoiding collisions with each other. Space is not dead, things can survive in stasis in it. Stars are born, galaxies, likely universes. And whatever is after that. Where it stops if even I cannot know. Some things can't be answered, we are just a very curious species who need to know everything, well sometimes there is no answer.		2010-07-14 22:16:00

Author:
OneEyedBanshee
Posts: 1370

All the energy in the universe was contained in the singularity point as what I'd assume to be elastic potential energy, the big bounce theory states that the energy existed from a previous existance.

@piggabling: Energy can be changed but is never destroyed for example when you use your muscles the chemical energy in your stores is turned into kinetic and heat energy which is the result of your action.		2010-07-14 22:16:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

what religion are you swweet?

EDIT:exacty banshee there ARE flaws, double stars,red supergiants,irregular galaxies,diseases,brown dwarfs................stephanie_ravens and X3Power..........		2010-07-14 22:17:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513

but if you where raised atheist... you would say otherwise, i chose a religion opposite of my parents, just so i wasn't brainwashed... once you are there, you realize nothing makes sense... and that makes the most sense (irony)

Yes, I probably would think differently. Although, this is how I think now. This is what I'll believe to my death. I don't mind if others have different thoughts or follow different theories. I'm not going to tell anyone what to believe of how to live their life.

There went my brain. Sorry if I'm sounding "rantish" Not intentional!

@Kernel: Yeah, I know energy can be changed but isn't destroyed. I understand the bodily functions! Haha! The Law of the Conservation of Energy! 		2010-07-14 22:20:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

and that's exactly what i think, we can't know everything... all we know about this, is it doesn't make sense to us... and never will... we may believe what we want, but we will never truly know.

this thread is pointless... religion is pointless... because we will never know.

@piggabling
as a great man said... i don't quite remember whom... "i don't agree with what you say, but i will defend it to the death your right to say it!" (might have gotten a word or two wrong, same meaning though.) it means, i don't agree with what you might believe... nobody does perfectly, but i agree with your right to state it.		2010-07-14 22:20:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

I really don't want this thread to descend from scientific discussion to chilish squabbling2010-07-14 22:22:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

This is MAN SQUABBLE!

Nah, kidding!		2010-07-14 22:24:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

yes, i am not squabbling, i realized my mistake and fixed it, but yes... lets be more careful guys!2010-07-14 22:26:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Nothing I've said was intended to be taken as offensive or as "squabble." Excuse my comments. 2010-07-14 22:27:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

and another thing... if no diety created the universe? what? or is existence just... idk, have no basis? like for example, if we don't know how the universe was made... how do we know, that this is real... and what-not, for all we know, we could be dreaming now, or possibly just me, and everyone has their own universe.... and then you add in the fact that that we might not ever die... just wake up from this what might be a dream... and realize all logic in this world is illogical, or everything is possible, which would mean that everything we know is lies and then...............

after that, i just try to stop thinking about it, and say what RAWK said, as much as we know, there may as well be no existence...

**** my brain HURTS!!!
mabye your right, and thats why your brain hurts, its to stop you finding the answer O_O		2010-07-14 22:27:00

Author:
YEAH_NAH
Posts: 775

Surely the flaws prove there is no creator?

(loading justification)		2010-07-14 22:31:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

for all we can know we are nothing... but there is enough evidence to state there is none... which some people won't agree, it depends on how big the evidence is for you... for me, its big enough.2010-07-14 22:33:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

So basically, the only way to explain the existence of everything is to assume that the complicated universe was created by something even more complicated.

How nice. Nothing can be timeless, so everything was created by a timeless entity.

... wait, wuh?

But yeah, if you think about it, nothing can logically exist.

However, we do have some degree of existence. the fact that we are talking here is proof SOMETHING exists. Even if existence somehow isn't what existence is thought to be, the fact that some existence exists is proof enough for existence.		2010-07-14 22:34:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

EDIT: Nevermind, again. 2010-07-14 22:35:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

so rly... the only thing that doesn't exist is logic... that makes sense! (d'oh! that's logic!)

EDIT: congrats piggabling, 50th comment!		2010-07-14 22:36:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Yes, pretty much. Nothing makes sense. Realize it. Then, realize what a joke existence is, and take it for what it is.

And I made ANOTHER post that's been thanked alot. Man, I'm just raking in the thanks with all these weird posts O_o		2010-07-14 22:37:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

So to sum up...

Our existance is impossible.

Yet we are here..

*universe imploded*		2010-07-14 22:38:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

I don'ts believes in religions.2010-07-14 22:38:00

Author:
qrtda235566
Posts: 3664

"Wait, what's that?"
"Oh, that's just my brain."

http://sarahmeyerwalsh.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/badly_burned_pot.jpg		2010-07-14 22:39:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

so nothing makes sense... thats what i always rly thought...2010-07-14 22:40:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

If time travel was possible, how would you get back??2010-07-14 22:41:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Here's a theory on the grand creator / god type thing. The guy who wrote it claims it's real, but it doesn't seem too believable... Anyways, take a look if you don't mind the long read! It's pretty interesting!

https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=28474-Let-s-help-germinate-this-seed!&highlight=germinate		2010-07-14 22:41:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

@ Kernel:
I don't know if you could... You'd probably just live out the rest of your life in the new time period, wouldn't you?		2010-07-14 22:42:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

there is no way... you would have never left2010-07-14 22:42:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

That's not true


By the way if anyone wants to know I'm a humanist		2010-07-14 22:45:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Maybe you'd get trapped in a never-ending time loop! That would be creepy...2010-07-14 22:46:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979


*walks away slowly from the people here*		2010-07-14 22:49:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

That's not true


By the way if anyone wants to know I'm a humanist

That's funny, I'm a transhumanist, or whatever the hell Marino was when he was banned.

...

<_< >_>

...

So, yeah. Life makes no sense.

Big news of the day.		2010-07-14 22:50:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

If we could would you send the entire human race back in time and be there before the dinos therefore shattering reality2010-07-14 22:50:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

In the link I provided earlier, he explains three of his theories for the existence of the universe:

1) The universe did not come from nothing, it came from something. Taking this route however offers no explanation either, we would still need to explain where this new something came from. We will therefore apply Ockham's razor and cut it out of our reckoning because it only adds to the complexity of the argument without adding any benefit,we gain nothing at all by introducing it.We may as well try to resolve the problem of the Big Bang coming from nothing rather than push it back a few steps and then try to solve it. We will therefore discard this idea.

2) We have to introduce a mysterious source of energy. I am forced to employ this highly undesirable tactic to make the creation of the universe possible. No matter how much I dislike the idea of using it I MUST, the unalterable truth is that we do exist, so the universe needed to be created out of nothing!

3) The universe did NOT have a creation event, it always existed.		2010-07-14 22:50:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

I would do that, only if we could use the "rewind" button if it didn't work out well the first time...2010-07-14 22:51:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

If Time-Travel was possible, then someone would have travelled to the present day to explain how it works.2010-07-14 22:56:00

Author:
Rhys125
Posts: 841

True... Ha! Maybe the person has and is trying to teach us how but everyone thinks he/she is crazy! 2010-07-14 22:57:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

but if he told us that time travel was possible then we'd try early and send another person earlier and earlier AND EARLIER AND EARLIER!!2010-07-14 23:00:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

The guy goes on to say: We are now left with just these two possible solutions, either God created the universe and He always existed, or the universe itself always existed. The solution requires that something has always existed in order to avoid the problem of creating something out of nothing. The choice of introducing God is purely a matter of faith, for if we accept that God could have always existed then why not the universe? From a logical point of view within this model we do not need the existence of God, God is just a further complication that in turn would require to be created. If we ruthlessly apply Ockham's razor to the idea of introducing God into the model we are left with the universe always existing. However, for those of you of a religious nature allow me to make myself clear. I am NOT saying (here) that God does not exist, only that the idea of introducing God into the equation is not necessary in order to make it work. See Are all religions false?

