Archive: 16 posts

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Hey everyone, I'm working on a boss for my level, and I want his attacks to speed up over time. His attacks are controlled by the swinging of his arm, which has two joints. One at his shoulder, and one at his elbow. The wobble bolts are set to a 4 second period each, and a 1 second delay. they work fine. Then, I tried to attach a mag switch up to the bolts that is set to speed. Every time he takes a hit, the key would move closer to the switch, and his attack should speed up... at least, that's what's supposed to happen. Instead, at the lower speeds everything goes wonky. his arm starts bending oddly, things get out of sync, and the bolts jerk around like they're being turned on and off rapidly. I've played with their settings and with the settings of the mag switch but nothing is really helping... Ive been able to do this in the past using pistons, so I've got no idea why it won't work for the bolts. I tried building his arm using pistons and regular bolts, but that didn't turn out so well... Any ideas?

2010-06-02 09:20:00 Author: Duffluc Posts: 402

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Instead, at the lower speeds everything goes wonky. his arm starts bending oddly, things get out of sync, and the bolts jerk around like they're being turned on and off rapidly. Symptoms sound similar to the 160-hour bug, but it could be as simple as the speed switch affecting the cycle time but not the pause time.

2010-06-02 15:37:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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oh boy, I sure hope you're wrong Aya Never thought it might be the 160 hour bug. I've tried taking away the pause time. It didn't help. I'll copy the boss to a new level and see if he works there.

2010-06-02 16:50:00 Author: Duffluc Posts: 402

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I'll copy the boss to a new level and see if he works there. Another way to tell if your level has the bug is by just adding a 0.1s piston somewhere, and if it doesn't appear to move, then you have the bug.

2010-06-02 17:02:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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The good news is it isn't terribly hard to recover from the 160 hour glitch if that is what the issue is. In most cases you can pretty much capture the whole level and plop it in a new one. Sometimes a few bits need to be repaired or capture separately. You might ask a buddy to help spot for you to insure you have your capture square large enough as well as help you position it in the new level. Good luck!

2010-06-02 17:39:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Symptoms sound similar to the 160-hour bug, but it could be as simple as the speed switch affecting the cycle time but not the pause time. I respectfully disagree. The mass and speed of a connector affect its strength and therefore its ability to move. If you've got an off-balanced load (a swinging arm for example), it may work fine on a four second cycle, but it may strain on a 10 second cycle. When it strains, it'll usually kind of bog down and have trouble moving with occasional jerks (starts and stops). Sounds to me like that's what you're running into. If that is the case (meaning you've ruled out the 160 hour bug), then to fix it, you're going to need to reduce the strain on the wobble bolts. Often, it's as simple as changing a lighter material to a heavier one (if you've got a metal arm bolted to a cardboard body, consider making the body metal as well), but you may also want to balance the weight of the arms: if all the weight is at the bottom, it may struggle to lift it, but if there's equal or near equal weight above the wobble bolt, it'll have a much easier time moving it. If you want to test my theory to find out if that's really what your problem is, first get rid of the speed setting, then turn up the time on the wobble bolts so that they move much slower and see if you get the same problem. If so, then my theory is most likely correct and the slow times are indeed the cause of your problem.

2010-06-02 23:57:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I respectfully disagree. The mass and speed of a connector affect its strength and therefore its ability to move. If you've got an off-balanced load (a swinging arm for example), it may work fine on a four second cycle, but it may strain on a 10 second cycle. When it strains, it'll usually kind of bog down and have trouble moving with occasional jerks (starts and stops). I respectfully disagree. Actually, there was a slight oddity with my diagnosis which was when the OP said "...at the lower speeds everything goes wonky...", I assumed he actually meant "...at higher speeds..." or "...at a lower cycle time...", which would tie in with the thread title, BICBW. I'm still not convinced that the speed of the connector affects its strength in any practical* sense, but if you have an example to the contrary, I'd be interested to see it. * Clearly it does in a theoretical sense. If you vary only the connector speed, then as the speed increases, so does its acceleration, but if the mass is constant, and assuming F=ma, then the force must increase.

2010-06-03 00:29:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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The jointed arms for the CyberFox boss were entirely made of wood, and the bolts were relatively slow. See if that helps man.

