Archive: 43 posts

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I am... was an atheist. Then I found this and it TOTALLY blew my mind!! (I am now an agnostic) I think this is true after going through it all!! Sorry It's a bit long, But it's definitely worth the read!!!! The "account" of the situation: I met god the other day. I know what you’re thinking. How the hell did you know it was god? Well, I’ll explain as we go along, but basically he convinced me by having all, and I do mean ALL, the answers. Every question I flung at him he batted back with a plausible and satisfactory answer. In the end, it was easier to accept that he was god than otherwise. Which is odd, because I’m still an atheist and we even agree on that! It all started on the 8.20 back from Paddington. Got myself a nice window seat, no screaming brats or drunken hooligans within earshot. Not even a mobile phone in sight. Sat down, reading the paper and in he walks. What did he look like? Well not what you might have expected that’s for sure. He was about 30, wearing a pair of jeans and a "hobgoblin" tee shirt. Definitely casual. Looked like he could have been a social worker or perhaps a programmer like myself. ‘Anyone sitting here?’ he said. ‘Help yourself’ I replied. Sits down, relaxes, I ignore and back to the correspondence on genetic foods entering the food chain… Train pulls out and a few minutes later he speaks. ‘Can I ask you a question?’ Fighting to restrain my left eyebrow I replied ‘Yes’ in a tone which was intended to convey that I might not mind one question, and possibly a supplementary, but I really wasn’t in the mood for a conversation. .. ‘Why don’t you believe in god?’ The *******! I love this kind of conversation and can rabbit on for hours about the nonsense of theist beliefs. But I have to be in the mood! It's like when a jehova’s witness knocks on your door 20 minutes before you’re due to have a wisdom tooth pulled. Much as you'd really love to stay… You can’t even begin the fun. And I knew, if I gave my standard reply we’d still be arguing when we got to Cardiff. I just wasn’t in the mood. I needed to fend him off. But then I thought ‘Odd! How is this perfect stranger so obviously confident – and correct – about my atheism?’ If I’d been driving my car, it wouldn’t have been such a mystery. I’ve got the Darwin fish on the back of mine – the antidote to that twee christian fish you see all over. So anyone spotting that and understanding it would have been in a position to guess my beliefs. But I was on a train and not even wearing my Darwin "Evolve" tshirt that day. And ‘The Independent’ isn’t a registered flag for card carrying atheists, so what, I wondered, had given the game away. ‘What makes you so certain that I don’t?’ ‘Because’, he said, ‘ I am god – and you are not afraid of me’ You’ll have to take my word for it of course, but there are ways you can deliver a line like that – most of which would render the speaker a candidate for an institution, or at least prozac. Some of which could be construed as mildly amusing. Conveying it as "indifferent fact" is a difficult task but that’s exactly how it came across. Nothing in his tone or attitude struck me as even mildly out of place with that statement. He said it because he believed it and his rationality did not appear to be drug induced or the result of a mental breakdown. ‘And why should I believe that?’ ‘Well’ he said, ‘why don’t you ask me a few questions. Anything you like, and see if the answers satisfy your sceptical mind?’ This is going to be a short conversation after all, I thought. ‘Who am I?’ ‘Stottle. Harry Stottle, born August 10 1947, Bristol, England. Father Paul, Mother Mary. Educated Duke of Yorks Royal Military School 1960 67, Sandhurst and Oxford, PhD in Exobiology, failed rock singer, full time trade union activist for 10 years, latterly self employed computer programmer, web author and aspiring philosopher. Married to Michelle, American citizen, two children by a previous marriage. You’re returning home after what seems to have been a successful meeting with an investor interested in your proposed product tracking anti-forgery software and protocol and you ate a full english breakfast at the hotel this morning except that, as usual, you asked them to hold the revolting english sausages and give you some extra bacon. ‘ He paused ‘You’re not convinced. Hmmm… what would it take to convince you?’ 'oh right! Your most secret password and its association' A serious hacker might be able to obtain the password, but no one else and I mean NO ONE knows its association. He did. So how would you have played it? I threw a few more questions about relatively insignificant but unpublicised details of my life (like what my mother claims was the first word I ever spoke – apparently "armadillo"! (Don't ask…) but I was already pretty convinced. I knew there were only three possible explanations at this point. Possibility One was that I was dreaming or hallucinating. Nobody’s figured out a test for that so, at the time I think that was my dominant feeling. It did not feel real at the time. More like I was in a play. Acting my lines. Since the event, however, continuing detailed memories of it, together with my contemporaneous notes, remain available, so unless the hallucination has continued to this day, I am now inclined to reject the hallucination hypothesis. Which leaves two others. He could have been a true telepath. No documented evidence exists of anyone ever having such profound abilities to date but it was a possibility. It would have explained how he could know my best-kept secrets. The problem with that is that it doesn’t explain anything else! In particular it doesn’t account for the answers he proceeded to give to my later questions. As Sherlock Holmes says, when you’ve eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. Good empiricist, Sherlock. I was forced to accept at least the possibility that this man was who he claimed to be. So now what do you do? Well, I’ve always known that if I met god I would have a million questions for him, so I thought, ‘why not?’ and proceeded with what follows. You’ll have to allow a bit of licence in the detail of the conversation. This was, shall we say, a somewhat unusual occurrence, not to mention just a BIT weird! And yes I was a leetle bit nervous! So if I don’t get it word perfect don’t whinge! You’ll get the gist I promise. *********************************** ‘Forgive me if it takes me a little time to get up to speed here, but it's not everyday I get to question a deity’ ‘The Deity’ he interrupted. ‘ooh. Touchy!’ I thought. ‘Not really – just correcting the image’ Now That takes some getting used to! I tried to get a grip on my thoughts, with an internal command - ‘Discipline Harry. You’ve always wanted to be in a situation like this, now you’re actually in it, you mustn’t go to pieces and waste the opportunity of a lifetime’ ‘You won’t’ he said. Tell you! That’s the bit that made it feel unreal more than anything else - this guy sitting across the table and very obviously accurately reading my every thought. It's like finding someone else's hand inside your trouser pocket! Nevertheless, something made me inclined to accept the invasion, I had obviously begun to have some confidence in his perception or abilities, so I distinctly remember the effect of his words was that I suddenly felt deeply reassured and completely relaxed. As he had no doubt intended. Man must have an amazing seduction technique! So then we got down to business… ‘Are you human?’ ‘No’ ‘Were you, ever?’ ‘No, but similar, Yes’ ‘Ah, so you are a product of evolution?’ ‘Most certainly – mainly my own’ ‘and you evolved from a species like ours, dna based organisms or something equally viable?’ ‘Correct’ ‘so what, exactly, makes you god?’ ‘I did’ ‘Why?’ ‘Seemed like a good idea at the time’ ‘and your present powers, are they in any way similar to what the superstitious believers in my species attribute to you?’ ‘Close enough. ’ ‘So you created all this, just for us?’ ‘No. Of course not’ ‘But you did create the Universe?’ ‘This One. Yes’ ‘But not your own?’ ‘This is my own!’ ‘You know what I mean!’ ‘You can’t create your own parents, so No’ ‘So let me get this straight. You are an entirely natural phenomenon.’ ‘Entirely’ ‘Arising from mechanisms which we ourselves will one day understand and possibly even master?’ ‘subject to a quibble over who "we ourselves" may be, but yes’ ‘meaning that if the human race doesn’t come up to the mark, other species eventually will?’ ‘in one.’ ‘and how many other species are there already out there ahead of us?’ ‘surprisingly few. Less than fourteen million’ ‘FEW!?’ ‘Phew!’ ‘And how many at or about our level?’ ‘currently a little over 4 ? billion’ ‘so our significance in the universe at present is roughly equivalent to the significance of the average Joe here on planet Earth in his relation to the human race?’ ‘a little less. Level One, the level your species has reached, begins with the invention of the flying machine. I define the next level in terms your Sci Fi Author Isaac Asimov has already grasped. It is reached when you achieve control of your own primary – the Sun. What Asimov calls a Type I technology. Humanity is only just into the flying machine phase, so as you can imagine, on that scale, the human race is somewhat near the bottom of the level one pack’ ‘and all these species are your children?’ ‘I like to think of them that way’ ‘and the point?’ ‘at its simplest, "Life Must Go On". My personal motivation is the desire for conversation. Once you’ve achieved my level, you cease to be billions of separate entities and become one ecstatic whole. A single entity that cannot die, however advanced, or perhaps, more accurately, because it is so advanced, will get lonely and even a trifle bored! I seem to be the first. I do not intend to be the last’ ‘so you created a Universe which is potentially capable of producing another god like yourself?’ ‘The full benefit will be temporary, but like most orgasms, worth it.’ ‘this being the moment when our new god merges with you and we become one again?’ ‘don’t play it down, that’s the ecstatic vision driving us all, me included – and when it happens the ecstasy lasts several times longer than this universe has already existed. Believe me, it really is worth the effort.’ ‘Yes, I think I can see the attractions of a hundred billion year long orgasm’ ‘and humans haven’t even begun to know how to really enjoy the orgasms they are already capable of. Wait till you master that simple art!’ ‘So it's all about sex is it?’ ‘Ecstasy is merely a reward for procreating, it is what makes you want to do it. This is necessary, initially, to promote biological evolution. However once you’ve completed that stage and no longer require procreation, you will learn that ecstasy can be infinitely more intense than anything offered by sex’ ‘Sounds good to me!' 'How direct is your involvement in all this? Did you just light the fuse which set off the big bang and stand back and watch? Or did you have to plant the seeds on appropriately fertile planets?’ ‘The seeds evolved in deep space, purely as a result of the operations of the laws of physics and chemistry which your scientists have begun to attain a reasonable grasp of. Yes I triggered the bang and essentially became dormant for nearly 5 billion years. That’s how long it took the first lifeforms to emerge. That places them some 8 billion years ahead of you. The first intelligent species are now 4.3 billion years ahead of you. Really quite advanced. I can have deeply meaningful conversations with them. And usually do. In fact I am as we speak’ ‘So then what?’ ‘Do I keep a constant vigil over every move you make? Not in the kind of prying intrusive sense that some of you seem to think. Let's say I maintain an awareness of what's going on, at a planetary level. I tend only to focus on evolutionary leaps. See if they’re going in the right direction’ ‘And if they’re not?’ ‘Nothing. Usually’ ‘Usually?’ ‘Usually species evolving in the wrong direction kill themselves off or become extinct for other reasons’ ‘Usually?’ ‘There have been one or two cases where a wrong species has had the potential of becoming dominant at the expense of a more promising strain’ ‘Let me guess. Dinosaurs on this planet are an example. Too successful. Suppressed the development of mammals and were showing no signs of developing intelligence. So you engineered a little corrective action in the form of a suitably selected asteroid’ ‘Perceptive. Almost correct. They were showing signs of developing intelligence, even co-operation. Study your velocirapters. But far too predatory. Incapable of ever developing a "respect" for other life forms. It takes carrying your young to promote the development of emotional attachment to other animals. Earth reptiles aren’t built for that. The mammals who are, as you rightly say, couldn’t get a foothold against such mighty predators. You’ve now reached the stage where you could hold your own even against dinosaurs, but that’s only been true for about a thousand years, you wouldn’t have stood a chance 2 million years ago, so the dinosaurs had to go. They were, however, far too well balanced with the ecology of the planet, and never developed technology, so they weren’t going to kill themselves off in a hurry. Regrettably, I had to intervene.’ ‘Regrettably?’ ‘They were a beautiful and stunningly successful life form. One doesn’t destroy such things without a qualm.’ ‘But at that stage how could you know that a better prospect would arise from the ashes?’ ‘I didn’t. But the probability was quite high.’ ‘and since then, what other little tweaks have you been responsible for in our development?’ ‘None whatsoever. I set an alarm for the first sign of aerial activity, as I usually do. Leonardo looked promising for a while, but not until the Montgolfier brothers did I really begin to take an interest. That registered you as a level one intelligent species’ ‘So Jesus of Nazareth, Moses, Mohammed…’ ‘hmmm… sadly misguided I’m afraid. Anyone capable of communicating with their own cells will dimly perceive me – and all other life as being connected in a strictly quantum sense, but interpreting that vision as representing something supernatural and requiring obeisance is somewhat wide of the mark. And their followers are all a bit too obsessive and religious for my liking. It's no fun being worshipped once you stop being an adolescent teenager. Having said that, it's not at all unusual for developing species to go through that phase. Until they begin to grasp how much they too can shape their small corner of the universe, they are in understandable awe of an individual dimly but correctly perceived to be responsible for the creation of the whole of that universe. Eventually, if they are to have any hope of attaining level two, they must grow out of it and begin to accept their own power and potential. It's very akin to a child’s relationship with its parents. The awe and worship must disappear before the child can become an adult. Respect is not so bad as long as it's not overdone. And I certainly respect all those species who make it that far. It’s a hard slog. I know. I've been there.’ ‘You’ve been watching us since the Montgolfiers, when was that? 1650s?’ ‘Close. 1783’ ‘Well, if you’ve been watching us closely since then, what your average citizen is going to want to know is why you haven’t intervened more often. Why, if you have that sort of power, did you allow such incredible suffering and human misery?’ ‘It seems to be necessary.’ ‘NECESSARY??!!’ ‘Without exception, intelligent species who gain dominance over their planet do so by becoming the most efficient predators. There are many intelligent species who do not evolve to dominate their planet. Like your dolphins, they adapt perfectly to the environment rather than take your course, which is to manipulate the environment. Unfortunately for the dolphin, his is a dead end. He may outlive the human race but will never escape the bounds of planet earth - not without your help at any rate. Only those who can manipulate the world they live in can one day hope to leave it and spread their seed throughout the universe. Unlike the adaptors, who learn the point of cooperation fairly early on, manipulators battle on. And, once all lesser species have been overcome, they are so competitive and predatory that they are compelled to turn in on themselves. This nearly always evolves into tribal competition in one form or another and becomes more and more destructive - exactly like your own history. However this competition is vital to promote the leap from biological to technological evolution. You need an arms race in order to make progress. Your desire to dominate fuels a search for knowledge which the adaptors never require. And although your initial desire for knowledge is selfish and destructive, it begins the development of an intellectual self awareness, a form of higher consciousness, which never emerges in any other species. Not even while they are experiencing it, for example, can the intelligent adaptors - your dolphins - express the concepts of Love or Time. Militarisation and the development of weapons of mass destruction are your first serious test at level one. You're still not through that phase, though the signs are promising. There is no point whatsoever in my intervening to prevent your self-destruction. Your ability to survive these urges is a crucial test of your fitness to survive later stages. So I would not, never have and never will intervene to prevent a species from destroying itself. Most, in fact, do just that.’ ‘And what of pity for those have to live through this torment?’ ‘I can’t say this in any way that doesn’t sound callous, but how much time do you spend worrying about the ants you run over in your car? I know it sounds horrendous to you, but you have to see the bigger picture. At this stage in human development, you’re becoming interesting but not yet important.’ 'ah but I can't have an intelligent conversation with an ant' 'precisely' ‘hmm… as you know, humans won’t like even to attempt to grasp that perspective. How can you make it more palatable?’ ‘Why should I? You don’t appear to have any trouble grasping it. You’re by no means unique. And in any case, once they begin to understand what's in it for them, they’ll be somewhat less inclined to moan. Eternal life compensates for most things.’ ‘So what are we supposed to do in order to qualify for membership of the universal intelligentsia?’ ‘Evolve. Survive’ ‘Yes, but how?’ ‘Oh, I thought you might have got the point by now. "How" is entirely up to you. If I have to help, then you’re a failure. All I will say is this. You’ve already passed a major hurdle in learning to live with nuclear weapons. It's depressing how many fail at that stage.’ ‘Is there worse to come?’ ‘Much’ ‘Genetic warfare for instance? ‘Distinct Possibility’ ‘and the problem is… that we need to develop all these technologies, acquire all this dangerous knowledge in order to reach level two. But at any stage that knowledge could also cause our own destruction’ ‘If you think the dangers of genetic warfare are serious, imagine discovering a secret thought or program, accessible to any intelligent individual, which, if abused, will eliminate your species instantly. If your progress continues as is, then you can expect to discover that particular self-destruct mechanism in less than a thousand years. Your species has got to grow up considerably before you can afford to make that discovery. And if you don’t make it, you will never leave your Solar System and join the rest of the sapient species on level two.’ ’14 Million of them’ ‘Just under’ 'Will there be room for us?' 'it’s a big place' ‘and, for now, how should we mere mortals regard you then?’ ‘like an older brother or sister. Of course I know more than you do. Of course I’m more powerful than you. I’ve been alive longer. But I’m not "better" than you. Just more developed. Just what you might become’ ‘so we’re not obliged to "please" you or follow your alleged guidelines or anything like that?’ ‘absolutely not. Never issued a single guideline in the lifetime of this Universe. Have to find your own way out of the maze. And one early improvement is to stop expecting me - or anyone else - to come and help you out.' 'I suppose that is a guideline of sorts, so there goes the habit of a lifetime! ' 'Seriously though, species who hold on to religion past its sell-by date tend to be most likely to self destruct. They spend so much energy arguing about my true nature, and invest so much emotion in their wildly erroneous imagery that they end up killing each other over differences in definitions of something they clearly haven’t got a clue about. Ludicrous behaviour, but it does weed out the weaklings.’ ‘Why me? Why pick on an atheist of all people? Why are you telling me all this? And why Now?’ ‘Why You? Because can accept my existence without your ego caving in and grovelling like a naughty child. ' 'Can you seriously imagine how the Pope would react to the reality of my existence?! If he really understood how badly wrong he and his church have been, how much of the pain and suffering you mentioned earlier has been caused by his religion, I suspect he'd have an instant coronary! Or can you picture what it would be like if I appeared "live" simultaneously on half a dozen tele-evangelist propaganda shows. Pat Robertson would wet himself if he actually understood who he was talking to. Conversely, your interest is purely academic. You've never swallowed the fairy tale but you've remained open to the possibility of a more advanced life form which could acquire godlike powers. You’ve correctly guessed that godhood is the destiny of life. You have shown you can and do cope with the concept. It seemed reasonable to confirm your suspicions and let you do what you will with that information. You can and will publish this conversation on the web, where it will sow an important seed. Might take a couple of hundred years to germinate, but, eventually, it will germinate. Why Now? Well partly because both you and the web are ready now. But chiefly because the human race is reaching a critical phase. It goes back to what we were saying about the dangers of knowledge. Essentially your species is becoming aware of that danger. When that happens to any sapient species, the future can take three courses. Many are tempted to avoid the danger by avoiding the knowledge. Like the adaptors, they are doomed to extinction. Often pleasantly enough in the confines of their own planet until either their will to live expires or their primary turns red giant and snuffs them out. A large number go on blindly acquiring the knowledge and don't learn to restrain their abuse. Their fate is sealed somewhat more quickly of course, when Pandora’s box blows up in their faces. The only ones who reach level two are those who learn to accept and to live with their most dangerous knowledge. Each and every individual in such a species must eventually become capable of destroying their entire species at any time. Yet they must learn to control themselves to the degree that they can survive even such deadly insight. And frankly, they’re the only ones we really want to see leaving their solar systems. Species that haven’t achieved that maturity could not be allowed to infect the rest of the universe, but fortunately that has never required my intervention. The knowledge always does the trick’ 'Why can't there be a fourth option - selective research where we avoid investigating dangerous pathways?' 