I know that some would argue that God is necessary as a Creator and Grand Designer of the universe but I disagree. The universe can simply be the way it is by pure chance alone, it need not have been designed to be the way it is. For those that argue that the universe requires such a high degree of 'fine tuning' for things to be so well suited for our own creation and evolution that it could not have happened by chance alone I disagree again. If the universe were not so well suited for us then we wouldn't be here! The fact that we are here does not mean that the entire universe was designed just for our benefit. See Is there a reason for our existence?



@Rhys125 Maybe they don't want to create a paradox. I have heard a couple of theories saying that time travel could be possible, but only forward in time. Going back in time opens the possibilities of the grandfather paradox...		2010-07-14 23:00:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

Dayne, I feel uncomfortable about that very upfront nature that God Must've existed, my blieve states otherwise.2010-07-14 23:01:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

my theory is we can't travel to a different point in our universe... so if you got back... you wouldn't have remembered it... or actually have gone2010-07-14 23:02:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

"Travelling" into the future is much "easier" than going into the past. We can use Einstein's Theory of Relativity to our advantage travelling into the future. We don't have anything helping us to travel into the past. Also, if we made a time machine that could travel into the past, then we could only travel back until the moment the time machine was made, from what I've heard...2010-07-14 23:04:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Dayne, I feel uncomfortable about that very upfront nature that God Must've existed, my blieve states otherwise.

Same here. I don't believe in god either, this is just a theory somebody has come up with, not me!		2010-07-14 23:04:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

i am agnostic... i believe it is possible, but it isn't TOTALLY true2010-07-14 23:06:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Swweet by travelling close to the speed of light we can cause time to slow around us.2010-07-14 23:06:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

did i disagree to that? i meant the past... you can't go back in time2010-07-14 23:08:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

But it is also impossible for a human being to travel that fast, or the atoms and molecules around us would just rip us to shreds2010-07-14 23:09:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

to go into the past we'd need to travel faster than the speed of light, to do that we'd need to find Tachyons (Theoretical particles which speed up idenfinitely)

@dayne not technically...		2010-07-14 23:09:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

I don't think we get ripped apart, we just become EXTREMELY heavy... Actually, you might... I don't know for sure. I mean who actually does? 2010-07-14 23:10:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

so today, and probably for centuries... we are not going to be alive to see it.2010-07-14 23:11:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Oww... my brain didn't hurt until I listened to that song. Although, I got to love 0:35-0:40. I never knew the scientific way of explaining the dinosaurs' extinction would be to say "They froze their assess off!"2010-07-14 23:11:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

NEW TOPIC!! please...


Alien Life??		2010-07-14 23:12:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Yet another little snippet from the site:


All of the above would seem to suggest that the universe has always existed. I appreciate that the idea seems unsatisfactory to our way of thinking, but our way of thinking is probably part of the problem. In our universe we take for granted cause and effect, in that order. Everything we know of happens that way and even our minds work that way! Our very existence would not be possible if it were the other way round. When therefore we try to contemplate the idea of something always existing we simply can not manage to understand it, we are seeking a 'cause' for the 'effect' of the universe existing. The universe however is different to us, it exists in nothing, whereas we of course exist in the universe. There is no cause and effect in a timeless eternal infinite nothing!		2010-07-14 23:12:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

From what I understand, we know how to travel into the future and what we have to do, but we cannot acheive it yet because we either:
1. Don't have the technology
2. Don't have the materials/money		2010-07-14 23:13:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Alien Life nao?2010-07-14 23:14:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Wait, I thought you can't time travel. Didn't they say it was possible, but you'd just end up in another parallel universe? So technically, you'd go back in time, but with something altered... so you wouldn't really be going BACK in time, just going to ANOTHER time from another universe.2010-07-14 23:14:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

NEW TOPIC!! please...


Alien Life??

I am 99% sure there is other life out there, especially since the universe is so vast!
I refuse to believe that in the entire universe, there is just out planet's worth of living creatures!		2010-07-14 23:16:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

Wait, I thought you can't time travel. Didn't they say it was possible, but you'd just end up in another parallel universe? So technically, you'd go back in time, but with something altered... so you wouldn't really be going BACK in time, just going to ANOTHER time from another universe.

You can time travel... into the future...

and unless we find the magical tachyon/science

Aliens?

I think there are aliens somewhere		2010-07-14 23:16:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

@CyberSora
It's more like travelling into the future in less time than it would take to live until then. I'm not sure if we know how to actually go back in time yet... 		2010-07-14 23:17:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

EDIT:exacty banshee there ARE flaws, double stars,red supergiants,irregular galaxies,diseases,brown dwarfs................stephanie_ravens and X3Power..........

These "flaws" aren't really flaws though are they? The forces and conditions allowed for them to happen, brown dwarfs occur throughout the universe along with some of those other "flaws". There is a system but there is also room for things to happen in a way that makes each part unique.

Disease, evolved and mutated just like we did and there is plenty of natural reasons for them to spread.

Ravens and X3 are merely an inconvenience that exist, you guessed it, because the conditions allow it, nothing divine about it sorry

All these things exist becuase the conditions allow it.

I can't quite put my finger on it but a higher power level of sloppiness to me would be more like half the universe looking like a badly drawn doodle and lacking the same quality as the rest of it. A smiley faced cow in a field.		2010-07-14 23:17:00

Author:
OneEyedBanshee
Posts: 1370

I think there may be life closer than we think, We've been discovering Liquids on one of Jupiters moons which is really exciting!!2010-07-14 23:18:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

You can time travel... into the future...

and unless we find the magical tachyon/science

Aliens?

I think there are aliens somewhere

Time Travel: You'd still end up in a different universe. Going to another time is no problem. The real problem is to go to another time in your universe, and return without losing your path to your original universe.

Alien Life: I think we already made contact with them. The government just wants us to stray away from the topic.		2010-07-14 23:19:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

thats what i think... but we can go forward in time, as going at near light speed, we are aging less than the atoms that are not going that fast... i don't get how that works though.

ALIENS

ahh, aliens... they have to exist... the uni/multiverse is to darn big! what does anyone else think?		2010-07-14 23:20:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Government banhammer!



@swweet: Yes!		2010-07-14 23:20:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

@CyberSora
It's more like travelling into the future in less time than it would take to live until then. I'm not sure if we know how to actually go back in time yet...

Read my post replying to KernelM's quote.

And besides, I'm currently time travelling as we speak. Look, I just went 1 second into the future. And another second. And another....		2010-07-14 23:21:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

In a way, you could say our consciousness time travels, because our dreams sometimes seem rather short in comparison to the actual time that is passing...

But anyways... like I said, I'm 99.99% sure there is other life out in the universe somewhere. Perhaps not even in our galaxy, but definitely somewhere!		2010-07-14 23:22:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

lol, they are not green with big black eyes most likely though!

and I'm 110% sure, they don't say "take us to your leader!!!"

because ho would they know English (and have a translator for it) if they have never heard all our words?		2010-07-14 23:23:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Can someone make a Alien life thread? :O2010-07-14 23:24:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Read my post replying to KernelM's quote.

And besides, I'm currently time travelling as we speak. Look, I just went 1 second into the future. And another second. And another....

Yeah, I think that would occur in actual time travel. I'm speaking more of... let's say... express living!
2010-07-14 23:24:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful [the Babel fish] could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
**** The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
**** "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED"
**** "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy (book one of the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy series), p*50



...just thought I'd throw that in there 		2010-07-14 23:24:00

Author:
Keanster96
Posts: 1436

Of course there are aliens! The freaking Egyptians knew it. They recorded it, and they might be one the reasons we have religions. But, can we talk about something more... detailed? Alien topics really have a limited response. The time travel one was long in comparison.

