Archive: 20 posts

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I got a prompt today to read and agree to the new 4.5 PSN terms of service & user agreement before I could sign in. Most people just don't bother reading this stuff and just press agree and forget about it. I strongly suggest everybody read this one, there have been a LOT of changes and they will effect you one way or another. Portions of the agreement have be reworded, possible in reaction to the class action instigated against Sony over the 3.30 system update and the loss of the 2nd OS, other totally new additions have appeared mainly to cover the new video downloading services and the new Premium services. At the end of the agreement that you can read when it appears on your console, appears the web address for the UK Playstation site - Legal section, it says to go there for a printable version of the 4.5 agreement dated 21st June. I'll save you the trouble, it's not up yet. I suggest if you check back at the site later to read through it when it eventually appears, you really need to read it. There are lots of subtle and not so subtle warnings regarding the new services, and this is what has got my alarm bells ringing, especially with LBP2 looming on the horizon. I suppose it depends if LBP2, or LBP for that matter, has any of it's content tied in with this new premium service at some stage, there could be potential problems from what I'm understanding from this new agreement. These problems basically all amount to possible data loss due to 1] The way system updates will now be handled, 2]The canceling of your premium subscription or not renewing you premium subscription before it's anniversary date, and the possibility of never being able to replace this lost data. Quote from 4.5 agreement. "If you cancel subscription, cancellation will take effect at the end of current subscription period, after you may no longer be able to access or use content downloaded during your subscription or any additional items related to that content" This effects level 2 content, which is. PSN games, PSone games, MINI's, Premium game elements. It does not effect level 1 content, which is Avatars and themes. I didn't write verbatim about being late to renew a subscription, but basically you are in the same boat as canceling it if this were to happen according to the agreement. There is an option to have your subscription automatically renewed, but it is up to you to make sure that your user account has sufficient funds to cover for this. In both cases Sony's agreement states there is a possibility that this data will not be replaceable. I think this has something to do with the fact that the premium service will have downloads that are only available for a certain amount of time, these will then be removed from the server, so no backup on Sony's end will exist. The warnings concerning regular backup of data, and Sony not taking any responsibility for it's loss [ or anything else it would seem] are very prominent in the new agreement, even though the possibilities of sudden data loss or corruption has now risen considerably due to you now having to agree to automatic downloading of system updates, without you having any possibility of refusing them. There's a lot more to this new agreement I haven't mentioned, and if your any good at reading between the lines, you can see by the way that it's new additions have been worded exactly what Sony are intending, and where they are heading with the changes with the PSN. Get your wallets ready. I just thought I'd warn you.

2010-06-22 17:01:00 Author: blackwiggle Posts: 84

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I didn't even read the first one :blush:

2010-06-22 17:04:00 Author: Alec Posts: 3871

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Yeah, but that is mostly about PSN+ stuff, so doesn't affect you normal online gaming.

2010-06-22 17:06:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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but it is up to you to make sure that your user account has sufficient funds to cover for this. funds?

2010-06-22 17:12:00 Author: lifeiscrapislife Posts: 396

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funds? Of course funds. PSN+ costs money.

2010-06-22 17:14:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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The new agreement effects everything. Actually I've just checked and the new agreement has just been put up at the UK Playstation site, so I suggest you READ it, not skim it, and see for yourself. http://uk.playstation.com/legal/detail/item238015/PlayStation%C2%AENetwork-TERMS-OF-SERVICE-AND-USER-AGREEMENT/

2010-06-22 17:15:00 Author: blackwiggle Posts: 84

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18387 seriously though, as a cheapskate i would be heartbroken to hear that you had to PAY to play LBP online. i have payed for the game once and that is enough! i really hope that Sony wont suck too much cash out of our pockets.. this only reinforces the sterotype of big faceless corporations that only exist to make ordinary players pay lots of money for something that is essentially free. im also a bit stumped on the point that you cant play games bought off psn when the subsciption is over. i buy a month of Psn+, buy lots of games, and then i have to keep paying to play them! this only gets better and better... i really, really hope that MM has some plan for this...

2010-06-22 17:36:00 Author: kiwin Posts: 218

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seriously though, as a cheapskate i would be heartbroken to hear that you had to PAY to play LBP online. i have payed for the game once and that is enough! You don't. PSN is and remains free for the time being. What you can choose to pay for is PSN+, which adds absolutely nothing to your online experience.

