Archive: 15 posts

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Ok, so you all know the notched wheel tool from the logic pack? It gives 4 alternating outputs on a cycle system, right? Well, what I need is a similar tool that gives additional outputs (at least 8). Comphermc advised me to research incremental bolts, which I did....but I still don't understand it (there's too much theoretical debate and not enough practical instruction in the thread for me to do much with it). So, I'm wondering...does anyone have a ready made tool that they could kindly send to me? Or even give me some straight forward instructions so that I can create one myself?

2010-06-10 16:56:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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So, I'm wondering...does anyone have a ready made tool that they could kindly send to me? Or even give me some straight forward instructions so that I can create one myself? If you search for @tamland, there's a showcase level which has some examples given away as prize bubbles. Edit: Just noticed he has another level called "Talking Machine tech demo" which incorporates one of these devices, and it's also copyable, meaning you should be able to rip it apart to see how it works.

2010-06-10 18:13:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Why not use a notched wheel but with 8 arms instead of 4? Or am I misunderstanding the question? Just make a basic cross out of material, copy it, spin it round, and paste it.

2010-06-10 18:36:00 Author: theamilien Posts: 485

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Why not use a notched wheel but with 8 arms instead of 4? Or am I misunderstanding the question? Just make a basic cross out of material, copy it, spin it round, and paste it. Actually that's not a bad idea. Seems a simpler solution than incremental bolts. I'll give it a try. Edit: It didn't work. It destroyed the notched wheel tool.

2010-06-10 19:39:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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I have 3-output through 10-output optimized incremental bolts that you can capture in my level. (Well, except 7 because 360/7 has a remainder.) A motor bolt's speed is equivalent to the number of degrees it rotates in a decisecond. A six-output incremental bolt, for example, has a wheel with a motor bolt with a speed of 60, because 360/6 (6 outputs) = 60. The input to the motor bolt would be an on/off magnetic keyswitch that flips towards a key for a decisecond.

2010-06-10 20:03:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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I have 3-output through 10-output optimized incremental bolts that you can capture in my level. (Well, except 7 because 360/7 has a remainder.) A motor bolt's speed is equivalent to the number of degrees it rotates in a decisecond. A six-output incremental bolt, for example, has a wheel with a motor bolt with a speed of 60, because 360/6 (6 outputs) = 60. The input to the motor bolt would be an on/off magnetic keyswitch that flips towards a key for a decisecond. This is kinda off topic, but how do you have a three, four, and five-output bolt if a six output bolt moves at a speed of sixty?

2010-06-10 20:19:00 Author: Starchy Posts: 353

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This is kinda off topic, but how do you have a three, four, and five-output bolt if a six output bolt moves at a speed of sixty? Good question. I use two wheels stacked on top of each other with added sums of the speeds. It still works. P.S.: Woot! Ungreth's thanks got me my ninth bar!

2010-06-10 20:27:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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You can have the 3, 4, and 5 output incremental bolts take up less layers by emitting a 0.1 lifetime key instead of using a flipper piston (which activates the keyswitch for 0.05 seconds), just adjust the speed accordingly. This frees up the would-be extra layer to make the bolt bi-directional.

2010-06-10 20:51:00 Author: Unknown User

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You can have the 3, 4, and 5 output incremental bolts take up less layers by emitting a 0.1 lifetime key instead of using a flipper piston (which activates the keyswitch for 0.05 seconds), just adjust the speed accordingly. This frees up the would-be extra layer to make the bolt bi-directional. You could also use theck/thack layers or double-bolted thin gas/thin material.

2010-06-10 20:56:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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You can have the 3, 4, and 5 output incremental bolts take up less layers by emitting a 0.1 lifetime key instead of using a flipper piston (which activates the keyswitch for 0.05 seconds), just adjust the speed accordingly. This frees up the would-be extra layer to make the bolt bi-directional. A .1s flipper actually only triggers it for .0333s. I believe an emitter triggered by one shot does the same thing, but an emitter triggered by on/off gives you a .0667s pulse. My theory on this was that the one-shot switch eats up one of the .0333s clock cycles. There was a lengthy discussion on this a week or so ago here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=27802-Motor-Bolts-Speed...&p=487737). I pointed out that the math didn't work for a .1s pulse (since a motor bolt speed of 1 equals 5 rpms, a .1s pulse should give you 3 degrees of rotation), but it was pointed out to me that the pulses were actually only .0333, which is why you get exactly one third of the rotation that you actually ought to get in a .1s pulse. Comph had one that was giving him double the rotation that it ought to, which is what led me to theorize that the on/off setting, which is what he was using, made the difference and gave him 0.0667s pulses. Note that 0.03 and 0.06 are repeating, but I've rounded them to the nearest ten thousandths place.

2010-06-10 21:47:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Doesn't an emitter triggered by 1-shot do double, then occasionally screw up and do triple? I'm sure there was some discrepancy in the timings of 1-shot activated emitters, making them unsafe for precision timings. More to the point, I don't get how that would save you a layer? Anyways, I still prefer my dark matter blockers for stuff like this, especially unidirectional

2010-06-10 23:24:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I've finally sorted out the problem by taking Tamland's design and remaking it. I now have an 8-output rotation, exactly as I needed. Thanks to Aya for the tip on searching Tamland.

2010-06-10 23:39:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Doesn't an emitter triggered by 1-shot do double, then occasionally screw up and do triple? I'm sure there was some discrepancy in the timings of 1-shot activated emitters, making them unsafe for precision timings. More to the point, I don't get how that would save you a layer? Anyways, I still prefer my dark matter blockers for stuff like this, especially unidirectional It'd save a layer in Incinerator22's case by removing the need to stack bolts for increments lower than 6. But, if 1 shot emitters are unsafe, perhaps he has the better method.

2010-06-11 04:01:00 Author: Unknown User

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You don't need incremental bolts!! Just take the notched wheel tool, detach the motor bolt and in its place place a sprung bolt. Set its tightness to 10. Then move the block out of the way of the notches and rotate the notches by 45 degrees. Copy the notches only into the thin layer in front (detach the DM if necessary) then delete the sprung bolt on the copied notches. Copy and paste the boltless notches into the original contraption. Adjust the block accordingly and you're done!

2010-06-11 18:15:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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Just take the notched wheel tool, detach the motor bolt and in its place place a sprung bolt... I think he already tried that, but had problems. Besides, the incremental bolt is more reliable and more thermo-efficient.

2010-06-11 18:33:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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