How about Area 51? It tackles both aliens and technology.		2010-07-14 23:25:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Can someone make a Alien life thread? :O

What's wrong with this one since the discussion has already been started?

I have also made a "what to do if you meet an alien" thread, showing an image / guide I found a while ago....		2010-07-14 23:26:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

I surprisingly don't know much about Area 51... The government is doing a good job... Ha 2010-07-14 23:27:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

i don't like how the government says we are free, when they conceal stuff from us.

I KNOW!! LETS GET A BOMB AND BREAK INTO AREA 5/smuggled away...		2010-07-14 23:27:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

...just thought I'd throw that in there

Well what do you know? God contradicts himself! 		2010-07-14 23:28:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Of course there are aliens! The freaking Egyptians knew it. They recorded it, and they might be one the reasons we have religions. But, can we talk about something more... detailed? Alien topics really have a limited response. The time travel one was long in comparison.

How about Area 51? It tackles both aliens and technology.


It's all a conspiracy theory, For all we know, aliens at area51 could just be a rumour to cover up what they're actually doing there!		2010-07-14 23:28:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

it exis- wait! where are you taking me!.... what? it doesn't exist? then why are you making a big deal out of it? classified? classified my *censored*!

jk, it exists, stupid us... claiming it doesn't!!! we ALL know it does...		2010-07-14 23:29:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

It's all a conspiracy theory, For all we know, aliens at area51 could just be a rumour to cover up what they're actually doing there!

Me: A cover up!? I thought they wanted to keep us from discovering aliens. What can be more important than alien life?

Wait, don't you dare say it!

Random User: A time machine.

Me: *Shoots self.*		2010-07-14 23:29:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

precisely they'd rather we grazed on the field of lies that discover the waters that are feeding the lawn on deceit!2010-07-14 23:30:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Maybe if we fly a UFO over Area 51 (wherever that may be) and dress in Hulk costumes, they'll capture us and we'll learn MOAR! Who's in? Ha 2010-07-14 23:31:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

im in as long as im not experimented on! 2010-07-14 23:31:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

They can't tell the difference between the Hulk and an alien! 2010-07-14 23:32:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

im in as long as im not experimented on!

Who wouldn't experiment on you!? You're a pile of floating letters on water!		2010-07-14 23:33:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

for all we know, they could be cloning presidents at area 51...

oh crap, i hope they didn't clone BUSH O_O

AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!

BTW, i had the 100th post in this thread!!!		2010-07-14 23:33:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Just imagine a group of 50 Bush's...

Nevermind, not a smart idea...		2010-07-14 23:34:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

I seriously think they're trying to make weapons of mass destruction. They're probably thinking of taking over another planet. Either that, or my 2012 theory.2010-07-14 23:35:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

I seriously think they're trying to make weapons of mass destruction. They're probably thinking of taking over another planet. Either that, or my 2012 theory.

Wouldn't actually surprise me, but what do I know?		2010-07-14 23:36:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Just imagine a group of 50 Bush's...

Nevermind, not a smart idea...

Bush: I declare war on handsome myself!

*Shoots all the Bushs, including himself.*

The World: WIN! 		2010-07-14 23:36:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

well, then they ARE cloning bush!!!

hes the scariest thing in the universe!!!

wait, mix up, that's Cheney!		2010-07-14 23:37:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Maybe if we fly a UFO over Area 51 (wherever that may be) and dress in Hulk costumes, they'll capture us and we'll learn MOAR! Who's in? Ha

Great idea!

Now make a UFO outside of LBP that really flies and the government don't know is being made.

And also make sure the guards armed to the teeth with machine guns don't get you!		2010-07-14 23:38:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

eh, thats not the problem... its the lightsaber wielding guards!!!2010-07-14 23:40:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

I've read that our planet is a farm to a much higher being2010-07-14 23:41:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Maybe area 51 is just a rumor to keep us away from Area 52 :O2010-07-14 23:41:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

I've read that our planet is a farm to a much higher being

You know that higher being must be Bush right?		2010-07-14 23:42:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Wait, I just came up with the craziest idea! EVER! Are you ready? Okay, here it is:

What if they're developing a mechanism that works just like LBP's Popit Menu, but in real life!? They'll be able to Create anywhere! 		2010-07-14 23:42:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

You know that higher being must be Bush right?

Well, they have bushes on farms don't they? XD		2010-07-14 23:43:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

Wait, I just came up with the craziest idea! EVER! Are you ready? Okay, here it is:

What if they're developing a mechanism that works just like LBP's Popit Menu, but in real life!? They'll be able to Create anywhere!

Umm... Whuh? Ha! I'd buy! 		2010-07-14 23:44:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

or WORSE... area 53, the CHENEY FACTORY!!!!!!!1!*screams like a little girl*2010-07-14 23:44:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

This has so got to be made into an LBP level!!!!2010-07-14 23:45:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

or WORSE... area 53, the CHENEY FACTORY!!!!!!!1!*screams like a little girl*


*little girl scream* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO D:

I knew it was there I kne- *Mystic SuperSecretFBi agents comes and takes me away in a bag*		2010-07-14 23:46:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

@Dayne:

Yeah! Ha! This went from fight to total nonsense! Ya gotta love it!

I dibs level rights! 		2010-07-14 23:46:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

This has so got to be made into an LBP level!!!!

Yush it needs to be done to an LBP level! 		2010-07-14 23:47:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

This has so got to be made into an LBP level!!!!

Bush Survivals! 		2010-07-14 23:48:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

@Dayne:

Yeah! Ha! This went from fight to total nonsense! Ya gotta love it!

I dibs level rights!

I think you'll find I started the thread and suggested we make the level

So I want credit in it! BIG credit!		2010-07-14 23:48:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

I was in there.. in Area 53, they had cake and- *Super SecretFBI agents deletes my memory*

Wow , that's awkward :O		2010-07-14 23:49:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

I think you'll find I started the thread and suggested we make the level

So I want credit in it! BIG credit!

You can have it! Lol! I wouldn't get finished anyway... I'd get halfway trying to create Bush then I just wouldn't be able to go on... 		2010-07-14 23:49:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

lol... what part of the thread, the serious, argument... or the wacky area 51 and alien bits... with bush nonsense baked in?2010-07-14 23:50:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

I call dibs on the PSP version! XD2010-07-14 23:51:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

All of the above would seem to suggest that the universe has always existed. I appreciate that the idea seems unsatisfactory to our way of thinking, but our way of thinking is probably part of the problem. In our universe we take for granted cause and effect, in that order. Everything we know of happens that way and even our minds work that way! Our very existence would not be possible if it were the other way round. When therefore we try to contemplate the idea of something always existing we simply can not manage to understand it, we are seeking a 'cause' for the 'effect' of the universe existing. The universe however is different to us, it exists in nothing, whereas we of course exist in the universe. There is no cause and effect in a timeless eternal infinite nothing!

Ahhh that makes sense 		2010-07-14 23:51:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

Basically, the universe is: NOTHING!2010-07-14 23:52:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

lol... what part of the thread, the serious, argument... or the wacky area 51 and alien bits... with bush nonsense baked in?

All of it...

Ha! Nah... We'd get enraged seven-year-olds saying we're dimishing the best man alive: Bush. 		2010-07-14 23:52:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

back to the arguement, but that makes the most sense, and oddly, thats what i always truly believed...2010-07-14 23:52:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Basically, the universe is: NOTHING!

