Archive: 21 posts

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omg omg it is really 3d omg

2010-06-15 23:08:00 Author: lbp is awespme Posts: 657

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I'm pretty sure it's just a visual trick. The targets/enemies seem to be moving in a single layer, and so does sackboy/the vehicle. The backdrop is a bit of a mystery, though: I'd love to know how it was done.

2010-06-15 23:13:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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It's very, very impressive, but it's definitely not in 3D. It's actually all in one thin layer! It's all just an exquisitely implemented illusion.

2010-06-15 23:16:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Can't wait until LittleBigPlanet 3 when hopefully Mm decides to ditch this stupid illusion crap and actually incorporate proper 3D level making of different game types and genres.

2010-06-16 01:33:00 Author: jjmusicman Posts: 234

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I did warn you about your over-optimism, didn't I? But nah, you know best Anyways, the tools in LBP2 are epic, really awesome stuff and I can't believe the community is already complaining about them. Then again, I suppose that's what we should expect from this community I'm gonna go find some happy LBP2 threads to hang around I think. Positivity FTW

2010-06-16 01:47:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Positivity FTW. You might be laying it on a little thick there. I agree with your overall sentiment, and I certainly see nothing to complain about from what I've seen of lbp2, but you kind of come off like a junior high psa

2010-06-16 02:04:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Sorry, positivity FTW needs a smiley - it's supposed to be cheesy and tongue in cheek... it's gone 2am here lol. Also, you'll have to help me out with PSA (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=psa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a) - I'm hoping it's Public Service Announcement, and not the link just above it!

2010-06-16 02:09:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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You don't want to do a junior high prostate-specific antigen? Well you're no fun

2010-06-16 02:11:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I did warn you about your over-optimism, didn't I? But nah, you know best Anyways, the tools in LBP2 are epic, really awesome stuff and I can't believe the community is already complaining about them. Then again, I suppose that's what we should expect from this community I'm gonna go find some happy LBP2 threads to hang around I think. Positivity FTW Wait, what? I've known for weeks that LBP2 works with illusions to get people to create different games, and not actually letting people do them. We all have known that. I'm didn't complain about the tools in LBP2. I simply said I hope in LBP3, Mm can stop worrying about the people who don't want to lose their stuff from the old game and can focus on moving forward and progressing to actually making a game where people can create any sort of 3D content or genre without the need for illusions. When levels were getting stolen after the move from the LBP1 beta into the retail version? They basically said "We don't care. Get over it. You will make better levels in the retail version than in the beta." and we did. But this time, for the sake of making people feel better, they restricted themselves in LBP2 in order to be compatible with the last game. Honestly, a year from now, why would I care about playing a LBP1 level when everyone will have made things 10000x better in LBP2? I don't understand the thinking behind limiting your game to support a previous iteration. Whatever.

2010-06-16 02:53:00 Author: jjmusicman Posts: 234

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Ok lets see... Um...Beta to actual game, no money used/lost, few dozens of creators about 100 levels and about a few days of creation work. LBP1 too LBP2 60$ used in LBP1, thousands of users, over 2Million levels, countless hours of creating and many creators who spend MONTHS making levels all the $ used in DLC, all the costumes made. So...yeah that you didn't do anything significant in LBP1 doesn't mean no one else did m8... Seriously, i'm amazed as how you can think that way, i'm sure there are thousands of people who'd be waaay angrier than you if things weren't how they've been regarding LBP1 - LBP2 compatibility. I for one am happy for what they have done/ added rather than being bitter and mad, whining because they couldn't add every single thing everyone ask for. What you're looking for its called something like Garry's Mod i think, there's all your 3D creating you want friend. Remember this is a specific kind of game with a specific kind of rules that can't be completly changed because of the whim of some.

