Archive: 37 posts

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Hullo, if anyone is really interested in the technic behind LBP give this interview (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-lbp2-tech-interview) a read. But be warned it may contain traces of technical language. Example: We discovered that SVN ['Apache Subversion', a development revision management system] has lots of O(N^2) algorithms in it, where N is the number of files in a given directory ? so that our check in/out times have been ballooning. (via Littlebigland (http://www.littlebigland.com/the-technic-behind-littlebigplanet-2/))

2010-06-12 13:02:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Even for those who aren't interested, this lighting comparison shows vast improvements: http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/1/2/6/9/1/6/digitalfoundry_gallery1_1.jpg.jpg http://images.eurogamer.net/assets/articles//a/1/1/2/6/9/1/6/digitalfoundry_gallery1_2.jpg.jpg

2010-06-12 13:18:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I wanna play! one of the QA guys here has actually rebuilt a working Pop-It using the direct control devices in LBP2. In other words, he managed to make a create-in-gameplay mode, from scratch, using direct control and emitters. The possibilities of meta-game creation like that are quite mind-boggling... Haha, that's such a brilliant waste of time, I love it Also note confirmation of actually editing LBP1 levels in LBP2 - I know a few people were concerned that it would just be a straight port, without the ability to edit (there was as thread somewhere I think).

2010-06-12 13:47:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I haven't understood everything but this is really interesting! I'm really looking for all those improvements, and I can't wait to see how our actual levels will look like in LBP2!

2010-06-12 14:07:00 Author: dajdaj03 Posts: 1486

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Warp drive potatoes!? I didnt understand a lot of that except the lightning explanations...

2010-06-12 14:43:00 Author: kiwin Posts: 218

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Thanks! I'll add this to the list! My favorite quote: "If you use LBP2 content, then you get even more good stuff - hairy materials, new transparent materials, animating textures, animating backgrounds, new lighting, and so on. So it's good for all!" Woohoo for confirmed hairy and transparent textures!

2010-06-12 15:19:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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Digital Foundry: So players will be able to import their old levels into LBP2 and improve them with all the new features you've added to the editor? Alex Evans: yes. Yesssssssssssssss.

2010-06-12 15:25:00 Author: nitewalker11 Posts: 222

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Wow, that interview goes on for FIVE four* PAGES and is brimmed with stuff I have never read before, not just technical info, concerning both LBP 1 & 2. Very good link, thx for sharing. <--- amazed, wants LBP2 NOW! * not as good in counting as I thought I was...

2010-06-12 18:39:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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Awwwww awsome! Hairy material!

2010-06-12 18:54:00 Author: Smelling-Cowboy Posts: 668

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That's a cool interview. Confusing, yet good! Haha

2010-06-12 19:00:00 Author: piggabling Posts: 2979

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Cool you dont have to go back to the pod when u play a series of levels! (but u knew that already didnt you)

2010-06-12 19:02:00 Author: Smelling-Cowboy Posts: 668

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And LBP2 even will have some new stickers, woahooh! Sorry.

2010-06-12 19:18:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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Still, I haven't read the interview, but Italian version of PS3mania says that the major updates in the graphic engine will be directed into Anti-Aliasing.

2010-06-12 20:01:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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One thing of interest is on the third page, regarding emitters: "Another example is that emitters used to have to take the 'worst case' view, since the analysis was static - but now we actually re-compute the thermometer cost as the level evolves." Awesome... as rtm would say, get out your big smashy rocks. It would now appear that you can enable/disable emitters on the fly, whilst destroying previous bits of the level when done with them. This is going to change the way we handle resources and thermometer management.

2010-06-12 20:04:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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One thing of interest is on the third page, regarding emitters: "Another example is that emitters used to have to take the 'worst case' view, since the analysis was static - but now we actually re-compute the thermometer cost as the level evolves." Awesome... as rtm would say, get out your big smashy rocks. It would now appear that you can enable/disable emitters on the fly, whilst destroying previous bits of the level when done with them. This is going to change the way we handle resources and thermometer management. Are you kidding? This fact coupled with (if true) the ability to make any material dissolve at will* we could build two- no, three levels in one! My pop-it, think of the possibilities! *As speculated earlier by LBPCentral

2010-06-12 20:18:00 Author: firstar Posts: 47

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Im curious how that will apply to existing levels with emitters....like when we open a level close to overheating on mymoon for the first time in LBP2's "mymoon", thermo goes only half the way up? That would be sooo cool... I'd set myself a goal of just trying to do things differently, for the sake of it, preferably in the spirit of minimal code, maximally simple algorithm, even if it becomes 'uniformly slow' as opposed to 'lots of weird corner cases where it will suddenly slow down in this odd configuration'. <---sighs, wishing other software designer would think and act that way, say like...microsoft ?! but one of the QA guys here has actually rebuilt a working Pop-It using the direct control devices in LBP2. In other words, he managed to make a create-in-gameplay mode, from scratch, using direct control and emitters. The possibilities of meta-game creation like that are quite mind-boggling... Indeed, mind blowing actually.

2010-06-12 20:27:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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One thing of interest is on the third page, regarding emitters: "Another example is that emitters used to have to take the 'worst case' view, since the analysis was static - but now we actually re-compute the thermometer cost as the level evolves." Awesome... as rtm would say, get out your big smashy rocks. It would now appear that you can enable/disable emitters on the fly, whilst destroying previous bits of the level when done with them. This is going to change the way we handle resources and thermometer management. It's cool, but I wouldn't get my hope as much high. That could mean that a good creator could make levels that can technically be endless, and I don't think it's the case. I don't think we would be able to spawn more than 1/4-1/3 more of stuff.