'As you can see from your own limited history, the most useful ideas are also, nearly always, the most dangerous. You have yet, for instance, to conquer fusion power but you need to do so in order to achieve appropriate energy surpluses required to complete this phase of your social development. It will, when you've mastered it, eliminate material inequalities and poverty within a generation or two, an absolutely vital step for any maturing species. Yet the discovery of the principles which will soon yield this beneficial bounty could, had you abused them, have ended your attempt at civilisation. Similarly, you will shortly be able to conquer biological diseases and even engineer yourselves to be virtually fault free. Your biological life spans will double or treble within the next hundred years and your digital lifespans will become potentially infinite within the same period: If you survive the potential threat that the same technology provides in the form of genetic timebombs, custom built viruses and the other wonders of genetic and digital warfare. You simply can't have the benefits without taking the risks'. ‘I’m not sure I understand my part in this exercise. I just publish this conversation on the web and everything will be alright?’ ‘Not necessarily. Not that easy I’m afraid. To start with, who’s going to take this seriously? It will just be seen as a mildly amusing work of fiction. In fact, your words and indeed most of your work will not be understood or appreciated until some much more advanced scholars develop the ideas you are struggling to express and explain them somewhat more competently. At which point the ideas will be taken up en masse and searches will be undertaken of the archives. They will find this work and be struck by its prescience. You won’t make the Einstein grade, but you might manage John the Baptist! This piece will have no significance whatsoever if humanity doesn’t make certain key advances in the next couple of centuries. And this won’t help you make those advances. What it will do is help you recognise them’ 'can I ask what those advances may be?' 'I think you know. But yes - although you are at level one, there are several distinct phases which evolving species pass through on their way to level two. The first, as we've discussed, is the invention of the flying machine. The next significant phase is the development of the thinking machine. At your present rate of progress, you are within a few decades of achieving that goal. It marks your first step on the path of technological evolution. Mapping the human genome is another classic landmark, but merely mapping it is a bit like viewing the compiled code in a dos executable. It's just meaningless gibberish, although with a bit of hacking here and there, you might correctly deduce the function of certain stretches of code. What you really need to do is 'reverse engineer' the dna code. You have to figure out the grammar and syntax of the language. Then you will begin the task of designing yourselves. But that task requires the thinking machine' ‘You say you avoid intervention. But doesn’t this conversation itself constitute intervention – even if people alive now completely ignore it?’ ‘Yes. But it's as far as I’m prepared to go. Its only effect is to confirm, if you find it, that you are on the right path. It is still entirely up to you to navigate the dangers on that path and beyond.’ 'But why bother even with that much? Surely it's just another evolutionary hurdle. We're either fit enough or not…' 'In many ways the transition to an information species is the most traumatic stage in evolution. Biological intelligences have a deeply rooted sense of consciousness only being conceivable from within an organic brain. Coming to terms with the realisation that you have created your successor, not just in the sense of mother and child, but in the collective sense of the species recognising it has become redundant, this paradigm shift is, for many species, a shift too far. They baulk at the challenge and run from this new knowledge. They fail and become extinct. Yet there is nothing fundamentally wrong with them - it is a failure of the imagination. I hope that if I can get across the concept that I am a product of just such evolution, it may give them the confidence to try. I have discussed this with the level two species and the consensus is that this tiny prod is capable of increasing the contenders for level two without letting through any damaging traits. It has been tried in 312 cases. The jury is still out on its real benefits although it has produced a 12% increase in biological species embracing the transition to information species. ‘Alright, so what if everyone suddenly took it seriously and believed every word I write? Wouldn’t that constitute a somewhat more drastic intervention?’ ‘Trust me. They wont’ 'and so it's still the case, that, should another asteroid happen to be heading our way, you will do nothing to impede it on our behalf?' 'I'm confident you will pass that test. And now my friend, the interview is over, you have asked me a number of the right questions, and I’ve said what I came to say, so I’ll be going now. It has been very nice to meet you - you're quite bright. For an ant!’ He twinkled. ‘Just one final, trivial question, why do you appear to me in the form of a thirty something white male?’ ‘have I in any way intimidated or threatened you?’ ‘No’ ‘Do you find me sexually attractive?’ ‘er No!’ ‘So figure it out for yourself…’