2010-06-22 17:40:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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The new agreement effects everything. Yes, but the specifics of "If you cancel subscription, cancellation will take effect at the end of current subscription period, after you may no longer be able to access or use content downloaded during your subscription or any additional items related to that content" is only applicable if you are using PSN+. The point basically is that with PSN+ you get access to more features. Once you stop paying, you lose access to those features. If you haven't ever got PSN+, it's not going to be an issue. It being irrecoverable is an annoyance and without looking through I'm unsure whether the wording is there so they are covered just in case something is irrecoverable, or if they intend to make everythign irrecoverable. TBH I'd assume the former. Also, them not taking responsibility for data loss if you don't back up - fair do's. TBH, they shouldn't have to take responsibility if you're to lazy to look after your data. Remember the PSN+ is exactly that - premium services and bonuses added on to your typical PSN service, which will remain free.

2010-06-22 17:44:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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tl;dr *Snickers*

2010-06-22 17:46:00 Author: Nurolight Posts: 918

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sounds optimistic enough for me time being. Edit: got sniped, meant post above.

2010-06-22 17:47:00 Author: kiwin Posts: 218

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You don't. PSN is and remains free for the time being. What you can choose to pay for is PSN+, which adds absolutely nothing to your online experience. So if it doesn't add any experience, why have a new thing like PSN+? money?

2010-06-22 17:54:00 Author: Alec Posts: 3871

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For Sony? Added revenue. For you? Early access to betas, one hour trials of full games, free PSone games and minis and other such things.

2010-06-22 18:23:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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For Sony? Added revenue. For you? Early access to betas, one hour trials of full games, free PSone games and minis and other such things. That seems quite nice, but meh. I won't get it.

2010-06-22 18:26:00 Author: Alec Posts: 3871

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im also a bit stumped on the point that you cant play games bought off psn when the subsciption is over. i buy a month of Psn+, buy lots of games, and then i have to keep paying to play them! this only gets better and better... If you buy a game while subscribed either at full price or at a + exclusive discount it is yours wheather you stay subscribed or not. Any game given free as part of the sub will only be accessible while subscribed.

2010-06-22 18:36:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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I thought it was already clear that once your subscription was up, the content you downloaded with it will be useless. Not trying to sound rude or anything of course. I have a thing for thinking literally, and I heard (during the press conference) "Free content for the remainder of your subscription". Which could mean one of two things, and I guessed that, since it's SONY, it meant that. I also believe that it means that you only lose the content that you got for free over PSN+ when you unsubscribe. Meaning that, unless you got a free level pack or something for free, it shouldn't affect LBP. Ooh, I just realized, I got SNIPED!

2010-06-22 18:40:00 Author: KlawwTheClown Posts: 1106

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I was under the general impression that it's the free content you get with the PS+ that goes away, not content you pay for individually. So, in other words, you pay for the Incredibles pack, you keep the pack. But if you have PS+ and download some new avatars, and then don't renew your subscription, those avatars go away.

2010-06-22 18:50:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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I think that's about it really. The idea is to stop people from signing up for a month, spending the entire month downloading everything free they possibly can and then cancelling their subscription, which is clearly brazen profiteering on Sony's part.

2010-06-22 18:52:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I'm worried about this increasing Grey area that Sony is calling "Premium Game Elements", sounds suspiciously like what we are now calling DLC for games to me. What exactly constitutes a Premium game? Will new games emanating from a Sony owned studio have any new DLC only available and categorized as Premium game content? Will games that are solely made for the Playstation likely to find themselves in the same category? It would be a nice way for Sony to trap and spring a fully blown need to pay service on the supposedly unsuspecting game buying public. The PSN will inevitably become like the Xbox's paid online usage, Sony has seen the revenue that is generated and it wants in. It's just the way Sony intends to bring it into being I find rather underhanded, similar to the way a Bank brings in new fees and charges, they are using the same tactics, like awards programs for credit cards. C - Can't A - Attain R - Rewards R- Regardless O - Of T - Time.

2010-06-23 06:06:00 Author: blackwiggle Posts: 84

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Premium game elements is downloadable content to which you have only access if you subscribe to the premium PSN service that is PSN+.

2010-06-23 10:47:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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