But nothing is something!
*faints*		2010-07-14 23:53:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

and what seven year old believes that? some parents feed there kids a load of crap... that was fed to tem, they feed them their thrown up crap... and its a cycle, getting worse each time >_<2010-07-14 23:54:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

If nothing is something, then what is that something. Has the world come to nothing! I mean something! AHHH!!!

*Shoots self.*		2010-07-14 23:54:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Basically, the universe is: NOTHING!

Correction: The universe is contained within nothing. So it is impossible to venture outside of the universe! (also because it's so darn big!!)


and what seven year old believes that? some parents feed there kids a load of crap... that was fed to tem, they feed them their thrown up crap... and its a cycle, getting worse each time >_<

If I were them, I'd rather be fed cookies...		2010-07-14 23:55:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

Correction: The universe is contained within nothing. So it is impossible to venture outside of the universe! (also because it's so darn big!!)

Wait, what? If the universe is something, but we're nothing, then we don't exist? If we don't exist, then we can post something. But I just posted something... but it's a nothing. The universe is something! Oh no... that means my post is the UNIVERSE!!! 		2010-07-14 23:57:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Correction: The universe is contained within nothing. So it is impossible to venture outside of the universe! (also because it's so darn big!!)

ahh... i like you, making something usually smart people like you and me only want to hear... and turning into something a goofball would want too... and we are all goofs at heart here

150th reply!		2010-07-14 23:57:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Wait, what? If the universe is something, but we're nothing, then we don't exist? If we don't exist, then we can post something. But I just posted something... but it's a nothing. The universe is something! Oh no... that means my post is the UNIVERSE!!!

Not quite. It is impossible for nothing to have boundaries because it is (in theory) and infinite void. Therefore nothingness can only exist (in theory) outside out universe which cannot possibly be infinite.

Our universe is in fact "finite"		2010-07-15 00:00:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

150th reply!

FAIL! You're the 151th reply.		2010-07-15 00:00:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

and thats why there is the multiverse theory!2010-07-15 00:01:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Ughh... I hate thinking about things we're never get. Why do I even bother.

Yeah, the multiverse theory. I think scientist already proved that we have parallel universes by looking at atoms disappear for short time periods and return differently. So every universe is different by only a tad bit. Right now, one of those universes are in war in the American Revolution.		2010-07-15 00:03:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Our universe is in fact "finite"

Nothing can be endless, I knew it!

So how does the universe end, like a huge wall? So we are trapped inside the universe and the universe is nothing so we aren't trapped, wow.		2010-07-15 00:03:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

and thats why there is the multiverse theory!

In theory, the multiverse is also contained in nothingness. If nothingness exists, then it is at the very outside of everything, multiverse and universe alike!		2010-07-15 00:04:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

yes, but there could be infinite verses... lets get back to wacky fun! 2010-07-15 00:05:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

This is and endless cycle Nothing>something>Nothing>something and etc etc.2010-07-15 00:05:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Nothing can be endless, I knew it!

So how does the universe end, like a huge wall? So we are trapped inside the universe and the universe is nothing so we aren't trapped, wow.

Well, he goes on to state his favourite theory in this category:


Within the description of the Big Bang there are three main cosmological models. The open universe that will expand forever, the flat model that will come to a halt, or the closed model that will recollapse, possibly 'bouncing' back into another cycle of expansion. If the universe is closed it is possible that it will 'bounce' back cycle after cycle, forever. This idea of an eternal universe expanding and collapsing and re-expanding for ever is my preferred choice, but purely on aesthetic grounds. I realise of course that the arguments are still swinging back and forth as to which cosmological model is correct.

So after all the arguments I have made, what model do I prefer to describe where the universe came from? An infinite eternal unchanging nothing that has always existed and has always contained a finite but unbounded closed universe that constantly changes but is itself eternal. In this model the Big Bang is NOT required as a creation event, it is merely a phase in the cycle of an eternally expanding and collapsing universe and has no special significance at all. There is no need to look beyond it, there is only a previous cycle beyond it, and no need to say it is meaningless to try to look beyond it!		2010-07-15 00:06:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

Thanks Dayne.

Hold on a sec... How do we know the Big Bang ever existed :O		2010-07-15 00:08:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

motion between atoms had to start somewhere... that proof enough?2010-07-15 00:10:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Thanks Dayne.

Hold on a sec... How do we know the Big Bang ever existed :O

It's a theory. No one really knows.		2010-07-15 00:11:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

motion between atoms had to start somewhere... that proof enough?

Yeah maybe it is, maybe it is..

But what was before atoms? Nothing? But nothing is something and something is nothing and nothing is something.

If there was a prize that was called "The thread that creeped Alec out the most" would this one win, for sure!		2010-07-15 00:12:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

/ and that, plus will anyone rly know for sure? no f'ing way2010-07-15 00:13:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Because the great listeners of klatch have told me so.

There is no such thing as nothing		2010-07-15 00:14:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

/ and that, plus will anyone rly know for sure? no f'ing way

Maybe God will tell us when we go to heaven. That is if we ever go there.		2010-07-15 00:15:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

This thread is probably the most interesting thread ever on LBPC.

What about that there was another Human kind before us, before the big bang, before nothing, before something.

wow Im getting dizzy when I think about it, anyways I'm off to bed now to sleep in nothing!		2010-07-15 00:16:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Maybe God will tell us when we go to heaven. That is if we ever go there.

or if he exists 		2010-07-15 00:16:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Because the great listeners of klatch have told me so.

There is no such thing as nothing

Then I guess the English language is incorrect. If people say "I got nothing.", they mean they have something, which contradicts their statement. So there is "nothing", but just not "nothing". Do you get what I mean?		2010-07-15 00:16:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

motion between atoms had to start somewhere... that proof enough?

The Human mind works by determining cause and effect. The universe does not entirely work like that, which is why we find it hard to accept that the universe didn't ever have a beginning. It just was, and just is!		2010-07-15 00:17:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

or if he exists

You going to hell boy. :kz:		2010-07-15 00:17:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

or if he exists

He does cause he is nothing, but at the same time something!
But I don't believe in god anyways.		2010-07-15 00:17:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

as much as George W. Bushs reasoning... not at ALL...

but then again, not everything can make sense, to us humans at least.		2010-07-15 00:19:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

He does cause he is nothing, but at the same time something!
But I don't believe in god anyways.

In my opinion, God is something we thought of in our "Cause and Effect" system. But still, I do believe he exist, and even if he doesn't, at least I have faith in something.		2010-07-15 00:19:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

He does cause he is nothing, but at the same time something!
But I don't believe in god anyways.

Haha, I don't know where you got that, but it is impossible for nothing to be absolutely anything!		2010-07-15 00:19:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

but then again, not everything can make sense, to us humans at least.

Why is it that your post makes me think you're an alien?		2010-07-15 00:20:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

You going to hell boy. :kz:

thats my opinion now... it may change, and what IF THERE ISN'T A HELL? i think god wouldn't punish people that never heard of him, i just don't believe in a deity,or believe hell should influence my actions, be nice anyways! its more important i think...		2010-07-15 00:21:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Haha, I don't know where you got that, but it is impossible for nothing to be absolutely anything!

Don't ask where I got it from ...!
*stares at Area 53, then goes to bed*		2010-07-15 00:22:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Why is it that your post makes me think you're an alien?

you are paranoid? idk... i was just trying to sound smart 		2010-07-15 00:22:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Here, this might put things in perspective.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

Edit: And blow your mind.		2010-07-15 00:23:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

thats my opinion now... it may change, and what IF THERE ISN'T A HELL? i think god wouldn't punish people that never heard of him, i just don't believe in a deity,or believe hell should influence my actions, be nice anyways! its more important i think...