2010-06-16 03:27:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Yeah and what are they going to do? Pull that excuse in the next sequel? And then one after that? You gotta let go at some point. Though maybe not at this point, but I hope that for the next one they decide to cut the umbilical cord and try to do something that is completely inconceivable in the previous games. I did a lot of what I'd consider intricate and fun levels, I just never publish them or finished them completely. But that has nothing to do with what I meant. I think the LBP1 compatibility is a double-edged sword. You get all this great old content.....but it hinders the sequel from being completely separate and different from the first game in some ways because of the limitations. The game is still absolutely amazing and it is, beyond anything else announced this E3, my most anticipated game. I'm a creator at heart. But the missed potential for trying to make it backwards compatible by having to work around with "illusions" is indeed a bit disappointing...and in the end, it sounds like it'll be too confusing and not obvious-enough for everyday people to successfully implement. Yeah, you could say the levels they showed today were made in 24 hours. But they were made in 24 hours by LBPC's most famous creators, very good at logic and planning ideas, so eh. I for one am happy for what they have done/ added rather than being bitter and mad, whining because they couldn't add every single thing everyone ask for. I'm not bitter or mad at all LOL what they showed today was the coolest thing I've seen in video games for years. But I do have my criticisms for everything. Trust me, I'm a creator at heart. I'm also a critic at heart. XD

2010-06-16 03:41:00 Author: jjmusicman Posts: 234

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You know, most of the time when I read or watch a roundtable at kotaku or IGN or Gamespot or really anywhere, and the topic of LittleBigPlanet comes up, it's always the same. People don't pay a lot of attention to it. They see it as something that sort of fizzled out, they had some fun with it early on, and moved on. What's in LBP2 is so much more advanced - just imagine what some of the more complex microchips will look like with the circuit boards laid out. Imagine showing that to someone new to LBP. If Sackboy invites you in with a charming wink, a complex logic board may just send you running for the hills, scared of create mode. There's a good reason they haven't been showing it off very much. They need to convince people that it's still cute, accessible LittleBigPlanet. It's a very careful, cautious dance that MM and Sony are engaged with coreographing right now. They know they have something that has the potential to frighten a lot of people away. Cards need to be played right. So yes, perhaps with LBP3 you'll get the doors blown open and a giant, open mode for full 3d creation, who knows - but you have to realize that the greater audience and the gaming public is not US - we're the hard core of LBP. This community content generation thing on such a scale is new. They're blazing a trail with this game, so it's going to take babysteps, little things and big things that will be added and changed with each iteration. Eventually we'll see LBP knockoffs on other systems, it may be these ones that first make the foray into wide open 3d creation. but it's just not reasonable to assume we should be there right now when we're only barely at LittleBigPlanet 2, just one little step up from the first. Guitar Hero was a revelation, and it took the better part of a decade to get to where, with Rock Band 3, they're finally releasing a full-blown Fender as a peripheral, and you can actually learn to play guitar during your videogame. When Guitar Hero 1 first came out, this was the inevitable conclusion to its success. LBP, if it sees bigger success and continues indefinitely, will see huge changes similar to this. But it takes time, certainly more than just one sequel. And with LBP, the game that's supposed to last forever, it will probably take considerably longer than the ramp from tiny plastic guitar hero controller to a working Fender.

2010-06-16 08:52:00 Author: Teebonesy Posts: 1937

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Teebonesy, I think you're on to something. The one clip I recall specifically I believe was in the GameTrailers intereview with Alex, and the journalist was trying to emphasize how complex and deep the game actually goes, and Alex was trying to show off the simplicity of the game. They've certainly taken large leaps to make creating moderate to complex behavior (AI, launch pads, etc.) a more accessible feature of create mode. But yes, those circuit boards could be complex indeed. I think the community really has a chance to shine (ahem, LBPC) once LBP2 hits shelves to develop circuitry that will become the gold standard, much the same way the LBPC Logic Pack has.

2010-06-18 02:20:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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But the missed potential for trying to make it backwards compatible by having to work around with "illusions" is indeed a bit disappointing...and in the end, it sounds like it'll be too confusing and not obvious-enough for everyday people to successfully implement. I don't think these "illusions" exist to keep it backwards compatible. Look at them as short-cuts to achieve certain goals. Mm has done a huge amount of work, and probably has a lot to do to get this all ready and tested before the end of the year. Without these short-cuts, they wouldn't have nearly as many features as they do now, or they would be releasing in 2015. Or maybe it's even simpler. Maybe they had this new Direct Control seat with all new logic parts like Movers and gravity switches, and realised that top-down gameplay came with it for free, so they might as well advertise it as a feature.