2010-06-11 19:05:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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riiiiight...

2010-06-11 19:17:00 Author: kiwin Posts: 218

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Oh, at least come up with your own stories and not one that has been copy&pasted all over the internet

2010-06-11 19:19:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Oh, at least come up with your own stories and not one that has been copy&pasted all over the internet It needs spreading around! -_-

2010-06-11 19:21:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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It's been spread for years! Go, read the Bible or any other holy book.

2010-06-11 19:22:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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It's been spread for years! Go, read the Bible or any other holy book. Slightly different info in there. Less specific and this one's more up to date!

2010-06-11 19:26:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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Slightly different info in there Heh, slightly? Quite different actually. You might have trouble joining a particular religion in fact. So, just make up your own and as you've just read there is no need to believe in a god.

2010-06-11 19:39:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Well, I now believe in god, But I'm not going to worship him - like he says. But thanks for taking the time to read it anyway

2010-06-11 19:40:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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Slightly different info in there. Less specific and this one's more up to date! Yes but the bible is actually based around things that happened, whereas the only event that this is based upon, if any, is "I spoke to a man on a train" "Does this thread actually have any point?", is the question I would ask this god of yours....

2010-06-11 19:40:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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There is more by the same author here (http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal). If you are interested.

2010-06-11 19:43:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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As an atheist, I find the first couple paragraphs nauseating. Can someone please summarize this, for me? tl;dr. The way I see it is, if God did indeed exist, and heaven and hell did exist, life would still be just as meaningless as without a god. Everything existing for its own sake

2010-06-11 19:45:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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That's where I got it It's the link I've sent to friends too... And no, there is no point to this thread, Other than sharing something rather interesting I've found on my favourite forum on the internet!

2010-06-11 19:46:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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Ironically that is pretty much the summary. Everything existing for its own sake

2010-06-11 19:48:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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As an atheist, I find the first couple paragraphs nauseating. Can someone please summarize this, for me? tl;dr. The way I see it is, if God did indeed exist, and heaven and hell did exist, life would still be just as meaningless as without a god. Everything existing for its own sake It get's more interesting by the way. And I still don't believe in heaven and hell. Or most of what christians tell us. But this seems to make sense to me, And I like things I can make sense of

2010-06-11 19:52:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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Well, I now believe in god, But I'm not going to worship him - like he says. Uh, sorry: You are saying you have not in the past but do now (honestly) believe there exists an almighty (or close to) and all knowing (or close to) being, that one could consider as god and actually met ... him...it...whatever in person, ... like touchable? Did I rephrase that correctly? What means you believe in him? Yes but the bible is actually based around things that happened [...] That's a way of putting it. People here believe that Bild (newspaper) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild) is based around things that happen. No offence :-)