I always say the same thing!		2010-07-15 00:23:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

Ever thought about a color that doesn't exist, because there must be more colors that we can't see?! Right?! RIGHT?! D:


*goes to bed*		2010-07-15 00:24:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

thats my opinion now... it may change, and what IF THERE ISN'T A HELL? i think god wouldn't punish people that never heard of him, i just don't believe in a deity,or believe hell should influence my actions, be nice anyways! its more important i think...

But if there is a heaven and hell, then I'd rather be on the safe side and go with the heaven option. As for right now's situation, I think God made us only to praise him. I don't read the Bible, but someone who does told me that God basically made us to worship him. So maybe that's why we're here. To worship him. If this is true, then I'll worship him right now, on my new iPad!


you are paranoid? idk... i was just trying to sound smart

It's just that you say "humans" like you're trying to blend in, or so to speak.		2010-07-15 00:28:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Here, this might put things in perspective.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

Edit: And blow your mind.

Thanks! That really puts the distances into perspective!		2010-07-15 00:28:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

Here, this might put things in perspective.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

Edit: And blow your mind.

Waa! An error occurred! 		2010-07-15 00:29:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Waa! An error occurred!

It's because it's nothing but nothing is something, okay I'll stop and go to bed this time 		2010-07-15 00:31:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

It's because it's nothing but nothing is something, okay I'll stop and go to bed this time

((he says for the fifth time!))		2010-07-15 00:34:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

It's because it's nothing but nothing is something, okay I'll stop and go to bed this time

Yeah I think I may go too...

Thanks for the really interesting conversation though guys! I loved it!!

we gotta do this again some time 		2010-07-15 00:35:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

((he says for the fifth time!))

*Clicks invisible "LOL!" button.*		2010-07-15 00:35:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Ever thought about a color that doesn't exist, because there must be more colors that we can't see?! Right?! RIGHT?! D:


*goes to bed*

Or think about this.
The colours you see might be different from the colours I see, but we give those colours the same name. As no one has ever seen anything through someone elses eyes before we will never know if blue is actually blue as you see it, or if red is actually red!

Am I making any sense?		2010-07-15 00:36:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

ok then... see yah tomorrow! (or later tonight... for me and sora anyway!)2010-07-15 00:38:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Or think about this.
The colours you see might be different from the colours I see, but we give those colours the same name. As no one has ever seen anything through someone elses eyes before we will never know if blue is actually blue as you see it, or if red is actually red!

Am I making any sense?

the thing you are talking about is color blindness dude >_>		2010-07-15 00:39:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Or think about this.
The colours you see might be different from the colours I see, but we give those colours the same name. As no one has ever seen anything through someone elses eyes before we will never know if blue is actually blue as you see it, or if red is actually red!

Am I making any sense?

Yes you are, and I have also thought of this on many occasions!

HOWEVER It's only one form of colour blindness. Another form is when two colours that are close on the colour spectrum get mixed together when you're trying to look at the two colours together. (One of my friends has that form)

Anyways, seriously guys GOOD NIGHT

Try not to let your brains explode from logic overloads XD		2010-07-15 00:44:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

ok then... see yah tomorrow! (or later tonight... for me and sora anyway!)

I'm logging off swweet. I'd rather work on my LBP PSP level a bit more for right now.

Oh, and dibs on tomorrow's topic! Sleep on this so you get a head start guys :

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/835020-the-chicken-came-first-not-the-egg-scientists-prove

(Thank the awesome Asbestos for this idea. I think we should do a debate type of conversation. I call Team Egg! )

See ya!		2010-07-15 00:44:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

ok, this is nao the debate thread! dayne, plz change it! lol

hmm... which came first huh? the scientists might be wrong on that!		2010-07-15 00:46:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Yes you are, and I have also thought of this on many occasions!

HOWEVER It's only one form of colour blindness. Another form is when two colours that are close on the colour spectrum get mixed together when you're trying to look at the two colours together. (One of my friends has that form)

Anyways, seriously guys GOOD NIGHT

Try not to let your brains explode from logic overloads XD

Nahh, ignore the whole colour blindness thing. For what im saying, that person who is colour blind could see everything in blue, but they don't call it blue, they call it grey. I hope that kinda clears things up a bit. Edit: No pun intended! 		2010-07-15 00:50:00

Author:
Mr_T-Shirt
Posts: 1477

Damm... Looks like I lost my chance of having a intelligent conversation here... Oh well... 2010-07-15 01:14:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

Here, this might put things in perspective.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

Edit: And blow your mind.

dude, i actually got a bloody nose after watching that.		2010-07-15 01:44:00

Author:
Charlemagne
Posts: 513

Edit: And blow your mind.

dude, i actually got a bloody nose after watching that.
Oh the irony!		2010-07-15 01:47:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

The creation of our world I completely understand, but like KernelM, time travel boggles my brain as well as other worlds and planets that are out there and how far does space go? does it ever end?2010-07-15 02:40:00

Author:
Ainsl3y_xo
Posts: 478

guys, you missed todays conversation... i say tune in tomorrow! cyber and dayne will be on then... the debate is which came first? the chicken or the egg? feel free to have fun watching the video... but not many people will talk about time travel nao, you may search the discussion until tomorrow when we crawl onto the computers, and start talking again... hope you have fun! 2010-07-15 04:29:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

The egg came first, and the egg didn't come from a chicken, it came from a creature that evolved into a chicken.2010-07-15 07:28:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

Egg came first because of the basic theory of evolution, the chicken would have had a common ancestor this "proto chicken" wasn't actually a chicken but contained the correct genomic sequence to lay an egg then it may have bred and the partner may look more like a modern chicken but without the ability to lay eggs on land (per say) when they breed the eggs that would hatch would be "beta chickens" chickens still in the testing phase they would breed and breed until a chicken as we know it was hatched. Thus the egg came first!2010-07-15 09:51:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

I think I'm beyond confused.....2010-07-15 10:18:00

Author:
Ainsl3y_xo
Posts: 478

Wow, 206 posts in 13 hours, this is gotta be some sort of record...2010-07-15 10:21:00

Author:
Silverleon
Posts: 6707

Egg came first because of the basic theory of evolution, the chicken would have had a common ancestor this "proto chicken" wasn't actually a chicken but contained the correct genomic sequence to lay an egg then it may have bred and the partner may look more like a modern chicken but without the ability to lay eggs on land (per say) when they breed the eggs that would hatch would be "beta chickens" chickens still in the testing phase they would breed and breed until a chicken as we know it was hatched. Thus the egg came first!

Wrong. The phonetic patterns of your calculations are absoultely deductably and indescriminatably wrong. My data suggests that the chicken was caused from a time warp in the 7th dimension, home of Gokmar and the birthplace of Bulrog the Sorcerer. Now, the reason for this time warp is unknown, but Bulrog thinks that the mysterious Ogk tribe of Yulinon V are responsible. The chicken is a very high-tech robot, made of such advanced technology we would never know it's a robot. It was sent to our dimension in the Before Time, so the chicken came first.		2010-07-15 10:33:00

Author:
qrtda235566
Posts: 3664

Here, this might put things in perspective.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jymDn0W6U

Edit: And blow your mind.

Stuff that I already knew but still, it is just amazing, the scale of it all.

EDIT: Awhile back I found this incredibly interesting article I think you all should read.

http://www.****interesting.com/outer-space-exposure
(The stars are Dam spelt with an n at the end.)

Link is censored, so here it is in full. It is about the effect of outer space exposure to the human body, it is quite descriptive so not for the squeemish.