2010-06-03 01:48:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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My bwain hurts :-S How do you know all this stuff? Do you have like, one of those lbp2 microchips implanted in your brain? (If so, where can I get mine??)

2010-06-03 02:01:00 Author: Weretigr Posts: 2105

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I'm still not convinced that the speed of the connector affects its strength in any practical* sense, but if you have an example to the contrary, I'd be interested to see it. Here's Ziaholic's experiment on piston forces (http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/t5/PS3-Workshop/Advanced-Topics-Piston-Forces/m-p/37573?view=by_date_ascending#M7785). I don't know if he was the first to make the discovery that pistons' strength (and by extension, all connectors' strength) was based on the mass of the objects connected as well as their duration, but his thread is where I learned it.

2010-06-03 03:28:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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okay... let me get this clear first, so whats happening is when you alter the speed it goes wacky? like what it doesnt work properly? lets see if this helps ---------------------------------------------------what i think happened----------------------------------------------------- im working on a robot where i want it to run, so i hooked up 1 leg by itself to this speed logic i put together, but when it got faster it went out of sync, where the knee wasnt bending too soon and the foot flopped everywhere. is that similar? --------------------------------------------------------------solution, briefed and shorted at the bottom------------------------ if you want his arm to speed up, try this, (what i did to my mech and it worked) make the boss actually have the bolts default at the speed you want it to be at the end. like, the fastest you want it to go upto, make that the default then make an AND switch (this depends on the amount of times you want the speed to change) so its the dark matter with the key at the top, and several blocks and pistons, make each piston connected by an on/off switch, so and a timed switch where every while it goes off. this is what should happen. every time the timed switch passes a key, a different on/off will trigger, triggering the pistons of the AND switch, EXTENDING the AND closer and closer to the key. this will start it off slow and gradually get faster as the timed switch (or make it a health bar) hits more keys. get it? =)

2010-06-03 03:35:00 Author: johnrulz77 Posts: 835

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Next time you're online invite me in and I'll have an oogle over it, see if I can help y'out at all.

2010-06-03 13:23:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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Thanks for the tips all. Sorry about the delayed response, I've been away. It does indeed look like it's the 160 hour glitch. If I place a new pistons set to a speed of .1 it won't work. old ones seem to be alright though... The level is so close to done too lol. I also tried as you said, sehven, and reduced the speed of the bolts without anything attached to them. It worked fine. The entire arm is made out of thin dissolve material, so weight shouldn't really be an issue. The first version of this boss that I built, the arm basically had a giant weight at the end of it which he used as a weapon. The arm didn't work at all lol, so I had dealt with a weight issue earlier and was aware that that could be the problem as well. I tried the building the lightest possible arm I could to test your theory and it still doesn't seem to work. thanks for the suggestion though. I guess I better get started on salvaging the level

2010-06-04 04:01:00 Author: Duffluc Posts: 402

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Ugh! Sorry to hear that. Hope the salvage isn't too problematic for you. ..................I guess that's what I get for disagreeing with Aya.

2010-06-04 04:23:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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It does indeed look like it's the 160 hour glitch. If I place a new pistons set to a speed of .1 it won't work. old ones seem to be alright though... The level is so close to done too lol. Thought it might be, which is a shame, especially considering how close you are to finishing, although I'm somewhat surprised that the existing pistons seem to run fine. Check out the thread 160 Hour Bug Recovery (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=24887-160-Hour-Bug-Recovery) for some tips on how to sort it out. As long as your PS3 doesn't crash when capturing the entire level (which can happen), it's not too painful to fix. It's certainly worth making a full profile backup before you attempt this, just in case it does crash. There's another post (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=23971-Thin-or-theck-gas&p=416799#post416799) you might be interested in, which explains what's known (and speculated) about the bug, because this is one which MM have admitted the existence of. Good luck.

2010-06-04 18:58:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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I've heard a lot of horror stories involving the bug, and I'm sure its not exactly the something one wants to see happen to their level lol. But I guess I got lucky, transferring the level went smoothly, and although a couple of things acted up after it only took about 20 minutes to get the whole thing running smooth again. Thanks again for the tips

2010-06-05 05:41:00 Author: Duffluc Posts: 402

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