2010-06-11 20:00:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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Ok. So. Right. Wow. Personally I have never come across this before, so, yeah. So the first thing you need to know here is that I am a very, very, very unreligious person. But I still read this, right here, right now. And I can never read anything without a break or anything, but I did. Maybe I'm completely and totally insane, but you know what? I don't care any more. Anyway, this part stood out to me: Since the event, however, continuing detailed memories of it, together with my contemporaneous notes, remain available, so unless the hallucination has continued to this day, I am now inclined to reject the hallucination hypothesis. It would be ridiculous to even try to explain any of the crazy thoughts that have been in my head recently, but that...is a little bit...relevant, I guess. I don't know. There was also this: Their fate is sealed somewhat more quickly of course, when Pandora?s box blows up in their faces. Pandora's box. That's something that has cropped up quite a lot recently, and all this talk of the universe has reminded me that the word 'starlight' has been around a lot too. I know everything I feel like saying would make NO SENSE to ANYONE AT ALL, unless, you know, you're God. Because, no, I'm not religious, but for the last 202 days there has been an overwhelming feeling that something very strange is going on, and/or someone is trying to tell me something. I need a lie down.

2010-06-11 20:05:00 Author: ARD Posts: 4291

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Eh...that was... not what I expected, think I gonna lay down too. I haven't really read your entire first post, but I probably will (so point for you). We talk later. Edit: Ouch, Ard and Daynedingsbums are two users... mixed up those avatar pics ("ROUND!!1"), so never mind, my answer would have made sense if Dayne would have answerd. So I tell @Ard: I didn't get what you wanted to say. Not even close. Maybe cause I'm no native speaker - but I need thoughts and sentences that pass into each other, sorry.

2010-06-11 20:18:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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I have to play that trick on someone. Its like youve given me a script to learn off by heart, I tell my friends all their secrets and get my friends dad to play god.

2010-06-11 20:29:00 Author: flamingemu Posts: 1872

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I believe that beliefs are for believers

2010-06-11 21:13:00 Author: flamingemu Posts: 1872

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You're walking thin ice Alex. Care to share some of your (maybe just ostensibly non)-pathetic beliefs? lol don't mind him dude, he's usually like that. @OP Should this not go in creative writting? Its a pretty good story, quite believeable to crtain point. The thing that bugged me the most is certain inconcistency tho: ...but it's not everyday I get to question a deity. "The Deity" he interrupted. He reffers himself as "The deity" aka the only one, yet later he says there are others like him and many can reach the "god-like" level. So..yeah, how can you be "The deity" if there are and can be so many more?

2010-06-11 21:19:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Good point of view and dealing with this upon it, Silver!

2010-06-11 21:37:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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That was awesome! Just like in the movies. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CDuRi7K2FVw/S4cmvRs5fbI/AAAAAAAAG9g/aa9rn3Ep3cs/s400/Spy+Kids+2+Island+of+Lost+Dreams+(2002).jpg Like this movie. The internet is nothing but truths! And Silverleon, it would probably go into creative writing had he wrote it. But, you know, he didn't and stuff. I do love a bit of misguided philosophical postulation, though. Great at parties.

2010-06-11 21:57:00 Author: monstahr Posts: 1361

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That seemed awfully like a conversation with CleverBot (http://www.cleverbot.com/). Well as much as I read anyway... Me thinks you (or whoever wrote this or whatever) needs to lay down on the alcohol...

2010-06-11 21:58:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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Alcohol? I think whoever wrote was hitting the jesus juice pretty hard. It kinda read like those silly creationism pamphlets that I pick up for giggles.

2010-06-11 22:06:00 Author: monstahr Posts: 1361

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the jesus juice pretty hard or the micheal jackson 'jungle juice' see thats what he gave to those kids before he raped them

2010-06-11 22:29:00 Author: flamingemu Posts: 1872

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I think this is real. But even if it isn't, It's something I can sort of believe in AND understand. More understandable than other religions etc. It's also very logical, so.. yeah

2010-06-11 22:43:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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@Dayne, would you answer my questions in the upper part of post #15? Not pushing just checking.

2010-06-11 22:53:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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My grandma has seen God. She was suppose to die and we were all sad but she said God came down when she was at her worst state of health and told her that she would be ok EDIT And she did live she is still living at 79 years old

2010-06-11 23:04:00 Author: Snrm Posts: 6419

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@Dayne, would you answer my questions in the upper part of post #15? Not pushing just checking. Yes, I think I do believe in God. But I'm still not entirely sure... I mean, I don't believe everything from christianity, just some aspects... Is that what you meant? I think I may have misunderstood your question slightly! (Sorry, It's getting late and my brain is getting slow!) @Snrm That's good news! The thing that bugged me the most is certain inconcistency tho: He reffers himself as "The deity" aka the only one, yet later he says there are others like him and many can reach the "god-like" level. So..yeah, how can you be "The deity" if there are and can be so many more? I think he means he's THE Deity of our universe. Unlike another universe that we would be incapable of perceiving

2010-06-11 23:41:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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The thing that bugged me the most is certain inconcistency tho: He reffers himself as "The deity" aka the only one, yet later he says there are others like him and many can reach the "god-like" level. So..yeah, how can you be "The deity" if there are and can be so many more? I think he means he's THE Deity of our universe. Unlike another universe that we would be incapable of perceiving

2010-06-11 23:52:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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or the micheal jackson 'jungle juice' see thats what he gave to those kids before he raped them juice is juice. wine in soda cans. pure class. i still don't get what's so believable about this.