In scores of science fiction stories, hapless adventurers find themselves unwittingly introduced to the vacuum of space without proper protection. There is often an alarming cacophony of screams and gasps as the increasingly bloated humans writhe and spasm. Their exposed veins and eyeballs soon bulge in what is clearly a disagreeable manner. The ill-fated adventurers rapidly swell like over-inflated balloons, ultimately bursting in a gruesome spray of blood.

As is true with many subjects, this representation in popular culture does not reflect the reality of exposure to outer space. Ever since humanity first began to probe outside of our protective atmosphere, a number of live organisms have been exposed to vacuum, both deliberately and otherwise. By combining these experiences with our knowledge of outer space, scientists have a pretty clear idea of what would happen if an unprotected human slipped into the cold, airless void.

In the 1960s, as technology was bringing the prospect of manned spaceflight into reality, engineers recognized the importance of determining the amount of time astronauts would have to react to integrity breaches such as a damaged spacecraft or punctured space-suits. To that end, NASA constructed an assortment of large altitude chambers to mimic the hostile environments found at varying distances above the Earth, accounting for factors such as air pressure, temperature, and radiation. Adventurous volunteers were subjected to simulations of the conditions found several miles up, and a handful of animal tests were conducted with even lower pressures.

Using the data from these experiments and their knowledge of outer space, scientists were able to make some reasonable conclusions about how the human body would respond to sudden depressurization. A series of accidents over the years proved most of their extrapolations to be accurate. In 1965, in a space-suit test gone awry, a technician in an altitude chamber was exposed to a hard vacuum. The defective suit was unable to hold pressure, and the man collapsed after fourteen seconds. He regained consciousness shortly after the chamber was repressurized, and he was uninjured. In a later incident, another technician spent four minutes trapped at low pressure by a malfunctioning altitude chamber. He lost consciousness and began to turn blue, but escaped death when one of the managers kicked in one of the machine’s glass gauges, allowing air to seep into the chamber.

In 1971, three Russian cosmonauts aboard an early Soyuz spacecraft tragically experienced the vacuum of space first-hand, as described in the Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight:
“…the orbital module was normally separated by 12 pyrotechnic devices which were supposed to fire sequentially, but they incorrectly fired simultaneously, and this caused a ball joint in the capsule’s pressure equalization valve to unseat, allowing air to escape. The valve normally opens at low altitude to equalize cabin air pressure to the outside air pressure. This caused the cabin to lose all its atmosphere in about 30 seconds while still at a height of 168 km. In seconds, Patsayev realized the problem and unstrapped from his seat to try and cover the valve inlet and shut off the valve but there was little time left. It would take 60 seconds to shut off the valve manually and Patsayev managed to half close it before passing out. Dobrovolsky and Volkov were virtually powerless to help since they were strapped in their seats, with little room to move in the small capsule and no real way to assist Patsayev. The men died shortly after passing out. [...] The rest of the descent was normal and the capsule landed at 2:17 AM. The recovery forces located the capsule and opened the hatch only to find the cosmonauts motionless in their seats. On first glance they appeared to be asleep, but closer examination showed why there was no normal communication from the capsule during descent.”

When the human body is suddenly exposed to the vacuum of space, a number of injuries begin to occur immediately. Though they are relatively minor at first, they accumulate rapidly into a life-threatening combination. The first effect is the expansion of gases within the lungs and digestive tract due to the reduction of external pressure. A victim of explosive decompression greatly increases their chances of survival simply by exhaling within the first few seconds, otherwise death is likely to occur once the lungs rupture and spill bubbles of air into the circulatory system. Such a life-saving exhalation might be due to a shout of surprise, though it would naturally go unheard where there is no air to carry it.

In the absence of atmospheric pressure water will spontaneously convert into vapor, which would cause the moisture in a victim’s mouth and eyes to quickly boil away. The same effect would cause water in the muscles and soft tissues of the body to evaporate, prompting some parts of the body to swell to twice their usual size after a few moments. This bloating may result in some superficial bruising due to broken capillaries, but it would not be sufficient to break the skin.

Within seconds the reduced pressure would cause the nitrogen which is dissolved in the blood to form gaseous bubbles, a painful condition known to divers as “the bends.” Direct exposure to the sun’s ultraviolet radiation would also cause a severe sunburn to any unprotected skin. Heat does not transfer out of the body very rapidly in the absence of a medium such as air or water, so freezing to death is not an immediate risk in outer space despite the extreme cold.

For about ten full seconds– a long time to be loitering in space without protection– an average human would be rather uncomfortable, but they would still have their wits about them. Depending on the nature of the decompression, this may give a victim sufficient time to take measures to save their own life. But this period of “useful consciousness” would wane as the effects of brain asphyxiation begin to set in. In the absence of air pressure the gas exchange of the lungs works in reverse, dumping oxygen out of the blood and accelerating the oxygen-starved state known as hypoxia. After about ten seconds a victim will experience loss of vision and impaired judgement, and the cooling effect of evaporation will lower the temperature in the victim’s mouth and nose to near-freezing. Unconsciousness and convulsions would follow several seconds later, and a blue discoloration of the skin called cyanosis would become evident.

At this point the victim would be floating in a blue, bloated, unresponsive stupor, but their brain would remain undamaged and their heart would continue to beat. If pressurized oxygen is administered within about one and a half minutes, a person in such a state is likely make a complete recovery with only minor injuries, though the hypoxia-induced blindness may not pass for some time. Without intervention in those first ninety seconds, the blood pressure would fall sufficiently that the blood itself would begin to boil, and the heart would stop beating. There are no recorded instances of successful resuscitation beyond that threshold.

Though an unprotected human would not long survive in the clutches of outer space, it is remarkable that survival times can be measured in minutes rather than seconds, and that one could endure such an inhospitable environment for almost two minutes without suffering any irreversible damage. The human body is indeed a resilient machine.

Also addressing the alien life subject, statistically it/they must exist, we exist, the universe as far as we know is infinite (some theories), therefore, they exist in some form somewhere.

------------------------

A phenomenon that I find absolutely fascinating is that of Black Holes, I am not sure why but they, if they do indeed exist, are truly amazing.		2010-07-15 10:43:00

Author:
Boomy
Posts: 3701

Egg came first because of the basic theory of evolution, the chicken would have had a common ancestor this "proto chicken" wasn't actually a chicken but contained the correct genomic sequence to lay an egg then it may have bred and the partner may look more like a modern chicken but without the ability to lay eggs on land (per say) when they breed the eggs that would hatch would be "beta chickens" chickens still in the testing phase they would breed and breed until a chicken as we know it was hatched. Thus the egg came first!

Exactly! The Theory of Evolution is something those British scientist missed. The egg with the final version of the chicken must have come first. Example:

Labrador + Poodle = Labradoodle

Labradoodle + Labradoodle = Labradoodle

In this example, one might say "What came first? The Labradoodle, or the sperm cell?" Obviously, the sperm cell isn't what came first. Instead, the DNA crossed with the other dog's DNA, thus cross-breeding. So Technically, the Labradoodle came first.

I hope I made it clear enough.		2010-07-15 11:28:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Yay I finally woke up and I'm ready to discuss2010-07-15 11:30:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Awesome! We got the ball rolling with the egg (wow, that makes sense! ).2010-07-15 11:43:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Dinosaur Egg>Chicken>Egg2010-07-15 11:45:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Dinosaur Egg>Chicken>Egg

I think it's more Dinosaur Egg > Dinosaur halfway into Chickenhood > DinoChicken Egg > 99% Complete DinoChicken > Chicken Egg > Chicken

(Yes, I made up those goofy names.)		2010-07-15 11:54:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

DinoChicken Egg=WIN!