2010-06-18 22:34:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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But the missed potential for trying to make it backwards compatible by having to work around with "illusions" is indeed a bit disappointing...and in the end, it sounds like it'll be too confusing and not obvious-enough for everyday people to successfully implement. Yeah, you could say the levels they showed today were made in 24 hours. But they were made in 24 hours by LBPC's most famous creators, very good at logic and planning ideas, so eh. Quite a few of the creators there really aren't good with logic. At all. Yet they were making stuff like this within 24 hours of having the game in their hands. Grant's levels normally have a couple of ANDs and ORs in them, and very little else in them. Yet he made that fully working top-down UFO sim, which played well, the controls were intuitive, it looked great and it was bloody good fun. It's really not going to go over the heads of most people. Actually making the jump to a fully 3D system would be a nightmare. People aren't going to find it easier to create gameplay when their rotational movers have 3 (or potentially more, depending on what you allow) rotational vectors. Not to mention that the thermo constraints for the physics would be ridiculous for a completely simulated 3D world. That and the fact that a complete rebuild of the engine would take longer, cost more money, fragment the community and overall end up with a game that is far harder to build in than the current system, reducing revenues.... It could be that at some point the masses are ready for a fully 3D, fully simulated physics-based editor. But I really don't think that time is now, and I'd be surprised if the processing factors wouldn't be prohibitive - most people ATM struggle to make levels that are large, so bump it to fully 3D and we might get a couple of minutes gameplay at most out of them. I don't think it's a case of limiting the game to 2.5D just for backwards compatibility. I think it's a case of practicality that they extended the engine rather than rebuilt. I honestly think it's the right decision as well. Backwards compatibility is a by-product of that, not the driving force.

2010-06-19 00:07:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I agree with rtm on this. I have a hard enough time making a decent stage as it is (And I still havent made a very good one yet) and I'm working in 2.5D. Thinking of a 3D LBP and stage creation would be a nightmare, and I honestly probably wouldn't bother. Plus, considering how long it would take to make a good to decent level....And to make it look decent... The future of gaming isn't in 3D. 2D can be just as fun. Before a game can present anything, it needs to be fun. I don't care how pretty your graphics are, or how well done your engine is. If your game isnt fun, I'm not going to play it. LBP is fun in 2.5D. I really wouldn't have it any other way. Maybe other games will work well in 3D. I don't think LBP is one of those games. Anyways, thats just my opinion. ^^

2010-06-19 00:37:00 Author: Laharl Posts: 152

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At the end of the day, Illusions... Most things in games are illusions anyway. If your playing for example, space invaders on a gameboy or something. would you care that really... each part of it is just a pixel? If you can pull of an Illusion. Then what is there to worry about? Maybe someone can pull off a full 3D game which feels 3D but is an illusion. But really, who cares? As long as it feels and looks 3D. Nothing else matters.

2010-06-19 01:26:00 Author: fruitmanlolli Posts: 151

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Yeah, I agree with RTM. its not backwards compatibility thats stopping Mm from going fully 3D. The thermometer would be overheating in seconds if you started making a fully 3D level that actually looks good. On topic, I think the illusion of 3D is done by the the new 'grow' setting on emitters. The horizontal lines are emitted to move down the background and as they move, they grow to their set size making it look like its coming towards you (me thinkz). The square red walls are done the same way i think.

2010-06-20 14:28:00 Author: R0GUE--Elite Posts: 118

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What's wrong with LBP using illusions? Hell, ALL games are an illusion. If you watch TV then you're just looking at a series of flat images made to trick your brain into perceiving a moving, 3D world.

2010-06-20 21:11:00 Author: Avatar_of_Chaos Posts: 48

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This is an interesting read.

2010-06-21 07:08:00 Author: agrx Posts: 192

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ITS NOT 3D! AND ITS NEVER GOING TO BE! i know u want 3d and changin the gravity towards background, but its not going to happen sorry :[ . llisten as much freedom as it gives you, its still has a certian style, if Mm handed evrything to us, it would be to easy and boring, and somthing incredible like a full-functioning 1st person shooter, wouldnt even make you raise an eyebrow. somtimes Mm dosent give us things its only common sense to give us cuz they want to challenge you to make it yourself. now stop complaining about what you dont have, and appreciate what u do have, Mm arent madicians and theres limits to how much a ps3 can handle, see the glass half full.

2010-06-21 07:37:00 Author: GSUSram Posts: 20

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