2010-06-12 01:29:00 Author: monstahr Posts: 1361

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For an atheist being approached by God he sure as hell didn't ask any questions that matter about religion. The whole thing seemed to be about evolution and reaching Level 2 like wtf? I'm sorry but a computer programmer being talked to about levels, the universe isn't an RPG! I find it comical that thinking machine is next for the next power up. This God didn't mention one thing we don't already know. The guy could have at least asked for a location in the night sky, a constellation, a star where intelligent life exists so we can focus on it. Clearly God is well traveled so he must know one of his alarms for flying craft would have gone off I would have at least expected he implored Gods level lol

2010-06-12 01:43:00 Author: OneEyedBanshee Posts: 1370

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It was an interesting read, although I think these things are started to steer people away from God. The writer intended to plant doubt in believers.

2010-06-12 02:00:00 Author: TheCountessZ Posts: 537

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Woah, I'm Mormon (type of Christian), and I'm not a fan of this at all. Second, if he did see God, well, he would have died. Seriously.

2010-06-12 03:07:00 Author: JspOt Posts: 3607

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[...] if he did see God, well, he would have died. Seriously. Whut? Never heard that (though, I'm not Mormon) I mean, to me, any definition for god would include something close to almighty. If <insert your definition of god here> is not able to make his appearance (or sight) non-lethal to humans if <iydogh> chooses so, which I would presume, since there was conversation involved, which obviously could not have happend contrary to <iydogh>'s will...I'll see a serious problem with "almighty".

2010-06-12 06:21:00 Author: Xario Posts: 238

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i prefer douglas adams reasoning about god: Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful [the Babel fish] could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED" "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

2010-06-12 14:37:00 Author: kiwin Posts: 218

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i prefer douglas adams reasoning about god: XD I like that!! Made me lol! I'm not saying it's 100% true, But I do like the ideas, and I think It makes sense! I like things that make sense, especially philosiphical things that I can sort of follow! Doesn't hurt anyone to believe in God, but not worship him like most religions, does it? Well, True or not, It's a very interesting read - You have to give him that!!

2010-06-12 15:02:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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Wow, god is so condescending.

2010-06-12 16:12:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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hmmmmmm....

2010-06-16 22:35:00 Author: 767 Posts: 123

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Mapping the human genome is another classic landmark, but merely mapping it is a bit like viewing the compiled code in a dos executable. It's just meaningless gibberish, although with a bit of hacking here and there, you might correctly deduce the function of certain stretches of code. What you really need to do is 'reverse engineer' the dna code. You have to figure out the grammar and syntax of the language. Then you will begin the task of designing yourselves. But that task requires the thinking machine I do quite like the idea of a coder/hacker god.

2010-06-17 08:10:00 Author: resistance1 Posts: 812

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Even if things make sense, you still have to explore the possibility that they migt not be true. If you notice at the bottom of the linked page (the one that links to the original text) you'll see he has a text about resurrection as well! How convienient. Do you really think god spoke to him twice, or that he just makes this stuff up. You'll notice that he didn't directly answer the question of 'why me?' I mean, there are 4.6 billion people or something on the planet, so why shouldn't there be someone who is almost identical to this person. There must be hundreds of people with the same career, views, and non ego around Earth. As far as anyone knows, no one species can become one being amalgamated unless they physically join together. It jut doesn't make sense. In my view, this is a complete work of fiction, told from the point of view of someone, and not the author.

2010-06-17 15:48:00 Author: Richasackboy Posts: 619

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Could have just been randomly selected... And perhaps god chose an author because he could make a detailed / accurate account of the meeting? I am very well aware that this is unlikely, and that it could just be a work of fiction, but I'm willing to accept the ideas. Also, the Harry Stottle name sounds just like Aristotle, but this could be just down to his parents who named him because of that... Perhaps God didn't want everybody to believe it at once, so created a very unlikely situation... Guess we'll never know

2010-06-17 21:54:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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Please remember I'm still religious... *cough**Lakers won super happy**cough*

2010-06-18 09:37:00 Author: JspOt Posts: 3607

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