2010-07-15 12:04:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Ok can we move onto something slightly more interesting and something not being discussed in another topic. 2010-07-15 12:05:00

Author:
Boomy
Posts: 3701

Are there Aliens out there, or not?
I think there is, I was once a huge Alien and spirit ghost freak when I was younger :O		2010-07-15 12:08:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

What do you guys think about genectic alteration?2010-07-15 12:08:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

I don't exactly see a problem with it as long as in terms of food, that it is thoroughly tested to ensure that it is in no way dangerous to us. Genetic alteration can be very useful, especially should further scientific methods be found that can increase the amount received from a harvest, this could help with third world countries and such like. However then there is the human nature that said increases of food would most likely be hoarded by the wealthy.

Eh..		2010-07-15 12:14:00

Author:
Boomy
Posts: 3701

Ugh... genetic alteration. I never got that topic correct. To me, I think that Boomy is right. If genetic alteration is done for good reasons such as food, or even to cure certain diseases, then I say yes go for it. If it's just for those rich spoiled people, like the ones who want to change eye color, hair color, etc., then no.

Oh, and I like the Black Hole topic better. It's so mystifying. Agreed? Disagreed?		2010-07-15 12:57:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

What will happen if we go into a black hole? Will we get into another dimension, and does other dimensions exist? :O2010-07-15 13:02:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

I think we'll just be compressed into a very dense matter, then be shot out to another dimension/universe.2010-07-15 13:04:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

Can't the scientists just send out an camera into an Black Hole and see what happens?2010-07-15 13:06:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

You certainly won't be alive.

The camera would get destroyed. 		2010-07-15 13:07:00

Author:
Boomy
Posts: 3701

Ah, thought so >_<2010-07-15 13:11:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Can't the scientists just send out an camera into an Black Hole and see what happens?

It would also help if we had exact whereabouts of a black hole,

it's not black holes but I've had a thought, cloning could be our best chance of space travel, we input variety of peoples DNA chosen for diversity and with the most likely to survive, put them into amoebas or bacterium, create robots to tend to the amoebas and a variety of other robots to teach, repair and grow wheat (for sugar for the bacterium) when we reach the planet the spaceship would become a base. Then some more robots would take the human DNA out of the amoeba and put it into an empty egg cell then while the embryos are developing the scientist would've sent another 100 peoples DNA a year exactly later then after repeating the process we will have a colony of humans on another planet, seeds and other growing help would also be in storage with the amoebas. The robots would develop the ecosystems on the planet in the first 3 years so when the 3 year olds are developed they can go out and be taught by the robots in basic skills like building growing and cooking... Then after a few generations a colony would grow...

Of course we'd send things like diseases and scary films too oh yeah and crop animals like chickens in amoebic embryos		2010-07-15 13:28:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

That Synthetic life that was recently portrayed in the news could fit with your cloning theory.

Just found something pretty staggering:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Vy-canis-majoris.jpg
Our Sun compared to the largest known star VY Canis Majoris.		2010-07-15 13:42:00

Author:
Boomy
Posts: 3701

it's not black holes but I've had a thought, cloning could be our best chance of space travel, we input variety of peoples DNA chosen for diversity and with the most likely to survive, put them into amoebas or bacterium, create robots to tend to the amoebas and a variety of other robots to teach, repair and grow wheat (for sugar for the bacterium) when we reach the planet the spaceship would become a base. Then some more robots would take the human DNA out of the amoeba and put it into an empty egg cell then while the embryos are developing the scientist would've sent another 100 peoples DNA a year exactly later then after repeating the process we will have a colony of humans on another planet, seeds and other growing help would also be in storage with the amoebas. The robots would develop the ecosystems on the planet in the first 3 years so when the 3 year olds are developed they can go out and be taught by the robots in basic skills like building growing and cooking... Then after a few generations a colony would grow...

Problem is: The time.

If you are following this procediment, you can deduce that it's a loong travel. Let's put it in like... 500 years in about 1/5 the speed of light. Can you remember how much the humanity evolved in 500 years? Imagine (of course that's impossible) if they launched a rustic spaceship in year 1500. By the time they reach the planet, we would be living our good digital-tech lives there, but they wouldn't. Unless there's a way to keep communication with the ship, but the delay would be massive, or if the robots could evolve in knowlegde like humans, wich seems... out of question. So, by the time the colony is set, our Earth would be way too much evolved that it. Of course, Earth and colony couldn't communicate and know about each other, unless you want to wait for 100 years for and answer! 		2010-07-15 13:43:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

Problem is: The time.

If you are following this procediment, you can deduce that it's a loong travel. Let's put it in like... 500 years in about 1/5 the speed of light. Can you remember how much the humanity evolved in 500 years? Imagine (of course that's impossible) if they launched a rustic spaceship in year 1500. By the time they reach the planet, we would be living our good digital-tech lives there, but they wouldn't. Unless there's a way to keep communication with the ship, but the delay would be massive, or if the robots could evolve in knowlegde like humans, wich seems... out of question. So, by the time the colony is set, our Earth would be way too much evolved that it. Of course, Earth and colony couldn't communicate and know about each other, unless you want to wait for 100 years for and answer!
*
Your argument is against space travel. Correct? But quantum theorists have discovered that if you affect an atom it will randomly affect another atom so if we could somehow manipulate that then surely that would be a super fast telegram..

As for knowledge increasing you could send the technological advancements with each probe each year so the robots could be getting updated yearly

@boomy kinda puts us in our place eh?*		2010-07-15 13:55:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

That Synthetic life that was recently portrayed in the news could fit with your cloning theory.

Just found something pretty staggering:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Vy-canis-majoris.jpg
Our Sun compared to the largest known star VY Canis Majoris.

Don't forget that this huge star is a minuscule part of the galaxy, and that our galaxy is just a bit of dust in the middle of billion of galaxies... 		2010-07-15 14:23:00

Author:
gdn001
Posts: 5891

Just imagine the size of the Earth (or any other planet in our solar system) against the larger star.... O.O2010-07-15 15:23:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Would be like a spec of dust to a double decker bus. It's astounding how large VY Canis Majoris is, and that's just the biggest we know, there could/most likely are much, much larger stars out there.2010-07-15 15:29:00

Author:
Boomy
Posts: 3701

If some people weren't so selfish we could continue with research into cloning we could do some realgood!2010-07-15 15:30:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Would be like a spec of dust to a double decker bus. It's astounding how large VY Canis Majoris is, and that's just the biggest we know, there could/most likely are much, much larger stars out there.

Then how big would a human be?

Incredibly small...		2010-07-15 15:31:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Smaller than an atom I'd guess, a lot smaller. 2010-07-15 15:33:00

Author:
Boomy
Posts: 3701

Yeah, it's near incomprehensable... 2010-07-15 15:34:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Curse you boomy and your moar interesting topic!! *shakes fist*2010-07-15 15:41:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Curse you Boomy and your moar interesting topic!! *shakes fist*

Pretty pictures help a lot.

Also reposting this hehe:
In scores of science fiction stories, hapless adventurers find themselves unwittingly introduced to the vacuum of space without proper protection. There is often an alarming cacophony of screams and gasps as the increasingly bloated humans writhe and spasm. Their exposed veins and eyeballs soon bulge in what is clearly a disagreeable manner. The ill-fated adventurers rapidly swell like over-inflated balloons, ultimately bursting in a gruesome spray of blood.

As is true with many subjects, this representation in popular culture does not reflect the reality of exposure to outer space. Ever since humanity first began to probe outside of our protective atmosphere, a number of live organisms have been exposed to vacuum, both deliberately and otherwise. By combining these experiences with our knowledge of outer space, scientists have a pretty clear idea of what would happen if an unprotected human slipped into the cold, airless void.