2010-06-12 22:04:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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That could mean that a good creator could make levels that can technically be endless, and I don't think it's the case. Why not acutally? I mean, generally, of course, there must be some precalculation of memory space or something and that probably must be finite, on the other side, stuff, that hasn't been emitted yet, won't influence lighting, physics or rendering, so.... much more freedom, right? Question I never thought: Does time actually run out in a LBP1 level? How long can you stay inside a level?

2010-06-12 22:17:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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The sign of a good tool is always when it is used in ways you didn't believe possible. The stuff more recently, like the use of the 50-layer 'bug' to create backgrounds, is just wonderful. Quite cool how they put thought into what we use.

2010-06-12 22:26:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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weeeeeeeee

2010-06-12 22:31:00 Author: BasketSnake Posts: 2391

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OAnother example is that emitters used to have to take the 'worst case' view, since the analysis was static - but now we actually re-compute the thermometer cost as the level evolves." Awesome... as rtm would say, get out your big smashy rocks. It would now appear that you can enable/disable emitters on the fly, whilst destroying previous bits of the level when done with them. This is going to change the way we handle resources and thermometer management. THis is bad news to me... if emitters don't take a worst case view, then they open the path to overheating during play mode *wink* *wink*. Thermo calculations on the fly are exceptionally dangerous to anyone but the most tech-savvy creator and whilst I think MM may have the best interests of the creators in mind with this, it's actually oging to cause more problems than it solves.

2010-06-12 23:27:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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@rtm: I know what you mean, but they are aware, right? I could imagine a realtime check in playmode for emitters, something like: "Before emitting an object, check wheater overheating can occur through (emitted object + current state of the level) and if yes, don't emitt."

2010-06-12 23:32:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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Yeah, but that is less intuitive than the current model, where emitters take into account all that is there + all that could be emitted. At the moment, how you might overheat in play mode is very limited, to the point that most people would never encounter it. That is a good thing. This update would make resource management far les clear cut and screw over many non-technical creators. I'm sure that I could work around it, but it worries me that the thermo might become a poor indicator of how the level works

2010-06-12 23:40:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I guess it really comes down to how efficient their thermo tweaks have been. I am a bit apprehensive myself, but I was trying to see the positives in it all.

2010-06-13 01:55:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I am a bit apprehensive myself, but I was trying to see the positives in it all. That's how I feel about it. Hence, I think for my level of ...professionalism in create (which I consider much lower than yours), it will only widen my possibilites. And pretty sure you guys gonna come up with incredible new ways and stuff that'll blow my mind over and over again, even if the old methods won't do much good anymore. Actually I'm quite currious.

2010-06-13 02:06:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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weeeeeeeee Indeed so, Basketsnake. Squuuuueeeeeeee!

2010-06-13 07:23:00 Author: FlipMeister Posts: 631

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Since we're on the subject on tech...a quick question without derailing completely...DID they ever fix the 160 hour bug?

2010-06-13 10:52:00 Author: BasketSnake Posts: 2391

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Yah, press pause.

2010-06-13 11:27:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Since we're on the subject on tech...a quick question without derailing completely...DID they ever fix the 160 hour bug? Nope. They no exactly what causes it, but it's not really fixable is the impression I have

2010-06-13 11:55:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Back to the topic at hand... I can see this being very useful if you can carefully plan out bits of your level so that you emit bits before you get there, and then destroy them when you've moved on. Sure it will an additional challenge, but as I understand it, they are further optimizing the way the thermometer is calculated. I guess we can only hope that said optimization allows us to actually do more than before. I supposed we will have to take levels like Subterranean Setbacks, Digitized Reality, or Interstellar Infiltration and try them out in LBP2 when the time comes (assuming that's even possible), to see if this actually benefits us.

2010-06-13 12:10:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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assuming that's even possible It is, or at least it should be - alex confirmed it in this very interview. Methinks someone is struggling to remember what we do know and what is just speculation

2010-06-13 12:19:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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SVN? I wonder that is the same type managment system I use when managing all the game files that I often end up acquiring for various games, I couldnt possibly organise them all manually, Tortoise SVN helped me loooaaads.

2010-06-13 13:10:00 Author: Xenon- Posts: 35

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Yeah tortoise is a front end client for SVN, which is just a revision control system. It's quite popular though because it's free

2010-06-13 13:20:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I don't understand anything anyone is saying in this thread! Yay for thickness!

2010-06-13 13:34:00 Author: KQuinn94Z Posts: 1758

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Its nice to be unique!

2010-06-13 14:11:00 Author: CYBERSNAKE Posts: 280

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HOLY BROWNIES & BUMPERCARS! THIS IS A TECH DREAM! MY MIND IS BEING BLOW EVERY LETTER I READ! LBP2 AT E3 FTW! (turns caps lock off)

2010-06-13 20:57:00 Author: acdramon Posts: 332

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The whole idea of throwing pasta on the wall, and whatever stuck, they shipped, just didn't appeal to me that well with the first game. I certainly hope they improved with the design in this next iteration of the game, seeing as they got help from outside sources.

2010-06-14 04:40:00 Author: DarkDedede Posts: 672

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