In the 1960s, as technology was bringing the prospect of manned spaceflight into reality, engineers recognized the importance of determining the amount of time astronauts would have to react to integrity breaches such as a damaged spacecraft or punctured space-suits. To that end, NASA constructed an assortment of large altitude chambers to mimic the hostile environments found at varying distances above the Earth, accounting for factors such as air pressure, temperature, and radiation. Adventurous volunteers were subjected to simulations of the conditions found several miles up, and a handful of animal tests were conducted with even lower pressures.

Using the data from these experiments and their knowledge of outer space, scientists were able to make some reasonable conclusions about how the human body would respond to sudden depressurization. A series of accidents over the years proved most of their extrapolations to be accurate. In 1965, in a space-suit test gone awry, a technician in an altitude chamber was exposed to a hard vacuum. The defective suit was unable to hold pressure, and the man collapsed after fourteen seconds. He regained consciousness shortly after the chamber was repressurized, and he was uninjured. In a later incident, another technician spent four minutes trapped at low pressure by a malfunctioning altitude chamber. He lost consciousness and began to turn blue, but escaped death when one of the managers kicked in one of the machine’s glass gauges, allowing air to seep into the chamber.

In 1971, three Russian cosmonauts aboard an early Soyuz spacecraft tragically experienced the vacuum of space first-hand, as described in the Almanac of Soviet Manned Space Flight:
“…the orbital module was normally separated by 12 pyrotechnic devices which were supposed to fire sequentially, but they incorrectly fired simultaneously, and this caused a ball joint in the capsule’s pressure equalization valve to unseat, allowing air to escape. The valve normally opens at low altitude to equalize cabin air pressure to the outside air pressure. This caused the cabin to lose all its atmosphere in about 30 seconds while still at a height of 168 km. In seconds, Patsayev realized the problem and unstrapped from his seat to try and cover the valve inlet and shut off the valve but there was little time left. It would take 60 seconds to shut off the valve manually and Patsayev managed to half close it before passing out. Dobrovolsky and Volkov were virtually powerless to help since they were strapped in their seats, with little room to move in the small capsule and no real way to assist Patsayev. The men died shortly after passing out. [...] The rest of the descent was normal and the capsule landed at 2:17 AM. The recovery forces located the capsule and opened the hatch only to find the cosmonauts motionless in their seats. On first glance they appeared to be asleep, but closer examination showed why there was no normal communication from the capsule during descent.”

When the human body is suddenly exposed to the vacuum of space, a number of injuries begin to occur immediately. Though they are relatively minor at first, they accumulate rapidly into a life-threatening combination. The first effect is the expansion of gases within the lungs and digestive tract due to the reduction of external pressure. A victim of explosive decompression greatly increases their chances of survival simply by exhaling within the first few seconds, otherwise death is likely to occur once the lungs rupture and spill bubbles of air into the circulatory system. Such a life-saving exhalation might be due to a shout of surprise, though it would naturally go unheard where there is no air to carry it.

In the absence of atmospheric pressure water will spontaneously convert into vapor, which would cause the moisture in a victim’s mouth and eyes to quickly boil away. The same effect would cause water in the muscles and soft tissues of the body to evaporate, prompting some parts of the body to swell to twice their usual size after a few moments. This bloating may result in some superficial bruising due to broken capillaries, but it would not be sufficient to break the skin.

Within seconds the reduced pressure would cause the nitrogen which is dissolved in the blood to form gaseous bubbles, a painful condition known to divers as “the bends.” Direct exposure to the sun’s ultraviolet radiation would also cause a severe sunburn to any unprotected skin. Heat does not transfer out of the body very rapidly in the absence of a medium such as air or water, so freezing to death is not an immediate risk in outer space despite the extreme cold.

For about ten full seconds– a long time to be loitering in space without protection– an average human would be rather uncomfortable, but they would still have their wits about them. Depending on the nature of the decompression, this may give a victim sufficient time to take measures to save their own life. But this period of “useful consciousness” would wane as the effects of brain asphyxiation begin to set in. In the absence of air pressure the gas exchange of the lungs works in reverse, dumping oxygen out of the blood and accelerating the oxygen-starved state known as hypoxia. After about ten seconds a victim will experience loss of vision and impaired judgement, and the cooling effect of evaporation will lower the temperature in the victim’s mouth and nose to near-freezing. Unconsciousness and convulsions would follow several seconds later, and a blue discoloration of the skin called cyanosis would become evident.

At this point the victim would be floating in a blue, bloated, unresponsive stupor, but their brain would remain undamaged and their heart would continue to beat. If pressurized oxygen is administered within about one and a half minutes, a person in such a state is likely make a complete recovery with only minor injuries, though the hypoxia-induced blindness may not pass for some time. Without intervention in those first ninety seconds, the blood pressure would fall sufficiently that the blood itself would begin to boil, and the heart would stop beating. There are no recorded instances of successful resuscitation beyond that threshold.

Though an unprotected human would not long survive in the clutches of outer space, it is remarkable that survival times can be measured in minutes rather than seconds, and that one could endure such an inhospitable environment for almost two minutes without suffering any irreversible damage. The human body is indeed a resilient machine.		2010-07-15 15:44:00

Author:
Boomy
Posts: 3701

This topic should have stopped with my first post.

However, that would make sense.

And since my argument was that NOTHING made sense...

/implodes		2010-07-15 17:33:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882

OK! I'm up!

geez, darn eastern and European time zones >_>

honestly, no one knows much about black holes, all we really know/think is that there is a giant black hole in the center of every galaxy! and thats not even 100% proven... the very thought of going into a black hole with our technology the human race has now, would be a very quick and scary suicide, and you wouldn't feel a thing most likely!

now... do black holes go to other dimensions? no one knows... when you think of time travel back in time, it seems most likely... and parallels and the like, but are they there? i believe so, and so do many scientists! but the main reason no one is trying to say, "this is what it is" because they have no way to say it for SURE, we can say it most likely is, but many people (especially very religous people) will say that there can't be, even if they said it was.

we can't tell where a black hole goes, we just know the energy has to go somewhere! after all, does energy dissapear? no.

honestly, we will never know... and as yesterdays discussion was, do we need to?

we are quite honestly a curios animal, and yes, we are animals... but we are more curios than cats in many senses, we have to find answers. we won't give up till we know, and with the uni/multiverse practically infinite, that can be a huge problem...

as the saying goes, "curiosity killed the cat!" but replace cat with human 		2010-07-15 17:36:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Does noone care about my topic!!! :'(2010-07-15 17:40:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

what was it again? lol... the future of the human race right?2010-07-15 17:41:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

What, cloning? 2010-07-15 17:41:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

lol, sry kernel... when a topic becomes really popular, you sorta forget the last one!2010-07-15 17:44:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

How humans plan to travel across space...2010-07-15 17:48:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

well first off, we would need a renewable energy source in space... solar might be useful here! we could ride the solar winds... and use the energy to power the machinery...

but we don't know enough yet rly		2010-07-15 17:50:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

We could planet hop... Largely inefficient, but it would work. Use solar winds/power to propell us to each planet and then orbit them so we could build up momentum to go to the next planet. The hard part wold be escaping the gravity completely and getting to the next planet. Once we're out of the solar system, we're totally dead though... :/2010-07-15 17:54:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Once we're out of the solar system, we're totally dead though... :/

really, exactly why is that?		2010-07-15 17:56:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

Well, using my technique because no other planets are really that near and the sun's ray are very weak by the time you're all the way out there 2010-07-15 17:58:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

gather fuel from the sun before leaving? again.... won't happen soon2010-07-15 18:00:00

Author:
theswweet
Posts: 2468

You could use anti matter + matter reactions to propel it forward but creating that much antimatter would be difficult so i guess that ion thrusters would be the best option

theswweet I'm sure either fusion power or solar would work		2010-07-15 18:00:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078


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